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“Satan made me do it!”
One of the ways people shirk responsibility for their own actions is by blaming others. Sometimes it doesn’t work very well to blame real people -- because real people sometimes do real things in retaliation. So another popular method is to blame mythical beings. The most popular one of those seems to be Satan.
The following is not particularly noteworthy, but is just another example of this phenomenon of Satan blaming. You can read the whole article here.
“Satan made me do it!” Yeah, right
!
Okay, I can kind of understand people not wanting to blame themselves for the bad actions they’ve done. When you’re weak, when you’re not a person of integrity, when you don’t respect yourself -- you pass your responsibility off.
But what gets me is how religions that claim to be “Saving” people, that promise the one way to the “Truth”, that want to achieve the “Good”, that want to help people be upstanding human beings -- will perpetuate this Satan myth.
I mean, yeah, back in the days when people were scared of evil witches and held all kinds of irrational superstitions, it made sense that Satan would be just one more anti-Reality belief. But today!? One would think that today’s religions would have gotten past this myth. And yet Satan is still very “alive”.
Who, here, can explain this?
Why do Christians want to encourage people not to take responsibility for the bad things they do?
Why do Christians claim to be wholly against Satanism, and yet they show their own worship of Satanism by teaching people to believe in and blame Satan?
Who, here, believes in Satan?
(I see this as quite a different discussion than Ignorance of Satanism but maybe there are some people over there to recruit to here
.)
The following is not particularly noteworthy, but is just another example of this phenomenon of Satan blaming. You can read the whole article here.
| Signs of the Times wrote: |
| God’s Voice in My Cell
by Juan Martinez -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When you ask God for help, He always answers. During the time I was 12 to 17 years old, Satan had tried to destroy me through drugs. When he couldn’t accomplish that, he used me to destroy someone else in an attempt to obtain more drugs. And so, in 1991 when I was just 17, I was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years to life. Now, being a young man coming into the penitentiary, I looked to the veteran inmates for guidance. Unfortunately, other than showing me how to be tough, the first guidance they gave me was on how to put a needle into my arm. And so began my heroin habit and Satan’s continuing assault in trying to destroy me. . . . |
“Satan made me do it!” Yeah, right
!
Okay, I can kind of understand people not wanting to blame themselves for the bad actions they’ve done. When you’re weak, when you’re not a person of integrity, when you don’t respect yourself -- you pass your responsibility off.
But what gets me is how religions that claim to be “Saving” people, that promise the one way to the “Truth”, that want to achieve the “Good”, that want to help people be upstanding human beings -- will perpetuate this Satan myth.
I mean, yeah, back in the days when people were scared of evil witches and held all kinds of irrational superstitions, it made sense that Satan would be just one more anti-Reality belief. But today!? One would think that today’s religions would have gotten past this myth. And yet Satan is still very “alive”.
Who, here, can explain this?
Why do Christians want to encourage people not to take responsibility for the bad things they do?
Why do Christians claim to be wholly against Satanism, and yet they show their own worship of Satanism by teaching people to believe in and blame Satan?
Who, here, believes in Satan?
(I see this as quite a different discussion than Ignorance of Satanism but maybe there are some people over there to recruit to here
.)| Quote: |
| Why do Christians want to encourage people not to take responsibility for the bad things they do?
Why do Christians claim to be wholly against Satanism, and yet they show their own worship of Satanism by teaching people to believe in and blame Satan? |
This sounds like a generalization to me. You have different kinds of Christians, not all do pass their responsability to Satan! I also doubt if a majority of Christians do that.
There's a general tendency in religious debates: some people only see extremes, a fundamentalistic Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian,... But I think that most believers aren't fundamentalists. I know some intelligent Christians, and they believe in it because they had some 'deep experiences', and they feel good with believing. But they don't neglect the reason, certainly not! You should be able, if you're a believer at least, to justify your belief and your actions. It's not because you're religious that you can hide behind it.
