FRIHOSTFORUMSSEARCHFAQTOSBLOGSCOMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


Sex Before Marriage





thpn
Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other.

Animal wrote:
Just because people in a discussion you started do not agree with you does not give you the right to close the topic, or more importantly, tell the moderators what to do. I've read through the topic and dealt with any posts I feel are in breach of the rules and have no decency. Other than that, it seems that this is a fair, balanced argument and you have no grounds to demand that it be closed.

Please do not edit your topics and demand they are closed again - if you feel that you have a genuine reason for a topic to be closed or moved, please PM a moderator. Do NOT edit this comment out.
ocalhoun
Completely agreed.
Should be a poll eh?
yupeng
Yes,people should cherish there sex right.
Go across the sex limit is not a good thing
Shike
I would have to disagree, to a point. I believe that a true emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marraige. It is in these moments that true life actualy reveals itself.
yasaroz
In my religion, Islam, sex before marriage is strictly prohibited. Even, a man and a woman who hadn't been married, cannot kiss and touch each other (except brother, father, sister, mother, grandmother and grandfather, aunt, uncle, son and daughter). 'cause, this behaviours can cause sexual emotions and than sexual intercourse. For a strong family and community, this prohibition is very important.
Diebels
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts.


I think this is completly Bulls**t, here in Europe you are not forced into marriga like in other countrys (no offence). Like me and my Wife, we are together for many years and have a little daughter, but we never going to get married. I call her my wife bacause she is in my heart and as such also accepted in my and her familily.There is no reasen to getmarried when you really love each other. And in the case you want to split up you do it anyway, if married or not.
Thats my opinion Wink
Whong
Quote:
in Europe you are not forced into marriga like in other countrys


Thats why we have so many devorces and unhappy families! Sad Idea

Sex is ment for husband and wife, the main idea why God gave us the sexual feelings etc. is that we would be fruitful and multiply! It's isn't right for people to go and have sex with anyone they want and not before marriage! Sex before marriage usually breaks the love relationship later, because sex before marriage is wrong!!!! Exclamation

That's why Islamists, Catholics etc. have better marriages they cherish their most personal thing that is only to be seen in bedrooms after marriage! Exclamation Idea

I myself am a Chritian, a humble servant of my LORD, and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Idea Wink Laughing Very Happy
Shike
There are actually studeis done on male sperm, that show that nature disagrees. There are certain sperm cells that are "worrior" cells designed to fight off the sperm of another man.


Ok, biology aside. I completely disagree with sex before marraige ruins the relationship. My wife and I have been married for a little over three years. We've been together over six, and we had sex within the first week of starting to date.

Sex is an expression of Love. I do agree that frivolous sex is pointless and should be avoided, but, loving sex should be cherished and experienced fully.
Brakdűr
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts. But, I want to know what you guys think...


Hello,

can you show me, where in the bible this is? I would love to see it.

Greets
swapnalokam
"You cannot have sex before marriage, but after marriage it is ok"... So you were saying having sex with Ten different women is OK. So you can be unfaithfull to your wife/hus after marriage...

Guys... Having Sex before marriage has nothing wrong in it, if you are going to live yor life with the same person, no matter what happened. Sex is divine and pure.

But having sex before marriage is a big SIN if you are having that just for time pass.
gunnarr
I have to agree with Shike and Diebels on this one. I am european and i am Christian. If there is a god, why would he install this urge to have sex into us if he doesn't want us to follow that instinct until later on in life? So if people are never proposed to, God never want's them to have sex in their entire lifes? That isn't in cosistancy with so called "God's will" where he wishes humans enternal happyness. The bible was written by men after all, it didn't fall on someone's head from the sky.
Eating before marriage isn't a sin. Breathing air before marriag isn't a sin. Sleeping before marriage isn't a sin, why would sex be? It is one of those big needs installed in all humas. Isn't it possible that this is an ancient birth control system, there were no condoms those days and people had to do somthing on order to control how many babies were coming.
Denying yourself of this basic need doesn't lead you to salvation or make god like you more than he already does. But on the other hand, going across the limit is not good but the bible and it command lines are more like guidlines, not the LAW. Some people like an ancient script to be in charge of their lifes, i am not one of them.
Brakdűr
swapnalokam wrote:
But having sex before marriage is a big SIN if you are having that just for time pass.[/b]


Why? Please tell me, why is this? Where do you get this from? Wo is telling you what is "sin" and what is "right"? Who has done the definition?

Greets
the666bbq
sex before marriage is absolutely wrong ... therefor it is heavenly to do it (the forbidden fruit and stuff) but but but - after all it is not that big a deal...
Garnet
I can't see what would be wrong with it if the two people love each other. Divorces don't happen because they had sex before marriage - they divorce often because they didn't know each other well enough (studies have shown that A LOT of women get married for the wedding, not the marriage), financial issues, and just plain changes in behaviour.

Where I live very few people believe in getting married, the idea being that you shouldn't need papers to say " I love you," and that it isn't eternal anyway since if it doesn't work out you can pay a lot of money and get out of it. I don't think waiting to be married would work very well with this mentality.
Gieter
swapnalokam wrote:
"You cannot have sex before marriage, but after marriage it is ok"... So you were saying having sex with Ten different women is OK. So you can be unfaithfull to your wife/hus after marriage...


You should really read the Bible (actually a part of it.) One of the ten commandements says that you may not be unfaithful. How about that?

I don't think that sex before marriage is wrong, as long as you love each other and both partners are ready and willingly to do it. Sounds cliché, but that's still the truth I think. Smile
Whong
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes
inflamesbhs
I disagree with the whole sex before marriage being immoral. As a liberally minded college student, I look at religion as more of a ground work for established morals, used to help mold who we are as people. Instead of saying that religion is the ultimate set of what's right and what's wrong, but more a guide to help you build your own set of beliefs. I have been raised Baptist, but I don't view the Bible as the ultimate source for the word of God either. God gave people free choice for a reason, and that's because, in my opinion, that God took parts of his message and put it into multiple religions. I believe that all religion, just like philosophies, should be used as a way to help you decide how to run your own life through moral or just means.
wimvpetegem
Quote:
I believe that all religion, just like philosophies, should be used as a way to help you decide how to run your own life through moral or just means.


That would be very different.
Religions are not the samen, far from that.
Which parts of the religions will you take?
Which are right, which wrong?
It is much more diffecult to say that you can mix all the religions to one then only believe in one.

Quote:

What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!


The Bible (my main source) doesn't say something about mastrubation.
I think you do better to do it not, it will get you closer to sex.
Gieter
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


I don't think it's wrong, it's something natural. If you don't masturbate, you have a higher risk on cancer of the prostate. And some fifty years (or less) ago it was still strictly forbidden, but as much boys as now were doing it I think.
wimvpetegem
Gieter wrote:
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


I don't think it's wrong, it's something natural. If you don't masturbate, you have a higher risk on cancer of the prostate. And some fifty years (or less) ago it was still strictly forbidden, but as much boys as now were doing it I think.


Ehm, I think that we talk about two kinds of mastrubation:
-mastrubation for yourself (this is naturally, not wrong i think)
-mastrubation for you partner (this is dangerous, i think)
Gieter
wimvpetegem wrote:
Gieter wrote:
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


I don't think it's wrong, it's something natural. If you don't masturbate, you have a higher risk on cancer of the prostate. And some fifty years (or less) ago it was still strictly forbidden, but as much boys as now were doing it I think.


Ehm, I think that we talk about two kinds of mastrubation:
-mastrubation for yourself (this is naturally, not wrong i think)
-mastrubation for you partner (this is dangerous, i think)


I think it's the same as sex, isn't it?
Josso
No offense but - bull****

People should be able to do what they want
wimvpetegem
Gieter wrote:
wimvpetegem wrote:
Gieter wrote:
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


I don't think it's wrong, it's something natural. If you don't masturbate, you have a higher risk on cancer of the prostate. And some fifty years (or less) ago it was still strictly forbidden, but as much boys as now were doing it I think.


Ehm, I think that we talk about two kinds of mastrubation:
-mastrubation for yourself (this is naturally, not wrong i think)
-mastrubation for you partner (this is dangerous, i think)


I think it's the same as sex, isn't it?


Ehm, no it is not the same as sex.
But what is sex, that question could you ask.
The dutch word for sex is 'seks' and sexual contact could be also kissing or other contact.
Getting a orgasm, is that sex? But that will also happend at mastrubation...
It isn't all so clear...
Gieter
wimvpetegem wrote:
Gieter wrote:
wimvpetegem wrote:
Gieter wrote:
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


I don't think it's wrong, it's something natural. If you don't masturbate, you have a higher risk on cancer of the prostate. And some fifty years (or less) ago it was still strictly forbidden, but as much boys as now were doing it I think.


Ehm, I think that we talk about two kinds of mastrubation:
-mastrubation for yourself (this is naturally, not wrong i think)
-mastrubation for you partner (this is dangerous, i think)


I think it's the same as sex, isn't it?


Ehm, no it is not the same as sex.
But what is sex, that question could you ask.
The dutch word for sex is 'seks' and sexual contact could be also kissing or other contact.
Getting a orgasm, is that sex? But that will also happend at mastrubation...
It isn't all so clear...


I think it is sex. What is sex? According to the Van Dale (very popular in Belgium and the Netherlands) sex is: 1 acts and feelings that have to do with physical excitement and making love => sexual intercourse

According to that definition masturbating your partner is sex. What else could it be?

EDIT: this is clearly a misunderstanding. With "it's the same as sex" I meant "it's sex" or "it's a form of sex." I said that, because this thread goes about sex before marriage.
wimvpetegem
As I said: sex can also something more than only a orgasm.
Only kissing could be sex.
swapnalokam
Brakdűr wrote:
Why? Please tell me, why is this? Where do you get this from? Wo is telling you what is "sin" and what is "right"? Who has done the definition?



OK... first to let you know that.. we write our opinions and our way of thinking about right and wrong here right... and I just want to let you know that... I do not think.. Bible is the right book... I belive it was just a code book written only for Jews.. and as I said.. I don't think having sex just for time pass... (I mean having it with somebody other than your life partner... like you just do it.. without love... giving money... or some crap like that).. is right

The only thing I want to say is... If you are having sex with one partner and is going to spend rest of the life with that person.... It is absolutely right... no matter what purpose you do it..

and for your question.... The time pass I meant was ... doing it without Love..


Josso wrote:
No offense but - bull****

People should be able to do what they want


If people should be able to do what they.. want... then why the heck we have.. government, laws, and law enforcements... why do we have.. Moral, Religion, and... if I come to your home.. and kick you out of your house... I think it will be O.K. for you... since you already said... People should be able to do what they want....

Thanks
thpn
Brakdűr wrote:
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts. But, I want to know what you guys think...


Hello,

can you show me, where in the bible this is? I would love to see it.

Greets


Well, it says it right here...
Quote:
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

The dictionary meaning of the word "fornication" means any unlawful sexual intercourse including adultery. In the Bible the Greek definition of the word "fornication" means to commit illicit sexual intercourse. What constitutes unlawful sex? Whose laws do we live by? Worldly standards or laws many times do not always line up with the Word of God. The founding fathers of the United States established many laws that were originally based on Christian standards and the laws of the Bible. However, through time the United States has drifted far from these standards and at the present our moral standards are shocking the world. However, immorality is not only found in the U.S. but is a world-wide epidemic. Societies throughout history and around the globe have embraced sexual standards that are called sins in the Bible.

Fornication is not just tolerated in our society but is actually being encouraged. The sin of fornication is being committed even among Christians, as many couples "live together" and have sex before marriage. The Bible tells us to flee this sin. We have counseled Christians of the opposite sex who share an apartment and they told us they were not having sex so this surely wasn't wrong. The Bible declares these words in 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23:

"Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Our lives as Christians are a living witness to others and we cannot break the laws of God without hindering others from coming to Christ. We must live our lives in purity before a sinful and wicked world. We should not be living according to their standards but according to God's standard in the Bible. No couple should live together outside the bonds of marriage.

Many say they live together before marriage to see if they are compatible as they don't want to divorce. This may sound like a justifiable reason for committing the sin of fornication, but in God's eyes it is still sin. Statistics however, show that those who live together before marriage are more likely to get a divorce than those who do not. Living together shows a total lack of trust in God and a failure to commit to Him the choosing of a mate. Christians who are living in this situation are out of the will of God and need to repent and seek God as to whether this person is the right one for them. If it is God's will for them to be together they should marry. Otherwise, they need to change their living arrangements.

As Christians, the goal of any relationship should be to cause the people in our lives to love and know the Lord better. Living together is shameful and selfish as the parties do not care what others think or how they might affect their families and others. They are living to please their own lust and selfish desires. This type of life style is destructive and especially so for children whose parents are living a bad example before them. No wonder our children are confused about right and wrong when parents degrade the sanctity of marriage by living together out of wedlock. How can living together cause children to love and honor God when their parents break the laws of God before them because they are lustful?

Young people today need to be taught to abstain from sexual intercourse and remain pure virgins before marriage. So many problems in marriages today stem from the fact that they are not virgins when they marry. Young people are bringing wounded emotions and diseased bodies into their marriages because of prior promiscuous affairs. STDs (Sexually Transmitted Diseases) are so widespread that the statistics are shocking. There are 12 million new cases of STDs annually in the United states and 67% of these occur among persons under the age of 25. In fact, every year one out of six teens contracts an STD. 100,000 to 150,000 women become infertile each year as a result of STDs.ą Others endure years of pain as some of these diseases are incurable. What a tragic price to pay for sexual sins. The Bible is right when it says fornication is a sin against one's own body.

The sin of fornication is not only defined as illicit sexual intercourse between those who are not married but also is an umbrella for other sexual sins as well. The Bible also speaks of the sin of incest as fornication in 1 Corinthians 5:1:

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."


The Bible also lists ****** as fornicators in Revelation 21:8:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and ******, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


All prostitutes and pimps are fornicators. Couples who just "live together" according to the Bible, are committing the same sin that ****** commit. Singles who "make love" fall into the same category. Just because society has accepted this type of living does not make it right. The Bible must be our standard of what is right and wrong. We must change our standards if we do not want the wrath of God to fall on us. God hates sin but He loves the sinner. If anyone repents and calls on Jesus today He will help them to come out of any illicit relationship and heal them of all past hurts and even heal any disease that they may have contracted.

God gave us the laws in the Bible for our good. They are not meant to deny us any good thing but they are given so we can enjoy the proper sexual relationship in the proper time. If we obey the words of the Bible and "flee fornication" and glorify God in our bodies, the Lord will bless us beyond what we could believe.

Psalm 145:17-21: "The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them. The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever."


Animal wrote:
Please use quote tags as per the forum rules.
thpn
Whong wrote:
What do you think about masturbation? Is it wrong!!? Question Exclamation Rolling Eyes


Well, yes it is wrong. It is a sin of adultury.

Bible Answer:
Quote:
What does the Bible say about masturbation?" is one of our most frequently asked questions. Many Christians have found it difficult to answer this question according to the Bible, because the Bible never mentions masturbation specifically. To understand how God feels about this subject, we must examine other verses that deal with issues such as lust, self-control and purity. Also, we must examine its fruit to see if it is from God. We have tried to address this issue by answering some of the most frequently asked questions. Our prayer is that God will use this page to bring freedom and deliverance.

"Does God care about what we do in the privacy of our bedrooms?"

Sex is God's invention. He is the mastermind behind it—and His creation is worth far more to Him than it is to us. This beautiful expression of love was created out of His own heart, as a gift to be experienced between a husband and wife. It is only in marriage that this manifestation of intimacy can be fully enjoyed in the depth for which it was created.

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and the sexually immoral" (Hebrews 13:4, NIV).

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but ****** and adulterers God will judge" (Hebrews 13:4, KJV).

The more beautiful and unique something is (like sexual intercourse), the more power it holds over our lives, either for good or bad influence. That is why it is so easy for the devil to corrupt the most precious of God's gifts. When we become more in love with the gifts than the One who endowed them, the things that were designed to bless us begin to destroy us instead. Yes, God cares about what we do with our bodies, in public or in private. He doesn't want us to abuse ourselves in any way.

In fact, an older definition of masturbation is "self-abuse." Although more modern dictionaries may no longer carry this definition, they are still linked together under self-abuse:

Self-abuse nouną

1. Abuse of oneself or one's abilities.
2. Masturbation.

1 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV) further confirms this, saying that unlawful sexual relations defile our own bodies. "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

"Isn't it still better to masturbate than to commit fornication?"

The easy answer to this question would be, "Yes, it is better to masturbate, because at best it corrupts only one person. It certainly is the lesser of two evils." However, why would a loving, holy, all-powerful God abandon you to a situation in which you have to choose any evil, whether it be "lesser" or "greater?" To really answer this question, we must again go back to God's original plan for sex.

First of all, masturbation will not truly relieve the sexual pressure that one may feel. It may for a short moment, but in the long run it only creates a deeper desire and capacity for sex, which will lead to more masturbation. If you let yourself become enslaved to a sexual high, you will find that you need to go to increasingly extreme acts to maintain the same degree of excitement. There are even ungodly sex therapists who recommend masturbation as a way of increasing sexual desire, not lessening it. This creates a vicious circle, like the junkie who craves a "fix," but is only temporarily satisfied. The more he indulges in his dependency, the more ensnared by addiction he becomes. This is the nature of all sin. That is why Jesus declared that all who sin become a slave to sin (John 8:34).

