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Poverty in the USA





blackheart
The level of poverty in the US is disgusting. How can a country allow it's people, not just on an individual basis but entire towns, to live in houses so delapedated they don't keep out the rain, and are missing boards, and who's windows are broken...

Where is the safety net? Look at Canada and Australia - our "holes" mean some of the houses are without wallpaper, or just have overgrown gardens.

How is it there are so many sleeping on the streets - when in Australia at the bare minimum people have shelters - usually only in interval before the government can provide them housing.

I need to look more into it fact-wise, but for a country so proud, it lets it's people rot a bit too much for my liking.

Although I agree you have what you work for etc, there should be a minimum living standard.

And for alot of the poor in the States, it's a case of not having the education to work, and not having the work (money) to become educated or educate their children... hence it is not a case of equal opportunity for all - for those who are born into poverty are kept there by lack of means. A dangerous and recurring cycle.

The worst thing about it is the money being pumped into America's defence, when more of it's people suffer from poverty than any possible outside threat. Which is hyped up and overrated in itself anyway.

Thank God I'm an Australian is all I can say.

mathiaus: edited topic title
S3nd K3ys
blackheart wrote:
...

Thank God I'm an Australian is all I can say.


Agreed! Wink
SunburnedCactus
S3nd K3ys wrote:
blackheart wrote:
...

Thank God I'm an Australian is all I can say.


Agreed! Wink


Ooh, buurn!
wumingsden
OK, lets try and keep the SPAM down to a minimum please.

I believe the problem is down to peoples opinions. It ia so obvious that America is majorly Capitalist, whereas Canada, UK, Australia, etc, are Communist. **The difference being people actually care about others as well as themselves.
Another problem is the difference in the Rich and Poor of America. There is simply no equal opportunity which Politics like to think. OK, so Bush says that "No Child Will Be Left Behind" (note that this is not a full quote) but this also isn't true. When it comes down to it people only care about themselves which is the root of the problem. If the rich America gave to the poor america then there'd be no problem.

The following are lyrics from "Dear Mr. President" by Pink feat. Indigo Girls. I think that it sums up the problem in the best three minutes of my life that I spend listening to this song...


Quote:

Dear Mr. President
Come take a walk with me
Let's pretend we're just two people and
You're not better than me

I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly

What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street
Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep
What do you feel when you look in the mirror
Are you proud

How do you sleep while the rest of us cry
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye
How do you walk with your head held high
Can you even look me in the eye
And tell me why

Dear Mr. President
Were you a lonely boy
Are you a lonely boy
Are you a lonely boy
How can you say
No child is left behind

We're not dumb and we're not blind
They're all sitting in your cells
While you pave the road to hell


What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine


How do you sleep while the rest of us cry
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye
How do you walk with your head held high
Can you even look me in the eye

Let me tell you bout hard work
Minimum wage with a baby on the way
Let me tell you bout hard work
Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away
Let me tell you bout hard work
Building a bed out of a cardboard box
Let me tell you bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
You don't know nothing bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
Oh

How do you sleep at night
How do you walk with your head held high
Dear Mr. President
You'd never take a walk with me
Would you

blackheart
wumingsden wrote:
OK, lets try and keep the SPAM down to a minimum please.

I believe the problem is down to peoples opinions. It ia so obvious that America is majorly Capitalist, whereas Canada, UK, Australia, etc, are Communist.


I wouldn't call either of us all-out communist - we have bout as much Capitalist ideals in our systems.

I mean, support from the government in healthcare and public schooling should be something expected in every country. It's so fundamental.
SunburnedCactus
blackheart wrote:
wumingsden wrote:
OK, lets try and keep the SPAM down to a minimum please.

I believe the problem is down to peoples opinions. It ia so obvious that America is majorly Capitalist, whereas Canada, UK, Australia, etc, are Communist.


I wouldn't call either of us all-out communist - we have bout as much Capitalist ideals in our systems.

I mean, support from the government in healthcare and public schooling should be something expected in every country. It's so fundamental.


Ditto, the UK is hardly communist at all, and it's leaning further right by the day at the moment. Capitalism and developed democracy go hand in hand.

Our esteemed public healthcare service has taken rather a turn for the worse of late, so it is hardly a shining example.

The rich cannot simply "give to the poor", redistribution of wealth has never been successful historically and is certainly not a wonder cure for the problem of deep rooted poverty. Serious policy decisions need to be made to solve quality of life issues.
S3nd K3ys
Is this the 'Frihost Moderators bashing Americans' thread?

The people in the US don't care? Are you seriously that ignorant? Or just acting like you're retarded so you can bash the US?

Lets do a comparison, shall we?

How much money do the American people (NOT including the government), send to other countries to fight famin, disease, disaster, etc etc etc etc. ???

And how much, by comparison per capita, do other people, (INCLUDING government), from other countries send in emergencies, aid etc?

When was the last time someone starved to death in the US? When was the last time a homeless person was refused shelter or food when they asked for it or needed it in the US? Not in my lifetime.

FACT IS: The people of the US are some of the most giving people in the world when it comes to helping others in need. BUT, if you refuse to work and are capable, then you get what you deserve; the ghetto. I lived there once.

