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To the Christians, this is why I don't fear hell.





Emineo
I for one am thankful that you care enough for us that you would accept criticism just because you fear for our souls, not many people are this caring. I do recognize the feelings you hold for people like me and you do not want anyone to experience eternal damnation.

I do not reject your beliefs or your documents because I wish to continue a "pagan" lifestyle. I reject them simply because your beliefs and your documents have not shown me any valid evidence to support them. According to the bible Jesus showed Thomas the holes in his hands and I would expect the same of a loving god to do so continously for those who are on the brink of eternal agony simply because they use logic and rationality.

You must know that being an atheist, at least from my point of view is that I don't believe in anything that has no reasonable evidence for its validity. I do not believe in magic, ghosts, voodoo, or anything of the sort. It is not that I choose to ignore your god alone I choose to let the evidence guide me to the truth. Would you do your finances on a program that is known to not be accurate all of the time? Or even some of the time? I see the bible much like a faulty program that gives out incorrect answers more often than not and I consider the way I live my life much more important than finances. Sure science has its flaws at times but it is not because of the scientific process but more because of the human being creating the process and executing it, based on faulty or unreasonable evidence.

If you believe that the bible is gods word and infallible the human factor would be no argument of defense simply because it is supposedly divinely inspired. A god that is infallible would make no mistakes in the text especially obvious ones. Therefore you must conclude it was a human element that created these contradictions. Because the bible has mistakes the definition of infallible would not reflect it. Which leaves much doubt for any rational person to believe in such a book.

To me following evidence is all that matters. We all follow evidence and sometimes we do it unknowingly. Would you jump out of an airplane without a parachute? Of course you wouldn't at least I would hope you wouldn't. The reason you would not is because you know what would most likely happen based on other people who have jumped from high heights and how their remains lay near or where they landed. A child can be told not to touch the flame on the stove many times and they can be scolded or spanked many times but they will never know why not to touch the flame on the stove until they are burned. Many if not all children are highly irrational, it is because they do not have the experience to know how to be rational. As most people get older they start realizing instead of having their hand burned on the stove they would much rather let someone else do it and learn from them. Sadly though, this is where the rationality of most people halts.

There are many people who would not take the risk of flying on an airplane and most of these people consider themselves rational human beings. They fear flying because they have seen the devastation an airplane crash can cause. Yet they let their own personal experience of driving a car guide their decision because they have done it so many times before. Anybody who has done any research knows that driving a car is much more dangerous than flying in an airplane. This is risk assessment which is determining if the risk is greater than the reward. People die of food poisoning everyday others die of terrorists bombing public places. Does this mean I will not eat or go outside? I see reasonable evidence to tell me that the risk is very real; however looking at the statistics I know my chances of experiencing these outcomes is very slim. Knowing how small my chances are of experiencing these horrible conclusions I would much rather enjoy the sunlight and eat food at family picnics.

Now this is where I bring the threat of hell into play. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to tell me the threat of hell is real. I have not seen any physical proof that there has been any human being who has stood at the pearly gates and was judged by a god. I have seen no evidence of a human body containing a soul. There is just no valid reason I should fear this, even though many people throughout the world fear this. The majority belief does not count as proof. Just take for example, not all that long ago in relative terms, the majority of people believed that the world was flat. They used their own experiences of walking along the ground and not noticing the very sleight curvature of the earth to lead to that belief. The threat of me disregarding my rational center is far greater than fearing eternal damnation. I know irrational people kill other people, I know irrational people throw away their belonging and leave their loved ones. I know irrational people try to take advantage of other irrational people. I know that irrational people will kill themselves. Losing my center of rationality is about the greatest risk I could take and it obviously doesn't out weigh any known reward.

So, if you want what is best for me or any of us you should promote rationality throughout the world. Not an evidenceless threat of an eternity of suffering. You ask us to look around at everything and believe it is not real or that it does not matter. I ask you Kathy to just look around at this existence and touch it, taste it, smell it, and embrace it enjoy every second of it because there is no evidence of an eternity. There is no evidence of another shot at giving all the love you can to the people around you instead of wasting it on an evidenceless being. Instead of looking up at the sky and praying that these people who are suffering will be helped, get up and do what you can physically. Instead of wasting your time studying a flawed book use your time to learn wha is real and then use what you've learned to teach others. It is this accepted irrationality in the world that allows living people to suffer more than they should. Stop trying to separate yourself and others from this place because this is all that is real.