Furthermore, masturbation usually involves fantasy, visualization, and often pornography. The Bible is very clear as to what God expects of us in these areas of fantasy and lust. It teaches that we must not look lustfully at each other nor should we behave in such a manner as to entice others to lust after us.

"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look with lust upon a girl. I know full well that the Almighty God sends calamity on those who do" (Job 31:1-3, The Living Bible).

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:2Cool.

While the above verses refer to men lusting after women, all women know that it can very easily be reversed to apply to themselves as well. Men may be more easily visually stimulated than women, but women can be just as vulnerable to sexual fantasy in the emotional realm. Both are sin in God's eyes, and both can be brought into subjection by controlling our thoughts through Christ's power.

All sexual immorality begins with a thought. A lustful thought not taken captive, will eventually lead to other perversions, because sin reproduces itself in increasingly greater measures. If we do not deal with our evil thoughts, they will take root in our hearts.

It is for this reason that God is so concerned with our thought life. Jesus came not only to deliver us from our "outward" sins, but also from wickedness that begins in the heart.

"Isn't God unreasonable to demand sexual purity after giving us sexual drives that seem to overwhelm us at times?"

Our loving God never demands from us what is impossible for us to do. We are so weak within ourselves that it may seem impossible, but He will equip us with His holy power to overcome any sin, if we ask in faith.

Of course, sexual urges in and of themselves are not wicked. They are natural. God created us that way. He desires that we get optimum pleasure out of them by using them the way they were created to be used. However, many desires for physical gratification (whether it be food, sex, etc.) stem from a deeper need that is unfilled deep inside us. Gorging our flesh can never fill a hunger that grows out of our spirit. Only intimacy with God can fill the deepest needs inside of us. No other created thing has that power.

God is no more unreasonable than any caring parent who lovingly disciplines their child. It is only because He knows what is best for us. He sees a mighty potential in each one of us that far supersedes our wildest dreams, and He loves us enough to do all He can to bring it to pass.

"I agree with all the theory, but living it out on a day to day level is another story."

This is the place where we need the empowerment of the Holy Spirit in our everyday lives. The Holy Spirit is not a vague "force," but the very power of God to comfort you and strengthen you against the sins that used to rule you before you were born again. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, we have the very ability that Jesus had to resist temptation. He depended completely upon the Father and so must we.

Something you must know is that God is not the one who is tempting you in this area to "test" you. God is on your side and wants to set you free from these things, not lead you into them! "When tempted, no one should say "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed" (James 1:13-14).

God wants us to overcome every sin and temptation in our lives. Please slowly read the following verses and let their message seep deep inside your spirit.

"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it" (1 Corinthians 10:13).

"For though we live in the world we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

"In the same way count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace" (Romans 6:11-14).

"For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Hebrews 4:15-16, King James Version).

"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God" (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"Can I really be set free?"

"In (this) freedom, Christ has made us free—completely liberated us; stand fast then, and do not be hampered and held ensnared and submit again to a yoke of slavery—which you have once put off " (Galatians 5:1 Amp).

If you are in a real struggle with any form of sexual sin, we do not believe it was by accident that God led you to this teaching. He wants to set you free, starting right now! We would like to share several things that you can do to break loose from this stronghold:

1. Confess this sin first to God, then go to a committed Christian you trust, such as your pastor. Ask God to lead you to someone that you can be accountable with, who will be faithful to pray with you and for you. This will take humility on your part, but it will lead to life. James 5:16 says: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." (You may not feel "righteous" but if you have admitted your sin to God and received His forgiveness, you are! That means your prayers are powerful and effective!)

2. Flee from and reject anything that aggravates this sin. For example, you may need to get off the Internet for a season or purchase software that blocks out pornography. This may sound too drastic, but it certainly is mild compared to Jesus who said, "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to go into Hell" (Matthew 5:30). His point was that we must be willing to part with anything that causes us to sin—even if it hurts temporarily.

3. You may need to seek healing and deliverance from qualified Christians who are anointed in this area of ministry. If you have been deeply involved in sexual sins, the devil probably has a stronghold in that area of your life. If you can, find some people who can help you stand against the devil, for he is the one who seeks to lead you into temptation, and whispers lies of hopelessness and shame into your ears. If he drops a filthy thought into your mind just when you are trying to pray (he has used this tactic on even the holiest saints of God), tell him to leave in the name of Jesus! Recognize his voice for what it is, and submit yourself to God. As you do this and resist the devil, he will flee from you! He is deathly afraid of those who are submitted to God in brokenness and humility.

4. Don't give up! Deliverance might take time. Self-control takes effort. You may slip occasionally—or even a lot. But remember that God loves you and He will be faithful to perfect His character in you as long you keep submitting to Him. Eventually you will win—and not because of your best efforts, but because of God's mercy (Titus 3:5). Just as salvation is received in faith, so deliverance must be received in faith. This has nothing to do with our character, strength, or failings. The only thing it is dependant upon is you receiving it in humility. If you should fail, recognize it quickly, ask God to forgive you—and then receive His forgiveness! He is faithful to do that which He promised, not just in a select few mighty men and women of God, but in all who are willing to come humbly before Him. That includes you! We want to encourage you to hold on to this scripture as your anchor:

"May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and He will do it" (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

If there is anything else we can do to help you, please let us know. In closing, we would like to pray for you:

"Father, we thank you for bringing this person into our website. We know that it was your Holy Spirit that led them here and we thank you for your faithfulness to them! We lift them up to you now and ask that You fill them with a desire for You that transcends every other desire they have ever known. Let them know your cleansing love and power. We thank you that he whom the Son has set free, is free indeed. We speak this freedom into the life of this one whom the devil has bound in shame. We speak healing and deliverance and we break every tie that has kept them under a spirit of addiction and perversion. We stand against the Evil One and his every plan to bring destruction in this one's life. Father, in faith, and by the power and authority You have given us, we declare that this one is FREE in the name of Jesus! We commit them to Your care and we loose Your Holy Spirit to minister to them at this very instant. We ask these things in the precious name of Your son, Jesus Christ."
Tasukii
I disagree with that, sex is a thing that you should be able to do whenever you want. It's all about pleasure. If you marry someone and you have sex with him after the wedding, what would you do if you realize he sucks at sex?
And I agree on masturbation too, I think self-pleasure is a right that concern ourselves only not religion.
Lennon
OK, so we have some people who have standards and morals like myself, especially if you're religous...

But then you fall in love, that changes everything... you partner offers you sex, and you've been dreamin of it for ages, and you both want it....
And you plan it, and you have feelings for it, and it's a mature relationship.... Rules always have exceptions...

What if you rush into marriage, then the sex after marriage would be fine, but the marriage mighn't be...
Gieter
wimvpetegem wrote:
As I said: sex can also something more than only a orgasm.
Only kissing could be sex.


Why do you think that? Do you have any arguments that can make me clear that kissing is sex? So if they asked you "have you ever had sex?", do you think they are talking about sexual intercourse or about kissing? I think the first.
ebkari
well. i'm not christian, so i don't know if this helps you. but before christianity, there was paganism -in which all denominations believed sex was beloved and should be celebrated. yes, times have changed, but if you're reffering to tradition (the bible), another tradition says that sex is not a sin in any form (obviously not including rape and such).

on a personal side, i don't believe you should wait to have sex until you're married. having sex before you're wedded gives you a chance to know what you're looking for..what if you marry someone who does something you -hate- and you have to live with it for the rest of your life?
Gieter
ebkari wrote:

on a personal side, i don't believe you should wait to have sex until you're married. having sex before you're wedded gives you a chance to know what you're looking for..what if you marry someone who does something you -hate- and you have to live with it for the rest of your life?


To make love you need two persons. If something bothers you, saying it to your partner is more effective than breaking up and looking for someone else. I mean, if you really have a good relationship, you're not going to break up because of the bad sex? (OK, I agree that some people may be very bad in bed, but that's still no reason to break up.)
Garnet
I've heard of those situations where it turns out after the wedding that the girl (sometimes the guy) just doesn't want sex at all. I've seen people get surprised by a spouse that would like sex maybe once a year.
Brakdűr
[quote="thpn"]
Well, it says it right here...
Quote:
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."


I snipped the rest because it's an interpratation of somebody. Which source are you using? I can´t see a word about havin sex, before marriage!

Greets!
thpn
Brakdűr wrote:


I snipped the rest because it's an interpratation of somebody. Which source are you using? I can´t see a word about havin sex, before marriage!

Greets!


I'm using www.bible.com.[/url]
harry088
i wouldn't say Sex before marriage is completely wrong.. In this case, people involving in carnal activity should be above 18 clean of any STDs...
gunnarr
Well, actually, if someone want's to have sex before marriage it's his own private business and shouldn't concern anyone else (but his sex partner but of course). Some people want to have sex before marriage, others don't. Their decition. So go have sex when you fell your'e ready.
Hogwarts
It is kind of dumb. I mean, marriage costs a tens of thousands (au) all for that "perfect" marriage
riv_
I think that one of the reasons this issue is so unclear, is that our ideas about marriage have changed so much over time.
In Biblical times, people got married at ayoung age. It wasn't a big to-do... the woman just moved into the man's tent. (Not a lot of room for debate on this, just read your Bibles)
Now, we figure we encourage young people to get an education, pursue a career, get it all together - before they consider marriage. That's a lot more time to be tempted.
And then we're encouraged to date several people whom we have no intention of ever marrying.
And then the couple should have a lengthy engagement, lots of unchaperoned dates, and the wedding HAS to be a big public display.
And of course, marriage is a legal contract, not a simple union in the eyes of God.
Well, if we truly expect people to abstain from sexual contact (I do believe it's more than just intercourse we should resist)... we're sending some mixed messages, aren't we? If we really value this whole no-sex-before-marriage thing, the whole thing has to be reworked.
I think most of us pay lip service to the idea, but our values are reflected more in what we do than in what we say.
thpn
You see, from someone standing outside and looking in this is what you would see. There are things called STDs [Sexually Transmitted Diseases]. A few of them (HIV, Genital Herpies, etc.) can cause to death, lifetime illness, or being unfertile [Never being able to have a child]. Now, if to partners have pre-marital sex then:

1. You could get an STD which will lead to...
2. You could form cancer, you could become unfertile (women), you could die, you could have blisters all over you genital area, or you could die (no, i did not put it twice by accident).
3. You loose you virginity! This is the most special gift to your partner at marriage.
4. You could become pregnent.


Now, I don't know about all women but I am sure that most do not want to be unfertile for the rest of their life. Also, most people don't want to die early or have the fear of death. Also also, do you want to spread your disease around to toher people and kill everyone because you had a stupid one-night-stand with a guy/girl that left you the next morning broken-hearted? Also (and most importantly), do you want to loose you virginity to someone who does not care about you?

Think of your virginity as a boot. Now, this boot is the wedding present to your spouse for him/her to wear. If you wait until marriage, think of how happy he/she will be to have a nice clean boot anly for her/him. But, if you sleep around for ten years and have all kinds of STDs and abortions or children behind you what will he/she think..."Great gift honey!", yeah right.

Now, a lot of you keep saying that of you don't practice then you will be horrible when you are married and split up...not if he/she loved you! Mabye God (Allah, etc.) wants you to not be great at sex to test your spouse, he has a plan for everything you know. If he does split with you, he never cared about you. If he does love you then it won't matter because you don't have to know positions 1-208 to produce a child, 1 will do just fine. That is what sex is! God's gift of love to be shared between you and your indefinate partner only! So, if you want to die and go to Hell then continue sleeping around but be sure to say Hi to Satan for me! But, if you want eternal life in Heaven with the infallible God, Mary, and Jesus stick with God's plan and he will reward you beyond your imagination.
MWANGI
Diebels wrote:
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts.


I think this is completly Bulls**t, here in Europe you are not forced into marriga like in other countrys (no offence). Like me and my Wife, we are together for many years and have a little daughter, but we never going to get married. I call her my wife bacause she is in my heart and as such also accepted in my and her familily.There is no reasen to getmarried when you really love each other. And in the case you want to split up you do it anyway, if married or not.
Thats my opinion Wink


I totally agree with you . It is completely bullshit. even in the bible, people never used to get married officially. it was simply saying that this woman is your wife and that you are married to her. it does not even mention any ceremony's that were done.

So marriage in the bible was just a thought and nothing was signed or anything formal was not done so why not just say that every woman is your wife then it will not be against your religeon. you can have many wives. infact like the whole entire world.

did'nt the wisest man in the bible have sooooooooooo many wives. Be wise. Have many and call them your wives then you will go to haeven and you will be wise and happy.

BUT USE PROTECTION IF YOU WANT MANY
Gieter
MWANGI wrote:

So marriage in the bible was just a thought and nothing was signed or anything formal was not done so why not just say that every woman is your wife then it will not be against your religeon. you can have many wives. infact like the whole entire world.

did'nt the wisest man in the bible have sooooooooooo many wives. Be wise. Have many and call them your wives then you will go to haeven and you will be wise and happy.

BUT USE PROTECTION IF YOU WANT MANY


The sixth commandement: "You shall not commit adultery." Quite clear, isn't it? Who do you mean with "the wisest man in the bible"? I hope you don't mean Jezus. Wink Maybe you're talking about a mormon gospel or something.
smartbei
The bible includes the old testament as well, common overlooked for some reason by many christians. It is difficult to find a major male figure there without more than one wife.
Gieter
smartbei wrote:
The bible includes the old testament as well, common overlooked for some reason by many christians. It is difficult to find a major male figure there without more than one wife.


The ten commendements are in the Old Testament. You have however a point that's is necessary that if a Christian wants to understand the New Testament, he also will have to read the Old Testament, because there are many references in the New Testament to the Old Testament.
thpn
People obviously don't read the Bible thouroughly anymore Sad ...You see, there were people who had many wives at one point, like David, but he saw the error of his ways and decided to change. He had three wives before Bathsheba and God punished him for that. He killed his first baby with Bathsheba and David repented and wrote hundreds of Psalms of sorrow and that asked for forgiveness.
startsomething
I personally am not against pre-marital, but I do think that people should only have sex with one person. The one they love. And in order to be sure that you love them, some committment is in order. And in a way, having sex is that committment. I just don't think it is right to have sex with multiple people. I think you should only share yourself with the one you are spending the rest of your life with.
Is that weird? I guess I'm not the typical teen then. Oh well.
Che
Personal point of view...
It is certainly a good idea to limit your sexual relations to one person. That person which you are likely to have children and even spend the rest of your life with.


This claim however is not based upon some the fact that religious text imposes it. Or that choosing one or the other is thought as wrong (which is not), but because it is likely to save the individual from going through a bunch of possible problems, including not only STDs as it has already been mentioned, but also psychological.

Thinking economically, having sexual relations with one person is likely to ameliorate a lot of today's problems, including teenage suicide rate, abortion rate, premature defects, child death rate, STDs spread and many other factors... Yet, this is only logical thinking. I am not saying having sexual relations with more than one person is wrong! Or claiming that it is a sin because someone wrote so, or simply because of mere faith. I am simply observing data and providing an opinion based on it.

In addition, the whole deal behind sex before/after marriage... Neither one nor the other is wrong... just as it goes with the whole topic. Let’s just say, that there are intelligent and stupid decisions from sexually active individuals. Consider this case: Why does it makes a difference if one has a sexual relation with a person and then gets married to that person? (Hence I ask for logical reasoning not for proverbial references)
In fact… it does make a difference in the overall circumstance… We’ll see that having sex before marriage is likely to decrease the chances of one getting married to that person. In addition, it seems to take away from the enthusiastic passion that leads many into marriage (this is not always the case).

Live I’ve said, choosing one or the other is not wrong, yet there is only better and worse choice. A bad choice is not necessarily a wrong choice. Hence I stress on this topic because it seems that many religions try to inculcate individuals in waiting for marriage in order to have sexual relations though a fear system - Which I find very annoying…. “If you don’t act this way than you are a sinner, because for some reason that I don’t even understand this is a sin and is wrong!!” many would say… Yet here then I start to shift into a different topic: Using a fear system as a way to educate people into right choice… Given the current statistics on premarital sex, this system seems to not be working very well. Instead, I think individuals should learn more about acting through deliberation, instead of feeling. Here then, a lot of people will be more likely to stop having premarital sex because they understand a different decision is smarter, not because of the fear of being sent to hell if you did so.
Brakdűr
thpn wrote:
Brakdűr wrote:


I snipped the rest because it's an interpratation of somebody. Which source are you using? I can´t see a word about havin sex, before marriage!

Greets!


I'm using www.bible.com.[/url]


As I already said, these are interpratations, maybe you shoud read their "about" page Smile

Greets
thpn
Brakdűr wrote:
thpn wrote:
Brakdűr wrote:


I snipped the rest because it's an interpratation of somebody. Which source are you using? I can´t see a word about havin sex, before marriage!

Greets!


I'm using www.bible.com.[/url]


As I already said, these are interpratations, maybe you shoud read their "about" page Smile

Greets


I did, twice, and it says absolutly nothing about interpretations. Mabye you should read the book that tells what I believe, the Catechism, and then mabye you will find that you can't weasel you way out of everthing you little freak.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc_cont.html[/url]
Brakdűr
thpn wrote:
Mabye you should read the book that tells what I believe, the Catechism, and then mabye you will find that you can't weasel you way out of everthing you little freak.


