Recently, I had read that CSS is a method to build sites without using HTML Tables .. (this is what I had read)
After That, I learned some CSS but what I know makes it only an assisting method to use tables in HTML .. (Like in PHPBB Forum main theme)
Help Me Understanding this :
Is CSS a a replacement ot an assisting method for HTML Tables ??
Both.
CSS is for styling, so you could simply add styles to a table with CSS. But, a true CSS LAYOUT would use <div> instead of tables and use CSS positioning to make a layout. CSS is not a way to replace tables that are used "correctly", but to replace table-based layouts.
I hope that makes sense
You mean a cSS layout will not have a main table to contain all the page content and will have a DIV tag instead ..If so : Does this give the same (or better) result as tables ?
OK Thanks for all You made me understand this ..
Tables are organisational tools that are supposed to only be used for organising data. You may use CSS floats or CSS absolute positioning to organize and position content (div's, span's, p's, the like) on a page, which is a method that is slowly being accepted by webmasters and browsers around the world. CSS has a lot of advantages over tables. Tables may limit the way you design websites, resulting in clunky results with tons of spacer gif's, non-sensical jumbles of code, and bad designs. Using CSS seperates content from design. It allows you to design for structure, not style. CSS broadens your code's support, allowing it to be viewed by many browsers on different operating systems, on different resolutions, and hold out better than table-based designs. Using CSS can also drastically reduce the file size of your files, and make webpages load faster. Are you convinced now?
A good place to start learning CSS, and where I first learned CSS, is at http://www.w3schools.com . I would first make sure your HTML skills are extremely solid, if not extordinary, and that you've at least heard of XHTML. Those are not perhaps extremely nessessary skills, but it will help the ease into CSS, and those skills are nessessary to make standards based code. 
If you already know (X)HTML and CSS, check out http://www.csszengarden , or http://www.cssbeauty.com , as they have good examples of designs that were made without tables.
And remember, if you have any troubles with CSS, run your code through the W3 code validator first before making a big deal about it. 
| MM357 wrote: |
| Does this give the same (or better) result as tables ? |
As riv explained : better.
You can read this presentation if you're not convinced 
Riv is correct.
The move is towards tableless designs. At first it sounds pretty impossible to put and format data using only tables. But believe it or not, css has shown and sooner or later everybody is going to go that way.
Avoid tables for layout.
Avoid centering your page with tables or expanding the page to fit the user's screen with tables. Also avoid tables when you could efficiently use floats instead. When separating your page into block-like sections, use divs instead of tables.
You are encouraged to use tables to display tabular data
Example tabular data:
| Code: |
<table class="tabledatatype">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>User id</th><th>User name</th>
</tr>
<tr class="darkrow">
<td>50323</td><td>Scripter</td>
</tr>
<tr class="lightrow">
<td>33687</td><td>bathurst_guy</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
|
Thanx guys got some kool links about CSS here.
Also try XHTML CSS templates from opendesign.com or oswd.org. One can see and edit css files forming these templates. Could be a great way of learning.
Whereas i completely agree with riv on the usefulness of CSS and the rubbishness of tables, i must say he makes CSS sound WAY more difficult than it actually is.
The fact is that CSS is pure english. It is SO easy that i mastered it by viewing the source of a random page and looking how a couple of things where done. From there on i've used the HTML reference doc from w3c, which lists everything which can be done using CSS.
There is no need to "master" HTML first - i taugh my brother 14 year old brother HTML and CSS at once in a couple of hours (it really is that easy).
In fact, to good knowledge of HTML is a handicap IMO - it will be harder for you to get away from using HTML attributes and <font> tags etc. like you should with CSS.
