I often see the ugly sides of religions, such as mis-used by those power-hungered dictators to create wars. I'm asking myself is religion good for us or not? What does it do for us? Does it bring more goods than bads?
To be honest, I'm in favour of ditching religions. As having different religions only create more differences (on top of skin-colours, nationalities, etc) among us. Hence giving us more reasons and excuses to go into conflicts.
Please give your reasons for either supporting religions or not supporting.
You do not need religion. You need God and Jesus.
they are religion
Wikipedia state "Religion is commonly defined as a group of beliefs concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions and rituals associated with such belief. It is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system." In the course of the development of religion, it has taken many forms in various cultures and individuals."
The bad thing is, usually all you hear about in the news is the bad aspects of religious beliefs. Very seldom do you hear the good it (the people that follow these religions) can do. I feel we do need religions, but we also need to be willing to accept each of us is different.
No, you need Allah (if I was Muslim)
No, you need Krishna, Vishnu, etc (if I was Hindu)
No, you need Waheguru (if I was Sikh)
No, you need Bahá'u'lláh (if I was a Bahá'i)
etc... you get the picture?
If mankind were to become truly human, we would not need religion at all. People would know what is right and what is wrong, without having to have all the excess rules of ritual and worship thrust on them, or without having to fear eternal damnation or without having to fear angering their Gods.
Religions (most of them hypocritical) try to teach us to love each other, while dividing us at the same time by stating that God chose that one particular religion and its followers to know the truth, or be more blessed than others, etc etc...
Religions unite ppl.
it also expleind to ppl long time ago how the world were created.
ppl need some1 that is more powerful then they are like god.
That's well said. People, if you believe in Jesus and God your half of body is in Heaven
lib - your religion is Islam?
Amen!... I agree with your words... we do not need religion, but we [all] need God and Jesus Christ, His son... for the eternal life...
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.*[John 17:3]
If you pay careful attention to what is happening in the world, you will see that those societies that have no religion whatsoever are usually in a worse state (morally and otherwise) than those that do.
Take the communist sytem for example. They banned religion in general, executed priests, nuns, monks, etc, and still insisted on a 'moral code' of their own making, but without a god or creator. The end result was that Lenin became a kind of new god (his mummy can still be seen on public display in Moscow), the communist state and ideals became a kind of new religion, yet even today we feel the negative after effects of these attempts to eliminate religion from society.
Those societies with the best behaved populations, usually have some kind of religion. I think that if we look at the situation carefully, you will notice that religion brings more positives than negatives. Having said that, I must also admit that the abuse of power by religious leaders often causes a lot of damage - much more than any good they may do or think of doing.
I need God an His son Jesus Christ because:
Now, point out a society that has no religion whatsoever. The only country in the world which ever banned religion entirely - all faiths - was Albania. The Soviet union never did.
It's a fact that there were various prosecutions based on religion during the communist regime, but interestingly, the Soviet government went back and forth constantly, from banning specific religions (but again, never banning all) to actually supporting specific religions. Why not all? Because to the Soviets, it rarely was a matter of religion, it was a matter of nationality. In spite of Marxism approving of a religion-free society, this idea was not the reason for banning or persecuting specific religions. The reason for being hostile towards catholics, for example, was mainly due to catholics recognizing an authority who wasn't Soviet (the pope).
All that said, even if the Soviet Union had banned all religions, it's a fact that over a third of the population openly followed a religion. Why did the communist regime leave such a bad result? For a whole lot of factors having nothing to do with religion (doesn't mean those factors exclude religion).
Anyway, back to the point... There are no societies with no religion whatsoever. If we instead look at societies where there's a large amount of atheists or people who don't subscribe to any religion, we'll see something quite different. According to surveys, among the most "atheist" countries we find:
To be fair, we also find Vietnam, South Korea and a lot of formerly Soviet states. We'll get to that in "the point".
(This list is an excerpt from Phil Zuckerman's "Atheism: Contemporary Rates and Patterns")
What do all the first mentioned countries have in common (other than all but three of them being in Europe)? In general, they consistently figure high on statistics on welfare, quality of life, the subjective "happiness index" etc, as well as low on poverty and crime statistics.
Yes, Vietnam, South Korea, Hungary, Slovenia etc. don't. This isn't black/white. The point here isn't "atheist = good, religion = bad". The point is, religion has nothing to do with morality, being "best behaved" or being in a "worse state". A highly religious country can be in a "worse state" than an "atheist" country. And vice versa.
That said, my own opinion? Simple. Some people need religion, some don't.
Religions does unite ppl. Ironically, it is largely (mis-) used for the wrong reasons. It was used to unite ppl to AGAINST other ppl !!
I don't mean to be rude, but I gave my reason for against religion. Hope you don't mind explain why do we need God and Jesus?
The purpose of this post is to find out the pros and cons of religions. Please convince us if you think it's good for us. Thank you.