Plonk!

Is it your way of getting people with other opinons out of your way? Saying "freak"? Very christian....

Great, welcome to my ignore list...

Greets
horseatingweeds
Premarital sex is a privilege of our spoiled society.
Tiger
I am currently living in South Africa, which has a high incidence of AIDS.
An interesting development, is that the government is currently preaching to people to abstain from sex before marriage. There are large billboards warning against AIDS, against promiscuity and against sex before marriage. There were also radio advertisements, etc.

Another interesting point is that psychologists have said that individuals who sleep around a lot before marriage often have broken marriages because they are often suspicious of their partners. Those who marry as virgins are often happier, more stable and closer to their partners.

Other studies have shown that the people who live the longest, happiest, healthiest lives, are often married with children and are engaged in some sort of spiritual and community activity (church, in a word).

On the other hand, various churches have demonized sex so much that some married couples only make love once a month or once a week.

Medical studies show that it is healthy to have sex several times a week depending on your age group (speak to your doctor).

On this subject, I also read an letter in a magazine about 2 weeks ago. It was written by a young woman who said she had been a virgin for 22 years before finally 'doing it' with "Mr. Right". She went on to say that after that she never heard from him again and deeply regreted her mistake. She had even become a little bitter and said that all men were cads. She advised all women readers not to give themselves to anyone before their wedding night.

What I pick up from this is that whatever your choice, you'll have to live with it for the rest of your life. What is done is done and can never be undone. It certainly seems to me that sex is enjoyable and normal, it is not something to hide or be ashamed of, but for best results it should be shared with someone you love and care about and are in a permanent relationship with. That also provides stability for any children that may result.
thpn
Brakdűr wrote:
thpn wrote:
Mabye you should read the book that tells what I believe, the Catechism, and then mabye you will find that you can't weasel you way out of everthing you little freak.


Plonk!

Is it your way of getting people with other opinons out of your way? Saying "freak"? Very christian....

Great, welcome to my ignore list...

Greets


Thank heavens! It's about time, by the way I am kinda new to FriHost so is there an ignore list on here? I've been dying to add you.
Rookiejas
sex is something to relax, enjoy and for other things but some of those things are wrong. sex if had with someone you love is ok in my book. but sex with someone who you don't know is wrong, comeon all your say if you don't know the person is that your desperate, unpopular and greedy.
Marston
This is silly. No, you don't become infertile - unless you don't get the STD treated. Yes, you can get STD's from a married partner, how does marriage protect you from that?

People should go at it whenever, and where ever they want.
a_dubDesign
from other discussions I've had with some people on another board, it seems waiting till the marriage has some practical application.

Quote:
A good perspective that I heard once is that sex is a "balm" in the first year of marriage (I know it's cheesy but stay with me). Two people trying to mesh their lives together is hard, and sex can help smooth over the stresses during that time. When sex is new to the relationship it's all the more effective. By having sex before marriage a couple is making the first year of their marriage more difficult. I have seen this happen when I compare a variety of my friends. The ones who had sex before marriage had a much more difficult first year of marriage. They fought a lot more than my friends who waited.
Valleyman
thpn wrote:
You see, from someone standing outside and looking in this is what you would see. There are things called STDs [Sexually Transmitted Diseases]. A few of them (HIV, Genital Herpies, etc.) can cause to death, lifetime illness, or being unfertile [Never being able to have a child]. Now, if to partners have pre-marital sex then:

1. You could get an STD which will lead to...
2. You could form cancer, you could become unfertile (women), you could die, you could have blisters all over you genital area, or you could die (no, i did not put it twice by accident).
3. You loose you virginity! This is the most special gift to your partner at marriage.
4. You could become pregnent.


I missed the part where this is any different from sex after marriage. Pre-marital sex does not necessarily mean promiscuous unsafe sex which is the type of behavior which carries an increased risk of all of these (except having losing you virginity, all of these carry exactly the same risk of losing your virginity 100%). Unsafe promiscuous sex I disagree with to an extent simply because it is somewhat stupid (and, by definition, unsafe). However pre-marital sex is perfectly fine.

thpn wrote:
Now, I don't know about all women but I am sure that most do not want to be unfertile for the rest of their life. Also, most people don't want to die early or have the fear of death. Also also, do you want to spread your disease around to toher people and kill everyone because you had a stupid one-night-stand with a guy/girl that left you the next morning broken-hearted? Also (and most importantly), do you want to loose you virginity to someone who does not care about you?


Once again, you're mixing up pre-marital promiscuous unsafe sex with simple garden variety pre-marital sex. Aside from this silly mixup is the fact that you seem to assume a lot of things. Like the fact that anyone you have pre-marital sex with does not care about you, or the fact that everyone who has sex outside of marriage is automatically a carrier for all kinds of nast STDs and suchlike. This is just silly.

thpn wrote:
Think of your virginity as a boot. Now, this boot is the wedding present to your spouse for him/her to wear. If you wait until marriage, think of how happy he/she will be to have a nice clean boot anly for her/him. But, if you sleep around for ten years and have all kinds of STDs and abortions or children behind you what will he/she think..."Great gift honey!", yeah right.


Once again, all sorts of silly assumptions and mixups make this really irrelevant. I'd like to add that your spouse (as they love you etc.) shouldn't be making that big a deal about your virginity (or lack thereof), they should be making a big deal about your love for each other. Although your virginity can be a nice symbolic gift to your partner in reality it has no actual relevance.

thpn wrote:
Now, a lot of you keep saying that of you don't practice then you will be horrible when you are married and split up...not if he/she loved you! Mabye God (Allah, etc.) wants you to not be great at sex to test your spouse, he has a plan for everything you know. If he does split with you, he never cared about you. If he does love you then it won't matter because you don't have to know positions 1-208 to produce a child, 1 will do just fine. That is what sex is! God's gift of love to be shared between you and your indefinate partner only! So, if you want to die and go to Hell then continue sleeping around but be sure to say Hi to Satan for me! But, if you want eternal life in Heaven with the infallible God, Mary, and Jesus stick with God's plan and he will reward you beyond your imagination.


This bit is irrelevant because you make all sorts of wonderful new assumptions which are as equally silly (if not sillier) as the rest. You make a nice blanket assumption that everyone here believes in an omnipotent Judeo-Christian-Islamic god which frowns upon pre-marital sex, is omnicient, and cares enough about a little inconsequetial pinprick of life (like you or me) to damn us to hell for sleeping around. This is silly for a number of reasons, namely: Your base theology is off, there are a number of Christian denominations that in no way frown upon pre-marital sex and believe that they are correct just as fervently as you believe the opposite. I don't know for sure about Islam and Judeaism (I have no personal experience there) but I'm fairly sure you could find a sect in each which would agree that pre-marital sex (as long as it is responsible) is fine and dandy. The other major reason that this is incorrect is far simpler and far more important: not everyone is Christian. In fact some of us (me for instance) hold no belief in god at all and thus your silly religious ranting holds no sway over us.
ibay
If you put religion aside, I think sex is a matter of personal freedom to use one's body as one likes. Sexual desire is something which is put into man by God, a young person is compelled to think about it, whether he/she approves of it or not. So what is the fault of that person who gives in to such desires and can't control him/herself?

I, despite being a Muslim, think that sex before marraige is no big sin, while I also beleive that it is a harmful activity. And dont u think that I am a sexually active person( I am a 25 year old virgin man!!! Embarassed )

Now considering my situation, is it possible for someone like me (is there any? Wink ) to oppose this idea? how can I deny myself this pleasure knowing that I am already so late at that? Now I have three choices before me, one, to get married as soon as possible(which I can't for the time being), second, to keep on controlling myself (even that I can't do anymore Twisted Evil), and third, to go for sex whenever I get a chance and make up for the lost time before I get old.
I am definitely going for the third option Twisted Evil I'll do it at the first chance I get Razz

I'll also ask what other 25 or more years old virgins think about Sex Before Marraige? If there are any at all in this world!

Moderator's Note: Please do not post entirely in large and bold letters.
ainieas
I don't mean to offend anyone but reading throught his thread I was reminded of something one of my friends had once said - Those who aint getting any would go to any lenghts to justify why.


To each his own interpretations.
ibay
ainieas wrote:
I don't mean to offend anyone but reading throught his thread I was reminded of something one of my friends had once said - Those who aint getting any would go to any lenghts to justify why.

To each his own interpretations.


Ainieas! this is what I was trying to explain, those who want it but don't get it would go to any length to justify it, they dont care about religion or any culture or law. And that's the case with me and others like me.
By the way, whats your opinion about this topic? how would you justify your point?
ThatCrazyGuy
As my father once said "Getting married is like buying a car, you don't sign the papers until you've taken it for a test drive". I would have to say that sex before marriage is almost needed. If you're not compatible in the bedroom, it will put a strain on the rest of your relationship, eventually erroding away at the other things that may be keeping you together. I can say this from expierence. As my wife and I's sex life went downhill, so has the rest of our relationship.It has taken time, 6 years, to get to it's lowest point, but it can and does happen.

~Crazy
Damondred
My fiancee and I were together for six months before we decided to have sex for the first time. In six months time, we grew closer, I asked her to marry me, all that. Well, sex just forged our relationship into something even greater than it already was. We knew what we were doing, and that it was wrong. But at the time, if it was wrong, we didn't want to be right. That is how much we loved each other. And still do. A lot of people say sex complicates things, but that is only true if you are having sex before you even get to know your partner. We knew everything about each other, and like I said, sex just forged our relationship into something stronger. I would reccomend to anyone to get to know your partner before you even think about sex.
Whong
Good that it worked for you, but it is still wrong! Exclamation
Sex before marriage is a bad thing how ever much you loved you're partner!
It is a question of respect, respect for your partner, for his/her parents and family. You've got to weigh all those things, wait for your wedding night, it will come, and if you've already had sex, what fun is in the wedding night then? Question

Do not rush into it like a bull into a china clauset! Rolling Eyes Very Happy Exclamation Idea
Damondred
Yes, I completely agree with you that it was wrong. But, at the same, time, we didn't want to be right. We wanted to embrace each other and never hold anything back. In a sense, we sealed our marriage right there, because we gave everything we had to each other and held NOTHING back. It was a beautiful thing.
alexxa
From http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ203.HTM:

Quote:
"To begin with, sex before marriage is sex without commitment. If we do not like our partners, we can change and find somebody else. Such casual relationships destroy the integrity of the person by reducing it to an object to be used for personal gratification. Some, who feel hurt and used after sexual encounters, may withdraw altogether from sexual activity for fear of being used again or may decide to use their bodies selfishly, without regard to the feeling of others. Either way, our sexuality is distorted because it destroys the possibility of using it to relate genuinely and intimately toward the one we love. Sex cannot be used as a means for fun with one partner at one time and as a way to express genuine love and commitment with another partner at another time.

Those who become accustomed to a variety of sexual partners will find it difficult, if not impossible, to express through sex their total commitment and final intimacy to their marital partners. Engaged couples will probably deny that when they sleep together they are not expressing genuine commitment to one another. But if they were fully and finally committed to each other, they would be married. Engagement is the preparation for marriage, but it is not marriage. Until the wedding vows are taken, the possibility of breaking up a relationship exists. If a couple has had intercourse together, they have compromised their relationship. Any subsequent break up will leave permanent emotional scars. "


Animal wrote:
Use proper quote tags in future as per forum rules
Arnie
The difference between 'loving eachother' and 'being married' is that the latter includes a covenant and a promise. In case of a religion that is usually also a promise before God. This is something to keep in mind when you would say that there's no significant difference between loving eachother and being married.
ainieas
ibay wrote:

Ainieas! this is what I was trying to explain, those who want it but don't get it would go to any length to justify it, they dont care about religion or any culture or law. And that's the case with me and others like me.
By the way, whats your opinion about this topic? how would you justify your point?



My stand on this topic is that the whole sex before marriage balances on the definition of marriage. Define marriage to me. I don't believe that the whole wedding thing is what makes a marriage. If two people live together, whether of the same sex or different, and if they are joint by the bonds of love then thats what makes a marriage to me whether they've been blessed by the Church or any other institution or not.

As far as sex before marriage goes, I'm a pagan, I like to revel in all things beautiful. And sex to me one of the most beautiful gifts of mother nature. I don't see it wrong if you have sex before marriage. Whether you know the person since a lifetime or for a beautiful moment that which will be gone in the blink of an eye. Its been said, when you have an orgasm, for that one moment you're one with God. Tell me then, how can you look down upon such a thing.

You have to fear diseases and such, only if you indulge in unsafe sex but thats just foolish. For the sake of your future partner and yourself - be safe.

I'm in college right now and I find that oppurtunities are plenty and I take them as I see them. Atleast I did before I got into a serious relationship and incidently with a devout Catholic girl. She doesn't adhere to the interpretations of the Holy Bible given by some know-all but interprets it in accordance to her believes. And she sees nothing wrong with sex before marriage, as neither do I.

Again the who said that if you have sex before marriage you can't trust your partner later on, thats just stupid, do you think an abstainer will have complete faith in his partner. It doesn't depend on abstainence or anything but on the person that you are and on the person that your partner is. Trust is a very important thing, and you DON'T gain it by abstinence.

Again, another commented that if you have sex before marriage then the first year of marriage is really hard, let me tell ya, the first time you try to adjust the pattern of your life with another indivisual , its going to be hard any way, having or not having sex before doesn't count. Sex is not the only thing to discover in a marriage. Its just one of the countless others.

When I quoted my friend saying - Those who aint getting any would go to any lenghts to justify why - I remembered his retort to a reli-reli type who was preaching to me and my friends that we were going to Hell for our indulgences. Let me ask - whose Hell?

Another question - if a really hot boy/girl were to preposition you, what would you do?
Bazza_Ballistic
I suppose it comes down to different strokes for different folks...

For me, I don't believe in a formal marriage, although the sentiment embodied in the institution is important in all relationships, so I've no problem with sex before marriage. However, I don't have one night stands either. I don't have anything against them, it's just not me. So when I do sleep with someone I'm in for the long haul, although it hasn't always worked out like that.

For other people, clearly many in this forum, marriage is extremely important . If marriage in your book means saving yourself for your spouse, and this is very important to you, then of course you shouldn't have sex before marriage.

The really important thing is to stick to what you believe in and be happy with yourself. If you contravene that then you'll be unhappy, if you're unhappy then maybe your partner becomes unhappy. Then marriage would be no fun at all... even with the sex Very Happy
Arnie
ainieas wrote:
If two people live together, whether of the same sex or different, and if they are joint by the bonds of love then thats what makes a marriage to me
I hope you did read my posting directly above yours. It's almost a direct reply...
milkmandan
i think the whole saving sex for marriage thing is stupid. no offense if this is something that you believe in, all the more power to you, but i personally don't see the purpose in it.
i saw someone wrote this before, but what if the person you marry ends up being really bad in bed? sex isn't ALL of a relationship, but i think it's a large part of it. if something that large in a relationship isn't working, there will be obvious problems in the future and no one wants to be in an unhappy marriage.
also, i think it's ridiculous to think that god or whoever you may believe in will think it's totally wrong to have sex right up until the second you're married, and then poof - right after you say your vows you can screw like wild animals.
i think religion should be seen as guidelines for when you need guidance, not strict rules that must be 100% adhered to. that's what laws and police are for.
snjripp
Sex without boundaries is bound to hedonism. Not a bad thing if that is what you want to be. Some boundaries are unsafe to cross many times in a lifetime. I think the US's CDC considers three sexual partners in a life time to be a high risk for HIV and other STIs. THis is important because it speaks to the increasing risk of the behaviors associated with sex. Alcohol and drugs use in conjuction with sex can lead to a good time, but can also lead to a time in the future of festering sores, blindness, and death.

Sex itself is not evil. It is fun, exciting, and a deep expression of love. Sharing a deep expression of live with someone whose name you can not remember just devalues yourself and the other person.

It is something to protect and enjoy.
m_furquan36
No cant do... religeos restraints!!!

I just recently started thinking about it, and when i asked various scholars of islam, they denied sex before marriage, and sed that it is only after marriage that sex is allowed in islam... otherwise i dont think there is any reason to NOT have sex beforre marriage!
Sebaci
Sex shouldn't be just for pleasure. It should be gesture of love. People forget about it. I don't know how in your countrys, but in Poland it's not imaginable that a person like me, in my age (I'm 15) would have a sex
Animal
thpn wrote:
Alright, this is getting out-of-line. You are all going to Hell by not seeing that you are Gods people and, no matter how ... long ago it was written, the Bible is still God's Word and we should still follow it. Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other. So...
MODERATORS, PLEASE DELETE THIS TOPIC!


