If you dont knew who is mohammad you can kenw bay viviting this link
http://www.islamway.com/mohammad/
http://www.islamway.com/mohammad/
who is mohammad? the prophete of islam
Thanks that's really good i think the sound is great and the proverbs are really good...I wish i were borned in his age and i saw him....Thanks,thanks again...
I know who Mohammed is and I have a lot of respect for him, but I don't know who the entity that dictated the Quran to him is. I think it is a demon, not the being that it claims to be. It's words are full of anger like a demon's.
I haven't seen an even vaguely coherent argument from a Muslim that it wasn't a demon. Clearly Muslims have given this possibilty no consideration, and thus would easily be fooled by such a deception.
I haven't seen an even vaguely coherent argument from a Muslim that it wasn't a demon. Clearly Muslims have given this possibilty no consideration, and thus would easily be fooled by such a deception.
HI
Let this article say if mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam"was saying the truth or not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
miracles wich Allah give to mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam" are a lot. I can say you an other. but proofs of this one are in arabic speetch :
Allah has said to mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam" that the the blockade of irak will exist .take the proofs : ( if you are looking for the truth you must find a good moslem to explain to you the contenant of this audio file ):
http://media.islamway.com/lessons/hasan//003-7esarAl3erak.rm
if you knew Qoran from non muslum, i'll say to you that this is the occasion to knew waht is coran? and what is written in? from muslums .
What is the Qur’aan
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10197&dgn=4&ln=eng
Translation of the sense of the Koran. (I say : « sense of the Koran » because Koran is written in arabic language, and translation is not Koran)
http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=Quran&iw_a=view&id=206
and you can knew what say quran and muslums about Jesus Christ
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10469&dgn=4&ln=eng
I ask Allah to guide as, all, toward the paradise,
HI
Let this article say if mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam"was saying the truth or not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
miracles wich Allah give to mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam" are a lot. I can say you an other. but proofs of this one are in arabic speetch :
Allah has said to mohammad "salla Allah alayhi wa sallam" that the the blockade of irak will exist .take the proofs : ( if you are looking for the truth you must find a good moslem to explain to you the contenant of this audio file ):
http://media.islamway.com/lessons/hasan//003-7esarAl3erak.rm
if you knew Qoran from non muslum, i'll say to you that this is the occasion to knew waht is coran? and what is written in? from muslums .
What is the Qur’aan
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10197&dgn=4&ln=eng
Translation of the sense of the Koran. (I say : « sense of the Koran » because Koran is written in arabic language, and translation is not Koran)
http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=Quran&iw_a=view&id=206
and you can knew what say quran and muslums about Jesus Christ
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10469&dgn=4&ln=eng
I ask Allah to guide as, all, toward the paradise,
HI
You are brainwashed, I've challanged you repeatedly about the entity who spooke to Mohammed, and all you can talk about is Mohammed's truthfulness. Mohammed was sincerely and truthfully decieved by a demon. Mohammed thought it was an archangel and he was an innocent man, but the Quran is the words of a demon.
and what you say about the fish in the first link?
its a brainwashed fish?
its a brainwashed fish?
Only if it can't answer a question repeatedly put to it but instead changes the subject and answers some other question.
| dahan wrote: |
| and what you say about the fish in the first link?
its a brainwashed fish? |
Are you compairing human's brain with brain of fish?
HI
I want to explain that this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
is a proof that Mohammad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam' is really the prophet of Allah. And that this fish is a proof that Allh had passed his message to humanity through mohammad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam'. Allah has Inspired The Koran To mohammad to guide humains beings to his way. and to answer his demand :
the Koran is Allah's speech. his passed it to momahmmad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam'.
HI
I want to explain that this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
is a proof that Mohammad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam' is really the prophet of Allah. And that this fish is a proof that Allh had passed his message to humanity through mohammad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam'. Allah has Inspired The Koran To mohammad to guide humains beings to his way. and to answer his demand :
the Koran is Allah's speech. his passed it to momahmmad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam'.
HI
| dahan wrote: |
| the Koran is Allah's speech. his passed it to momahmmad 'Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam'.
|
No, it is supposedly the words of the archangel Jibriel (Gabriel). But it doesn't sound like an angel at all, it sounds like an angry conservative Christian. I think that both are demonic religions (Islam & Evangelical Christianity). These are the only two religions on the planet that assert that anyone who doesn't believe in their religion is going too Hell. Sunni and Shia even think that all members of the opposing sect are going too Hell.
Lol!! please.. what religion are you anyway i would like to know, i am a Muslim and really proud... but i wanna know ur religion please.
I am a theist. I practice Christianity/Judaism/Taoism/Hinduism/Buddhism/Lamaism/Shamanism/Zen.
WTF!!! u practice all them as a religion?
All of those religions contain a lot of divine wisdom.
Here are the religions that I don't practice: Islam, Wicca, Satanism, Voodoo, Santoria and conservative Christianity.
Here are the religions that I don't practice: Islam, Wicca, Satanism, Voodoo, Santoria and conservative Christianity.
Okay, I went to www.dictionary.com and looked up Thiest and this is what came up..
Thiest: one who believes in the existence of a god or gods.
whats the difference between Islam and that? we believe in 1 god..
now ur saying that ur god/gods cant send 1 person down to earth and show the rest of humanity the true religion? If, No....
UR FKN CRAZY!!
calling muhammed (saws) a fraud?? pahleaze man... do ur research... and ur full going off at Christians doing this and that and ur practising christianity??
Thiest: one who believes in the existence of a god or gods.
whats the difference between Islam and that? we believe in 1 god..
now ur saying that ur god/gods cant send 1 person down to earth and show the rest of humanity the true religion? If, No....
UR FKN CRAZY!!
calling muhammed (saws) a fraud?? pahleaze man... do ur research... and ur full going off at Christians doing this and that and ur practising christianity??
You don't practice Islam(thre fastest growing religion in the world) just because you think that prophet Muhammed (saws) was a fraud, a faker?????? A person that was very patient, very kind and most important a PERSON SENT BY GOD TO SPREAD A WORD, Sent by my and ur god, a person sent from them U CALL A FRAUD... dude i got 1 thing to say to u..
you aint got no soul !!
you aint got no soul !!
| RaMo wrote: |
| whats the difference between Islam and that? we believe in 1 god..
|
Conservative Christianity is also a monotheistic religion. Saying that you believe in monotheism hardly precludes it from being deluded demon worship. Especially when your holy scriptures constantly refer to God’s point of view as, “We and Us”.
| RaMo wrote: |
| now ur saying that ur god/gods cant send 1 person down to earth and show the rest of humanity the true religion?
|
I can’t make sense of your choppy English. There is no my vs. your God, there is only one God, just correct vs. flawed understandings of Him.
| RaMo wrote: |
| If, No....
UR FKN CRAZY!! |
I couldn’t tell you if I’m crazy or not by your standards, I couldn’t understand the question.
| RaMo wrote: |
| calling muhammed (saws) a fraud?? pahleaze man... do ur research...
|
I have never said anything derogatory about Mohammed. This is part of Islamic brainwashing, no matter how much express respect for Mohammed but total distrust of the entity that approached him, Muslims can’t get their minds around this and constantly shift the subject away from the entity and try to turn it back on Mohammed. I have lots of good things to say about Mohammed and few bad things, but one of those bad things is that he was illiterate and lacked any spiritual education in order to discern between good and evil entities.
I have done my research very thoroughly, I read the Quran and Hadiths for four years. I was extremely impressed with some sections of some Hadiths. I was never the slightest bit impressed with anything I read in the Quran. It is a book hate and condemnation, just like conservative Christianity.
| RaMo wrote: |
| and ur full going off at Christians doing this and that and ur practising christianity??
|
I practice liberal Christianity which is loving and compassionate. I do not practice conservative Christianity, which is angry, bigoted and dogmatic, just like Islam.
HI
if you bielive in one god you must bielive that this God is Wise. As that how to believe that this God wants that you adore him with religions that represents contradictory belief!!!.
the true path is islam path .you can revist link in over to knew that I say the truth.
I ask Allah to guide us to the right way : his way.
HI
if you bielive in one god you must bielive that this God is Wise. As that how to believe that this God wants that you adore him with religions that represents contradictory belief!!!.
the true path is islam path .you can revist link in over to knew that I say the truth.
I ask Allah to guide us to the right way : his way.
HI
| RaMo wrote: |
| You don't practice Islam(thre fastest growing religion in the world)
|
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world because of conversion, it is only the fastest growing religion because of population growth. Every other impoverished culture on the planet has been able to slow down their once huge population growth. The “population bomb” has been averted. Only the Islamic countries are still so backwards as to have an unabated huge population growth.
The expansion of Islam is entirely a product of the primitive state of Islamic countries. It is not the result of Islam being an appealing and compelling religion to any significant numbers of people of any other religion. Muslims tell each other this lie, a half truth is always a lie, and never tell each other the full truth. It is just one of many examples where Muslims deceive each other and have been deceived by the entity that dictated the Quran.
| dahan wrote: |
| if you bielive in one god you must bielive that this God is Wise. As that how to believe that this God wants that you adore him with religions that represents contradictory belief!!!.
|
Muslims and conservative Christians hugely exaggerate difference to fabricate contradictions. There are no significant contradictions. The main contradictions in religions are between the angry, hateful, bigoted religions that say that they are the only way, and the loving and good religions that all recognize each other and embrace the understanding that they all believe in the same God.
