The world would be a better place if we were all just atheist with high morals.
Better World
John Lennon in his Imagine Song
wrote about this better world
without religion we would belong
to a community divided onefold
you may say he's a dreamer,
but he's not the only one,
Where he hopes some day we'll join him,
and the world can live as one.
For I too believe that righteousness
Can tear us all apart
if you take it too seriously,
and ignore the heart.
But there is one more thing to say
about the reason why
so many people hungry today
and people hurt and die
is not the will of God we know
but humankind today
who choose himself above the rest
with hate and anger astray
For God himself gives us law
and tells us all to love
For those who choose to think they're right
should verify from above
Do not impose your imperfect belief
that what you think is right
on others who consider differently
else you end up with a fight
But rather look to those with love
and listen to their word.
And help those who need your help,
and the poor who can't afford.
For God himself said do not judge
For all religions too,
The truth is out there somewhere,
that makes the world brand new.
But blindness makes us break the law
and hurt our fellow man
and yet god's word if listened to
can make us understand
that man needs law and order
to keep the world at ease
and this all comes from God
The God of love and peace.
wrote about this better world
without religion we would belong
to a community divided onefold
you may say he's a dreamer,
but he's not the only one,
Where he hopes some day we'll join him,
and the world can live as one.
For I too believe that righteousness
Can tear us all apart
if you take it too seriously,
and ignore the heart.
But there is one more thing to say
about the reason why
so many people hungry today
and people hurt and die
is not the will of God we know
but humankind today
who choose himself above the rest
with hate and anger astray
For God himself gives us law
and tells us all to love
For those who choose to think they're right
should verify from above
Do not impose your imperfect belief
that what you think is right
on others who consider differently
else you end up with a fight
But rather look to those with love
and listen to their word.
And help those who need your help,
and the poor who can't afford.
For God himself said do not judge
For all religions too,
The truth is out there somewhere,
that makes the world brand new.
But blindness makes us break the law
and hurt our fellow man
and yet god's word if listened to
can make us understand
that man needs law and order
to keep the world at ease
and this all comes from God
The God of love and peace.
Take a look on http://www.cws.org.nz
I can envision a near-perfect world, even with the diverse religions that we have today.. The solution: If there was no currency of any type, but people were respectable enough to do their job nonetheless--just to help benefit society. And no, this isn't communism.
Immagine a world without money. Firstly, theft would be impossible, or at least uneffective. Terrorism would still reign about, sure, but not for money or some type of reward (since everything would be free). Unfortunately, there's just far too many corrupted people for that to work. Nobody would do anything except hoard all the stuff they could get their hands on..
High morals come from religion. Atheists copy these high morals because they're part of the social code now, not because they randomly decided to be nice. That's my opinion, anyway. (Subconscious thinking)
Immagine a world without money. Firstly, theft would be impossible, or at least uneffective. Terrorism would still reign about, sure, but not for money or some type of reward (since everything would be free). Unfortunately, there's just far too many corrupted people for that to work. Nobody would do anything except hoard all the stuff they could get their hands on..
High morals come from religion. Atheists copy these high morals because they're part of the social code now, not because they randomly decided to be nice. That's my opinion, anyway. (Subconscious thinking)
| tready29483 wrote: |
| The world would be a better place if we were all just atheist with high morals. |
My question is, where would all those high morals come from? As Juparis stated, morals come from religion. Without religion, that you're so quick to dismiss, we would all be a bunch of savages that have no compassion for anyone.
While I mean no disrespect in this post, I'm just stating how I see it.
| livilou wrote: |
| My question is, where would all those high morals come from? As Juparis stated, morals come from religion. Without religion, that you're so quick to dismiss, we would all be a bunch of savages that have no compassion for anyone.
While I mean no disrespect in this post, I'm just stating how I see it. |
Thats crazy. He stated? What was that based on? His opinion? His opinion was more than likely based on his religious belief. Not fact. Bring the facts sir. People get their morals from the way they were raised. People raised without religion can still have high morals. All it is is knowing right from wrong. If you need some fiction novel about crazy jews (the bible) to give you morals then you are a very sad person and I'm sorry for you!
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Thats crazy. He stated? What was that based on? His opinion? His opinion was more than likely based on his religious belief. Not fact. Bring the facts sir. People get their morals from the way they were raised. People raised without religion can still have high morals. All it is is knowing right from wrong. If you need some fiction novel about crazy jews (the bible) to give you morals then you are a very sad person and I'm sorry for you! |
I'm sorry if you're looking for statistical information to be called fact--this is just such basic logic, that I assumed we could all agree it is fact.
My statement was not at all based on my religious beliefs, though it's easy to accuse it of being religious, since most atheists would deny it without even considering the possibility (which is what I'm assuming you've done?). As much as I hate to stereotype people, it's rather typical--atheists are too self absorbed and narrow-minded. At least, that's what I've picked up..
Everyone follows good morals because they're part of the social code. Not because people (as atheists) really have any idea of what's good or bad. Those are all morals taught by religion. And because religion is so influential, it has become largely integrated with society--hence, the social code we all follow. Without a social code, society would be nothing but chaos. If everyone was atheist, we'd all be dead by now. Luckily, over 90% of the world is religious, and enough of those religious people are in influential positions so that laws can be set and enforced--upholding a social code.
Saying you know what is right and wrong (as an atheist) is plain foolishness and vanity. You want to say that you came to that conclusion by yourself, when, unkowingly, the social code (started by religious morals) is what influenced you to think of what is right and what is wrong.
I base all my decisions on logic, not fiction. As far as narrow minded goes, most atheists admit they could be wrong. Where as "Christians" automatically write off anything that’s not in the "good book". They base their whole lives on some fictional book that was written by crazy people hundreds of years ago. Jesus’ brothers even thought he was crazy. And there is no possible way that Mary was a virgin and had a baby. We all know this. Mary got knocked up before she was married and lied. Regardless, people without religion can choose to be good people just like religious followers. But we won't go around killing people because they don't believe like us. How many people have died because of religion? How many atheists go around killing people and starting wars because not everyone thinks like us? If 90% of the world is religious then I could be wrong, but until God or Jesus come down and shakes my hand....I have a better chance of meeting the Easter bunny. The guy is dead...he isn't coming back...and god isn't real. Religion is your crutch...you need because you are weak minded. Read up on the Buddha....his story almost matches the story of Jesus, but 500 years earlier....that’s a fact...look it up. Read the book "The Power of Myth"
http://www.whidbey.net/parrott/moyers.htm
http://www.whidbey.net/parrott/moyers.htm
Atheism is nothing... really. An empty void, sucking everyone in. It must just be the cool thing to do, right? No, Jesus has my heart. The world is already screwed up, without believing in God... it would be that much worse.
