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Holocaust Remembrance Day (25th of April)





Helios
60 years ago, the nazies murdered 6 million jews.. kids, women, men.. everyone. They've murdered polish people, gypsies.. whoever wasn't belong to the 'superior' race.

Those who weren't shot and throwed into a pit hole, later found their death in the Death Camps, in the gas chambers.

Kids were used for medical experiments. One of the 'doctors' was Josef Mengele, who tortured kids, men and women.

Women were raped; men were working as slaves and were killed like flies afterwards.

True, 60 years have passed, but that means nothing!
This day shall not be forgotten. Whoever denies this day is ignorant.

Next year I will travel to Auschwitz, the camp that the nazies haven't destroyed, the camp that left as hard evidence to the terror, genocide, and the Holocaust.

My grandmother has escaped from a train to a Death Camp in Ukraine, she's a living proof to the Holocaust I know personally.

Do you have any relatives who have survived the war?

If you have something to say, please do. I would like to hear your thoughts.

Thank you.
insolent1
There was genocide. This is a bad situation that eveybody know. Hitler made a big mistake. Too many people died. This is so bad.

Nobody should kill someone.

Hitler mustnt have kill Jewish and the others.

Jews and Americans also must not kill anyone.
selim06
i think that's really bad...i've read it and got angry with those murderers. i was just thinking about 25th April will be wonderfull because of Frihost's Birthday but i learned something about this day now i can't be wonderful in this day...
*Hey,People stop killing anybody, life is good...
Helios
Of course, killing is bad, but IMO people just acn't live(or learn how to live) without war.
That's quite sad because people who want peace, eventually die Sad
ZenFountain
A good book to read for people with little or no knowledge of the holocaust is Survival In Auschwitz by Primo Levy. It's not terribly long but speaks volumes on the horror of what people experianced in the most atrocious Nazi death camp.

I was a history major and have read many historical books, diaries, and memoirs from soldiers, officers, and civilians from every corner of the war. Every group has their own interesting take on the war but by far the most sad to read are the stories of holocaust victems and Russian soldiers & civilians. I know this topic is about the holocaust but we also need to understand the plight of the Russians who went through WWII because in many ways they suffered as much, if not more, than the Jews but their story has been mostly fogotten or ignored by the West.
dz9c
Im studying this is in American History and I had to do a project on it so yea I know Sad
Blaster
I am learning about WWII now. I know it was a horrible war. We did every thing we could to try. May we remember all of the survivors. May there souls rest in peace.
goutha
War is bad... killing people is worse.

I think that we have to remember those people who died... but also to think about those who are killed today and will be killed tomorrow and do something to stop that.

Yesterday they were Jews, today they are Palestinians, Iraqis, people from Darfur etc. A good way to remember killed Jews in WWII is to do an action to stop that happening again…
Blaster
War is a terrible thing. But to kill someone for there belife is a differece.
Helios
That's right.
It doesn't matter who got killed. What matters is that people shouldn't get killed.
Only God has the right to give and take life, not some nazies or other criminals that killed then and are killing people as we speak!
aerialdreams
War is never a good thing... I mean, think about WWI, where people fought in trenches, never gained any ground, and died for nothing... I have a friend whose family was killed during the Holocaust, and I heard about how hard it was to escape and start over... It's sad that some people now days just don't care, and some others still make racial jokes and even threats... peronally, I don't think any group of people are better than the others; after all, every one makes mistakes. Those people should not die in vain... this day will be remembered...
Soulfire
We so happen to be studying World War II in history class now. We haven't gotten to Pearl Harbor yet, and have just been focusing on the conflicts in Asia and Europe.
Blaster
Soulfire wrote:
We so happen to be studying World War II in history class now. We haven't gotten to Pearl Harbor yet, and have just been focusing on the conflicts in Asia and Europe.

It seems like everyone is there. We are toward the end of the war. We are not getting so deep into it now. It is very interesting though. I love CoD2. It really taught me a lot about WWII but what it doesn't show is all of what else happend. It is pretty nuts and I hate to see it go on.
Scorpio
What US is doing in Iraq is also a war.