HI
what means the existance of theses words: Allah(azza wa jalla) and Mohammad (Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam ) On this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
HI
what means the existance of theses words: Allah(azza wa jalla) and Mohammad (Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam ) On this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
HI
Here is a counter example to the Quranic entity. Joan of Arc heard the archangel Michael’s voice, but if you ask Catholics how they know that this was in fact an angel and not a demon, they give extremely detailed answers. Joan was put on trial by the English who insisted that she must be convicted of witchcraft and die. Even under intense cross examination by an extremely hostile ecclesiastical court, the case they came up with was so weak that even the British were totally unconvinced by it.
In Catholicism there are extremely detailed tests that can be put too an entity to accurately determine whether it is angelic or demonic. When the Quranic entity is put to these tests it rapidly fails.
Mohammed himself suspected as much, he was utterly terrified of the entity after his first encounter with it. If Mohammed had had a spiritual education he would never have been deceived by his family and Christian cousin, who was nothing more than a literate layman with no spiritual education either. But Mohammed accepted his Christian cousin as a spiritual authority on the matter because that was the best he could find. If not for this bad advice, Mohammed would have concluded on his own that the entity was a demon.
In Catholicism there are extremely detailed tests that can be put too an entity to accurately determine whether it is angelic or demonic. When the Quranic entity is put to these tests it rapidly fails.
Mohammed himself suspected as much, he was utterly terrified of the entity after his first encounter with it. If Mohammed had had a spiritual education he would never have been deceived by his family and Christian cousin, who was nothing more than a literate layman with no spiritual education either. But Mohammed accepted his Christian cousin as a spiritual authority on the matter because that was the best he could find. If not for this bad advice, Mohammed would have concluded on his own that the entity was a demon.
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u mite as well say that god's the demon here.. since he(god) sent muhammed(saws) down to earth.... Jesus was a Prophet as well.... why not as well say that Mary was interviewed by the demon and he sed to her that shes gonna be pregnant?? since angel gabriel visited Muhammed(saws) as well and ur saying he was visited by the demon??
My soucre was a muslim imam. Where did he go wrong on the details of Mohammed's life? You disagree with my interpretation, not the facts of his life, or it is you who needs to go back and do some more studying.
more studying where? k id like to know where do you pray to ur god? at home? church? where?
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| My soucre was a muslim imam. Where did he go wrong on the details of Mohammed's life? You disagree with my interpretation, not the facts of his life, or it is you who needs to go back and do some more studying. |
So ur saying that a Muslim Imam Has Called Muhammed(saws) a Hoax!!!! a faker?? a normal person who thought her was approached by the angel gabriel instead of that a demon??
| RaMo wrote: |
| u mite as well say that god's the demon here.. since he(god) sent muhammed(saws) down to earth....
|
How is calling the Quranic entity a demon equivalent to calling God a demon? That makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever.
Why do you perpetually change the topic to Mohammed? You simply can’t address the subject of the Quranic entity. Cults brainwash people’s mind, you are so brainwashed about the subject of the Quranic entity that you can’t even address the issue and must perpetually twist my statements into an attack on Mohammed. Mohammed was a great man, as I’ve said repeatedly. But you are brainwashed so you simply cannot accept these statements must turn my every criticism of the Quranic entity into an attack on Mohammed. You need cult deprogramming.
| RaMo wrote: |
| Jesus was a Prophet as well.... why not as well say that Mary was interviewed by the demon and he sed to her that shes gonna be pregnant?? since angel gabriel visited Muhammed(saws) as well and ur saying he was visited by the demon??
|
Because that really was the archangel Gabriel. Mohammed was approached by an imposter, a demon claiming to be an angel.
But at least you are finally starting, very slowly, to turn your mind to my actual statements, and address your attention to the Quranic entity. Even if you’ve still slaughtered my asserting by claiming that I assert Gabriel is a demon. How many different misinterpretations of simple statement can you pack in? you qare so brainwashed that if your respond more, I’m sure that you will still not address my statements as I have stated them.
| RaMo wrote: |
| So ur saying that a Muslim Imam Has Called Muhammed(saws) a Hoax!!!! a faker?? a normal person who thought her was approached by the angel gabriel instead of that a demon?? |
You are incredibly stupid, how many times do I have to deny this before it will sink in?
Mohammed was not a hoax. I have never said anything derogatory about Mohammed. The entity that deceived him was a hoax.
It is apparent impossible for a brainwashed mind to understand this statement. Muslims all act the same way in this regard, totally unable to comprehend a simple statement, and incapable of addressing the statement. They will argue and aruge and never once address this statement. This kind of brainwashing is clear proof of demonic influences.
LOL
You are incapable of rationally defending your religion. Only demonic religions are like that. Divine religion don't brainwash people, so they can talk about their religion rationally.
HI
I dont understant why mike1reynolds dont want to answer to this question?
what means the existance of theses words: Allah(azza wa jalla) and Mohammad (Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam ) On this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
perhaps he dont want to accept the the truth : Mohammad is the prophet of Allah for All Humain beings
Or HE/She is incapable of rationally defending his religion. Only demonic religions are like that. Divine religion don't brainwash people, so they can talk about their religion rationally.
HI
I dont understant why mike1reynolds dont want to answer to this question?
what means the existance of theses words: Allah(azza wa jalla) and Mohammad (Salla Allah alayhi wa sallam ) On this fish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1700465,00.html#article_continue
perhaps he dont want to accept the the truth : Mohammad is the prophet of Allah for All Humain beings
Or HE/She is incapable of rationally defending his religion. Only demonic religions are like that. Divine religion don't brainwash people, so they can talk about their religion rationally.
HI
It doesn't look even vaguely like Arabic script to me. It's like the man in the moon, it barely looks like a face at all, but the mind tries to find a pattern. In China it is the mouse in the moon. If you zoom in you can't even vaguely see either imagie on the moon.
You can't defend the assertion that the Quran was written by an angel. If you hear voices in your head, do you just automatically assume that the voices are telling you the truth? Muslims do! And how do they prove this, with a fish! Islam is a scary religion, even more brainwashed than conservative Christianity.
You can't defend the assertion that the Quran was written by an angel. If you hear voices in your head, do you just automatically assume that the voices are telling you the truth? Muslims do! And how do they prove this, with a fish! Islam is a scary religion, even more brainwashed than conservative Christianity.
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
|
You can't defend the assertion that the Quran was written by an angel. If you hear voices in your head, do you just automatically assume that the voices are telling you the truth? Muslims do! And how do they prove this, with a fish! |
Methinks I'll stay out of this one for a while.
Nice point, mike.
Welcome back, S3nd K3ys! Long time no see?
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Welcome back, S3nd K3ys! Long time no see? |
Thanks. Lost track of time for a while.
They’ve been wondering about you on the World News forum, Where did S3nd K3ys go?
It is good to be missed!
It is good to be missed!
I can get you millions of millions of pictures of islamic miracles and u still wont believe so theres no point showing you. You have an excuse for everything.. look at this picture ill say u ll be like "Nah, Thats just demonic activity" or something like that.. ur just tooo obsessed with demons (as if u worship him)..
HI
k im a new 2 da forum and im muslim k i just wanna say 2 mike look man what ramo said is right we can show millions of muslim miricals and u still wont belive
secondly the quran is full of peace as i will quote u verse:Qur'an:
[60:8]
"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. "
"If they withdraw from you and fight you not, but (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God alloweth no way for you (to war against them)" (4:90).
"If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61).
while the bible quotes: BIBLE:
"And the Lord said, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the elderly men who [were] before the house.
9:7 And he said to them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Ezek. 9:5-7
ok thats 1 verse from each u tell me what sounds server and i would lik 2 let u no that the word ISLAM means peace and im sowi 2 say but any1
who is willing to follow the media and not research truth sowi 2 say but really pathetic look the word JIHAD when heared sounds like war the meaning is struggel ok hears the site ok that i quoted from and thats only 1 proof
http://www.submission.org/god-bible.html
im out
k im a new 2 da forum and im muslim k i just wanna say 2 mike look man what ramo said is right we can show millions of muslim miricals and u still wont belive
secondly the quran is full of peace as i will quote u verse:Qur'an:
[60:8]
"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. "
"If they withdraw from you and fight you not, but (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God alloweth no way for you (to war against them)" (4:90).
"If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61).
while the bible quotes: BIBLE:
"And the Lord said, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the elderly men who [were] before the house.
9:7 And he said to them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Ezek. 9:5-7
ok thats 1 verse from each u tell me what sounds server and i would lik 2 let u no that the word ISLAM means peace and im sowi 2 say but any1
who is willing to follow the media and not research truth sowi 2 say but really pathetic look the word JIHAD when heared sounds like war the meaning is struggel ok hears the site ok that i quoted from and thats only 1 proof
http://www.submission.org/god-bible.html
im out
| death_dealer wrote: |
| im a new 2 da forum and im muslim k i just wanna say 2 mike look man what ramo said is right we can show millions of muslim miricals and u still wont belive
|
The Devil can do mighty deeds too. Haven’t you ever heard this? As I’ve asked over and over and over, how do you know that the Quranic entity and the miracles it did were from Allah and not Shaitan?
Why is it impossible for a Muslim to even address this question?
