Why is rock and roll devil music?
Disnt "Satan" get kicked from "heaven" for playing rock and roll.
Thats obsured if it is.
Disnt "Satan" get kicked from "heaven" for playing rock and roll.
Thats obsured if it is.
Rock and Roll
| Yantaal wrote: |
| Why is rock and roll devil music?
Disnt "Satan" get kicked from "heaven" for playing rock and roll. Thats obsured if it is. |
Rock and roll is not inherently evil. But there are bands which sing about satan and the like - it's those which are considered evil by the Church. Which is frankly fair enough.
And interesting fact - there's no solid mention in the bible of Satan being cast out of heaven at all. I pored through a couple of versions with my aunt, who's an Anglican vicar, and all we could find was one oblique reference, in Revelations.
Satan wasn't cast out of Heaven, Lucifer was. Lucifer was God's best angel, and in a rebellion against God (something which NOBODY can win), he was cast to Hell.
He comes under such names as Satan, the Devil, Beelzebub, etc.
And no, rock n' roll isn't Satanic, it just depends on what the lyrics are and what you're exposing yourself to. Anything in this world could be looked at as potentially Satanic. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just don't let violent music cause violence.
He comes under such names as Satan, the Devil, Beelzebub, etc.
And no, rock n' roll isn't Satanic, it just depends on what the lyrics are and what you're exposing yourself to. Anything in this world could be looked at as potentially Satanic. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just don't let violent music cause violence.
I've heared that if you play the song Stairway to heaven backwards it becomes into a song to the devil! Is this thing true?
Heavymetal is considered as devilish music, I think so too! How about you SoulFire? 
Heavymetal is considered as devilish music, I think so too! How about you SoulFire?
Not so much Heavy Metal as Black Metal, Death Metal, Doom Metal... again, not inherently evil, but certainly more likely to have anti-christian lyrics. There are actually some pretty heavy christian bands, for a start.
And it turns out we missed a passage, looking again:
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [a]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15
Guess I was wrong.
Not really. If you play it backwards there are one or two bits which could possibly be heard as something like "Satan", if you were really listening for it.
Concidence, I'm sure.
| Quote: |
| Satan wasn't cast out of Heaven, Lucifer was. Lucifer was God's best angel, and in a rebellion against God (something which NOBODY can win), he was cast to Hell. |
And it turns out we missed a passage, looking again:
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [a]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15
Guess I was wrong.
| Quote: |
| I've heared that if you play the song Stairway to heaven backwards it becomes into a song to the devil! Is this thing true? |
Not really. If you play it backwards there are one or two bits which could possibly be heard as something like "Satan", if you were really listening for it.
Concidence, I'm sure.
Subsonic Sound is right, Lucifer's fall from Heaven is nowhere to be found in the Bible. It's an interpretation from Isiah 14:12-13, which really refers to a human king of Babylon, not an archangel, but which does makes reference to "morning star" (the king's honorific name), which people then like to think have a relation to "light bringer". The actual story, and any background on the archangel Lucifer, is more derived from John Milton and Dante than from anything in the bible. To be fair, he (as Lucifer or Satan) is also mentioned in some apocrypha - but we all know what Christians think of those.
As for rock music, whether it be heavy metal or rock'n'roll or whatever... Branding it "satanic" or "sinful" by definition, i.e. regardless of content, is just the conservative church's usual way of arbitrarily rendering as evil anything that doesn't conform or it doesn't understand.
Last edited by Kaneda on Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
As for rock music, whether it be heavy metal or rock'n'roll or whatever... Branding it "satanic" or "sinful" by definition, i.e. regardless of content, is just the conservative church's usual way of arbitrarily rendering as evil anything that doesn't conform or it doesn't understand.
Last edited by Kaneda on Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
| Whong wrote: |
| I've heared that if you play the song Stairway to heaven backwards it becomes into a song to the devil! Is this thing true?
Heavymetal is considered as devilish music, I think so too! How about you SoulFire? |
That's been around so long. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw it. Thanks for giving me something to laugh about.
Yeah I played it backwards myself and at one part here's exactly what it says..
-----
My sweet Satan
The one who's lonely road sometimes makes me sad
Who's power is Satan
He gives those with him
6 - 6 - 6
And remembers all the evil fools who made us suffer sadly
-----
If you speed it up or slow it down it sounds funny
Anyway, true story... My friend's grandma thinks that Christian rock music is calling the devil.... I have no clue what the logic behind that is XD
-----
My sweet Satan
The one who's lonely road sometimes makes me sad
Who's power is Satan
He gives those with him
6 - 6 - 6
And remembers all the evil fools who made us suffer sadly
-----
If you speed it up or slow it down it sounds funny
Anyway, true story... My friend's grandma thinks that Christian rock music is calling the devil.... I have no clue what the logic behind that is XD
As a Catholic, I actually follow part of the Apocrypha, but I've never actually read it through.
rock and roll isn't evil in itself, but there are some artists (?) who sing the praises of devil worship, violence, etc.,...and those I do consider evil, not rock and roll, just thier particular breed of it.
