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If I were to build a computer...






Are these good parts?
Yes
45%
 45%  [ 10 ]
No
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
They're OK.
50%
 50%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 22

william
If I were to build a computer, what parts should I use? (Price should be no higher than $5000.) I want an ultimate gaming computer with cutting edge technology. Also, I want a lot of multimedia functions.

Here are the parts I thought about:
Case: Sunbeam Transformer Case Black ATX Mid Tower Case
Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
Power Supply: Antec NeoHE 550
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 FX 60
RAM: Crucial CT2KIT12872Y40B (2x 1 GB Module)
Hard Drives: Maxtor L01F500 Ultra16 500GB Hard Drive (2 Drives in RAID 0+1) and Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 SATA NCQ 3Gb/s ST3500641AS.
Graphics Card: Thinking about it.
Sound Card: Thinking about it.
All other parts: Thinking about it.

Updated Parts:
Case: Sunbeam Transformer Case Black ATX Mid Tower Case
Motherboard: Asus A8N-32SLI Deluxe
Power Supply: No idea. Confused
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 FX 60
RAM: Crucial CT25672Y335 (2 x 2 GB Module)
Hard Drives: Maxtor L01F500 Ultra16 500GB Hard Drive (2 Drives in RAID 0+1) and Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 SATA NCQ 3Gb/s ST3500641AS. (98% chance of changing. I'm having a hard time finding a 10000 RPM drive.)
Graphics Card: Help Confused
Sound Card: Thinking
Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-inch Wide Aspect Flat Panel LCD
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 3000 Laser
All other parts: Thinking about it.

Updated Parts 2:
Case: Sunbeam Transformer Case Black ATX Mid Tower Case
Motherboard: M2N32-SLI Deluxe
Power Supply: No idea.
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 FX 62
RAM: Crucial CT25672Y335 (2 x 2 GB Module)
Hard Drives: Seagate Barracuda 500 GB (2 Drives in RAID 0+1) and a 750 GB Seagate Barracuda.
Graphics Card: 1 or 2 nVidia 7900 GTX
Sound Card: SoundBlaster X-fi Elite Pro.
Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP 24" Widescreen Flat Panel w/ a 6 ms response time.
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 3000 Laser
All other parts: Thinking about it.


So, are these good parts? Any suggestions?
psycosquirrel
Looks okay, but here are some suggestions:

Get the Asus A8N-32SLI. Both slots run in 16x in SLI, instead of 8. In some cases, this means almost 2 times the performance when the bus speed is the limiting factor.

If you plan on a high-end SLI system, you will need more than just a 550w power supply. Get at least 650.

Also, go for 7800GTs in SLI or 7900GTs in SLI. Do not get the GTX; the performance difference is not worth the large price gap, especially when you can o/c the cards easily.

Get 4Gb of RAM, especially if you are getting the vid cards I said. Your CPU will easily be able to handle it. As for the brand, get OCZ Platinum series. It is very sexy, in terms of performance.

For the hard drives, get 10000RPM Raptors (at least for the primary master). No use waiting on load times in a system at this price...

Get a Creative Audigy2 Pro for the sound card. NOTHING can come near touching it in quality. As for speakers, get the highest-priced Logitech speakers you can find. All their speakers are outstanding, and the most expensive (Z-5500 I think) are beyond top of the line.

For a case, you definently need something worthy of all these parts. Get a Coolermaster Stacker. It will have TONS of room for anything you could ever need to put in it, and plenty of space to circulate air and protect your valuable components from damage.


Any way you go though, it sounds like you are building a HIGH-HIGH end system. You can't really go wrong with any of these parts, but be sure that you get the board I suggested, or your graphics cards will have a bottleneck at the PCI-E bus. Watch the wattage too... You will need more than 550...
Sebaci
psycosquirrel wrote:
Get a Creative Audigy2 Pro for the sound card. NOTHING can come near touching it in quality. As for speakers, get the highest-priced Logitech speakers you can find. All their speakers are outstanding, and the most expensive (Z-5500 I think) are beyond top of the line.

lol, have you ever heard about Creative X-fi Question
william
That sounds great. I was actually thinking of 4 GB of RAM. The thing is that I won't be building this computer for another year. I'm just planning it out now. $5000 is A LOT and it'll take time to get that money. I like most of your suggestions, other than the case. The case I'm talking about looks really cool and it's HUGE. 4 hard drive bays, Two 3.5" external bays, and 4 external 5.25" bays. The only think I don't like is no IEEE 1394 port. And, I think you are right about a higher power supply. What do you recommend?
psycosquirrel
RE to Sebaci: Yes, I have. It is a great card, but the Audigy2 is better (and not gold Laughing )

RE to william: I would go with a SeaSonic. They are really quiet and most of the high-end ones look really cool. I think their highest is around 650, you will have to google it though. As for the case, I have never heard of it, so it would be cool if you could link me up. By the way, almost all standard ATX cases have the bays you said Laughing
Sebaci
psycosquirrel wrote:
RE to Sebaci: Yes, I have. It is a great card, but the Audigy2 is better (and not gold Laughing )


