http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060406105909990005&cid=2194
Title says it all, I didn't feel like posting it all here b/c it's a few pages long =/ thank you thank you.. thank you... so much... thanks.. for sharing... I read it.. its a great news...
Thats all a piece of trash, that script was found hundreds of years after Jesus' death. Haven't you read the bible. It says that after Judas had betrayed Jesus, he felt so bad that he gave back the money and later hanged him self!
If 4 gospels say that Judas betrayed Jesus and one says that Jesus asked to be betrayed than those 4 prove that 1 wrong! 
So don't believe all the trash that is in the air! 
I think it's rather interesting. I would like to state that the rest of what I'm going to say I do not adhere to and that it is merely conjecture on my part and not something I believe to be entirely true. Truth is I haven’t decided on it myself. I do however think that it’s funny that for some reason anti-Christians seem to think it proves Jesus “wrong” somehow, and that Christians for the most part accept that it would and start arguing against the text itself.
Onto the conjecture;
Would it matter if Jesus asked Judas to betray him? Notice how everyone in the upper room stated something like OH no I would never betray you lord. Then when Jesus tells them all that Judas will be the one to do it no one freaks out? Why is that? Could it be that he was telling Judas to betray him? One thing I would like to point out is that IF Jesus asked Judas to betray him it changes NOTHING of the fundamentals of Christianity. Which is essentially what does it take to become a Christian?
1. Recognize you have sinned. (Romans 6:23)
2. Know that Jesus died on the cross to PAY for the sins you have committed (John 19:31-33)
3. Acknowledge that after 3 days he rose again. (Mark 16:6)
4. Ask for Jesus/Holy Spirit to come into your life and rule as your lord and savior.
And it’s also possible that it’s required for you to publicly state that you are a Christian, which is the main purpose of baptism.
I think that it is mostly a knee jerk reaction to the whole thing. What I would disagree about are the other theories because of this that arise that start talking about how this certain Jew (jesus) could have conned everyone into thinking he was God.
| Whong wrote: |
Thats all a piece of trash, that script was found hundreds of years after Jesus' death. Haven't you read the bible. It says that after Judas had betrayed Jesus, he felt so bad that he gave back the money and later hanged him self!
If 4 gospels say that Judas betrayed Jesus and one says that Jesus asked to be betrayed than those 4 prove that 1 wrong!
So don't believe all the trash that is in the air! |
Truth is democratic now?
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised. But then, I'm an extremely cynical atheist. I think Jesus did exist, and that he was a very talented stage magician and illusionist. A lot of his miracles seem pretty on par with the works of modern illusionists and magicians. And what better way to get fame than a high publicity execution, with a healthy dose of drama? People like drama.
Why is it, after rising from the grave, he only appeared to his most dedicated followers? Why are people convinced by that? | Subsonic Sound wrote: |
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised. But then, I'm an extremely cynical atheist. I think Jesus did exist, and that he was a very talented stage magician and illusionist. A lot of his miracles seem pretty on par with the works of modern illusionists and magicians. And what better way to get fame than a high publicity execution, with a healthy dose of drama? People like drama.
Why is it, after rising from the grave, he only appeared to his most dedicated followers? Why are people convinced by that? |
He wasn't a magician or illusionist, He was the one and only Son of God!
He appeared to his followers to show them that what He told about Himself was true! Magicians use the powers of darkness, the devil's power, but Jesus used the power of God!
That is the truth, so believe it! 
| Whong wrote: |
He wasn't a magician or illusionist, He was the one and only Son of God!
He appeared to his followers to show them that what He told about Himself was true! Magicians use the powers of darkness, the devil's power, but Jesus used the power of God!
That is the truth, so believe it! |
No. 
Magicians don't use the power of darkness, they use sleight of hand and trickery. And I have no reason at all not to believe Jesus did too. It's just showmanship. | Subsonic Sound wrote: |
No.
Magicians don't use the power of darkness, they use sleight of hand and trickery. And I have no reason at all not to believe Jesus did too. It's just showmanship. |
'
Do you think that a man with leprosy or a blind man, lame man, or a crippled could be healed using sleight of hand and trickery. I don't think so. And don't go on telling me that they acted blind or crippled, because I wonät velieve that!
Give me an explanation on how could these miracles hapen without God's power! Curing blindness or lameness are standards for snake-oil sellers and miracle-cure hucksters, along with TV Evangelists and the like. It's very easy to pretend to be blind, after all.
Leprosy is a lot harder to fake, admittedly. But once you start developing a buzz, rumour will often do the rest. Rumour is a powerful thing, especially in a world based so heavily on oral communication, with no universal news services or anything like that. My first thought on curing leprosy would be that he never did - that the rumour mills of the ancient world just attributed that to him.
After all, how do you know he cured a leper?
| Subsonic Sound wrote: |
After all, how do you know he cured a leper? |
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Matthew 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole. But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
There it is, now if you still don't believe then you can't tell on that day that no one told you! God loves you, can't you see how he is using different people to try and catch you! In God's eye you are very precious, more than gold or silver or diamonds, but you have to choose now, either believe in Him or not! God loves you, turn while you still can!
So we're supposed to believe he was the son of god and cured people because a really old book written thousands of years ago about a carpenter says so? 
| OtakuBoi wrote: |
| So we're supposed to believe he was the son of god and cured people because a really old book written thousands of years ago about a carpenter says so? |
It's called "Faith" my friend.The idea that Judas betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request has been floated around forever. (I remember a particularly good short story about Judas being reincarnated as a super-intelligent gorilla and arguing as much. The story was called "Silver" but I can't remember the author.) If Jesus was God then there was no way he was surprised, so he was at least tacitly consenting to it.