God gave rock and roll to you.
Gave rock and roll to you.
Put it in the soul of everyone.
See, once again Kiss prove their wisdom on matters of theological debate.
Gave rock and roll to you.
Put it in the soul of everyone.
See, once again Kiss prove their wisdom on matters of theological debate.
I don't consider rock and roll to be evil. And as someone already stated, it's the lyrics that are sung is what makes a song evil or not. Advocating violence, rape, things like that, yes that's evil to my way of thinking.
I grew up listening to the "Golden Oldies". It was what my parents prefer. When I got married, my husband preferred music from the 70's and 80's, what's now referred to as "Classic or Southern Rock". And yes, I live in the south. I myself prefer country. I can listen to almost anything and find some good in it. Big Band, Waltzes, Classical, Rock, Country, Gospel, Bluegrass. All of it has it's place in things. What I don't like is some of the new rock, it's personal taste, nothing against the artist or what they play, but to me, the guitars sound like 2 cats fighting.
Music, if used correctly, can bridge gaps between people. It can bring peace to a trouble heart. It can say what you're trying to say, but don't know how. On the other hand, music can be used to promote violence and destruction.
Music, any kind of music, is just a tool. How it is used makes it good or evil.
I grew up listening to the "Golden Oldies". It was what my parents prefer. When I got married, my husband preferred music from the 70's and 80's, what's now referred to as "Classic or Southern Rock". And yes, I live in the south. I myself prefer country. I can listen to almost anything and find some good in it. Big Band, Waltzes, Classical, Rock, Country, Gospel, Bluegrass. All of it has it's place in things. What I don't like is some of the new rock, it's personal taste, nothing against the artist or what they play, but to me, the guitars sound like 2 cats fighting.
Music, if used correctly, can bridge gaps between people. It can bring peace to a trouble heart. It can say what you're trying to say, but don't know how. On the other hand, music can be used to promote violence and destruction.
Music, any kind of music, is just a tool. How it is used makes it good or evil.
Uh, some of you folks do know that some artists take on a show biz persona and sing lyrics that are designed to intentionally get you all upset right? While they may not be model citizens by any strech of the imagination they are not really Satanists at all. However they do tend to get a lot of free publicity everytime some group or other gets all in a huff and denounces them. Since someone has gone to the trouble of pronouncing them EEEEEVIL their record sales automatically increase.
Then there is the fact that people don't really listen to the lyrics at all. If they here the keywords like satan, devil or anything at all that sounds demonic then they are ready to slap the evil label on it. An example of this would be Metalica which as far as I know has never recorded a song agrandizing satan in any way. They have done several songs against though. I guess they just sound EEEEEEEVIL. Then when I was a kid (a long time ago) conservative Christians were spreading the rumor that KISS stood for Knights in Satans Service. I guess the looked EEEEEEVIL. Speaking of looking evil, did you know that Pat Boone once did a recording consisting of Heavy Metal covers? Too bad he had the bad taste of showing up at the Grammy awards dressed up in leather to publicize his new recording. Conservative Christians everywhere were up in arms because Pat Boone had "turned to Satan". He actually wore a dog coller with his leather outfit. I just happened to catch his appology to all the Christians he offended on some Christian program. I saw Pat Boone at the Grammy's, I even heard a couple of the songs from the recording and all I can say is some folks need to get a life. Come on, it's Pat freakin' Boone. Of course back in the '50's when Rock and roll started it was different and it had girls gyrating lewdly (by '50's standards) so it was naturally EEEEEEVIL jungle music.
Let's face it. There are just a few loud mouthed ***holes that don't like things, don't try to understand it and call it EEEEEVIL. Then there are the people that are too lazy to think for themselves and are all too willing to let someone tell them what they should think so they don't have to understand anything. It's already been pigeon-holed for them by someone else. Now THAT'S what I call EEEEEVIL.