Some religious people are fond of saying that their own religion is not a religion. That is nonsense on sticks. It is totally illogical. Look up the definition of religion. If you worship a deity and follow its rules, you are religious and you have a religion. Now, the question of whether your religion is a "true" religion or not, is completely different.
Some people need religion, but that's a character flaw, probably caused by childhood brainwashing. Healthy people don't need religion, as they're too busy enjoying life. Priests hate that (they call it "hedonism" or "materialism"), and preach against it constantly, because the more people realise that life is more interesting than religion, the less power the priests have.
The definition of religion is in the forth post.
I amazes me that you are so willing to group all Christians together. Not all are as you describe.
Let me go over a few things from your post and I ask that you don't take anything I say personal, because it's not.
1. To need a religion isn't a character flaw, it's a choice. Just as you made a choice to decide you don't need religion. It's not brainwashing that has us make this choice, but that's okay if you think so. That's your choice. Can you not understand that we made an honest educated choice to decide to follow the religion we do? Can you not understand that we are not ignorant fools because we believe in Jesus? My outlook on life is different than yours, that much is obvious, but that doesn't make me a mindless twit. I may not have gone to college, but I've been through some things that you haven't, and probably never will, just like you've been through some things that I haven't, and probably never will. I've made a choice to believe in Jesus, you've made a choice not to. You sound so determined to group us all together that you refuse to get to know us as an individual. Not all believers are alike, just like all non-believers are alike.
2. Materialism, according to the dictionary, means "a doctrine that the only or the highest values or objectives lie in material well-being and in the furtherance of material progress" Some don't preach against obtaining material items so much as what some people are willing to go through to get it. I've seen people lie, cheat and steal just to get what they want. We preach against hurting people to get what we want, not against hard, honest work to purchase items. It's when you place obtaining material goods above everything else is when things are out of hand. You can take everything I own from me and I'd still be happy as long as I have my family. My husband have worked hard to get where we are today and are more than willing to do it again if that's what it takes. As long as we have each other and our children, things will be fine.
3. Hedonism, according to the dictionarey, means, "the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the sole or chief good in life". Pleasure just for the sake of pleasure, that's not a good way to live. At least I don't think so. Now this is my belief only, but to live like that, that would be like saying if I want to go out, just leave my children with anyone and go out, ignore what's good for them and put my own wants first. I can't do that. I can't live my life for the sake of pleasure only. There's more to life than that.
I'm happy with my life. Worshipping Jesus makes me happy. Being with my family makes me happy. Taking care of them makes me happy. He's blessed me so much. I have a wonderful husband and two great children. Be glad for me that I'm happy. Don't try to change me because I don't believe as you do. I'm not here trying to change you, please show me the same respect to me and anyone else that doesn't believe as you do as long as they are happy.
I may not agree with your choices and beliefs, but I respect them. I don't have to agree, it's not my life, it's yours. I can't tell you how to live it, just as you can't tell me how to live my life. We can offer suggestions to each other, but it's up to the other person about wheither to take that advice or not.
The saying, "Life is what you make it" applies here. I'm happy with the life I have. If you're happy with your life, great. I think that's wonderful. Just don't expect me to pick up your belief system because you think it's the correct one. I'm not asking that of you. All I'm asking is that you respect my choice and the people that follow a certain religion wheither it's Christianity or not. Some of us are actually very nice people to be around.
All Christians aren't alike, just as all non-Christians aren't alike, wheither Jew, Hindu, Islamic or any other religion I didn't name, and also people who don't believe in any religion. There are good and bad in every group. I have friends of all denominations and faiths, not all Christians. They're are great people, all of them, not just the ones that believe as I do.
I am confident in my day-to-day that I don't need that feeling of someone watching over me. I have a family that I go to work for every day. Religion doesn't put food on my table, clothes on their back, or a roof over their heads.. a guy I work with(military) has a bumper-sticker that I am very fond of and kind of describes my ideas of religion best. "God is an imaginary friend for adults." So true! It's like some people don't like the idea that they are on their own as far as some supreme-being is concerned.. It's always funny when you ask someone who is religious a question like "Why does god allow poverty", and they answer "It's god's will."
Religion is like a sinister puppeteer where people are under control of a man-written book... sad...like sheep...
we need religion for ofcourse... religion is what makes.. the world peacefull.. and as usual all relegion have negatives and positives.. but think that.. there is nothing.. that doesn't have this positive or negatives... in this world everything have its own merits and demerits.. and religion have the same... and we must be wise enough to avoid and discontinue the advices.. and customs.. which is no longer good now...
NOTE: IN OUR LANGUAGE THE WORD "RELEGION" MEANS "OPINION"
When I say "nobody needs religion", I am talking about the man-made institution of Church. But we all need (or should need) God and Jesus.
Why do you need God and Jesus?
Because it is my belief (yours may differ, and that's fine with me) that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, that after you die, it's Heaven or Hell, and if you believe in Jesus, truly believe in Him, then you spend eternal life in Heaven.
If you don't, then it's eternal seperation from God, or Hell.
But that's only my faith.