Like I said....its a crutch for the weak. I'm a good person because I want to be...not because I'm going to "burn in hell" like your book states. Do some research....open your eyes. Religious people are the "closed minded" ones!
You say I use the Bible as a crutch? Actually, you're correct. I use what's in the Bible to guide my daily walk. I do not consider the Bible to be fiction. I consider it to be God's word, the road map for my daily walk. It shows me how to love other people, how to have and show compassion, and most of all, how not to judge someone because they don't believe like I do. What other people believe is between that person and whatever god they do or don't believe in. It's something I have no control over.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, nor will I ever be. I stumble and fall all the time, but my God is a loving and forgiving God. He bought me with his blood, sweat and tears and ultimately his life. But he will come back. You can call me crazy all day long for believing it. That's okay. But I've seen too much proof to not believe in him, and while I could sit here all day long and argue that proof, all you would do is find ways to dispute it. That's okay too. You don't have to believe. That's your choice. I won't try and take it away from you, as if I could.
I will pray for you that one day you understand what me and the others are trying to say though. I will love you even though you don't believe like we do. That is all I have control over, my actions and my thoughts. I will continue to believe in Jesus no matter what is said or done. He has stood by me during the good times and the bad times, I will do the same for Him.
God be with you on your daily travels. My your "crutch" never break.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, nor will I ever be. I stumble and fall all the time, but my God is a loving and forgiving God. He bought me with his blood, sweat and tears and ultimately his life. But he will come back. You can call me crazy all day long for believing it. That's okay. But I've seen too much proof to not believe in him, and while I could sit here all day long and argue that proof, all you would do is find ways to dispute it. That's okay too. You don't have to believe. That's your choice. I won't try and take it away from you, as if I could.
I will pray for you that one day you understand what me and the others are trying to say though. I will love you even though you don't believe like we do. That is all I have control over, my actions and my thoughts. I will continue to believe in Jesus no matter what is said or done. He has stood by me during the good times and the bad times, I will do the same for Him.
God be with you on your daily travels. My your "crutch" never break.
Of course I can come up with ways to dispute it. I use logic. There is wayy too much proof not to believe. Soo many holes in the story. And eveytime you ask someone to explain the holes....one generic answer...."don't question the bible" or "we don't need to know." Its all crap. Loads and loads of crap. I was raised in a Pentacostal Holiness Chruch in the deep south...so the bible was beat into my head. I've studied it, read it, know it well, and believe me its fiction. Like I said, its a good story, but nonetheless its fiction. Moses parting the red sea?? Jesus walking on water?? The burning bush...I know what kinda bush they were burning....its called weed! Thats why it was talking to them. I sure alot of things talked to them while they were "burning bush". Anyway, this can go over forever, All i have to say is I might be wrong....for all I know we should be worshiping the buddha or some other religious icon. Point blank religious people kill because of their beliefs.....atheists don't!
Human is naturally good creation, but we like to do evil and good things. But we can't forget we are from God, not Satan, and we should try live as God said in Bible - not as Satan wants. But it's impossible. The world can't be perfect when the evil exists. People will live in happyness after killing the Antichrist and Satan (and all this bad guys) by Jesus (or Archangel Gabriel lika many people say). But if your life is bad you will go to hell
Hell huh? Ok, when I was younger I believed every word of the bible. I use to cry myself to sleep wondering if I was going to die and burn in hell. I traveled around with my parents to many church and I would listen to people and their rules. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't cuss..etc. Then I would see the same people outside of church....do all the things they said not to do. And not just at one type of church but many types. Preachers pulling guns on people, decans smoking on the front steps of the church. Religion is fake...god is fake...satan is fake....there is no heaven....there is no hell...again for those of you who missed it:
RELIGION IS FOR THE WEAK MINDED WHO NEED SOMETHING TO CLING TO BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED AND WISH TO BELONG OR GOT PRESSED INTO BELIEVE BY THEIR PARENTS. MOST CHURCH USE SCARE TATICS...JOIN US OR BURN IN HELL....ITS A LIKE JOINING A CULT....WHOS BRING THE TAINTED KOOL AID????!
RELIGION IS FOR THE WEAK MINDED WHO NEED SOMETHING TO CLING TO BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED AND WISH TO BELONG OR GOT PRESSED INTO BELIEVE BY THEIR PARENTS. MOST CHURCH USE SCARE TATICS...JOIN US OR BURN IN HELL....ITS A LIKE JOINING A CULT....WHOS BRING THE TAINTED KOOL AID????!
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Hell huh? Ok, when I was younger I believed every word of the bible. I use to cry myself to sleep wondering if I was going to die and burn in hell. I traveled around with my parents to many church and I would listen to people and their rules. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't cuss..etc. Then I would see the same people outside of church....do all the things they said not to do. And not just at one type of church but many types. Preachers pulling guns on people, decans smoking on the front steps of the church. Religion is fake...god is fake...satan is fake....there is no heaven....there is no hell...again for those of you who missed it:
RELIGION IS FOR THE WEAK MINDED WHO NEED SOMETHING TO CLING TO BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED AND WISH TO BELONG OR GOT PRESSED INTO BELIEVE BY THEIR PARENTS. MOST CHURCH USE SCARE TATICS...JOIN US OR BURN IN HELL....ITS A LIKE JOINING A CULT....WHOS BRING THE TAINTED KOOL AID????! |
Damn. It's a shame that you think what you think. You don't understand anything. This world is not the most important world, it's just created to test us, our psyhic, etx. I won't explain everything, the real sense of Christian, of the suffer... I will not change your mind, but remember, you choosed wrong life way
I said I might be wrong....but until proof is given I could care less. I'm not going to live my life according to some senseless rants of uneducated jews that were obvisously crazy. The bible is just a book. I was in Books A Million the other day and guess where I saw the bible....in the Myth section....right where it should be!
| tready29483 wrote: |
| The world would be a better place if we were all just atheist with high morals. |
i don't think so...if we were atheistes we can't do anything...we can't understand what's real life...and we belive we will dead only not much...
