If there is a god what was he doing previous to humanity. If we were on a habitible planet on another solar system would we even know jesus. there are just too many questions revolving around judeo-christianity, or any other human religion for that matter.
Athiests just may have it right
| perfucorp wrote: |
| If we were on a habitible planet on another solar system would we even know jesus. |
Of course we would, He would have been born on that planet instead.
God is omnipresent and omnicient, after all.
God or Allah has always been around in this universe. humanity is just a sign to show His presence.
and i am a Muslim.. i talk with reference to the Holy Quran and The Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)
This post was edit by me, wumingsden
and i am a Muslim.. i talk with reference to the Holy Quran and The Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)
This post was edit by me, wumingsden
| perfucorp wrote: |
| 1. If there is a god what was he doing previous to humanity. 2. If we were on a habitible planet on another solar system would we even know jesus. there are just too many questions revolving around judeo-christianity, or any other human religion for that matter. |
1. God is transcendent, what means that He is over our Universe, so the laws of physics don't apply to Him. Neither does time. Time doesn't flow for God.
2. We don't know exactly if there's a habitable planet (I suppose there are many), but the point is not where Jesus was sent, but what for. And He came here, to become a human just like us, as it was the only way that He could pay Himself for our sins.
If you want you can create billions of questions like this, but if you really want to get known about faith, you can't do it with your mind only. You should use your heart as well
| Quote: |
| 2. We don't know exactly if there's a habitable planet (I suppose there are many), but the point is not where Jesus was sent, but what for. And He came here, to become a human just like us, as it was the only way that He could pay Himself for our sins.
|
That seems to be dodging the question, somewhat.
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there is another habitable planet, and that life has also developed there. The Quargloid People have never heard of Jesus, because he was sent to Earth not Planet Quargle.
Are the Quargloids going to hell because of an accident of geography? Did god send some other messenger to them? Are they just out of the game completely, and they just rot in the ground when they die?
| Subsonic Sound wrote: | ||
That seems to be dodging the question, somewhat. Lets assume for the sake of argument that there is another habitable planet, and that life has also developed there. The Quargloid People have never heard of Jesus, because he was sent to Earth not Planet Quargle. Are the Quargloids going to hell because of an accident of geography? Did god send some other messenger to them? Are they just out of the game completely, and they just rot in the ground when they die? |
why are you guyz takin things to another planet.... there were times on this planet wen no Prophet was there but people lived..... and as far as this is concerned that ppl who didnt get the message by Prophets of Allah are totally out of the game... this concept is rong because the Quran....Islamic Holy Book.... says that every person wil be rewarded or punished for his deeds....
so it can be possible that a person who never got the message of Allah actually be the one to go to Heaven....
like many people say that people of another religion are not going according to the teachings if their own religion will end up in Hell.... this concept is wrong because in the Holy Quran it is said that no one know what part of character of a person was liked by Allah... meaning that we cannot judge any1... because we dont know what deed of his was liked by Allah.....
and above all... it was by Allah's will that a certain person was not given the message of Allah...... Allah did not created a person to send him/her to Hell...... Heaven or Hell for a person is judged by the deeds that the person does...
the Quran also says that a person with the slightest of belief in Allah can achieve Heaven.... again depending on the deeds he did on this planet..
One of Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) hadiith says.... this world is a cultivating ground for the Hereafter.....Judgement Day...
We are all correct, to ourselves.
Any other way... and we are wrong. Why? Because I said so, and my years living give me proof without question.
Any other way... and we are wrong. Why? Because I said so, and my years living give me proof without question.
I suggest you to imagine that every one on this planet are god but don't know about it, can't accept this and thinks that's silly. Just make a simulation. What happens when suddenly all of the people realize that they are really one god and many 'god's' simultaneously 
you don't have to believe, just think about it.
I wrote 'god' because I believe he's a cool guy and won't kill me for this
you don't have to believe, just think about it.
I wrote 'god' because I believe he's a cool guy and won't kill me for this
| Subsonic Sound wrote: |
|
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there is another habitable planet, and that life has also developed there. The Quargloid People have never heard of Jesus, because he was sent to Earth not Planet Quargle. Are the Quargloids going to hell because of an accident of geography? Did god send some other messenger to them? Are they just out of the game completely, and they just rot in the ground when they die? |
What we are talking about is very hypothetical. No religious documents are written on this matter, so I'll try to explain it the way I think.