But I dont see US condemning themselves.

Though they condemned germany in wwII, blew out japan like a firecracker, still nobody complained.

The law holds good for everyone

If you blame germany and hitler for massacres of jews,

America must be blamed, too
They too are causing death on a large scale in Iraq, Afghanistan and where not?

That war was not necessary at all.
HoboPelican
scorpio wrote:
What US is doing in Iraq is also a war.

But I dont see US condemning themselves.....


Not the same thing at all, man.

What happened in Germany and Poland (If I missed anywhere ,I appologize) was an incredible example of what "civilized" humans could sink to. Comparing a bad war to the killing of people like cattle, using them for "medical" experimentation and systematically trying to wipe out an entire culture is an insult to the memory of those who died under the rule of the Nazis. There is no comparison.

When I was in Miami earlier this year, we stopped at the Memorial there....Very disturbing. I can't belive their are actually people who calim it never happened. Jeeez

I have no close ties to victims, but nonetheless, I cry when I think about that whole mess.
ibay
The Holocaust is surely the biggest crime of the 20th century. It is a sad thing that with humans getting more civilized with each passing day, such brutalities are still not preventable. In most cases, it is the most civilized people on planet who commit most of these brutalities.
While we condemn the holocaust and share our sorrow over all the deaths that occured, we should not forget about all the brutalities that are still going on in the world, or those that were comitted after the Holocaust.
But unfortunately, no one cares about present day's lesser beings.
Before and during the Holocaust, Jews were treated as Lesser Human Beings. But after the world realized their sufferings, they were given full protection and given a proper place in the civilized world. That makes me think, how much more today's "lesser beings" have to suffer to reach that point when world will accept their sufferings and do something to stop it.
Africans are dying like insects. they are been supplied with weapons to kill each other, all by civilized world. In African civil wars, people are killed in thousands, their bodyparts cut, women are raped hundreds of times each,and children are never spared!
Similarly, another group of "Lesser Beings" are Muslims. The way Muslims died in Iran-Iraq war by the West-Supplied weapons is no secret story. In "civilized" Europe, Muslims had to suffer many henious crimes in Bosnia and Kosovo. Entire villages were wiped out by making their inhabitants stand in line and machine-gunning them. Women of all ages were gang-raped in front of all villagers and family members to give them maximum mental torture.
In Chechniya, Russians set a new example of brutality by raping the dead bodies of those women who died while trying to save their honour.
Russians used to keep on taking turns with the dead bodies until they had any warmth in them. But who cares, these are just chechniyans - the terrorists!
And what USA did in Iraq for "Weapons of Mass Destruction" with much support from its citizens and the "civilized" world. More than 100,000 civilians have died as a COLLATERAL. Many of the civilians were targeted with chemical weapons and they died in the most horrible way.
Again, who cares? these are just "Iraqi Terrorists"
And what used to happen in East Asian countries requires a long article to describe.
Maybe when these "Lesser beings" acquire a higher status in the world soceity, their sufferings will stop and another group of people will have their turn.
But right now, we should stick with our concerns for HOLOCAUST.
the_mariska
HoboPelican wrote:

What happened in Germany and Poland (If I missed anywhere ,I appologize) was an incredible example of what "civilized" humans could sink to.

Damn, I hope you don't mean that Polish people actually took part in this masacre. One of the most horrible lies I have heard is that Poles built concentration camps for Jews. I don't consider myself as a patriot, but I go mad when I hear something like this.

I live in Lublin, a city in Eastern Poland, where during Nazis times there has been another huge concentration camp, called Majdanek. It's only 10 kilometres from my home, not mentioning the castle that used to be a nazis prison that is in the very heart of our city, and the "Under the Clock Office", where Jewish and Polish people were executed. I'm surrounded by the history, and I cannot be indifferent to this.