Clearly there is a short-circuit in the minds of all Muslims. This kind of total inability to respond can only be the result of brain-washing. Most Christians, especially conservative Christians, are pretty brain-washed, but I have never personally encountered this degree of extreme level of brainwashing in Christians. I’ve never met a Christian that was so brainwashed that they couldn’t answer a simple question.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| "GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable." |
| death_dealer wrote: |
| "If they withdraw from you and fight you not, but (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God alloweth no way for you (to war against them)" (4:90).
"If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61). |
Here is another verse from the Quran that encourages violence indirectly through encouraging judgment and misunderstanding. If you encourage someone to judge and misunderstand a group, then you are also encourage that person to be violent towards that group:
| Qur’an wrote: |
| Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their own selves, even after the truth has become manifest into them. But Forgive and overlook, till Allah brings his Command. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things. (2:109) |
So if the truth was manifest to them then Christians and Jews have no right to disbelieve. It asserts that they can’t possibly sincerely disbelieve, the only possible motive for disbelief is jealousy. So what are Christians and Jews jealous of? The implication is that they are jealous of a Muslim’s connection with Allah. If someone is not in rebellion against Allah, and they see a better way, then they will drop their old way and adopt the better way. The only way that someone can be jealous in this regard is if they are in league with Shaitan. So this verse is trying to get Muslims to view Christians and Jews in the same light as Shaitan worshipers. For what other reason could someone who has clearly seen be jealous and pretend to disbelieve, if not that they are evil?
So then after implying that many Christians and Jews are extremely evil people, it says that you must forgive them. It is clearly dishonest here, the statement right before was trying to drum up hate, leaving no room for understanding and tolerance. It is saying, “You should forgive those horrible evil people.” It makes no allowance for the likelihood that anyone could sincerely disbelieve in the Quran.
This kind of incitement to judge harshly non-Muslims as evil has such a pervasive effect on Islam that they turn it on each other. Sunnis and Shiites consider each other evil, and fight each other as if they were fighting Shaitan.
| Quote: |
| while the bible quotes: BIBLE:
"And the Lord said, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the elderly men who [were] before the house. 9:7 And he said to them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. Ezek. 9:5-7 |
You have either willfully taken this out of context, in the case of chopping off the end of verse 9:6, or implied a false context, by failing to mention that this was not an attack on another country. These were Jews. They were dealing with their own people.
| Quote: |
| Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark.
Ezek. 9:6 |
What is this mark?
| Quote: |
| Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
Ezek 9:4 |
You tried to portray this as an indiscriminant slaughter when in fact they were very selective. These were Jews who were engaging in demon worship, and it had gone rampant.
Beyond that I’m not going to try and defend this, I never liked the Old Testament. You won’t find anything like this in the New Testament. If you read the earlier parts of Old Testament it is full of description of an extremely primitive culture that was constantly turning back to demon worship. Perhaps extreme measures were required, it doesn’t really concern me beyond this one point:
This verse does not encourage any kind of racism or religious bigotry. That is not the way that they dealt with other cultures, it is only how they dealt with their own. By contrast, the Qur’an does encourage religious bigotry.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| ok thats 1 verse from each u tell me what sounds server and i would lik 2 let u no that the word ISLAM means peace and im sowi 2 say but any1
who is willing to follow the media and not research truth sowi 2 say but really pathetic look the word JIHAD when heared sounds like war the meaning is struggel ok hears the site ok that i quoted from and thats only 1 proof |
Yes, everyone in America knows what Jihad means. It does not necessarily mean war. After the largest battles were over, followers of Mohammed turned to Mohammed and said the Jihad is over. He said, “The little jihad is over, but the big jihad still has to be fought”, pointing to his heart.
Never the less, the Qur’an talks about Jihad so much without making any clear distinction the vast majority of the time, that it encourages a violent militant attitude, as exemplified throughout the Muslim world. Christianity is the second most violent religion in the world, and yet it is not nearly as violent. No other religious violence is as wonton and blood thirsty as Muslim violence. Muslims have always favored beheadings, the most gruesome and grizzly form of execution that there is.
Last edited by mike1reynolds on Wed May 03, 2006 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Hi
mike
mike
| Quote: |
| Mohammed and few bad things, but one of those bad things is that he was illiterate and lacked any spiritual education in order to discern between good and evil entities.
hear u said that prophet Mohommed S.A.W.S was illeterat but thruth is u think of it he lived with pagens and sorrounded by so many ppl who wanted his blood spread on his sword now going back 2 illeteat he was yet he was also this was due 2 his childhood(research) Allah allowed the holy propet mohommed s.a.w.s to be that way couse if he was capable of reading and writing thay will say mohommed wrote the quran at the time thay where calling mohommed s.a.w.s a poet so u do the math ok another time u said that Allah refers in the quran as We and Us in english that is how it is translated where as we and us a respect in the arab culter there is 2 we's normal and royal and thats how it is in the quran. look man i other thing u mentioned that only muslims in islam will enter heaven and the reson for that is allah will not let those who are good in this world be juged unjustly those of other religions are rewared in this life and also on there death beds where allah almighty will allow the pain of death not to be as bad couse of there good deeds in life so thay are rewareded just not the ultimate rewared witch is heaven this is becouse thay where not willing to listen to the truth look the quran is a holy scruipter and i belive is the truth the mircals etc.... one other thing with cristianity hears a lil history lesson in the time where the holy roman empier was ruled by fredrick barbarousa he was having problems with the pope at the time so what happen he HIRED his own pope and there was a war at the time due to this issue im out |
Hi
mike
[quote]Mohammed and few bad things, but one of those bad things is that he was illiterate and lacked any spiritual education in order to discern between good and evil entities.
hear u said that prophet Mohommed S.A.W.S was illeterat but thruth is u think of it he lived with pagens and sorrounded by so many ppl who wanted his blood spread on his sword now going back 2 illeteat he was yet he was also this was due 2 his childhood(research) Allah allowed the holy propet mohommed s.a.w.s to be that way couse if he was capable of reading and writing thay will say mohommed wrote the quran at the time thay where calling mohommed s.a.w.s a poet so u do the math
ok another time u said that Allah refers in the quran as We and Us in english that is how it is translated where as we and us a respect in the arab culter there is 2 we's normal and royal and thats how it is in the quran. look man i other thing u mentioned that only muslims in islam will enter heaven and the reson for that is allah will not let those who are good in this world be juged unjustly those of other religions are rewared in this life and also on there death beds where allah almighty will allow the pain of death not to be as bad couse of there good deeds in life so thay are rewareded just not the ultimate rewared witch is heaven this is becouse thay where not willing to listen to the truth look the quran is a holy scruipter and i belive is the truth the mircals etc....
one other thing with cristianity hears a lil history lesson in the time where the holy roman empier was ruled by fredrick barbarousa he was having problems with the pope at the time so what happen he HIRED his own pope and there was a war at the time due to this issue
im out
mike
[quote]Mohammed and few bad things, but one of those bad things is that he was illiterate and lacked any spiritual education in order to discern between good and evil entities.
hear u said that prophet Mohommed S.A.W.S was illeterat but thruth is u think of it he lived with pagens and sorrounded by so many ppl who wanted his blood spread on his sword now going back 2 illeteat he was yet he was also this was due 2 his childhood(research) Allah allowed the holy propet mohommed s.a.w.s to be that way couse if he was capable of reading and writing thay will say mohommed wrote the quran at the time thay where calling mohommed s.a.w.s a poet so u do the math
ok another time u said that Allah refers in the quran as We and Us in english that is how it is translated where as we and us a respect in the arab culter there is 2 we's normal and royal and thats how it is in the quran. look man i other thing u mentioned that only muslims in islam will enter heaven and the reson for that is allah will not let those who are good in this world be juged unjustly those of other religions are rewared in this life and also on there death beds where allah almighty will allow the pain of death not to be as bad couse of there good deeds in life so thay are rewareded just not the ultimate rewared witch is heaven this is becouse thay where not willing to listen to the truth look the quran is a holy scruipter and i belive is the truth the mircals etc....
one other thing with cristianity hears a lil history lesson in the time where the holy roman empier was ruled by fredrick barbarousa he was having problems with the pope at the time so what happen he HIRED his own pope and there was a war at the time due to this issue
im out
hi
sowi just saw you Question k
[/quote]The Devil can do mighty deeds too. Haven’t you ever heard this? As I’ve asked over and over and over, how do you know that the Quranic entity and the miracles it did were from Allah and not Shaitan?
Why is it impossible for a Muslim to even address this question[quote]
ok the devil is desiving and is capable of playing with ones heart and ego yet u think of it that is the devil and it is not capable of doing any more damage then that no realy think of it and do the math god will not give any power to the sought to play with things but humans miricals are what god creats illusions is the devil and illusions are not even there also the devil challenged and said to god i am going to desive as much people as possable so the power of the devil is to play tricks hope u got my drift
im out
sowi just saw you Question k
[/quote]The Devil can do mighty deeds too. Haven’t you ever heard this? As I’ve asked over and over and over, how do you know that the Quranic entity and the miracles it did were from Allah and not Shaitan?
