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The ultimate question: Are we really here?





Slammer
Just as the title says, do you believe that we are really 'here', and where is 'here' if we are?

Are we just a bunch of small organisims sitting on a big rock floating in space? Is that big rock sitting in some other universes garden?

If the the universe is endless...how can this be? If you say the universe ends somewhere then that means there must be a 'wall' where it end, and there has to be something on the otherside of it!

Maybe a lot of these things are beyond the scope of the human brain, maybe not.


Discuss anything related to this post!
I wanna know what you all think!

Slammer
Lennon
Of course we're here, what kind of silly statement, sorry.

The question should be "how do we know?", as you're trying to explain.

That takes a leap of faith...
Slammer
It isnt really a silly statement. Yes our bodies are here in this state, but for all you know were actually lying in a room in another universe and we are just 'experiencing' this state. Kind of like the matrix, but not so cheesy Razz
Vrythramax
I suppose it is possible that we are just small organisms on the backside of something much bigger than we could possibly imagine. How would we know? How could it possibly be proved? Simply put, I don't think it could. It has been pointed out in great and gory detail in this forum that to believe in something that can't be proved by science is ignorance of the facts. I am extremely curious how those people will react to this particular thread. Will they go back on thier accusations and say that this idea may be possible even though it can't be proved to "scientific degree by reproducable facts", or will they just ignore it?

Excellant topic and question!!
Soulfire
Well, to my knowledge, the human mind cannot comprehend infinity. It just doesn't work with us, apparently.
SocratesX
Soulfire wrote:
Well, to my knowledge, the human mind cannot comprehend infinity. It just doesn't work with us, apparently.

I concur.
It seems as we are not possible to comprehend that.
We are just too limited in our thinking.

As for the question: "Are we really here?"
I think, if we can ask us that specific question, we may assume "we are really here". "Je pense donc je suis.", René Descartes. (Cogito ergo sum.)
Marston
Infinity, by definition, is imposible to comprehend...
ocalhoun
No, we are not really here. This is all a figment your imagination.
sebascorre
We are here in the past , in the present and in the future.
In the beginning and in the end of the universe we are here.
We become all the time, and the universe become all the time too.
We are part of the universe.
So the question We are here, is really a question Who we are?.
We are the universe, a big bubble.
A bubble that can expand and compress.
Maybe a bubble that is the excretion of other bubbles inside a superbubble that it is inside other supersuperbubble and so on.
Who put the first bubble??
Because the idea of infinite bubbles is only an answear to every question that we don't know the boundries, the answears.
If the time is circular, maybe the first bubble is the last bubble. Or maybe
the bubbles are time travelers. But every bubble inside has its self clock, like the einstein theory.
Ok I have to go to eat, because I have a bubble in my stomach that can not wait
Vrythramax
sebascorre wrote:
We are here in the past , in the present and in the future.
In the beginning and in the end of the universe we are here.
We become all the time, and the universe become all the time too.
We are part of the universe.
So the question We are here, is really a question Who we are?.
We are the universe, a big bubble.
A bubble that can expand and compress.
Maybe a bubble that is the excretion of other bubbles inside a superbubble that it is inside other supersuperbubble and so on.
Who put the first bubble??
Because the idea of infinite bubbles is only an answear to every question that we don't know the boundries, the answears.
If the time is circular, maybe the first bubble is the last bubble. Or maybe
the bubbles are time travelers. But every bubble inside has its self clock, like the einstein theory.
Ok I have to go to eat, because I have a bubble in my stomach that can not wait


Somebody put too much soap in thier bubblebath Smile

Joking of course.
smartbei
Slammer wrote:
Are we just a bunch of small organisims sitting on a big rock floating in space?


