There is a common problem. We cannot explain how the universe has begun, so many people say...God created universe and they think that all has been solved. But they got into even bigger problem. The creator must be more complicated than the thing he creates, so the question now is: How was God created. Isn´t it a paradox? What is your opinion?
God and beginning of universe
Jesus said that God was always. Don't ask me how's it possible to be "always", human's mind is too weak to understand that. God gave us His intelligence, but just 3-4% of the intelligence is unlocked in our minds.
There's not only one universe. There are many universes, totally different. Our universe exists about 16 000 000 000 years, but it doesn't mean that nothing was before. Uor universe is still young, and other universes may exist even 30 000 000 000 years.
PS:
1 million=1 000 000? or 1 billion=1 000 000
I always have problem with this
There's not only one universe. There are many universes, totally different. Our universe exists about 16 000 000 000 years, but it doesn't mean that nothing was before. Uor universe is still young, and other universes may exist even 30 000 000 000 years.
PS:
1 million=1 000 000? or 1 billion=1 000 000
I always have problem with this
"Always" is a nice word, but for me it is unacceptible that something was always here!! It is true that my brain is not working on 100%, but this paradox is something I cannot look over. But from quantum mechanics I know that many things on this world are strange and not clear to human mind. Science gives good answer for times form 10^(-34) s, but what was before nobody knows. Maybe one day we will figure it out.
| redace wrote: |
| Maybe one day we will figure it out. |
I'm sure we won't. And we don't need to.
Yes it's a big paradox, I can't imagine anything (a god or anything else) that was always, nor can I imagine that there was a beginning to all, before which there was nothing.
But anyway, who cares ? First we probably won't ever know it, secondly our life would probably not be influenced by this knowledge.
That's the problem! We're trying to figure it out, and we're not supposed to. It's a mystery of life, something not so easily explained. God is the alpha, the omega... the beginning and the end. He exists, has existed, and will continue to exist.
"Always" (whether you accept it or not) is the truth, God was always, is always, and will always be.
"Always" (whether you accept it or not) is the truth, God was always, is always, and will always be.
String Theory, promblem solved.
God does not exist.
God does not exist.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| That's the problem! We're trying to figure it out, and we're not supposed to. It's a mystery of life ... |
Seriously.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| That's the problem! We're trying to figure it out, and we're not supposed to. It's a mystery of life, something not so easily explained. |
Since when are we not supposed to try to figure stuff out? Flight was a mystery. We've pretty much figured that out. Birth was a mystery, and we've got that pretty much down, too. The stars were a mystery, but we're pretty sure we know what's going on there, too.
The basic truth that I have reasoned for myself from my religion and science is the following:
* God is a human construct. There is no all powerful invisible man lording over everything. God is man's intellect trying to understand nature. Consider this: Is it FAIR that you can spend 100 years here and not accept a God and then that all loving being will punish you for all eternity. But remember, God loves you...makes no sense.
* The church was created by man for control. Think what would happen if you invented something that only you sold and everyone wanted: power! The church sells eternal life and we all want to live forever! The chuch sells the ultimate product.
Just my thoughts...
* God is a human construct. There is no all powerful invisible man lording over everything. God is man's intellect trying to understand nature. Consider this: Is it FAIR that you can spend 100 years here and not accept a God and then that all loving being will punish you for all eternity. But remember, God loves you...makes no sense.
* The church was created by man for control. Think what would happen if you invented something that only you sold and everyone wanted: power! The church sells eternal life and we all want to live forever! The chuch sells the ultimate product.
Just my thoughts...
| Indi wrote: | ||
Since when are we not supposed to try to figure stuff out? Flight was a mystery. We've pretty much figured that out. Birth was a mystery, and we've got that pretty much down, too. The stars were a mystery, but we're pretty sure we know what's going on there, too. |
| shadedflame wrote: |
| String Theory, promblem solved.