I'm sorry that doesn't make sense sir. Please explain.
| tready29483 wrote: |
| I'm sorry that doesn't make sense sir. Please explain. |
Thats far from true. Religious people make it that way for themselves. There is way more to life than some myth about gods. We have friends, family, and many other things. I don't love my wife because the bible told me to. I love her because she is a person. Life is more than that book. Love is something to live for and give us sense. Love doesn't come from the words in that book. Love comes from inside of us. I enjoy watching my kids grow up and that gives my life a "sense" as well. Open your eyes and just enjoy life...get past the crap.
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Thats far from true. Religious people make it that way for themselves. There is way more to life than some myth about gods. We have friends, family, and many other things. I don't love my wife because the bible told me to. I love her because she is a person. Life is more than that book. Love is something to live for and give us sense. Love doesn't come from the words in that book. Love comes from inside of us. I enjoy watching my kids grow up and that gives my life a "sense" as well. Open your eyes and just enjoy life...get past the crap. |
Bible and Bible code comes from God. Love comes from God. Everything what you have was invented by God, so we just should thank God for this world... no matter what bad happens, the important thing is that ypu and me are sons of God...
No, I don't have to thank god...there is no god....love comes from my heart. Do you only love because god says to or because you truley want to? Are you nice because you are told to be? Do you not kill just because you were told not to? 
...grow a back bone and do something that you want to do. Don't just do something because a book says to. Are you mindless...do you control yourself? Are you a Jesus Robot?? WWJD my ass...how about WWYD....what would YOU do???
...grow a back bone and do something that you want to do. Don't just do something because a book says to. Are you mindless...do you control yourself? Are you a Jesus Robot?? WWJD my ass...how about WWYD....what would YOU do???| tready29483 wrote: |
| No, I don't have to thank god...there is no god....love comes from my heart. Do you only love because god says to or because you truley want to? Are you nice because you are told to be? Do you not kill just because you were told not to? ...grow a back bone and do something that you want to do. Don't just do something because a book says to. Are you mindless...do you control yourself? Are you a Jesus Robot?? WWJD my ***...how about WWYD....what would YOU do??? |
No, God doesn't want us to do what He wants. He just wants to explain us what is GOOD and what is BAD and EVIL. He wants us to see the difference between GOOD and EVIL. He just wants us not to live as Satan wants. God just wants to help us to choose the right way... the way to heaven... God is the creator of this world, if there's no God, nobody who could be an "owner" of this world, so tell me, how was the world created? By nobody? You would feel no love if God didn't give it to you. Because God loves you, even if you don't know about this, so you can love other people like God loves us.
You shouldn't always do what you want. You should do the things which are good. But if you don't know which things are good and which are evil, you have big problem.
You say that thee's no God. So tell me, who was Jesus? Nobody would survive whiping like he survived. Jesus told the truth, and I believe He was the son of God, and came to tell us to begin live good, in peace, in love, without sins
Who was Jesus you ask. Jesus was a crazy person. His own brothers thought he was crazy. I admit Jesus was a real person, but not the son of a god. Remember Hercules? His mother had a baby from a God...Zeus..a greek myth that sounds very familiar to me. The Buddha had 12 disciples like Jesus...the Buddha went into the wilderness and was tempted by an evil person....3 times....sounds like the Jesus story to me....just 500 years before Jesus.....sounds like someone heard a story and then changed it into their version....So what makes the Buddha not someone you'd worship? His story is just the same as Jesus except for a few details but over all the same. Who says the story of Buddha isn't true....you don't know....I don't know....we don;t know that any of those events took place. You don't know....you are living off blind faith....like a fool....read something else besides for bible and open your eyes....read the book called "The Power of Myth"....your eyes will open up.
I'm sure who Jesus was 
And nobody can change my thiking 
And I don't think Jesus was crazy. He's son of the God, of course. Do you know what the Bible Code is? It's a special code, added to Bible (but not contained in todays Bible book) written in hebre language (did I write it properly - "hebre" I'm not sure, tell me if I make any mistakes in english) thousands years ago. Now the best hathematics and programmers made some applicatnions to uncode some informations in this code. You can download this program - Keys to the bible, Unlocking the bible code and a few others. To uncode some good informations you just have to know how to do that, but it's not that simple Many of prophecys had happened yet. Bible Code says true. Bible Code comes from God. I know from bible code that there will be conflict between Iran and USA, and China - Russia. The thirld World War will be in 2009 or 2010 year. Just wait, you will see. Apocalypse is true too... Antichrist will come... but he will die, end it will be the end of the evil.
Damn, it's so hard to write in your language, can't you just learn Polish a bit
And nobody can change my thiking And I don't think Jesus was crazy. He's son of the God, of course. Do you know what the Bible Code is? It's a special code, added to Bible (but not contained in todays Bible book) written in hebre language (did I write it properly - "hebre" I'm not sure, tell me if I make any mistakes in english) thousands years ago. Now the best hathematics and programmers made some applicatnions to uncode some informations in this code. You can download this program - Keys to the bible, Unlocking the bible code and a few others. To uncode some good informations you just have to know how to do that, but it's not that simple Many of prophecys had happened yet. Bible Code says true. Bible Code comes from God. I know from bible code that there will be conflict between Iran and USA, and China - Russia. The thirld World War will be in 2009 or 2010 year. Just wait, you will see. Apocalypse is true too... Antichrist will come... but he will die, end it will be the end of the evil.
Damn, it's so hard to write in your language, can't you just learn Polish a bit
| tready29483 wrote: |
| I'm sorry that doesn't make sense sir. Please explain. |
i won't discuss it...It seems so childessh...
tready29483, this looks like one of those things where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to argue with you about wheither the Bible is true. And as far as my belief that I see proof, I use logic. The only thing is, my logic is different than yours. I don't consider myself to be weak minded just because I believe in God and the Bible, nor do I think that you're weak minded because you don't. I too live in the south and I don't believe because my parents, or anyone else has forced me to. I believe because I want to and I feel in my heart and mind that God is real. I'm sorry that you had bad experiences in the church that you were raised in. The did not do you right at all. You're not the only person something like that has happened to. I know several here that feel the same way you do. Each person can trace their non-belief back to not being treated correctly while they were in church.