Why is it impossible for a Muslim to even address this question[quote]
ok the devil is desiving and is capable of playing with ones heart and ego yet u think of it that is the devil and it is not capable of doing any more damage then that no realy think of it and do the math god will not give any power to the sought to play with things but humans miricals are what god creats illusions is the devil and illusions are not even there also the devil challenged and said to god i am going to desive as much people as possable so the power of the devil is to play tricks hope u got my drift
im out
Mike you got to know this as well, The Shaitan can do alot of things Miracles, fool people and a whole lot of stuff BUT YOU GOT TO KNOW THAT GOD(ALLA(SWT)) IS GREATER AND IS THE MOST MERCIFUL. God isn't going to send a devil and fool a PROPHET, THE LAST PROPHET OF ISLAM AND THE MESSENGER OF HIS OWN, to make people believe in a true religion that GOD himself made and just to let you know mike ISLAM wasn't only around in Prophet Muhammed's (saws) time's they wre earlier Prophet Issa (Jesus) himself was a muslim why do you not say that the Devil visited the virgin mary and sent her the message?
hay man 1 question u watch the news couse beheadings and war etc are not encoruged by muslims if u spoke with a muslim with faith then u will no the truth above this is if u remmember it was not the muslims who brang the war 2 america (beside what the medi says) 9/11 was one of those things that is lik what this needs reserch to find the culperate i watched a doc on 9/11 and the guy wasnt even muslim just an sayin that u think on itlook at the proof of that 9/11 was a lod of B.S couse the plain thay said that hit the pentigon wasnt even big enoghf to get trought the hole in the wall that it suposedly made
Yeh, I watching lol @ George.W.Bush caught red Handed da ******!!
| death_dealer wrote: |
| hay man 1 question u watch the news couse beheadings and war etc are not encoruged by muslims if u spoke with a muslim with faith then u will no the truth above this is if u remmember it was not the muslims who brang the war 2 america (beside what the medi says) 9/11 was one of those things that is lik what this needs reserch to find the culperate i watched a doc on 9/11 and the guy wasnt even muslim just an sayin that u think on itlook at the proof of that 9/11 was a lod of B.S couse the plain thay said that hit the pentigon wasnt even big enoghf to get trought the hole in the wall that it suposedly made |
All 19 of the hijackers were Muslims. You haven't got a shred of evidence supporting the assertion that they were not, and you have to ignore a mountain of evidence to believe this.
| RaMo wrote: |
| God isn't going to send a devil and fool a PROPHET
|
Who said that God had anything to do with it? The Bible talks on and on about false prophets and demons disguised as angels. (False prophets aren’t necessarily intentional deceivers, they can just as easily be self-deceived.
So how is it impossible for Shaitan to deceive someone? Isn’t that all he does?
At least you have finally gotten to the topic I've been trying to herd you too, even if your supporting arguments are all circular reasoning. (Circular reasoning is an argument that assumes its own conclusion.)
| RaMo wrote: |
| THE LAST PROPHET OF ISLAM AND THE MESSENGER OF HIS OWN, to make people believe in a true religion that GOD himself made |
You have done nothing but assume your conclusion. This is circular reasoning. Shaitan loves circular reasoning! This is not in any way shape or form evidence to support the divinity of the Quranic entity. The Quranic entity perpetually tries to drum up religious bigotry. Only a demon would do this.
| RaMo wrote: |
| and just to let you know mike ISLAM wasn't only around in Prophet Muhammed's (saws) time's they wre earlier Prophet Issa (Jesus) himself was a muslim why do you not say that the Devil visited the virgin mary and sent her the message? |
Conversely, there is a huge mountain of evidence that the Quranic entity was an imposter. This evidence comes in the form of huge numbers of statements in the Quran which incite Muslims to religious bigotry.
As to Jesus, that was 6 centuries earlier, and if there was any truth to this there would be some evidence of it, which there is none. There is no prior record of anything Islamic before Mohammed. Just because the Quran talks about Jesus doesn’t make Jesus a Muslim. Especially since Muslims DIS Jesus (insult him). They say that the resurrection was fake. No wounder you get so touchy, imagining that I’ve called Mohammed a “faker”. That is exactly what the Quran says about Jesus, they say that he faked the resurrection.
Hi
ok ok back up what bro seresly man look Isa (jesus) is look apone as one of the greatest messengers from god Quote from quran
When the angel said: Mary, god gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary - high honored shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, lord, said Mary: How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? Even so, he said: God creates what He will. When he decrees a thing He but say to it, Be, and it is” (Al-Imran 3:45-47).
another is
“ Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'How shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed is He WHO has made me ,wherever I may be; and HE has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive” (Maryam 19:29-33).
“ And when Jesus son of Mary said, Children of Israel, I am indeed the Messenger to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tiding of a Messenger who shall be the praised one” (As-Saff 61:6).
Note that "praised one" is a translation of "Ahmad" - The Prophet Mohammed's name. Careful study of the New Testament shows that Jesus refers to the same Prophet in John 14:16-17: "And I will give you another Counselor (The Prophet Mohammed). To be with you for ever, even the Spirit of Truth".
that ones for all the cristans out there
also there was never a death or crusifiction to be a reserection Quote
"And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)
But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise. )" (Q.4:157-158)
hope thats enofe proof that jesus is a beloved prophet to me and all muslims
now on the topic of demons and mohommed ur saying ok look this is where allah has showed muslims go kill one QUESTION do u no when the verse that u r reffering 2 was sent do u no y it was sent do u no how it effects our lif 2day????? oh and who it effects today hears a quote i found in the Quran 4 u that islam dose promote peace also yes i do no where and y etc this verse wa sent
ok " Except those of the Mushrikun ( the non-muslims) with whom u have a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in aught nor have supported against u. So fulfil there treaty to them for the end of there term surly allah loves Al-Muttaquen(the pious)" (V 4 surah 9)
(surah 9 V 6) "And if anyone of the mushrikun seeks ur protection then grant them protection so that thay may hear the word of allah (the quran and then escort him to where he can be secure most that is couse there are man who no not"
also islam a religion of peace and not ignorance or demons islam teaches that when going to war it is haram (forbiden) to kill the capters
also hopfuly u will agree that the devil and demons do not have the power to help a religion to be the fastest growing also the fastest expanding islam reached rome and persia in less then what 1000 years and there civerlizations that where huge rome was so big it needed 2 empoers( the king of the kings of that kigdom)
also u said we cry over ppl saying we did it (bombings and all) ok hears one 4 u the terrerest suspects cought last year where taken to cout right but get this y was the evedence not presented to the genral public it thay who have the right to say what thay have 2 also the hole bin ladin thing america went to afganestan and killed over 40 000 ppl couse there lookin 4 bin ladin cof cof also there was an english reporter who was captered by the taliban who couse of them converted to islam proof enofe 4 u
im out
ok ok back up what bro seresly man look Isa (jesus) is look apone as one of the greatest messengers from god Quote from quran
When the angel said: Mary, god gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary - high honored shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, lord, said Mary: How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? Even so, he said: God creates what He will. When he decrees a thing He but say to it, Be, and it is” (Al-Imran 3:45-47).
another is
“ Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'How shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed is He WHO has made me ,wherever I may be; and HE has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive” (Maryam 19:29-33).
“ And when Jesus son of Mary said, Children of Israel, I am indeed the Messenger to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tiding of a Messenger who shall be the praised one” (As-Saff 61:6).
Note that "praised one" is a translation of "Ahmad" - The Prophet Mohammed's name. Careful study of the New Testament shows that Jesus refers to the same Prophet in John 14:16-17: "And I will give you another Counselor (The Prophet Mohammed). To be with you for ever, even the Spirit of Truth".
that ones for all the cristans out there
also there was never a death or crusifiction to be a reserection Quote
"And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)
But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise. )" (Q.4:157-158)
hope thats enofe proof that jesus is a beloved prophet to me and all muslims
now on the topic of demons and mohommed ur saying ok look this is where allah has showed muslims go kill one QUESTION do u no when the verse that u r reffering 2 was sent do u no y it was sent do u no how it effects our lif 2day????? oh and who it effects today hears a quote i found in the Quran 4 u that islam dose promote peace also yes i do no where and y etc this verse wa sent
ok " Except those of the Mushrikun ( the non-muslims) with whom u have a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in aught nor have supported against u. So fulfil there treaty to them for the end of there term surly allah loves Al-Muttaquen(the pious)" (V 4 surah 9)
(surah 9 V 6) "And if anyone of the mushrikun seeks ur protection then grant them protection so that thay may hear the word of allah (the quran and then escort him to where he can be secure most that is couse there are man who no not"
also islam a religion of peace and not ignorance or demons islam teaches that when going to war it is haram (forbiden) to kill the capters
also hopfuly u will agree that the devil and demons do not have the power to help a religion to be the fastest growing also the fastest expanding islam reached rome and persia in less then what 1000 years and there civerlizations that where huge rome was so big it needed 2 empoers( the king of the kings of that kigdom)
also u said we cry over ppl saying we did it (bombings and all) ok hears one 4 u the terrerest suspects cought last year where taken to cout right but get this y was the evedence not presented to the genral public it thay who have the right to say what thay have 2 also the hole bin ladin thing america went to afganestan and killed over 40 000 ppl couse there lookin 4 bin ladin cof cof also there was an english reporter who was captered by the taliban who couse of them converted to islam proof enofe 4 u
im out
oh one other thing man think of it god ovesly would no if saitan was trying something as such man it god Allah man common plz a prophet it the ultamit deseption and y would god allow such a thing yes u r right there was fules prophets but god always discraced them and proved them as fules
RaMo wrote:
Mike Wrote:
lol, plz i read all that the Quran says Jesus is a fake? 1 of its own prophet's? wheres your EVIDENCE on this? oh yeh, and ur evidence on Prophet Muhammed bieng Approached by Shaitan and no Angel Gabriel?
| Quote: |
| and just to let you know mike ISLAM wasn't only around in Prophet Muhammed's (saws) time's they wre earlier Prophet Issa (Jesus) himself was a muslim why do you not say that the Devil visited the virgin mary and sent her the message? |
Mike Wrote:
| Quote: |
| Because there is no evidence of this. Just because the names are the same doesn’t mean that one wasn’t an imposter, but I need evidence to support the notion that Mary was approached by an imposter.