I was poor and homeless for a while shortly after high school. Now I own a (over) half-million dollar home in one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

So, mister moderator, why don't you leave your ******** attitude and personal attacks at the door, and start acting like a moderator for once.
SunburnedCactus
Also copying and pasting song lyrics is copyright infringing. Wuh-oh! Wink
blackheart
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Is this the 'Frihost Moderators bashing Americans' thread?

The people in the US don't care? Are you seriously that ignorant? Or just acting like you're retarded so you can bash the US?

Lets do a comparison, shall we?

How much money do the American people (NOT including the government), send to other countries to fight famin, disease, disaster, etc etc etc etc. ???

And how much, by comparison per capita, do other people, (INCLUDING government), from other countries send in emergencies, aid etc?


(I edited this, while keys must have been writting his rebuttal. so I'll put this line back in, though ammended: If one takes into account how much the US $ is worth vs. Australia's, we donate about the same.)

Oh my, Australia seems to outrank the US.... 4th vs. 12th.
http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi


And there are times when we are considerably more generous:

Tsunami Aid:
Australia $38.39
America $1.19

S3nd K3ys wrote:


When was the last time someone starved to death in the US? When was the last time a homeless person was refused shelter or food when they asked for it or needed it in the US? Not in my lifetime.

FACT IS: The people of the US are some of the most giving people in the world when it comes to helping others in need. BUT, if you refuse to work and are capable, then you get what you deserve; the ghetto. I lived there once.

I can assure you after having studied your countries lack of welfare in english that there are literally thousands now on your work4welfare scheme away from home early till late, earning minimum wage and struggling to pay the rent even with two jobs.

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated. Towns built around factories that have now closed are ghettos in themselves, where you're practically born into the place a no-hoper because once your in, in reality it's incredibly hard to get out.

Quote:

I was poor and homeless for a while shortly after high school. Now I own a (over) half-million dollar home in one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

Were you poor while you were attending a run-down school in a town with no employment opportunities other than the welfare for work?
I mean, good for you, but wouldn't you rather your constitution supported the idea of giving people the support to get back on their feet?
Quote:

So, mister moderator, why don't you leave your bullsh!t attitude and personal attacks at the door, and start acting like a moderator for once.


Oh, I'm sorry, did I dare insult the great American ego?
S3nd K3ys
blackheart wrote:

If one takes into account how much the US $ is worth vs. Australia's, we donate about the same.


Yet you claim the US citizens don't care?

Quote:

I can assure you


The only thing you've assured me of is your level of ignorance.

Quote:

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated.


There are a multitude of FREE educational avenues for ANYONE in the US to use. INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Bottom line: If you're not surviving comfortably, it's your own fault. There is EVERY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO LIVE COMFORTABLY IF YOU PUT JUST A LITTLE EFFORT INTO IT.

Quote:

but wouldn't you rather your constitution supported the idea of giving people the support to get back on their feet?


Whether or not the constitution provides it is irrelivant; it does exist, on many many levels.

Again (in case you failed to understand the first time) , failure and homelessness in the US is 99.9% your own fault.

Look at our unemployment rate... less than 5%

Quote:
Oh, I'm sorry, did I dare insult the great American ego?


I just think that if you're going to be a moderator, you should act like one instead of acting like an eight year old.

And if you're going to make accusations about the people of another country, you should at least do us the favor of educating yourself about it beforehand so as not to make yourself look like a complete fool.
blackheart
Quote:
Quote:

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated.


There are a multitude of FREE educational avenues for ANYONE in the US to use. INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Bottom line: If you're not surviving comfortably, it's your own fault. There is EVERY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO LIVE COMFORTABLY IF YOU PUT JUST A LITTLE EFFORT INTO IT.


The problem is not finding free education, it's having education available to you that will actually get you somewhere.
S3nd K3ys
blackheart wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated.


There are a multitude of FREE educational avenues for ANYONE in the US to use. INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Bottom line: If you're not surviving comfortably, it's your own fault. There is EVERY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO LIVE COMFORTABLY IF YOU PUT JUST A LITTLE EFFORT INTO IT.


The problem is not finding free education, it's having education available to you that will actually get you somewhere.


HuH? Rolling Eyes

Are you confused?
blackheart
S3nd K3ys wrote:
blackheart wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated.


There are a multitude of FREE educational avenues for ANYONE in the US to use. INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Bottom line: If you're not surviving comfortably, it's your own fault. There is EVERY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO LIVE COMFORTABLY IF YOU PUT JUST A LITTLE EFFORT INTO IT.


The problem is not finding free education, it's having education available to you that will actually get you somewhere.


HuH? Rolling Eyes

Are you confused?


A school that receives minimal funding, and thereby with limited resources and a lower-wage staff aren't going to offer the same level of education as another that receives the funding/support.
S3nd K3ys
blackheart wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
blackheart wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

The uneducated can't work to get the money to become educated.


There are a multitude of FREE educational avenues for ANYONE in the US to use. INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Bottom line: If you're not surviving comfortably, it's your own fault. There is EVERY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO LIVE COMFORTABLY IF YOU PUT JUST A LITTLE EFFORT INTO IT.


The problem is not finding free education, it's having education available to you that will actually get you somewhere.


HuH? Rolling Eyes

Are you confused?


A school that receives minimal funding, and thereby with limited resources and a lower-wage staff aren't going to offer the same level of education as another that receives the funding/support.


