Wondering if anyone has looked into renewable enegery?
I have done some reading on solar, wind and hydro and it is all interesting but not to the capacity that it makes financial sense/cents?
I was also thinking of using a river flow generation for some 'path lighting' since it is usually lower power requirements but still adds up. Maybe some LED Christmas lights well spaced LOL.
would you be able to take a car generator and add some fins and an inverter to make this work?
Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out.
| Marston wrote: |
| Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
well it will take hundreds of thousands of years for the sun to go out. Sun is eating up itself. But its here to stay for a very very very long time. so do not worry and it is still treated as a renewable source of energy globally.What your talking about is using energy to make energy which by one of those energy laws
you can only transform energy and you cannot get back more than what you put in
and you wont always get back what you put in so as the process goes on your still using energy and my become an innefficient way to make reusable energy.
If you use the sun you wont have enough power and would be better off finding new ways to coat the solar panels to protect them from getting scratched
I have done some research into the field of renewable energy, and in most cases, Defwh is indeed correct. Solar panels are expensive and produce a relatively small amount of energy as compared to their price. However, in certain circumstances, when coupled with sun-followers (a machine that keeps the solar panel pointed at the sun) they can be long-term (at least 10-12 years) cost-effective.
Of more use usually are wind turbines, especially in areas that (obviously) get a lot of wind. These can generate a good energy output for a lower price than the solar panels, though they may be somewhat less reliable: they aren't solid-state, and moving parts always need maintainence; and there is not always wind, while the sun does rise everyday, and solar cells do give partial output on cloudy days.
But as schumway has just pointed out wind turbines, you should also factor in pollution which thins are atmosphere and when its gone earth could become a a desolate place with very high temperatures and no wind would occur but the main reason for not using mass amounts of wind turbine power is that they need maintainance and only create a limited amount of power and arent as reliable as solar panels.
If we were to place solor panels in places like alaska, anartica and near the equator we could guarantee power and those places unlike the desert would be less harmful to the panels since the air does not contain as much silica, sand, and industrial metals.
This would be highly probable in the next 20 - 30 years because just like most things politics factor in and the power station would most likely be a group effort and take months for all the allegations of private power plants to take a stand against such a threat.
Maybe we need another president like TR so we can get things done without the politics and use that "big stick diplomacy" against the damn corporates who hate the idea of centralization and no competition.
I think a lot of hand held items , phones ,ipods, torches ect, anything with a low power usage should have to include the "Windup" technology where possible.
As a side note....... I wonder if anyone has information on how much power it is possible for a human to generate using just muscle power alone ?
Wind and Solar power have a ton of potential. If you're questioning either, just look at the free market. Windmill 'farms' are being built by several major players in the energy business across the US and around the world. And remember, companies don't do stuff that doesn't make money.
Solar cell technology is still on its way up -- meaning efficiency is continually improving and prices are coming way down. There are even photo-voltaic 'shingles' in the works for your house. In a few years Californians won't even need their $7000 tax break to justify installing them -- they're initial costs to savings will justify themselves within the next two to three years.
Enjoy, the future will be here as soon as the politicians get out of the way.
| tumbleweed wrote: |
| I think a lot of hand held items , phones ,ipods, torches ect, anything with a low power usage should have to include the "Windup" technology where possible. |
A young boy invented a hampster wheel that charges your mobile. In my area, a man has installed a small wind turbine to power his heating. Aparently, if we covered Australia in solar panels, we would generate plenty of electricity. Problem solved!
Just a thought, if we could 'trap' the energy from lightning, we would be able to power the world for three years. | smartbei wrote: |
| Of more use usually are wind turbines, especially in areas that (obviously) get a lot of wind. These can generate a good energy output for a lower price than the solar panels, though they may be somewhat less reliable: they aren't solid-state, and moving parts always need maintainence; and there is not always wind, while the sun does rise everyday, and solar cells do give partial output on cloudy days. |
Actually, wind is produced by heat differences and pressure differences in the atmosphere due to ??? The SUN !!!!
Actually the problem with wind turbines is that with very slow winds and very fast winds the wind turbine has to be shutdown... When it's the case, it means that the electricity that would usually be produced has to be produced somewhere else. For that you need a power plant that can start up quite fast (since wind turbines can shut without notice). There are few possibilities but one is to use very large diesel engines which aren't very "sustainable".
Denmark is known for being the country with the most wind turbines... It is however the european country that emits the MOST green house gases... Why ? Because it uses coal furnaces as another source of power...There are other solutions... Tide power, geothermal power or dams that could very be the future : OTEC Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion.