In response to the edited first post by the topic author, I have decided not to close this topic. The way in which the close-request was made was completely wrong - if there is a topic you wish closed or moved, please send any moderator a PM and give good reasons for closing it. However, I have removed a large number of off-topic posts where there was a complete tangent to this topic, and some of the comments were clearly inflammatory. Please keep replies on-topic (that would be "sex before marriage") and if you have other, un-related comments to make about religious beliefs or other practices, please search the forums and make your point in an appropriate topic.
Shike
Sebaci wrote:
Sex shouldn't be just for pleasure. It should be gesture of love. People forget about it. I don't know how in your countrys, but in Poland it's not imaginable that a person like me, in my age (I'm 15) would have a sex


Sebaci, I actually agree with you. In the US, sex has had a large number of meanings placed on it that it shouldn't have. One of which, is when a boy looses his virginity he becomes a man. It is this way of thinking, on top of the puritinistic way of thinking about sex, that causes such a stir in the US.

Sex, until christianity spread world wide, wasn't viewed, generally, in a negative light. It is when it is associated with things like sin that it becomes a problem. Then, when those "sins" are viewed in a way that makes the act something that should be done, it confuses people.

Now I'm not trying to degrade Christianity, it has many positive qualities, but I do belive that it's view on certain subjects, one of which is sex, has caused more problems than it has solved.

When something becomes a "big deal" or "Hot Topic" then just about everyone has an opinion on it. When something just kind of floats in the back ground, then it becomes less of a problem.
udaykamboj
I agree to quite an extent actually... sex should be limited with people you really care and love..... hence one should atleast try to hold till marriage
sangharsha
This all depends upon where u r.


U know, human sentiments are not universal. Culture and Values define the way human socializes its instincts.



Thats the way it is.

where u are, when u r.
dyrtyrice
Sex before marriage isn't even debateable. Regardless of religion, marriage is neither sacred no really religiously linked. It's a union sanctioned by the state and has very little do with any real commitment or anything else.
Whong
dyrtyrice wrote:
It's a union sanctioned by the state and has very little do with any real commitment or anything else.


In earlier day marriage was a real commitment, the husband and wife where truly commited to each other so there goes your theory! Laughing

Marriage is a holy thing that God has made for humans, so let us enjoy it!
amicalindia
Josso wrote:
No offense but - bull****

People should be able to do what they want


Does that mean 'anything'?
Well I think they are not free to engage in incest, child sex, pornography and lot many other things. It is against the law and land them in jail. And remember that the laws are aimed at betterment of society.
Similarly, in ancient times certain moral code of conduct was formed aimed at maintaining moral standards of society. Sex within wedlock is one of them. It helped to avoid inheritance disputes, quarrels between males for a female as we witness in animals, division of work in household etc. It become a sort of law afterward and included as religious practice / principle to ensure its compliance. And it has helped to develop current civilization as we can see.

So let it remain as it is. Dont change it just to get pleasure for a few moments.
dragonflame
ThatCrazyGuy wrote:
As my father once said "Getting married is like buying a car, you don't sign the papers until you've taken it for a test drive". I would have to say that sex before marriage is almost needed. If you're not compatible in the bedroom, it will put a strain on the rest of your relationship, eventually erroding away at the other things that may be keeping you together. I can say this from expierence. As my wife and I's sex life went downhill, so has the rest of our relationship.It has taken time, 6 years, to get to it's lowest point, but it can and does happen.

~Crazy


I agree with this one the most. Those that advocate no sex before marriage probably havent been married. It takes a lot of preparation and chemistry to make a marriage work.
Whong
dragonflame wrote:
ThatCrazyGuy wrote:
As my father once said "Getting married is like buying a car, you don't sign the papers until you've taken it for a test drive". I would have to say that sex before marriage is almost needed. If you're not compatible in the bedroom, it will put a strain on the rest of your relationship, eventually erroding away at the other things that may be keeping you together. I can say this from expierence. As my wife and I's sex life went downhill, so has the rest of our relationship.It has taken time, 6 years, to get to it's lowest point, but it can and does happen.

~Crazy


I agree with this one the most. Those that advocate no sex before marriage probably havent been married. It takes a lot of preparation and chemistry to make a marriage work.


I disagree
A marriage will only last happily if you put God i the center of focus. Only by God's blessing a marriage will last! Laughing
In India the parents choose with whom their children will get marriede. That's one reason also why there are so much less divorcess in India and Asia!

Marriage is a Holy thing, so treat it as a Holy thing and your partner by waiting untill the wedding night! You will have much more pleasure in having sex on the wedding night than if you already had it before. By doing so you honor your parents and family, your partner, your partners family and your self! Idea
dark_lard
Wow, what a topic and those are some interesting replies.

Sex before marriage is a sin. That's a fact, although you probably won't care unless you're a Jew or a Christian. Someone kept continually asking where in the bible it is stated and I feel that you never got a clear answer but there was a lot of fun catholic mumbo jumbo in there! And while pretty much correct it didn't directly and concisely answer your question.

(Exo 20:14 KJV) Thou shalt not commit adultery.

What is adultery?
Here is the Hebrew definition of the word they use.
H5003
נאף
nâ'aph
naw-af'
A primitive root; to commit adultery; figuratively to apostatize: - adulterer (-ess), commit (-ing) adultery, woman that breaketh wedlock.

Well that doesn't help much. Does it? the word is used 17 times in the old testament and they all use the same Hebrew word. If you include the variations of adultery it appears 34 times and all variations reference back to this diffinition. Unfortunately we're now defining a word with the word itself. So let us use Webster’s dictionary, the original, which was based mostly off of the bible to get the definitions of words in our English language.


Quote:
Adultery
ADUL'TERY, n. [L. adulterium. See Adulterate.]

1. Violation of the marriage bed; a crime, or a civil injury, which introduces, or may introduce, into a family, a spurious offspring.

By the laws of Connecticut, the sexual intercourse of any man, with a married woman, is the crime of adultery in both: such intercourse of a married man, with an unmarried woman, is fornication in both, and adultery of the man, within the meaning of the law respecting divorce; but not a felonious adultery in either, or the crime of adultery at common law, or by statute. This latter offense is, in England, proceeded with only in the ecclesiastical courts.

In common usage, adultery means the unfaithfulness of any married person to the marriage bed. In England, Parliament grant absolute divorces for infidelity to the marriage bed in either party; and the spiritual courts divorce a mensa et thoro.

2. In a scriptural sense, all manner of lewdness or unchastity, as in the seventh commandment.

3. In scripture, idolatry, or apostasy from the true God. Jer 3.

4. In old laws, the fine and penalty imposed for the offense of adultery.

5. In ecclesiastical affairs, the intrusion of a person into a bishopric, during the life of the bishop.

6. Among ancient naturalists, the grafting of trees was called adultery, being considered as an unnatural union.


Hmm he seems to think that in a scriptural sense it would include lewdness and unchastity. Just so we are clear on what he means by that.
Quote:
Lewdness
LEWD'NESS, n.

1. The unlawful indulgence of lust; fornication, or adultery.

2. In Scripture, it generally denotes idolatry.

3. Licentiousness; shamelessness.

Unchastity
UNCHAS'TITY, n. Incontinence; lewdness; unlawful indulgence of the sexual appetite.


And in case you were wondering the new testament is about the same.
Quote:
G3429
μοιχάω
moichaō
Thayer Definition:
1) to have unlawful intercourse with another’s wife, to commit adultery with
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3432
Citing in TDNT: 4:729, 605

and
Quote:
G3431
μοιχεύω
moicheuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to commit adultery
1a) to be an adulterer
1b) to commit adultery with, have unlawful intercourse with another’s wife
1c) of the wife: to suffer adultery, be debauched
1d) A Hebrew idiom, the word is used of those who at a woman’s solicitation are drawn away to idolatry, i.e. to the eating of things sacrificed to idols
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3432
Citing in TDNT: 4:729, 605


So you can still take from that what you will. In short I believe that adultery is any sexual act with another human outside the confines of marriage. That would include man/woman with another married man/woman or where both parties are unmarried. Since there is no bond of marriage between the two involved.

And in case you're wondering I get some, I'm married and my wife is the only woman I've ever been with. Then again I got married at 22 and we also now have a kid I’m 23 now. So I didn't wait so long like many do, but that is still 8 - 6 years longer than the Jews did back in the day.
veroniap
Monotheistic religions do consider indeed sex before marriage as a sin. I personally agree, but then again, I'm a Christian. I think one of the great mistakes of modern times has been to separate sexual intercourse from its fundamental goal, which is to have children within the marriage. This separation has allowed sex to be turned solely into a source of pleasure. In addition, contraception permits now to have derive pleasure without uncomfortable consequences.
simpleHalakhah
veroniap wrote:
Monotheistic religions do consider indeed sex before marriage as a sin. I personally agree, but then again, I'm a Christian. I think one of the great mistakes of modern times has been to separate sexual intercourse from its fundamental goal, which is to have children within the marriage. This separation has allowed sex to be turned solely into a source of pleasure. In addition, contraception permits now to have derive pleasure without uncomfortable consequences.


I missed something. Since contraception exists, shouldn't your conservative claim be that sex is about love or shared pleasure in which neither party relates to the other as an object (Kant)?
Trapper
Yes, sex before marriage is wrong, and so is lusting after another woman (or man), cheating on your spouse in marriage, etc.

The physical act of cheating will hurt your spouse more than anything. The act of lusting also hurts, but more your conscience and when Christ is in you, it is much easier and natural to stay commited and loving to your wife.

In short, we all should try to live a clean and christ filled life, but for those of you living in sin (unmarried or perhaps divorced), you can take comfort knowing that Christ died for all our sins and even these sins can be washed away. We have been instructed to "Go and Sin no more." but as our flesh is weak, understand that those sins can be washed away again and again. If you are truly penitent and have the spirit of Christ in you, you will find that your walk will become better every day. Granted we all stumble, but most of all do what you can to please God.
Trapper
I believe you can find out a lot about the person you are dating and going to marry just from dating. Everything from how they touch you to how they are attentive to you and, yes, kiss. Furthermore, there will be times when you are tempted beyond the point of control and somehow God will give you the strength to wait.

The wait is worth it!! I dated dozens of girls before I found the right one at 30. Many and all of them were loving and kind women. Sometimes I broke it off, other times they did, but in all cases I understood they were not the one for me. Then when I found the right one, it was as clear as anything had ever been in my life.

All the prayers to God that he would please make things work so that I could marry this girl or perhaps the one after that...they always seemed right for a while, I am so glad they were unanswered. Because, he was waiting for me to meet the girl that will be my partner for life. From the day I first laid eyes on her to today, I am amazed at how God knew what was right for me and why she was right for me.

In every way. We love the same things. She is the world's best lover.
She is the mother of our four (going on five) children. The list goes on and on.

Those of you who thing you have to "try before you buy" are only cheating yourself and your future spouse. Take it for what it's worth.
Whong
I completely agree with Trapper, wait is worth it, belive me! Though you may feel like doing it, don't wait for the night, the wedding night, its worth! Laughing
HoboPelican
Wow....What a great topic.

My 2 cents.
What does marriage mean to you? Civil wedding? Wedding in a church? Any church? Common law Marriage? Gay marriage? It's really pointless to debate the question unless you agree on the definitions.

Anecdotal stories of how you did or didn't have sex before marriage and that that was the best thing are great, but it really only points out how different the human experience can be and that maybe, sin and religions aside, everyone needs to find their own way.

I'm not even convinced that sex should only happen with deep love involved. I personally think sex without love is just not worth the physical effort, but if both partners know it's just sex, I don't see the problem.

Of course, if your religion says it's wrong, then you shouldn't do it. But you shoudn't force that belief on others. What you should do is convert them, then they have a reason to follow your beliefs.
thpn
Marston wrote:
This is silly. No, you don't become infertile - unless you don't get the STD treated. Yes, you can get STD's from a married partner, how does marriage protect you from that?

People should go at it whenever, and where ever they want.


Actually, if no one had sex outside of marriage and never got to know the person through marriage then their partner could be carrying a disease and they don't know. They have sex and then it has spread. If sex was only in marriage after the couple has had time to discuss everything then the STDs in general would have nver grown to what it is today.
Bondings
thpn wrote:
Marston wrote:
This is silly. No, you don't become infertile - unless you don't get the STD treated. Yes, you can get STD's from a married partner, how does marriage protect you from that?

People should go at it whenever, and where ever they want.


Actually, if no one had sex outside of marriage and never got to know the person through marriage then their partner could be carrying a disease and they don't know. They have sex and then it has spread. If sex was only in marriage after the couple has had time to discuss everything then the STDs in general would have nver grown to what it is today.

You can also get those diseases in other ways, of course it doesn't happen so often, but it does and more than you think. Also, a lot of people divorce and marry again, that's another way to get it.

If everyone would use condoms, then diseases like aids wouldn't exist. Even if the protection isn't perfect, the exponential rate is stopped and there wouldn't be any new infections, if at all after just a few years.

By the way, in western countries aids is rather transmitted by people having only a few sexual partners during their lifes because they think they are secure because of that, while people having a lot of partners use condoms most of the time.
thpn
Bondings wrote:

If everyone would use condoms, then diseases like aids wouldn't exist. Even if the protection isn't perfect, the exponential rate is stopped and there wouldn't be any new infections, if at all after just a few years.

By the way, in western countries aids is rather transmitted by people having only a few sexual partners during their lifes because they think they are secure because of that, while people having a lot of partners use condoms most of the time.


I'd hate to disagree with the 'big man (or woman)', but condoms don't work against the most deadly/common STDs like AIDs and Genital Herpies. Also, I want to go back to the begining, I said that if they would have never touched in the private area they would have no STDs spread, no child with the STD by the mother, and it would have never spread. It couldn't hurt if one person had an STD and gave her life/sexuality to ensure the rest of the world could be safe. It is being greedy to trick someone into it and spreding the STD you have because you want to fufil your sexual disire.
a_dubDesign
thpn wrote:

I'd hate to disagree with the 'big man (or woman)', but condoms don't work against the most deadly/common STDs like AIDs and Genital Herpies.

When you make a claim that goes against everything that everyone else says you need to attach a source or it looks like you are just talking out of your butt.
HoboPelican
a_dubDesign wrote:
thpn wrote:

I'd hate to disagree with the 'big man (or woman)', but condoms don't work against the most deadly/common STDs like AIDs and Genital Herpies.

When you make a claim that goes against everything that everyone else says you need to attach a source or it looks like you are just talking out of your butt.


True, very true. I, for one, immediately thought his butt was talking
Smile

Seriously, if you make a statement like that, you need to quote references or else you just look like a loon. Please give a creditable reference for that statement.
Slammer
What really annoys me about some people posting in this thread is how they are FORCING their beliefs on people.

People are going out their way to share their personal experiences with everyone, and then you get replys about how WRONG that was what they did, how that is a HUGE sin etc etc. Yes thats what you believe, doesn't make it wrong for them.

What i believe, plain and simply, its up to the 2 people. NO ONE else has the right to judge them, if they want to do something together, and both agree on it, so be it. I personally dont believe in religions etc, and i dont think i am a bad person for that. I believe in doing good and looking after the ones that i love, thats all that matters to me, not some fictional god somewhere.

Believe what you will, but please dont force it on others.
Whong
Slammer wrote:
What really annoys me about some people posting in this thread is how they are FORCING their beliefs on people.

People are going out their way to share their personal experiences with everyone, and then you get replys about how WRONG that was what they did, how that is a HUGE sin etc etc. Yes thats what you believe, doesn't make it wrong for them.

What i believe, plain and simply, its up to the 2 people. NO ONE else has the right to judge them, if they want to do something together, and both agree on it, so be it. I personally dont believe in religions etc, and i dont think i am a bad person for that. I believe in doing good and looking after the ones that i love, thats all that matters to me, not some fictional god somewhere.

Believe what you will, but please dont force it on others.


I have no right to jugde, God has and it is His job if needed! I will not condem anyone for I am not perfect, but God has the power and the right to do it!
I just tell what I believe is right, it's up to you to either agree or disagree.
Do as you will! I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone though it my sometimes sound like that, it is your choice to choose, not my! Laughing

Have a Nice Day! Wink
HoboPelican
This is a question to those who say sex before marriage is wrong because of religious teachings, feeling, texts, etc.

How do you feel about:
a) sex in common-in-law marriages.
b) sex in marriages solemnized by other religions.
Arnie
The problem is, Slammer, that if you believe in one absolute moral entity, there are no possible alternatives. To be a sincere believer I'd even expect such people not to acknowledge 'other truths'. That wouldn't make sense. So, you cannot accuse people of FORCING their beliefs on you, if they simply speak about absolute morals.

Yes, there is free will, but people will have to go a lot further than what they're doing here to deny you that. Just telling you something is not denying your free will. Even if there are absolute morals, you still have the choice whether or not to obey them.

The idea I often get when I hear people shouting about 'forcing beliefs' is that they simply don't like someone who is very convinced of something. The modern opinion usually centers "everyone has his own truth".
totax
Sex is a thing that God Maked for the marriage....


But we can be forgivent tooo...Very Happy

Im so Glad That God is a God "father"

God Bless!
amirkpe
sex is not for married ... marriage is sth more than having sex but in some cases cause of the marriage is to having sex. this is something that goin to ruin the society ...
totax
amirkpe wrote:
sex is not for married ... marriage is sth more than having sex but in some cases cause of the marriage is to having sex. this is something that goin to ruin the society ...