Note: I'm trying to seem a little bit less like a religious whack-job here, but I want people to know my beliefs as well.
I believe that we do need religion mainly becuase it keeps weak human society under control. Is there really a God out there? More than likely... The so called scientists still can't come up with a solution to this very day. Some believe that religion is a clever way to control crowds and for some reason this would explain alot and it would also prove that ancient kings/queens used religions to build churches and other artifacts to control and bring culture into the town. Religion gives humanity a purpose but if you really think about it, does humanity actually have a purpose? Can you imagine life without well... life? You couldn't do anything, u would just cease to exist. U couldn't go watch tv or go walking. U couldn't remember or think. U just wouldn't be there... Can you imagine a type of life like that? So is that what people who don't believe in Christ think how the world is going to end? Just cease to exist... Is that really our future? A black hole of nothingness where not even a single thought is capable of being thought of. The point im trying to make is that if there really isn't a God, then the thing that awaits us at the end would make Hell look more like heaven... (And I would rather be in Heaven than Hell).
Sometimes this place needs a few religios whack-jobs. lol
But I know what you mean. Sometimes we can come across as "Okay, this is my belief and everyone else should think this too". When that's not what we mean. I realize that there are people of every faith out there that do think that way, but I don't think you're one of them. I would like to think I'm not either.
Firstly, man, it's been so long since I've posted.
Its nice to be back
And yet I find that a man can only be at peace with the world around him when he is content with himself, and with what he yearns to achieve.We've been told since the beginning of our lives that it is not morally correct for us to think that " pleasure or happiness is the sole or chief good in life ". We are told of sacrifice and selflessness.
Yet when we look around at world surrounding us it is obvious that the scenes of suffering are born out of this very dilemma.
To quote Ayn Rand ( I do not walk the same line as she does in some ways but in some paths I do ):
For the guy that said religion is what makes the world peaceful.. what were u thinking when you said that? Religion is the #1 reason for the slaughtering of millions of people in many different ages..now and LONG ago..Holy Crusades..Palestinians in Israel. So I think religion has done more harm than good as far as peace goes. Just my opinion though. As far as heaven and hell....I think I die and become worm food. That's where it ends for me.
Hey religion is good folklore, I wouldn't be so quick to knock it. A lot rational modern ideas were derived from a belief in God and Satan, heaven and hell, Jesus and sacrifice. Christianity is a direct adoption of thousands of years of Greek, Egyptian, and Babylonian stories. Religion is and integral part of human history that should be passed on and developed into something more ethical.
Since there is a lack of stable and equitable goverments in the world today, I would encourage passionate and open-minded religious organizations to help those in need. I was homeless for a short period of time and I was only able to find substancial help through a local church. I didn't believe their propaganda but they were nice people nonetheless, which is hard to come across. American culture is already isolated enough as it is. If you took out religion, then no one would come together out of a common good to such a degree that you find in churches today.
Sacrifice and selflessness can be an okay way to live, as long as a person doesn't go overboard with it. There are always times when a person has to put themself first. There has to be a balance.
I know someone that used to more around a lot. Within 5 minutes of moving to a new city, had someone lined up to watch her children so she could go out and have fun. I guess I use this as an example of when I say "Pleasure just for the sake of pleasure, that's not a good way to live". I saw what this did to her children. How it make them feel unloved by their parent. Do I sacrifice a lot for my children? You betcha! Do I sacrifice everything for them? Probably not. I have to have some time for me. Some time to be alone or alone with my husband.
Finding pleasure in things is great, but not if at the expense of someone else. To me, it's not so pleasureable then. Sitting and listening to an old person talk is fun, with the added benefit of bringing a smile to their face and heart. Treating a child like a person and not an inconvenience is fun (because children say the darnest things), it also gives them a feeling of importance, which will help them gain confidence later in life. Helping a friend when they are in trouble, may not be fun, but it's important.
All of those are forms of sacrifice, but I don't see it that way. It's not a sacrifice to me. So am I selfless because I do those things? I don't think so. To me in brings pleasure.
Okay, I'm rambling here, but I'm giving myself some things to think about. Maybe in a way, I do live for the sake of pleasure. Just not at the expense of others. Never thought of it that way before. Learn something new about yourself everyday, huh.
Hey livilou, your post reminds me of jesus's words in the parable of sheeps and goats (Matt 25) "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."
And while you're thinking of things, maybe that pleasure is a reflection of God's pleasure seeing one of his children becoming the person he has in store for them.
It could be, but I grew up around my Great-Grandmother and Grandmother. I learned at a young age that being old was not the same thing as being stupid. The old have so much to teach us if we would just listen. I used to sit for hours listening to my great-grandmother and grandmother talk about being a nurse and having to drive in the hills where the stills were to give shots. It was spell binding to me as a child, to listen to what these two had done and seen. Granny DJ, my great-grandmother was alive during the depression. She was born in 1895. Can you imagine the history she had seen? I did. I guess that's why I like to talk to old people now. They've seen things I can't even imagine, and it's interesting to hear first hand stories of that time.