First, we should assume that Quargloids are on the same level of existence as poeple - they have a body, a spirit and a free will. (I believe animals have some form of spirit, but they don't have the free will so they cannot go to hell as they are sinless). If even so, maybe God has a different plan for those Quargloid people. To us God spoke through prophets, and by spiritual revelations. Before and after Jesus there were many different moments, when He appeared for various people, in various ways. Maybe He has another way to appear for them.
And if you think my religion claims that all of those who haven't heard of Jesus go to hell, you are in a big mistake. Due to Catholic Church (I guess that most of other churches and religions too), everyone, who follows the natural moral laws, should be redeemed, even if he's an atheist. Only sects claim that they have the monopoly for the truth and eternal life.
| salman_500 wrote: |
| like many people say that people of another religion are not going according to the teachings if their own religion will end up in Hell.... this concept is wrong because in the Holy Quran it is said that no one know what part of character of a person was liked by Allah... meaning that we cannot judge any1... because we dont know what deed of his was liked by Allah.....
and above all... it was by Allah's will that a certain person was not given the message of Allah...... Allah did not created a person to send him/her to Hell...... Heaven or Hell for a person is judged by the deeds that the person does... the Quran also says that a person with the slightest of belief in Allah can achieve Heaven.... again depending on the deeds he did on this planet.. |
| the_mariska wrote: |
| I'm very happy to see that beliefs in your religion on that matter are very similar to ours. |
well if you are a Christian than id like to say that yes.. this is soo because Islam is actually the next version os Christianity..... it was revealed to humanity because of the undesired changes that were made to the Christian Bible........Quran has replaced it...
| the_mariska wrote: |
| I guess no religion is better that the others - they are just different ways of praising the same God - call Him Allah, Jesus, Budda or any other way. |
i agree that all religion are indirectly praising the same God but renaming Him is what they are wrong with... like you said.. Allah can only be remembered AS Allah....not anybody else.... like your A and your talking to B... your trying to say that C is a good person but you say "D is a good person" so you know what your sayin but for others it is wrong... the same way Allah need to be remembered by Himself.... you wont say to your best freind B that C is your best friend, whilst what your trying to say is the B is your best friend... cmon man.......
| Quote: |
| If all of the Christians cared so much about they religion as you, Muslims, do, and we all learned to respect one another the world would be a much better place... |
I agree to this part... bt if the Christians really cared for their religion and did not make changes to it... maybe Islam never would have came.... you see Islam came because of religious changes in Christianity....
| salman_500 wrote: |
| i agree that all religion are indirectly praising the same God but renaming Him is what they are wrong with... like you said.. Allah can only be remembered AS Allah....not anybody else.... like your A and your talking to B... your trying to say that C is a good person but you say "D is a good person" so you know what your sayin but for others it is wrong... the same way Allah need to be remembered by Himself.... you wont say to your best freind B that C is your best friend, whilst what your trying to say is the B is your best friend... cmon man....... |
Well, I guess people in different parts of the world uses different names for the same God that appeared to them. We just call Him God, as in the Bible He said only I am Who I am, you call Him Allah, I guess He is happy with both as long as we do really follow His law.
| Quote: |
| I agree to this part... bt if the Christians really cared for their religion and did not make changes to it... maybe Islam never would have came.... you see Islam came because of religious changes in Christianity.... |
Maybe not religious changes but mistakes that Church has made in the history.. you know, we are only human and we can not praise the God perfect. That's why there are so many Christian churches in the world, because people noticed that there is something wrong and tried to fix it themselves. Luckily, the Catholic Church has realised that in many things they went wrong, and they tried to retrace in some matters, they did it in th Vatican Council II.
quite simple answer to all of this, yes, aestheists do have it right, if there was a god, he is bloody lazy and lacks and dedication to this little project of his. To be honest the Matrix is a more realists method of explainng our life.
| Ramblerinos wrote: |
| quite simple answer to all of this, yes, aestheists do have it right, if there was a god, he is bloody lazy and lacks and dedication to this little project of his. To be honest the Matrix is a more realists method of explainng our life. |
You would attempt to define the actions of "God"? Attempt to define/understand the intentions and innerworkings of a "God" that is all-knowing and all-powerful?