That's a lame-ass cop-out if I ever saw one.

You should be more concerned with what some of the schools are doing with the money they recieve as opposed to how much money they recieve. That would be a topic worthy of debate and more importantly, exposure.

And the fact STILL REMAINS (whether you want to accept it or not) that there is every opportunity for ANYONE to succeed here.

Stop trying to skirt the issue and deal with the facts for once.
wumingsden
SunburnedCactus wrote:

Our esteemed public healthcare service has taken rather a turn for the worse of late, so it is hardly a shining example.


I'd completely disagree with this statement. The media hypes up the negetive attention of the NHS. I go to hospital all the time, like every other week, and I've never seen it in a bad state. If you haven't witnessed it, then there really is no need talking about it. I say this because you'd only know about what you've heard and seen, and I've done both so cannot be biased about it.

@ S3nd K3ys: It is against the rules to try and bypass the word filter.

Quote:
Do not attempt to cuss or bypass the filter. Bypassing the filter may result in your entire post getting snipped.

- from the Rules

I don't think none of the Staff would like another "Gonzo Situation". Please try and respect other peoples opinions by not telling them what they believe in is "******** ".

SunburnedCactus wrote:

Also copying and pasting song lyrics is copyright infringing.


I was going to add one of my little notes but decided not to. I have stated who's lyrics there are and also used quotes so for this reason I know its ok, whether it is "copyright infringing"(ment) or not. I have not stated that the lyrics are mine Rolling Eyes

S3nd K3ys wrote:

Or just acting like you're retarded so you can bash the US?

Quote:
Mental retardation (also called mental handicap and the UK Mental Health Act (1983) defines mental impairment and severe mental impairment) is a term for a pattern of persistently slow learning of basic motor and language skills ("milestones") during childhood, and a significantly below-normal global intellectual capacity as an adult. One common criterion for diagnosis of mental retardation is a tested intelligence quotient (IQ) below 70.


the Google Definition

I may be classed as "disabled" but I am probably more capable then you. I do not enjoy being dis-respected like any other normal person. I have not disrespected you so there is no need to do it to me. Also you are using the word "retarded" in the negetive sense which may break the "Posts, avatars and signatures must not degrade, insult or disrespect other users or groups of people" rule. Maybe you should read them again to familiarise yourself with them, it seems that you have broken two rules in one thread which sure isn't healthy to you.

S3nd K3ys wrote:

Are you seriously that ignorant?


Quote:
uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication;


[url=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=define%3A+ignorant&meta=]the Google Definition


I have a very good education, with excellent grades without even considering my circumstances. Again I do not like to be dis-respected so please don't do it to me. It also breaks the "Posts, avatars and signatures must not degrade, insult or disrespect other users or groups of people" rule.

S3nd K3ys wrote:

The people in the US don't care?


I'm gathering that you are asking this question to me for saying:

Quote:
I believe the problem is down to peoples opinions. It ia so obvious that America is majorly Capitalist, whereas Canada, UK, Australia, etc, are Communist. **The difference being people actually care about others as well as themselves.


Note that I was explaining the differences between Capitalism and Communism, for those that didn't know the meaning. I stick by the above statement, its my opinion after all. Agree or Disagree with it, I don't mind Wink

S3nd K3ys wrote:
Again (in case you failed to understand the first time) , failure and homelessness in the US is 99.9% your own fault.


Could i see your source please ? One would think that this isn't a very big amount anyway but if you consider how many people there are homeless then the statement seems much more negetive. It may be an interesting read if you provide the link. If not then I'm not going to take the amount into account.
Devil
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Is this the 'Frihost Moderators bashing Americans' thread?

The people in the US don't care? Are you seriously that ignorant? Or just acting like you're retarded so you can bash the US?

Lets do a comparison, shall we?

How much money do the American people (NOT including the government), send to other countries to fight famin, disease, disaster, etc etc etc etc. ???

And how much, by comparison per capita, do other people, (INCLUDING government), from other countries send in emergencies, aid etc?

When was the last time someone starved to death in the US? When was the last time a homeless person was refused shelter or food when they asked for it or needed it in the US? Not in my lifetime.

FACT IS: The people of the US are some of the most giving people in the world when it comes to helping others in need. BUT, if you refuse to work and are capable, then you get what you deserve; the ghetto. I lived there once.

I was poor and homeless for a while shortly after high school. Now I own a (over) half-million dollar home in one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

So, mister moderator, why don't you leave your ******** attitude and personal attacks at the door, and start acting like a moderator for once.


i agree with you 100% you cannot compare america with aus , just look at the population , look at the economy , its like a elephant and a rat

australia is one of the most expensive country in the world , they are selfish , and do not share their resources with NZ .

not only that , they dig for uranium , when there is no need for aus to do so , they dont need that much money to run thier country , still they over exploit thier resources ,

on the other hand , USA is a great country which is also the first country to help other countries in events like earthquakes or flooding , no matter which part of the world it happens , America always comes forward to help ,

and people who work hard in the usa , can really make money , just think about how many people from diff countries go to america and make money and get rich ,
S3nd K3ys
wumingsden wrote:

@ S3nd K3ys: It is against the rules to try and bypass the word filter.


Um, yeah. Sorry. I'll fix it right now.