Thanks for your comments. These things are true:
Some extremes are not true. Some extremes are true. Just because something’s an extreme does not mean it’s not true. I do agree that different Christians believe different things, in general. However, do you agree with the following?
All Christians believe in the (Christian) Bible (in some way). (Otherwise, they wouldn’t be Christians.)
The (Christian) Bible discusses Satan as if it is a being that exists (not just a parable).
Therefore, all Christians believe in Satan (in some way).
~~~~~~~~~~
This is a different point from my original post, but it's at least one starting point towards that.
| Gieter wrote: |
| You have different kinds of Christians |
| Gieter wrote: |
| some people only see extremes |
Some extremes are not true. Some extremes are true. Just because something’s an extreme does not mean it’s not true. I do agree that different Christians believe different things, in general. However, do you agree with the following?
All Christians believe in the (Christian) Bible (in some way). (Otherwise, they wouldn’t be Christians.)
The (Christian) Bible discusses Satan as if it is a being that exists (not just a parable).
Therefore, all Christians believe in Satan (in some way).
~~~~~~~~~~
This is a different point from my original post, but it's at least one starting point towards that.
No problem for my comments, I like to discuss with you.
Christians have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. That's even determined by the Vatican. So not all Christians believe in Satan.
You shouldn't interpret the Bible literally, because it's written in a totally different culture than 'our' culture: they worked a lot with metaphors.
Interesting detail: according to the Vatican a host is still, anno 2006, literally the body from Christ! Weird, isn't it?
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: |
|
All Christians believe in the (Christian) Bible (in some way). (Otherwise, they wouldn’t be Christians.)
The (Christian) Bible discusses Satan as if it is a being that exists (not just a parable).
Therefore, all Christians believe in Satan (in some way).
|
Christians have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. That's even determined by the Vatican. So not all Christians believe in Satan.
You shouldn't interpret the Bible literally, because it's written in a totally different culture than 'our' culture: they worked a lot with metaphors.
Interesting detail: according to the Vatican a host is still, anno 2006, literally the body from Christ! Weird, isn't it?
| Gieter wrote: |
| Christians have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. That's even determined by the Vatican. |
Catholics have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. Where I come from you either believe every word, or very little of it.
Demonic possession does occur, but usualy the person has to in some way invite the demon in, therefore they are indirectly responsible.
I suspect many of the people locked up in asylums are possesed.
I can’t figure out how the following might be true:
I would say, instead, that each Christian interprets the Bible their own way. Which means different Christians will be following different interpretations of the Bible. But that is not the same as each is following parts of it and rejecting parts of it; they only rejected others' interpretations.
Also, in actual cases where they don't follow (compared to their own interpretation), then they sinned; but that, also, is not the same as rejecting it.
I’m very sincere in my quest here. Is there any interpretation of Gieter’s statement above that it would be true? Gieter, would you also please give it another shot, given new stuff in this post?
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh good, ocalhoun; I needed you here!
But they do not have the right to refuse what the Pope says (at least not and still be a “good” Catholic). For them, the Pope has the final say on how to interpret the Bible.
Even Catholics must fully follow the Bible; it’s just that they don’t have the right to interpret for themselves what it means, like Protestants and some other kinds of Christians.
| Gieter wrote: |
| Christians have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. |
I would say, instead, that each Christian interprets the Bible their own way. Which means different Christians will be following different interpretations of the Bible. But that is not the same as each is following parts of it and rejecting parts of it; they only rejected others' interpretations.
Also, in actual cases where they don't follow (compared to their own interpretation), then they sinned; but that, also, is not the same as rejecting it.
I’m very sincere in my quest here. Is there any interpretation of Gieter’s statement above that it would be true? Gieter, would you also please give it another shot, given new stuff in this post?
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh good, ocalhoun; I needed you here!
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
Catholics have the right to refuse things that are in the Bible. |
But they do not have the right to refuse what the Pope says (at least not and still be a “good” Catholic). For them, the Pope has the final say on how to interpret the Bible.