Religion itself is neither good nor bad. It obviously helps people because it offers an explanation for life and such, giving a degree of power and reinforcement to those who know 'the truth'. The conflict is not the belief systems or scripture of these religions, it is a human conflict. Since we have a complete inability to authentically comunicate with each other as human beings, and sometimes with ourselves, we are ill equiped to interact with each other without drawing conclusions about each other which ultimately limit our ability to live peacefully.
Even all, you rebels are only rebels because you decided you had to be a rebel in order to fit in, or not fit in, or whatever your story is.
When you think about it. Most peoples first experience of another human being is being slapped on the arse by the doctor to make you cry so he knows you're breathing, just after being violently pushed out of the warmest safest place you'll ever know.
Doesn't stop there! oh no!
You make decisions throughout your childhood which influence the rest of your life!
Anyway thats a bit off subject. Basically the conflict is human and it doesnt matter if you abolish religion we'll still find a way to hate each other until we get over what happened to us and what we felt we had to become in order to deal with it. We're really not that different from each other. Thats why i love you all
Religion is good folklore. Why don't we grow out of it and make it a fairy tale? A nice little fable for our children and grandchildren? A piece of history that was nice when it was required (if it ever was)
Instead of devoting time and money and work and patience to religious organizations that definitely will, in some way or the other, promote their religions while helping those in need, why not spend the aforementioned resources on real non-profit organizations... organizations built by people who want nothing more than to help other people get back on their feet? Not for religious purposes or for their belief that they'll get into Heaven because of their good deeds, but purely because of humanitarian reasons?
A balance is definitely important.
rebellion would (in most cases) cause you not to fit in. But when you want to rebel against something as powerful as religion, especially in a society like mine where it plays a big role, I don't think many people do it to fit in or out. My own personal ill-feeling towards religion is because it narrows your scope of spirituality and divides people.
That appears to be a credible point. But it doesn't make religion any better than racism or all the other basis of our divisions/conflicts/hate. If we're fighting racism and discrimination on the basis of it being inhumane, I don't see why we don't do the same for religion... does religion not divide? Does it not restrict your spiritual outlook to the views of your one and only religion? Perhaps it provides security to people knowing that everyone around you conforms to the same religion... in some sick way, racism does the same... a racist would feel secure thinking he belongs to the "higher" or better race/cult/ethnicity/whatever.
ofcorse we need religion on behalf of all religions ppl are obligated be laws such as commiting suicide is wrong and u will not go to heaven or killing, fornicaton/adultry etc... Yes we do need god in our live's and the laws been obligated upon us all the one thing that religion and god allow in our everyday life's is thay always provide a way
I want to stress again that religion is a man-made institution, but God and Jesus are not. I still stand by my statment "nobody needs religion, but we all need God and Jesus."
Religion is for the weak-minded. If we could all, in our capacity as humans (who, as we all know, are much higher intellectually than other animals), learn to define our morals by ourselves, we wouldn't need religion to scare us into believeing in morals. It is more important to do something because you understand it and believe in it rather than because you have an irrational fear of angering the Gods or going to Hell someday. Think about it.
I don't understand what you meant here. I agree that we do need some laws to control those of us who are more inhuman than others and seek selfish gain at the cost of others, but what do you mean by "they always provide a way"? What way are you talking about?
Is it just me, Soulfire, or do you not reply to my posts on purpose? Could it be that you have no answers to my questions? Maybe if you don't, you should reconsider your stand on God and religion. Anyway, forget it... I'll cut the crap and get to the point
Once again, from this post, you appear to be claiming exclusivity of God to the Christians. Tell me again why it is that we all need the Christian God and the Christian Messiah (who, by the way, was a "product" of man-made institution, seeing as how he was born to a human and lived as a human) when the members of different religions get the same physical and mental states of happiness from their religion? As far talks of going to hell are concerned, the Muslims believe you're going to hell. You believe the Muslims are going to hell. More than one religion believes that all members of all other religions are going to hell... the way I see it, I'm damned anyway. I know what you're thinking... "there's such a thing as wrong religion"... and how can you claim to have the right religion and all the right answers to all the questions? Please stop being hypocritical. Learn to love properly before you preach the message of God. How can you understand love when you go around damning others and rejecting their cause for happiness. I have seen various people go to various institutes of their own Gods. This gives them happiness, peace of mind and mental satisfaction. By rejecting all these religions and ideologies, you are rejecting their claims to be happy, to be spiritually satisfied, don't you think so?
Why the hypocrisy of going around saying God loves you, but He'll damn you if believe in anything but the Christ?
And one more thing. You (hopefully and probably) know by now that I do believe in God (just not the one you do, probably). However, I allow for everyone to be happy and have fulfilling lives even if they do not believe in God. Athesists are capable of loving like "normal" humans... atheists can make good parents, can be extremely rational and logical, can be trsutworthy, can be excellent friends, can be empathical. We believe in God because we need a higher power to judge our actions. I respect atheists for not having the need to have a higher power to judge their actions. I repect the fact that they can judge their own actiosn and act accordingly.