I'm not trying to force you to believe like I do. I ask that you don't try to force me to believe the way you do. I didn't join this thread to cause hard feelings. We were asked a question. I answered it according to my beliefs. Since my posts seem to be doing just that, I'll leave this topic alone.
I hope you have a great day and know that I'll be thinking of you where ever you are.
I'm not trying to force you to believe like I do. I ask that you don't try to force me to believe the way you do. I didn't join this thread to cause hard feelings. We were asked a question. I answered it according to my beliefs. Since my posts seem to be doing just that, I'll leave this topic alone.
I hope you have a great day and know that I'll be thinking of you where ever you are.
Yes, I will agree to disagree. But I wasn't treated badly in church. I just saw the flaws in the people who supposedly were Christians. It’s all blah blah blah bullshit! You speak of our different logics. My logic is based off things that I can touch, taste, see, and hear. Anything else is just a myth. I dear you to read something else....open our minds....its not hard....i dared to do it and I'm glad everyday that I don't have to live a life that is based on lies of some book.
The only difference between Christians and non-believers is that Christians have a faith in Christ Jesus. What makes you think that just because they attend church, that everyone will magically appear perfect before you? No--people are still corrupted. All we can do is try our best and pray for forgiveness.
As for your logic. Are you saying things like UV-rays don't exist? That radiation won't affect you? Even better--math doesn't exist for you, does it? It's just a myth, since it doesn't fit your logic. Wow, what a messed up world-basing everything you know/learn soley on what you can physically perceive?
This might be touching on something Socrates taught--I'm not sure who it was--but the only thing you perceive is the likeness of the actual object. There is tree, but all we feel/taste/smell/see is the likeness of tree. This simple logic means you cannot always trust what you percieve, because there is much that the brain leaves out for us, and the fact that we can alter our perceptiveness.
As for your logic. Are you saying things like UV-rays don't exist? That radiation won't affect you? Even better--math doesn't exist for you, does it? It's just a myth, since it doesn't fit your logic. Wow, what a messed up world-basing everything you know/learn soley on what you can physically perceive?
This might be touching on something Socrates taught--I'm not sure who it was--but the only thing you perceive is the likeness of the actual object. There is tree, but all we feel/taste/smell/see is the likeness of tree. This simple logic means you cannot always trust what you percieve, because there is much that the brain leaves out for us, and the fact that we can alter our perceptiveness.
| Quote: |
| Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. |
The believers believe in a God, who can forgive their sins, if they worship Him.
In some of christian post, I have seen that, they believe all are sinners. Some have less sins, some have more. But for God, all sinners are equal, whether their sins are more or less. So it is better to worship God, than trying to inprove your morals.
| Juparis wrote: |
| All we can do is try our best and pray for forgiveness. |
In this case christians will become more inmorals than ethiests.
In the other hand, ethiest are free to pick-up good teachings from any source. We can use our common sence, to find what is wrong and what is right.
| Juparis wrote: |
| The only difference between Christians and non-believers is that Christians have a faith in Christ Jesus. What makes you think that just because they attend church, that everyone will magically appear perfect before you? No--people are still corrupted. All we can do is try our best and pray for forgiveness.
As for your logic. Are you saying things like UV-rays don't exist? That radiation won't affect you? Even better--math doesn't exist for you, does it? It's just a myth, since it doesn't fit your logic. Wow, what a messed up world-basing everything you know/learn soley on what you can physically perceive? This might be touching on something Socrates taught--I'm not sure who it was--but the only thing you perceive is the likeness of the actual object. There is tree, but all we feel/taste/smell/see is the likeness of tree. This simple logic means you cannot always trust what you percieve, because there is much that the brain leaves out for us, and the fact that we can alter our perceptiveness. |
Incorrect, science and math can prove UV-rays exist. But they still can't prove god does. Nothing can. The fact that I'm sitting here typing doesn't prove it nor does anything you or some crazy person states without physically or scientific proof. FACT!
| nam_siddharth wrote: | ||
In this case christians will become more inmorals than ethiests. In the other hand, ethiest are free to pick-up good teachings from any source. We can use our common sence, to find what is wrong and what is right. |
How is this even feasible in your mind? From a Christian perspective, all are sinners and are doomed (because it's what we deserve) unless we repent and believe. Most Christians strive to act with godliness (giving them even higher morals), but Christians are humans too. And since we all sin, while we continually act with righteousness, the only way we're really going to be saved is through God--so why not pray to him? If anything, this is giving Christians much higher morals than any atheist I've ever met, because athetists are so far from God.
You'd have to be a complete idiot to even try relying on your own commen sense to guide you to what is right/wrong. That's just a doggish ignorance you treasure to sustain your own beliefs that there is no god. Human nature is to sin--if it wasn't, we wouldn't have any murders, rapes, wars, etc. The only way to be redeemed from this is through God. So how can you say that from your own corrupted nature, you will come to know right and wrong?
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Incorrect, science and math can prove UV-rays exist. But they still can't prove god does. Nothing can. The fact that I'm sitting here typing doesn't prove it nor does anything you or some crazy person states without physically or scientific proof. FACT! |
Here's what you said before...
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Yes, I will agree to disagree. But I wasn't treated badly in church. I just saw the flaws in the people who supposedly were Christians. It’s all blah blah blah bullshit! You speak of our different logics. My logic is based off things that I can touch, taste, see, and hear. Anything else is just a myth. I dear you to read something else....open our minds....its not hard....i dared to do it and I'm glad everyday that I don't have to live a life that is based on lies of some book. |
(Oh, I forgot to mention earlier, I have already long since completed your dare by reading the Vedas and some occult books. And you dare say I'm the close-minded one?)
Hopefully you are not calling me a ignorant because I don't believe like you. Thats something like a closed-minded christian would say. Science proves touch, taste, etc. Get over yourself. You are an ignorant close minded jackass. Go pray to your sky buddy and ask him to fix your weak minded ass!
Nice lively discussion you people? Seems to me that some people are getting pretty agitated here. I agree with tready29483 in most ways, but I regret the tone that this has degenerated into.
I am quite sure that it is possible to start with a purely humanist/utilitarian viewpoint in which we regard other as being like ourselves and likely to behave like us, feel pain like us and so on. In those circumstances, simple arithmetic, logic and statistics would predict the most beneficial way for us all to behave as the way that gives the most benefit to all, because greedy behaviour will lead to unstable solutions where most everyone loses out. No I can't prove it and I don't have any references, but there is discussion of the evolution of altruistic behaviour in many evolutionist books (or propaganda, if you prefer).