S3nd K3ys wrote:

Or just acting like you're retarded so you can bash the US?


There, does that clarify it? If not, try relating IGNORANCE to ACTING RETARDED and you should see where I was going with that.


Quote:

I do not enjoy being dis-respected like any other normal person.


Good. Then you see where I'm coming from. Don't disrespect me, and I won't disprespect you. Mkaythnks.

Quote:
I have a very good education, with excellent grades without even considering my circumstances.


Congratulations. Now how about educating yourself on the topic we're discussing...

Quote:
Note that I was explaining the differences between Capitalism and Communism,


By first claiming the US population was capitalist, then pinning the "don't care" lable on them.

GG at moderate moderation, moderator. Rolling Eyes
wumingsden
Quote:
GG at moderate moderation, moderator


What does "GG" mean ? I'm not good at slang Embarassed

Quote:
Um, yeah. Sorry. I'll fix it right now.


You are not sorry. You have been here a long time, I think even longer than me, so you should know the rules. You bypassed the word filter on purpose, you used a "!" mark to get away with it. Besides, I already edited your post Wink

Also note that I don't think I've disrespected you

Quote:
Now how about educating yourself on the topic we're discussing


You should listen to the Dear Mr. President song, it might bring home the facts.

Quote:
By first claiming the US population was capitalist, then pinning the "don't care" lable on them.


I don't think the whole of the US are Capitalists.

Quote:
i agree with you 100% you cannot compare america with aus , just look at the population , look at the economy , its like a elephant and a rat


Exactly, so shouldn't the US set the standards ?

Quote:
on the other hand , USA is a great country which is also the first country to help other countries in events like earthquakes or flooding , no matter which part of the world it happens , America always comes forward to help


Quote:
USA is a great country


great in what sense of the word ? As in really big or really good ? If its the latter then I disagree.

Quote:
the first country to help other countries in events like earthquakes or flooding


So they was the first to help out after the Asian Tsunami where they ? I think not, maybe the last, definitly not the first. It took Bush long enough to organise the wreckage that Hurricane Katrina (i think) brang with her.

Quote:
and people who work hard in the usa , can really make money , just think about how many people from diff countries go to america and make money and get rich


Ahhh, I wondered where that'd come in. The American Dream. It may be a saying but does it really happen Rolling Eyes
S3nd K3ys
Quote:

You are not sorry.


Again I'll ask that you quit disrespecting me. You have NO IDEA how I feel or what I'm sorry about. Period.

The fact that I bypassed the filter is true. The reason and whether I'm sorry about it is not yours to decide.

So don't put words in my mouth, so to speak.

It's disrespectful.

FYI, I've been writing "shit" like that for years. It's a habit. So don't get yourself too worked up over it.

Quote:
You should listen to the Dear Mr. President song, it might bring home the facts.


The 'facts' or the 'opinions' ??

Quote:
The American Dream. It may be a saying but does it really happen Rolling Eyes


You're so well versed in our culture and yet you don't know?? Ahh, ignorance IS bliss, isn't it? Wink
wumingsden
sorry blackheart, but due to the way this thread has turned out it has to be -locked-
blackheart
Quote:
i agree with you 100% you cannot compare america with aus , just look at the population , look at the economy , its like a elephant and a rat

As above - then why do we have the higher standard or living?

Quote:

australia is one of the most expensive country in the world , they are selfish , and do not share their resources with NZ .

Um... okay, but we certainly aren't expensive. The cost of living here is way lower than in the US.
Quote:

not only that , they dig for uranium , when there is no need for aus to do so , they dont need that much money to run thier country , still they over exploit thier resources ,

On the contrary, weren't you just talking about how our economy is weaker than America's? And maybe it's a good thing our country has enough money to provide a good standard of housing and welfare for everyone, so that everyone has a good quality of life. Not a lavish one, but a good standard.

Quote:

on the other hand , USA is a great country which is also the first country to help other countries in events like earthquakes or flooding , no matter which part of the world it happens , America always comes forward to help ,

Oh, come on. You're telling this to an Australian. I mean, our helicopters were at hurricane Katrina before any form of US support - and that was within America.
Quote:

and people who work hard in the usa , can really make money , just think about how many people from diff countries go to america and make money and get rich ,

How about how many people come to Australia? And most of the people who go to America with stars in their eyes from other countries - if they aren't already going to be successful in their own country - end up living pretty mediocre lives.

There is no denying that poverty is a huge issue in the US.
mOrpheuS
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Is this the 'Frihost Moderators bashing Americans' thread?

S3nd K3ys wrote:
So, mister moderator, why don't you leave your bullsh!t attitude and personal attacks at the door, and start acting like a moderator for once.

S3nd K3ys wrote:
I just think that if you're going to be a moderator, you should act like one instead of acting like an eight year old.

S3nd K3ys wrote:
GG at moderate moderation, moderator.


@S3nd K3ys, if you notice any moderator being biased against an American (or any other member for that matter) in their moderation activities ... you're welcome to report it to Bondings.

I don't see anyone but you making personal attacks here.

And I don't see why moderators are not entitled to a decent discussion or an opinion.


S3nd K3ys wrote:
I've been writing "****" like that for years. It's a habit. So don't get yourself too worked up over it.