Why do you think Audigy 2 is better? It's older than X-fi. And x-fi is of course better and more expensive. Probably the best sound card is X-fi Fatality
william
psycosquirrel wrote:
RE to Sebaci: Yes, I have. It is a great card, but the Audigy2 is better (and not gold Laughing )

RE to william: I would go with a SeaSonic. They are really quiet and most of the high-end ones look really cool. I think their highest is around 650, you will have to google it though. As for the case, I have never heard of it, so it would be cool if you could link me up. By the way, almost all standard ATX cases have the bays you said Laughing


Yeah, I had a typo. I meant 5 external 5.25" bays. SeaSonic is a good compay. Also, here's a link to the case's page: http://www.circotech.com/sunbeam-transformer-black-atx-mid-tower-case-with-ccfl-light-window.html

EDIT: Also, it's six 3.25" internal bays for hard drives.
charredii
Soundcards are really not that crucial, as long you get something decent. IF your some audiophile and really really need the 'quality' you can drop some dough on it

I have an Audigy 2 ZS, have a few driver update probs, but it's okay.
william
Well, a high end PC needs a nice sound card. For this computer, I'd like at least a 7.1 channel card. I have integrated sound on the computer I'm using right now. It's TERRIBLE. And speakers, I;m probably going with Logitech at 5.1 channel and maybe 300 W.
psycosquirrel
Sebaci wrote:
psycosquirrel wrote:
RE to Sebaci: Yes, I have. It is a great card, but the Audigy2 is better (and not gold Laughing )


Why do you think Audigy 2 is better? It's older than X-fi. And x-fi is of course better and more expensive. Probably the best sound card is X-fi Fatality


Actually, Fatal1ty-named anything is generally overpriced. The X-fi Fatal1ty is simply the X-fi with a fancy front plug plate, for 2-3x more.

Audigy2 is better all around than the X-fi, even though both are absolutely amazing. In terms of gaming though, the X-fi is better because it can play more sounds at once than the Audigy. This will probably not make you hear much of a difference, but it can if you are in an excessively complicated game. Either card is more than you will ever need in sound. They are both beyond amazing in terms of quality. But please, don't waste your money on the Fatal1ty crap Rolling Eyes

As for the case... WOW. It is amazing. A bit too fancy for my tastes, but nonetheless, I like it just as much as the Stacker. Almost any modern sound card will have 7.1 channel support, especially with your budget. Go for 7.1 sound too. With the money you have, you might as well.

Another tip for your system, William: Buy a NICE CRT monitor. You don't want to be playing games with amazing fps and graphics and sound on some crappy 15" CRT from a thrift store. Get a good, high-quality gaming CRT from Viewsonic. Why not LCD you ask? Well, LCDs, while much better than CRTs in terms of most aspects, cannot display as many colors with as much vibrance as a CRT. Also, CRTs will be less money for more monitor, and you will not see gridlines. Here is a really good CRT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824002248 Of course there are better, but for an outstanding CRT, you can spend upwards of $400. I reccommend buying a CRT locally also, don't deal with having your baby shipped to you.
sunjay
for the graphics card why not get a ATI FireGL 7300!
tomahawk19
william wrote:

Yeah, I had a typo. I meant 5 external 5.25" bays. SeaSonic is a good compay. Also, here's a link to the case's page: http://www.circotech.com/sunbeam-transformer-black-atx-mid-tower-case-with-ccfl-light-window.html

EDIT: Also, it's six 3.25" internal bays for hard drives.


Be cautious about anything that has a front opening door unless it's made of steel, and that appears to be plastic. The plastic front doors tend to break at the hinge. One case to look at is on my current website. It's the Antec Performance One (The middle one, the only reason I say it's on my current website is because I didn't feel like going and finding a picture elsewhere, you can buy it online by doing just your basic google search.).

This case has plenty of room, but you are probably looking for a case with a window, which in that case I would look more towards the Thermaltake Tsunami (I'm not sure what the door is made of, but I do know that Thermaltake is one of the better case builders out there.) Now if you really want to get fancy, go with the Lian Li anniversary case, it looks like a conch shell, but will run you around 380.

I agree that you should run at least 2 GB of RAM, however if someone could explain to me what GAMES there are out there that will utilize 4 GB of RAM, then please share, so far I've found it useless to go past 2 GBs. Antec is a great company for PSU, as are Enermax PSUs
william
psycosquirrel wrote:
Sebaci wrote:
psycosquirrel wrote:
RE to Sebaci: Yes, I have. It is a great card, but the Audigy2 is better (and not gold Laughing )


Why do you think Audigy 2 is better? It's older than X-fi. And x-fi is of course better and more expensive. Probably the best sound card is X-fi Fatality


Actually, Fatal1ty-named anything is generally overpriced. The X-fi Fatal1ty is simply the X-fi with a fancy front plug plate, for 2-3x more.