It's just that most people can't see past their own greed and grasp the simple basic rules of maths and logic. From that perspective, people need something like religion to tell them to behave a certain way "because the good book (pick any one, I don't care which) tells them to".
So don't claim that it is impossible to devise good ethics and morals from first principles - it is a lot more difficult, probably a lifetime's work. Don't claim that life has no meaning without religion. Religion oftentimes is just the same distilled wisdom wrapped in some paranormal mumbo-jumbo to avoid having to justify/explain it to the masses.
I am quite sure that it is possible to start with a purely humanist/utilitarian viewpoint in which we regard other as being like ourselves and likely to behave like us, feel pain like us and so on. In those circumstances, simple arithmetic, logic and statistics would predict the most beneficial way for us all to behave as the way that gives the most benefit to all, because greedy behaviour will lead to unstable solutions where most everyone loses out. No I can't prove it and I don't have any references, but there is discussion of the evolution of altruistic behaviour in many evolutionist books (or propaganda, if you prefer).
It's just that most people can't see past their own greed and grasp the simple basic rules of maths and logic. From that perspective, people need something like religion to tell them to behave a certain way "because the good book (pick any one, I don't care which) tells them to".
So don't claim that it is impossible to devise good ethics and morals from first principles - it is a lot more difficult, probably a lifetime's work. Don't claim that life has no meaning without religion. Religion oftentimes is just the same distilled wisdom wrapped in some paranormal mumbo-jumbo to avoid having to justify/explain it to the masses.
Well said Make_Life_Better. End of discussion! 
| tready29483 wrote: |
| Hopefully you are not calling me a ignorant because I don't believe like you. Thats something like a closed-minded christian would say. Science proves touch, taste, etc. Get over yourself. You are an ignorant close minded jackass. Go pray to your sky buddy and ask him to fix your weak minded ***! |
Indeed I am calling you ignorant, but not because we don't share the same beliefs. I could have well agreed with many of your points had you composed yourself in a better manner. But because you degrade yourself and the entire discussion to such a low level, I felt it necessary to try, at least, to show you some of your contradicting points. Yet still you are too blissfully ignorant to see them, and thus I realize my post was in vain.. I shall never retract my comment, however, for as long as you maintain such a childish tone.
| make_life_better wrote: |
| I am quite sure that it is possible to start with a purely humanist/utilitarian viewpoint in which we regard other as being like ourselves and likely to behave like us, feel pain like us and so on. In those circumstances, simple arithmetic, logic and statistics would predict the most beneficial way for us all to behave as the way that gives the most benefit to all, because greedy behaviour will lead to unstable solutions where most everyone loses out. No I can't prove it and I don't have any references, but there is discussion of the evolution of altruistic behaviour in many evolutionist books (or propaganda, if you prefer). |
I completely agree with you, make_life_better. I was simply stating before that religion is where it all started. Had it started the other way around, I'm sure we wouldn't need religion, but I think you touched that later in your post. I would have loved to reach this same point with tready29483, but as you can tell, it wasn't exactly an open-minded discussion.
| Quote: |
| So don't claim that it is impossible to devise good ethics and morals from first principles - it is a lot more difficult, probably a lifetime's work. Don't claim that life has no meaning without religion. Religion oftentimes is just the same distilled wisdom wrapped in some paranormal mumbo-jumbo to avoid having to justify/explain it to the masses. |
I never claimed it was impossible, did I? If so, it was never my intent to. Although if I didn't, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't twist my words in the future.
Religion? Some, I'm not sure about most, is bogus.. But what if one of them is true? Especially a Christian religion - can you really afford to miss out? It's a covering-all-bases tactic. That, and I think religion is one of the last good places for our children to grow in this world. The rest of it is in too much chaos and indulging in their corruption. I wouldn't want my child growing up under today's influences.
There will never be a perfect world, and people should just concentrate on making better, what they already have to work with. To idealize something in its entirety to an unrealistic extreme is a counterproductive activity. We should be tackling things a little at a time, making better what we can. It is almost a waste of energy to envision what would make the perfect world, as such speculation is very subjective.
| Juparis wrote: |
| You'd have to be a complete idiot to even try relying on your own commen sense to guide you to what is right/wrong. |
You mean, christians are too stupid to rely on there own common sense. It may be right for christians if you think so. But it is not for others.
| Juparis wrote: |
| Human nature is to sin--if it wasn't, we wouldn't have any murders, rapes, wars, etc. |
Religions are currupting human nature. They murder, rape, make wars, because they know, they can be forgived by God, if they pray.
| Juparis wrote: |
| The only way to be redeemed from this is through God. |
How can we rely on that evil master, who forgives sin of sinners, only because one prays Him.
How can we rely on that inferfect creater, who created such a inperfect world, where people are allowed to murder, rape, make wars.
| Juparis wrote: |
| So how can you say that from your own corrupted nature, you will come to know right and wrong? |
God created humans from his own image(a christian believe). When His image is too much currupted, I wonder, how currupt God himself will be.
| nam_siddharth wrote: | ||||||||
You mean, christians are too stupid to rely on there own common sense. It may be right for christians if you think so. But it is not for others.
Religions are currupting human nature. They murder, rape, make wars, because they know, they can be forgived by God, if they pray.
How can we rely on that evil master, who forgives sin of sinners, only because one prays Him. How can we rely on that inferfect creater, who created such a inperfect world, where people are allowed to murder, rape, make wars.
God created humans from his own image(a christian believe). When His image is too much currupted, I wonder, how currupt God himself will be. |
all great points!
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
| You mean, christians are too stupid to rely on there own common sense. It may be right for christians if you think so. But it is not for others. |
Obviously that is not what I meant at all. You are too blinded by your own pride to even consider what I'm trying to say. Your own common sense is based on what you've picked up around you. Thankfully our environment today is still religiously based, meaning you can get all the good teachings (morals) without even being religious.
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
| Religions are currupting human nature. They murder, rape, make wars, because they know, they can be forgived by God, if they pray. |
Cite me some statistics, if you would. Do you have any proof whatsoever to back you up? I'm willing to bet that any respectable survey taken would show more atheist rapist/muderers than Christians. Why would anyone sin just because they know they'll be forgiven? That's more childish ignorance, which I'd ask you stop using. Are you going to cheat on your mathematics test just because you know you can retake it? Are you going to steal from someone just because you know you can't stay in jail forever? I highly doubt it. You seem to know nothing about Christianity.