I never saw an old "habit" being reason enough to overlook a rule violation.
The same rules apply ... irrespective of your habits/history.


p.s. - I'm reopening the thread, hopefully to see more mutual respect among members.
Moderators, please feel free to lock it if this gets out of hand again.
wumingsden
Yes sorry that I locked it, I didn't know whether my decision alone would be biased and so I asked Bondings and he said it should be locked. Now that its calmed down a bit though I agree that it should be open (for the time being). Its quite a good thread with long posts, - i've decided I'm gonna show the Princess how to get here. Hopefully she can enlighten us with one of her wonderful posts, (she'll also show you how to RainBox the right way Wink
lyndonray
The reason why the U.S. has so much poverty is because america is not a welfare state people. it has never really pretended to be. The closest i can think of any type of welfare-state-type policies were those in FDR's New Deal - to help pull the place out of the depression.

in capitalism you have to use what you have to get more. now some people don't have as much as others so they have to work extra hard to get more. On top of that some people have the type of background that makes it even harder to get ahead. What i mean is a poor black kid with crack-addicted family will likely have a harder time getting ahead than a poor white kid with a meth-addicted family. For example, given the not-so-explicit-zoning in cities and all, Billy-Bob's school will likely be slightly better than Tyrone's. Given situations like that and successive governments and administrations that believe in people pulling themselves up by their boot-straps, if you are given one boot and tattered strap from the get-go things will be tough for you.

It's really sad when you think about it. The congress can approve and additional 350+ Billion bucks for the war, but has been reluctant to use that money all along to really fight poverty!!

The best way to fight poverty is to give people the essential services and support they need: comprehensive health care and insurance, social services and counselling, better schools and transport, adult-education, improving police resources, etc. Spending billions of dollars on things like that is better than spending billions to get rid of saddam
Billy Hill
lyndonray wrote:
The reason why the U.S. has so much poverty


Comparing Australia to the US is only a difference of a couple of points. I think it's irresponsible for this topic to have been presented in the fashion it was, especially by a moderator(s).

I also see a clear tendancy of certain moderators here against the US and it's citizens. Some times I wonder about the methods used by Bondings in selecting moderators.

BTW, sure didn't take K3ys long to get back into controversial mode, did it? Wink
wumingsden
Billy Hill wrote:
lyndonray wrote:
The reason why the U.S. has so much poverty


Comparing Australia to the US is only a difference of a couple of points. I think it's irresponsible for this topic to have been presented in the fashion it was, especially by a moderator(s).

I also see a clear tendancy of certain moderators here against the US and it's citizens. Some times I wonder about the methods used by Bondings in selecting moderators.

BTW, sure didn't take K3ys long to get back into controversial mode, did it? Wink


Quote:
especially by a moderator(s)

Note that before us Moderators were Moderators we were usual registered members. Just because we work here doesn't mean that we cannot have our own opinions, nor do we have to represent them in a certain way. I am only come to my senses about this a couple of days ago as I'm also trying to be "professional". Thanks for the advice if your reading this.

Quote:
I also see a clear tendancy of certain moderators here against the US and it's citizens.


Sorry, are you looking through mist ? Do you mind showing us another example of a moderator(s) against the US ? Note that I am not against the US in general, just Bush.

Quote:
Some times I wonder about the methods used by Bondings in selecting moderators.


It is up to Bondings

Quote:
BTW, sure didn't take K3ys long to get back into controversial mode, did it? Wink


So its ok for a member to have opinions but not moderators, now I see (note that I'm trying to be sarcastic)
Billy Hill
wumingsden wrote:

Note that before us Moderators were Moderators we were usual registered members. Just because we work here doesn't mean that we cannot have our own opinions, nor do we have to represent them in a certain way.


I understand you were once a user. Now you're not. You're supposed to be a responsible, impartial agent for Frihost.

Showing clear tendancies against the US (or anyone for that matter) is completely disrespectful and should not be allowed by moderators. Period.

If you wanted to keep voicing your (often misguided) opinions, you should not have accepted the offer to moderate.

I can imagine the uproar if K3ys were allowed to be a moderator. Rolling Eyes
wumingsden
Billy Hill wrote:
wumingsden wrote:

Note that before us Moderators were Moderators we were usual registered members. Just because we work here doesn't mean that we cannot have our own opinions, nor do we have to represent them in a certain way.


I understand you were once a user. Now you're not. You're supposed to be a responsible, impartial agent for Frihost.

Showing clear tendancies against the US (or anyone for that matter) is completely disrespectful and should not be allowed by moderators. Period.

If you wanted to keep voicing your (often misguided) opinions, you should not have accepted the offer to moderate.

I can imagine the uproar if K3ys were allowed to be a moderator. Rolling Eyes


Maybe I should make myself a tad bit clearer by telling you a bit of a story.
Today I had a chat with other members of staff regarding this thread. I apologised for my part in this thread and the reply I got was something like "moderators are allowed their own opinions. Just because your part of the staff doesn't mean you cannot express yourself" - note that this is not the exact quote; meaning that I'm not an "impartial agent for Frihost" but a person who has their own opinions. I am allowed to express myself in the way that I have done as I have not stated that these are the views of FriHost, but my own.

Quote:
Showing clear tendancies against the US (or anyone for that matter) is completely disrespectful and should not be allowed by moderators. Period.