All my thoughts, ideals, ideologies, beliefs and philosophies are based on logic and my personal experiences. If you can reply to me with logic in your post and tell me where my logic has been flawed, I'll change my stance.
I'm not trying to place one religion over any other one, but I would like to ask you a question concerning this statement.
Scenerio: You're going to listen to a person talk about rebuilding an engine. You have two choices of people to listen to. Would you rather:
A) listen to someone that has spent their life learning how an engine works, can put one together in their sleep,
B) listen to someone like me, that has no idea how an engine works, and is doing good to know the difference between starter and an alternator?
Sorry I think I may have missed your point. Are you pointing, perhaps, to the fact that Christianity is one of the oldest religions and therefore has more expericen in giving people spiritual satisfaction?
Very well, here's an alternate scenario:
You're going to listen to a person talk about rebuilding an engine. You have two choices of people to listen to. Would you rather:
A. Listen to an 80-year-old man who's been making engines all his life. He rarely utilizes the new technologies and continues to make engines the same old way that they sued to be made 40 years ago. These engines have less power, utilize more fuel per kilometer, and have an huge exhaust output.
B. Listen to a young and dynamic engineer who's equipped with knowledge of all the latest changes in the field on engine and engine parts, who can rebuild you engine into a super-turbo charged one that's much cleaner, smoother, longer-lasting, and gives you the option of using petrol or diesel based on availability, or pehaps even water, with 0% waste/exhaust output?
Please don't assume that just because religions are new, they have no idea bout spirituality or what God is. Religions have always been led by men of great powers of faith, observation and understanding. The basic message of most religions is the same. The toppings concerning rules, and how exactly to live your life are what otehr men add to propagate the religion.
hay no it aint u think of it god has used religion to help mankind and by that i mean that we have law's from god that are being used today
ok say where as thay say come from apes u would think that mankind will have never made it this far only by the help by god we where capable how u may ask ok true u always have that i smart guy but u also have that 1 dumb or corrupt guy so ppl may have got far but u will have a group who will distry the primitive progress that 1 smart guy had made (primitive to us)
Racism arises because of miscommunication, as does all conflict. You can't just paste a select amount of my text and deal with it as my complete viewpoint.
Are you fighting racism?
Sorry, I didn't mean to put it across so bluntly.
Anyway, like the rest of my post said... if we could all leanr to appreciate the fact that we are humans, and build on our humane capacity to define what is wrong and what is right, thenwe wouldn't need religion.
Another reason I said that religion may be for the weak-minded is because it offers people an easy reference/guide as to what to believe in, and why shouldn't do the things that are considered wrong. (fear of Hell/angering the Gods/etc). Instead of this, if we could all look within ourselves and answer the questions as to what really is not good for society as a whole, and if we can find reasons of our own to believe in things, then we wouldn't need religion to tell us how/what to worship. We would have our own experiences with God and our own personal reasons to believe in Him.
What if the one smart guy was smart enough to hide his progress from the dumb guys? What if the smart guy was capable of marketing his progress to the dumb guys in such a way that they realized it was good for them (for their instinct of being comfortable and lazy would surely guide them), and so progress was built on progress and this progression continued until we became what we are now?
Yes. I am (trying to be) as anti-racist as I can be. I respect the concept of equality as far as race/ethnicity/religion/communalism/etc are concerned. I don't have the need to go on strikes and protests against racism where I live, but I fight it wherever I notice it. Don't you?
like yeh i understand lib but thats the thing lik today theres problems and thats us lik within the last 2000 yrs at least where highest in progress lik what i mean is for e.g the riots that happened in australia u see throught all respect m8 im sayin that if someone respected them selfs and religion then thay sould have respect to others (and bro hood etc.....)
That wasn't the point that I was trying to get across and I apologize if that's the way you took it. My point was, who would you rather listen to, someone that actually knows what they are doing, has been there done that, or someone that has no clue of what they are doing. Age had no bearing in my post at all, I was actually thinking of two people about the same age. I may not be "over the hill" yet, but I'm a lot closer to the top of that hill than the bottom.
I don't look at the age of a person, I look at the experience of that person. I know people half my age that have been through things I'll never go through. I also know people 20 years older than I am that will see things that I have yet to go through but could one day. Why not learn from their experience. Also, just because a person is old, doesn't make that person a relic. Some of us actually keep up with technology. And no, I don't think that you're saying old people are useless. The number of years a person has lived doesn't tell anything about that person. What the person has gone through, what the person has experienced, that's what makes that person who they are!
depends what you consider a religion. I think you do!! With religion people kind of have their goals of life. Their not afraid to die. They behave better, because they think somebody's whatching over. Without religion, people wouldn't have reached this point of civilaztion.. That's just what I think
Sorry i have to confess i was in a bad mood when i posted and just wanted to make someone wrong/myself right. Human frailty!