During the war, my grandma was something about 13-18. Her school has been closed, and going to work she could see the crematory in Majdanek. She said, a lot of her friends have been killed and that they lived in extreme povery. Luckily, she survived. My granddad took a part in the war, but he died before I was born, and I couldn't talk to him about it.

Quote:
Next year I will travel to Auschwitz, the camp that the nazies haven't destroyed, the camp that left as hard evidence to the terror, genocide, and the Holocaust.

If you need any help in organising your trip to Poland, feel free to contact me. I've got some experience in this, and this year I'm going to complete my travel guide licence. Wink
Vrythramax
The war was indeed horrible. Many things went on that were just unspeakable...including the fact that the Allies never tried to close down any of those camps until after the war was over in that particular part of the world. To be honest I would rather be taken out by a quick merciful bomb than tortured the way inmates of those camps were.

Did anybody notice how close the Rememberance Day's date was to Hitler's actual birthdate (20th April)?
HoboPelican
the_mariska wrote:
HoboPelican wrote:

What happened in Germany and Poland (If I missed anywhere ,I appologize) was an incredible example of what "civilized" humans could sink to.

Damn, I hope you don't mean that Polish people actually took part in this masacre. One of the most horrible lies I have heard is that Poles built concentration camps for Jews. I don't consider myself as a patriot, but I go mad when I hear something like this.


No, all I was refering to was locations were it happened. Sorry, if I gave the wrong impression there.

Vrythramax How much did the allies know, do you think? I mean, the US had camps for the Japanese-americans during the war. Was it assumed that the concentration camps were the same thing? If so, bombing would not have been appropriate, you think?

And, please, don't for a minute believe that I think that the japanese-american internment camps were right, either. I don't understand the rationale of confining "japanese" while treating 2nd-generation germans as "real" americans.
Vrythramax
@HoboPelican...

Short of actually being there...who knows what they knew and what they didn't, but if we are to believe the texts written after the fact, it would seem that the British, Russian and US Intelligence agencies all had knowlege of the inner workings of the camps. I can understand your comparison of the US Internment camps, but with one major difference...we didn't kill the prisoners.

Please also bear in mind that the first of the "Concentration" camps (which later became Death Camps) were made by Hitler in the mid to late 30's to incarcerate political prisoners, mental health patients, homeless people, and what he liked to call "The Work Shy Element"....pretty much anyone who didn't go along with or fit into his program.

Hitlers first experiements with gassing people also came before the war in his "Euthenasia" program where he gassed the mentally retarded and mentally ill Germans in his own country.

I would be more than happy to discuss the validity of bombing the camps in another medium...it may get graphic and this is certainly not the place for such a conversation.
HoboPelican
Vrythramax wrote:
@HoboPelican...

Short of actually being there...who knows what they knew and what they didn't, but if we are to believe the texts written after the fact, it would seem that the British, Russian and US Intelligence agencies all had knowlege of the inner workings of the camps. I can understand your comparison of the US Internment camps, but with one major difference...we didn't kill the prisoners.



Thanks. I was only using the US internment camps as an example of what of what the camps "could" have been viewed as without good intell. If the texts you saw are at all accurate it invalidates any such comparison.
benwhite
There were Poles that joined the Germans, cooperating with them in the wholesale slaughter. That's true.

There were also Poles who fought in the resistance and hid Jews away from the Nazis, saving thousands.

As is true in most of Europe, there were those that gave into the Nazi cause (whether they were just too weak to fight back or believed in it is another story). Opposite them were those that continued to oppose it.

Primo Levi, who someone mentioned, was an Italian Jew who was in the anti-facist resistance. Yet the Italians were part of the Axis. There were both sides everywhere, including Poland, but also in Italy and Germany as well. Levi is captured by Italian forces, but another Italian family hides and saves his mother. Just as an example.

The allies didn't know until later in the War. No one really believed the stories trickling out could be true.

Hitler was a eugenicist. He killed and sterilized invalids from within Germany first. Only then did he push his program beyond the borders.
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