I have to stop, my emotions are beginning to take hold. There are tears dripping down my cheek because I have seen in past experiences that many christians would already wish to be dead than enjoy the life you have. That you would rather plan on what you will be doing after you die instead of planning on what you will do to enjoy the time you have. On average we only have about 78 years to live if we are lucky and in that time if you keep waiting for something that there is no evidence of existance you will miss the happiness you could have felt and given to others.
a_dubDesign
Emineo wrote:

I have to stop, my emotions are beginning to take hold. There are tears dripping down my cheek because I have seen in past experiences that many christians would already wish to be dead than enjoy the life you have. That you would rather plan on what you will be doing after you die instead of planning on what you will do to enjoy the time you have. On average we only have about 78 years to live if we are lucky and in that time if you keep waiting for something that there is no evidence of existance you will miss the happiness you could have felt and given to others.

I love that your passionate, and still very respectful in your whole post. It is sad how much time us christians can spend obsessing about the afterlife, and totally miss the life God has for us in the here and now, where salvation is to be lived out.

And thank you for not being freaked out about going to hell. That wasn't Jesus's message, it was the Pharisees.
lib
That was an amazing post.
I hope you managed to get the point through to Kathy.

I applaud you for being able to passionately express yourself without inciting a flame war or being disrespectful to anyone.
swapnalokam
this was a wonerful post and you expressed yourself.. in a very nice manner... I agree with you about the thingss you said.. about the hell doesn't exists and about afterlife and things related to it..

But I would like to think that in this way.. or it is the way that we belive.. We belive that.. heaven and hell are on this earth... and we experince that in our this life time.. the golden time we have in our life time... with peace.. wealth.. and everything you need.. is what we consider.. as heaven.. and it is hell when you got nothing and you live in streets.... but.. there is one thing that you got to notice... that.. heaven and hell in this earth doesn't mostly depend on wealth in the form of money... but in the form of the peacefull mind you have... I know.. that many of you guys (christians) can't agree with our concept...


TRUTH ALWAYS FAILS BECAUSE, PEOPLE NEED PROOF, WHICH IS NOT AVAILABLE IN MATERIAL FORM, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF TRUTH
livilou
Emineo

That is one of the most well thought out post I've run across in a long time. It was wonderfully worded without being disrespectful in anyway. And I actually agree with some of your comments, but some I can't.

I am a Christian, but I don't worry about Heaven or Hell, right now. I know I'll die some day, it's not something I have any control over. That being the case, it's not something I worry about.

I have seen evidence that God is real, but I won't go into them. It is from my point of view that I use when I see these things, not something that I can put into words and sound convincing.

Yes, most Christians I hear about are all to worried about when Jesus is coming back, but since we're not supposed to know when that is, only that He is, why worry over it. He may not come in my lifetime. I have too much to enjoy here to worry about something I have no control over. I have two wonderful children that I want to raise to be happy adults and a great husband that I want to enjoy life with. I have too much here to enjoy, so it makes no sense to me to worry over something that will happen one day. For all I know, today may be the last time I have to share anything with my husband and children. Why not make the most of it?

At my church we're taught "Don't sweat the small stuff". I accept Jesus is coming back. I accept that only He knows when that will be. Why worry over it? Worrying over it, won't make it happen any quicker.

As I stated earlier, I am a Christian, I do believe Jesus is coming back, but I don't agree that I should "force" you to believe as I do. I've learned that each person has to make up their own mind. You will either believe or not believe based on your personal experiences. While I would like to sit down and have a face to face conversation with you about this, I realize this isn't possible for several reasons. I also realize that "Christians", as a whole, don't give the best example on who Jesus is and what he stands for. For that, I apologize.

