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A 4.1 GHz Dual Core at $130 - Can it be True?





afracsass
it's the title of an article posted at tomshardware.com.
If you are interested in overclocking, it's worth reading this one.

click link below.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/
Rsam
Need to be lucky to get such a good overclock not to mention the proper ram and motherboard.
psycosquirrel
Very interesting.

While the overclocks obtained are OUTSTANDING, you must keep in mind they used watercooling and probably extremely high end RAM. I

Also, it is a pentium. This means a HIGH multiplier combined with low FSB. This low FSB/ high multiplier combo bloats the frequency, making the 4.1Ghz seem much more outstanding than it really is. The fsb is around 133 stock, where the fsb on the old P4 I am on now is 533. Therefore, it is amazing to overclock with. I will be looking into this more...


Mainly though, I am curious if anyone has been able to do this as easily as it seems to be. Something like this almost seems to be too good to be true, and seems like it should have a catch. In case many of you do not know, the Opteron 146 at first was around $120, then overclockers saw its potential and prices SKYROCKED to over $200. If this cpu was really as good as it seems, wouldn't this happen to it too?

----------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:

HAHA I FOUND THE CATCH!

This processor uses over 260 watts IDLING at those speeds Shocked While in theory, this seems okay, not many power supplies will keep up with the beastly overclock speeds. Not to mention the enormous addition to your power bill from the additional wattage (Running full out usage, the proc will probably use over 400watts alone) will cost you HUNDREDS more in the long run.

So while this seems nice and all, it is really a bad idea. Think about it; you will have to be willing to drop at least another $150 for an awesome PSU, an additional $50 at least for a mobo that allows clock speeds this high, and then the fricking high-end watercooling ($300+) AND the additional power usage (at least an additional $100 a year) will run you way over the cost of getting an AMD FX series processor, which actually got more average frames than this superclocked monster.

My new conclusion is this processor overclock is unfeasable for use in the normal world of enthusiasts, and would actually cost you more in the long run than the highest end ($1000+) processors from BOTH companies. Also, you CANNOT argue with statistics, and the 4800+ hit higher average FPS than the overclocked thing, and the 4800+ was running entirely stock. If you were to superclock the 4800+ like the other proc, there would be no competition here.
TheGeek
dude dave, please read specs before posting man.

Intel Pentium D 805:

Brand: Intel
Series: Pentium D
Model: BX80551PE2666FN
CPU Socket Type: LGA 775
Core: Smithfield
Multi-Core: Dual-Core
Name: Pentium D 805
Operating Frequency: 2.66GHz
FSB: 533MHz
L1 Cache: 24KB+32KB
L2 Cache: 2 x 1MB
Process Type: 90 nm
Hyper-Threading Support: No
64 bit Support: Yes
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
Voltage: 1.25-1.4V

(Spec sheet curtisy of newegg.com)

the FSB is 533 and it has a 2x1mb L2 cache...this cpu rapes yours and even if the clock speeds are bloated, and even if you can only get it to like...3.5Ghz, for 128 dollars on the egg thats not bad, and the fact that Intel motherboards have better support as far as suppliers go, im gunna have to say for that new machine i was talking to you about over lunch today i may just have to go with this one, i have a friend who will sell me his brand new lga 775 motherboard from ASUS for 100 bucks, which is 50 bucks less than he paid for it off of egg.

Personally i hope this works, like i really hope it works, because 4.1Ghz would be amazing

-------------------------------------------

::EDIT::

ok so after reading daves edit, lol, i guess its still a coin toss on which processor i end up with, though the fact that the intel mobo can support BOTH ddr and ddr2 along with PCI-E x16 and 3 pci slots...you cant really get better than that, the RAM support alone would get me, thats over 6GB of RAM support, not all at once, but still, and it has onboard RAID, i dare to try and find an AMD board that has support for 2 kinds of RAM built in along with RAID support for around 100 bucks...if at all.

WOW i cant believe im sorta somewhat sticking up for Intel...this is a first.
afracsass
Actually, i myself put together a new desktop using this pentium d 805 processor.
I tried to push the performance similar to those used in the tom's hardware experiment. but, i was'nt so succesful.
I bought a mobo that has 945p chipset from Epox. looks like this mobo is not very good for overclocking 805 processor.
I could run the processor as fast as 2.9GHz with 150x4= 600Mz FSB data rate. I bought OCZ DDR2 667 1GB(2x512MB) for the system.
I hoped the system could run upto 3.2GHz with 160x4 = 640MHz since the memory spec is way beyond this frequency. but i couldn't get it run above 2.9GHz. I can't figure out clearly what's limiting the overclocking. But i'm guessing that there were several alternatives i'd have taken for succeful overclocking.