I'm glad you can, because I sure can't!
Flip the coin;
Are we really to believe that "God" in all his wisdom is going to use human hands and dusty books to win over his creations? It seems rather suspect.
---
We won't know until god dances down from the clouds on his golden chariot to give us all high-5s.
| Quote: |
| And if you think my religion claims that all of those who haven't heard of Jesus go to hell, you are in a big mistake. Due to Catholic Church (I guess that most of other churches and religions too), everyone, who follows the natural moral laws, should be redeemed, even if he's an atheist. Only sects claim that they have the monopoly for the truth and eternal life. |
That to me squares nicely with the idea of a benevolant omniscient being, but I have been told repeatedly, even right here on Frihost that if you've decided not to believe in God, you're doomed no matter what you do. By use of extreme examples I did manage to get them to admit that perhaps if you had truly never come across the word of god at all, and had lived a saintly life, perhaps you might make it as far as purgatory.
We're getting further and further from the topic, I know, but since it's come up... your opinion on that and their opinion differ hugely. If you've both taken your interpretations from the bible, how can it be undisputable, ultimate truth, if it's disputed?
Playing devil's advocate a little here, I know, but it's an intriguing question.
I like salman_500's approach - I don't yet know Islam well enough. But the idea that people should be judged by their behaviour and what they do rather than whether they slavishly follow some arcane rituals sounds good to me.
I don't subscribe to any faith, but I *will* do my best to make life better for everyone around me. If I can go to bed each day with the belief that I have made life a little better for somebody else, that I have generated net good rather than bad; then I am happy, or at least happier.
I don't need a Bible or any other holy book to tell me how to behave - just think about how your actions look to other people and how you would like to be treated.
I don't subscribe to any faith, but I *will* do my best to make life better for everyone around me. If I can go to bed each day with the belief that I have made life a little better for somebody else, that I have generated net good rather than bad; then I am happy, or at least happier.
I don't need a Bible or any other holy book to tell me how to behave - just think about how your actions look to other people and how you would like to be treated.
| Subsonic Sound wrote: |
|
That to me squares nicely with the idea of a benevolant omniscient being, but I have been told repeatedly, even right here on Frihost that if you've decided not to believe in God, you're doomed no matter what you do. By use of extreme examples I did manage to get them to admit that perhaps if you had truly never come across the word of god at all, and had lived a saintly life, perhaps you might make it as far as purgatory. We're getting further and further from the topic, I know, but since it's come up... your opinion on that and their opinion differ hugely. If you've both taken your interpretations from the bible, how can it be undisputable, ultimate truth, if it's disputed? Playing devil's advocate a little here, I know, but it's an intriguing question. |
Good that you ask questons, it's better than if you said just "I'm an atheist, don't talk about God when I'm around" like a lot of my friends do.
The point of Catholic Church is that every one who goes to heaven, goes there because Jesus died on cross to wash away his sins. However, He died for all the mankind, so everybody has a chance to be saved.
There a lot of theological documents about that, I'll post here only a little quote paraphrasing them:
| Quote: |
| The fact that there is only one Saviour Jesus Christ, with a tight connection to the Holy Spirit, does not mean that only Christians could be saved. Their influence is much broader than the official borders of the Church and covers the whole mankind. |
Here's also a few quotes from Bible that support that point of view:
Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Matthew 21:28-32 - "What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'
29" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.
31"Which of the two did what his father wanted?"
"The first," they answered.
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."
Matthew 23:23-24 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."
Well, perhaps there are other theories that don't simply follow a book or books that were written so long ago that their relevance is in constant argument.
Imagine that people fear the unknown. Next imagine that people wish to survive. So a charismatic person says that people should work together, and others begin to catch on. Now this happens in multiple places around the world. Societies form and try to eek out an existence. They begin to revere the charismatic intelligent one would brought them together.
Now bad things begin to happen (weather, nature, predators, rivaling societies), and the people ask their leader(s) why. With no really good reason, the leader(s) make up that that is the will of things. Eventually that evolves into the will of one thing, since it is more convenient to blame or revere one thing than it is to try and explain multiple things.
As the world evolved, the unknowns began to shrink, and people HATE change. So they kept this one thing to continue to answer the ever increasing unkowns. When science took off, people rationalized how their could be both a scientific answer and a "by God's will" answer. But in reality, it is all perception.