Most Definately. Very Happy

Back on topic though:
This is something I myself have pondered, and I have come to the conclusion that no conclusion can be come to. It is like asking yourself to find the corner of a round room, sit there, and make a map of where to find it.
oais
This thread makes me think about the ending scene of the movie 'Men in Black'. Laughing
Wotac
Exellent question I must say. Now, my friend told me one theory once. He said that think about the form of our solar system. It has the sun in the center and other planets are circling around it. Then think about atoms, they look similiar.
Now that doesn't explain the whole thing but some of it.

I guess that it could be possible that this universe ends somewhere. The big bang which blew up some rock and did this universe, could be not so unique afterall. Maybe this universe is some "bubble" or something, and ends to a start of another dimension, which has it's own explosions. Then our universe wouldn't have to be "endless" because these dimensions might just be on different levels and depending on how many levels there is would define the size of this whole thing. This way there wouldn't need to be a wall and nothingness behind it. Like radio frequences, you can just add a new radio station somewhere between those frequences, and radio's options grow. This comparison might be a little weird, but maybe there's someone who understands what I mean with this.
polarBear
This thing is what I like to call 'stoner philosophy', mainly because it need you to focus on stuff that you wouldn't see if you weren't high.

Let's think about something. What is a universe? Any universe? A whole complete and full set of whatever. You can have a universe of people, a universe of data, or a universe of dogs. For practical purposes, our universe is the particles universe. The total amount of matter and energy.

Following, it's logically inadmissible to have many universes. You can't have several everythings, right? You can only have one everything.

So we can logically say that our universe is just one, and it exists. Why does it exist? How do we know it? Where's the proof? We are here to tell it does exist. If the universe wouldn't exist, we wouldn't be here.

Now, is it real? What is real for real? I think we would agree that something is real if it can be measured, or felt by any of our senses and if many other people can repeat the same process.

BUT, if we are all living in the back of, say, an electron cloud, and we are damn small, we can't tell. The universe is such a huge place that it's just statistically possible, but not probable. Because of a matter of scale, it's conceptually impossible to prove.

The real deal can actually be that, or it's also posible that we live in a fractal universe on which everything repeats itself inwards and outwards, and we wouldn't be able to notice anyway, because it's out of our possible reach.

If you want to spend the rest of your life hitting a conceptual wall, go ahead. Please tell me when you solve it. It will be a HUGE leap on our conceptual modelling of reality.
Tumbleweed
Are we really here ?....................... it would be hard to prove we are not here !!!.......and if we were not here, who would we not prove it to ?

I think the ultimate question would be more like " what is the practical existance to life "
Gieter
I don't believe that we live in a kind of Matrix of something, or that we are 'dreaming' this world. It just sounds too ridiculous to be true (in my opinion of course.) But there are theories of parallel universums, or that universums follow up each other. That sounds more believable than the Matrix-thing.
rex123
I'm really here. I don't know about the rest of you. As they say, "on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog".
deathrabbit
The 'are we really here?' question is really unique since it can not be proved that we are here. Fortunatly, the inverse could be proved under the correct circumstances if it became possble to get out of the system and take a look at what it was an how it worked. But if that was the case, the question would shift to 'is that really there?' or is that inside something else?
amicalindia
Slammer wrote:

If the the universe is endless...how can this be? If you say the universe ends somewhere then that means there must be a 'wall' where it end, and there has to be something on the otherside of it!
Slammer


Ancient vedic scriptures say that this material world is an illusion or 'MAYA'. which literaly mean 'one which is not'.

To illustrate the point i will you give you an example. There is a computer program showing a nice car and a road to drive on. It is programmed such that road will never end. It will go on and on. Now see that the car or the road or the landscape, everything is just an illusion. nothing is real. But you have seemingly endless road to drive on.