God Created sex for marriage....But when you marry then it shoud be some to share our life with....
Sex is The Most Intim between to people....
simp
sex before marriage is good, better than any sex you'll get afer putting the ring through our own nose.

sex instead of marriage is best.
picsite
Take this question one step back....is masturbating a form of sex in your context? If so then i'm sure that many have done it so they are having sex before marriage..... However, if its not part of sex then i believe that one should wait after marriage.
Whong
simp wrote:
sex before marriage is good, better than any sex you'll get afer putting the ring through our own nose.

sex instead of marriage is best.


Just about a 100 years ago having sex before you were marriade was a serious crime and a shameful act, so it should be today!

What was wrong a 100 years ago is defenitely wrong today and even after a 100 years!

Sex is a thing between two people who are life partners and I don't see why people can't wait! People should respect each other and their parents in a situation like this! Idea
a_dubDesign
Whong wrote:
Just about a 100 years ago having sex before you were marriade was a serious crime and a shameful act, so it should be today!

ok, ignoring the shameful act bit, but where did you hear it was a serious crime 100 years ago? I've looked through a total of 6 pages of Google results for premartial sex law, sex before marriage law, and premarital sex crime and got nothing.
UlrikeSE
a_dubDesign wrote:
Whong wrote:
Just about a 100 years ago having sex before you were marriade was a serious crime and a shameful act, so it should be today!

ok, ignoring the shameful act bit, but where did you hear it was a serious crime 100 years ago? I've looked through a total of 6 pages of Google results for premartial sex law, sex before marriage law, and premarital sex crime and got nothing.


I wouldn't imagine it something written purely in law. Small towns with small communities have been known to, and are still known to fall just short of banishment of a knocked-up girl. These same small communites tend to bring the law into their own hands as well. Religious communities for example, would send the the transgressors to reprogramming camps, "rehabilitation" they might call it, or just send them off to stifle the outrage.

Small communities is all we used to have. Even in cities of many people, we devide into small communities.

Shame is an understatement though. Having everyone you ever know deny your existance as a valid one, or something lower, is harsher then any corporal punishment. You don't need to wear a scarlet letter like the past, to be a scarlet lettered woman.
a_dubDesign
UlrikeSE wrote:
I wouldn't imagine it something written purely in law. Small towns with small communities have been known to, and are still known to fall just short of banishment of a knocked-up girl. These same small communites tend to bring the law into their own hands as well. Religious communities for example, would send the the transgressors to reprogramming camps, "rehabilitation" they might call it, or just send them off to stifle the outrage.

Small communities is all we used to have. Even in cities of many people, we devide into small communities.

Shame is an understatement though. Having everyone you ever know deny your existance as a valid one, or something lower, is harsher then any corporal punishment. You don't need to wear a scarlet letter like the past, to be a scarlet lettered woman.

You make very valid points for the shameful acts, but still not a law.

Definetly agreed on that last paragraph. And its beyond messed up that crap like that happens.
HoboPelican
UlrikeSE wrote:
a_dubDesign wrote:
Whong wrote:
Just about a 100 years ago having sex before you were marriade was a serious crime and a shameful act, so it should be today!

ok, ignoring the shameful act bit, but where did you hear it was a serious crime 100 years ago? I've looked through a total of 6 pages of Google results for premartial sex law, sex before marriage law, and premarital sex crime and got nothing.


I wouldn't imagine it something written purely in law. Small towns with small communities have been known to, and are still known to fall just short of banishment of a knocked-up girl. These same small communites tend to bring the law into their own hands as well. Religious communities for example, would send the the transgressors to reprogramming camps, "rehabilitation" they might call it, or just send them off to stifle the outrage.


Well, the reply was directed to Whong's statement of "crime". I think that implies a law.

My question to Whong is why a past stigma on premarital sex should imply it should be so today? Things change all the time, some good some bad. But to state that because it was so 100 yrs ago it should be true today doesn't make sense.
UlrikeSE
With all due respect, I rarely read threads. I find it far more interesting to read the last few responses and comment on them.

I know, what a bastard.

As for the nature of "laws", it's sort of shaky idea in my noodle. You could write down on a piece of paper that a worm will be the king of all creatures and that everyone should know so, and abide by his rule. You'd stubbornly find out a few days later that it wasn't the worm who was chomping on the wildebeast herd. You dig? Laws are only laws if people want them to be, and it's those same people who can change the word "law" to "nonsense" in a heartbeat. Twisted Evil
Mannix
According to the Torah, Bible, and Koran sex outside of marriage is a sin. Being a christian, this is my belief. If you don't share my belief, that's your decision, I'm not "forcing" it on you(Though you are a sinner in my eyes(not to say I'm free of sin)). With sex outside of marriage comes risks, highest among them are STD's and unplanned pregnacy(assuming that when you get married, you are more able to raise a child). If you wait til marriage, then you can have intercourse sin free in the eyes of the judaic, christian, and muslim religions(not to mention you won't have to worry about an STD if your partner also waited until marriage). As far as laws, I don't believe we should have any restricting sexual intercourse(on the grounds that people should be free to do what they want outside of the public sphere). There are some countries(like saudi arabia) where you can still be stoned in the street for being an adulterer(more commonly, an adulteress) they're out there, but that's not to say they should be followed.
Whong
HoboPelican wrote:
UlrikeSE wrote:
a_dubDesign wrote:
Whong wrote:
Just about a 100 years ago having sex before you were marriade was a serious crime and a shameful act, so it should be today!

ok, ignoring the shameful act bit, but where did you hear it was a serious crime 100 years ago? I've looked through a total of 6 pages of Google results for premartial sex law, sex before marriage law, and premarital sex crime and got nothing.


I wouldn't imagine it something written purely in law. Small towns with small communities have been known to, and are still known to fall just short of banishment of a knocked-up girl. These same small communites tend to bring the law into their own hands as well. Religious communities for example, would send the the transgressors to reprogramming camps, "rehabilitation" they might call it, or just send them off to stifle the outrage.


Well, the reply was directed to Whong's statement of "crime". I think that implies a law.

My question to Whong is why a past stigma on premarital sex should imply it should be so today? Things change all the time, some good some bad. But to state that because it was so 100 yrs ago it should be true today doesn't make sense.


Well, to answer your question, lets say that well, killing someone has been wrong forever, but if it was suddenly told that killing is not wrong would that make it right? Same thing with sex before marriage, it isn't considered wrong now a days, but it doesn't mean that it isn't wrong. Why would people 100 years ago say that it was wrong if it wasn't?

The main reason why God made sexual intercourse for us is to be fruitful and multiply, that is to have sex in order to get children and so populate the world! That is why sex was made! If God didn't intend people to multiply there wouldn't be any women on earth! (No offence meant by this!)

Marriage is a comitment to be together and so raise children so that they can have both a mother and a father!

Idea
Simulator
Why don’t we just get back to basics here for a second, and answer a more important question, Why is sex before marriage not permitted?

Don’t want to get into another da Vinci code discussion here, but if Mary Magdalene was a prostitute, why would Jesus go near her? Is that not a subliminal message that sex before marriage is permitted?
Whong
Simulator wrote:
Why don’t we just get back to basics here for a second, and answer a more important question, Why is sex before marriage not permitted?

Don’t want to get into another da Vinci code discussion here, but if Mary Magdalene was a prostitute, why would Jesus go near her? Is that not a subliminal message that sex before marriage is permitted?


Jesus never had sex in His life time. He was perfect, and Jesus went to the sinners and the prostitutes and the taxcollectors because it is the sick that need healing! He went to those who needed Him!

He stayed away from Pharasies because they didn't see their sins, but these sinners to whom Jesus went understood that they were sinful and filthy!

Jesus went to those who needed Him and thats why He went to Mary Magdalene, to tell her the good news, not to have sex with her!

Don't ever think about Jesus having sex, He was perfect, unlike we here! Laughing Wink Idea
Simulator
I never said he did, but what about Adam and Eve? They had 2 sons, and I never heard wedding bells there....
Whong
Simulator wrote:
I never said he did, but what about Adam and Eve? They had 2 sons, and I never heard wedding bells there....


Listen now there, at the begining there wasn't anything called marriage, it has come much much later!

I don't know all of the facts of it but I know that sex before marriage is wrong! Idea
Simulator
Whong wrote:
Simulator wrote:
I never said he did, but what about Adam and Eve? They had 2 sons, and I never heard wedding bells there....


Listen now there, at the begining there wasn't anything called marriage, it has come much much later!

I don't know all of the facts of it but I know that sex before marriage is wrong! Idea



Well so is discrimination because of race, but yet there used to be laws saying that you had to....
Whong
Simulator wrote:
Whong wrote:
Simulator wrote:
I never said he did, but what about Adam and Eve? They had 2 sons, and I never heard wedding bells there....


Listen now there, at the begining there wasn't anything called marriage, it has come much much later!

I don't know all of the facts of it but I know that sex before marriage is wrong! Idea



Well so is discrimination because of race, but yet there used to be laws saying that you had to....


Well this issue is a thing that can't really be discussed because we all have our own beliefs! Do as you wish, but remember these words if you are ever to be blamed for that!

"It is meture for a man to say "No Exclamation " to the temptations that he will face!" Wink Idea
Simulator
Whong wrote:
Simulator wrote:
Whong wrote:
Simulator wrote:
I never said he did, but what about Adam and Eve? They had 2 sons, and I never heard wedding bells there....


Listen now there, at the begining there wasn't anything called marriage, it has come much much later!

I don't know all of the facts of it but I know that sex before marriage is wrong! Idea



Well so is discrimination because of race, but yet there used to be laws saying that you had to....


Well this issue is a thing that can't really be discussed because we all have our own beliefs! Do as you wish, but remember these words if you are ever to be blamed for that!

"It is meture for a man to say "No Exclamation " to the temptations that he will face!" Wink Idea


It can be, I just still don't see the point in why you should wait till you get married, or at that, get married at all
a_dubDesign
Whong wrote:
Well, to answer your question, lets say that well, killing someone has been wrong forever, but if it was suddenly told that killing is not wrong would that make it right? Same thing with sex before marriage, it isn't considered wrong now a days, but it doesn't mean that it isn't wrong. Why would people 100 years ago say that it was wrong if it wasn't?

And why would people up to 100 years ago say that slavery was right when we say now it isn't?
Simulator
a_dubDesign wrote:
Whong wrote:
Well, to answer your question, lets say that well, killing someone has been wrong forever, but if it was suddenly told that killing is not wrong would that make it right? Same thing with sex before marriage, it isn't considered wrong now a days, but it doesn't mean that it isn't wrong. Why would people 100 years ago say that it was wrong if it wasn't?

And why would people up to 100 years ago say that slavery was right when we say now it isn't?


That’s my point exactly, and Jesus Apparently broke Jewish law a lot….. so why not?
richie6963
Confused I understand the religious/philisophical debate going on here but I wanted to add a simple fact. There is a lot more to history than stated in any 1 book. If that cannot in itself be debated either way, than the whole subject in discussion is false, and reality checks need to be made. Ethics are a question of Judgement and I can find unethical references in any one testament of religion. I do not classify myself as an expert, but want to point out the flaw of actually comparing killing to sex before marriage. Anyone who cannot see the evident line between the two subjects is clearly out of line, and would be frowned upon by any religious leader, irregardless.
dyrtyrice
Sex after marriage is a terrible idea. Sex can both be about pleasure or love and many people that decide they will wait until they are married will end up marrying in haste so that they can experience sex.
the_mariska
I don't know why all the people keep discussing this topic the same way. Most of us still think that the Church is against sex before marriage because it was invented by a nasty priest who wanted to take away from the people the joy that was forbidden for him. Or that the Church teaches us that sex is evil but necessary for the reproduction. That is why I will give a few words from the Catholic point of view.

A couple of thoughts:
1. Everything that God created, He considered as good (the humans even very good). So our sexuality, which is an integral part of our nature. I would even tell that even the most wonderful one, of course if used with distinction and true love.

2. God would not set up any rules if they weren't to protect us. He really is not like human and does not want to be obeyed for the cause itself. Every law or rule He introduces is for our own good, to protect us from our egoism and consequences of our egoistic behaviour. The same is about sex before marriage.

3. Sex is the strongest and the most involving form of demonstrating love. The true love, inity, the only one and done once and for all. And a marriage is exactly a form of declaration of such love, when people decide to spend the rest of their lifes together, no matter what would happen. Of course, I don't mean that couples before the marriage don't love each other. Sure they do. But there is no promise of eternal love between them. When they say 'I love you' it means 'I love you in this particular moment of my life. I don't know what would happen in the future or if I will be even able to resist you, but now I love you'. That is why I think that until that very decision one has no right for his/her partner's body, because they don't belong to each other yet. Only after your partner decides to be truly (which means also forever) yours, he is yours, with his/her spirit an body.

4. I know this somehow at my own case. I'm with my boyfriend for 9 months and something. Before we met, he wanted to become a priest (I'm not 100% sure if he doesn't want still, I could be only after the marriage). There were many moments that I wanted him very much, but I realised that I don't know if he would ever be mine, or rather decide to live for the God. I knew that if he ever in the future decided to become a priest, having sex with him would do a lot of harm to him. It took me a lot of time to realise, that even if he didn't decide so, he still isn't mine until he takes this very decision. That means until the marriage. (The story ends that, he promised that he would not leave me and go for a priest. Unless I leave him myself. I'm not sure if I don't. If I were, I would decide to marry him as soon as possible Wink )

This was only a couple of posts, as I have a few more points in my mind to add. Maybe another time Very Happy
wannabdoc
Diebels wrote:
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts.


There is no reasen to getmarried when you really love each other. And in the case you want to split up you do it anyway, if married or not.
Thats my opinion Wink

doesnt make sense there. you are degrading the institution of marriage. if you really love each other, isnt that reason enough to get married? u mean you dont marry the one you love? puzzling.
wannabdoc
dyrtyrice wrote:
Sex after marriage is a terrible idea. Sex can both be about pleasure or love and many people that decide they will wait until they are married will end up marrying in haste so that they can experience sex.

disagree. just shows immaturity and lack of self control if a couple chooses to get married just to experience sex. hope it isnt you.
Ryan Marcus
I'm not going to get too into this thread, but I would just like to put out some information a blogged a while ago:

http://marcusfamily.info/~ryan/blog/?p=110

If you want to have this discussion, you need to define what sex is, when it is OK, and if you say "love", then you need to define that as well.
HoboPelican
Ryan Marcus wrote:
I'm not going to get too into this thread, but I would just like to put out some information a blogged a while ago:

http://marcusfamily.info/~ryan/blog/?p=110

If you want to have this discussion, you need to define what sex is, when it is OK, and if you say "love", then you need to define that as well.


Man, I don't want to read your blog Laughing You should of copied and pasted anything relavent.

Lordy, but do we REALLY need to define sex here? I know there are lots of variations, but I'm willing to bet most people here are just lumping them all for this discussion.
Trapper
It's really quite simple. Sex is a gift from God that you will get to share with your wife. And, 'No', sex is not the reason to get married. That's just one of the many benefits.

The best is to share a life together (good and bad). It's not only great to have a partner to share the joys of life, but to have someone to help you through the low points together.

Furthermore, the sex is even great after a make-up or quarrel between the two of you, but certainly it's not a reason to get married. If it is, there is not much hope of happiness, other than to pray to God, that you'll be provided the path to follow Christ and together get back on the right track of living on this earth.

Sex in marriage is fantastic and especially not worrying about is your spouse contracted something or the long chain of partners that can branch out from just one person.

Wait and you'll be VERY happy you did!
druidbloke
Its funny how these things quickly become a religeous issue when it isnt at all, any christian or muslim should accept other people may live in a different way to them, you dont have the right to just say what you are doing is morally wrong,you can say that is what you believe, but have no right to accuse. If both people respect each other and are old enough and know what they are doing its no one elses business.
dexterius
This is not question of religion. If someone believes in something then he should do what he believes in. Apart from religion it is only a question of importance. Is sex so important in your life ?? Is marriage important to you? Then you have to choose. I personaly think that merriage is not so important (at least is not for me) in life of two people and sex is the same. Life is not about having the same name and sleeping with someone. But that only my view.
foodman
there is nothing wrong with haveing sex before marriage. its just a natural human bodly function. when the first people were around there was no "marriage" they just had sex because it was what they felt like doing. religion shouldnt have any thing do with it, i dont think that there is any holy book out there that says haveing sex is a passport to hell. its a pesonal choice to have it before marraige and its between the people haveing it and no one elses...
bgbg
thpn wrote:
Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other.


Well, the term "Holy Matronmony" implies an existance of some sort of higher entity (frequently refered as "god") which makes several things as 'holy', and much more things as 'dirty'. This is a key assumption in this issue, and by chance it happens to be a wrong one. Very wrong.
Sappho
wannabdoc wrote:
Diebels wrote:
thpn wrote:
Now, in my religion, Catholic, we beleive that sex before marriage is wrong. That God made sex to be for married couples only and that it is sinful to even dwell on sexual thoughts.


There is no reasen to getmarried when you really love each other. And in the case you want to split up you do it anyway, if married or not.
Thats my opinion Wink

doesnt make sense there. you are degrading the institution of marriage. if you really love each other, isnt that reason enough to get married? u mean you dont marry the one you love? puzzling.