Even Catholics must fully follow the Bible; it’s just that they don’t have the right to interpret for themselves what it means, like Protestants and some other kinds of Christians.
I've nothing against catholocisim except this: that the pope has far too much power. He's the direct succesor of Peter, not Jesus.
Back on topic: Most of the time when someone says "the devil made me do it" they were following their own corrupt desires.
That's why I came...
Back on topic: Most of the time when someone says "the devil made me do it" they were following their own corrupt desires.
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: |
|
Oh good, ocalhoun; I needed you here! |
That's why I came...
I think Satan exists, and is very bad.
I read the title and the first thing that came into my mind was this when someone at my moms work quite. She called up and said "Tell Peachy (my moms boss) that I quite. The devile made me do it" So I kinda do belive in him now. Kinda weird to see something like that.
Ironically, the statement “The Devil made me do it.” is usually an admission that “he” didn’t. But, that’s what I’ve been used to from others. It’d be interesting to know if any Satan/Devil believers use that phrase sincerely.
I’m guessing that your mom’s ex-co-worker was really meaning something like, “I know I’m not being nice to quit like this, but I’m quitting anyway.”
I’m guessing that your mom’s ex-co-worker was really meaning something like, “I know I’m not being nice to quit like this, but I’m quitting anyway.”
The whole "The Devil made me do it" concept is just a cop out for people who are to cowardly to accept the consequences of thier own actions...at least that's how I see it.
As a catholic I do believe in Satan, but I don't believe that he/she/it is capable of making me do anything I didn't want to do in the first place. I also don't think that [most] Christians are attempting to teach people to not take resonsiblity for thier own actions when they preach of the existence of Satan. I'm not exactly sure when Satan became the end-all-be-all of evil, he was once an Arch-Angel. I think over time satan has become more of a concept than a reality. Many have used him/her/it as an excuse or a defense of actions that they are to cowardly to take responsibilty for. On the other hand many have used God's name to the same end.
As a catholic I do believe in Satan, but I don't believe that he/she/it is capable of making me do anything I didn't want to do in the first place. I also don't think that [most] Christians are attempting to teach people to not take resonsiblity for thier own actions when they preach of the existence of Satan. I'm not exactly sure when Satan became the end-all-be-all of evil, he was once an Arch-Angel. I think over time satan has become more of a concept than a reality. Many have used him/her/it as an excuse or a defense of actions that they are to cowardly to take responsibilty for. On the other hand many have used God's name to the same end.
In Islamic belief, Satan exists and encorages humans to make bad things and sins. But human who has commits sins is responsible all of acts. Because satan only says but you make. Therefore if a human commits sins punished by God.
"Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed? And that ye should worship Me; (for that) this was the Straight Way?" (Qur'an, Joseph:60-61)
"Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed? And that ye should worship Me; (for that) this was the Straight Way?" (Qur'an, Joseph:60-61)
well maybe not everything but he sure is prophesized as the BAD GUY in the bible so everyone needs someone to idealize (yes that's the word) for a bad guy. And the good guy is Jesus. Jesus helps us even though (doesn't it say in the bible?) the world (as in earth) is controlled by satan. that since we have free will the world will still go on as if there was no god.
Well I may be wrong but I still think it's pretty similar to a chess game. Too complex. But in actuality it's just a game of good and evil.
GOOD
^^ ^
DEVIL
^^^
Well I may be wrong but I still think it's pretty similar to a chess game. Too complex. But in actuality it's just a game of good and evil.
GOOD
^^ ^
DEVIL
^^^
Satan always tries to tempt us, but in God's strength we can overcome them.
Trust in Jesus today, fore you never know will you be around on this earth tomorrow!
God has a plan for us, lets just listen to him and seek his will!
And one more thing brother GOD IS GOOD!
Trust in Jesus today, fore you never know will you be around on this earth tomorrow!