Now substitute the car with yourself and never ending road/landscape with our universe. You will get the idea how it is an endless illusion.
elincinerador
definetly we are here... what other choices do we have? if we are not here, where could we be? because we are in somewhere, if we are not anyware then we are not at all and we would not exist. so if i do not exist, how can i think? how can i reason? well... also, according to the point of view that we are not here, if we are not here because here do not exists, then what exists? you mean that there's nothing? certanly there is something. it can't be just product of our imagination. and if it is, then there is something: our imagination. imagination then means that there is someone to imagine. that someone is somewhere. that somewhere is here.
Tiger
It's all summed up in "oais" signature - If your problem has a solution then...why worry about it? If your problem doesnt have solution then...why worry about it? -Chinese Proverb

If you can read this post, see your computer, and hear the sounds of life around you, then you need't worry about whether you are really here or not - just deal with it as best you can.

This question and questions like "What is the sound of one hand clapping" may be a great way to spend hours meditating on things that will not change the world or the way we live, but it does nothing for world peace or improving the lives around us - not even your own.

So let's all keep busy with living our lives and try to help others along the way. That way we don't need to worry about it!
494701557
yea i'm always thinking this question. am i really here living this moment or am i a dream of someone else's? am i a figment of someone's imagination just being played out in their mind day by day? with all of my actions predetermined by what we call fate or destiny. i also ask myself what if i was just a mirror image of myself? what if everytime i walk past a mirror or look into a puddle i am merely looking at my real self. and this world i live in, it is just what i do while my real self is doing something else. and if that is so, what am i doing on the other side?

but am i really here? i guess so....

as to the answer of are we just on a rock. i guess that's possible. there are many ways of that being interpreted. one way of looking at it was shown by Men in Black, where they showed our galaxy as a marble just being flung around by other beings. or maybe like the Matrix where we are just living a programed life where as in actuality we are just batteries for machines. or even maybe like The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, where our world is just a world created by some construction company, if i remember correctly whose head was the mice. South Park even had their own image of our world being nothing but a television series for the rest of the universe.

however you interpret this. i read in a book once, to imagine how small we are compared to the universe you have to imagine how small an atom would be, how many billions of billions of atoms could fit just on a tip of a pin. now imagine something that is one thousand times smaller than an atom. and that is probably as close as you can imagine how small we are compared to the universe. and if there is an end to the universe, i guess we probably wouldn't be sure until we found it haha.
Lennon
Are we plugged into the matrix?
Is our life predestined by a god, is he pulling a veil of confusion and blindness over us...?
Are we really alive or just dreaming, or is this just a dream.
I think therefore I am.
If I don't think I don't exist.
plants don't think but yet they exist.
Rules and laws are understood by man as found in nature. But is nature playing tricks on us?

Ever see the truman show? Maybe the human race is an alien experiment.





    I dream some dreams, or so it seems.
    I want to feel like the world is real
    if it's not then what?

    why are we here we tell ourselves.
    So did santa ask his little elves.
    so, ho ho, we'll never know.

    Purpose and value, the author inquest?
    or just random chance, at mere best?
    coz the best don't mess with the rest.

    Answers you seek, questions you find.
    More illusions to trick the mind.
    The more you have, the more you want.
    Lennon here can use his wand.
    Abrakedabra, now we recline,
    as we ask the spirits who have died...
    is this a vision or just in my head?
    Coz i see you now, although you are dead.

    And so my friends, can't you see,
    religion and science cannot be,
    without an element of faith and doubt
    neither can argue or question the round.
    Perfection and totality are limits beyond,
    and we cannot reach it without a God,
    and this question too, is worthy of praise,
    to imagine a world hidden beyond our gaze.

Composed by lennon
twilightmoon
Yes we are here and here is here where here is
werther
where?
nopaniers
Until anyone gives me evidence otherwise, I believe that I am here.
Juparis
What about the Matrix movies? Wink
Those should be laudible causes for doubt in our own existence.

Is this just a simulation of some larger being's mind? A temporary dream in which we live?

Personally, I find it futile to question reality. There's really no evidence that can lead us in any one direction over another. It's all useless theories that take up our time. Sure it's fun to debate (which is why I'll probably return to this thread), but what do you really get out of it? I'd say just take reality for what it is, accept that you are wherever you are, and just keep on living. It's the only way you'll get anything done (unless your goal is to end up like "The Thinker," in some museum). Razz
Whong
We are here untill we die, after that either to heaven or to hell.