He was saying that you dont need any institution to approve your love, marriage is just a formality, doesnt add anything and hence its not needed, you can live with the one you love without marrying and be happy.
The Conspirator
Marriage is a pointless archaic ritual that has far outlasted its need and usefulness. We need to abolish this outdated practice.
Sex is a natural part of human existence and it is only wrong when it promiscuous.
rocksta
hell no sex befor 16 is better as well Razz
im not waiting 2 get married and it is 2 late anyway but that is so lame
The Conspirator
Somethings I stupidly left out of my post.
Me wrote:
Sex is a natural part of human existence and it is only wrong when it promiscuous.

and with a child, animal, forced and so on.
HoboPelican
The Conspirator wrote:
Somethings I stupidly left out of my post.
Me wrote:
Sex is a natural part of human existence and it is only wrong when it promiscuous.

and with a child, animal, forced and so on.


Man, I just assumed that was part of what you meant! Although, I was a little fascinated that you think marriage should be abolished but that promiscuous sex was wrong. Seems just a bit odd to me. Probably just me. Smile
plantacja
I have to agree with Shike and Diebels on this one. I am european and i am Christian. If there is a god, why would he install this urge to have sex into us if he doesn't want us to follow that instinct until later on in life? So if people are never proposed to, God never want's them to have sex in their entire lifes? That isn't in cosistancy with so called "God's will" where he wishes humans enternal happyness. The bible was written by men after all, it didn't fall on someone's head from the sky.
Eating before marriage isn't a sin. Breathing air before marriag isn't a sin. Sleeping before marriage isn't a sin, why would sex be? It is one of those big needs installed in all humas. Isn't it possible that this is an ancient birth control system, there were no condoms those days and people had to do somthing on order to control how many babies were coming.
Denying yourself of this basic need doesn't lead you to salvation or make god like you more than he already does. But on the other hand, going across the limit is not good but the bible and it command lines are more like guidlines, not the LAW. Some people like an ancient script to be in charge of their lifes, i am not one of them.
HoboPelican
Just to play devil's advocate..
plantacja wrote:
If there is a god, why would he install this urge to have sex into us if he doesn't want us to follow that instinct until later on in life?

To test us is the typical answer.


I think it boils down to either accepting the bible and it's teaching or not. For believers to want non-believers to follow their "laws" before accepting Christ is a little like putting the cart before the horse. I could be wrong, but someone who hasn't accepted Christ and lives "well" (according to his teachings) still is denied Heaven. So it seems pointless to tell the "godless" to be chaste until marriage. Once they accept Christ, well, then you can try to get him to comply....

Just my two cents and I'm open to correction.[/quote]
CMA
My thoughts (note that some of this stuff might be a little offensive to religious people, but hey, I'm being honest here):

1- I'm an atheist, but about this "no sex before marriage rule"... Did "Adam" and "Eve" ever get married? I never read the Bible and I never heard anything about this, so please tell me.

2- I don't think sex before marriage is wrong. Sex, when with the right person, is a powerful expression of love, or otherwise it might still be something pleasurable if both of the involved agree to have sex. If you're with the person you want to marry with, is it still wrong to have sex before marriage? What if the couple doesn't want to get married, but simply live together? This is an increasingly common act nowadays, and I don't see what's wrong with it. Marriages cost money too. As sad as that might sound, it's the truth. I don't think "God" would forbid people from having sex just because they don't want/can't afford to have an official marriage.

3- The will to have sex is an instict, like that of animals, that tells you that you must reproduce to allow for the species to prevail. If "God" wanted us to reproduce, why would he give us the same instinct that other animals have but limit us with rules? Are animals sinners because they don't get married?

4- Masturbation is a natural act. For men, it also helps preventing prostate cancer. And because you're doing it to YOURSELF and not SOMEONE ELSE, it doesn't mean adultery. Did "God" want us all (or otherwise those not lucky enough to get married) to die from cancer? Also, when done to someone else, it can also be considered an expression of love and trust. It's part of our sexual behavior and shouldn't be seen as something unnatural.
schumway
being a new dad of a girl I would like to think of no sex before marriage but I know it will happen. No matter how we bring her up life is life.

I see what the kids do today vs what we grew up with and it gets worse and worse by the year. Last year there was a bunch of girls in highschool who performed oral sex on guys because "it wasnt really sex and everyone was doing it". On school buses (HUH????) in classrooms (HUH?????) and out at private parties.

the internet is a great thing but I think we have opened ourselves up to too much information some times.

I am not saying it is the fault of the internet, it is natural curiousity to see what is out there but there are some real sick puppies out there and I know that people have thought that if that many people are interested/doing/writing about it... it must be ok... vs the poor confused kid thinking he is the only one who likes sex with chickens or whatever. Too much information too easily found.

I do not know how I will deal with it in (I hope) another 16+ years... I just hope that she has the sense and upbringing that she will not be 10-12-14 whatever years old and pregnant. Still love her to pieces but so dissappointing how kids sometimes make decisions.

I am also into target shooting so I will ensure all boyfriends see me cleaning my gun collections when they come to pick her up.

I thought my friends were a little odd when they said they called the parents of their child's friends to introduce themselves and talk about what the kids are up to and etc... but the more I think about it the more I want to be involved in her life. And she is only 7mths!
The Conspirator
Quote:
Last year there was a bunch of girls in highschool who performed oral sex on guys because "it wasnt really sex and everyone was doing it". On school buses (HUH????) in classrooms (HUH?????) and out at private parties.

Ok this is off topic but I'll say it any ways.
Who stared this? Did Clinton start This? Where do people get this idea that oral sex is not real sex. Hell its called oral sex, that a clue right there that its real sex.

HoboPelican wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
Somethings I stupidly left out of my post.
Me wrote:
Sex is a natural part of human existence and it is only wrong when it promiscuous.

and with a child, animal, forced and so on.


Man, I just assumed that was part of what you meant! Although, I was a little fascinated that you think marriage should be abolished but that promiscuous sex was wrong. Seems just a bit odd to me. Probably just me. Smile

I must have missed this post.
Sex in and of it self isn't wrong, excess is, promiscuity is a form of excess.
HoboPelican
schumway wrote:
being a new dad of a girl I would like to think of no sex before marriage but I know it will happen. No matter how we bring her up life is life......


Schumway, all I gotta say is that if you keep that attitutue and sense of humor, that little girl is gonna be one lucky child.

I think back to what was going on in the world and my life in the 60s and 70s and I know my folks were struggling with how to handle my sisters and me. They let us screw up and showed us what we should be by example and eventually we all came back to normal. More or less Wink

Congrats on the baby girl, 7months late!
HoboPelican
The Conspirator wrote:
..
I must have missed this post.
Sex in and of it self isn't wrong, excess is, promiscuity is a form of excess.


Yeah, I actually tend to agree with you, although we "might" disagree on how much becomes promiscuity.

And I don't think the oral sex point is that far off topic. We gotta define terms right? I'm confused by this "oral sex isn't sex" thing, also. But it is not an uncommon thought amongst kids. I did a lot of work with college interns at my last job and there were a noticable number who didn't consider oral sex as sex. Go figure. I'm old, so I'd be intersted in hearing what some of the youg'uns think about this. I mean besides "yipee". Wink
dyrtyrice
[quote="thpn"]Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other.



Oh look another another arrogant christian telling others what to do. Btw, Gambon is a very inferior Dumbledore and Harris should have been replaced with Max Von Sydow, Ian Mckellen or Sir Peter O'Toole.
i-morgan
Personally for me - I'd rather wait for marriage. But I don't like to rant about it and for other people they can do whatever they want and believe whatever they want.
People are entitled to their own believes into what sex is. Some people think masturbating is sex… Some people believe anal isn’t sex…. Or oral -But whatever.

I suppose the line crosses when people try to force their values down our/their throats.

But when you get right down to it - the main idea of sex is not about love - the bond between two lovers... sex is about populating.
OutlawSpirit
thpn wrote:
Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other.



ye- sure.........

and for you lot to say 'sex is to show your expression for the one you love' well yes, i guess it is... but it's main intention is for breeding, animals do it for breeding when they need to.....

and also i say enjoyment

Cool

PEACE
swsource
Shike wrote:
I would have to disagree, to a point. I believe that a true emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marraige. It is in these moments that true life actualy reveals itself.


You can be emotionally connected to a teddybear. Emotional connection means a whole lot of nothing.

Marriage is the only suitable time when someone should be having sex for several reasons. God being not one of them (because he does not exist).

The first reason to refrain from sexual activity is that in many cases it's not safe. Even if you lecture me on your "emotional connection" with someone, odd's are if they gonna get laid they wont tell you a damn thing about who they slept with last week or the results of a little test they took 2 months ago. People are not trustworthy. Thats not be being bitter, thats me being realistic.

The second reason is jealousy. Spending your whole life doing "this and that" while not really being commited to anyone in the long term is stupid. Why? Because then you end up married to someone, with a past full of regrettable experiences that may have been enjoyable with someone you trust, but you shy away from things. I'll leave whatever these things may be to your imagination.

Thirdly, whats the point of marriage then? Being "stuck" with someone for the rest of your life is what it seems like to me. What makes the relationship so much more special if its not sex? And you cant say they are emotionally "closer" now because what about all those other people the person slept with, wouldnt they have to be this emotionally close to all of them? Now your marriage is just like any other relationship accept your stuck.

PS: People tend to ask for a topic to be closed when they are stupid and can't win an argument.
HoboPelican
swsource wrote:

The first reason to refrain from sexual activity is that in many cases it's not safe. ... People are not trustworthy. Thats not be being bitter, thats me being realistic.

The second reason is jealousy....then you end up married to someone, with a past full of regrettable experiences that may have been enjoyable with someone you trust, ...

Thirdly, whats the point of marriage then? Being "stuck" with someone for the rest of your life is what it seems like to me. What makes the relationship so much more special if its not sex? ... Now your marriage is just like any other relationship accept your stuck.


I disagree that that your points apply generally.

First - Actually, I DO think that is very bitter. Im gonna bet that I am a lot older (not wiser Wink , just older) than you and think there are many trustworthy people around. The trick is to recognize the difference.

Second - I slept with most of my girlfriends outside of marriage and I dont regret it at all. I don't think many people do. Each one, for me, was a moderately strong relationship. I did love them at the time and I wouldnt change a thing, with the possible exception of erasing my first wife from my memory.

Third - The point of marriage? Why would having sex before marriage change that? I think marriage should happen when you find the person you feel you can spend the rest of your life with. To that end, I think it is perfectly acceptable to try living together first.

I'm not saying that what works for me should be true for everyone, but I think you might be coming from a bad set of experiences that the rest of us didn't have.
JoeFriday
I'll agree with Hobo.. you seem very bitter, and either not very experienced in relationships, or just have some issues.. I'll leave it at that

but sex has very little to do with the emotional connection that should precede marriage.. and jealousy doesn't belong in a serious relationship at all.. trust overrides that.. the two emotions are (mostly) mutually exclusive.. if you don't trust someone, I'd recommend not marrying them

also, if you don't trust someone, I'd recommend not sleeping with them.. but there is something out there called "safe sex".. you can protect yourself 'just in case'

finally, I'll mention that the point of marriage is not specifically to have sex.. if that's what you think, you're going to be extremely disappointed after your wedding
HoboPelican
JoeFriday wrote:
...
finally, I'll mention that the point of marriage is not specifically to have sex.. if that's what you think, you're going to be extremely disappointed after your wedding


Your mileage will vary, but you are likely to find truth in the above statement! Laughing Laughing Laughing
werther
If you are against sex before marriage, then you shouldnt masturbate before you get your driver's license, watch any kind of adult movies before you get your working permit and hold hands with the opposite sex before your college diploma is signed appropriately by a notary public.

Yes, it is that silly.
schumway
just curious what masterbation has to do with a driver's license? LOL

I hope it isnt implying that before you get your license you can only masterbate as your parents drive you to the mall LOL
irsmart
Yes. This is the right answer. Smile
Sparmactro
Marriage is a lie. You can be marry "psicologicaly" with your mate, respecting her and all, without marring her in the church or goverment. Love is not to marry. and there is al ot of people that get divorce, thats why having sex before marry is ok, even if you dont plan to marry (like me)
kch0rr0
I think, that in this case there is no right or wrong, bcause since marriage is a part of a religion and there are so many in the world it can not be taken one idea as a fact. If you trully beleive in your religion then it's ok, however in my case, I'm not a true believer, and I think that sex has both physical and psychological elements. Many people feel better sex with someone they really love, others don't even fall in love in ther life but they do enjoy sex. So I think that if you are in a certain religion that tells you to wait for marriage, you should, because your mind thinks and believes that it is the right way, and you will enjoy it.
schumway
so if you are married by a justice of the peace... which is not religious... does that mean you are not married?
onydchic
Frankly, according to my religion, which is Cristianity, sex is a GIFT for married couples. So yes, i dont believe in sex before marriage. Honestly, from what ive seen it's gotten in the way of many relationships.

Some relationships are based solely upon "being great together in bed" an whatever, and i believe it clouds judgement. I have seen so many good guys or great girls being dumped for mere reasons as "she refused to sleep with me in a timely fashion"or something stupid.

These days sx has been given so much hype, people BELIEV that it has to be done before a relationship cn be said to be SERIOUS.
There re the psychological effects of it too! People feel miserable when they tend to engage in one night stands or sleep with someone that ended up hurting them cos they feel like they've lost soemthing. And I think they have.

Lets not forget the other physical issues that come along with premarital sex ie, unwanted prgenancies, stds and the likes.
I believe God knows what he was doing when he said we shouldnt do it before marriage, and in these modern times when premarital sex is moer highly rated than WAITING, we can see all the thigns that are going worng with our society.

And all that's religion aside. Basically, if u want to bring the bible into it, its just WRONG. It wont kill you to wait. And for those people that say that why God give us suchh a temptation, its a bit unfair to act like its the greatest temptation EVER. We're tempted to do all sorts of sins everyday. People lie more than they have sex, so what's the point???
ihatelowfatmilk
hilander
Well,,I agree with the sacrifice of waiting to have the right sex, but I would point another issue and is more women oriented..sex before marriage, believe it or not,,degrades women, and if it keeps happening like nowadays, Sex with women will be not the hype..Sex with men will be the hype...It happened a lot of times in history..remember the greeks ??well they dissapeared in part for this reason..sex before marriage...

I know it sounds kind of macho,,but I love my mother,,and seing her, with no sex appeal at all,,is kind of sad..imagine a girl of 25 years old,,with a sex background,,well it is more depriment,,..I wonder who would like to marry her...for what she is...That is what is happening in europe....no men thinks women are worth enoung to sign a contract....And, please,,stop arguing that love is more sincere with no contracts,,that is a great lie,,Love is a desision to stay with her for the rest of your life,,no matter what...That is why you should think four times before you get married and sign a contract before God and the witnesses...
tqboard
oh, dear, i love sex before merriage
Mouldylocks
I wonder why sex before marriga eis so wrong. Ear sex is wrong. Seriously, people do some twisted stuff while they could be just having plain good old sex under the eyes of The Lord.
God bless rock n'roll!
Mannix
A marriage should last a lifetime. .... ...That said, incredible trust and commitment is required. Why would anyone be so horrible as to cheat on their future spouse? Don't they realize they're polluting that essential trust that could otherwise envelop two lovers? Two parents?

When you've run out of lead in your pencil, and your bones, muscle and skin tire, and your heart yearns for something ever more precious than lust, will the trust be there? The commitment? The life partner?

When you become older, and need each other to carry on, and need that trust to survive, I think folks will value the commitments to the sanctity of marriage.
thpn
I'm just wondering. Who here has changed their opinions any?

I know over time that some things can happen to make you see in a new light. Has that happened to any of you? Or are you all still stuck with your same old mindsets.

I know I have changed mine...
psydevil
i dont belive in marriage, i think to show your love and appreciation is not necessary to invest in marriage, love is a feeling!!! Smile
Whong
psydevil wrote:
i dont belive in marriage, i think to show your love and appreciation is not necessary to invest in marriage, love is a feeling!!! Smile


And love comes from God! Marriage was God's invention and truly marriage is a beautiful thing.
Kitten Kong
I'll tell you the reason that we have so many divorces, its because people have no choice but to get married, the biological urge to have sex is great and cannot be ignored, especially for young people. So they go and marry the first member of the opposite sex who will spend any time with them, they are too young to know what they want.

All these religious rules forbidding sex out of marriage were made in an age of no contraception, where if you had sex with someone a baby was practically inevitable. Now i agree that you can't go around making babies everywhere you go, women sleeping with many men and not knowing who the father is creates problems. But these problems don't have to exist anymore, wear a condom, use the pill and you are free to experience the wonder of the opposite sex with anyone who will let you.

Sex is perfectly natural, perfectly beautiful and should not be stigmatized, and we should drop all these archaic religion based rules and replace them with human based rules.

And I should know too, I was married at 18 and divorced at 20.
studsstudio
Shike wrote:
I would have to disagree, to a point. I believe that a true emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marraige. It is in these moments that true life actualy reveals itself.