Then there is the fact that people don't really listen to the lyrics at all. If they here the keywords like satan, devil or anything at all that sounds demonic then they are ready to slap the evil label on it. An example of this would be Metalica which as far as I know has never recorded a song agrandizing satan in any way. They have done several songs against though. I guess they just sound EEEEEEEVIL. Then when I was a kid (a long time ago) conservative Christians were spreading the rumor that KISS stood for Knights in Satans Service. I guess the looked EEEEEEVIL. Speaking of looking evil, did you know that Pat Boone once did a recording consisting of Heavy Metal covers? Too bad he had the bad taste of showing up at the Grammy awards dressed up in leather to publicize his new recording. Conservative Christians everywhere were up in arms because Pat Boone had "turned to Satan". He actually wore a dog coller with his leather outfit. I just happened to catch his appology to all the Christians he offended on some Christian program. I saw Pat Boone at the Grammy's, I even heard a couple of the songs from the recording and all I can say is some folks need to get a life. Come on, it's Pat freakin' Boone. Of course back in the '50's when Rock and roll started it was different and it had girls gyrating lewdly (by '50's standards) so it was naturally EEEEEEVIL jungle music.
Let's face it. There are just a few loud mouthed ***holes that don't like things, don't try to understand it and call it EEEEEVIL. Then there are the people that are too lazy to think for themselves and are all too willing to let someone tell them what they should think so they don't have to understand anything. It's already been pigeon-holed for them by someone else. Now THAT'S what I call EEEEEVIL.
I understand fully that many artists create a "public persona", but if the persona makes people think devil (for lack of a better term) worship and or violence is cool....then YES they are evil. For the simple reason they promote this kind of activity just to make some $$$.
When you really think about it what could be more evil? The person who actually believes and practices a differant religion (I say religion because most of them are recognized as such), or the hypocrite who only panders to the masses to sell albums?
Flame me as you will.
When you really think about it what could be more evil? The person who actually believes and practices a differant religion (I say religion because most of them are recognized as such), or the hypocrite who only panders to the masses to sell albums?
Flame me as you will.
| Kaneda wrote: |
| Subsonic Sound is right, Lucifer's fall from Heaven is nowhere to be found in the Bible. It's an interpretation from Isiah 14:12-13, which really refers to a human king of Babylon, not an archangel, but which does makes reference to "morning star" (the king's honorific name), which people then like to think have a relation to "light bringer". The actual story, and any background on the archangel Lucifer, is more derived from John Milton and Dante than from anything in the bible. To be fair, he (as Lucifer or Satan) is also mentioned in some apocrypha - but we all know what Christians think of those. |
Sorry to disapoint you but check this out!
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
What do you say about that!
The most evil? How about the hypocrite that understands exactly what is going on and panders to the fears of others, spreading disinformation, just so he looks a little better when he holds his hand out for the little old ladies life savings.
| Tex_Arcana wrote: |
| The most evil? How about the hypocrite that understands exactly what is going on and panders to the fears of others, spreading disinformation, just so he looks a little better when he holds his hand out for the little old ladies life savings. |
Granted, that is a most evil thing to do, but with all the evil going on in the world today it's very difficult to say one thing is more evil than another.
Evil is Evil, in all it's forms and giuses. Keep in mind also that the most evil person you could ever meet cloakes himself/herself in good deeds.
"The biggest joke Satan ever played was to make the world wonder if he ever existed at all"
| Whong wrote: |
| Sorry to disapoint you but check this out!
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! What do you say about that! |
Check it out? It's the exact verse I mentioned above. I already "checked it out".
And did you even bother to read the post? "What do I say about that"? I say exactly what you quoted me as saying.
If you've managed to find any modern text translating hebrew "helel" as "Lucifer", you're quite in luck - or you simply went the easy way and picked up King James, which is not translating hebrew at all.
Read the original Hebrew, and you'll see that Isaiah 14:12 is part of a "mocking song" - and prophecy - about Babylon and a Babylonian king, starting at the very beginning of the chapter - and ending (guess what) at the end of it. I'd sure hope that any Christian would consider the Hebrew original closer to "the word of God" than an English translation (*) from a Latin (Vulgate) translation of a Greek translation (the Septuagint) of the torah, which was written in Hebrew.
*) King James' Bible - where this whole idea of Lucifer as Satan originated
I'll just expand on it (don't know why I bother, since I doubt this would actually manage to convince any Christian about anything to do with his belief. Nevertheless, could be educational, and I might be surprised for once):
The hebrew word "helel" as a noun means approximately "star of day". The babylonian king is described as "Helel ben Shahar", "Helel, son of Shahar", which would mean "star of day, son of dawn" - normal honorific titles for a king.
The first part of this was translated into greek to became "heosphoros", meaning, "bringer of dawn" or "the planet Venus in the morning", "the morning star". Lucifer is a direct translation of this, into a word meaning "bringer of light" and is also an old latin word for the planet Venus, or the "morning star".
You'll also find the word "hell" in verse 15 of the King James Bible. "Sheol", however, doesn't mean "hell". It means "where dead people go", nothing more, nothing less. It's a poetic way of saying "he's dead/buried", not "he's gone to hell". Judaism - and the Torah - don't even have a clear concept of hell - or heaven for that matter. That's a Christian invention. If you ask a Jewish philosopher, the nature of these two "places" or if they're even separate, is constantly debated (except that most Jewish people are more concerned with this life, and don't bother as much with the "after-life" as most Christians do - i.e., they'll know when they get there).