Without the betrayal, the most important Christian event would not have taken place. So Judas had to betray Jesus for God's plan to work out. Satan wouldn't have wanted God's plan to work out, so he wouldn't have been interested in furthering that plan. Assuming he was smart enough to forsee the consequences of tempting Judas (And come on, how could he not have known? What, he thought God himself could be executed by crucifying the human form he had temporarily taken on? He couldn't imagine that a man could be made a martyr by such a betrayal and subsequent execution?), he should have gone out of his way to not cause the betrayal. Therefore, it's quite logical that in order to further the plan, Jesus would have actively coerced Judas to betray him.
| Subsonic Sound wrote: |
| Whong wrote: | Thats all a piece of trash, that script was found hundreds of years after Jesus' death. Haven't you read the bible. It says that after Judas had betrayed Jesus, he felt so bad that he gave back the money and later hanged him self!
If 4 gospels say that Judas betrayed Jesus and one says that Jesus asked to be betrayed than those 4 prove that 1 wrong!
So don't believe all the trash that is in the air! |
Truth is democratic now?
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised. But then, I'm an extremely cynical atheist. I think Jesus did exist, and that he was a very talented stage magician and illusionist. A lot of his miracles seem pretty on par with the works of modern illusionists and magicians. And what better way to get fame than a high publicity execution, with a healthy dose of drama? People like drama.
Why is it, after rising from the grave, he only appeared to his most dedicated followers? Why are people convinced by that? |
He appeared to more than 700 people when He was ascending back to Heaven, plus, He stayed in Israel for more than a month after His death and resurrection and if you study history, there are a lot of claims of people in Jerusalem, non-believers and believers alike who have claimed to have seen Jesus after His crucifixtion.
The thing is, you only have two choice. Either call Him a crazy liar or, call Him your Lord. Besides, He did claim that he
- is the Son of God
- the King of the Jews
- is able to forgive sins
- is the only way to the Father
- would die and come back to life in three days
- would come back to judge
- is able to offer enternal life
If Jesus really is a liar or a lunatic, then
- why are people coming to Him everyday, experiencing His love
- why is His word so relevant to our society? (how could a liar or a madman change society so much, even influencing the greatest minds in our contemporary work, 2000 years after his death?)
- why would he risk dying on the cross? think about it. let's say he really a liar, then he would admit his wrongdoings before the court. if he really did, however, die, he is not just a liar but a fool.
- that would make him the biggest hypocrite on earth. he taught humans to love their neigbours and enemies, not to lie, to act right in the eye of God, about integrity, etc.
- what did he hope to accomplish?
However, what if Jesus is really who he claimed to have been?
| Quote: |
| C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity": I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A Man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic . . . or else He would be the Devil of Hell. |
Every story has two (or more) sides. Perhaps when Jesus told Judas "You will betray me 3 times", Judas thought that Jesus was telling him to betray Jesus, and that is how it was written in his "gospel".
To contradict myself, Judas (to my knowledge, it's been awhile since I've read the gospels) accepted the money to betray Jesus before the Last Supper, and it was at the Last Supper that Jesus told Judas he would betray him.
I'm curious, why isn't anyone talking about the gospel of Mary? Mary Magdalen wasn't the prostitute most people thought she was. In fact, she was the "leader" of the apostles, and Jesus frequently spoke to her and confided in her, in essence, keeping "secrets" from the other apostles. Many people get her and the sinner who washes Jesus' feet confused.
And apparently, Mary and Peter had some intense rivalry and frequently fought for leadership over the apostles.
But maybe we shouldn't get started on that...
| Soulfire wrote: |
I'm curious, why isn't anyone talking about the gospel of Mary? Mary Magdalen wasn't the prostitute most people thought she was. In fact, she was the "leader" of the apostles, and Jesus frequently spoke to her and confided in her, in essence, keeping "secrets" from the other apostles. Many people get her and the sinner who washes Jesus' feet confused.
And apparently, Mary and Peter had some intense rivalry and frequently fought for leadership over the apostles.
But maybe we shouldn't get started on that... |
Which of course leads to the question of why hasn't anyone mentioned the Gospel of Peter. ^_- (Or, hell, the Gospel of Thomas?)We have 4 gospels and in my opinion we don't need more!
These are what God wants us to know!
The gospel of Judas was written in 100 - 300 AD so it can't be Judas that wrote it! | Soulfire wrote: |
Every story has two (or more) sides. Perhaps when Jesus told Judas "You will betray me 3 times", Judas thought that Jesus was telling him to betray Jesus, and that is how it was written in his "gospel".
To contradict myself, Judas (to my knowledge, it's been awhile since I've read the gospels) accepted the money to betray Jesus before the Last Supper, and it was at the Last Supper that Jesus told Judas he would betray him.
I'm curious, why isn't anyone talking about the gospel of Mary? Mary Magdalen wasn't the prostitute most people thought she was. In fact, she was the "leader" of the apostles, and Jesus frequently spoke to her and confided in her, in essence, keeping "secrets" from the other apostles. Many people get her and the sinner who washes Jesus' feet confused.
And apparently, Mary and Peter had some intense rivalry and frequently fought for leadership over the apostles.
But maybe we shouldn't get started on that... |
Mary was a prositute before she was saved by the love of Christ.
Hm.. aren't you getting it confused with Peter and Paul? I thought, and read, it was Paul and Peter who had difficulties not with Mary. Plus, Mary does not appear a lot after the Gospels.
One more note, as stated before, the so-called "Gospels" could not have been the work of Judas since it has been dated to almost 130 years after Judas's death/suicide.