Conversely, there is a huge mountain of evidence that the Quranic entity was an imposter. This evidence comes in the form of huge numbers of statements in the Quran which incite Muslims to religious bigotry. As to Jesus, that was 6 centuries earlier, and if there was any truth to this there would be some evidence of it, which there is none. There is no prior record of anything Islamic before Mohammed. Just because the Quran talks about Jesus doesn’t make Jesus a Muslim. Especially since Muslims DIS Jesus (insult him). They say that the resurrection was fake. No wounder you get so touchy, imagining that I’ve called Mohammed a “faker”. That is exactly what the Quran says about Jesus, they say that he faked the resurrection. |
lol, plz i read all that the Quran says Jesus is a fake? 1 of its own prophet's? wheres your EVIDENCE on this? oh yeh, and ur evidence on Prophet Muhammed bieng Approached by Shaitan and no Angel Gabriel?
| mike1reynolds wrote: | ||
All 19 of the hijackers were Muslims. You haven't got a shred of evidence supporting the assertion that they were not, and you have to ignore a mountain of evidence to believe this. |
Do you get the whole thing?? All 19 of the Hijackers are Fakes
.. omg re-watch the documentry !!! there tryna say its all fake excpet when it happened which was real they show u these lil flashes of light that come out of the plane before it hit and shit like that and how President Bush was reading to the kids and he didnt do nothing just kept reading after the first one hit.. cmon u call that a leader 
lol...| Quote: |
| I am a theist. I practice Christianity/Judaism/Taoism/Hinduism/Buddhism/Lamaism/Shamanism/Zen. |
Lol
you got to be kidding
| RaMo wrote: |
| Do you get the whole thing?? All 19 of the Hijackers are Fakes .. omg re-watch the documentry !!! there tryna say its all fake excpet when it happened which was real they show u these lil flashes of light that come out of the plane before it hit and **** like that and how President Bush was reading to the kids and he didnt do nothing just kept reading after the first one hit.. cmon u call that a leader lol... |
It would strike me as odd for someone to fake their religion and still be killing in the name of it. You're trying to say all these Insurgents and Al-Qaeda members and people that have called Jihad, and repeat "God is great" as if it's a warcry while videotaping others blowing themselves up, fighting coalition forces, and beheading are not islamic?
What possible reason would Bush have for blowing up buildings, with people in them, on his own soil? Try to think for yourself man.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| now on the topic of demons and mohommed ur saying ok look this is where allah has showed muslims go kill one QUESTION do u no when the verse that u r reffering 2 was sent do u no y it was sent do u no how it effects our lif 2day????? oh and who it effects today hears a quote i found in the Quran 4 u that islam dose promote peace also yes i do no where and y etc this verse wa sent
|
Quoting other verses doesn’t change the fact the verse I quoted, along with many others, promote religious bigotry by encouraging Muslims to assume that many Christians and Jews have the worst possible motivations. If you can’t defend against this then you must agree with the Qur’an, that many Christians and Jews have the worst possible motivations and are totally dishonest about their motives.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| ok ok back up what bro seresly man look Isa (jesus) is look apone as one of the greatest messengers from god Quote from quran
|
The resurrection is Jesus’ greatest accomplishment, but you claim it is a fake. There is not a Christian alive who would see this as anything but contempt for Jesus.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| “Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'How shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed is He WHO has made me ,wherever I may be; and HE has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive” (Maryam 19:29-33).
|
So you think speaking as a baby is a higher complement that makes up for calling the resurrection a fake? This just sounds creepy. It is not impressive at all. It makes Jesus sound possessed as a baby. If your baby spoke wouldn’t it frighten the living daylights out of you?
So first they cut him down to size by calling his greatest accomplishment a fake, then they build him up with empty platitudes, and with creepy unholy mystical powers like speaking as a baby. Then they try to use this to prop up the credibility of the Qur’an. This is called trying to have your cake and eat it too.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| Note that "praised one" is a translation of "Ahmad" - The Prophet Mohammed's name. Careful study of the New Testament shows that Jesus refers to the same Prophet in John 14:16-17: "And I will give you another Counselor (The Prophet Mohammed). To be with you for ever, even the Spirit of Truth".
that ones for all the cristans out there |
No non-Muslims would buy this nonsense. He was clearly talking about the Second Coming. Even Mohammed talked about the Second Coming, so you know full well that your interpretation of John here is contrived.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| also hopfuly u will agree that the devil and demons do not have the power to help a religion to be the fastest growing also the fastest expanding islam reached rome and persia in less then what 1000 years and there civerlizations that where huge rome was so big it needed 2 empoers( the king of the kings of that kigdom)
|
It took one thousand years to get right next too Persia? Since Rome is not Islamic I don’t see your point. Arabia was on the edge of the Roman empire to begin with, so Islam started out in the remains of the Roman empire.
Islam is only the fastest growing because Islamic countries are so primitive and still have an out of control birth rate, the way all third world countries use to. Every other part of the world has advanced enough to stem the tide except Islamic countries. They are so backwards that they still have this huge population explosion going on.
So you are saying that demons can’t help people get it on? Sex magic is a central part of demon worship.
| ahmad wrote: | ||
Lol you got to be kidding |
Since Islam is a religion of religious bigotry, it is hardly surprising that you would have nothing but contempt for comparative theology.
In this country you can get a college degree in it. I'm sure that isn't possible where you came from. Muslims would never embrace any other religion, not even another sect of their own religion.
| AdamantMonk wrote: | ||
It would strike me as odd for someone to fake their religion and still be killing in the name of it. You're trying to say all these Insurgents and Al-Qaeda members and people that have called Jihad, and repeat "God is great" as if it's a warcry while videotaping others blowing themselves up, fighting coalition forces, and beheading are not islamic? What possible reason would Bush have for blowing up buildings, with people in them, on his own soil? Try to think for yourself man. |
NO. I'm saying that the thing's that happened to America the pentagon,9/11 it's all fake!!, And yes George Bush Would make any reason to have a war!! you have to watch the documentry on it, dont speak till uve watched it!!
| mike1reynolds wrote: | ||||
Since Islam is a religion of religious bigotry, it is hardly surprising that you would have nothing but contempt for comparative theology. In this country you can get a college degree in it. I'm sure that isn't possible where you came from. Muslims would never embrace any other religion, not even another sect of their own religion. |
You Got To Be Kidding Me Right? After all the thing's ive wrote you still say this.. read my posts !!!
| RaMo wrote: |
| NO. I'm saying that the thing's that happened to America the pentagon,9/11 it's all fake!!, And yes George Bush Would make any reason to have a war!! you have to watch the documentry on it, dont speak till uve watched it!!
|
Bush is one thing, sure he's a war monger, 9/11 is quite another. The world is full of wild eyed crazy conspiracy theories, but this is one of the wildest that I've ever heard. Muslims believe all kinds of crazy things like this about non-Muslims. It is just another manifestation of the Quran's incitement to religious bigotry.
| mike1reynolds wrote: | ||
It took one thousand years to get right next too Persia? Since Rome is not Islamic I don’t see your point. Arabia was on the edge of the Roman empire to begin with, so Islam started out in the remains of the Roman empire. Islam is only the fastest growing because Islamic countries are so primitive and still have an out of control birth rate, the way all third world countries use to. Every other part of the world has advanced enough to stem the tide except Islamic countries. They are so backwards that they still have this huge population explosion going on. So you are saying that demons can’t help people get it on? Sex magic is a central part of demon worship. |
LOL.. fastest growing not by birthrate, by conversion(or however u spell it).
You ever seen Dubai?You ever seen Saudia Arabia.. or maybe we(the Islamic Countries) havent so called Advanced enough because every other mother ****** country (as america) come into our soil and ****** up everything for no appopriate reason... nearly every islamic country has had America fighting against them on their own soil.. u tell me if someone came into ur house, stole all ur money, everythiing and destroyed the house with it and all ur clothes.. you tell how da hell u gonna start all ova? you no clothes, no food, not money no nothing
so tell me? how, your gonna ADVANCE SLOWLY.... aiight?
Research it like I did, RaMo. You just believe whatever gossip your friends tell you. If you research it you'll discover the truth. It has nothing to do with conversion. The only converts in this country are disaffected angry blacks. Islam appeals to them. I have even been to the local mosque for services, and I was the only white guy in the whole place.
Islam is not expanding at all through conversion, it is expanding purely through birth rate. In this country it is the fastest growing religion exclusively because of immigration. The religion with the most number of conversions in the world is Scientology.