This is not a fiction, we are really here! Idea

Thats the way it is!
yeu9h1
No. Of course we think that we're here, but we'll never know. That, basically, is something related to the "External Realities". Even if those "External Realities" exist, we won't be able to know it -> there's no way to prove or disprove it Sad. Do you remember the story of a Chinese philosopher dreamed of being a butterfly?
Dr_Asik
"The Matrix" is no answer to this question, as one could put in doubt the "reality" of the Matrix, and postulate a Matrix-Matrix to explain it, and so on.

The question is: does anything ABSOLUTE exists, that doesn't depend on anything else to exist on it's own; if so, are we in connection with it?

So basically this goes along with the "God" debate.
Juparis
Dr_Asik wrote:
"The Matrix" is no answer to this question, as one could put in doubt the "reality" of the Matrix, and postulate a Matrix-Matrix to explain it, and so on.

"The Matrix" is an answer, regardless of your willingness to accept it as one.
Sure you could spend an eternity discussing how many matrices really exist, but the fact remains that it is a possibility and an answer to the original question. Wink

Just because it gets sticky doesn't mean you should just throw it into the trash.

Dr_Asik wrote:
The question is: does anything ABSOLUTE exists, that doesn't depend on anything else to exist on it's own; if so, are we in connection with it?

So basically this goes along with the "God" debate.

I'm gonna have to call you out on that. The title and initial poster agree, the question is indeed "do you believe that we are really 'here', and where is 'here' if we are?" That has nothing to do with God, but since you brought it up, I sense that you subconciously believe that God is the only "absolute" answer. Wink (only kidding)

Sorry if any of that offends you, but it irks me when people change the subject by putting words in other's mouths. If you expect that others would regard your opinions as facts, the best you can do is start your own thread and hope for the best. I'm pretty sure there'll be some opposition, however. Laughing
Dr_Asik
The Matrix might be an answer but it's not a solution, because if we cannot be sure that what we perceive is reality, then we cannot be sure that the matrix is reality either. There might be a superior layer, and then a supra-superior, and so on.

This question is therefore a particular case of epistemology; do our senses bring reality to our intelligence, do they twist it in some way, or do they actually produce what we think is reality (The Matrix theory)?
mantasx
Well, I'm sure that human brain isn't powerful enough to understand about the endless universe.(sinse we use 10% of it) I like to think about these kind of thing, a little bit too much. And when I do i come up with questions that can't let me cosantrate on little things such as listening or talking to other people. For example: there isn't anything faster than speed of light, If it is possible to build something like a train, that would fly at speed of light, wouldn't be possible to built another smaller one inside of it, and then another one, so in the end there would be a train two times faster than light? Many years ago artists would paint drawings in 2D, and couldn't even think about drawing 3D. In time people got smarted so they started to realize, that on a piece of paper you could ilustrate 3D! There is more than 3 dimesions, but we can't realize that. I think in time people will be able to answer all things like 20D, or speed of light, teleport.... In time. Wink
Juparis
Dr_Asik wrote:
The Matrix might be an answer but it's not a solution

That's all I was trying to say. We're looking for answers since there is no perfect solution anyway.

Dr_Asik wrote:
This question is therefore a particular case of epistemology; do our senses bring reality to our intelligence, do they twist it in some way, or do they actually produce what we think is reality (The Matrix theory)?