But there's no way to beat our energy consommption with these kinds of solutions... The only possibility is to find a solution to nuclear waste and/or enable the use of the fusion process (as opposed to nuclear fission!)...
Anyway... my 2 cents
the folks in France can use spent fuel rods to even deplete them more making them more safe. We just have not invested in that technology in NA yet.
alternative energy will not likely be viable until the cost of fossel fuels makes it so.
we all like to talk about the environment but we are also usually the first to complain about the cost of gas going up 1-2 cents (um... what is that 50 cents a tank to go with the $1.75 coffee?) and when presented with the option of the earth vs money in our pockets... we typically take the easy cheap way.
| Marston wrote: |
| Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
Technically then there is no such thing as renewable energy. There is a limited amount of energy in the universe and it is going from a more concentrated source (sun) to a lower one (background heat), sorta like diffusion. We're just in the middle of it. So once all the energy is evenly distributed in the universe, we won;t be able to reuse any of it.
Anyway, to stay on the topic, there's a really swet source of energy that I read about way back when. It's called thermal depolarization. You can read up on it at http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
I thought it was a really sweet idea. Couldn't really see many flaws about it. Tell me what you think | Marston wrote: |
| Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
In that sense no energy is renewable. Due to entropy the universe will eventually become entirely homogeneous and no energy processes will occur. | schumway wrote: |
Wondering if anyone has looked into renewable enegery?
I have done some reading on solar, wind and hydro and it is all interesting but not to the capacity that it makes financial sense/cents?
|
It`ll certaily make sense as the oil price will rise steadily. The problem is, that there should be already a solution before there is no oil left... So I think it's a nice idea if the government supports renewable energies by giving them financial advantages! That's happening in many european countries.hi
I just wanted to respond to the first message.
Concerning the path lighting there si smart solar lamp. On top there is photovoltaic cells link to a little battery and to a light.
During the day the battery is fullen. And as soon as the sells don't receive sunlight anymore the light is actived.
The good thing is that you don't need cabling or anything else. You just put it where you want. It this way it is cost effective.
On the topic of renewable energy, i've heard that there's a project to build a energy sustainable plane that will fly around the world without using non-renewable energy.
Basically, they built a plane of less than two tons, with the wing span of a Airbus A380, loaded with solar panels and batteries. During the day, they reserve energy in their batteries and by gaining a maximum altitude. During the night they just "glide".
Just a little information !
there are loads of alternative renewable energy projects that sound a bit wierd but are really good ideas.
in germany they place water pipes under tarmac roads, as the roads heat up the houses use the water to keep the houses warm, sounds crazy but it must work.
some one said that the sun always rises but its not always windy. Maybe you dont live in the UK?
Here 52% of the days are at least overcast (i.e. not sunny) and we are the windiest country in europe, but we dont normally experience extremely (i.e tornado) high winds. The UK is infact the perfect place for wind power. Unfortunatly unlike the US we do not have vast tracts of land on which to put land farms, and people who live in the country (normally those who drive 4 litre land-rovers) have adopted a "not in my backyard" approach to wind farms. Fair enough, but i always think that it's better than a nuclear power station, which end up in the backyards of the poor, who need the jobs. besides, i think wind farms are rather beautiful
| Marston wrote: |
| Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
technically there is no renewable energy. wind will die when the Sun dies and every thermonuclear process which could be used for a fission or fusion reactor would eventually die. 'Renewable' is used to define any process which lasts for a really long time. As for myself, I am very interested in the prospect of large-scale fusion reactors. Fusion reactions which would be used in such a reactor do not include unstable isotopes of uranium so they would be much safer if something went wrong. Fusion would also yield much more energy than traditional fission nuclear plants. The only two reasons we don't use it is...
1. stable fusion reactions are hard to start.
2. there arent any countries funding it.
and if #2 were solved, i dont think #1 would be an issue. | Quote: |
The only two reasons we don't use it is...
1. stable fusion reactions are hard to start.
2. there arent any countries funding it.
and if #2 were solved, i dont think #1 would be an issue. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5012638.stm
you should probably check this out.
10billion € seems like alot of money to me...[/url]Of course your question is wrong on the spot. Energy is conserved whatsoever.
Renewable energy is energy that can be created in special process like burning rubble with energy extraction.
A small process:
all household rubbish and rubbish that can be collected in container parks can be shreddered and then heat up so all the liquids will evaporates so that only a residu will remain.
That residu can be sold to factory's that can used it for heating up there installations for smelting and for other possibilities.
Maybe for using it in the installations where creating energy was used with gas and fuels.