Islam is not expanding at all through conversion, it is expanding purely through birth rate. In this country it is the fastest growing religion exclusively because of immigration. The religion with the most number of conversions in the world is Scientology.
k dude hears 1 4 ya ok islam was the fastest expanding nation and it was also the most advanced the center of knowlage used to be bagdad u no the place bush thought yep its a nice place was the most advanced at its time (less the 1000 years ago) and SPAIN was the second also go to spain look at the islamic work there the muslims where advanced now listen hears the hole doomonic religion stuff muslim victorys where always due to there faith and ask the experts thay will say that muslims trust in god and fiath was what made them what thay where now theres a muslim saying : when the muslims where hook to the hearafter thay where victories but when thay got hook to the DUNYA(this life) thay lost) exactly what happened muslims started to get attached to this life and lost value of the hearafter
ok now the jesus topic dude the bible itself conredicts the reserection (if i get my hands on it) lisen to a dude named Ahmad dedad(crsixtion or crusefiction) or somethin lik thay the resserection did not happen and also jesus talking from the cradel man look at it ok read the vearse the vergin mery was being acussed so she pointed to her son as god had told her to do god did not want harm upon mary also the reserection claims that jesus went to puel, puel was a person who used to kill cristans man tell me serely the vergin mery was a blessed woman y oh y will god want her to suffer
1 question do we also disrespect jesus by saying that when he was (so called on the cross" he said my god my god (somethin along them lines) he did not say oh father oh father look if juses is son of god that makes him a god right then y did he have to do all that to make ppl sinless or so u r saying he is god so how is it he is not capable
(if i find the bible verses i will Quote them)
im out
ok now the jesus topic dude the bible itself conredicts the reserection (if i get my hands on it) lisen to a dude named Ahmad dedad(crsixtion or crusefiction) or somethin lik thay the resserection did not happen and also jesus talking from the cradel man look at it ok read the vearse the vergin mery was being acussed so she pointed to her son as god had told her to do god did not want harm upon mary also the reserection claims that jesus went to puel, puel was a person who used to kill cristans man tell me serely the vergin mery was a blessed woman y oh y will god want her to suffer
1 question do we also disrespect jesus by saying that when he was (so called on the cross" he said my god my god (somethin along them lines) he did not say oh father oh father look if juses is son of god that makes him a god right then y did he have to do all that to make ppl sinless or so u r saying he is god so how is it he is not capable
(if i find the bible verses i will Quote them)
im out
| death_dealer wrote: |
| k dude hears 1 4 ya ok islam was the fastest expanding nation and it was also the most advanced the center of knowlage used to be bagdad u no the place bush thought yep its a nice place was the most advanced at its time (less the 1000 years ago) and SPAIN was the second also go to spain look at the islamic work there the muslims where advanced now listen hears the hole doomonic religion stuff muslim victorys where always due to there faith and ask the experts thay will say that muslims trust in god and fiath was what made them what thay where now theres a muslim saying : when the muslims where hook to the hearafter thay where victories but when thay got hook to the DUNYA(this life) thay lost) exactly what happened muslims started to get attached to this life and lost value of the hearafter
|
Arabia was the only part of the Roman empire to avoid being thrown into warfare and total chaos by the fall of the empire, so naturally it retained much more of the ancient scholarship. Also, Mohammed, though illiterate, was a brilliant man who loved learning and encouraged it.
Unfortunately, his illiteracy and lack of spiritual education made it impossible for him to discern the true nature of the entity that dictated the Qur’an to him. As a testament to the corrupting influence of the Qur’an, the Middle East went from being the most advanced part of the western world in the later part of the first millennium to being the most backwards and primitive part of the world today.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| ok now the jesus topic dude the bible itself conredicts the reserection (if i get my hands on it) lisen to a dude named Ahmad dedad(crsixtion or crusefiction) or somethin lik thay the resserection did not happen and also jesus talking from the cradel man look at it ok read the vearse the vergin mery was being acussed so she pointed to her son as god had told her to do god did not want harm upon mary also the reserection claims that jesus went to puel, puel was a person who used to kill cristans man tell me serely the vergin mery was a blessed woman y oh y will god want her to suffer
|
You are arguing with me as if I am a Christian, which I am not. Never there less there is absolutely nothing in the Bible which throws any doubt on Jesus’ resurrection. There are plenty of doubters, but none of them can reference the Bible for support. There is most definitely nothing in the Bible about Jesus speaking as a baby either.
| death_dealer wrote: |
| 1 question do we also disrespect jesus by saying that when he was (so called on the cross" he said my god my god (somethin along them lines) he did not say oh father oh father look if juses is son of god that makes him a god right then y did he have to do all that to make ppl sinless or so u r saying he is god so how is it he is not capable
|
Once again, I am not a Christians, I am not offended by the accusation. I am just telling you that all Christians would have an even worse opinion of Islam than they already do, if they knew that the Qur’an says that the resurrection was a fake. All Christians would find that extremely offensive.
| RaMo wrote: |
| You ever seen Dubai?You ever seen Saudia Arabia.. or maybe we(the Islamic Countries) havent so called Advanced enough because every other mother **** country (as america) come into our soil and **** up everything for no appopriate reason... nearly every islamic country has had America fighting against them on their own soil.. u tell me if someone came into ur house, stole all ur money, everythiing and destroyed the house with it and all ur clothes.. you tell how da hell u gonna start all ova? you no clothes, no food, not money no nothing
so tell me? how, your gonna ADVANCE SLOWLY.... aiight? |
How has the Middle East had it any worse off than any other third world country? Colonialism has savaged the whole world and the Middle East certainly did not get the worst of it. A quarter of Vietnam's population was killed by the US, but are they worse off than the Middle East?
mike plz read this
http://www.thewaytotruth.org/islamandhumanity/spreadofislam.html
http://www.thewaytotruth.org/islamandhumanity/spreadofislam.html
What does Islam say about war?
Like Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, r on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says: Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. (2:190)
War, therefore, is the last resort and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means ‘struggle’, and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other ‘jihad’ is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace.
Like Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, r on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says: Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. (2:190)
War, therefore, is the last resort and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means ‘struggle’, and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other ‘jihad’ is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-79182.html
...Just how is the Muslim population growing? The growth rate of Islam in Western nations (including the US and Canada) primarily comes through: a high Muslim birth rate and immigration (e.g., Muslims moving to the United States), not from converts (non-Muslims becoming Muslims). As we shall soon note in regard to converts, however, two groups are vulnerable to Muslim evangelism...
...Factors for Growth. In the book, The Muslims of America, Prof. Yvonne Haddad addresses the main factors in Islam’s growth in the U.S.: "The dramatic growth of the Muslim community in the United States is a recent phenomenon, taking place primarily over the last three decades in response to changes in American immigration laws and the demands of the labor market."33 Islamic Horizons echoes this assertion: "The Muslims of North America proudly flaunt the fact that they are a people with a population over eight million and growing.……These figures do not, however, highlight the fact that a vast majority of these eight million are Muslims who either came to this continent after the 1960’s or are reverts [i.e., people who return to their former Muslim beliefs]."34
Again, conversion has not been the major factor in Islam’s growth, with two major exceptions. The first is given by Wendy Zoba in a Christianity Today cover story entitled "Islam, U.S.A": "Islam is gaining most of its U.S. converts in prisons and on university campuses. The majority of American converts to Islam —— 85 to 90 percent —— are black."35 In addition, the number of American women who marry Muslim men and convert is estimated to be about 7000 per year.36
*African-Americans make up an estimated 42 to 45 percent of the Muslims in America.37 Carl Ellis places the actual number of African-American Muslims at 2.6 million. Of these, only 18,000 to 20,000 are members of Louis Farrakhan’s organization, the Nation of Islam.38..."
*I repeat: According to Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"...Islam used to be, as we stated before, Africa's primary religion...there was around 30 countries that write in arabic , currently the muslim population in Africa dropped to 316 million...The catholic population has risen from around a million of people in 1902 To 329882000 now, lets make it nearer and say 330 million...
Yes I am aware that Muslims use the story of the conversion of the Westerners as the proof of the truth of their religion. However, most of those who become Muslims leave it after they learn the inhumane teachings of Islam. Read the Steep and Deadly Climb and The Sleepless Night. The problem is that those who leave Islam often are reluctant to advertise their apostasy. Some of them may be concerned for their safety and some still have Muslim friends that they do not wish to offend. Therefore a silent withdrawal seems more appropriate..."
...Just how is the Muslim population growing? The growth rate of Islam in Western nations (including the US and Canada) primarily comes through: a high Muslim birth rate and immigration (e.g., Muslims moving to the United States), not from converts (non-Muslims becoming Muslims). As we shall soon note in regard to converts, however, two groups are vulnerable to Muslim evangelism...