God has a plan for us, lets just listen to him and seek his will!
And one more thing brother GOD IS GOOD!
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: | ||
I can’t figure out how the following might be true:
I would say, instead, that each Christian interprets the Bible their own way. Which means different Christians will be following different interpretations of the Bible. But that is not the same as each is following parts of it and rejecting parts of it; they only rejected others' interpretations. Also, in actual cases where they don't follow (compared to their own interpretation), then they sinned; but that, also, is not the same as rejecting it. I’m very sincere in my quest here. Is there any interpretation of Gieter’s statement above that it would be true? Gieter, would you also please give it another shot, given new stuff in this post? |
The right to refuse things in the Bible, is literally in Church Right. Literally.
It was GOD who gave us the Law, "Do What Thou Wilt"
We are in *complete* control of our Lives. We were
Created to be Creators! Do What Thou Wilt, but we
need to get back to Shangri La, so ethics comes into
play. But still, we are in control.
Frankly, Satan isn't shit.
"I cut the head off the Devil and tossed him outta Hell,
now it's ours, we freed everybody, now it's an Army,
rotten bones or not they headed back to they bodies."
Humans are Divine. Hard to believe, yet true.
We are gods thanks to God.
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7)
We are in *complete* control of our Lives. We were
Created to be Creators! Do What Thou Wilt, but we
need to get back to Shangri La, so ethics comes into
play. But still, we are in control.
Frankly, Satan isn't shit.
"I cut the head off the Devil and tossed him outta Hell,
now it's ours, we freed everybody, now it's an Army,
rotten bones or not they headed back to they bodies."
Humans are Divine. Hard to believe, yet true.
We are gods thanks to God.
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7)
If u believe in god u believe in satan.
| stinky321 wrote: |
| If u believe in god u believe in satan. |
Not necessarily. God isn't "the God of Christianity" of "the God of Islam." God is a concept, and religions fill in how that God is according to their opinion.
Deists, by example, believe in God, but they don't believe in Satan.
i believe that
satan 
wants to throw all of us in Hell
satan wants to throw all of us in Hell"Satan made me do it"
....
Don't you realize that commonly it's the opposite that people say?
"God want me to do it"
Remember Bush and his politics, God told him to free Irak. So he did.
....
Don't you realize that commonly it's the opposite that people say?
"God want me to do it"
Remember Bush and his politics, God told him to free Irak. So he did.
We, as Christians, do not worship the devil. We merely acknowledge his existence and avoid his temptations and empty promises. We worship God, we worship Jesus, and we worship the Holy Spirit.
Then again, there are 300+ subsidaries of Christianity, and some of them are whack-jobs, so you probably could find some "Christians" that worship Satan. I wouldn't put it past a lot of people.
Then again, there are 300+ subsidaries of Christianity, and some of them are whack-jobs, so you probably could find some "Christians" that worship Satan. I wouldn't put it past a lot of people.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| We, as Christians, do not worship the devil. We merely acknowledge his existence and avoid his temptations and empty promises. We worship God, we worship Jesus, and we worship the Holy Spirit.
Then again, there are 300+ subsidaries of Christianity, and some of them are whack-jobs, so you probably could find some "Christians" that worship Satan. I wouldn't put it past a lot of people. |
Now, please do not be offended, I am just curious..
But why do Christians *worship* Jesus/Yeshua?
I firmly believe that Yeshua did all/most of the miracles
recorded in the Bible and I firmly believe Yeshua
was an Ascended Master, and *A* Son of God.
But Yeshua worshipped God-The-Father and encouraged
everyone to do the same. This is one point of Islam,
Sikhism, and Judaism (the religion of Yeshua):
Worship should be reserved only for the Most High.
I respect and honor Yeshua more than most every
other Human, but he was after all, only human.
Albeit, an Ascended Human, a role model for all
of humanity. I believe Yeshua never said he WAS
God, and if he did it was the common "I am He and
He is I," which acknowledges our Oneness.