My point? There is no being sitiing in the clouds being fickle and allowing good things to happen to bad people, and bad things to happen to good people. Life sustains itself. Over millenia creatures evolve due to survival - not because they were chosen. Who knows what might have been if the ice ages never happened. Perhaps humans would still be feral creatures hiding from the dominant dinosaurs, who consequently could have evolved inot thinking, rationalizing, societal beings who caged humans to "learn about nature" in zoos much like we do with common animals today...
Knowledge can only exist when one realizes perception and thought do not exist in silos. You are your own shepherd.
Imagine that people fear the unknown. Next imagine that people wish to survive. So a charismatic person says that people should work together, and others begin to catch on. Now this happens in multiple places around the world. Societies form and try to eek out an existence. They begin to revere the charismatic intelligent one would brought them together.
Now bad things begin to happen (weather, nature, predators, rivaling societies), and the people ask their leader(s) why. With no really good reason, the leader(s) make up that that is the will of things. Eventually that evolves into the will of one thing, since it is more convenient to blame or revere one thing than it is to try and explain multiple things.
As the world evolved, the unknowns began to shrink, and people HATE change. So they kept this one thing to continue to answer the ever increasing unkowns. When science took off, people rationalized how their could be both a scientific answer and a "by God's will" answer. But in reality, it is all perception.
My point? There is no being sitiing in the clouds being fickle and allowing good things to happen to bad people, and bad things to happen to good people. Life sustains itself. Over millenia creatures evolve due to survival - not because they were chosen. Who knows what might have been if the ice ages never happened. Perhaps humans would still be feral creatures hiding from the dominant dinosaurs, who consequently could have evolved inot thinking, rationalizing, societal beings who caged humans to "learn about nature" in zoos much like we do with common animals today...
Knowledge can only exist when one realizes perception and thought do not exist in silos. You are your own shepherd.
Many athiests that I have talked to are actually agnostic and just dont know that there was even a word that described them. I have been agnostic since I can remember. I went to church from birthday to my 16th year on this planet. As soon as I graduated catechism i was out of the building of lies for good. I just think it is stupid to base your whole believe system on something that has never been proven scientifically and is just a black book about magic tricks.
I think that ultimately the idea that a text written during a time when many many people were illiterate, before the enlightenment, and often not travelling, or at least knowing, of anything much futher past the horizon of where they were born - is a definitive text of "a higher being spoken through a prophet" is a little iffy.
The idea that many of the worlds religions were spawned at a similar time also perhaps lends itself to the idea of different thought groups coming together to put foward an alternative idea, for ideas sake - or control of the masses (which ultimately transpired and lives to this day!).
I think we have now got to the point where we can construct some very universal moral guidance which can be ahered to, without too much worry over whether we are going to burn in eternal damnation!
If not - I'm pretty screwed! Live and let live I say. Don't ever carry out anything in the name of "Religion". This has usually been the excuse for most of the worst acts of torture/abuse/killing that the world has seen over the past two millenia.
The idea that many of the worlds religions were spawned at a similar time also perhaps lends itself to the idea of different thought groups coming together to put foward an alternative idea, for ideas sake - or control of the masses (which ultimately transpired and lives to this day!).
I think we have now got to the point where we can construct some very universal moral guidance which can be ahered to, without too much worry over whether we are going to burn in eternal damnation!
If not - I'm pretty screwed! Live and let live I say. Don't ever carry out anything in the name of "Religion". This has usually been the excuse for most of the worst acts of torture/abuse/killing that the world has seen over the past two millenia.
| duder673 wrote: |
| Many athiests that I have talked to are actually agnostic and just dont know that there was even a word that described them. I have been agnostic since I can remember. I went to church from birthday to my 16th year on this planet. As soon as I graduated catechism i was out of the building of lies for good. I just think it is stupid to base your whole believe system on something that has never been proven scientifically and is just a black book about magic tricks. |
"Agnostic" is an incomplete label. Agnosticism implies that you don't know whether or not God exists, or maybe that you think it is impossible to know for sure. The problem is, you can think that way and be a theist or an atheist. For example, an agnostic theist: "I know that it is impossible to know for sure whether or not God exists, but I believe that he does". Or, an agnostic atheist: "I don't believe that God exists, but I'm open to the possibility".