Audigy2 is better all around than the X-fi, even though both are absolutely amazing. In terms of gaming though, the X-fi is better because it can play more sounds at once than the Audigy. This will probably not make you hear much of a difference, but it can if you are in an excessively complicated game. Either card is more than you will ever need in sound. They are both beyond amazing in terms of quality. But please, don't waste your money on the Fatal1ty crap Rolling Eyes

As for the case... WOW. It is amazing. A bit too fancy for my tastes, but nonetheless, I like it just as much as the Stacker. Almost any modern sound card will have 7.1 channel support, especially with your budget. Go for 7.1 sound too. With the money you have, you might as well.

Another tip for your system, William: Buy a NICE CRT monitor. You don't want to be playing games with amazing fps and graphics and sound on some crappy 15" CRT from a thrift store. Get a good, high-quality gaming CRT from Viewsonic. Why not LCD you ask? Well, LCDs, while much better than CRTs in terms of most aspects, cannot display as many colors with as much vibrance as a CRT. Also, CRTs will be less money for more monitor, and you will not see gridlines. Here is a really good CRT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824002248 Of course there are better, but for an outstanding CRT, you can spend upwards of $400. I reccommend buying a CRT locally also, don't deal with having your baby shipped to you.


Well, I personally don't like CRTs. I prefer LCDs because some new ones can display more colors. I plan on a 20-24" Widescreen LCD.
psycosquirrel
I don't blame you, CRTs are very bulky Laughing The color statement is false though, unless you are talking about Plasma screens.

As for the LCD, make sure you get one with a VERY LOW delay (5 or less ms), otherwise your gaming will be affected.
william
psycosquirrel wrote:
I don't blame you, CRTs are very bulky Laughing The color statement is false though, unless you are talking about Plasma screens.

As for the LCD, make sure you get one with a VERY LOW delay (5 or less ms), otherwise your gaming will be affected.


Yeah, I know. That's a problem with my LCD. It's delay is around 10 ms.
elekis
5000 $??? with that you can re-build the world.

I thing that's better to spend 1000$ (and even more) to a average pc , and every yera spend 500$ to nupgrade
william
Actually, I can drop $2000. Most of the money is going into the monitor (about $800) and the CPU ($1031).
Wd64
Sound card? Look no further than Audigy ZS Platinum it is rather good and on the cheap side.

For a graphics card you should be considering 512MB radeon.
william
Actually, since I'm not building this now, I'm actually waiting for that new 1 GB graphics card.



tomahawk19 wrote:
william wrote:

Yeah, I had a typo. I meant 5 external 5.25" bays. SeaSonic is a good compay. Also, here's a link to the case's page: http://www.circotech.com/sunbeam-transformer-black-atx-mid-tower-case-with-ccfl-light-window.html

EDIT: Also, it's six 3.25" internal bays for hard drives.


Be cautious about anything that has a front opening door unless it's made of steel, and that appears to be plastic. The plastic front doors tend to break at the hinge. One case to look at is on my current website. It's the Antec Performance One (The middle one, the only reason I say it's on my current website is because I didn't feel like going and finding a picture elsewhere, you can buy it online by doing just your basic google search.).

This case has plenty of room, but you are probably looking for a case with a window, which in that case I would look more towards the Thermaltake Tsunami (I'm not sure what the door is made of, but I do know that Thermaltake is one of the better case builders out there.) Now if you really want to get fancy, go with the Lian Li anniversary case, it looks like a conch shell, but will run you around 380.

I agree that you should run at least 2 GB of RAM, however if someone could explain to me what GAMES there are out there that will utilize 4 GB of RAM, then please share, so far I've found it useless to go past 2 GBs. Antec is a great company for PSU, as are Enermax PSUs


That first case you told me about is actually the first one I looked at. Smile But, I changed my mind when I found the Sunbeam. And I thought the door was made of steel. I'm going to try to find out whether it is made of steel or plastic.
ocalhoun
william wrote:

(Price should be no higher than $5000.)
I want an ultimate gaming computer


You might end up with one that will serve your needs just fine, but you won't have the ultimate machine...
william
Of course not. I'd need to spend a LOT more for an ultimate PC. Still, $5000 can get you one of the best PCs around.
Deji
william wrote:
Of course not. I'd need to spend a LOT more for an ultimate PC. Still, $5000 can get you one of the best PCs around.


that will be out of date in less than a year

best to stick to mid-high range.. say 1000-2000 then you can afford to upgrade as you go along..

rather than spending 5000 on something thats the best ever.. till the next card comes out..

no point in spending that much all at one then realising in 2 years that you wanna spend it all again.

>> [/IMO]
william
That's true. That's also why this PC sould be as expandable as possible.
izcool
For $5,000, you can get a really nice computer. Your specs are OK, but I would consider getting different parts if I were you. I would go with Intel instead of AMD (I'm an Intel fan, but let's not go into an argument here on which is the better chip), but AMD's are cheaper yet Intels are much more expensive. Get the higher priced chip and you'll be happier.