I do not limit myself to the US, but to all people that think problems can be solved by war. In an earlier post you may have noticed this:


wumingsden wrote:
Note that I am not against the US in general, just Bush.


This conversation is about the US and Australia, which is why I didn't bring Blair into this conversation.

Also note that showing clear tendancies towards certain things is needed in my opinion. For instance if people didn't show "clear tendancies" on the matter of pedophilia, murderers, etc, then it would be ok in society's opinion. Let me also state again that although Moderators work for FriHost they are there own people so can have their own opinions.

Quote:
If you wanted to keep voicing your (often misguided) opinions, you should not have accepted the offer to moderate.


All opinions are misguided, if they wasn't then they'd be certain facts, wouldn't they ? In a certain conversation there are always going to be misguided opinions somewhere along the line. I also will keep voicing my own opinions, this is what makes a person. I will not "quit" or be "sacked" because of my opinions, that is what has got me here in the first place.
A moderator has numerous jobs, the main one being to enforce the rules where broken, i have not broken any.

Quote:
I can imagine the uproar if K3ys were allowed to be a moderator. Rolling Eyes


It is the moderators/admins and bondings job to consider members to join the staff. When there is a new member of staff needed is when certain members will be discussed. A person who breaks the rules less often has more of a chance to work here - note that quantity of posts aren't consided.

If you have a problem with the way I act then please to not hesitate to contact Bondings, or if you'd like to talk about the "issues" that you may have with me then simply PM me, a link is also in my Sig for easy access.
blackheart
Billy Hill wrote:
lyndonray wrote:
The reason why the U.S. has so much poverty


Comparing Australia to the US is only a difference of a couple of points. I think it's irresponsible for this topic to have been presented in the fashion it was, especially by a moderator(s).

I also see a clear tendancy of certain moderators here against the US and it's citizens. Some times I wonder about the methods used by Bondings in selecting moderators.

BTW, sure didn't take K3ys long to get back into controversial mode, did it? Wink


I'm not a big supporter of the US, and I'll admit it. For the most part the American people are a good people, just like for the most part the Australian people are a good people, and for the most part the Canadian people are a good people, etc.

I just don't agree with the government, and I don't agree with the system. I don't like the massive gap between the haves and have-nots, and I don't like how the have-nots are left to rot by the town. (Towns that have often originally formed around old mines or factories that have now folded, and left the area void of adequate employment).
Until the myth of the “greatest country in the world” is dropped how can things ever be improved, you need to acknowledge a problem before it can be fixed. People do not die in the streets for want of shelter and healthcare in the greatest country in the world.
I mean, in Australia a basic living-standard is considered a fundamental right.

At least as of 2005, the minimum wage in Australia was $12.75 AUD ($9 US Dollars), and in America the Federal minimum wage was $5.15. $5.15 is not a living wage. A family with two children would be $5000 USD a year below the poverty line on this wage.

And Australia isn't like the US at all. I mean, to a certain extent Howard kisses Bush's butt, but that doesn't make us like America, it's just means our PM is interested in keeping in Bush's good books politically.
We're one heck of alot more like Canada - in fact in many business and politics classes outside of Australia, we're grouped with Canada in the curiculum/text.
We are both countries that provide a safety net for our less-fortunate, and encourage those without education to become educated, no matter their age or social standing. We provide just enough money to pay the bills, buy food and secure housing through housing commission (with greatly subsidised rates) for people who are in-between or unable to obtain jobs. For them and their family. No-one is ever left on the street. (Well, I can't really say that as some 'crat probably stuffed up somewhere once, but the numbers are so low they wouldn't make a point 0001 of a percentile).

Where I'm coming from with all of this is that much of the hardship so many individuals and families go through in the states is over what would be considered fundamental rights here in Australia.
If you were inbetween jobs, it would be considered your right to receive enough money to pay the bills as stated above. The same if you were a single parent and needed to take time off work to study in order to obtain a better job - and this would be viewed as strengthening the work force. If you literally can't get a job for what-ever reason, as in seriously because of severe disability etc., the you get welfare and an allowance at slightly more than the cost of living, so you can do at least something with your life. You can get dissability pentions, single parents allowances, etc, etc. No-one should need to fear not having housing and food unless they themselves spend their money innapropriately - i.e. on drugs and/or alcohol.
Heck, you can even get a firt home buyers grant to buy your first house. I'm not 100% but I think it's $7000. Not much comparitively, but enough to start you off on your mortgage payments.
Yes, people have and do exploit all of this, and I myself grumble at how much of my family's taxes go into paying for people who can't be bothered working and dodge the system - but at least it means everyone is living comfortably. Including the majority that actually need welfare.

(I believe we are instating welfare for work now, but within reason in terms of ability/times that suit if you have children, etc)

I could never live anywhere where I knew people were suffering.