I do believe that although its ok for you not to, it is your responsibility to bring authenticity and action to your opinions. But its ok not to! But an opinion is just an opinion, you know?
So i'm recreating you as someone who acts! If you feel strongly about it, Do something! Couldn't hurt eh?
So do I. Experience, relevance, and knowledge play a bigger part than age do, most certainly.
Of course I wasn't. I was just using the stereotyped image of an elderly person who has refused to change "the good old ways" when I was writing that post, though.
Once again, my brain asks what this has to do with religion. I am very much afraid my brain processes this as you saying that one religion is better at what it is doing than all others, and all other religions have no clue what they're saying. I will, however, not comment on this, until you state it in black and white whether this is what you meant.
I will, however, go back to your scenario. I would rather listen to someone who appears to me to be making sense, irrespective of his experience/etc. If his theory is perfect, and he exudes enough confidence to make me confident in him and what he is saying/doing, I will listen to him. This is, however, the scenario that fits only in the case of listening to the lecture of a man. If we are going to use it metaphorically, however, it would be a little bit unfair. Metaphors are OK for a little bit of comparison, but we cannot use it for such big things as religious preferences, etc etc, because the details get blurry when we use metaphors, and the details are what count in the case of big issues such as religious preference.
When all is said and done, though, age does, to most people, bring a certainly illectual quality with experience that can generally not be gained by young people.
@Smue, I usually do stand up and act for what I think is right, even if it is in the smallest way. Sometimes, circumstances dictate how much you can really do. My obsession with anonymity prevents me from getting into details about my age and my location (though I don't mind admitting I'm male ) and the circumstances which sometimes prevent me from acting for my ideals (though such big issues like racial or any other kind of equality normally spur me to action).
For the sake of argument, it would be better to say that if you feel strongly about an issue that is clearly wrong and that you are witnessing, then do something about it. Hitler felt strongly agains the Jews, yet what he did is not justifiable.
Hmm... I think I'm just writing this part for the sake of writing it... it's not really that big an issue. I'm sure we all know this already . Just a means of lightening the mood, I suppose
I'm not saying that one religion is better than another. I don't know enough about some religions to make that assumption. All I can state is that this one is right for me.
Now as far as what this has to do with religion. First I was wanting you to answer my question, which you never really did, at least I don't think so. I feel that God came down in human form to help us out. Maybe humans were drifting too far away from him. Worried too much about rituals and less about our relationship with him. Plus, you really couldn't have a personal relationship with him at that time. Everything had to go through the high priest. You couldn't talk directly to God the way you can now. When God came down as Jesus, it gave us someone to relate to, someone who had been through the trials and temptations we've either gone through or will go through. It gave us the ability to have a one on one relationship with God.
As far as answering your question as to who I would talk to, probably more the old man with a some input from the young man. Between the two, I bet a better car would be built. Yes, today's cars are better for the ecology, have better gas milage, but they aren't built to last. Cars back then were. We now live in a disposable society. If it breaks, don't worry about fixing it, just buy a new one. Why should companies worry about quality when quantity makes more money? It wouldn't surprise me that in 50 years, you'll still see cars from the 50's on the road, but I wonder if you'll find cars from today still working as well.
thats why God had prophets sent to nations (espelly the jews)
Only three words to say about this : religions are insane.
yeh tunts thats wat we need couse ppl cant see that religion is wat had keep ppl saine so thay call it insaine
Well, isn't religion still doing this now anyway? We're moer concerned about what the preachers tell us than we are about our actions... "Don't listen to Rock Music", "Don't curse", "Masturbation makes you blind"... I listen to Rock Music, hell, I listen to Heavy Metal sometimes filled with Goth lyrics. I still believe in God, I still have a properly, neatly defined set of moral values I try to live my life based on.
I can't really answer a question I didn't quite understand the intention behind. Yet, I did answer as well as I could:
I can't be any more specific than this because you really can't say who's got better expertise. If the man with all the experience has just that (experience) and nothing else, then I'd rather listen to the young man. If the young man has nothing but wild ideas that are unrealistic and a zeal/passion quite apart from reality, I'd rather listen to the old man.
If things keep getting better and better, I see no reason to dispose of the old and move forward and embrace the new developments that help us live better. When all is said and done, 50 years down the line (provided there's still enough gas to drive our cars ), I'd rather drive a modern car with all its safety features, and its eco-friendliness, etc, rather than a badly battered old car which would take up loads of money per month for maintenance.
I want you to consider Bob's case.
Bob is a kind hearted man, he lives his life by strictly following a set of pristine moral values, he maintains harmony with fellow human beings and he does a heap load of goody-good deeds. Heck, he never does anything wrong or bad whatsoever nor has he done anything bad before.
Two questions -
Please help decide Bob's needs and fate.
Whether the truth was poured into our ear by a diety on a gliding cloud, or a scientist in lab, we all need to know something to get on with our life.
Religion isn't something we can get rid of. At best we could change it's name, at worst we could develop something much more horrible.