Yeshua said that when we get where we're going,
and do what we're meant to do, and be what we're
meant to be, we will (and on one level, Are) equal
with him. Yeshua was the Son of God, as are we all.
He is our Brother.
Yeshua was more commonly known as Son of MAN.
MAN is Adam Kadmon. I believe the only true
Son of God is Adam Kadmon. The Divine Human Prototype.
"The only reason for this world is the healing of God's Son."
--A Course in Miracles
But, these are just my beliefs (actually, many are just
thoughts, I haven't stopped seeking and never will.)
"Walk with those who seek Truth,
Run from those who think they've found It."
I think you are right when you bring up interpretation:
There are layers to the interpretation, however, that allow more complex handlings of texts. The consideration that two biblical texts conflict allows the exploration of the meaning of myth and stories in the religious tradition. What took place in actuality is sometimes less imporatnt than the message of the story.
Different denominations have different freedoms of interpretation. It is true that some denominations view the entire Bible and literal, word for word truth and should one deviate from this narrow path, one is lost. There are also denominations that recognize the possibility of human finger prints in the Biblical texts. Translations after translation. A transcription error. Different editors through time can go beck and rewrite or reinterpret the texts. Genesis is rife with editorial changes.
In the end, is belief in Satan a prereq for being a christian? Certainly not. I could reletate it to myth or to a different culture. There is more flexibility than most realize.
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: |
|
I would say, instead, that each Christian interprets the Bible their own way. Which means different Christians will be following different interpretations of the Bible. But that is not the same as each is following parts of it and rejecting parts of it; they only rejected others' interpretations. Even Catholics must fully follow the Bible; it’s just that they don’t have the right to interpret for themselves what it means, like Protestants and some other kinds of Christians. |
There are layers to the interpretation, however, that allow more complex handlings of texts. The consideration that two biblical texts conflict allows the exploration of the meaning of myth and stories in the religious tradition. What took place in actuality is sometimes less imporatnt than the message of the story.
Different denominations have different freedoms of interpretation. It is true that some denominations view the entire Bible and literal, word for word truth and should one deviate from this narrow path, one is lost. There are also denominations that recognize the possibility of human finger prints in the Biblical texts. Translations after translation. A transcription error. Different editors through time can go beck and rewrite or reinterpret the texts. Genesis is rife with editorial changes.
In the end, is belief in Satan a prereq for being a christian? Certainly not. I could reletate it to myth or to a different culture. There is more flexibility than most realize.
Your whole write-up was very good, snjripp!
Yes! And that’s why assertions should be considered suspect when they are along the lines of <The Christian Bible is the one true way to the one supreme being (God) and the only way to life after death. Oh yeah, and don’t go the way of the one nasty supreme being (Satan).>
Of a gazillion examples, here’s just one http://www.ptcbglc.com/tenents/christianity.htm:
I guess they have the “one true” interpretation too.
| snjripp wrote: |
| There is more flexibility than most realize. |
Yes! And that’s why assertions should be considered suspect when they are along the lines of <The Christian Bible is the one true way to the one supreme being (God) and the only way to life after death. Oh yeah, and don’t go the way of the one nasty supreme being (Satan).>
Of a gazillion examples, here’s just one http://www.ptcbglc.com/tenents/christianity.htm:
| God’s Learning Channel wrote: |
| The Bible is the one true inspired word of God. Nothing can be added to it nor taken away from it. |
I guess they have the “one true” interpretation too.
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: |
| Why do Christians claim to be wholly against Satanism, and yet they show their own worship of Satanism by teaching people to believe in and blame Satan? |
So, technically, they're not teaching people to believe in Satan as Satanists see Satan.
Additionally, I don't think that "teaching people to believe in and blame Satan" constitutes as practicing Satanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Satanism is (basically) about worshipping yourself and holding yourself above all others.
Hello, Marston! I don’t know about this part.....
.....but I believe I agree with the rest of what you said.