...Factors for Growth. In the book, The Muslims of America, Prof. Yvonne Haddad addresses the main factors in Islam’s growth in the U.S.: "The dramatic growth of the Muslim community in the United States is a recent phenomenon, taking place primarily over the last three decades in response to changes in American immigration laws and the demands of the labor market."33 Islamic Horizons echoes this assertion: "The Muslims of North America proudly flaunt the fact that they are a people with a population over eight million and growing.……These figures do not, however, highlight the fact that a vast majority of these eight million are Muslims who either came to this continent after the 1960’s or are reverts [i.e., people who return to their former Muslim beliefs]."34
Again, conversion has not been the major factor in Islam’s growth, with two major exceptions. The first is given by Wendy Zoba in a Christianity Today cover story entitled "Islam, U.S.A": "Islam is gaining most of its U.S. converts in prisons and on university campuses. The majority of American converts to Islam —— 85 to 90 percent —— are black."35 In addition, the number of American women who marry Muslim men and convert is estimated to be about 7000 per year.36
*African-Americans make up an estimated 42 to 45 percent of the Muslims in America.37 Carl Ellis places the actual number of African-American Muslims at 2.6 million. Of these, only 18,000 to 20,000 are members of Louis Farrakhan’s organization, the Nation of Islam.38..."
*I repeat: According to Sheikh Ahmad al Kat'ani:
"...Islam used to be, as we stated before, Africa's primary religion...there was around 30 countries that write in arabic , currently the muslim population in Africa dropped to 316 million...The catholic population has risen from around a million of people in 1902 To 329882000 now, lets make it nearer and say 330 million...
Yes I am aware that Muslims use the story of the conversion of the Westerners as the proof of the truth of their religion. However, most of those who become Muslims leave it after they learn the inhumane teachings of Islam. Read the Steep and Deadly Climb and The Sleepless Night. The problem is that those who leave Islam often are reluctant to advertise their apostasy. Some of them may be concerned for their safety and some still have Muslim friends that they do not wish to offend. Therefore a silent withdrawal seems more appropriate..."
"Why have so many millions embraced the religion of Islam and scarcely a hundred ever recanted? Why do a thousand Christians become Muslims to one Muslim who adopts Christianity?"
What an objective, unbiased and clearly accurate source you provided!
Even if this weren't complete garbage with no factual support at all, don't you think the fact that reversion from Islam is punishable by death according to the Qur'an, has something to do with a low conversion rate away from Islam in Islamic countries?
What an objective, unbiased and clearly accurate source you provided!
Even if this weren't complete garbage with no factual support at all, don't you think the fact that reversion from Islam is punishable by death according to the Qur'an, has something to do with a low conversion rate away from Islam in Islamic countries?
| RaMo wrote: |
| NO. I'm saying that the thing's that happened to America the pentagon,9/11 it's all fake!!, And yes George Bush Would make any reason to have a war!! you have to watch the documentry on it, dont speak till uve watched it!! |
MB the name of this documentary? I sure hope I can find it in the dollar bin.
Just to let you know it's gonna take alot to sway my opinion, but I may pursue this, just for something to laugh at.
They have documentaries on how the Moon landing was staged as well... they present some good points... of course only a 4 year old would buy into them, but this is kind of a whole other subject.
dude th only reson i argued over jesus is becouse u said we disrespect him
anyway as i recall i am ne to this forum and u have been asking questions that i answered but u havent answered mine how in one of my post i asked
do u no y the verse was reveled etc
anyway as i recall i am ne to this forum and u have been asking questions that i answered but u havent answered mine how in one of my post i asked
do u no y the verse was reveled etc
| death_dealer wrote: |
| anyway as i recall i am ne to this forum and u have been asking questions that i answered but u havent answered mine how in one of my post i asked
|
You haven’t even addressed the only question that I’ve asked, which is how do you know that the entity which spoke to Mohammed was an angel and not a sinister entity?
| death_dealer wrote: |
| do u no y the verse was reveled etc |
dude ur saying that hay this verse prooves the quran is donomic think of the question man what im askin is do u no y the verse was reaveled and the rest of it man the qustion ur askin is what iv been tryin to get trow to u but u still arguing so ovesly i gave u proof so did u give me that verse u where quoting now im askin if u no the answers to my question when why how where
also i would lik to now if u no how the quran was reveled and if u no the mirical behind that couse if u no that then that will prove to u that mohommed(s.A.W.S) we approched by an angel couse the devil would have taken an approch that seemed to be good but was evil unlike the why the quran was revled
so do u no how the quran was reveled?????
also i would lik to now if u no how the quran was reveled and if u no the mirical behind that couse if u no that then that will prove to u that mohommed(s.A.W.S) we approched by an angel couse the devil would have taken an approch that seemed to be good but was evil unlike the why the quran was revled
so do u no how the quran was reveled?????
Hi there mike1reynolds.
Your argument is strong and is apparently one with no answer at this point.
Please accept a persoanl apology from me on behalf of my muslim brothers "death_dealer" and RaMo - both of whom i know personally.
It is apparent throughout this conversation that they severly lack any kind of argumentative ability, and as such, i urge you to purge yourself of thier off topic comments and disregard their blatent inability to process an argument.
Having said this - it must be noted that i most definatly dont agree with you. I can see that you are an open minded person for the most part, and you seem adamant on your position on the matter. This is most udnerstandable, because as i said earlier your arguments are very strong.
Furthermore, i must also emphasize what i said about this question having an answer. The reason is obvious. You mentioned never beiong able to get a comprehensible answer from a muslim on the matter. The reason being, is that an attempt to disprove your theory is pointless using the sources of the Quran and Sunnah (for somebody like me anyhow as i lakc any kind of mastership in either). The only thing left to do, is to believe it, which is obviously much easier, as it would be a throry based on a disprovable doubt.
With this said, I remind you that belief in the latter noted solution, would constitue a complete disbelief in hte validity of the Quran. This is something which any practising muslim cannot bear, as it would be a very hard blow to a belief which is concrete for most of their lives. This is probably the reason that both "dath-dealer" and "RaMo" were trying ardently to defend something which they obviously felt impossible (hence to off topics etc).
All of this baing said : i make no concusions on religion or parts of it. the only reason i saw it fit to comment in this thread, was because i was watching 2 muslims (who cant argue for a pissworth) get slaughtered at the hands of somebody posing a seemingly impossible question.
May god forgive my shortfalls and those of us all.
Peace
Your argument is strong and is apparently one with no answer at this point.
Please accept a persoanl apology from me on behalf of my muslim brothers "death_dealer" and RaMo - both of whom i know personally.
It is apparent throughout this conversation that they severly lack any kind of argumentative ability, and as such, i urge you to purge yourself of thier off topic comments and disregard their blatent inability to process an argument.
Having said this - it must be noted that i most definatly dont agree with you. I can see that you are an open minded person for the most part, and you seem adamant on your position on the matter. This is most udnerstandable, because as i said earlier your arguments are very strong.
Furthermore, i must also emphasize what i said about this question having an answer. The reason is obvious. You mentioned never beiong able to get a comprehensible answer from a muslim on the matter. The reason being, is that an attempt to disprove your theory is pointless using the sources of the Quran and Sunnah (for somebody like me anyhow as i lakc any kind of mastership in either). The only thing left to do, is to believe it, which is obviously much easier, as it would be a throry based on a disprovable doubt.
With this said, I remind you that belief in the latter noted solution, would constitue a complete disbelief in hte validity of the Quran. This is something which any practising muslim cannot bear, as it would be a very hard blow to a belief which is concrete for most of their lives. This is probably the reason that both "dath-dealer" and "RaMo" were trying ardently to defend something which they obviously felt impossible (hence to off topics etc).
All of this baing said : i make no concusions on religion or parts of it. the only reason i saw it fit to comment in this thread, was because i was watching 2 muslims (who cant argue for a pissworth) get slaughtered at the hands of somebody posing a seemingly impossible question.
May god forgive my shortfalls and those of us all.
Peace
I dont mean to dwell on the topic, but you mentioned mike, that "even Muhammad prophesised the 'second coming'". Please give me a source for this.
Secondly, on the note of the Hebrew pronunciation of the term 'praised one' in a certain prophesy of the Bible (Psalms if i remember correctly, though i dont recollect well) being pronunced to the equivilant of 'Muhammad' in Arabic. I have heard this and i must say the evidence is pretty convincing. At least, i find it to be slightly more convincing that the argmuent of a demonic scripture.
Further, i must announce the pathetic nature of this thread. On the one side, we have a theist, sitting in a win-win question which can onyl be argued in his favor. On hte otehr we have afew muslims trying to justify Islams status as a divine religion rather than a demonic one, with the use of fish, quranic verses describing laws of combat, and 9/11 conspiricies. To be honest, i dont even know whether this is even going anywhere. Does anyone here share my opinion...?
HOWEVER having said this, please note that i in no way accept defeat at such a question. The blasphemous prospect of defaming a monotheistic religion with accusations of the devils trickery is astounding to me. No arguments for it,yet no arguments against it (as of now)...
peace
Secondly, on the note of the Hebrew pronunciation of the term 'praised one' in a certain prophesy of the Bible (Psalms if i remember correctly, though i dont recollect well) being pronunced to the equivilant of 'Muhammad' in Arabic. I have heard this and i must say the evidence is pretty convincing. At least, i find it to be slightly more convincing that the argmuent of a demonic scripture.
Further, i must announce the pathetic nature of this thread. On the one side, we have a theist, sitting in a win-win question which can onyl be argued in his favor. On hte otehr we have afew muslims trying to justify Islams status as a divine religion rather than a demonic one, with the use of fish, quranic verses describing laws of combat, and 9/11 conspiricies. To be honest, i dont even know whether this is even going anywhere. Does anyone here share my opinion...?