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
| How can we rely on that evil master, who forgives sin of sinners, only because one prays Him.
How can we rely on that inferfect creater, who created such a inperfect world, where people are allowed to murder, rape, make wars. |
"Evil master"? No, Lucifer is the only true "evil master." It is his works that even make you say that God is the true evil master.
God created the perfect world, giving everyone free will. If he didn't we'd be mindless robots roaming the eath. Surely you'd have much more fun playing SIMs that moving a few pebbles to whatever spots you want (since they'd be unable to resist). So for whatever reason, we have free will. It was humans that brought sin into this world; that corrupted God's land; that continues to defille the earth, justifying it with their own greedy desires to prevail. By your logic, if the teacher makes a test, and you get a few questions wrong, it is the teacher's fault that anyone should get any question wrong. Again, what childish logic. Stop blaming others and accept responsibility for once. (general statement; this is what I've inferred from your posts.. If it's not true, I suggest revision/consideration)
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
|
God created humans from his own image(a christian believe). When His image is too much currupted, I wonder, how currupt God himself will be. |
You said it yourself: God created humans in his own image. That doesn't mean that we are still in His image. Nor does it in any way suggest that the more we become corrupted, the more He does as well. That's like saying, "I took this picture of you. Now, when I paint it red, you too will turn red, because I painted the picture red."
@tready29483
Do you have anything more to write, other than acknowledging what others have already said? If you cannot form your own opinions, or cannot type out your own beliefs, why even bother remain a part of this discussion? It's so childish, and I feel it's degrading the conversation every time you post. Could you at least act to be mature?
@dyrtyrice
For the general population of the world, I think that would be an efficient method. But who would listen? It only encourages the spread of people's already-overgrown vanity. People may become too satisfied with reaching a lower level of morality when we should all be constantly striving to be perfect. Even if it is just a dream, we always do our best. Are you going to tell a failing student, "Just get a D on the next quiz, and all will be well," or would you tell him to study enough to get an A? Are you going to tell a murderer, "next time, just cut the person's throat. We'll work up from there."? Progressing in steps seems like a good idea for the non-religious, however it would only create just as many problems as it solves. I would rather dream the impossible than to find myself satisfied with the mediocre. But I guess that's just one tired guy's opinion.
| Juparis wrote: |
| Why would anyone sin just because they know they'll be forgiven? That's more childish ignorance, which I'd ask you stop using. Are you going to cheat on your mathematics test just because you know you can retake it? Are you going to steal from someone just because you know you can't stay in jail forever? I highly doubt it. You seem to know nothing about Christianity. |
If a rapist will be forgived for his sin of rape, it will only encourage him to do more rape.
The relation of God and his followers is like relaions of a gang master and his man. A criminal of his team is always right.
You say, God create everything. Then sins are also created by God. Thus God is most sinnful person.
He also created earth-quakes and storms, which kill inoccent people.
Hit God with boots, if He exist.
| nam_siddharth wrote: |
| If a rapist will be forgived for his sin of rape, it will only encourage him to do more rape.
The relation of God and his followers is like relaions of a gang master and his man. A criminal of his team is always right. You say, God create everything. Then sins are also created by God. Thus God is most sinnful person. He also created earth-quakes and storms, which kill inoccent people. Hit God with boots, if He exist. |
I realize that I stated I would not post no more here, but since I'm not replying to tready29483, I hope you will forgive me, but I had to reply to this comment.
Hebrews 10:26,27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
According to these scriptures, if we sin, knowing that we are doing wrong, we won't be forgiven for our sins. Therefore, it makes no sense for a man to keep raping if he knows that he will be punished for his sins. Just because we are Christians, we do not have the right to do what we want, when we want. There are consequences for our actions, some may not be realized until we die, but we will have to face our actions!
God did not create sin, but He did let it happen. When Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden, everything was perfect. There was no sin there. They had the perfect relationship with God. He gave them one rule, do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve let herself be talked into disobeying that rule and they were kicked out of Eden. The Earth as well as man has been paying the punishment for that disobedience ever since.
Last edited by livilou on Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
| livilou wrote: |
| God did not create sin, but He did let it happen. |
Who created sin, if the creator of all "God" did not? Why He let sin happen? Why he created that evil fruit?
Who created the heaven? Before creation of heaven, where God was living? Where the heaven is?
It is a paradox, created by religion, isn't it?
| livilou wrote: |
| According to these scriptures, if we sin, knowing that we are doing wrong, we won't be forgiven for our sins. Therefore, it makes no sense for a man to keep raping if he knows that he will be punished for his sins. Just because we are Christians, we do not have the right to do what we want, when we want. There are consequences for our actions, some may not be realized until we die, but we will have to face our actions! |
Sins are always sins, whether realised by the sinner or not. Terrorist of some religious group are killing people of another religious group. They think that it is religious to act this way. Should their sins be forgived, because they not know, what they are doing is wrong.
Any way, thanks for your cool reply, and not calling names like Juparis.
Human mind created sins and in my opinion, god did not create us. In fact, he does not even know we exist because god is perfect hence it (as god does NOT have a gender) cannot know inperfection and as we all know, we are not perfect.
"Calling names like Juparis": LMAO--are we still in 6th grade here, or what? Hah, I am no more degrading than tready or yourself, "Siddarth." I'm playing with the cards you give me. If you wish for a more respectful debate, I suggest your start acting so..
Concerning sin:
Sin was "created" by Lucifer, not God. God allowed this to happen by giving angels and humans free will. Would it be better that a hundred children love you because they choose to, or that a thousand robots "love" you only because you programmed them to do so? The answer is obvious, for most.
Your "paradox":
God created the heavens. If you had read just the first few sentances in the Bible you would know that. Before heaven, God simply was. Living is a temporary action that we commit--God is eternal, and is thus exempt (althought this is varied by opinion). Religion doesn't create a paradox; humans looking for commotion do, and in senseless manners, too.
More on this supposedly-evil God:
You stated earlier that God created earthquakes and storms, which is true. However, nobody is innocent, and all deserve to die. It is by his grace that any of us are even alive today. You're using your own judgements and opinions to decide who is innocent. In addition, deaths are not always sad occasions, but we make them out to be only because we are so selfish and covet the lost person's presence. What vanity we indulge ourselves in.