As in the experiment, 955x chipset mobo would have been better and ASUS board provides lots of features to enjoy. It might have cost me about $50 bucks more.

Whatever, i'm satisfied with my system now which is running at 2.8GHz with almost no extra cost anyway. Very Happy
full load temerature is less than 40c degree and no voltage adjustment was needed.

If anyone is to buy this cute processor, think about investing $50 bucks more to nice mobo for overclocking.
TheGeek
yea you would deffinatly be better of with a better mobo, Epox is notoriously not a overclock happy mobo brand. If i were you either go with an Asus or Gigabyte board, and if you must MSI is sometimes cheaper but may not overclock as well.

i priced out my upgrades for doing this system and im getting a board from a friend which is some gigabyte board...i dont remember exactly which one, but it has the ddr and ddr2 support and the 805 chip with a 7600GT and ill need to up my psu so ill probably get one of the 600 or 700 watt ones, hope this works...otherwise im gunna be playing hot potatoe with motherboards till it does.

o and btw dave as an edit to my last post/proof of what i said this morning in the librar "stable operation was possible at 4.1 GHz, and without even the need for substantial boosts to cooling!"
psycosquirrel
A "substancial boost to cooling" would be defined as a specialized cooling system. Watercooling is EXTREMELY common, and by no means rare to find with overclockers.

Now you say I am wrong in your first post. Well, I am right. Allow me to quote from Tom's Hardware: (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page5.html)


Quote:
133 MHz FSB: Perfect For Overclocking


Quote:
Our overclocking project with the Pentium D 805 starts with a front side bus speed of 133 MHz (533 QDR).


533 is the QDR, essentially the effective bus speed that the mobo recieves. This has NOTHING to do with calculating the operating frequency, because if it did, then the frequency would be 533 (CLAIMED fsb) * 20 (multiplier on this cpu) = 10660MHz, or 10.66Ghz. You are wrong, but I already explained this to you in school, so no hard feelings over this thing. (Any CPU rapes my old P4 any day of the week, I did not mean to make it sound like my P4 was good at all...)


Now, about the cooling, they used the huge top of the line zalman: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118223
At around 4.0Ghz, they note (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page24.html) that the heatsink cannot take the heat and the CPU automatically drops its operating frequency. For this to happen, you would be running at temperatures SIGNIFIGANTLY over normal operating temperatures. Therefore, it will not last for long. A processor should run at around 40 degrees celcius, with 50 being the absolute max. For a processor to throttle itself down -- with no user input on the matter-- it would have to be running massively hot, probably in the 80s or higher. Lets also keep in mind they get the voltage over 1.7 in their testing. Arcing over the 90nm core would probably kill a processor in a month or probably less.


Now you see why my conclusion is completely valid. Newegg's spec sheet is not wrong, but is misleading because the bus speed the motherboard sees is not the same thing as the FSB on the chip (think AMD with the dual rates from FSB to bus speed). Using a chip overclocked this much is stupid, even with watercooling. It is stupid to use outside benchmarking or record-setting. In either of these cases, a user would probably have a higher budget and not even need to bother with this core. I mean, if this thing superclocked gets just a little fewer average fps than a 4800, then imagine what you could do with a 4800 or the Opty equivalent. As I said before, this core is good, but NOWHERE near as good as claimed or implied in that article.
TheGeek
Well, thank you for the information, you cleared things up far better here than you did in school. However, im still going with it for my machine, even if i can only run it around maybe 3Ghz, its still better and will totally and utterly rape my current P4 in any condition.
psycosquirrel
Of course Very Happy

It is still a good deal, but the clocks that they are claiming is simply absurd. I am sure you will get it over 3Ghz on stock. Not to mention the dual core Very Happy
exarkun
Overclocking this much might be taxing on the computer, and I really don't recommend doing this. ;p
TheGeek
recommend...manufacturers recommend you dont work on your computers, overclocking may be bad for the CPU but as long as you dont keep it on 24/7 and you dont overclock it unreasonably high, it is hardly the worst thing you can do to your computer.
psycosquirrel
But it drastically decreases the life of components and voids the warantee (if they find out about it).

Actually, I compare it to smoking. It is slow suicide for a bit more enjoyment out of life (of the computer, that is).
thuganomics
The topic name caught my eye, but reading through the review and stuff, you just have to have luck to achieve that super high CPU speed =\
TheGeek
i like psyco's comparison. It is like smoking, except, you dont really enjoy life more if you smoke...then again i wouldnt know cuz i do neither...yet. (i dont plan on smoking, i enjoy my lunges, and processors are cheaper to replace.)