Know that I will pray for you. I don't say that to sound corny or condesending. I say that out of love, and yes, even though I don't know you personally, I do love you.

I hope you have a great day.
Soulfire
Christians would rather be dead than live their life? Of course that can't be said about each and ever Christian, but of course we want to die in this world. And not even "want" to die, but "look forward" to it, because then we spend eternity in Heaven. No worries.

I, for one, know that I will die. It happens to everyone, but it's what happens after death. I choose not to fret about it, and try to live a good life here on earth, until the day comes that I do die. You know it does not end in a slow hearse ride, there IS something more.
Emineo
Well from my experience which I will admit doesn't encompass all christians that is what I have found to be the most accurate way to describe their outlook.

I didn't mean to sound disrepectful and I was once a very zealous christian and therefor I was describing my old life and outlook on things.

My friend kathy frequents these forums and she is doing some very disheartening things to her own family and to her husband because of her sect of christianity called Maranatha. I really care for her and she is like a sister to me so when I see her doing some very irrational things that hurt herself and her family I want to try to reach out to her in any way possible.
livilou
Emineo wrote:
Well from my experience which I will admit doesn't encompass all christians that is what I have found to be the most accurate way to describe their outlook.

I didn't mean to sound disrepectful and I was once a very zealous christian and therefor I was describing my old life and outlook on things.

My friend kathy frequents these forums and she is doing some very disheartening things to her own family and to her husband because of her sect of christianity called Maranatha. I really care for her and she is like a sister to me so when I see her doing some very irrational things that hurt herself and her family I want to try to reach out to her in any way possible.


I for one, never thought you were disrespectful. I hope you didn't get that from my post.

As far as Kathy goes, your feelings are correct. Everyone should want to help friends. I've never heard of Maranatha except as a group of singers, so I won't comment on that. I'll pray for your friend since that's all I can do on this end. Please keep us updated on how she's doing. If there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to pm me anytime.
dandan
I admire your courage and I, as a Christian, cannot enforce my beliefs to you since that is not how we preach the love of God to others. However, I really must point out what you said.
You have said that you cannot believe in a God or a Hell because your senses are unable to detect it. However, this thesis is very one-sided. One can say "I do not believe I have any internal organs" of course this is a very stupid comment to make atheist or not but can you see what I'm getting at? Just because you cannot see/hear/feel/smell/touch something does not mean you cross out its existence.
The existence of God can be seen all around us. Let's take the universe for example. Scientists have 'proved' that the universe we know today was created by a big bang. But the question which now has to be answered is, what cause the big bang? Was it a random explosion? How did something came to be from nothing? Same goes for everything we see today. When you say that there is no proof for the existence of God, you are being illogical because an atheist cannot know all things by which you could state that there is no proof.
a_dubDesign
swapnalokam wrote:

But I would like to think that in this way.. or it is the way that we belive.. We belive that.. heaven and hell are on this earth... and we experince that in our this life time.. the golden time we have in our life time... with peace.. wealth.. and everything you need.. is what we consider.. as heaven.. and it is hell when you got nothing and you live in streets.... but.. there is one thing that you got to notice... that.. heaven and hell in this earth doesn't mostly depend on wealth in the form of money... but in the form of the peacefull mind you have... I know.. that many of you guys (christians) can't agree with our concept...

What religion are you affliated with? I ask because thats a big chunk of the gospel message in christianity. Although most people apply it to life after death instead of this life.
Subsonic Sound
Quote:
One can say "I do not believe I have any internal organs" of course this is a very stupid comment to make atheist or not but can you see what I'm getting at?


No, actually, I can't.

I've seen internal organs. I've eaten them. I've dissected animals in science class. I've spoken to surgeons who see human organs all the time. I've had stomach ache, I can feel my pulse. I have a reasonable understanding of the mechanisms of the human body, and the roles each organ plays in keeping us alive, on the chemical level.

The existence of internal organs can't be disputed. There's proof in every living creature. They're physical, and essential to keeping us alive.

God, Heaven and such are intangible, invisible concepts. ENTIRELY different.
Soulfire
Subsonic Sound wrote:


No, actually, I can't.