Concerning sin:
Sin was "created" by Lucifer, not God. God allowed this to happen by giving angels and humans free will. Would it be better that a hundred children love you because they choose to, or that a thousand robots "love" you only because you programmed them to do so? The answer is obvious, for most.
Your "paradox":
God created the heavens. If you had read just the first few sentances in the Bible you would know that. Before heaven, God simply was. Living is a temporary action that we commit--God is eternal, and is thus exempt (althought this is varied by opinion). Religion doesn't create a paradox; humans looking for commotion do, and in senseless manners, too.
More on this supposedly-evil God:
You stated earlier that God created earthquakes and storms, which is true. However, nobody is innocent, and all deserve to die. It is by his grace that any of us are even alive today. You're using your own judgements and opinions to decide who is innocent. In addition, deaths are not always sad occasions, but we make them out to be only because we are so selfish and covet the lost person's presence. What vanity we indulge ourselves in.
| Juparis wrote: |
|
Concerning sin: Sin was "created" by Lucifer, not God. God allowed this to happen by giving angels and humans free will. |
What about John 1:1-3
| NIV wrote: |
|
"In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were madel without him nothing was made that has been made." |
| Juparis wrote: |
|
In addition, deaths are not always sad occasions, but we make them out to be only because we are so selfish and covet the lost person's presence. What vanity we indulge ourselves in. |
So hows to decide which deaths are sad occasions, and which aren't? Was Jesus indulging himself in vanity when he wept over the death of his friend Lazarus?(John 11:1-45)
a_dub:
Just because you buy an apple, does that mean you're the one that makes it rot? Of course not (unless you got some secret method?).
God created free will. Rebellion (which led to sin) is an action, which was available because of free will. You seem to be caught up in sin as an object of some sort. Rather, sin is an action, but we often refer to the consequences of the action as sin. God gave us the ability to do whatever we want--simple as that. Sin was brought into this world by humans. That's the bottom line.
On your second point..
Mourning a person's departure from this world is completely separate from covetting the person's body/soul in this world. We can miss people; that's just natural. What I meant was that most funerals today focus too much on the sadness of the person's departure, rather than rejoicing in their return to our Father's home in heaven, which awaits us all. This isn't always the case, but usually is, even among some Christian funerals.
Just because you buy an apple, does that mean you're the one that makes it rot? Of course not (unless you got some secret method?)
.
God created free will. Rebellion (which led to sin) is an action, which was available because of free will. You seem to be caught up in sin as an object of some sort. Rather, sin is an action, but we often refer to the consequences of the action as sin. God gave us the ability to do whatever we want--simple as that. Sin was brought into this world by humans. That's the bottom line.
On your second point..
Mourning a person's departure from this world is completely separate from covetting the person's body/soul in this world. We can miss people; that's just natural. What I meant was that most funerals today focus too much on the sadness of the person's departure, rather than rejoicing in their return to our Father's home in heaven, which awaits us all. This isn't always the case, but usually is, even among some Christian funerals.
I think that the abolishment of religion is a pretty good way to make the world a better place.
| Juparis wrote: |
| On your second point..
Mourning a person's departure from this world is completely separate from covetting the person's body/soul in this world. We can miss people; that's just natural. What I meant was that most funerals today focus too much on the sadness of the person's departure, rather than rejoicing in their return to our Father's home in heaven, which awaits us all. This isn't always the case, but usually is, even among some Christian funerals. |
Thanks for clearing that up, that makes alot more sense with that explanation.
| Juparis wrote: |
|
a_dub: Just because you buy an apple, does that mean you're the one that makes it rot? Of course not (unless you got some secret method?) .
God created free will. Rebellion (which led to sin) is an action, which was available because of free will. You seem to be caught up in sin as an object of some sort. Rather, sin is an action, but we often refer to the consequences of the action as sin. God gave us the ability to do whatever we want--simple as that. Sin was brought into this world by humans. That's the bottom line. |
Freewill is a good response to the problem of evil. I defintly understand what you're saying about sin. I generally roll with the Sin as a disease (we are all seperate from God) and sin (the consequences) as the symptoms of that disease.
Lets say I'm a car maker. I make a car that runs on polution, and has no negative emissions. It has the ability to save the ecosystem, and can be sold for one dollar. Great invention. However, if someone turns without signaling, the car instantly explodes, killing whoever is in the car, and within a 100 yard radius, and for whatever reason, thats the only way this life saving car can operate. If someone forgets to signal a turn into the elementary school to drop off their kids, therefor killing thier kids, but also everyone else in the school. Think I could get off with just saying, hey, they knew. Just because my car has a flaw, its not my fault.
Personally, I don't know why God allows horrible things to happen. But I know what my response should be. Join with God to love those involved to bring the situation back to him.
God bless bro
I'm glad I could clear up some points.
I agree that God's ways are very mysterious, but I think as time goes on, we are simply seeing less and less of his presence. Eventually it'll be total chaos, and once Christians are persecuted again (at least, this is what I've been told), then Judgement Day will arrive. From the looks of things, I'm pretty sure I'm not being persecuted, and hopefully neither are you. Even though we live in a sinful world, I think the Last Day is still pretty far off..
So, for whatever reason that these things happen, I'll be with you, praying for others that they would find God before it's too late.
I agree that God's ways are very mysterious, but I think as time goes on, we are simply seeing less and less of his presence. Eventually it'll be total chaos, and once Christians are persecuted again (at least, this is what I've been told), then Judgement Day will arrive. From the looks of things, I'm pretty sure I'm not being persecuted, and hopefully neither are you.
Even though we live in a sinful world, I think the Last Day is still pretty far off..
So, for whatever reason that these things happen, I'll be with you, praying for others that they would find God before it's too late.
| Juparis wrote: |
| Judgement Day |
Basically, the sun explodes. We'll never see it though, we'll be dead five minutes before the light reaches Earth.
| Marston wrote: |
| Basically, the sun explodes. We'll never see it though, we'll be dead five minutes before the light reaches Earth. |
Well that pretty much sucks, that seems like it would be one awesome last thing to see. Did the scientist say what part of that would actually kill us? Would it be like boiling from the massive heat release or the pure pressure of an expolsion of that matter that we'd implode? I'm not sure which would be worse. I guess whichever one is faster.