See? To say you're agnostic says that you're unsure about whether or not God exists, but you still either believe he does or you don't, for the time being at least. Thus, even if you are agnostic, you're still a theist or an atheist.
| Indi wrote: |
|
"Agnostic" is an incomplete label. Agnosticism implies that you don't know whether or not God exists, or maybe that you think it is impossible to know for sure. The problem is, you can think that way and be a theist or an atheist. For example, an agnostic theist: "I know that it is impossible to know for sure whether or not God exists, but I believe that he does". Or, an agnostic atheist: "I don't believe that God exists, but I'm open to the possibility". See? To say you're agnostic says that you're unsure about whether or not God exists, but you still either believe he does or you don't, for the time being at least. Thus, even if you are agnostic, you're still a theist or an atheist. |
agnosticists also believe that it doesn't matter if gods exist or whether they don't (I say gods so as not to offend pagans) Agnosticism therefore doesn't have to be thiest or atheist, they can just be agnostic, agnosticists who believe in god but don't believe he matters are techincally religious
Agnostic is for people who don't know if they believe if god exists or not, and don't care
| bogger wrote: |
| agnosticists also believe that it doesn't matter if gods exist or whether they don't (I say gods so as not to offend pagans) Agnosticism therefore doesn't have to be thiest or atheist, they can just be agnostic, agnosticists who believe in god but don't believe he matters are techincally religious
Agnostic is for people who don't know if they believe if god exists or not, and don't care |
Atheism covers "don't care". Atheism means "not theism" ("a-" meaning "the lack of" and "-theism" meaning "belief in God (or gods)"), so anything that's not "I believe God (or gods) exists" is atheist, including "I don't believe God exists", "I believe God doesn't exist", "I've never heard of God" and "I don't care about God", among other things. It is a commonly held misconception that "atheism" means the denial of the existence of God, but it doesn't. It just means the lack of belief. The form of atheism that actually denies God exists is called strong atheism.
Agnostic doesn't imply that you don't care whether or not God exists. Agnostic simply means you don't know ("a-": "lack of"; "-gnosticism": "knowledge (of God's existence, specifically)"). Agnosticism generally comes in two forms: "I don't know whether or not God exists (but it is possible to find out, somehow, eventually)" is "soft" agnosticism, and "No one can know whether or not God exists (because it is impossible to know)" is "hard" agnosticism. Of course, there are many different flavours of agnosticism, just like there are many different flavours of atheism (and theism, for that matter).
Everyone in the world is either theist or atheist, just like everyone is either a believer in the story that pop rocks and coke will kill you or not. Obviously if you believe you're a believer, and if you believe it's hogwash you're not. But what if you've never heard of the story? Well then, you can't be a believer, so you fall into the "not" category. What if you don't care? Well then, you are probably not a believer, so you fall into the "not" category. What if you're not sure? "Sure" only means absolute belief, one way or another - but even if you're wavering or not quite so absolute about your beliefs, you still either believe or you don't... so the question is, would you eat pop rocks then drink a coke if challenged to? If no, then you are a believer. If yes, then you're not.
Same with theism and atheism. Do you believe in God? Yes means theist. Anything else means atheist. Whether you believe God is nonsense, or you don't care whether he exists or not, or you haven't heard of him - whatever, as long as you don't believe he exists - you're atheist.
Note: Agnosticism means not knowing whether or not God exists, it doesn't mean you don't know what you believe. If you don't know what you believe, that just means you don't know whether you're atheist or theist, but you're still one or the other.
So to use your examples:
"agnosticists also believe that it doesn't matter if gods exist or whether they don't" - Not really. Whether it matters or not has nothing to do with agnosticism. Agnosticism is only about knowing or not knowing, and has nothing to do with believing or caring. If you believe the gods exist, but it doesn't matter to you - they can all go stuff themselves for all you care - then you are a theist who doesn't care. If you don't believe gods exist, and it doesn't matter to you, you're an atheist.
"agnosticists who believe in god but don't believe he matters are techincally religious" - Yes, they are theists, albeit apathetic theists. Agnosticism has nothing to do with that.
"Agnostic is for people who don't know if they believe if god exists or not, and don't care" - If you don't know what you believe, that doesn't make you agnostic, just confused. If you don't care, that doesn't make you agnostic either, just apathetic. Only not knowing makes you agnostic.