So, the only two words that can possibly make any connection to Satan rather than the king that this text is about... are gone. Now try reading it again - from verse 1.
Finally, to show the absurdity of even believing that verse of Isaiah has anything to do with Satan... The Greek had two (actually three) words for Venus:
- "Heosphoros" - "bringer of dawn" - "morning star". Latin: Lucifer
- "Phosphoros" - "bringer of light" - "evening star".
Romans at that time didn't have two, so... they'd translate both as "Lucifer".
"Heosphoros" was the word we looked at above. And what's "Phosphoros" then? That's the exact word Peter in his second Epistle uses in the original Greek to describe... Jesus:
| Quote: |
| 1:19 And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: |
So, we're almost there... The exact same latin translation where Lucifer first appeared - the Vulgate... How did it translate this verse?
| Quote: |
| 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris |
So, that's supposed to mean "until the day dawn, and Lucifer arise in your hearts"??? Sheds some new light on Peter for sure...
D**n, if more Christians would actually bother reading their precious scripture in context...
| Vrythramax wrote: | ||
Granted, that is a most evil thing to do, but with all the evil going on in the world today it's very difficult to say one thing is more evil than another. Evil is Evil, in all it's forms and giuses. Keep in mind also that the most evil person you could ever meet cloakes himself/herself in good deeds. "The biggest joke Satan ever played was to make the world wonder if he ever existed at all" |
Aren't they both doing the same thing, promoting something they may or may not believe in just to make money. I can state all day that I'm the world's most perfect Christian. Stating it doesn't make it true wheither I believe it or not.
It was stated earlier that most people don't listen to the lyrics and your absolutely correct. Most people don't, I'm not one of those. I like to sing along, which I usually do and look like a completely idiot while I'm doing it, but it's fun to sing along with the radio.
What's even more fun, is watching my kids do this. My youngest son is fun to watch while he's singing along with a song. The good thing is, he sounds better than I do. Don't believe me? Ask him.
Seriously though, I do wish more people would listen to the whole song instead of picking out a word or two here and there and making a snap judgement on it. Remember when all that stuff about the Harry Potter books was going on? Instead of believing someone else's opinion on it, I read the books and made up my mind about them. They're actually a pretty good set of books. I enjoyed reading them. It's the same old story line of good vs evil. What's the harm in that?
| Kaneda wrote: | ||||||
Check it out? It's the exact verse I mentioned above. I already "checked it out". And did you even bother to read the post? "What do I say about that"? I say exactly what you quoted me as saying. If you've managed to find any modern text translating hebrew "helel" as "Lucifer", you're quite in luck - or you simply went the easy way and picked up King James, which is not translating hebrew at all. Read the original Hebrew, and you'll see that Isaiah 14:12 is part of a "mocking song" - and prophecy - about Babylon and a Babylonian king, starting at the very beginning of the chapter - and ending (guess what) at the end of it. I'd sure hope that any Christian would consider the Hebrew original closer to "the word of God" than an English translation (*) from a Latin (Vulgate) translation of a Greek translation (the Septuagint) of the torah, which was written in Hebrew. *) King James' Bible - where this whole idea of Lucifer as Satan originated I'll just expand on it (don't know why I bother, since I doubt this would actually manage to convince any Christian about anything to do with his belief. Nevertheless, could be educational, and I might be surprised for once): The hebrew word "helel" as a noun means approximately "star of day". The babylonian king is described as "Helel ben Shahar", "Helel, son of Shahar", which would mean "star of day, son of dawn" - normal honorific titles for a king. The first part of this was translated into greek to became "heosphoros", meaning, "bringer of dawn" or "the planet Venus in the morning", "the morning star". Lucifer is a direct translation of this, into a word meaning "bringer of light" and is also an old latin word for the planet Venus, or the "morning star". You'll also find the word "hell" in verse 15 of the King James Bible. "Sheol", however, doesn't mean "hell". It means "where dead people go", nothing more, nothing less. It's a poetic way of saying "he's dead/buried", not "he's gone to hell". Judaism - and the Torah - don't even have a clear concept of hell - or heaven for that matter. That's a Christian invention. If you ask a Jewish philosopher, the nature of these two "places" or if they're even separate, is constantly debated (except that most Jewish people are more concerned with this life, and don't bother as much with the "after-life" as most Christians do - i.e., they'll know when they get there). So, the only two words that can possibly make any connection to Satan rather than the king that this text is about... are gone. Now try reading it again - from verse 1. Finally, to show the absurdity of even believing that verse of Isaiah has anything to do with Satan... The Greek had two (actually three) words for Venus: - "Heosphoros" - "bringer of dawn" - "morning star". Latin: Lucifer - "Phosphoros" - "bringer of light" - "evening star". Romans at that time didn't have two, so... they'd translate both as "Lucifer". "Heosphoros" was the word we looked at above. And what's "Phosphoros" then? That's the exact word Peter in his second Epistle uses in the original Greek to describe... Jesus:
So, we're almost there... The exact same latin translation where Lucifer first appeared - the Vulgate... How did it translate this verse?