We perceive treeness, we can never perceive tree. Something like that. Razz (Socrates? or maybe Plato said it)

Anyway, I still don't see your take on the original question--got any thoughts we could expand on?

mantasx wrote:
(sinse we use 10% of it)

Sorry mantasx, but I gotta point out how wrong that myth is. Humans do use their entire brains. Not all at once, but we still use most of it. 10% is the amount someone in a coma is using, right after they pull the plug. Or something--regardless, I just wanted to point out we do use more than 10%. Wink

mantasx wrote:
I like to think about these kind of thing, a little bit too much. And when I do i come up with questions that can't let me cosantrate on little things such as listening or talking to other people. For example: there isn't anything faster than speed of light, If it is possible to build something like a train, that would fly at speed of light, wouldn't be possible to built another smaller one inside of it, and then another one, so in the end there would be a train two times faster than light?

No. The speed of light is a physical time barrier. We may one day be able to reach near-light-speed, but never will we be able to travel the same as or faster than the speed of light. Unless you become light, that is.
Even at near-light-speed, you have to keep in mind that the speed of light is absolute. So even when you're going 99% the speed of light, your still see the speed of light as if you were standing still. Does that make sense?
Like if one car is going 35mph and another is going 20mph. The person in the slower car sees the faster car going at 15mph. But with light, no matter how fast you go, the speed of light never changes by perception--it is absolute.

mantasx wrote:
There is more than 3 dimesions, but we can't realize that. I think in time people will be able to answer all things like 20D, or speed of light, teleport.... In time. Wink

If we really couldn't realize more than 3 dimensions, then you wouldn't have made that comment. Wink
Time and Space exist in the 4th dimension. I think that's all we know, as of yet. The prospect of teleporters would be pretty cool, though. I had an idea of one for myself, but I don't think it will catch on:

See, instead of physically transporting your body, you're simply killed off in the booth. In the booth of your desired destination, the DNA (collected on, at, or after death) is received (being transmitted from the first), and a clone is created. We just need to figure out how to make the new clone grow and unimaginably hyper speeds, and how to insert your memories. Then it would be as if you simply moved from one place to another. Spiffy, huh? Laughing
Verbato
To quote another poster quoting Descartes:
coitus...errr I mean cogito ergo sum

This does take care of the problem of whether I exist or not, which I do. However... It does not solve the problem of whether or not YOU exist...
Sparmactro
We are here (if you call here your mind) we will always be here, no matter where are we fisicaly. Because your mind is the only thing ńyou know is real, but when you see or feel something is just made by your brain (like matrix) so it is not real, is just a understandable representation of what is outside of your head, but you realy cant see it as it is.
Basil Joy
I really agrees with the last comment. The answer to the question where we are? really lies under realativity.The final result of relativity is infinity and infinity points to God.So it's all about faith and hope and above all assumptions. It's only the speed of life keeps you away from these thoughts.
jonarmel
We are without a doubt here, but we keep changing, not all of us, but most do, you and me are a learning curve, most get too involved in the non real, i will explain more, soon, we are all one and that is a fact, good or bad, confused, bet you are.
Dennise
The answer to your question depends on who's asking the question. If it's humans asking, the question is absurd. If we're not here, I wouldn't be making this reply.

If it's extraterrestrials asking, the question is really moot. If they are advanced enough to be aware of Earth's inhabitants then yes - we're here. If extraterrestrials are not aware of Earth existence or it's inhabitants, then no - we're not here.

Next question?
catscratches
By 'we', what we usually refer to is the mind. If we seperate brain and mind where mind is the abstract product of the brain, the question of the physical location of the mind is moot. It has no physical location as it is not a physical entity. It is neither here nor there.

The body we refer to as our body is the body as it is perceived by our mind. Since 'here' refers to its location in our perception, the answer is 'yes' by definition.

The question is perhaps rather whether the mind is truly a product of the brain or if it is the product of something else (perhaps something outside our perception). Naturally, it is for any practical application (as far as we know) but the true answer is unknowable.
pennine
The problem (or maybe the question) of other minds is one which has exercised philosophers for many hundreds of years. The problem can be expressed thus - given that I can only observe the behavior of others, how can I know that others have minds? One ripost is the following - the argument from analogy (other things have minds if they are sufficiently similar to us). Whether this is adequate for the sceptic is ???????
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