As for XHTML - that IS HTML + CSS (and a few other interesting things) so no need to worry about that - you will figure that automatically | LukeakaDanish wrote: |
As for XHTML - that IS HTML + CSS (and a few other interesting things) so no need to worry about that - you will figure that automatically |
Nope - XHTML is a html document whitch contain only content +divs , <a> <p> <h> <img> and tables for tabular data if needed, and maybe few tags more (no formating, colors, atributes, size etc) - You formating it whit CSS whitch is diffrent thing | b4r4t wrote: |
| LukeakaDanish wrote: |
As for XHTML - that IS HTML + CSS (and a few other interesting things) so no need to worry about that - you will figure that automatically |
Nope - XHTML is a html document whitch contain only content +divs , <a> <p> <h> <img> and tables for tabular data if needed, and maybe few tags more (no formating, colors, atributes, size etc) - You formating it whit CSS whitch is diffrent thing |
You are actually agreeing with me there mate
XHTML = HTML + CSS - obsolete HTML tags + new closing tags + no CAPS for tag names + required <img> alt atribute
happy now ?
XHTML will be XHTML even without CSS style sheet , but OK We may agree The mos important thing is clear HTML Code with no formating +CSS or no CSS - doesn't mather Well ok...but it would be ****** ing (i know that bit will get get sencored but wtf) hard to make a page without any HTML attributes or CSS ...thats practically only google.com which could be made in that way (though im pretty certain it isnt) 
I was merely saying that it would be much simipler to figure out bugs in the code if you've mastered (X)HTML. Plus, the webpages would only look professional if you have mastered (X)HTML and CSS. I mean someone who just learned (X)HTML and CSS in a couple of hours wouldn't be able to code decent looking webpages.
| riv wrote: |
| I was merely saying that it would be much simipler to figure out bugs in the code if you've mastered (X)HTML. Plus, the webpages would only look professional if you have mastered (X)HTML and CSS. I mean someone who just learned (X)HTML and CSS in a couple of hours wouldn't be able to code decent looking webpages. |
No but yes!.
Of course you will know nothing near everything there is to know about (x)HTML after only a couple of hours. And of course this WILL hinder your design capabilities. HOWEVER if your good with photoshop or the GIMP and have a good sence of what looks pro, you can still do a nice looking page with very limited knowledge of anything I started redoing my site using <div> tags instead of a table, but I soon found that everything only aligned properly in IE. In Firefox, everything was a mess. I haven't been able to get it to work correctly in both, so I have layed everything out with one table. Once I get the site done, I will go back and try to get it laid out properly in CSS. But until then, I have given up trying.
GET RID OF TABLES!! Css does everything imo make a site standard compliant using the W3 checker and make sure its CSS, why? css is fast, dynamic and easy to work with, replace those tables GO CSS!
There is a problem with changeing to css, people switch to a css design from a table and want it too behave the same, instead of useing css to is full potentinal.
What you can do with css is amazing. Have a look at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ he tries to push css to the very limet.
eday2010 I would advise you to write you site in Opera/FireFox and then tweak it for IE. They are closer to the standars than IE is (an under statment).
As said before css can help produce very small sized pages (bit wise). My home page (http://testo.mozdev.org) is under 2KB. Replacing all tables with CSS can be a bit hard, but it's possible. Internet Explorer doesn't display your pages correctly, especially not if you're using float and relative width. Especially version 6 and below.
Create your site for opera/firefox/konqueror/epiphany and then tweak it for internet explorer. This will really make it easier to design...
And it doesn't mean you can't use tables, but only use them to display data, or maybe, if there is really no other way, for a menu. Certainly not for the whole site....
Greetz, Arno
Actually, XHTML is a hybrid of HTML and XML. Anyhow...
So let's say I go back and make my layout using CSS, and I get it working in Firefox. How do I tweak it for IE without it screwing up in Firefox again? I had two problems wit hFirefox: either the layout was totally screwed up where it didn't seem to obey the floats and such. And the other problem was that when it did layout correctly, there were gaps between some of the divs that should not have been there.
But like I said, I am redoing it with a table right now. Once it's done and up, I will make it CSS. I am more concerned about getting it done and up than whether it's coded sexily or not with CSS. That comes later . At the same time I can get rid of the iframe that holds the content of the page and use AJAX instead...maybe. The iframe is super simple, so I might keep it.