So, that's supposed to mean "until the day dawn, and Lucifer arise in your hearts"??? Sheds some new light on Peter for sure... D**n, if more Christians would actually bother reading their precious scripture in context... |
King James Bible is one of the most authentic bibles in English! The newer bibles aren't as good! Many great preachers and pastors quote the king James bible. How can anyone human fall from heaven, only someone who is in heaven can fall from there!
| livilou wrote: | ||||
Aren't they both doing the same thing, promoting something they may or may not believe in just to make money. I can state all day that I'm the world's most perfect Christian. Stating it doesn't make it true wheither I believe it or not. It was stated earlier that most people don't listen to the lyrics and your absolutely correct. Most people don't, I'm not one of those. I like to sing along, which I usually do and look like a completely idiot while I'm doing it, but it's fun to sing along with the radio. What's even more fun, is watching my kids do this. My youngest son is fun to watch while he's singing along with a song. The good thing is, he sounds better than I do. Don't believe me? Ask him.
Seriously though, I do wish more people would listen to the whole song instead of picking out a word or two here and there and making a snap judgement on it. Remember when all that stuff about the Harry Potter books was going on? Instead of believing someone else's opinion on it, I read the books and made up my mind about them. They're actually a pretty good set of books. I enjoyed reading them. It's the same old story line of good vs evil. What's the harm in that? |
Since you qouted me I feel I must respond. Rock-and-Roll is not NOT evil untue itself, some artists may use it as either a means of getting thier point accross, or just using it as a album selling ploy.
Music is not evil....even Mozart agreed with that statement. (But then again he was a bit "buggy")....but the statement still holds true.
You're correct. Music in and of itself isn't evil. It's a tool. How it is used by a person or group of people is what makes it good or evil.
This is only my point of view and don't expect others to agree with me though.
This is only my point of view and don't expect others to agree with me though.
| Whong wrote: |
| King James Bible is one of the most authentic bibles in English! The newer bibles aren't as good! Many great preachers and pastors quote the king James bible. How can anyone human fall from heaven, only someone who is in heaven can fall from there! |
The only thing making the King James version "authentic" is its being the oldest still existing translation. Its accuracy in translation is deplorable, and it even (purposefully) omits and even adds entire sentences... The only reason "great" preachers and pastors quote it is that it's familiar to a huge percentage of English-speaking Christians. In other words, it's tradition.
The Hebrew word shamayim - often translated to "Heaven" isn't specific to the concept of heaven as paradise or abode of God. It simply means "heights", "elevations", "high places", both figuratively and literally. A human can be in - and fall from - "high places" in Hebrew, in the exact same way that humans can claim to know "people in high places" in English.
Another (and yet related) explanation would be that the king of Babylon erected himself as God of the Babylonians - godly status like, say, the Japanese emperor used to have. Here, his fall from "heights/heaven" means his fall from self-assumed godhood. Face it... The only thing in those verses pointing at a fallen angel going by the name of Lucifer is a wrong translation almost 400 years by English bible translators who were not even translating from the original language. Nothing else supports that reading.
with all due respect, your reply belongs in a differant (sp?) forum. I only say this as due to your obvious(sp? again) religious convictions.
Where's a moderator when you need one? c'mon Frihost.
Where's a moderator when you need one? c'mon Frihost.
My apologies for for my prvious post, this is the correct forum....I am sorry.
| Vrythramax wrote: |
| My apologies for for my prvious post, this is the correct forum....I am sorry. |
Erm... OK... And what would my "obvious religious convictions" be?
Must admit I'm a bit baffled here... Yes, the reply doesn't discuss Rock music. It still adresses Yantaal's original post about Satan getting kicked from heaven for playing rock music (wherever that comes from
). Both questions (Satan as a fallen angel and rock music being "the devil's music") relate very much to how some people like to interpret the bible in whatever way the feel, and use Christianity as an excuse for condemning anything they don't like or understand.
I'm not even sure how the post could belong in any other forum, no matter what my religious convictions might be (which, to now answer the question myself, would be "no religious convictions whatsoever"). I just want to know what I've said to cause you to feel a moderator should be involved
| Kaneda wrote: | ||
Erm... OK... And what would my "obvious religious convictions" be?