God does not exist. |
I think that string theory is not in the phase , which solves the problem of the beginning of the universe. But I´m not Edward Witten:)
Look, what oldest texts of Aryans "Rig Veda" says about creation:-
| Quote: |
| The non-existent was not; the existent was not at that time. The atmosphere was not nor the heavens which are beyond. What was concealed? Where? In whose protection? Was it water? An unfathomable abyss?
There was neither death nor immortality then. There was not distinction of day or night. That alone breathed windless by its own power. Other than that there was not anything else. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning. All this was an indistinguishable sea. That which becomes, that which was enveloped by the void, that alone was born through the power of heat. Upon that desire arose in the beginning. This was the first discharge of thought. Sages discovered this link of the existent to the nonexistent, having searched in the heart with wisdom. Their line [of vision] was extended across; what was below, what was above? There were impregnators, there were powers: inherent power below, impulses above. Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation? The gods are subsequent to the creation of this. Who, then, knows whence it has come into being? Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest heaven is its surveyor. Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not |
| Sebaci wrote: |
|
1 million=1 000 000? or 1 billion=1 000 000 I always have problem with this |
1 million is 1 000 000.
It used to be the case that in the UK 1 billion meant 1 000 000 000 000, i.e. 1 million million. But the American view defining a billion as a thousand million seems to have prevailed (sensibly, in my view).
So now we have thousands, millions, billions, trillions all forming a nice sequence. But I don't know what the old UK definition of a trillion would have been - a thousand billion, a million billion or a billion billion? Anyone know?
Oh yes, I also feel that I have no need to have a creator for the universe. That the universe exists is amazing in itself - why add to the complexity by adding a creator too and make the paradox worse in doing so? I just don't see the need to demand this. But I don't exclude it as a possibility just because I personally don't see the need.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| That's the problem! We're trying to figure it out, and we're not supposed to. It's a mystery of life, something not so easily explained. God is the alpha, the omega... the beginning and the end. He exists, has existed, and will continue to exist.
"Always" (whether you accept it or not) is the truth, God was always, is always, and will always be. |
Since this is the religion and Philosphy board, I'll ignore whether God exists. But I would be curious, like others, as to why you say we aren't supposed to figure it out? Is our God-given intellect and curiousity a trap? Something there that we shouldn't exercise? As someone pointed out that would imply man should have stopped all progress back in the old testament and that is not something I ever heard put forth before. If that is not the case, why are you saying we are not supposed to figure out the universe? Where is the God ordained cut off of knowledge and who made it?
The big bang theory does not refute any existence of a creator, as it almost seems to be spontaneous creation. Also, the likelyhood of the embodiment of what god really is, is in fact probably very deviant from the views Christians and many other religions put forth. This being said, I myself am not christian, I am a buddhist and I believe that the christian interpretation of what god may be is really just an egotistical anthropomorphisism of something far more elusive and less tangible. The idea of god is actually the most irrelevent factor of what embodies religion. Don't believe me? Take a long hard look at all the major orthodox and dogmatic qualities inherent to organized religion in general. In fact, study theology a bit and you'll realize that the roots of almost all religion have similar beginnings. The story of Buddha and other such, "mystics" are older than the story of Jesus and these mystics preach similar ideals and principles. C.S. Lewis, famous author of Chronicles of Narnia, would argue that it's not so much as important as the philosophies which Jesus taught, but moreover his importance as being the son of god. So throwing the subjective teachings of Jesus, we are left with little evidence, or any credible fact whatsoever that even proves such a being existed, or more importantly that his miracles were not exaggerated and lastly that he is the who people believed him to be. More appropriate, as most christian beliefs; Jesus was a tale influenced and spurned from the ashes of paganism. In fact, the only real historical proof related to any such person, was a young Jewish scholar by the name of Jeshu. Christmas is also a Hallmark holiday, because Jesus (if he was real) most certainly was not born in December, and almost certainly he was probably born in a different location altogether. The real Christmas holiday, once again was adapted form an old pagan roman celebration, that was also celebrated during winter times.