I've seen internal organs. I've eaten them. I've dissected animals in science class. I've spoken to surgeons who see human organs all the time. I've had stomach ache, I can feel my pulse. I have a reasonable understanding of the mechanisms of the human body, and the roles each organ plays in keeping us alive, on the chemical level.

The existence of internal organs can't be disputed. There's proof in every living creature. They're physical, and essential to keeping us alive.

God, Heaven and such are intangible, invisible concepts. ENTIRELY different.

I agree with you in the fact that they are intangible, but there lies the true meaning of Christianity. Believing without (directly) seeing. In my opinion, and a general Christian opinion, is that God does not want to force you to believe in Him, because he gave you free will.

If you truly are a follower of God, you come on your own, and that's the logic behind it.

But the whole organ thing, I didn't see where they were getting at either.
Wynand
Emineo

I am a Christian and I agree with you that proof is the thing to go with.

I can argue with you about almost everything you said, but I am not going to, because I don’t have proof for you. What I have is proof for myself. See, Christianity is about proof for you.

So why don’t you do some scientific research on it yourself to get proof for yourself. I can guarantee you nothing, but try the following test method. You can try this for only one week or shorter if you like. If you do it for longer the results will be more accurately.

Do this. For one week: Believe with you whole self that there is someone that loves you so much that that person (or entity) will change everything in your environment, gives you everything and learn you lessons (Sometimes you will experience this in a bad way at the moment, but will later see that this was the best for you) that will be the best for you ever.

You do not have to read the bible, because the urge to read the bible for Christians come form God.

This is all; just believe, for one week. Then document what happens to you and how you felt.

Please reply if you are willing to do this.
Subsonic Sound
It's an interesting idea, but placebos don't work if you know you're taking them. You couldn't really believe it, not if you were just doing it to find out if it'd work.
Ghost Face
Emineo

Concerning proof:
"All I know is that I was blind, but now I see." - Bart Lewis
Emineo
dandan wrote:
I admire your courage and I, as a Christian, cannot enforce my beliefs to you since that is not how we preach the love of God to others. However, I really must point out what you said.
You have said that you cannot believe in a God or a Hell because your senses are unable to detect it. However, this thesis is very one-sided. One can say "I do not believe I have any internal organs" of course this is a very stupid comment to make atheist or not but can you see what I'm getting at? Just because you cannot see/hear/feel/smell/touch something does not mean you cross out its existence.
The existence of God can be seen all around us. Let's take the universe for example. Scientists have 'proved' that the universe we know today was created by a big bang. But the question which now has to be answered is, what cause the big bang? Was it a random explosion? How did something came to be from nothing? Same goes for everything we see today. When you say that there is no proof for the existence of God, you are being illogical because an atheist cannot know all things by which you could state that there is no proof.



I would like to respectfully debate your statement here, so here it goes....

I know I have organs, I have seen them in X-rays and I have seen others cut open on operating tables with their organs exposed. I know every living thing has some mechanism to keep them classified as a living thing whether they have organs on the inside or the outside or something different altogether. I can see how organs interact with my body. I can feel my heart beat rapidly when I run and I can feel pain when I scrape my elbow. I can see how air interacts with moisture to form clouds or interacts with the nerves on my face as it blows on it. I know nuetrinos exist because of how it causes heavy water to sparkle hundreds of feet below the ground within lead containers. I however do not see how god interacts with anything. I don't see anything at all breaking the laws of physics. I see nothing paranormal going on period.

If you argue that something had to start the universe being God then I must argue what created God? It is a circular arguement and scientists have not proved the big bang theory in any sense it is just the best theory we have at this time due to the data that has been collected. It has evidence to support it yes but there is also mathematical evidence to support the M theory. Either way you break it down though matter and energy in some form or another could have always existed. I could then turn around and argue what caused gods existance? was it a random existance? was there a greater god who created the god who is god today and then who created the greater god and so on.