If you stick to the cheap (like AMD), then the outcome is that you're getting a cheap computer, and a cheap computer it will always be. Cheap isn't always best, put some cushion in there and get a better CPU.

- Mike.
william
It's hard to not get into an argument. Very Happy

Though, the AMD Athlon 64 FX 60 is the FASTEST processor on the market. It's priced at $1031.
izcool
william wrote:
It's hard to not get into an argument. Very Happy

Though, the AMD Athlon 64 FX 60 is the FASTEST processor on the market. It's priced at $1031.


How long ago did it come out ? As technology moves so fast, in a couple of months it'll be one of the slowest processors on the market I would guess lol. Laughing Yeah, I'm not going to argue, but that's my opinion.

- Mike.
psycosquirrel
AMD is clearly ahead right now in bang for your buck for processing. While AMD was known as a "cheap" brand of processor, they now are very reputable and as high-quality as Pentiums. Both processors specialize in completely different areas though, so there should be absolutely no argument over superiority among knowledgable users. Pentiums are significantly better for general processsing, coding, and compiling use because of their low FSB and high multiplier. On the other hand, AMD's extremely high FSB and low multiplier (with the enormous memory bandwidth too), AMDs completely blow Pentiums out of the water for gaming.

Either way though, if you are planning on spending more than $300 on a processor, you CANNOT be disappointed by the performance of either brand. Both companies make excellent products and will continue to do so into the future, probably becoming much more specialized as Pentium continues to target business while AMD goes for gamers. Eventually, they will become so evolved apart that they become radically differently designed. They will be more specialized than they even are now, and eventually may even run different OSes. But keep in mind this is in the long future.

Let's not argue over Pentium over AMD; fanboys will go crazy over their side and flame the others Rolling Eyes
william
psycosquirrel wrote:
AMD is clearly ahead right now in bang for your buck for processing. While AMD was known as a "cheap" brand of processor, they now are very reputable and as high-quality as Pentiums. Both processors specialize in completely different areas though, so there should be absolutely no argument over superiority among knowledgable users. Pentiums are significantly better for general processsing, coding, and compiling use because of their low FSB and high multiplier. On the other hand, AMD's extremely high FSB and low multiplier (with the enormous memory bandwidth too), AMDs completely blow Pentiums out of the water for gaming.

Either way though, if you are planning on spending more than $300 on a processor, you CANNOT be disappointed by the performance of either brand. Both companies make excellent products and will continue to do so into the future, probably becoming much more specialized as Pentium continues to target business while AMD goes for gamers. Eventually, they will become so evolved apart that they become radically differently designed. They will be more specialized than they even are now, and eventually may even run different OSes. But keep in mind this is in the long future.

Let's not argue over Pentium over AMD; fanboys will go crazy over their side and flame the others Rolling Eyes


True. Very Happy Most likely I'll change my mind about the CPU. AMD is planning on replacing the FX 57 with a new dual core with the same clock speed. I'd wait until that one comes out. I am an AMD fan, but I admit that I was once an Intel fan. That all changed after I got a Pentium IV with HT Technology. Anyway, I plan on updating the parts.
Frozen Balrog
I love my system and all, but every time i think about it i say to myself, Man you should have gone withe the 10,000 RPM hard drive. So my advice for computer system thats top noch is definatly 10k rpm.
My personal system advice:
1) The Hard drive mentioned above with SATA (even though the drivers are a pain to get on before the Windows OS)
2) AMD dual core 2.4Ghz or above
3) 2Gigs of RAM (theres no other way with gaming, especially if your gonna be using talking software as well such as teamspeak or other coice software)
4) CRT monitor; LCD technology still doesn't beat the refresh rate and quality of a CRT.
5) 500wat PS
6) Good cooling and filters at air intakes so dust doesn't clog ur system up.

Oh and don't forget: Windows XP Pro!!! (you can buy cheap and legal off ebay)
william
XP Pro is not so good. I may go with Vista but I'm really anti-windows. Though, I may be forced to get Windows. And I agree, I need at least 10000 rpm for the primary drive. Maybe even 15000 rpm.
psycosquirrel
15000 RPM is only SCSI at this point Rolling Eyes

XP sucks, bottom line. 2000 is MUCH better, but niether are really that great. Since there are no alternatives, I always go with Windows2000. As for Vista, its demands for operation are so rediculous that it would be stupid to create a gaming machine running it...
william
psycosquirrel wrote:
15000 RPM is only SCSI at this point Rolling Eyes

XP sucks, bottom line. 2000 is MUCH better, but niether are really that great. Since there are no alternatives, I always go with Windows2000. As for Vista, its demands for operation are so rediculous that it would be stupid to create a gaming machine running it...


I know that 15000 is SCSI now, but it may come.

