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Is Lucifer the Devil?





TearAlchemist001
I have an argument to present. my friends and I have long disputed between whether or not Lucifer is the devil.

My side: Lucifer is merely a Fallen Angel who led the revolt, and thus his wings were torn from him. His name means lightbearer, and he has no connection with the devil. Satan and Lucifer are two different people.

Her side: Lucifer and Satan are the same person. That's it.
Yantaal
My opinion: They are both ficticious characters andneither exist.

but assuming they do, Lucifer is just one of the many name Satan goes by isnt it?

and didnt they fall from heaven for playing Rock and Roll? lol
wumingsden
I also believe Lucifer to be a fallen angel although i don't completely believe in it all. I was interest in it a bit and so searched google. Google's definition of Lucifer are the following:

Quote:

Satan: (Judeo-Christian and Islamic religions) chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell


(from
here)

Quote:

Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer.


and

Quote:

From the viewpoint of the 5th century Christian tradition, Lucifer is seen as having been second in command to God himself; he was the highest archangel in heaven, but he was motivated by pride and greed to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven, followed by a third of the host of heaven. In later Christian tradition and folklore, Lucifer was identified explicitly with Satan. Such beliefs are thought by some to be contrary to Jesus' teachings, and to exalt Satan and Lucifer to positions and powers not supported in the Bible (see below). Modern concepts of Lucifer and Satan come from embelishments in fictional works like Dante's The Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, rather than Biblical sources.


(from here)

Quote:

Devil, Satan, Lucifer—is the leader of the evil angels who rebelled against God


(from here)

Quote:

Satan, especially as the leader of the revolt of the angels before his fall from heaven


(from here)

I guess everybody has there own opinions on the subject, whats yours ?
ocalhoun
Of course they're the same person.
If lucifer is not the devil, who is?
wumingsden
ocalhoun wrote:
Of course they're the same person.
If lucifer is not the devil, who is?


I guess some may see the relationship of Lucifer => the Devil as like Jesus => God. I have to agree that in a way I see it this way too
snjripp
I have always considered them the same person. Whether or not they plan a vital role in soteriology is a tougher question for me.

Personally I like the imagery of the book of Job when it comes to Lucifer. He goes out to test the king's subjects as a first in command used to do. If there is weakness found by the number two, the weakness can be reinforced. If there is no weakness, the kingdom is safe from attack from those outside the kingdom. Job is tested for these weaknesses. The results, however, are unclear as is the testing and reachion of lucifer.

Rebel or not, Lucifer and Satan are probably mythologic concepts now based on entities that may still exist. How do we separate the myth from the entities, and is myth the only way we can explain these entities/entity?
livilou
Okay, here's my thoughts on this.

Lucifer by name, was the lightbearer. What you have to realize is that when Lucifer led the revolt against God, he was in a position of leadership. When he was cast out, he kept the position. Satan is the leader of demons. Satan and Lucifer is the same being.
Sebaci
Satan is not the only evil. He has many servants - Lucifer, Asmodeus, and much more demons. Demons are like angels, but they're evil of course Wink
Asmodeus's job is to destroy all the love in the world.
Quote:
I guess some may see the relationship of Lucifer => the Devil as like Jesus => God. I have to agree that in a way I see it this way too

Yeah, just something like this.

And just one thing: We don't know their real names, they're all liers. It means that Satan, Lucifer, Asmodeus, etc aren't their real names, just used by people. And I say again: Satan is not alone. One egsorcist (I don't know if I wrote it correctly, you know, I'm Polish) asked the Satan: "How many of you are there?" (I hope I wrote it correctly). The satan answered: "Legions, because there's a lots of us". Maybe it's true, or its another lie. But I think Satan is not the only evil guy
polarBear
Ever heard of Semjazaz or Azazel?
Sebaci
polarBear wrote:
Ever heard of Semjazaz or Azazel?

No Razz Who is he. Or maybe i know who he is, but in Polish language Razz
Soulfire
Lucifer was the leader against God, and continues to be. As the "leader" of the rebellion against God, in my opinion that makes him the leader of Hell, and thus Satan.
megamass
They are both from dark side... I don't believe in them, but i think that they are clones... The devil should look like a devil from Star Wars (with red stripes on his face) and lucifer should be small version of devil (like Doctors Evils clone MiniMe from Austin Powers film Very Happy)...

So you are discussing about Devil and Lucifer. Let's add Evil...Satan... So who is who now?
Whong
Lucifer is the fallen angel who is against God, he is the devil, satan.
He will burn in hell one day for ever!
Sebaci
Whong wrote:
Lucifer is the fallen angel who is against God, he is the devil, satan.
He will burn in hell one day for ever!