Must admit I'm a bit baffled here... Yes, the reply doesn't discuss Rock music. It still adresses Yantaal's original post about Satan getting kicked from heaven for playing rock music (wherever that comes from ). Both questions (Satan as a fallen angel and rock music being "the devil's music") relate very much to how some people like to interpret the bible in whatever way the feel, and use Christianity as an excuse for condemning anything they don't like or understand.
I'm not even sure how the post could belong in any other forum, no matter what my religious convictions might be (which, to now answer the question myself, would be "no religious convictions whatsoever"). I just want to know what I've said to cause you to feel a moderator should be involved |
good lord you opened a can of live worms there, and I have no wish to get involved in a religious debate with you...My response was only intended to exemplify your religious bielifs (sp?) ....I certaianly meant no disrespect. And if may have given any , I humbly apologize.It is some of the artists that are maybe but bands for example like 12 doors down,switchfoot etc plus many more are great examples of how rock music can be played by christians and non christians music is a form of expression just like relgion so do not take that away from people also it normally comes from death metal the bad lyrics that encourage violence and devil worship which I do not agree with but lets face it can we stop them only if we tell people to stay clear of those certain bands and take away those bands popularity.So please help do this if you really do not want bad messages to spread thourgh a global form of expression
Rock and roll isn't evil thats just a wives tale spread by people who don't like loud music ^_~
but seriously, most of the stuff that you hear in "satanic rock" doesn't even need to be taken seriously, because I'll bet alot of them don't beleive it, they are just trying to make money or a scene
but seriously, most of the stuff that you hear in "satanic rock" doesn't even need to be taken seriously, because I'll bet alot of them don't beleive it, they are just trying to make money or a scene
bah, Rock n' Roll ain't evil, it depends which band, I'm a christian and I listen to rock..
not all rock music are bad..
not all rock music are bad..
Led Zepplin
Being a devoted desciple of Music I feel a need to defend Rock 'n Roll. My friends I throw into evidence "The Blues Brothers" 
Also being devoted deciples of Music and pursuing a self proclaimed "...mission from God", They sought out to change the world through one great rock 'n roll show.
Music as we seem to all agree has been used as a means to influence peoples emotions. During the '60's into the '70's there was a backlash and a questioning of ideals that occured. amongst these ideals religion was extreamly questioned. Music was just one of the ways that this backlash was expressed, and most notably by the persons portraying the rebels to society. Young people of the day related to the emotion being portrayed through music and thus embraced it. As music that envokes joy and celebration has throughout the ages always been considered 'devil' music so was it labeled in the '60's and '70's.
But we seem also to agree that certain people within the industry who may be rooted in Evil doings may influence Music. This is true, and I might be pursuaded to say that the "Devil" is involved. I would say that it wouldn't be the inspiration that an artist has recieved through divine means and then interputs the music and lays it out on paper. No, rather it is the large Music Executive that manipulates and controls the media coverage of the band. The Executive that manipulates an artist with lyrics written by some think tank and exploits that artist like a prostitute on a stage. This I feel is Evil. So I would conclude by saying just like anything look closely to the behind the scenes workings as they often hide evil agendas.
Also being devoted deciples of Music and pursuing a self proclaimed "...mission from God", They sought out to change the world through one great rock 'n roll show.
Music as we seem to all agree has been used as a means to influence peoples emotions. During the '60's into the '70's there was a backlash and a questioning of ideals that occured. amongst these ideals religion was extreamly questioned. Music was just one of the ways that this backlash was expressed, and most notably by the persons portraying the rebels to society. Young people of the day related to the emotion being portrayed through music and thus embraced it. As music that envokes joy and celebration has throughout the ages always been considered 'devil' music so was it labeled in the '60's and '70's.
But we seem also to agree that certain people within the industry who may be rooted in Evil doings may influence Music. This is true, and I might be pursuaded to say that the "Devil" is involved. I would say that it wouldn't be the inspiration that an artist has recieved through divine means and then interputs the music and lays it out on paper. No, rather it is the large Music Executive that manipulates and controls the media coverage of the band. The Executive that manipulates an artist with lyrics written by some think tank and exploits that artist like a prostitute on a stage. This I feel is Evil. So I would conclude by saying just like anything look closely to the behind the scenes workings as they often hide evil agendas.
Naah, seems interesting. Once I found a website, where was a list of 'satanic' rock bands. The list included Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, System of a down, AC/DC, Knights in Satans Service of course, Metallica, Sting (I still wonder why him ) and a lot of polish pop-rock bands (it was a polish website).