I really am not sure what OS I'll use. I hate XP and Vista doesn't seem so great. I wish there was a way to have multiple OS's on one computer.
Omega_Squid
have fun paying for all of that, lol! Very Happy

you can have multiple OS's by loading them on different partitions on your HD
william
Yeah, but will it work properly? (With multiple OS's)
VX.Agent
If you're going to spend so much money on a computer, at least, wait for the new DX10 graphic cards, new MoBo and CPU or your computer will only be average in a year.
psycosquirrel
DX10 and Conroe won't be that revolutionary Rolling Eyes

They will suck for at least the first year, then prices will go down as better drivers and complete fixes come out.

Just a question, william -- Have you ever seen/felt/heard a 10000RPM drive? If you have, you will know why 15000RPM will probably never go off scsi.

Multiple OS's work great, just partition space on the main drive for each OS. You really don't need anything more than a tuned and lean version of Windows 2000 though. IMO, Windows 2000 is by far the best gaming OS out there (combines flexibility of Winblows XP with Linux's low usage, creating a sort of compromise...). Vista will be much too demanding for a decent gaming rig, unless you are willing to sacrifice at least 10-30 fps for winblows to run...
TheGeek
Personally, i say, dont go with ATI. I hate them and even though their benchmarks are far superrior to any Nvidia mark, you still cant get the same performance in game with an ATI card as you can with an Nvidia one. Secondly, Intel is not better than AMD just yet, Conro may change all of this, but we have yet to see proof. Plus AMD2 is just around the corner as well, so AMD may just stay on top thanks to that. also the FX-60 is NOT the fastest chip around. Stock and out of the box, yes, but once overclocked, an Operteron core can outperform a stock FX-60 and it only costs about 1/10th the price of the FX-60. (Im not saying that an OCed FX-60 isnt better, it probably is, but thats not what i was saying).

As for your Operating system, you will probably be happier with a windows machine as sad as it sounds. Usually, i dont recommend this if i can help it, however, since you ARE making a gaming computer and most games work best in windows, use windows. Also, dont go with vista, not yet, when it first comes out it will get rittled with viruses and spyware worse than a B-52 flying over a line of flack guns in WWII, its gunna be ugly, every MS OS is right out of the factory. Wait a while for the bugs to work out and for the price of system memory to drop so you can afford to be well over the amount that Vista gobbles up so your games wont hurt so bad.

Other than that, i say you have a great machine, nice choices, and i agree with you on the LCD choice. Though really CRT's are better, theyre bulky, hard to carry around to LAN's and the new ones IMO look more vibrant and are sleeker than any CRT i have ever seen or owned.
TheGeek
psycosquirrel wrote:

Just a question, william -- Have you ever seen/felt/heard a 10000RPM drive? If you have, you will know why 15000RPM will probably never go off scsi.


actually, they already make 15000RPM SATA drives....
william
TheGeek wrote:
Personally, i say, dont go with ATI. I hate them and even though their benchmarks are far superrior to any Nvidia mark, you still cant get the same performance in game with an ATI card as you can with an Nvidia one. Secondly, Intel is not better than AMD just yet, Conro may change all of this, but we have yet to see proof. Plus AMD2 is just around the corner as well, so AMD may just stay on top thanks to that. also the FX-60 is NOT the fastest chip around. Stock and out of the box, yes, but once overclocked, an Operteron core can outperform a stock FX-60 and it only costs about 1/10th the price of the FX-60. (Im not saying that an OCed FX-60 isnt better, it probably is, but thats not what i was saying).

As for your Operating system, you will probably be happier with a windows machine as sad as it sounds. Usually, i dont recommend this if i can help it, however, since you ARE making a gaming computer and most games work best in windows, use windows. Also, dont go with vista, not yet, when it first comes out it will get rittled with viruses and spyware worse than a B-52 flying over a line of flack guns in WWII, its gunna be ugly, every MS OS is right out of the factory. Wait a while for the bugs to work out and for the price of system memory to drop so you can afford to be well over the amount that Vista gobbles up so your games wont hurt so bad.

Other than that, i say you have a great machine, nice choices, and i agree with you on the LCD choice. Though really CRT's are better, theyre bulky, hard to carry around to LAN's and the new ones IMO look more vibrant and are sleeker than any CRT i have ever seen or owned.



Well, about the operating system. I understand that Windows is the best when it comes to gaming, but gaming isn't the only thing I want to do. So, that's why I want multiple OS's. And the graphics card. One reason I plan on going with ATI is because of the horrible experience I had with my 128 MB nVidia. And I'm also thinking of getting two monitors, one gaming CRT and a large widescreen LCD. By the way, do you know of any nice power supply?
william
I was thinking of adding a Blu-ray burner to this computer. Is it worth it, or should I wait for a price decline?
DeadMen
hmm............

i think a very strong computer is a waste of money. just like Alienware brand. d it foolish to buy an alienware which cost at least $1000 or more.

the highest i would go is an anthlon X2 3800 + P150 Antec (super quiet) case + 2GB RAM +250GB Hardrive + 7600GT + Any slide motherboard with 4 up to 4GB ram and 3 PCI and 4 USB back 2 front + some minor stuffs like mouse. i think this build cost less than $1000
psycosquirrel
Windows is not the "best" for gaming, it is the only. No other OS has games mainstream on it like Windows...