Everthing is possible.
I am studying biomass as a renewable energy source for my work in graduate school. I think it has a lot of potential, especially in the area of transportation fuel. With the right process, ethanol can be made from left over agricultural wastes, etc and be used as an additive or replacement to gasoline.
I agree with the solar energy comments that it is not very economical. It is appropriate in some applications where a constant reliable energy source isn't needed, like ourdoor lighting.
I've heard of a different alternative, which seems quite possible if you can store hydrogen in a big tanker (no risk for the environnement if sunk) :
OTEC or Ocean thermal energy conversion :
From http://www.nrel.gov/otec/
| Quote: |
What is Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion?
The oceans cover a little more than 70 percent of the Earth's surface. This makes them the world's largest solar energy collector and energy storage system. On an average day, 60 million square kilometers (23 million square miles) of tropical seas absorb an amount of solar radiation equal in heat content to about 250 billion barrels of oil. If less than one-tenth of one percent of this stored solar energy could be converted into electric power, it would supply more than 20 times the total amount of electricity consumed in the United States on any given day.
Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion: An Overview is the primary source document used to create the content on this web site.
OTEC, or ocean thermal energy conversion, is an energy technology that converts solar radiation to electric power. OTEC systems use the ocean's natural thermal gradient—the fact that the ocean's layers of water have different temperatures—to drive a power-producing cycle. As long as the temperature between the warm surface water and the cold deep water differs by about 20°C (36°F), an OTEC system can produce a significant amount of power. The oceans are thus a vast renewable resource, with the potential to help us produce billions of watts of electric power. This potential is estimated to be about 1013 watts of baseload power generation, according to some experts. The cold, deep seawater used in the OTEC process is also rich in nutrients, and it can be used to culture both marine organisms and plant life near the shore or on land.
Ocean's Thermal Gradient Map
The economics of energy production today have delayed the financing of a permanent, continuously operating OTEC plant. However, OTEC is very promising as an alternative energy resource for tropical island communities that rely heavily on imported fuel. OTEC plants in these markets could provide islanders with much-needed power, as well as desalinated water and a variety of mariculture products.
|
Well if you have not looked at your Canadian Tire Flier recently the Canadian hardware giant has branched out and is now offering both Solar and Wind Power solutions for your home.
While it is at a break even point in about 2 years time for most homes, the great thing is that Ontario Power Generation and most other utility companies in Canada are now paying for your excess power generated.
While the world of solar and wind farms may be a long way off, if we all converted even our hotwater tanks to even partial supply from a solar water heater, we would save a substantial amount of money and put a massive amount of energy back into the grid.
Just a question, do you think solar panels are very efficient in Canada ? You need the most energy during the winter, and it's at that time that the day doesn't last more than eight hours a day....
ya but when the sun does what ever it is going to do... it will likely not just fizzle out... it will likely super nova or blow up in general. So as long as we can find a way to capture that energy it should be about 80x the total energy it gave off in it's life span so in theory that would be another 80 billion years or more that we could live off the energy...
assuming we have some really kewl solar blankets to protect us from the blast.
I once did some calcs to see how how much water you would have to cycle daily to make a mini hydro pumped storage feasable for an individual.
The basic conclusions were:
- for every 10acre-ft of water we should make $400 a year net profit.
- it would take 62acre-ft to provide average daily electric and heating.
- 10acre-ft are need to supply everything except heating.
- every 25acre-ft would provide $1000 a year net profit (scalable)
Why are we talking about rebnewable energy failing when the sun goes out? Lets be practical here... we aren't going to need it then are we? 
Remember the food webs and chanins that you did in school. The sun provides the energy needed for plants to photosynthesise. Without it they could not exist. The plants provide the energy for primary consumers to live on - creatures such as rabbits and cows, as well as many insects. These primary consumers are eaten by tertiary consumers, providing their energy... and in turn, the top predators, including man, tigers and hawks, will feed on creatures to obtain their energy. Take away the sun... and the web is broken... a lack of renewable energy would be the last problem on our minds... I don't think any form of energy is 100% reusable. I don't think solor energy is very efficient when looking at short term. I had read somewhere that you need to use solor panels for more than 15 years if you want them to be truely efficient. As of now, they're just too expansive. 
| DeFwh wrote: |
| Maybe we need another president like TR so we can get things done without the politics and use that "big stick diplomacy" against the damn corporates who hate the idea of centralization and no competition. |
Companies love the idea of centralization and no competition as long as they are IT!There are two types of resources that I could think of that could be considered renewable yet give a source of energy as well. One is somewhat non humorous and the other, well, you have to think outside the box.