One thing that surprised me a lot was why didn't they put there Iron Maiden (who obviously sings "666 the number of the beast", so they didn't even have to search for satanic words), or Cradle of Filth (who are more funny than scary, though they try hard ). Omitting such two important bands they had spoiled the joke, as everyone soon realised that the list was made just for fun.
However, there is one thing that we should remember. Though rock/metal/grindcore/whatever isn't evil itself, it's been scientifically proved that listening to really heavy music for a long time may make you more aggresive. I noticed this on the example of my brother, who after going to bed with Kill 'Em All album only, started having dreams about killing everybody around, which appeared everyday. When he went to bed listening to classical, the dreams disappeared
) and a lot of polish pop-rock bands (it was a polish website).
One thing that surprised me a lot was why didn't they put there Iron Maiden (who obviously sings "666 the number of the beast", so they didn't even have to search for satanic words
), or Cradle of Filth (who are more funny than scary, though they try hard ). Omitting such two important bands they had spoiled the joke, as everyone soon realised that the list was made just for fun.
However, there is one thing that we should remember. Though rock/metal/grindcore/whatever isn't evil itself, it's been scientifically proved that listening to really heavy music for a long time may make you more aggresive. I noticed this on the example of my brother, who after going to bed with Kill 'Em All album only, started having dreams about killing everybody around, which appeared everyday. When he went to bed listening to classical, the dreams disappeared
give me a break ralphbefree...I am the singer for a band, and I also write the music (and songs), I never thought I could "change the world" through a good show. Just not possible.
| onetime8225 wrote: |
| It is some of the artists that are maybe but bands for example like 12 doors down,switchfoot etc plus many more are great examples of how rock music can be played by christians and non christians music is a form of expression just like relgion so do not take that away from people also it normally comes from death metal the bad lyrics that encourage violence and devil worship which I do not agree with but lets face it can we stop them only if we tell people to stay clear of those certain bands and take away those bands popularity.So please help do this if you really do not want bad messages to spread thourgh a global form of expression |
The best way to deal with bad music is to ignore it. Telling people to not listen to a certain band or style of music has the opposite effect, and only gives free pubicity which is the point behind doing these things anyway. I'm pretty sure some marketing genius for KISS probably started calling up fundementalist preachers to tell them that KISS satands for Knights In Satans Service just for the free pubicity.
Robert Plant commented on this topic once, “It all goes back to Robert Johnson”. There are more than a dozen rock and roll songs about Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil at the “Cross Roads” in order to acquire his musical talent. Similarly, Paganini was widely alleged to have sold his soul to acquire his seemingly inhumanly fast violin virtuosity. Looking back still farther there are the Greek Muses. Muses are not inherently either good or evil, they could be either. In that sense Robert Johnson and Paganini became evil muses who are commonly invoked by many modern musicians. A very small portion do it intentionally, but most are not really aware of what they are doing.
A friend who is an extremely talented guitarist with no spiritual beliefs once commented on the topic, that there are certain chord progressions that are called “power chords” which he felt did indeed have enormous power and he had some feeling that it was evil. He said that when playing power chords it felt like he was standing at the alter of an evil church and invoking its power. It hardly stopped him from playing rock and roll, but he did think that there was something to it.
A friend who is an extremely talented guitarist with no spiritual beliefs once commented on the topic, that there are certain chord progressions that are called “power chords” which he felt did indeed have enormous power and he had some feeling that it was evil. He said that when playing power chords it felt like he was standing at the alter of an evil church and invoking its power. It hardly stopped him from playing rock and roll, but he did think that there was something to it.
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Robert Plant commented on this topic once, “It all goes back to Robert Johnson”. There are more than a dozen rock and roll songs about Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil at the “Cross Roads” in order to acquire his musical talent. Similarly, Paganini was widely alleged to have sold his soul to acquire his seemingly inhumanly fast violin virtuosity. Looking back still farther there are the Greek Muses. Muses are not inherently either good or evil, they could be either. In that sense Robert Johnson and Paganini became evil muses who are commonly invoked by many modern musicians. A very small portion do it intentionally, but most are not really aware of what they are doing.
A friend who is an extremely talented guitarist with no spiritual beliefs once commented on the topic, that there are certain chord progressions that are called “power chords” which he felt did indeed have enormous power and he had some feeling that it was evil. He said that when playing power chords it felt like he was standing at the alter of an evil church and invoking its power. It hardly stopped him from playing rock and roll, but he did think that there was something to it. |
sooo true, I bare my soul nightly...just as he did.
EDIT..sigh.
Vrythramax you are the leader of a band and you are not aware of your ability to control the emotions of those in your audience with your music? You are not aware that all those people down in that audience are opening up thier conciousness to be influenced by your songs. The people will then take your influence and it will become a small part of every decision that they make. This the secret!!!