Horrible experience with NVIDIA? I have never heard of that before, but have fun with a hotter and more expensive card with less performance Rolling Eyes

Also, do not get a CRT and LCD, get both of one type and with the LCD be sure to get a 6ms or lower delay screen to avoid "ghosting."

Finally, Blu-Ray will either go mainstream or flop. Therefore, it is by no means worth it to drop almost $1000 on something that may end up worthless. In my opinion, Blu-Ray is like the PPU. It is either going to be forced mainstream and will end up like sound cards (any old drive/card will work, it just depends on how nice you want it to work). I would just go without it for now.
william
Well, my experience with nVidia wasn't "horrible." It didn't perform as well as another 128 MB ATI, but I know high end nVidias are awesome. So, I'm thinking about the 7900 GTX.

Also, about the monitors. I'm still not sure on what monitor to get. I want a large widescreen LCD with a good response time.

And it's true about Windows being the only option for gaming. But, I'm still getting multiple OS's.
henrygl
One thing your pc definetely lacks is a tv tuner. I currently own a custom PC and could not live without my tv tuner. It allows me to watch and record TV. If you have enough money to build that PC, then you should seriously consider getting hmm....2 Happauge PVR 500 w/ dual tuner. That's four tuners for you, which means you can record 4 shows at a time, or watch one and record 3. I would pair that up with a pretty sleek PVR software called GBPVR. I used XP MCE in the past; it's amazing for everything but TV, which I find the TV UI is not good at all. I also use the Snapstream RF Remote, which does a terrific job. Well here that's it sooo have fun!

-henry
william
Actually, I plan on getting one. I'm just not focusing on that, yet. I'm not really gonna waste slots for two duals. (Unless it's external.) I just need one dual. Any other models you recommend?
william
OK, after some more research, I found out that the response time for the monitor is 12 ms. That's terrible. So, I've decided to get the newer version which has a 6 ms response time. Not the best, but still twice as fast. It's a Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP. I'm not really fond of any Dell products, except for this monitor. Also, I'm thinking about liquid cooling this computer. I hate noise from fans and these parts will be running really hot. Therefore, water cooling is the way to go. What do you think of these two updates?
psycosquirrel
DO NOT get watercooling. You are by no means an expert, and I usually would not even reccommend watercooling unless the user is an experienced overclocker and knows all about the risks. Watercooling kits are usually worse than good aircooling anyways, and watercooling is always more expensive. Often, the pumps are rated over 25db, which is by no means silent. My fans are all QUIET fans that are less than 25db and cool my system beautifully, even though I am running in a shuttle style case.

As for the LCD, Dell actually makes some nice LCDs. So I say go for the LCD.

For a tuner? DO NOT get the stupid ATI All-In-Wonder EVER. It is overpriced and more than 2x the price of an individual video card and tuner that would function independantly from one another. I know you did not mention it, but I did not want anyone to suggest it because it is so awful. Get one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815116625 It is not too much and will get the job done very well.
william
OK, two questions. One. What do you mean by "expert?" And two. What risks are you referring to? And also, I agree. The All-in-wonder is junk. Someone recommended it to me. One brief look is all I needed to reject it.
psycosquirrel
Expert = has been overclocking for over a year, works for a living with computers and tweaking them, actually is a producer of some sort of hardware, or has extensive experience pertaining directly to computers in some other way.

If you have to ask about the risks, you are not an expert Laughing Here is a quote I like about watercooling:
Quote:
When done poorly, watercooling is as safe as an underwater LAN party.


As with any custom cooling, there are TONS of risks.

First off, you INSTANTLY void your warrantee by removing the stock cooling. This little-known fact screws many people when they over-overclock.

The next risk is the most obvious; leakage. If there is a minor leak in the WC loop, your computer is toast. Ever dropped a computer in water before? It is not pretty.

Next is damage to non-watercooled components. Because watercooling usually involves an external radiator, the only airflow for the components without watercooling is inexistant or comes from the low airflow of the power supply.

Related to the last risk is the HIGH ambient temperature generated because of the lack of airflow. This reduces component life and will lead to premature death of components like hard drives, cd drives, and RAM.

Ever heard of someone's watercooling loop getting algae? It is all too common. The watercooling is warm and there is plenty of water or fluid. Bacteria will flourish in any environment, and using any sort of anti-growth compounds (bleach, chlorine, etc) will corrode your components.

Also, there is corrosion issues from improperly made systems. A loop with two heatsinks of different metals will usually result in corrosion and clogging of the heatsinks. This leads to overheating, which will instantly kill components (especially video cards).