1.
The first one is the thought of the food that we eat. There is always plenty of it and it is possible to use the energy from the old food for energy. Let me give you an example. If we were to take food that was thrown away or rotten. We could make it first chopped up and then run it through a process the same way our bodies do like run it through an acid. Then what ever is left we can either burn it or run it through to produce energy from it. (THIS IS ACTUALLY DONE.)
2.
This one is one that is really renewable. This is the concept of farting. First of all you know why I say it is renewable huh, well if we get enough people to produce it, we would get lots of nitrogen, with hydrogen sulfides (hydrogen sulfide is what makes farts stink) and we know that we can get energy from nitrogen, or simply make it burn, and we can leave the sulfer for enemies to smell. Ha ha ha
-RADON
I watched on some channel (probably Discovery Channel or the news or something) of a plant that does the same thing being built. It shows a big dump truck sending pounds and pounds of Thanksgiving leftovers (mostly turkey) being dumped into a facility which sorts out things that will not work with the machinery. They then converted them all into energy for a particular city. What is also very interesting is that giant tubes lined the ceiling which supposedly kept all the elements from combining into what we know as air pollution and released it (or stored it) as a safer version of the elements (such as pure oxygen rather than ozone, etc.). Now that I think about it, I really think it was real and not just a dream.
| bigzero wrote: |
| Marston wrote: | | Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
Technically then there is no such thing as renewable energy. There is a limited amount of energy in the universe and it is going from a more concentrated source (sun) to a lower one (background heat), sorta like diffusion. We're just in the middle of it. So once all the energy is evenly distributed in the universe, we won;t be able to reuse any of it.
Anyway, to stay on the topic, there's a really swet source of energy that I read about way back when. It's called thermal depolarization. You can read up on it at http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
I thought it was a really sweet idea. Couldn't really see many flaws about it. Tell me what you think |
well... some people would argue that there is not lots of food to eat...
it is too bad that converting solar power is so minor in capacity. You would think that with all the energy blasted out by the sun we could harness it more cheaply and more efficently. Or some of the waves of energy that hit us regardless of cloud cover.
but it makes so little power for such a high cost... it is unfortunate. Hopefully they will get the flexible polymer solar cover out into the stores sooner than later then we can paint our roofs, driveways, etc
| Marston wrote: |
| Technically, Solar energy isn't renewable in the sense that it won't always last. Eventually, the sun must go out. |
true, but not in our life time right? Technically if the sun die out, we all die. Caused the plant will die and all plant eating animal will die, and meat eating animal will die also.Let's be realistic hey, renewable/green energy sources will not be properly developed and taken on board until the huge oil/gas/coal energy companies lose their controlling position over the worlds governments.
We use too much energy as individuals in our western/first world luxury, and that is the major problem. Until or unless people are forced to use lower-power consumer goods etc, gas/oil/coal will remain king.
...and until the big traditional energy companies stop propping up and funding our governments, renewables will remain squeezed out of the plan.
Whatever happened to all the talk of cold fusion and being able to run cars on sea water. Was it ever proved or disproved? where the rumours true about Japanese car makers buying the patent for it?
renewable source is very environmental friendly, right?
however, I think a lot of development on the device should be made to increase efficiency.
I think in the future we will need to use every alternate fual source in order to achieve reliable, kind-of renuable energy
Has anyone considered the electrical output using the attraction or resistance of electromagnets? Looking at how turbines and such work, I can't see why electromagnets haven't been exploited.
Funnily enough there was a bunch of hockum about this a few weeks ago. A couple of Irish engineers claimed to have cracked the perpetual motion problem using an arrangement of magnets and charges.
Needless to say that when it appeared on peak news all the scientists groaned and turned over the channel Just as I did.....
I noticed that at Canadian Tire (Canada based 'hardware' store) have started carrying windmills now!
Maybe another option for alternative energy is compressed air.
I remembered reading an article about compressed air engine. It is fantastic discovery. The engine used compressed air to push the piston, replacing fuel. The car with this engine can run up to 100 miles - full tank. Max speed is around 60 Mph.
| Bikerman wrote: |
Funnily enough there was a bunch of hockum about this a few weeks ago. A couple of Irish engineers claimed to have cracked the perpetual motion problem using an arrangement of magnets and charges.
Needless to say that when it appeared on peak news all the scientists groaned and turned over the channel Just as I did..... |
Here is a link to the company's website: Steorn
They're either committing a hoax or are consistently wrong.
Respectfully,
M