I do not claim to know all things, I do however claim that I do not believe in things that seem to be illogical or irrational unless there is ample evidence to support that belief or claim for that matter.
Emineo
I was raised Christian and became atheist as I got older. Not because I was angry at a god or because I felt like I was being picked on by life. I became atheist completely on accident while I was thirsting for knowledge of the world around me. The bible never answered the important questions for me and the questions it did answer didn't make much sense from a logical point of view.

In a sense dandan we are both atheists but I just believe in one less god than you. You are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, Cthullu, Odin and Thor and if you agree that you don't believe in these gods please explain to me why it is that you don't believe in them and when you fully understand why you dismiss these gods as being real you can fully understand why I dismiss your god as being real. Why do you believe Satan exists and not Hades? Why do you believe Jesus existed and not Hercules. Why do you believe the Bible is the word of god and not the Koran?

It comes down to geographic location, knowledge, and preference to what religion if any you believe in but one thing remains universal, every baby born is born atheist until it learns otherwise. The Gods of the past and the current gods all have one thing in common they are an explanation to things we do not know yet thus becoming the Gods of the gaps in science. Zeus threw lightning bolts with his mighty arm in the past but not today since we know exactly how a thunderstorm produces lightning. Ra lit the earth and gave it heat but not now since we know the sun is what lights up the sky during the day. Hades domain and Hell were both underground beneath our feet but not now since we know of the earth’s core and have ample devices to research the earth below. Mt Olympus and heaven were a kingdom in the clouds but not now because we have aircraft pilots and astronauts who map and measure the sky and space.

But those previous places such as Hades domain and Mt. Olympus have been dismissed as myth and folklore but Heaven and Hell remain a fervent belief to many people. Heaven was in the sky as Mt. Olympus was and Hell is underground as Hades was at least until the collective knowledge of our species gathered that these two places could not be in a physical place but now “must” exist in an ethereal realm. The problem with this belief is that it was basically pulled out of a hat. Show me anything that exists in an ethereal realm or any existence of any ethereal realms. Which is more likely strictly from a logical point of view? At some point in time a human being was told by a booming voice from the heavens not of this world stating that this voice resides within an ethereal intangible realm or that at some point in time different religions had to alter their collective beliefs to coincide with common knowledge?

The biggest question I have to the people who believe in heaven and hell is why are these places filled with the most simplistic of human pleasures or the most gruesome of human fears if these places were not an idea of some person themselves. Does the kingdom of heaven grow more beautiful as more beauty is found as we progress? Does the devils domain grow more unpleasant as more painful avenues are found? If the day comes that humans are no longer simple biological organisms but become part machine that are totally immune to fire but are still frail against the cold will hell then consist of Ice?

All in all it seems more likely every religion out there seems made up to soothe human worry in some form or another. It is not that I despise the people who practice their religions or think of them less in any sense. It is just that I don't understand the logic behind their religion as many people look at me and don't understand the logic behind binary code.

Although if someone were to prove using double blind techniques in a controlled environment anything at all paranormal, whether it be telekinesis or some sort of psychic ability I would in an instant rethink my current stance on life itself.
totax
So Good To know that we are on Way to Heaven.....

Jesus has done a big change in my life:P


God bless!
Vrythramax
to all out there who say they need proof...I say only this...you will require no further proof if you simply have faith. You don't take a tour of the maintainance hanger at an airport and check the repair logs, check the torque specs on every bolt, make sure all systems are working on an airplane before getting onboard to fly to your vacation do you? It seems the need for "proof" is a way to explain to the world why you think the way you do. The proof is out there...if you want to see it.
lib
Vrythramax wrote:
to all out there who say they need proof...I say only this...you will require no further proof if you simply have faith. You don't take a tour of the maintainance hanger at an airport and check the repair logs, check the torque specs on every bolt, make sure all systems are working on an airplane before getting onboard to fly to your vacation do you? It seems the need for "proof" is a way to explain to the world why you think the way you do. The proof is out there...if you want to see it.