An improperly bled loop will contain bubbles. Eventually they will kill the pump.


Since I am not a watercooling user, I do not know all the risks... Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but the biggest one is obvious: leakage. Trust me, just get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118223 for the CPU and something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118006 for the GPUs. Then, get a quiet PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151025 and 120mm fans with LOW noise ratings for less noise than low and medium quality watercooling for much less money and better temps.
william
Not many people work for a living with computers. Very Happy Yeah, I thought you meant some other risks besides those. I know of all those risks. I understand your criticism to water cooling. If you don't make any mistakes, water cooling is OK. But, making sure you won't mess up is indeed a difficult task. The only reason I said water cooling is because I'm annoyed by my noisy fans. And, thanks for the details. Like I said, I knew about these risks, I thought you were refering to some other risks.

Anyway, the sound card is one thing I haven't talked about. How's the Sound Blaster Elite Pro?
psycosquirrel
Okay cool, so you know plenty about computers then Very Happy

The Elite Pro is just a fancy X-Fi with an external remote I think... I would go with the Fatal1ty X-Fi instead of the Elite pro, I think it is a bit less expensive for the same audio. It also has a remote, but the external control plate thing mounts in a 5.25 bay instead of taking up room on your desk. Or even you could go with the Audigy2 or standard X-Fi. Any way you go, they are all GREAT cards.
william
I find the Elite Pro as the best, in terms of features. But, I'm not so sure about the difference in quality between the Elite Pro, the Fatal1ty, and the others. Could anybody compare the quality on a scale of 1-10? Also, does anyone own one of these cards?
psycosquirrel
Both are past a 10. Just go with whatever you prefer
william
Alright. Also, I updated the parts. Though, I'm going to change the RAM to DDR2 (Currently DDR) since the new CPU I chose is compatible.
ForceRun
Listen to psycosquirrel for the most part to totally agree with him. As far as AMD it is way better for Gaming, and I still wouldn't pay more than $300 for a CPU. Unless ATi pulls out a sweet new card, good to go with Nvidia. As far as LCD vs CRT, anything under 12ms response time on a good LCD is fine. CRT really is old tech, and I have not seen any better CRT than my older cheapo 19in LCD with a 16ms reponse time. Those Dell are very nice, and are a lot better than any CRT. You just have to pay for it! Go with Duel Channel DDR 2 memory if you set the system up right you will have a lot more power and speed. As far as your case the Transformer case isn't all that great, a friend had one and the door looks dumb and wears out pretty fast. SB Audugy 2 or the X-Fi is the best deal for gaming and sweet sound. Even for experts water cooling is a pain, and you have to worry about leaks, blockage, and refulling the coolant. But you can get sweet clockspeeds, add if you do it right you computer will run a lot cooler. It also cost more, risky, and makes you case heck of heavy. So it is total up to you, just know that it is a lot more work and worry.
william
I'm going to do most of that, except the CPU. Also, I'm not getting water cooling. Water cooling was just a thought. And also, I am going to use dual channel. The current RAM I have is DDR, but I will change it to DDR2. My only question is, what's wrong with the Transformer, exactly? Are you saying the door doesn't last?
ForceRun
It's just plastic, during transport, or just heavy use you can easily break the lock, hinges, or so on. Remember you will have to open it every time you want acess to you optical drives. The case is fine I really just don't like the front. I love Sunbeam cases in general, not the best on cooling, or durablity, but they look good, lol
william
ForceRun wrote:
It's just plastic, during transport, or just heavy use you can easily break the lock, hinges, or so on. Remember you will have to open it every time you want acess to you optical drives. The case is fine I really just don't like the front. I love Sunbeam cases in general, not the best on cooling, or durablity, but they look good, lol


Plastic?! Thanks for the information. I'm definitely going to think twice on the case. Also, the thing about cooling. I've heard some good comments on cooling. How'd you describe the cooling?
ForceRun
I took a closer look at the case. The cooling is a little better than normal, but nothing all that great, the new Antec cases have much better cooling. Also if you want to water cool your system I think it looks better and works better to use a water cooling case that already has the holes for the hoses, like Themaltakes Tsunami
alkady
Forget the Pentium Chip, If you didnt hear the news, Intel is dropping the Pentium Line for the new Core Duo 2 Line that is going to come out in a year or two.
william
I see what you mean. I'm not going to watercool it so, I guess my only worry is the door. Though, I won't be going to any LAN parties, this computer is going to stay put. I had a computer case with a door once and it was much worse than this, nothing happened to it in the last 8 years. But, yeah I will think twice.