HOWEVER having said this, please note that i in no way accept defeat at such a question. The blasphemous prospect of defaming a monotheistic religion with accusations of the devils trickery is astounding to me. No arguments for it,yet no arguments against it (as of now)...
peace
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| Hi there mike1reynolds.
|
Hi Guy! It is certainly nice to talk to a coherent Muslim!
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| Further, i must announce the pathetic nature of this thread. On the one side, we have a theist, sitting in a win-win question which can onyl be argued in his favor. On hte otehr we have afew muslims trying to justify Islams status as a divine religion rather than a demonic one, with the use of fish, quranic verses describing laws of combat, and 9/11 conspiricies. To be honest, i dont even know whether this is even going anywhere. Does anyone here share my opinion...?
|
I certainly agree, and I was wondering when a coherent Muslim would come along and take offense at this. I have met intelligent Muslims in the past, but it was before the end of the 4 your period of my reading of the Qur’an, when I finally came to my current conclusion. So I’ve never had the opportunity to debate it in a solid manner.
I don’t consider what has transpired up till now to be coherent debate, so I still consider my debating points to be essentially untested. I can preach to the choir and get agreement, but that doesn’t mean very much.
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| Furthermore, i must also emphasize what i said about this question having an answer. The reason is obvious. You mentioned never beiong able to get a comprehensible answer from a muslim on the matter. The reason being, is that an attempt to disprove your theory is pointless using the sources of the Quran and Sunnah (for somebody like me anyhow as i lakc any kind of mastership in either). The only thing left to do, is to believe it, which is obviously much easier, as it would be a throry based on a disprovable doubt.
|
Blind faith is a derogatory in English. Up until the last century, theology was not only considered to be a science, it was considered to be the queen of the sciences. Blind faith is based on the assumption that logic is not applicable to spirituality. This is what atheists think too. They also do not think that logic is applicable to spirituality. Sharing the same fundamental assumption about spirituality as an atheist is not a good starting point on the spiritual path. (This is something that I say to conservative Christians all the time.)
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| With this said, I remind you that belief in the latter noted solution, would constitue a complete disbelief in hte validity of the Quran. This is something which any practising muslim cannot bear, as it would be a very hard blow to a belief which is concrete for most of their lives. This is probably the reason that both "dath-dealer" and "RaMo" were trying ardently to defend something which they obviously felt impossible (hence to off topics etc).
|
To argue against an assertion does not in any way require one to believe that assertion. You seem to be saying that in order to argue against my assertion that you must first believe it.
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| All of this baing said : i make no concusions on religion or parts of it. the only reason i saw it fit to comment in this thread, was because i was watching 2 muslims (who cant argue for a pissworth) get slaughtered at the hands of somebody posing a seemingly impossible question.
|
It is not an impossible question. Consider my example of Joan of Arc. The ecclesiastical court that convicted her of witchcraft was extremely biased and slanted, for political reasons they had to put her to death. Even though given the most intense motivation and doggedly determined, and they utterly failed. They had to contrive a technicality that was so absurd to win their case that even the British King’s own ministers bewailed the fate of their souls, having been fully convinced by this that Joan was hearing the archangel Michael. The Catholic rules of evidence and inquiry in ecclesiastical trials are so scientific that even those mortally opposed to a defendant can be completely swayed to the opposite opinion by the weight of the resulting evidence.
| SomeOtherGuy wrote: |
| HOWEVER having said this, please note that i in no way accept defeat at such a question. The blasphemous prospect of defaming a monotheistic religion with accusations of the devils trickery is astounding to me. No arguments for it,yet no arguments against it (as of now)...
|
In the Bible it says, “Test everything! So that ye may know what is truth and falsehood.” A lot of conservative Christians forget this, and as a result their religions have turned demonic and bigoted.
The devil can slip in at any moment if your guard is down, even if one has the true word of God. The problem with Islam is that the test to which Mohammed put the Qur’anic entity was an extremely week one. He asked his elderly Christian lay cousin for his opinion, and that is it. His cousin did not have ecclesiastical training in how to tell the difference between an angel and a demon, so no real test ever took place. Because the Qur’an rejects all of the content of the Bible, any memory of the fact that such issues can readily be tested has been completely lost to the collective Islamic mind.
It is like AIDS. The first thing it does is attack the immune system’s ability recognize the virus’ presence. By declaring the invalidity of the Bible, and saying nothing about test and evaluation procedures in the Qur’an, the Qur’anic entity effectively destroyed the Islamic spiritual immune system. Thus the sad state if the majority of the Islamic world today.
This is not an impossible question to tackle, far from it. Otherwise, there would be no way to determine the true nature of *any* locution. If that is the case then the only logical course is to distrust *all* locutions. St. John of the Cross (very likely of Moorish descent) argued this.
But I agree with the Catholic Church that locutions can be tested, and that St. Teresa of Avila and St. Joan of Arc really did hear divine beings. By the reverse token, I think that it is also possible to rule out a locution being from a divine being.
In my opinion, the best test is selfless love. True religions harp endlessly on selfless love as being the single most important virtue to progressing in Godliness. The Bible harps on it endlessly too. The Qur’an is completely silent on the topic.
Oh yes, as to Mohammed’s reference to the Second Coming of Christ, it is somewhere among the many Hadiths. I couldn’t tell you were, but I have heard numerous Muslims make reference to it. I also saw a reference to it in a PBS documentary on the life of Mohammed, which I found extremely impressive. I think that he is one of the most impressive people in history, and it is a terrible shame that he was illiterate and had no ecclesiastical training.
SO MIKE1reynolds.... what are you actually tryin to proove here.....tell me what your tryin to proove and ill get up the right path...
| salman_500 wrote: |
| SO MIKE1reynolds.... what are you actually tryin to proove here.....tell me what your tryin to proove and ill get up the right path... |
There is no prove of validity of Quran.
| nam_siddharth wrote: | ||
There is no prove of validity of Quran. |
a proof is what you want......
well you see... what religion are you from......
Does your religion has a Holy Book?????
Does your religion follow a Prophet???
well you see if your answeres are yes........then this is for you..
for the past generations...... the message of Allah was always passed to people by messengers..... in total 1,24,000 messengers were sent to this world to spread the word of Allah.......
Allah also revieled his religion into the word and graced it with a Holy Book..... but the people slowly changed the Book to what they though was best........ so Allah sent another Book.... same happened..... in total 4 Holy Books were sent down to the Earth.... out of which 2 are the Holy
Quran and the Bibal......Bibal came first..... and as time passed... people also changed this too comply with their daily routine.......So finally Allah sent down The Holy Quran through The Holy Prohpet Muhammad (P.B.U.H).....
The Book was not revealed as the complete Book itself..... It was reveled to the Holy Prophet verse by verse at intervals by the Angel Jibrael (A) ... The Prohpet memorized these verses and said them out to His companians... they then rote em down on rock slabs.. camel hides... palm leaves, etc......
After the death of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) the Holy Quran was compiled during the time of Khiafat of Hazrat Abu Bakr........ Under Divine Guidance..... meaning that it was compiled under the observation of Allah himself and He Himself kept the Quran free of erros...... At this time all other copies of The Quran that did not meet with the original version were destryoed ......... keepin quran safe for centuries even uptill today....
.......ok if that did not satisfy you... maybe this will.....
you see the Quran is 1400 years old ...MASHALLAH..... and in that time scientist had not developed the electron microscope.......... but in the Quran of that time there is mentioned the name of "atoms" here...
verse 7 of surah 99:
"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!"
and here:-
verse 61 of surah 10:
"..... Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven...."
and here:-
verse 3 of surah 34:-
"The Unbelievers say, "Never to us will come the Hour": Say, "Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you;- by Him Who knows the unseen,- from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous: "
surely no man in that time could have written this....
if this does not satisfy im sure i can find more proof's......
| salman_500 wrote: | ||||
verse 7 of surah 99: "Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!" |
1. Atoms cannot be seen by any microscope.
2. Atom was known in old Greak Civilisation, at least 1000 yr. before birth of Muhhammada. (Perhaps it is not taught in Pakistani schools)
3. Muhhammad was a one-eyed among blinds in barberian illiterate Arabs. So he could use his short knowdelge to convert those stupid Arabs to Islam.
4. Muhhammada claim that Quran is words of God may be a lie (Actually it was) to make people listen, what he say. Arabs were ro stupid, that they belived all of Muhhammada's stupid stuffs.
5. You cannot use Quran itself, to prove Quran's validity. Was you asuming, that Quran will itself say, that it is written to make world fool?
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| 1. Atoms cannot be seen by any microscope. |
i said electron microscope.... and it is used for seeing atoms... do you think it just came to minds of people that an atom is there...
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| 2. Atom was known in old Greak Civilisation, at least 1000 yr. before birth of Muhhammad. (Perhaps it is not taught in Pakistani schools) |
yea ur right... we dont do greek civilzations....... but still do YOU hav proof that they actually know what an atom was..... "THERE IS NO PROOF OF VALIDITY OF THIS TERM"... cmon proove it....
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| 3. Muhhammad was a one-eyed among blinds in barberian illiterate Arabs. So he could use his short knowdelge to convert those stupid Arabs to Islam. |
thats very wrong of you to say..... Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was just a normal person who lived among the arabs... He was the chosen one and was made the Prohpet (P.B.U.H) .... and like any other Prohpet... Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was also granted with a special thing... the Quran... and also you may have heard of this