However, statistics and experience clearly tell us that most aeroplanes have undergone those kinda checks and are passed to be fit to fly. I've flown in planes a few times myself, and I trust the airport authorities wuite enough. The proof need not necessarily be out there. Your perspective and your faith and your ideology will give you the proof (or lack thereof) in your mind.
Vrythramax
Faith itself seems to be a very elusive thing in this day and age. Very rarely has it been my privlege to meet someone who hasn't found God through adversity, but instead feels they way they do because (they feel) it's just right.
philipbool
I grew up as a Roman Catholic Christian. I found church an empty, pompous experience much of the time, and whilst it claimed that belief was self-evidential from a philosophical basis I couldn't see it. I found that I, like millions of others, couldn't find a place to belong in Christianity as I had experienced it, and I didn't meet the Christ that I would have liked to have believed in then. To be at that point on that journey was a very painful thing. I was surrounded by passionate believers who desperately wanted for me to delight in a faith that shaped their lives and guided every decision - that for them was a personal relationship, not just a physical practice or intellectual enlightenment.

It took me a very long time to have the guts to say I couldn't believe unless I experienced God, when everyone around me seemed prepared to accept the testimonies of the community.

It was a turning point for me, as from that liberated basis, I was free to experience God for myself.
a_dubDesign
philipbol, thats awesome. I would love to hear what that freedom looked like in your story and how you have experienced God since. I don't know if everyone else is up to listening, but if your up to telling you can message me.

I think part of the problem with the church right now has been expecting people to automatically believe in God without experiencing him. We don't give enough chances for people to get those personal experiences because we tend to be just telling them to believe no matter what without questioning. Then we, being one of the conduits which god is suppose to be experienced through, have a tendancy to turn on people "in the name of God". Its sad realy.

God bless bro
Vrythramax
count me in as well...I am up for it.
livilou
I would also love to hear about that. It sounds very interesting.
lib
Definitely do count me in as well.

@Vrythramax, I believe in God purely because I feel it is right to. I have a different view of life and the afterlife based on karma, nirvana and the concept of heaven as well, and it's not very different from most conventional religions these days, but it cuts out the reason to spread my religion or my philosophy and gives me freedom to experience God in my own way. It gives me a reason to be good and just and right and blah blah... I'd explain but it's pretty much like all other religions... only, I believe in a different kind of Hell, and I don't believe in eternal damnation or eternal heaven.

I remember this one time I was chatting with my friend (strict atheist) about why I believe in God, and the afterlife, etc... and of course, I couldn't (and didn't want to) convert him to believe in God, but he did end up saying "damn" because he couldn't find a flaw with my logic as yet. I enjoyed that conversation, though, because it raised fresh questions in my mind, some of which I am struggling to answer today as well.
Vrythramax
@lib

If you have read any of my previous posts in this particular forum you will know that I will never cast dispersions on anyone's beliefs. Each person is entitled to experience God in thier own fashion, pray the way they wish, when they want, where they want...as long as it doesn't hurt others. Even then I am hesitant to say anything about it simply because I myself do not know if my beliefs are right or wrong, they feel right to me and work for me, just as your beliefs work for you. We do not have to agree with each other's belief structure, or in the way we chose to worship, or not to believe or worship. We are all humans, and in the end run, individules. That's what makes this all so great...diversity. What a concept huh? Smile

Peace.
ebkari
i don't fear hell because it's nonexistant. but for those who believe in it, you shouldn't fear it in the first place because if you care at all, you're a good person and you won't go there..
maths
poor chap, I will pray for u dun cry

Emineo wrote:
I for one am thankful that you care enough for us that you would accept criticism just because you fear for our souls, not many people are this caring. I do recognize the feelings you hold for people like me and you do not want anyone to experience eternal damnation.

I do not reject your beliefs or your documents because I wish to continue a "pagan" lifestyle. I reject them simply because your beliefs and your documents have not shown me any valid evidence to support them. According to the bible Jesus showed Thomas the holes in his hands and I would expect the same of a loving god to do so continously for those who are on the brink of eternal agony simply because they use logic and rationality.