OK, so I have most of the parts. What about a TV tuner? I'm not looking towards the All-in-wonder, I'm mainly looking at the Hauppauge WINTV-PVR-150 and the Hauppauge WINTV-PVR-500 MCE. What do you guys recommend? A dual tuner would be nice, but a single tuner will do.
ForceRun
You can play the wait and see game, or you could actually buy a computer, and be able to use it now. It is really dumb too wait forever for the next best tech, buy when you need more power and your got the money. Simple.
mikajoh
Here are the parts I think you should use:

Motherboard Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32X (Sokket AM2)
CPU AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 (Sokket AM2)
CPU Cooler Scythe "Ninja" SCNJ-1000 (with SilenX 120mm Ixtrema Quiet 14dbA fan)
RAM two set of Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C3 (DDR2)
GPU two Gainward nVidia GeForce 7950 GX2 (in SLi)
HDD two Seagate NL35 250GB (in RAID0)
PSU Silverstone Zeus 750W
Case Lian Li PC-V2100B
CD/DVD two Plextor PX-716SA
Soundcard Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

With this computer you would be able to play even F.E.A.R with full graphic with 8xAA and 16xAF @ 2048x1536 perfectly Cool
william
Yeah, those parts are pretty good, though how much will those parts cost? I'm not really looking at the GeForce 7950 GX2, especially two of them. That's 4 GPU's; and that's really a waste, since there aren't many games, if at all, that utilize all 4 cards. But the other parts seem OK, except the HDD. RAID 0 isn't that reliable, though RAID 0+1 is. Oh, one more thing, do you think I really need a 750 W power supply?
mikajoh
Well, the game would be able to utilize it, but not even that fx-62 would be able to draw enough strength out of them to make any big different, anyway, you are still right about not use two of them, so i rather switch to two x1900xtx in crossfire

I know that Raid 0 is reliable, but it can show it self to be really fast ^^

750W psu = no need for uppgrade in a while

EDIT: well, it might got just a liitle bit over the prize

EDIT 2: uhm, if you are going to a lots of lan parties, you shouldnt use that case neither, its pretty da** huge ^^
william
mikajoh wrote:
Well, the game would be able to utilize it, but not even that fx-62 would be able to draw enough strength out of them to make any big different, anyway, you are still right about not use two of them, so i rather switch to two x1900xtx in crossfire

I know that Raid 0 is reliable, but it can show it self to be really fast ^^

750W psu = no need for uppgrade in a while

EDIT: well, it might got just a liitle bit over the prize


That's true. Though, I'm thinking about two 7900 GTX's in SLI. I'm staying away from ATI when it comes to high end cards.

Well RAID 0+1 is fast and reliable. I'd say it's the best option. Also, I suppose you're right about the power supply.

Oh also, I'll probably use just one internal DVD burner and maybe a second DVD-ROM drive. I'm not going to spend much money on an optical drive. I'll buy either a Blu-ray Drive or an HD-DVD drive, depending on which one goes mainstream later on.

Anyway, thanks for the tips.
mikajoh
Quote:
That's true. Though, I'm thinking about two 7900 GTX's in SLI. I'm staying away from ATI when it comes to high end cards.

Why stay away from ATi?

Quote:
Well RAID 0+1 is fast and reliable.


Well, I agree, my self, i think i would use RAID 0+1 too, so you are right ^^

Quote:
Oh also, I'll probably use just one internal DVD burner and maybe a second DVD-ROM drive. I'm not going to spend much money on an optical drive. I'll buy either a Blu-ray Drive or an HD-DVD drive, depending on which one goes mainstream later on.


I agree with here also, I think i made the settup to fast, didnt think it over ^^

Quote:

Anyway, thanks for the tips.

No problem, always funny to help Smile


EDIT:
Quote:
Why stay away from ATi?
The motherboard doesnt support crossfire, what a noob i am, I forget to think sometimes, lol sry (bessides, ATi havent come out with any good AM2 chip set yet,or well they have, but they are not in production yet, so it wont do any good changing the motherborad, ^^) Razz
william
mikajoh wrote:
Quote:
That's true. Though, I'm thinking about two 7900 GTX's in SLI. I'm staying away from ATI when it comes to high end cards.

Why stay away from ATi?



Well, ATI runs much hotter, and, like you said, the motherboard doesn't support Crossfire.

One more thing, what do think about a dual TV tuner?
mikajoh
If you were up to buy tv tuner, i would say Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE

Well, if you are comparing using dual/single tuner, that is up to what you use it for (what you watch)
If you for example like sports, it would be smart have a dual tuner (despite the fact that it cost more) because you more easy can follow more games at the same time
william
Yeah, that's the TV tuner I was looking at. Well, I have most of the parts now. Just a few more items. Do you have any other recommendations?
mikajoh
Uhm, i dunno, nothing i can come up with right now.

Except one thing, have fun playing on a High End computer Cool
william
Very Happy Once again, thanks for the tips.
mikajoh
No problem Smile

Oh, one thing, what gaming gear do you use? ^^

EDIT: and what games do you play?
william
OK, now I have a problem. Like I said, I'm not building this computer for a while. Now that Core 2 is on the way, I'd like to replace the FX-62 with Core 2 Extreme and a compatible motherboard. What do you think?
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