Actualy you do not need religion. If you are good human and if you don't hate anyone, if you are ready to help others, if you haven't desires for something what is not yours then you are religious human. This is your religion and you don't need rituals in any institution. God is with you. In other way, institutions can help to start building your own religion, but like ant, it is very important to carefully pick out suger from the dust.
you see this is way there is religion couse today we now the adicuts so if we did come from aps monkeys wateva then there will be no aticquits no proper form of life so god sent prophets to show us the true way thats why the major religions belive in adam couse thay see him as the biggener of atiquest so u see if god didnt send prophets we will fight like animals afterall we do need some1 to show us the way so if u think of it we would be living like animals eating seeing and shitting
P.s sowi for putin it so straight forward but thats life
Discounting religion is a stupid thing, yes overall it is a needed part of society to provide a moral grounding for the masses.
By the same count NO we do not all need it, some people are happy with life, and happy to live it by the morals they have been taught.
Saying we ALL need religion is an ignorant statement, saying no one needs religion is also ignorant, saying that religion is for the weak is.. yep ignorant.
Some peope require religion to get on with life (because they do not fear death) and to have a reason for everything, the unexplainable is explained by the use of a god.
Some people are happy without a religion knowing we will die but accepting that life is short and we should enjoy it. They explain by science or simply leave things unexplained.
And on the earlier statistics about "most atheist" countries I think you will find that the higher accounts of atheism is due to the conditions of the country and the conditions of the country are not due to the higher atheism.
LEt's see now. I have stated my reasons for saying that religion is for the weak minded. Yet, you just come in and say "yep... ignorant". If it's ignorant, then how come I see no argument as to why it's ignorant?
Your post sees to consist of general perceptions. I understand that people need religion to define their moral, their rights and wrongs and their morals. But why depend on a set of pre-written morals or rules? If we're smart enough, we'd understand what is right and what is wrong, and not have to depend on some book or holy scriptures to tell us.
Would any of you be the same people you are today without religion? Would you want to do away with one system, and change yourself and everything so dramatically, only to learn it might be human nature that creates such systems. Do away with religion and you a different person, with a new system that you think should be ridden of. Can you even imagine, throwing silly conjectural ideals aside, that your obliteration of a belief structure would do anything at all/do something completely horrible.
Think carefully, the butterfly’s wings in Brazil may just set off a tornado in texas.
I think that religion tears people apart and brings others together.
It is needed, but it causes disruption. It's just one of those things that you're going to have to deal with. It's not going to change, it's not going to go away.
I just stay away from religion, but I respect people who do follow one or more.
I think that religion should be a personal choice, as it is mostly now.
Well I will explain.
People believe that Killing others is wrong not because its ingrained in our brains that we shouldnt do it, on the contrary our most basic desires are that of dominance and proving our dominance by fighting and killing.
The reason that we believe it is wrong is because we get taught its wrong by our parents and society, this belief is based on the laws that society has.
Now like it or not these laws have been based on religion, they where initially made laws and enforced because of their religious basis.
Religion is not for the weak minded, religion is the basis of all morals and laws in society.
And a note on the end, I am Atheist so this statement is not religious preaching.
I think religion too often means going to church or temple etc. Instead of having a deep personal and individual struggle to self-actualization through sprituality, people go just go through the motions and expect some sort of connection.
VEry well, then. Let's think about how you would think about death and killing now, when you're not a kid, and no longer need to be told things by your parents. You have probably witnessed death, and perhaps had first-hand experience of death of someone close to you. You've felt the pain of knowing you'll never see them again, etc etc. After going through this experience, would you still think it's right to kill people? (Let's assume that there was no religion and no one has told you so far that killing is immoral) Having had this experience, would you not preach to your children that it's wrong to kill others? So basically, you are teaching from your experience rather than from religious imposition on you. If this was the case even ages back, when man realized that it's safer for him to live in hordes to be better prepared against natural predators that would make prey of him, and thus realized sooner or later that it's much better for man to not kill among his own species, we still wouldn't need religion to tell us not to kill each other.
That's just the example of killing. You can take just about any moral issue and break it down to a point where we can clearly see how we benefit from it. If killing brought joy to the masses, it would be immoral to not kill at every opportunity you got. If lying solves problems faster/easier/more than it created them, it would be immoral to tell the truth.
Adultery... human beings have an inborn sense of possession, like you said.. we like to show our dominance. Our instincts tell us to be selfish and not share what we have. This applies to our possessions... both in terms of materials and people. When you were a kid, your elder cousin probably hugged your mum and said "This is my mum, not yours", and you'd probably flip and hug your mum and push all the other kids away from her. Probably, I've done that as a kid, but more importantly, I've noticed just about every little kid doing that. BAsic human instinct, yeah I'd say so.
These laws are based on human instinct and the realization by religious leaders that these laws are good for us. (or at least, were good for us when these rules were drafted).