The bible says that music was created by the decendents of Cain after he left his native land and built a great city Enoch named after his son. These same decendents are the same that where fornicated with by fallen angels. The union of human and angels created what the bible call the Men of Renown.
Did the angels, who knew of the secrets of music, share thier knowledge with their offspring? If so then it is rightly to say that music is Divine. This would explain the "power chord" phenomnia. To say this would mean that music more than Evil or Good it is Divine.
Music is the language of the universe. Without getting into illuminati conpiracies and the classic fight between good and evil I will just surmise that perhaps there are people with evil intentions that know of secrets that the common person does not know and they use those secrets to their advantage mainly to make money.
Why would the book that has the most sales ever be a religious work and the yet religious music is just a small percentage of the over all music industry? Because of the people that are in charge of the producing that music and the type of music that they promote.
As for "one good show" not being able to change the world I propose the following evidence:
Woodstock
Montery Pop Festival
Live Aid
The bible says that music was created by the decendents of Cain after he left his native land and built a great city Enoch named after his son. These same decendents are the same that where fornicated with by fallen angels. The union of human and angels created what the bible call the Men of Renown.
Did the angels, who knew of the secrets of music, share thier knowledge with their offspring? If so then it is rightly to say that music is Divine. This would explain the "power chord" phenomnia. To say this would mean that music more than Evil or Good it is Divine.
Music is the language of the universe. Without getting into illuminati conpiracies and the classic fight between good and evil I will just surmise that perhaps there are people with evil intentions that know of secrets that the common person does not know and they use those secrets to their advantage mainly to make money.
Why would the book that has the most sales ever be a religious work and the yet religious music is just a small percentage of the over all music industry? Because of the people that are in charge of the producing that music and the type of music that they promote.
As for "one good show" not being able to change the world I propose the following evidence:
Woodstock
Montery Pop Festival
Live Aid
Just to throw a little info on this "power chord" thing. It simply is a way to avoid dissonance at high power settings. Max, correct me if this is wrong. Quoting from Wiki:
As to the backwards Led Zep thing, there seems to be evidence that it was a hoax. Check out this link for more hoax
Rock Satanic? Like most generalizations, it is not true as a blanket statement. Some is, most isn't.
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The term arose among rock guitarists, who found that such a note combination (arrived at by omitting the interval of a third from major and minor chords) allowed for much greater levels of distortion and 'power' without causing the instability and dissonance associated with all other chords played at similarly high distortion levels; while, at the same time, preserving the chord's diatonic functionality. |
As to the backwards Led Zep thing, there seems to be evidence that it was a hoax. Check out this link for more hoax
Rock Satanic? Like most generalizations, it is not true as a blanket statement. Some is, most isn't.
Yeah, let me just say again that music is not evil. Music is just the notes. It's the words and lyrics you're exposed to, that can be evil. Have you ever heard of Pillar? They're a Christian heavy rock band... and I mean, REALLY heavy, but their lyrics glorify God.... so the music isn't the issue.
@HoboPelican
no correction needed.
@ralphbefree
thanks for putting me out there, I have never mentioned that part of my life in these forums. Yes I do indeed fully understand how music, and proper lyrics sung the way they are supposed to be, can affect people, I have watched them cry, scream, rail against the wind, and even try to beat the crap out of each other.
no correction needed.
@ralphbefree
thanks for putting me out there, I have never mentioned that part of my life in these forums. Yes I do indeed fully understand how music, and proper lyrics sung the way they are supposed to be, can affect people, I have watched them cry, scream, rail against the wind, and even try to beat the crap out of each other.
| Quote: |
| A friend who is an extremely talented guitarist with no spiritual beliefs once commented on the topic, that there are certain chord progressions that are called “power chords” which he felt did indeed have enormous power and he had some feeling that it was evil. He said that when playing power chords it felt like he was standing at the alter of an evil church and invoking its power. It hardly stopped him from playing rock and roll, but he did think that there was something to it. |
Ok.
I've been an obsessive internet user for over a decade now. We got an internet connection in 1996, before most families. I've been a regular forum user for a lot of that time. In fact, by now I'm an administrator on the largest music forum around.
I've read a lot of crap, is the point I'm trying to make.
But here, you really take the gold medal.
This evil, sinister Power Chord of which you speak is the most basic chord in guitar playing. Root, octave and fifth. I'll be amazed if you can find me a christian rock band - or christian FOLK band - hell, just a christian band who've never used this most satanic of note combinations.
I would also doubt that this friend of yours is such a great guitarist if he thinks a power chord is a form of progression. It's simple a strong sounding, relatively tension free chord (in the 12TET system, at least) which can be very easily played in the popular DADGBE tuning.
Honestly, it sounds like your friend is having you on, extremely pretentious, or extremely high.
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