Also, the advantage of it being only 130 bucks now is that by the time it does die from the stress it will all the cheaper.
psycosquirrel
Laughing That is true, but at those kind of temps, you will probably fry your mobo too...
airek
psycosquirrel wrote:
A "substancial boost to cooling" would be defined as a specialized cooling system. Watercooling is EXTREMELY common, and by no means rare to find with overclockers.

Now you say I am wrong in your first post. Well, I am right. Allow me to quote from Tom's Hardware: (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page5.html)


Quote:
133 MHz FSB: Perfect For Overclocking


Quote:
Our overclocking project with the Pentium D 805 starts with a front side bus speed of 133 MHz (533 QDR).


533 is the QDR, essentially the effective bus speed that the mobo recieves. This has NOTHING to do with calculating the operating frequency, because if it did, then the frequency would be 533 (CLAIMED fsb) * 20 (multiplier on this cpu) = 10660MHz, or 10.66Ghz. You are wrong, but I already explained this to you in school, so no hard feelings over this thing. (Any CPU rapes my old P4 any day of the week, I did not mean to make it sound like my P4 was good at all...)


Now, about the cooling, they used the huge top of the line zalman: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118223
At around 4.0Ghz, they note (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page24.html) that the heatsink cannot take the heat and the CPU automatically drops its operating frequency. For this to happen, you would be running at temperatures SIGNIFIGANTLY over normal operating temperatures. Therefore, it will not last for long. A processor should run at around 40 degrees celcius, with 50 being the absolute max. For a processor to throttle itself down -- with no user input on the matter-- it would have to be running massively hot, probably in the 80s or higher. Lets also keep in mind they get the voltage over 1.7 in their testing. Arcing over the 90nm core would probably kill a processor in a month or probably less.


Now you see why my conclusion is completely valid. Newegg's spec sheet is not wrong, but is misleading because the bus speed the motherboard sees is not the same thing as the FSB on the chip (think AMD with the dual rates from FSB to bus speed). Using a chip overclocked this much is stupid, even with watercooling. It is stupid to use outside benchmarking or record-setting. In either of these cases, a user would probably have a higher budget and not even need to bother with this core. I mean, if this thing superclocked gets just a little fewer average fps than a 4800, then imagine what you could do with a 4800 or the Opty equivalent. As I said before, this core is good, but NOWHERE near as good as claimed or implied in that article.





Inr esponse to saying the wattage it used up. It was stably running at 3.3 GHz with NO voltage increase on the core.. . . . what say you
TheGeek
I say ill probaby go to about 3.3Ghz and leave it at that. I was planning on only going to 3Ghz but if it will go to 3.3 without a volt mod then hell yea ill go to that...afterall im getting a 120mm heatsink/fan cooler for the thing
psycosquirrel
airek wrote:

Inr esponse to saying the wattage it used up. It was stably running at 3.3 GHz with NO voltage increase on the core.. . . . what say you


Uh, I say I was talking about the 4Ghz overclock. GG. Also, they don't mention gaming on it at that frequency. They will most likely need to up the voltage for full stability anyways.
ForceRun
I got this cpu for a friend and we are still working on his overclocking as we buy the last of the parts. Just to start we OC to 3.0 and it runs very smooth off stock cooler basic MoBo and cheap 450Watt Power suppy for only $130 that is a killer deal, once we get his 2 Gb of DDR2 OZ Ram and really start into the OC, I will post the results. As far as paying for PSU, MoBo, and and other than the cooler; this is cheap even on all those. There are tons of people that have now hit the 4.0 GHz clock with this CPU, check around. We are going to see what we can do with the stock, and maybe just get the Zalsman Cooler to get up to 3.7 GHz. Because even not OCing it is a good idea to get a real cooler, stock coolers are loud and worthless for the most part. And as you compare a $130 CPU to $1000 CPU realize just for one moment what you are doing, a CPU that is 1/8th the cost can even hope to compare that is sweet!
Donutey
www.overclockers.com has said people should wait a few weeks, and then the prices on the Pentium D 940 will come down to about $130, the 940 is a 65nm part which means it runs a lot cooler/uses less energy, and if i remember right it has more L2 cache and a 800mhz fsb.
TheGeek
its hard to believe that in one week the 940 will drop over 100 USD...though if it does im gunna be mad impressed and my friend who just bought the 805 to replace his aging AthlonXP will be mad upset with himself...though i cant wait to see what sorta OC they get with this 940 once it becomes cheap enough to try anything with it.
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