Perhaps if the thousands of believers dropped their "better-than-you" outlook towards there agnostic and atheist peers, and actually searched for a reason, logic or meaning to religion they would find none.However this remains impossible for a God-fearing Christian or Muslim because even the act of having a doubt over the existence of the Holy Spirit is an "Unforgivable Sin". You cannot ask questions because if you DO you go to hell.
Well that takes care of logic, reasoning and inner-vision.I wish humanity and its religion several thousand more years of blood shed, hate and fear.You cannot see the light because...you are forbidden to ( if you doubt, id est if you attempt to THINK...you are a sinner and will suffer eternal damnation...now WHO wants to do THAT? ).
Men of religion assume that atheists/agnostics/infidels/heathens are heartless, compassionless, people without values. Instead agnostics/atheists are men and women who practise Free Thought and hold themselves up to the highest Ideals...the Ideal of man as a Perfect being - his religion being only that which brings good to the individual - himself - and thus the community. Men who see God in every individual around them - how? A man who has certain and defined Creed ( Catholic, Protestant, Shia, Sunni ) holds other men of different faith to be heathens "instrument of the Devil/Satan " and justifies their annihilation, or their superiority over them.This is not so for an atheist/agnostic.Each man is holy - so long as he holds himself up to moral standards that he himself defines.
Perhaps to define an Atheist or Agnostic as one who doubts the existence of God is incorrect. Atheists are people who find the subject of God and his questionable existence as besides the point of life...for if God does exist then he desires man to live to the fullest, unhindered by dogma, and if he doesn't - then man must live to the fullest, with moral fibre and his own well being as his goal - why? because that is what the nature of each man from the point of his birth is - his own well-being and survival.
You swear by your holy books.Yet do you know what they mean?A small preview:
Two daughters conspire to have sex with their father. Here we have rape, deceit, incest, and illegitimate pregnancy. Do we want our children exposed to this debauchery? According to the organization Prevent Child Abuse America, at least 20% of American women experienced some form of sexual abuse as children. What kind of message is this book sending to girls? That sexual abuse is okay? That incest is acceptable?
And, yet, it is held up as a moral guide.
What of the passage that reads,
What kind of sick imagery does that put into the minds of children? The consumption of one's young? Why, even in Hansel and Gretel, the two children get away before the witch can eat them. Here, cannibalism and child murder are not depicted in a negative light.
In a 1993 national survey conducted by Metropolitan Life, 55 percent of teachers and 60 percent of law enforcement officials believed that violence in the mass media is a "major" factor contributing to violence in the schools.
Well that takes care of logic, reasoning and inner-vision.I wish humanity and its religion several thousand more years of blood shed, hate and fear.You cannot see the light because...you are forbidden to ( if you doubt, id est if you attempt to THINK...you are a sinner and will suffer eternal damnation...now WHO wants to do THAT? ).
Men of religion assume that atheists/agnostics/infidels/heathens are heartless, compassionless, people without values. Instead agnostics/atheists are men and women who practise Free Thought and hold themselves up to the highest Ideals...the Ideal of man as a Perfect being - his religion being only that which brings good to the individual - himself - and thus the community. Men who see God in every individual around them - how? A man who has certain and defined Creed ( Catholic, Protestant, Shia, Sunni ) holds other men of different faith to be heathens "instrument of the Devil/Satan " and justifies their annihilation, or their superiority over them.This is not so for an atheist/agnostic.Each man is holy - so long as he holds himself up to moral standards that he himself defines.
Perhaps to define an Atheist or Agnostic as one who doubts the existence of God is incorrect. Atheists are people who find the subject of God and his questionable existence as besides the point of life...for if God does exist then he desires man to live to the fullest, unhindered by dogma, and if he doesn't - then man must live to the fullest, with moral fibre and his own well being as his goal - why? because that is what the nature of each man from the point of his birth is - his own well-being and survival.
You swear by your holy books.Yet do you know what they mean?A small preview:
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| (Genesis 19:4-8 ) "And Lot went up to Zoar," reads a passage, "and stayed in the mountains, and his two daughters with him.... Then the firstborn said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve our family through our father.' Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father." |
Two daughters conspire to have sex with their father. Here we have rape, deceit, incest, and illegitimate pregnancy. Do we want our children exposed to this debauchery? According to the organization Prevent Child Abuse America, at least 20% of American women experienced some form of sexual abuse as children. What kind of message is this book sending to girls? That sexual abuse is okay? That incest is acceptable?