(I won't go into many of the members comments/views on moderation in this thread hugely, as they have already been dealt with. We do not have to be impartial opinionwise, as long as we represent our opinions as our opinions and not that of friHost or the other team members.)
(Part of our job, indirectly, as I have interpreted it, is to keep discussion up and interesting on the boards. And I do not believe it wold be very interesting if I was not able to agree or diagree with anything, or state my opinion as it stands.)
Devil
This is really crazy , you people comparing australia with usa ?

comeon just look at the number of people in the usa , australia is a big country but more then half their country is wild life , yeah they have better standards of living , but very expensive one ,

on the other hand usa is a open country , anyone in the world can go in the usa and work there and make a living ,

but in australia if ur not white ,u will have a very hard time ,

the usa supports many countries with funds , how many countries depend on aus ?

i will repeat this again , like i have done many times in the past ,

Aus is the most selfish and racial country in the world

and about the mods taking part in this discussion ?
'i think they have the equal rights like any other member ,

BRING IT ON ! Razz
blackheart
Devil wrote:
This is really crazy , you people comparing australia with usa ?

comeon just look at the number of people in the usa , australia is a big country but more then half their country is wild life , yeah they have better standards of living , but very expensive one ,


The cost of living in the USA is more than the cost of living in Australia.

America could afford the fix the massive deficit in it's people with a safety net similar to that of Canada and Australia's, if it's politicians utilised the money thrown into defence and the like. Which isn't needed to any where near the extent to which it is being funded, and masses of people are being led to believe.

We do have a smaller population, but relatively America has the money. Their economy is 10 fold ours.

Quote:

on the other hand usa is a open country , anyone in the world can go in the usa and work there and make a living ,

but in australia if ur not white ,u will have a very hard time ,


This is the farthest thing from the truth it's ridiculous. Asian, caucasian, negro, hispanic, what-ever - it doesn't make a difference. At my school - which is a private girls school - we have people from every denomination, all studying together, with absolutely no racial discrimination.
I mean, it's actually the opposite, we are a very racially tolerant people. I have never heard of anyone's education or work opportunities being limited by race... I mean, Melbourne's mayor is Asian! You would be WAY more likely to be sacked for being racially discriminative than for your race. In fact, you could sue your employer if he dismissed you based on race.
Seriously, there may be tiny pockets of Oz (as in a small area - one suburb or even just a street) with issues racially - ie. Cronulla beach in Sydney - but this is no different to any other country in the world. In many cases, this is actually a better standard.

Quote:

the usa supports many countries with funds , how many countries depend on aus ?


Australia provides more AID and financial support to other countries per capita than America does:
http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi

Quote:


i will repeat this again , like i have done many times in the past ,

Aus is the most selfish and racial country in the world


As above. Have you ever actually been here? Because you certainly don't have a realistic interpretation of our culture.
As above, we are actually ranked 4th in the world for per capita AID and international financial support.
Devil
i am talking about the amount of money america spends , not per capita

if u earn 10$ and u give out 5$
and america earns 100 and give out 20$

then i would still say america gives out more ,cuz the amount is more ,

plus aus being racist , dont even get me started on that , every time we have seen this in cricket , and i had some freinds sydney who also told me ,that workers from asian countries are mocked by AUz whites .

u wont see hate crimes as some one killing you , but they do pass jokes on you or something ,

and in cricket how many times Aus cricketers have done this , srilanka ,india, and even southafrica ,

if u say there is no racial discrimanation ,then ur in denial ,

i turned down a offer to work in AUS , instead now i am working in the middle east ,

AUS is The lucky country that became the selfish country

http://www.cricket-online.org/news.php?sid=4792
http://www.greenpeace.org.au/archives/earthsummit/media_detail.php?site_id=47&news_id=797
blackheart
Devil wrote:
i am talking about the amount of money america spends , not per capita

if u earn 10$ and u give out 5$
and america earns 100 and give out 20$

then i would still say america gives out more ,cuz the amount is more ,


In black and white, yes, America does give more. But a country can't give more than it has - and there is absolutely no logic in saying Australia is selfish. I am actually confused by the train of thought there.
Quote:

plus aus being racist , dont even get me started on that , every time we have seen this in cricket , and i had some freinds sydney who also told me ,that workers from asian countries are mocked by AUz whites .

u wont see hate crimes as some one killing you , but they do pass jokes on you or something ,

and in cricket how many times Aus cricketers have done this , srilanka ,india, and even southafrica ,

if u say there is no racial discrimanation ,then ur in denial ,

i turned down a offer to work in AUS , instead now i am working in the middle east ,

AUS is The lucky country that became the selfish country

http://www.cricket-online.org/news.php?sid=4792
http://www.greenpeace.org.au/archives/earthsummit/media_detail.php?site_id=47&news_id=797


And of course there is some racism, but there is some racism in every country. When I went to the middle east, some people made fun of us for being white and even called my mother a slut. (We were dressed very appropriately in long skirts, loose, high-collared shirts and even head scarves).
This doesn't make all the middle eastern countries disgusting places full of racists and bad selfish people - it just means like everywhere else it has some racist people and some bad/mis-guided people.
Just the same as a couple of terrorists who happen to be Muslim don't mean that all Muslims are terrorists. Just the same as just because one Indian guy raped/molested a 16 year old white Australian girl while visiting my home city for the Commonwealth games, doesn't mean all Indian men are disgusting bad people.

I am sorry about the cricketers, but I can't imagine they would constantly insult people. Their one or two comments were wrong, but it would be stupid to say they represent an entire country.
mephisto73
Its all about neoliberal economics. Read some Chomsky. He's pinned it down pretty well. Today it's about various degrees of corporate wellfare, while we are told that people should not be subject to wellfare.