I won't disagree that these rules were (initially) enforced with the tool and stamp of religious authority. But my point is that it's not necessary that these owuld have had to be enforced solely on the authority of religious power. They could have been enforced with simple logical reasoning as well, if we were all smart enough to understand that. Once again, I come back to square one. We needed the religious stamp to scare people into thinking that if we don't follow these rules, we're going to hell or we're angering the gods or something.... if people were smarter, we could perhaps teach them morals based on logic, and not based on fear.
Well, using science and words taken from the bible, I'd rather spend eternity in hell. Hell is actually about 80 degrees celcius cooler than heaven.
Heaven is hotter than hell.
As for me, I don't need god or jesus. I see people who believe do things to others I wouldn't do. But they seem ok because john 3:16 says as long as one believes in jesus that they will go to heaven no mater how they treat people or the crimes they commit. It's kinda like a get out of jail free card. You only need god and jesus to clense your conscience.
Do we need religion? Well, the answer is no. But some people, maybe most, have a need to believe for various reasons. Studying the history of religion reveals that religion was first used to explain what was unknown. Then religion took on the added responsibility to direct people to act in a certain manner. And since mankind has a fear of imortality, then it gives comfort to believe so one can believe life doesn't end.
To illustrate that religion is a device to get people to act in a certain way, read Deuteronomy 23:12-14
It's telling soldiers to burry their duties because god walketh around teh camp. Hmmmm, god can create all this but not avoid duties eh? Sounds more like someone wanted human waste disposed of and making it be the word of god was a way to get adherence to this request.
Ohhh, the fear tatic. Be good because god's watching. Hmmm, must be the best multi tasker around to be able to watch everyone.
So people who don't believe are afraid to die? Hmmm, since I'm not afraid to die then I must believe and not know it. Does this mean I go to heaven?
Cause and effect fallacy:
I can show evidence this statement is wrong. Everyday advances in medical sciences are achieved. Religion for many many centuries have thwarted science. For instance Science was blasphemous in the Dark Ages. It's called the Dark Ages for a reason. Religion ruled the minds.
And if god so loved his people, then why haven't we all the medical knowledge needed to cure everything? It wasn't until the past 100 or so years that diseases like cholera were caused by bacteria. Think of the millions of people who died from unsanitary conditions.
So it wasn't religion that got civilization to where it is today.
Well, The root word for Moral is Latin "mos," meaning "custom." So saying something is moral is saying something is a custom. These customs can derive from cultural and/or religious beliefs. For instance, on some uncharted island lives a group of people who find it perfectaly normal for a 50 yr old to have sex with a 12 yr old. It's moral for them. In our society the 50 yr old is a pedephile and is immoral.
Is the moral from the island based on some religious precept? Not necessarily. Is our preception based on some religious precept? Please show me the verse or commandment. In fact according to the bible, it's perfectly moral to sell your daughter into slavery.
Exodus 21:7 - If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.
So according to this, then it's perfectly moral to sell your daughter into slavery. How many daughters do yo have? How much can ya get for them?
I won't use your term killing. Instead I'll use the term murder. The reason is because it's ok to go to war and kill someone from another society but not from within our society.
We learn that murder is wrong because of our security. As Thomas Hobbes wrote, we accept social contracts, aka laws, for personal security. No one wants to be murdered. So in return each person is supposed to not murder others.
So the bible, and other religous doctrines, frown upon killing. But then killing is also justified. The old testement is filled with wars and killing. Remember the crusades? A religious war between muslims and christians? This was sanctioned by the church.
Now if religion is the basis for all laws, then where is speeding addressed in a religous doctrine? What about jaywalking? What about poaching?
Ohh wait! Laws addressing killing animals go against christian morals. For doesn't the bible say somewhr something about subduing the earth? Poaching laws are then amoral.
So not all laws are based on religion. And some laws might be in opposition by an accepted religion.
You are all taking this from your own educational stand point.. by this I mean the large (but thankfully shrinking) majority of people do not have the education we enjoy, for these people the ideas and reasoning we can have on an issue will not be fully comprehended. This is where religion is needed, there is no need to explain why everything is wrong we can simply say "Because >insert religious icon< said this is wrong and if you do it you wont get into >insert place of afterlife<"
I can see your reasoning and though it will work fine with alot of people there are alot more who need religion and society as a whole needs it.
The laws and "Moral" code that we live by where instituted by religious groups, we may have had a few people before then who understood it was not alright to kill or steal but religion brought these ideas to the masses.
Generally i checked "yes", but here some another point of view.
For the most part, you're correct and it's a shame that you are, not for you but for the "christians" that believe that way.
There are a lot of people that believe if I do this or I do that, (go to church, pray when I'm supposed to, go through the rituals) then I'll be saved. I feel that it's easy to go through the motions, but it is possible to have a personal one on one relationship with God. I don't go to church to try and find that relationship. I go to church to learn more about him. Even if I sometimes think differently than the person that is doing the teaching, it's okay. To quote my husband, "There is a lot of gray in the bible and it's left up to us to interpret it." One thing about this is since we all have different experiences, we won't always interpret some verses the same which can cause problems.