And, yet, it is held up as a moral guide.
What of the passage that reads,
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| "(II Kings 6:28,29) And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son,that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son." |
What kind of sick imagery does that put into the minds of children? The consumption of one's young? Why, even in Hansel and Gretel, the two children get away before the witch can eat them. Here, cannibalism and child murder are not depicted in a negative light.
In a 1993 national survey conducted by Metropolitan Life, 55 percent of teachers and 60 percent of law enforcement officials believed that violence in the mass media is a "major" factor contributing to violence in the schools.
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| Muslim because even the act of having a doubt over the existence of the Holy Spirit is an "Unforgivable Sin |
please be 100% sure of what your saying with cristans i dont no but with muslims haveing douht is a trick of the devil but can be forgiven
the only act in islam that is unforgivable is to belive then FULLY unforgiveable
To believe and then relinquish the faith.
Yes - so perhaps a man born into a faith - out of no choice of his is a believer by default - and once he does not believe he shall be forsaken forever - thereby meaning that if he doubts he must live in fear of what he may find out to be his own personal "truth".
Thereby reinstating what I just said.
Please be 100% sure that you think about what I post before you reply.
Thank you.
Yes - so perhaps a man born into a faith - out of no choice of his is a believer by default - and once he does not believe he shall be forsaken forever - thereby meaning that if he doubts he must live in fear of what he may find out to be his own personal "truth".
Thereby reinstating what I just said.
Please be 100% sure that you think about what I post before you reply.
Thank you.
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| To believe and then relinquish the faith.
Yes - so perhaps a man born into a faith - out of no choice of his is a believer by default - and once he does not believe he shall be forsaken forever - thereby meaning that if he doubts he must live in fear of what he may find out to be his own personal "truth". Thereby reinstating what I just said. Please be 100% sure that you think about what I post before you reply. Thank you. |
yes a person is born into faith there by after growing up he learns his/her perents religion this still dose not give one power over there belief one is given power ti choose what relgion he/she wants to be when capable of makeing choose(most likely pubity) but may come before may come after
There is no god but you, and you are your prophet.
Not all Christians believe you can't question things. It states specifically in the bible to study to show yourself approved. That means to question, study, compare. Don't take just one verse and base a whole religion on it. Find at least 2 or more verses that say the same thing before you accept it as fact.
If you have a different opinion on what you think a verse is saying than I do, talk to me about it. Let me get my bible out and study on it to see if I can see where you're coming from. I welcome questions. If I don't know the answer right then, I'll say so and see if I can find it. There is nothing wrong with questions. We learn by asking questions, wheither the subject is our beliefs or anything else.
Please don't assume that just because some Christian prefer that you don't question anything that all Christians are the same. That would be like me saying that all aethist, muslims and so on are all the same. It's definitely untrue.
If you have a different opinion on what you think a verse is saying than I do, talk to me about it. Let me get my bible out and study on it to see if I can see where you're coming from. I welcome questions. If I don't know the answer right then, I'll say so and see if I can find it. There is nothing wrong with questions. We learn by asking questions, wheither the subject is our beliefs or anything else.
Please don't assume that just because some Christian prefer that you don't question anything that all Christians are the same. That would be like me saying that all aethist, muslims and so on are all the same. It's definitely untrue.
Christians cannot be freethinkers, since all their thoughts and imaginings must be brought into captivity in obedience to Christ.As the following verse from the Bible clearly instructs.
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This does not encompass more liberal minded individuals.However a liberal view at religion leaves such followers in a sickening in-between area where they choose to overlook violent and disturbing portions of their faith and follow only what is more mellow and subtle - unknowingly endorsing the doctrines [ "bad" ones including ] and endorsing the religion on the whole.
There are several passages...tens, perhaps hundreds that I would love to show you.However you could save me the time and look them up yourself.
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| 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; |
This does not encompass more liberal minded individuals.However a liberal view at religion leaves such followers in a sickening in-between area where they choose to overlook violent and disturbing portions of their faith and follow only what is more mellow and subtle - unknowingly endorsing the doctrines [ "bad" ones including ] and endorsing the religion on the whole.