It is state capitalism under the guise of market capitalism.
diverden
Thanks to lobbyist, and corporate friendly Republicans whose philosphy is to put the foxes in charge of the hen house while holding up a sign that says trust us. The tac cut and the energy bill are perfect examples, supposedly the good times roll downhill but there is only one thing that seems to run downhill and it comes out of a bulls butt. The tax cut gave the top 2% of wage earners the largest tax break under the premise that if they bought another summer house or another mercedes, that it would stimulate the economy! The stock market is doing great but I can't seem to find the extra money to invest in the stock market when gas is 3 bucks a gallon, health care is going up and my job might be outsourced to child laborers next year. I think we should outsource the CEO's, the executive and legislative branches, and see what happens when it becomes a government of, by and for the people again.
amirkpe
SOLUTION : COMMUNISM !!!Very Happy
Soulfire
I believe in social Darwinism. The best of society will survive. Most of the time, people who are poor get themselves into the situation. Not to sound harsh or mean, but it's usually because they are unwilling to work and just seek to milk the government of all it's money.

There is a safety net. It's called welfare, and it's a safety net that has been torn apart and ripped to shreds by the people it was meant to help. Once these people get on that money, they get addicted to it, and it keeps them from working.

It's not the governments responsibility to give people the initiative to work, that's an individual thing. The government can also not be blamed for most poverty.
Vrythramax
it seems I entered this topic late and missed some fun. It is very disheartening to hear how some of the staff view the US publicly, I agree, just because you are a moderator does not mean that you are not entitled to an opinion, but the vehemence most of you are using could be toned down. Someone mentioned Gonzo in all this, it may be good for all of us to take a step away from the keyboard at times before typing a response...no matter if the point your making is valid or not. I have never felt the need to bash anyone's country in any way while posting here. It's very easy to point a finger at another life style differant than the one you grew up with and call it wrong.

Back on the original topic....I think the poverty situation in the US is mainly due to the fact that there is no money to be made in providing for the poor and homeless. The US is dominated by big business and they in turn control most (if not all) of the politicians. If you find a cure for disease in this country and it can be sold for profit, it's going to see the light of day...if it can't turn a profit, more than likely you will never hear about it. This is an extremely unfortunate result of our chosen way of living, and as long as the masses want the current lifestyle things will never change.

I also do not agree with my [current] government, but 2 things remain facts...1) the current government is only temporary, this will change in time (we all can only hope the next one will be better), 2) I can't think of any place I could live and enjoy the same rights and freedoms I now enjoy in the US.

off my soapbox now...flame as you wish.
blackheart
Vrythramax wrote:
it seems I entered this topic late and missed some fun. It is very disheartening to hear how some of the staff view the US publicly, I agree, just because you are a moderator does not mean that you are not entitled to an opinion, but the vehemence most of you are using could be toned down. Someone mentioned Gonzo in all this, it may be good for all of us to take a step away from the keyboard at times before typing a response...no matter if the point your making is valid or not. I have never felt the need to bash anyone's country in any way while posting here. It's very easy to point a finger at another life style differant than the one you grew up with and call it wrong.

Back on the original topic....I think the poverty situation in the US is mainly due to the fact that there is no money to be made in providing for the poor and homeless. The US is dominated by big business and they in turn control most (if not all) of the politicians. If you find a cure for disease in this country and it can be sold for profit, it's going to see the light of day...if it can't turn a profit, more than likely you will never hear about it. This is an extremely unfortunate result of our chosen way of living, and as long as the masses want the current lifestyle things will never change.

I also do not agree with my [current] government, but 2 things remain facts...1) the current government is only temporary, this will change in time (we all can only hope the next one will be better), 2) I can't think of any place I could live and enjoy the same rights and freedoms I now enjoy in the US.

off my soapbox now...flame as you wish.


Although I can personally think of quite a few countries where rights and freedoms are about the same, there's nothing in what you've said for anyone to flame/rebut back on. I even agree with most of it as I read it. Wink
Vrythramax
@blackheart

maybe I could have worded the last part better...there very well may be other places that could afford me the same freedoms, I simply don't know of them and since I was born here, I fall into the same trap of "going with what I know".
sistahgeek
Why'd you feel the need to equate the ghetto with where capable people who refuse to work live? There are just as many people like that living in trailer parks and dilapidated houses outside the city limits, and in very rural areas.

Why single out the ghetto?

Could a racial stereotype - maybe that you didn't even know you believed - be raising its head? Think about it...

Just what group of people are most associated with living in the ghetto?

Just what group of people have historically been stereotyped as being lazy and wanting everything for nothing?

Why the automatic connection between lack of work ethic and the ghetto?

Why couldn't you just say that capable people who refuse to work deserve to be POOR, period?

Think about it.

S3nd K3ys wrote:

FACT IS: The people of the US are some of the most giving people in the world when it comes to helping others in need. BUT, if you refuse to work and are capable, then you get what you deserve; the ghetto. I lived there once.
blackheart
Vrythramax wrote:
@blackheart

maybe I could have worded the last part better...there very well may be other places that could afford me the same freedoms, I simply don't know of them and since I was born here, I fall into the same trap of "going with what I know".


No, it was just my interpretation, I read it again and the line made sense.
What I basically meant was I understand your perspective, etc - and agreed with it (for the most part).
Including that I was a bit brash, and my wording/phrasing could have been toned down. Wink
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