Lucifer and Satan are not the same person. Satan is like God, Lucifer is like Jesus. I mean Lucifer is servant od Satan. The Satan's servants are demons, they're like angels, but they're evil of course.
transcendum
I suppose such a discussion requires etymological research rather than giving opinionated, unjustified answers.

First of all, Lucifer is derived directly from Latin. So we can be sure that this name didn't exist before the formation of the Latin language or one of its immediate ancestors. So whether it's the name of the Ultimate Devil or of something else, it isn't its real name, but merely a pseudonym or a form of adjective.



to be continued.... Smile
jabapyth
Lucifer IS the devil (if you can call it that): not in the little red guy with horns and pitchfork way, but in that he is the enemy of God. (Call him a fallen angel if you like, it doesnt change who he is) Cool
superbyte
In some religions they believe that there are so many "creatures" from Hell and Lucifer is just one of them, Devil is another, Satan is another one and you will find so many more in a web search.

That looks something hard to believe, but if there's a God, it should be a Devil Twisted Evil
Whong
Sebaci wrote:
Lucifer and Satan are not the same person. Satan is like God, Lucifer is like Jesus. I mean Lucifer is servant od Satan. The Satan's servants are demons, they're like angels, but they're evil of course.


NO!! Lucifer = Satan is the opposite of God! Antichrist is the opposite of Jesus!
The wrong prophet is the opposite of the Holy Spirit!

This is how I understand it! Laughing

Check it from the Bible!! Exclamation Idea
bluffmango
wat is lucifer may io know that polzzzz?/
Twikki
bluffmango wrote:
wat is lucifer may io know that polzzzz?/


Lucifer, was fabled to be second in command to God but he became full of greed and was stripped of his wings and sent down to hell, He was (and still is) trying to rebel against god, I Believe that if hell existed before Lucifer was sent there, that means there was a satan at that time already
stinky321
How do we know lucifer is bad? I mean maybe just god won the war and became the ruler and pointed out he is good, but maybe its like in a war if you attack a country and conquer it some day it will be brought back.
A little example from the history: Around 15 century AD there was a correction for the Christian religion because people didn`t belive in it anymore so god fought back. If u belive in god and some day you die and go to hell and find god then remember my words
risuarez
My dear friends:

Satan and lucifer are not the same guys. Lucifer is in fact the fallen angerl who we now assoicate with the devil. But Satan is not a bad guy.

As you may know there is an organization in heaven, here are nine types of angels and all of them carry on a different duty. Well, Satan translated literally means "the acuser" or in plain english "the prosecutor" he is another angel of god, and follow his orders. It is just that he is in charge to accuse you of your sins the day of the final trial. Is like the prosecutor, a prosecutor is a member of the government who is in charge of accusing you against a judge in the same government.

We should not confuse Satan and lucifer, they are different persons.
Whong
risuarez wrote:
My dear friends:

Satan and lucifer are not the same guys. Lucifer is in fact the fallen angerl who we now assoicate with the devil. But Satan is not a bad guy.

As you may know there is an organization in heaven, here are nine types of angels and all of them carry on a different duty. Well, Satan translated literally means "the acuser" or in plain english "the prosecutor" he is another angel of god, and follow his orders. It is just that he is in charge to accuse you of your sins the day of the final trial. Is like the prosecutor, a prosecutor is a member of the government who is in charge of accusing you against a judge in the same government.

We should not confuse Satan and lucifer, they are different persons.


What are you thinking Question The satan is lucifer and he is bad Exclamation I'll spell it out to you once more, Satan is bad, the baddest! Exclamation Idea

Please never say that the devil is good for he is evil! Wink
risuarez
I am not thinking anything. What I am telling you is a fact from hebrew mithology. the word "Satan" in hebrew means "The acuser", "the opponent" or the "prosecutor". He is a god's angel in charge of accusing you of your sins the day of the final trial. Where you will be judged by God himself. If you don't believe me you culd read the old text written by the medieval Christian theologians, and specifically the one by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite in the Fourth or Fifth century, in his book The Celestial Hierarchy.


Lucifer is the fallen angel. He IS the bad guy. he IS evil. He was the one who wanted to be like god and was expelled from heaven and now tries to win men to his cause by tempting them to do the evil.

I will really appreciate if you were more impartial, and objective about this and if you are gonna opose do it with a base and demostrataion not with personal conjectures based on beliefs.
Vrythramax
in Lucifer's own words "I would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven", given that, how can he be a servant of anything...call it devil, demon, fallen angel...it all boils down to Lucifer rules in hell. If that is true then it's one of two things...either Lucifer IS the devil, or the devil serves him in some fashion.

In my religion we were taught that were/are one in the same.