I strongly agree with this. I think this opinion is ok, because we have now the possibility of anti-conception. otherwise it would've been irresponsible to have sex, because the chance to be 'making a baby' is substantial. since this chance can be very good reduced I also have to disagree.
tingkagol
honestly i don't even care.

sex is sex.

marriage is marriage.
forgewolf
we're living in a modern world. Close minded people don't progress these days. some rules are bend through out time and one is sex before marriage. this is becoming a norm through out the world so better deal with it
inmanbulldog
I personally am a advocate of personal choice. If you choose to have sex before you get married then so be it. I personally had sex before I got married, but fortunately for me my first, last, and only complete sexual experience was and is with my wife. As a really good athlete I was barraged by plenty of offers to release my stress before a game, but it was my choice not to comply. I eventually got married to the only lady who made me feel great both mentally and physically. I've been married two years tomorrow and even though we have sex like rabits still, we both know that there is much more to our relationship than just sex. If I were to give advice it would be to wait until you get married, but life isnt perfect and neither is any human that walks this side of the galaxy. If you believe in a monetheistic religion then there is always "forgiveness" and other avenues to eradicate the sin in which you've "so called" committed. If you are the lucky ones who have a specific GOD dedicated to the one subject and celibrates it like it was it's own entity, then lets hope when we all die your GOD's reign supreme. If not, sh*t we are all in trouble, because just to think about sex is sin in the major monotheistic religion. So remember the next time you lay down in bed with your sex partner it's your choice, just hope that you have chosen correctly.
polis
It takes two to tango.

It's up to you, no one else.
pampoon
This topic is useless. I now realize why my brother went insane here.

Here's how it works:

In order to believe that sex before marriage is wrong, you need to believe these:
  1. That God exists
  2. That marriage is a very solemn sacrament
  3. That the bible is the true word of God (not Allah, etc.)
So that crosses out about half of the people here...

And unless someone here feels like spending endless hours convincing them that God is real, marriage is solemn, and the bible is the true word of God, this topic is basically a poll. Everyone here, besides posting personally against one another, is saying the same things. Either they agree with thpn, or they don't.

I'm not, by any means, trying to push any of you into not posting here. I can't and won't do that because frankly I don't care that much where or what you post. It's your life, do with it what you want. My beliefs are my beliefs, and none other's.

I am simply explaining that posting here is still useless.

(These are my opinions)

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon
Arnie
Of course, and that is the reason that all the God-topics on Frihost are something to avoid. People have their own right to choose what to do, and they will also carry the consequences of their choices. Warning them about the consequences is one thing, but when people don't care about your warnings (on whatever the topic may be) the topic soon becomes a personal debate. In the end, the only good those arguments do are making you Frih$ and points. Even if you win a debate it doesn't do any good, except maybe make you feel good. It won't convince the other party! This is why I generally stay away from all such topics. If you really want to say something, just make one well-thought post and leave it there. Don't be lured by the argument hawks that will try to get you into a debate on it. They mostly just do it because they love showing their debating skills.
pampoon
Arnie wrote:
Of course, and that is the reason that all the God-topics on Frihost are something to avoid. People have their own right to choose what to do, and they will also carry the consequences of their choices. Warning them about the consequences is one thing, but when people don't care about your warnings (on whatever the topic may be) the topic soon becomes a personal debate. In the end, the only good those arguments do are making you Frih$ and points. Even if you win a debate it doesn't do any good, except maybe make you feel good. It won't convince the other party! This is why I generally stay away from all such topics. If you really want to say something, just make one well-thought post and leave it there. Don't be lured by the argument hawks that will try to get you into a debate on it. They mostly just do it because they love showing their debating skills.


Well put Wink ...

If you go back and read the posts on pages 1-about 5, you will see that yes, maybe every 12th post actually contained a new thought on the topic. But other than those, it was mostly the same people saying the same thing.

I've long since given-up on trying to convert people over the internet. There's no point in it, because they can lie, and cuss, and act big when they're hiding behind the mask of their username, something they can't do in real-life.

Fighting on FriHost is like fighting on MySpace. Even if you do when, you're still retarded...

Oh, and just for the people who want to say that I'm not "like Christ" or whatever: I really, really don't care what you think Smile

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon
The Conspirator
pampoon wrote:
I've long since given-up on trying to convert people over the internet. There's no point in it, because they can lie, and cuss, and act big when they're hiding behind the mask of their username, something they can't do in real-life.

You shouldn't try to convert any one over the internet or not.
pampoon
The Conspirator wrote:
pampoon wrote:
I've long since given-up on trying to convert people over the internet. There's no point in it, because they can lie, and cuss, and act big when they're hiding behind the mask of their username, something they can't do in real-life.

You shouldn't try to convert any one over the internet or not.

Why not? I have the right to don't I? You don't have to agree, but I can at least tell you what I believe, what I think is right, and what I think you should do. You don't have to do it, and I won't force anyone to believe what I do, but I do have the right (at least in the great country of America) to at least try.

You may not accept that (doubt you will), so if you're going to criticize please PM me with it or post it somewhere else so you don't fill the topic with it. There's enough of it here already.

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon
polis
pampoon wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
pampoon wrote:
I've long since given-up on trying to convert people over the internet. There's no point in it, because they can lie, and cuss, and act big when they're hiding behind the mask of their username, something they can't do in real-life.

You shouldn't try to convert any one over the internet or not.

Why not? I have the right to don't I? You don't have to agree, but I can at least tell you what I believe, what I think is right, and what I think you should do. You don't have to do it, and I won't force anyone to believe what I do, but I do have the right (at least in the great country of America) to at least try.

You may not accept that (doubt you will), so if you're going to criticize please PM me with it or post it somewhere else so you don't fill the topic with it. There's enough of it here already.

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon


Like Voltaire said: "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "

Anyway, i have a question for ya'll:

What do you think about sex before marriage?
pampoon
Ha, it's so easy to get off track when it gets personal.

But anyways, to sex before marriage, I have the basic Christian belief that it is wrong. I'm not like my brother in saying that if you do it, you'll go to hell and perish in the flames, but according to my pastor that is what will happen.

But even if I was atheist or pagan, I still would have a problem with it. To me, sex before marriage is just morally wrong. I've been raised to respect women and sometimes SBM can be degrading to them. I've seen a few girls in my past classes in school get really into a person and then end up being heartbroken after a one-night-stand.

I'm not sexist, so I have to say that there have been a couple guys here and there that came across the same situation. They, too, put everything into one girl, only to find out that she was just in it for the sex. After that one night, she left him for another guy (for one, it happened to be a good friend of his).

But these are just my opinions (please no bashing).

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon
The Conspirator
pampoon wrote:
The Conspirator wrote:
pampoon wrote:
I've long since given-up on trying to convert people over the internet. There's no point in it, because they can lie, and cuss, and act big when they're hiding behind the mask of their username, something they can't do in real-life.

You shouldn't try to convert any one over the internet or not.

Why not? I have the right to don't I? You don't have to agree, but I can at least tell you what I believe, what I think is right, and what I think you should do. You don't have to do it, and I won't force anyone to believe what I do, but I do have the right (at least in the great country of America) to at least try.

You may not accept that (doubt you will), so if you're going to criticize please PM me with it or post it somewhere else so you don't fill the topic with it. There's enough of it here already.

God bless Wink ,
Pampoon

Cause you should respect people enough not to convert them to your beliefs no matter how much you believe it and no matter what you think will happen to them when they die (especially when that belief rely on the illogical concept of faith).
Your belief are mearly that, beliefs, not facts.

Edit: unless of course those beliefs will lead them to do harm to other in which its ok to persuade them into not believing what the believed but not into what you believe.
dbhai
Sex before marriage in many cases is a wrong doing, one should have sex only after marriage and marriage should be after 25 years of age as there is so much population in this world which should be lessened.
Ruzanna
Well I mean it is a part of nature even though i'm catholic and i'm not really suppose to support these stuff but like it depends if your the age of 20 and your doing it for pleasure then it dosn't seem wrong to me cuz everyone is born to do it...
dream
every coin has two sides. god(nature) created bad thing so you can understand the value of good thing. every thign has exact opposite thing like war and peace, love and hate etc.






gunnarr wrote:
I have to agree with Shike and Diebels on this one. I am european and i am Christian. If there is a god, why would he install this urge to have sex into us if he doesn't want us to follow that instinct until later on in life? So if people are never proposed to, God never want's them to have sex in their entire lifes? That isn't in cosistancy with so called "God's will" where he wishes humans enternal happyness. The bible was written by men after all, it didn't fall on someone's head from the sky.
Eating before marriage isn't a sin. Breathing air before marriag isn't a sin. Sleeping before marriage isn't a sin, why would sex be? It is one of those big needs installed in all humas. Isn't it possible that this is an ancient birth control system, there were no condoms those days and people had to do somthing on order to control how many babies were coming.
Denying yourself of this basic need doesn't lead you to salvation or make god like you more than he already does. But on the other hand, going across the limit is not good but the bible and it command lines are more like guidlines, not the LAW. Some people like an ancient script to be in charge of their lifes, i am not one of them.
Bikerman
dream wrote:
every coin has two sides. god(nature) created bad thing so you can understand the value of good thing. every thign has exact opposite thing like war and peace, love and hate etc.

No, not everything has an opposite, let alone an exact opposite.
What, for example, is the opposite of a human, or a paper-clip, or a photograph, or a computer........(need I continue?)?
blackheart
I think wether sex is appropriate before marriage is subjective.

Some people will want to wait for cultural or religious reasons, and others will want to wait because to them, it's more "special" that way.

Conversely, there are people like me who see nothing wrong with it, as long as a person is sensible about with whom and when they have sex.

And then there are people who see nothing wrong with sex at all.

Although I have to grit my teeth and admit I don't personally agree with the third catagory of person. it has to be said that one person cannot impose their own values or views on another with something like this - where it doesn't hurt anyone bar the coupel involved.

Those that want to wait should not expect everyone to wait (or to adopt their cultural or religious principles), those that believe sex is okay as long as people are sensible should not ridicule those that wait for marriage, and those that have sex freely should not try and convinvce others it's okay to adopt the same lifestyle.
spinout
In my country marrige is wrong!!! Laughing

Sweden was the most sexual country for a while.

Actually marrige here is (very often) a thing you get to when u have a midlife crisis - trying to reastablish with your partner. When your kids have moved away n your worklife has slowed down - and then your partner is suddenly back in focus...

We have a law that sais no sex before 15 years of age.

It seems that in many cultures the marrige is just to give a couple OK to have sex... sounds so stupid to me. I think the fundation /idea of marrige is just a way to control your kin, It doesn't fit to the human standard actually. I guess the marrige-idea should be reformed somehow.
nappa
Yeah agree, sex is for marriage. However people still having sex even though they are not married. I think practically people avoid the rules about marriage.

I bet you guys are not virgins, are you?

And I think that this rule about sex is only for conservative people.
isyan
sex before marriage is fornication... thats what the bible says... while sex after marriage is divine and should be exercised between married couple... Idea


jah blez!
missdixy
I would never, ever marry anyone before first having sex with them. How a person treats me during sex and how I feel with them etc. tells me a lot about them and about our relationship.

While I could never have meaningless sex (I would have be emotionally involved) I don't think it's wrong for other people to do so, as long as they're safe.
romaop
There is one problem when marrying. The couple has to wait till the end of the party. Finally!!! Sex is on the next door! They discover that the bed is filled with rice and sugar. The husband remembers that a friend has the house's key. The couple laughs with the situation but then the bed goes down. Hope the house doesn't go down too, the wife says. The lights are now out and we (readers) hope things will be great for their future.
xonage
i think marriage is much much overrated nowadays.

I know lots of couples who are not married and are still together for 10-20 years. If you manage it right there is no need for marriing
sopetite
Although I do believe in cherishing marriage, and avoiding premarital sex, marriage is much overrated nowadays.
aningbo
yes one must not and teach the importance to others too. but films and other forms of entertainment seems to be taking away the innocence. can't help.
cornga56
Believe what you want but don't force it on people by way of disagreement with other people. Sex before marriage is fine if the two people consent to it. You wouldn't be here if that weren't true. Personally I could care less if you hold out or not, I'm not going to hold out because if I am getting married to someone I had better know every single thing about them including what their sex is like. I think it's foolish to get married without knowing someone all too well. And it's foolish to marry someone too quickly, it ends in divorce. Now I know you religious people on here have your ideals, but you need to focus on yourself and what you want and not that everyone else should be focusing on what you want. This is a silly argument to even be having at this day in age, I feel that many people have been indoctrinated and are therefore biased because you've not been raised with an open mind, and before you even say that you do have an open mind you should realize that you don't have an open mind if you think that everyone in the world should never have sex before marriage, because that's assuming that everyone in the world is wrong and you are right, and that is unarguably closed minded.
liljp617
How bout you leave your silly, ignorant religion out of other people's lives? Would be a start for peace in the world...
cath_welch
As long as you love the person then nothing can stop you! Love brings sex. Obviously sleeping around is wrong but giving the person you love, maried or not, is not a bad thing.
Afaceinthematrix
Whong wrote:

That's why Islamists, Catholics etc. have better marriages they cherish their most personal thing that is only to be seen in bedrooms after marriage!


Haha... Yeah right. Do you know how many Christians I've seen with horrible marriages because of waiting to have sex until they're married? I've seen many people get married way too young and for the wrong reasons simply because they want to have sex. If they would have just had sex without being married, they could have waited to get married and probably had a better marriage. That whole "Christians have better marriages because they wait to have sex" nonsense is just more religious propaganda.

blackheart wrote:
I think wether sex is appropriate before marriage is subjective.

Some people will want to wait for cultural or religious reasons, and others will want to wait because to them, it's more "special" that way.

Conversely, there are people like me who see nothing wrong with it, as long as a person is sensible about with whom and when they have sex.

And then there are people who see nothing wrong with sex at all.

Although I have to grit my teeth and admit I don't personally agree with the third catagory of person. it has to be said that one person cannot impose their own values or views on another with something like this - where it doesn't hurt anyone bar the coupel involved.

Those that want to wait should not expect everyone to wait (or to adopt their cultural or religious principles), those that believe sex is okay as long as people are sensible should not ridicule those that wait for marriage, and those that have sex freely should not try and convinvce others it's okay to adopt the same lifestyle.


I completely agree with that idea. Whatever your belief is, you shouldn't force that onto other people. You may think that some lifestyles are a bad idea, but you shouldn't try and change people. I have the same idea as you. I don't believe that you must wait until marriage to have sex, yet I don't think sleeping around is a good idea because of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. Safe sex out of marriage is alright in my opinion.
barmstonian
(Masturbation)
thpn wrote:
Well, yes it is wrong. It is a sin of adultury.

According to the catholic church it is a sin, but only a minor one. As long as you admit to it in confession you'll be alright. Just don't get run over on the way to confession though - you'll end up with a few centuries in purgatory. One comedian came up with a solution to this risk - i.e. what occasion in a small enclosed private space to do it... but I won't be crude and repeat it here.

B.
kevbailey
Shike wrote:
I believe that a true emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marraige. It is in these moments that true life actualy reveals itself.


Disagreed. I would have to say that it is far more important to be able to make the connection with your wife/husband when you are about to have sex for the first time. Quite important to be able to say "this is all yours" than it is to satisfy our Earthly desires.
liljp617
kevbailey wrote:
Shike wrote:
I believe that a true emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marraige. It is in these moments that true life actualy reveals itself.


Disagreed. I would have to say that it is far more important to be able to make the connection with your wife/husband when you are about to have sex for the first time. Quite important to be able to say "this is all yours" than it is to satisfy our Earthly desires.


How does a made up label and a piece of paper make any difference? If you have that true emotional bond (which was his assertion), you can't honestly tell me a piece of paper makes a difference. You can have the feeling/devotion you describe without a priest saying it's okay -.-
{name here}
dbhai wrote:
Sex before marriage in many cases is a wrong doing, one should have sex only after marriage and marriage should be after 25 years of age as there is so much population in this world which should be lessened.

Marriage doesn't stop you from having fifty kids. It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.

If you want love and pleasure and both of you consent to having sex, laissiez-faire. In following the maxim that all is moral that does not destroy another's civil liberties, we have no business stopping someone having sex before marriage and it is perfectly fine. I value the freedom of others over my own religious asceticism (if I actually have any left being both asexual and atheist).
Indi
{name here} wrote:
Marriage doesn't stop you from having fifty kids. It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.

Good god damn i'd hate to be your wife.
makciook
Hi everyone! Smile

Quote:
It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.


Does it? Many people now are married, but aren't real catholics - they only believe in god, but don't live with Decalogue and etc. Same thing about sex before getting married - marriage is some kind of becoming mature. And that's the point why the mentally-mature sex is better than the other.
liljp617
makciook wrote:
Hi everyone! Smile

Quote:
It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.


Does it? Many people now are married, but aren't real catholics - they only believe in god, but don't live with Decalogue and etc. Same thing about sex before getting married - marriage is some kind of becoming mature. And that's the point why the mentally-mature sex is better than the other.


Hopefully you're not saying marriage = maturity. And, by default, saying marital sex = more mature than pre-marital sex.
Afaceinthematrix
liljp617 wrote:
makciook wrote:
Hi everyone! :)

Quote:
It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.


Does it? Many people now are married, but aren't real catholics - they only believe in god, but don't live with Decalogue and etc. Same thing about sex before getting married - marriage is some kind of becoming mature. And that's the point why the mentally-mature sex is better than the other.


Hopefully you're not saying marriage = maturity. And, by default, saying marital sex = more mature than pre-marital sex.