~~~~~~~~~~
There is a kind of context switch going on, which I’ll try to clear up. Concerning what you quoted of me, when I talk about the “worship of Satanism” by Christians, I don’t mean worshipping in the sense that so-called Satanists would; I, instead, mean worshipping in the sense of revering it by making it more important than it is -- which is going to make more sense to people who believe Satan is a myth.
For example, I speak often and strongly against political corruption and against the initiation of political force against people, so someone could make a reasonable claim that I worship politics, using my special definition. Of course, I would claim that political corruption actually exists so it’s worthy to make a big deal of it. Christian believers in Satan would say the same thing about Satan. Both of us are making a big deal of something that we consider “bad”. And then, people who don't believe those things (political corruption or Satan) exist, might ask, Why are you worshipping those things by talking about them all the time!?
Anyway, Marston, very good catch! Did I make things more confusing, here, or was I able to explain the subtle differences in the word uses?
| Marston wrote: |
| Satanism is (basically) about worshipping yourself and holding yourself above all others. |
.....but I believe I agree with the rest of what you said.
~~~~~~~~~~
There is a kind of context switch going on, which I’ll try to clear up. Concerning what you quoted of me, when I talk about the “worship of Satanism” by Christians, I don’t mean worshipping in the sense that so-called Satanists would; I, instead, mean worshipping in the sense of revering it by making it more important than it is -- which is going to make more sense to people who believe Satan is a myth.
For example, I speak often and strongly against political corruption and against the initiation of political force against people, so someone could make a reasonable claim that I worship politics, using my special definition. Of course, I would claim that political corruption actually exists so it’s worthy to make a big deal of it. Christian believers in Satan would say the same thing about Satan. Both of us are making a big deal of something that we consider “bad”. And then, people who don't believe those things (political corruption or Satan) exist, might ask, Why are you worshipping those things by talking about them all the time!?
Anyway, Marston, very good catch! Did I make things more confusing, here, or was I able to explain the subtle differences in the word uses?
Ah, I get it .
.This is less common than I did it in the name of Jesus/Allah etc.
You hit a very good thread here:
I do not think many Christians would say that their religion saves people. I think they would agree that Christ does this. As far as the one "Truth", this is a little tougher and requires some hermeneutical movements. The early new testement was written in a context, actually multiple contexts. The concept of Logos was particularly strong as was Phos. The Gospel of John is a great example of this. Christ is the word and the word was with God and the word was God. A light shown in the darkness and the darness did not overcome/understand it.
It is easy to contrue a dualistic view of the world from light and dark... Thus evolved Marcionism... with vestiges yet today.
It always goes back to the Greek, the Greeks, and their philosophies...plural...
| The Philosopher Princess wrote: |
|
But what gets me is how religions that claim to be “Saving” people, that promise the one way to the “Truth”, that want to achieve the “Good”, that want to help people be upstanding human beings -- will perpetuate this Satan myth. |
I do not think many Christians would say that their religion saves people. I think they would agree that Christ does this. As far as the one "Truth", this is a little tougher and requires some hermeneutical movements. The early new testement was written in a context, actually multiple contexts. The concept of Logos was particularly strong as was Phos. The Gospel of John is a great example of this. Christ is the word and the word was with God and the word was God. A light shown in the darkness and the darness did not overcome/understand it.
It is easy to contrue a dualistic view of the world from light and dark... Thus evolved Marcionism... with vestiges yet today.
It always goes back to the Greek, the Greeks, and their philosophies...plural...
If i'm realy honest, i don't belive in Satan....i think this is just a imagenary thing like God, destiny etc...
If i belive in God, i know Satan exist.....
He is the worst "person" i know (he is not a person but a kind of "king deamon)
But t GOD is with us to lock Satan under our feet!
God Bless!
He is the worst "person" i know (he is not a person but a kind of "king deamon)
But t GOD is with us to lock Satan under our feet!
God Bless!
 |