Interesting point that was made about the origin of his name as coming from latin and if latin didn't exist...where did it come from. Maybe the real question should be...where did Latin come from...or any other langauge for that matter.
risuarez
In hebrew mithology Lucifer is not Satan. Satan and Lucifer are diferent people. One (satan) is the prosecutor of heaven who will accuse you the final trial. but he performe that role by request of God himself and Lucifer (a different entity) is the devil, the fallen angel. Lucifer is the bad guy. Lucifer will be the criminal who tempt you to do the crime. And Satan will later accuse you of that crime.

I will state it again so that you do not missunderstand me again:

Lucifer and Satan are not the same. They are different from one another. That is according to the Hebrew mithology not our traditional common-sense, modern knowledge.
mike1reynolds
That is very interesting. ¿Es usted Judío? I am very interested in Jewish mythology. Are you familiar with the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife?
Vrythramax
mike1reynolds wrote:
That is very interesting. ¿Es usted Judío? I am very interested in Jewish mythology. Are you familiar with the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife?


Excellant Question! Maybe you should start a topic on Lilith alone...I'd love to see what others think her, or if they have even heard of her.

Good One Cool
totax
I Think Lucifer is satan cause....
For a long time long before the earth...Lucifer was an angel with godt
a good angel....
He was one of the most poverfoul angels.......
He started to be angry at God cause he was the most powerful....
Then he got som other angels (deamons) with him to potestant...
Then they got "kicked" from heaven....


Im norwegian an i am not so good in english.....But i hope you understand me.....

God Bless you
risuarez
mike1reynolds wrote:
That is very interesting. ¿Es usted Judío? I am very interested in Jewish mythology. Are you familiar with the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife?


Yes! I am aware of her. She was the first wife of Adan and left the garden because she didn't want to be beneath him. This story comes from a lack of concordance in the book of genesis. I think that in cahpter one it says that" "and god created men and male and female he created them" therefore it is assuming that there was a first women becuase it is until chapter two that it says: "And god saw that it was not good for man to be alone, so he created a woman" it is not exactly but is says something like that.

And no, I am not jewish. As a matter of fact I am a non-believer. I just happen to like watching the history channel, national geographics and the discovery jajajaja. I really like history and interesting miths like these ones.

It will be a good idea if you open a tread to talk about lilith
Vrythramax
@risuarez

If he doesn't start that topic I will...I'd love to hear what people have to say about Lilith Smile

(should rattle some cages...*snicker*)
mike1reynolds
Please do, I feel remise in not doing it, but I'm too bogged down with too many debates.
darioabram
-- DELETED --
chameul
TearAlchemist001 wrote:
I have an argument to present. my friends and I have long disputed between whether or not Lucifer is the devil.

My side: Lucifer is merely a Fallen Angel who led the revolt, and thus his wings were torn from him. His name means lightbearer, and he has no connection with the devil. Satan and Lucifer are two different people.

Her side: Lucifer and Satan are the same person. That's it.


I beleive they are 2 different beings, in the bible lucifer was sent to hell and circles the abyss until the rapture where he is free, and satan which is allowed to exit heaven and hell anytime he wants consider the story of job in the bible
chameul
darioabram wrote:
Lucifer is only a Fallen Angel, as someone already mentioned. Satan is something very shallow... Satan = Evil

I have to disagree with that. Lucifer is often represented by a Light Spirit, or Angel of Light. I believe Lucifer is only a mere thought.
Nothing more. Satan is something shallow, but at the same time more complicated. If you believe in Evil, you believe in Satan. Right? Well, what about all those demons...? You can't stop at only one point. Satan = Lucifer and vice versa. There exists only one Force. You!

My point's done!

satan was once an angel the member of gods high court, he isnt techinecally evil if u think about it, in the bible he never once acted against man without the lord gods permission. agan consider the story of job and why do people reply to a religious thread when they dont believe in god
Bikerman
chameul wrote:
TearAlchemist001 wrote:
I have an argument to present. my friends and I have long disputed between whether or not Lucifer is the devil.

My side: Lucifer is merely a Fallen Angel who led the revolt, and thus his wings were torn from him. His name means lightbearer, and he has no connection with the devil. Satan and Lucifer are two different people.

Her side: Lucifer and Satan are the same person. That's it.


I beleive they are 2 different beings, in the bible lucifer was sent to hell and circles the abyss until the rapture where he is free, and satan which is allowed to exit heaven and hell anytime he wants consider the story of job in the bible
I bet you can't tell me where in the bible that happens....
Lucifer is mentioned once in the bible - Isaiah 14:12 - and if you ask the Jews what the reference is to, they will tell you it is the story of a Babylonian king, not 'satan'.
Interesting also that the word lucifer is from the latin, not hebrew or greek...('lucem ferre' - bringer of light). Lucifer was the Roman god of the morning star...
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