I believe that panthiests and buddhists are the most realistic ponderers of what god is. The Universe and everything in it embodies god, of course the word, "god" in different religions has different connotations and does not necessarily imply a creator. Looking at a religious timeline, one would discern the oldest religion to be agnosticism, after which came paganism. Paganism was most interest because people would personify things in a most pragmatic manner. Water and the sun, rain, fertility; these qualities were given human attributes and revered because they in fact, did sustain life.With the ego of man grew the ego of god. We see that man made god in his own image, rather than the other way around. The anthropomorphism of god, as a singular entity arose from man's need to identify himself as a singular being. We even see how the philosophies of those writing the bible, directly reflects how their interpretation of "god" was represented.
Lastly, arbitrary quibbles among differing faiths, all from the same root; i.e. - muslims, jews, christians and every sect that differs respectively within this triumvirate of root religions, all these quibbles prove that interpretation is the folly of religion. When the earth was created, how long it took to create, how it was created, and how old the earth is itself - these concepts are arbitrary in a religious sense. Arbirtrary because religion cannot explain or prove these things, and science can only provide rough figures, which, although rough they may be, give more evidence and insight than any one religion. The sabbath, the seven days of the week, this was all open to interpretation, as the Gregorian calender, which was invented centuries later, would be the only accurate way of labeling such days. Also, as far as semantics go, we can assume, based on other fables, that the bible is mostly allegory and also that most of it is relative to the time in which it was written.
I believe that panthiests and buddhists are the most realistic ponderers of what god is. The Universe and everything in it embodies god, of course the word, "god" in different religions has different connotations and does not necessarily imply a creator. Looking at a religious timeline, one would discern the oldest religion to be agnosticism, after which came paganism. Paganism was most interest because people would personify things in a most pragmatic manner. Water and the sun, rain, fertility; these qualities were given human attributes and revered because they in fact, did sustain life.With the ego of man grew the ego of god. We see that man made god in his own image, rather than the other way around. The anthropomorphism of god, as a singular entity arose from man's need to identify himself as a singular being. We even see how the philosophies of those writing the bible, directly reflects how their interpretation of "god" was represented.
Lastly, arbitrary quibbles among differing faiths, all from the same root; i.e. - muslims, jews, christians and every sect that differs respectively within this triumvirate of root religions, all these quibbles prove that interpretation is the folly of religion. When the earth was created, how long it took to create, how it was created, and how old the earth is itself - these concepts are arbitrary in a religious sense. Arbirtrary because religion cannot explain or prove these things, and science can only provide rough figures, which, although rough they may be, give more evidence and insight than any one religion. The sabbath, the seven days of the week, this was all open to interpretation, as the Gregorian calender, which was invented centuries later, would be the only accurate way of labeling such days. Also, as far as semantics go, we can assume, based on other fables, that the bible is mostly allegory and also that most of it is relative to the time in which it was written.
| nam_siddharth wrote: | ||
Look, what oldest texts of Aryans "Rig Veda" says about creation:-
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These are great quotes. I think it's most ironic that skinheads or neo-nazies refer to themselves as aryans, when in fact, the Aryans were a nomadic, sanskrit speaking people that came from the Middle East. So essentially more proof that Nazis are complete and utter morons.
| dyrtyrice wrote: |
|
These are great quotes. I think it's most ironic that skinheads or neo-nazies refer to themselves as aryans, when in fact, the Aryans were a nomadic, sanskrit speaking people that came from the Middle East. So essentially more proof that Nazis are complete and utter morons. |
Like any was needed!Seriously guys, we have been through this over 1000 times. Creationism and Intelligent Design and Evolution has been going at it since the beginning of enlightenment times. I believe that it is unjust to crown suck an unworthy topic any more attention. People have been killed on this matter. If you ask my opinion, I would tell you that i believe in the fact of evolution cause it provides a move logical explanation to the creation of the world. In religion wise God is phenomenal, he has not shown himself or proven his existence, just a bunch of people trying to realize that hes alive and trying to make him into a holy being. I dislike that! I need Proofs and Evidence! HURRAH TO EVOLUTION, ALL HAIL CHARLES DARWIN!
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