There are several passages...tens, perhaps hundreds that I would love to show you.However you could save me the time and look them up yourself.
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| There is no god but you, and you are your prophet. |
well said.
Another planet with intelligent life would not be christian but it's highly likely that they would have some sort of religion. It is simerlar to different countries developing different religions. It is my opinion that if any one religion was right then it would have been everywhere amoungst all people and not just in one group of people. Which means that if there is on or many form/s of higher instelligence than it shows it's self in different ways to different peoples.
Ok just a couple of things to think about..
this is more oriented towards Christians (because i lack in knowlege of other major religions)
oh btw, i was previously a Christian.
Fate:::
is life predetermined?.. because if it is, then what happened to freewill.. so right now if i jumped off the empire state building, or started a 10k marathon it would be because He wanted us to?.. i think not, i would be in charge completely..
The argument to that is the "influence" theory, that God can only give you ideas and then you can execute the thought or not.. well heres my take on that... influencing someone, is like whispering in their ear, and trying to sway them a certain direction.... is that what the "devil" is supposed to be doing?... hmm i wont even touch upon similarities..
Hope:::
hope does not exist.. its a way of lieing you yourself. When i try to win something, me hoping to win is NOT going to increase chances of ANYTHING happening.. hope i will concure does indeed give people that extra push to accomplish something that is COMPLETLEY physically up to them.. but something that is not directly in their hands, is not in the function of hope..
Jesus:::
in my opinion, he probably did exist, but he was not of superior power to the human race.. he was probably very intelligent and was a great philosipher. There is much evidence to his human existence, but not much else about his super-natural persona thats in the bible.
Sins:::
If things are pre-determined, everyone has hope, and jesus died for man-kinds sins... then wouldnt God have planned out Sins out, but its stated in the bible that we would go to hell for sins, but didnt jesus clear up that whole mess.
Homosexuality:::
I read about more guys kissing in the Bible than ill ever see in real life. . . so i wont even clean up that BS.
Money:::
not really in the bible... but the church gets a LOT of money from the Catholics... for "religious purposes"..
I think the priests need to Go ahead and get their fated job, have some hope so they can get some money, and try to keep the homosexual sinning on the D/L.
BTW, i have no intention on answering questions, nor replying to any comments about this post, cuz its not a big issue for me.. take it how you will (a joke, a religious crime, etc. . .) but thats my OPINION.. deal with it
this is more oriented towards Christians (because i lack in knowlege of other major religions)
oh btw, i was previously a Christian.
Fate:::
is life predetermined?.. because if it is, then what happened to freewill.. so right now if i jumped off the empire state building, or started a 10k marathon it would be because He wanted us to?.. i think not, i would be in charge completely..
The argument to that is the "influence" theory, that God can only give you ideas and then you can execute the thought or not.. well heres my take on that... influencing someone, is like whispering in their ear, and trying to sway them a certain direction.... is that what the "devil" is supposed to be doing?... hmm i wont even touch upon similarities..
Hope:::
hope does not exist.. its a way of lieing you yourself. When i try to win something, me hoping to win is NOT going to increase chances of ANYTHING happening.. hope i will concure does indeed give people that extra push to accomplish something that is COMPLETLEY physically up to them.. but something that is not directly in their hands, is not in the function of hope..
Jesus:::
in my opinion, he probably did exist, but he was not of superior power to the human race.. he was probably very intelligent and was a great philosipher. There is much evidence to his human existence, but not much else about his super-natural persona thats in the bible.
Sins:::
If things are pre-determined, everyone has hope, and jesus died for man-kinds sins... then wouldnt God have planned out Sins out, but its stated in the bible that we would go to hell for sins, but didnt jesus clear up that whole mess.
Homosexuality:::
I read about more guys kissing in the Bible than ill ever see in real life. . . so i wont even clean up that BS.
Money:::
not really in the bible... but the church gets a LOT of money from the Catholics... for "religious purposes"..
I think the priests need to Go ahead and get their fated job, have some hope so they can get some money, and try to keep the homosexual sinning on the D/L.
BTW, i have no intention on answering questions, nor replying to any comments about this post, cuz its not a big issue for me.. take it how you will (a joke, a religious crime, etc. . .) but thats my OPINION.. deal with it
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