I'm pretty sure that that humans would go extinct long before the sun explodes..
...and that Judgement Day would come long before we're able to destory ourselves (or maybe even the day of?). But I can see you don't believe in that, so I'll cut that out for now...
There is too much chaos, too much war, too many weapons that could kill everyone within minutes. There's no way (imo) that the human population would live long enough to be destroyed by the sun.
But now I'm curious; I was always taught (or rather, I read some interesting theories) that the speed of light is a physical speed barrier. How could the explosion travel faster than light? It's an interesting prospect..
...and that Judgement Day would come long before we're able to destory ourselves (or maybe even the day of?). But I can see you don't believe in that, so I'll cut that out for now...
There is too much chaos, too much war, too many weapons that could kill everyone within minutes. There's no way (imo) that the human population would live long enough to be destroyed by the sun.
But now I'm curious; I was always taught (or rather, I read some interesting theories) that the speed of light is a physical speed barrier. How could the explosion travel faster than light? It's an interesting prospect..
It takes like 5-8 seconds for light from the sun to reach Earth (it's a known fact - taught in schools, etc.). Therefore, let's say that hypothetically, the Sun explodes tommorow morning at 6:00 AM GMT. We wouldn't see the explosion until 6:00:05 AM GMT. The explosion would be instantaneous, and would obliterate everything in our solar system.
I dunno what you mean by physical speed barrier, though.
I dunno what you mean by physical speed barrier, though.
Light speed is the Universe's speed limit. Nothing has ever been observed going faster than the speed of light. Including energy, even gravity. If the sun were to explode, we would experience it at exactly the same time as the light from the explosion reaches earth.
to go back to the discussion, I think we are mixing up terms here.
1) religion does not equal Christianity
2) atheism is not a religion... its a belief, or absence of belief
To have a better world, we need to respect each other's beliefs. Because, in fact, no one knows! No one really knows if there is a God or not. You can choose to beleive or not. The point is, we should respect each other's belief. Believing in one thing does not make you any better than someone who believes another... its just stupid to think that.
to go back to the discussion, I think we are mixing up terms here.
1) religion does not equal Christianity
2) atheism is not a religion... its a belief, or absence of belief
To have a better world, we need to respect each other's beliefs. Because, in fact, no one knows! No one really knows if there is a God or not. You can choose to beleive or not. The point is, we should respect each other's belief. Believing in one thing does not make you any better than someone who believes another... its just stupid to think that.
| NemoySpruce wrote: |
| Light speed is the Universe's speed limit. Nothing has ever been observed going faster than the speed of light. Including energy, even gravity. If the sun were to explode, we would experience it at exactly the same time as the light from the explosion reaches earth. |
I'm not so sure about that.| Marston wrote: |
| I'm not so sure about that. |
Well its true...at least for now anyways. read here.
Unless your telling me your from the future or something, and youve solved Cochrans equation in which case I apologize.
| adiutrix wrote: |
| Human mind created sins and in my opinion, god did not create us. In fact, he does not even know we exist because god is perfect hence it (as god does NOT have a gender) cannot know inperfection and as we all know, we are not perfect. |
I'm intigued, care to share more?
| NemoySpruce wrote: |
| To have a better world, we need to respect each other's beliefs. Because, in fact, no one knows! No one really knows if there is a God or not. You can choose to beleive or not. The point is, we should respect each other's belief. Believing in one thing does not make you any better than someone who believes another... its just stupid to think that. |
Wow; I think this is what I was trying to allude to in some strange way, but didn't know how to put it into words. It's true though. If we could all just have a little respect for eachother, the world would be so much better for us all. (I'd hope we would be able to respect eachother on the road as well! I'm getting tired of this road-rage in America)
| adiutrix wrote: |
| Human mind created sins and in my opinion, god did not create us. In fact, he does not even know we exist because god is perfect hence it (as god does NOT have a gender) cannot know inperfection and as we all know, we are not perfect. |
I forgot to reply to this..
I agree that the human mind created sin, but it is because of that that makes me believe God created humans. If we created sin, then at one time there was no sin, in which we were perfect. Since we were once perfect, it's logical to assume that God had the power to create us (I just go the extra step and say that he really did). There are passages (sorry, I simply don't remember the references) state that Jesus acts like holy robes for us. He's the holy robes we wear every time we repent, so that God can still see us (as holy).
That's my point of view, anyway... (sorry, a_dub, since you never asked for my viewpoint)
| Marston wrote: |
| I think that the abolishment of religion is a pretty good way to make the world a better place. |
Which religion do you mean? All religion or just a select few. Some religions are trying to be gotten rid of, at least I think so. The government is trying it's best to tell me where I can and cannot pray. More people get offended if I state I'm a Christian. They state I'm crazy, silly or just too stupid to know my own mind.
I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinions, but in the same turn, I hope you don't expect me to agree with your opinions.
I'm going back a few post on this one. What is ignorance? Being unlearned on a subject. Some people are ignorant. On some things, I'm one of them. When it comes to PHP, definitely. Not because I choose to be, but because for some reason I can't get my mind to wrap around it. On some religions, I'm ignorant. I don't know their beliefs. Just because I don't know or understand them, doesn't mean that I will say they are wrong. I don't know. I've never studied them. Some people will pray 3 or more times a day, everyday, no matter what is going on. Do I think it's a waste of time, or that they are stupid for doing this? No, actually I don't. I think they are very dedicated to their beliefs. I applaud them for being that dedicated. If only most Christians were as dedicated to our beliefs. Some people, I think, like to get offended. It makes them feel as if they have a superior moral high ground. People don't have to agree, but they don't have to be disagreeable either.
| NemoySpruce wrote: |
| To have a better world, we need to respect each other's beliefs. Because, in fact, no one knows! No one really knows if there is a God or not. You can choose to beleive or not. The point is, we should respect each other's belief. Believing in one thing does not make you any better than someone who believes another... its just stupid to think that. |
I wish I had stated this as well as you have. I too was trying to say that, only I just wasn't saying it as well as you did. Congrates for hitting the nail on the head. If only some people could be that way, this world would be so much better.
| Juparis wrote: |
| High morals come from religion. Atheists copy these high morals because they're part of the social code now, not because they randomly decided to be nice. That's my opinion, anyway. (Subconscious thinking) |
This is my opinion too...
Atheists copy these high morals because they're part of the social code now, not because they randomly decided to be nice.
 |