That would be funny... seeing someone trying to make that point. If marriage equaled maturity, you wouldn't see 18-year-olds get married and divorced in the same year!
{name here}
Indi wrote:
{name here} wrote:
Marriage doesn't stop you from having fifty kids. It just stops you from having 50 kids with other women.

Good god damn i'd hate to be your wife.

I'm not saying I want 50 kids if that's what your getting at Razz. And I do now realize that it doesn't technically stop you from having 50 kids with other women (or other men for that matter) either, but I assumed a bit of faithfulness on part of both.
makciook
Quote:
That would be funny... seeing someone trying to make that point. If marriage equaled maturity, you wouldn't see 18-year-olds get married and divorced in the same year!

And I have never seen such situation. But I showed the look of a church, not mine... Doesn't the priest say, that "church-marriage" (don't know wright word for this) means maturity? Wink
Bannik
I dont get it, whats wrong with just having sex?
ibay
It depends on your culture. Some cultures require you to have sex before marraige to test your manhood, while others prohibit it.
liljp617
makciook wrote:
Quote:
That would be funny... seeing someone trying to make that point. If marriage equaled maturity, you wouldn't see 18-year-olds get married and divorced in the same year!

And I have never seen such situation. But I showed the look of a church, not mine... Doesn't the priest say, that "church-marriage" (don't know wright word for this) means maturity? Wink


Matrimony?



Personally, a priest is an opinionated man with a pulpit...nothing more. What he says means no more than the rest of us.
spinout
marridge and sex - that's a way to take away the enjoyment!


yes in our country it's best to have sex first - to see if it works.
Well, noone marries in the beginning either - most people marry efter having kids...
Greatking
I have been thought that sex before marriage is wrong and i have read the bible many times about the subject, read books and articles concerning the same. My personal experience and what i have been thought has made me to learn one thing.

1. God created sex for man as a form of procreation.
2. Sex between a man a woman is a form of intimacy that brings a bond between the two.
3. There are emotions that are transfered from one person to the other, and this is what knits the souls together.

People have still not come to recognize and accept the fact that after a one night stand with a woman, there is some form of connection between the two of you. They say its whats in the mind at the time of inception of the thought to go in for the woman or man. No wonder when you see that person again you tend to have some form of attraction towards the person, now this also can be aggued that if you recent the person you will not look even twice. But then again we cants deny the fact you looked again once.

All of this transcends down to the fact that there is some kind of connection between humans when emotions, genes, blood and feelings are transfered. The consequence of what will happen to us is why God frowns on such things. God told Adam if you eat of this tree you will die.

Having sex with someone that you are not commited to in marriage will bring you consequence that you are not ready to bear and that is why it is not accepted by God, because He has consecreted it and thats why the marriage bed is undefiled.
gaxtest
Greatking wrote:
I have been thought that sex before marriage is wrong and i have read the bible many times about the subject, read books and articles concerning the same. My personal experience and what i have been thought has made me to learn one thing.

1. God created sex for man as a form of procreation.
2. Sex between a man a woman is a form of intimacy that brings a bond between the two.
3. There are emotions that are transfered from one person to the other, and this is what knits the souls together.

People have still not come to recognize and accept the fact that after a one night stand with a woman, there is some form of connection between the two of you. They say its whats in the mind at the time of inception of the thought to go in for the woman or man. No wonder when you see that person again you tend to have some form of attraction towards the person, now this also can be aggued that if you recent the person you will not look even twice. But then again we cants deny the fact you looked again once.

All of this transcends down to the fact that there is some kind of connection between humans when emotions, genes, blood and feelings are transfered. The consequence of what will happen to us is why God frowns on such things. God told Adam if you eat of this tree you will die.

Having sex with someone that you are not commited to in marriage will bring you consequence that you are not ready to bear and that is why it is not accepted by God, because He has consecreted it and thats why the marriage bed is undefiled.


hey bro I just love your write up... God bless you for this
Keran
What a bunch of religious fanatics dwell on this forum... Sex is something truly awesome and waiting to get married just to have it is plainly stupid, it's missing out all the fun. Once You get married (and that will probably happen when You're about >30 years old) You'll notice that sex isn't such a big deal, it's not some super duper holy ceremony. And if You have had sex before marriage(before You met Your wife) it won't suddenly ruin sex with Your future wife in any way :/

However I'm not gonna try to change everyone's mind here, because I pretty much don't stand a chance against the great Church and it's bunch of rigorous rules that limit every fun aspect of our lives, for the sake of being 'pure'... That's my opinion and I respect everyone else's opinion.
c'tair
Keran wrote:
What a bunch of religious fanatics dwell on this forum... Sex is something truly awesome and waiting to get married just to have it is plainly stupid, it's missing out all the fun. Once You get married (and that will probably happen when You're about >30 years old) You'll notice that sex isn't such a big deal, it's not some super duper holy ceremony. And if You have had sex before marriage(before You met Your wife) it won't suddenly ruin sex with Your future wife in any way :/

However I'm not gonna try to change everyone's mind here, because I pretty much don't stand a chance against the great Church and it's bunch of rigorous rules that limit every fun aspect of our lives, for the sake of being 'pure'... That's my opinion and I respect everyone else's opinion.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Putting so much wieght on something that just brings joy (and sometimes worries if you're not careful). Hey, look at it this way : sex doesn't mean sh*t. Marriage doesn't mean sh*t. At least in these days. Back in the day men would beat their wives. Now everyone jsut divorces everyone else. Neither sex nor marriage give any sort of... power to bond two people if they are wrong in the head enough to beat their loved on.
Crinoid
Define what you mean under a "sex" and its role in marriage, holy or not, not theoretical or ideal (how it should be), but what exists in reality for a millions of people. Marriage is not valid until it was "consumed", and sex (in court meaning) frequently ends in marriage, together with love, trust, cooperation, respect, and lives - lost or wrecked - by involvement with others, will it be certified or common law marriage.
...I'm opening a can of worms. Rolling Eyes
clairebear
are there any quotes in the bible of God speaking about this? it seems to me that denying sex before marriage is a request of religion.. which is a man-made institution. Also, one must consider the technological circumstances upon which this idea was founded.. for the most part, abstinence was the only birth control available to people and therefore necessary
Whong
clairebear wrote:
are there any quotes in the bible of God speaking about this? it seems to me that denying sex before marriage is a request of religion.. which is a man-made institution. Also, one must consider the technological circumstances upon which this idea was founded.. for the most part, abstinence was the only birth control available to people and therefore necessary


This at least talks about pre marital sex.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

The Bible may not clearly state anywhere that sex before marriage is sin, but when one understands God's plan for marriage and the way he made it, it becomes clear that promiscuty and adultery are sins against man and against God.

We tend to see marriage as a slip of paper that doesn't matter but in deed marriage is covenant to be loyal to each other and to live for each other until death do us part.
pumpin
In my own opinion, there's something God himself gave mankind which is free will. If your heart allows you to have sex before marriage without feeling guilty, fine. If not, Don't do it Exclamation I don't see anything special in sex to preserve it till after marriage while your killing your body with sexual urges.
Masturbation, am indifferent about that because i have a christian background that doesn't support such but, i think free-will should also be applied here too.If your heart is good with it, fine Exclamation If not, don't do it Exclamation Life is easier than most of us take it.
pumpin
In my own opinion, there's something God himself gave mankind which is free will. If your heart allows you to have sex before marriage without feeling guilty, fine. If not, Don't do it Exclamation I don't see anything special in sex to preserve it till after marriage while your killing your body with sexual urges.
Masturbation, am indifferent about that because i have a christian background that doesn't support such but, i think free-will should also be applied here too.If your heart is good with it, fine Exclamation If not, don't do it Exclamation Life is easier than most of us take it. Wink
Shahira
Okay people,

Sex is said to be wrong before marriage in the Qur'an..I don't think I totally agree with this but it really does make sense..How many couples who've had sex before marriage live a happily married life afterwards? How many of us have never been heart-broken after having sex?

This is why sex after marriage, I believe, is better than before..Men are creatures who want to experience as many women as possible..Not that they are bad..This is human nature..This is how we evolved..It all has to do with men's psychology and evolution.

But still, on moral grounds, is it right for men to break 10 hearts by leaving 10 women with whom they've had sex? Therefore, to protect the woman, sex is better after marriage..It leaves a woman feeling totally disrespectful, unimportant and hurt after being abandoned by the man who promised her that he will never leave her..Men want virgins but they don't mind sleeping with 200 women. We feel bad having lost our virginity.

S
deanhills
Shahira wrote:
Okay people,

Sex is said to be wrong before marriage in the Qur'an..I don't think I totally agree with this but it really does make sense..How many couples who've had sex before marriage live a happily married life afterwards? How many of us have never been heart-broken after having sex?

This is why sex after marriage, I believe, is better than before..Men are creatures who want to experience as many women as possible..Not that they are bad..This is human nature..This is how we evolved..It all has to do with men's psychology and evolution.

But still, on moral grounds, is it right for men to break 10 hearts by leaving 10 women with whom they've had sex? Therefore, to protect the woman, sex is better after marriage..It leaves a woman feeling totally disrespectful, unimportant and hurt after being abandoned by the man who promised her that he will never leave her..Men want virgins but they don't mind sleeping with 200 women. We feel bad having lost our virginity.

S
I'm not an expert but with regard to the Qu'ran I am almost certain that the intention is for both sexes to abstain from premarital sex. Not only women. Where men are probably allowed to sleep with more than one woman would be when they are married to more than one woman. That would make sense, but "sleeping around" and sleeping with women that men aren't married to would not make sense at all. How could it? Question
liljp617
Shahira wrote:
How many couples who've had sex before marriage live a happily married life afterwards?


Likely a lot. My parents being one of them.


Let's be realistic here, sexual attraction and intimacy are key factors to a happy marriage. Better to find out if its present with your partner before you enter into marriage than to abstain and find out it's just not there after marriage (and then have to go through all the nonsense that is an unhappy marriage or divorce). It may not make or break a marriage in all cases, but I'm inclined to say it's a huge factor. Obviously it's still a huge decision within a relationship and should be treated with responsibility -- especially the responsibility of knowing a potential child could arise from your actions.
Bikerman
Shahira wrote:
Okay people,

Sex is said to be wrong before marriage in the Qur'an..I don't think I totally agree with this but it really does make sense..How many couples who've had sex before marriage live a happily married life afterwards? How many of us have never been heart-broken after having sex?

This is why sex after marriage, I believe, is better than before..Men are creatures who want to experience as many women as possible..Not that they are bad..This is human nature..This is how we evolved..It all has to do with men's psychology and evolution.

But still, on moral grounds, is it right for men to break 10 hearts by leaving 10 women with whom they've had sex? Therefore, to protect the woman, sex is better after marriage..It leaves a woman feeling totally disrespectful, unimportant and hurt after being abandoned by the man who promised her that he will never leave her..Men want virgins but they don't mind sleeping with 200 women. We feel bad having lost our virginity.

S

a) The large majority of people (certainly in the west) have sex before marriage, including most married couples (happy or not). I have no stats but I would guess that there is little difference in the 'happiness' for couples who did or didn't.
b) This whole notion of 'protecting' women from broken hearts is incredibly sexist. Cloaking such sexism in terms of 'natural evolved' behaviour is a complete red herring. We 'naturally' have many instincts which are not acted upon in society.
Imagine if I said that women had an evolved role as carers and child-bearers, therefore they should stay at home. Offensive isn't it? If you can't overcome 'instincts' then you do not belong in any civilised company.
Afaceinthematrix
Shahira wrote:
How many couples who've had sex before marriage live a happily married life afterwards? How many of us have never been heart-broken after having sex?


Many... I don't think there would be statistics to show any differences in divorce rates among people who did or didn't engage in premarital sex. It would be hard to find because most people do have sex before marriage. I personally think it's a good idea. On second thought, I actually do think that there are statistics for this. I think they might actually show the opposite. Last time I read, Oklahoma had the largest divorce rates in the U.S. They also had the youngest average marriage age. I think there is a cause and effect there. You get married young, then you're more likely to get divorce (maturity issues). Hell, if I got married now, I would be divorced in a month. Oklahoma is also in the Bible Belt of the U.S. and is extremely religious. Now, to connect some dots (maybe I'm not connecting these correct - it's all speculation): people in Oklahoma are too religious to have premarital sex. Their body wants something else. So they get married young just to have sex (my sister for one, I think, got married super young simply so her pastor husband and her could have sex).


Quote:
But still, on moral grounds, is it right for men to break 10 hearts by leaving 10 women with whom they've had sex? Therefore, to protect the woman, sex is better after marriage..It leaves a woman feeling totally disrespectful, unimportant and hurt after being abandoned by the man who promised her that he will never leave her..Men want virgins but they don't mind sleeping with 200 women. We feel bad having lost our virginity.


Really... We feel bad having lost our virginity? I personally thought it was a milestone back when I was a teenager and it happened to me... But that's just me... Well actually, it's not just me. That's how most teenagers feel. Why the Hell do you think everyone brags about it nonstop the next day at school?

Furthermore, you're actually going to defend this on the basis of broken hearts? People will have their hearts broken regardless if they get laid or not. That's part of growing up, part of getting into the dating scene, part of learning about relationships, etc. It really needs to happen because there's no other way to learn to deal with these issues...

Sex before marriage is, in my opinion, a good thing - if done properly. I do not endorse major promiscuity and unprotected sex. But protected sex is a good part of experimented in relationships and really learning how things are. And then also, there's the advise that my uncle (the only other person in my family that is not super religious) once gave me after my sister got married, "Daniel, [eff] a lot of women before you find the one that you want to [eff] everyday for the rest of your life." I don't know if that's good advice to everyone, but I think it is decent...
spinout
I saw this comedian doing jokes about sex AFTER marriage!
If you don't concider sex before marrige then you don't know sex AFTER marriage!!!
visualconcepts
thpn wrote:
Sex is for married, being together in Holy Matronmony, and no one other.

Animal wrote:
Just because people in a discussion you started do not agree with you does not give you the right to close the topic, or more importantly, tell the moderators what to do. I've read through the topic and dealt with any posts I feel are in breach of the rules and have no decency. Other than that, it seems that this is a fair, balanced argument and you have no grounds to demand that it be closed.

Please do not edit your topics and demand they are closed again - if you feel that you have a genuine reason for a topic to be closed or moved, please PM a moderator. Do NOT edit this comment out.


I dont think there is any harm in having sex before marriage, as long as both agree. I have had six girl friiends, have sex with all of them, and now they are happily married.
mqmpakistani
Greatking wrote:
I have been thought that sex before marriage is wrong and i have read the bible many times about the subject, read books and articles concerning the same. My personal experience and what i have been thought has made me to learn one thing.

1. God created sex for man as a form of procreation.
2. Sex between a man a woman is a form of intimacy that brings a bond between the two.
3. There are emotions that are transfered from one person to the other, and this is what knits the souls together.

People have still not come to recognize and accept the fact that after a one night stand with a woman, there is some form of connection between the two of you. They say its whats in the mind at the time of inception of the thought to go in for the woman or man. No wonder when you see that person again you tend to have some form of attraction towards the person, now this also can be aggued that if you recent the person you will not look even twice. But then again we cants deny the fact you looked again once.

All of this transcends down to the fact that there is some kind of connection between humans when emotions, genes, blood and feelings are transfered. The consequence of what will happen to us is why God frowns on such things. God told Adam if you eat of this tree you will die.

Having sex with someone that you are not commited to in marriage will bring you consequence that you are not ready to bear and that is why it is not accepted by God, because He has consecreted it and thats why the marriage bed is undefiled.



I can tell you about my experience.
I felt myself committed to many girls during whole of my life at different stages. I thought of them, I felt for them, but I was never able to have sex with them
Then I was in my hostel, and a girl came needing some help. I didn't know her, but she sat near me and I was getting mad full time and out of control for the urge to touch her, to feel her ......
Conclusion, I got the feelings for lot of girls, but was not able to marry all of them. My mind suggests that it means sex before marriage is not how nature looks at it. This is only the social pressure which compel us to think like it.
spinout
hm, to the most sex AFTER marriage is the problem Laughing
shashwatblack
certainly something that is much frowned upon in many religions and most places around the globe - sex before marriage.
i'd like to disagree with those who say that sex is only for the married..
an emotional connection is a better requirement for sex than marriage.. if you have that sure go ahead.. you are hurting no one, why should it bother anyone else? a sex-addict however is a very different thing, sleeping with one after another partner, and having no real connection is both unhealthy, and sick.
i believe sex is about enjoying the life you've got, and sharing it with someone special, not necessarily your wife... such commitments require a longer time to adjust to, and come later.. much later than sex..
jajarvin
There is Sex Before Marriage, but is there Sex After Marriage ? Wink
the_emissary
Just wanted to say I believe in sex before marriage. Reason? You might get the opposite of what you wished for and realize only after the wedding... See below...

Nyasro
use protection then
Related topics
S|ex At Undermaturity
great pro-choice shirt?
What are the taboos in your culture?
Has sex before marry???
Sex Before Marriage
Abortion or Murder?
Any Hindus ?
Bible Verses: Do Disbelievers Go To Hell?
Whats with "the VIRGIN MARY"???!!!!
Girl Friend and Sex?
How long to wait for sex?
The Church and Homosexuality
Premarital Sex?
Sex Ed is a Joke
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Lifestyle and News -> Philosophy and Religion

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.