You must know that being an atheist, at least from my point of view is that I don't believe in anything that has no reasonable evidence for its validity. I do not believe in magic, ghosts, voodoo, or anything of the sort. It is not that I choose to ignore your god alone I choose to let the evidence guide me to the truth. Would you do your finances on a program that is known to not be accurate all of the time? Or even some of the time? I see the bible much like a faulty program that gives out incorrect answers more often than not and I consider the way I live my life much more important than finances. Sure science has its flaws at times but it is not because of the scientific process but more because of the human being creating the process and executing it, based on faulty or unreasonable evidence.

If you believe that the bible is gods word and infallible the human factor would be no argument of defense simply because it is supposedly divinely inspired. A god that is infallible would make no mistakes in the text especially obvious ones. Therefore you must conclude it was a human element that created these contradictions. Because the bible has mistakes the definition of infallible would not reflect it. Which leaves much doubt for any rational person to believe in such a book.

To me following evidence is all that matters. We all follow evidence and sometimes we do it unknowingly. Would you jump out of an airplane without a parachute? Of course you wouldn't at least I would hope you wouldn't. The reason you would not is because you know what would most likely happen based on other people who have jumped from high heights and how their remains lay near or where they landed. A child can be told not to touch the flame on the stove many times and they can be scolded or spanked many times but they will never know why not to touch the flame on the stove until they are burned. Many if not all children are highly irrational, it is because they do not have the experience to know how to be rational. As most people get older they start realizing instead of having their hand burned on the stove they would much rather let someone else do it and learn from them. Sadly though, this is where the rationality of most people halts.

There are many people who would not take the risk of flying on an airplane and most of these people consider themselves rational human beings. They fear flying because they have seen the devastation an airplane crash can cause. Yet they let their own personal experience of driving a car guide their decision because they have done it so many times before. Anybody who has done any research knows that driving a car is much more dangerous than flying in an airplane. This is risk assessment which is determining if the risk is greater than the reward. People die of food poisoning everyday others die of terrorists bombing public places. Does this mean I will not eat or go outside? I see reasonable evidence to tell me that the risk is very real; however looking at the statistics I know my chances of experiencing these outcomes is very slim. Knowing how small my chances are of experiencing these horrible conclusions I would much rather enjoy the sunlight and eat food at family picnics.

Now this is where I bring the threat of hell into play. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to tell me the threat of hell is real. I have not seen any physical proof that there has been any human being who has stood at the pearly gates and was judged by a god. I have seen no evidence of a human body containing a soul. There is just no valid reason I should fear this, even though many people throughout the world fear this. The majority belief does not count as proof. Just take for example, not all that long ago in relative terms, the majority of people believed that the world was flat. They used their own experiences of walking along the ground and not noticing the very sleight curvature of the earth to lead to that belief. The threat of me disregarding my rational center is far greater than fearing eternal damnation. I know irrational people kill other people, I know irrational people throw away their belonging and leave their loved ones. I know irrational people try to take advantage of other irrational people. I know that irrational people will kill themselves. Losing my center of rationality is about the greatest risk I could take and it obviously doesn't out weigh any known reward.

So, if you want what is best for me or any of us you should promote rationality throughout the world. Not an evidenceless threat of an eternity of suffering. You ask us to look around at everything and believe it is not real or that it does not matter. I ask you Kathy to just look around at this existence and touch it, taste it, smell it, and embrace it enjoy every second of it because there is no evidence of an eternity. There is no evidence of another shot at giving all the love you can to the people around you instead of wasting it on an evidenceless being. Instead of looking up at the sky and praying that these people who are suffering will be helped, get up and do what you can physically. Instead of wasting your time studying a flawed book use your time to learn wha is real and then use what you've learned to teach others. It is this accepted irrationality in the world that allows living people to suffer more than they should. Stop trying to separate yourself and others from this place because this is all that is real.

I have to stop, my emotions are beginning to take hold. There are tears dripping down my cheek because I have seen in past experiences that many christians would already wish to be dead than enjoy the life you have. That you would rather plan on what you will be doing after you die instead of planning on what you will do to enjoy the time you have. On average we only have about 78 years to live if we are lucky and in that time if you keep waiting for something that there is no evidence of existance you will miss the happiness you could have felt and given to others.
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