I'm a Christian and I love to eat meat. I'm allergic to almost every single fruit and vegitable out there, so my diet consists of meat, wheat and sugar.
I just stumbled upon this.
Here's a passage that's apparently from the Christian Bible.
I cannot, for the life of me, tell if it's a real passage. I've searched all over Google, but to no avail.
"Wherefore I say to all those who desire to be disciples, keep your hands from bloodshed and let no flesh meat enter your mouths; for the Lord is just and bountiful; who ordains that man shall live by the fruits and seeds of the earth alone. I am in all creatures and all creatures are in me. In all their joys, I rejoice. In all their afflictions, I am afflicted." 38:1-6
I can't seem to find what book of the Bible this is from.
Do ya'll think it's a real passage?
I have more meat eating passages I'll post later.
I sure hope it's fake!
One more thing. If all you have to say is, "I'm not Christian so I don't have to worry about it!" then you aren't contributing, and you aren't being cute.
/Just grumpy about this whole meat thing.
"One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." Romans 14:5-6 (New International Version)
Although it is true that in the Old testimont God indeed forbid people of eating unclean meat. But we must remember we're living under a new law. Jesus came to fulfil the law and so some of the old laws do not apply.
The Bible must be read as one whole book. It's sometimes dangerous to just quote one verse without looking at its context.. 
It doesn't sound like anything I have read before, but it has been awhile since I have read the entire Bible. I'll also try to find out what I can about the passage and post my findings here as well.
BTW....I am also a Christian and I eat meat regularly, just not on Fridays. That's how I was raised and nobody has told me, or shown me, that I have been wrong...with the exception of a couple of my friends who's contention was that red meat was bad for me. I have also dined with a couple of Catholic Priests and the main courses were (on differant occasions) either steak or roast beef...so given thier lead I assume it's alright. But assumptions can be dangerous too.
Gee Thanks....now you have me thinking 
I think that you read some modified or 'custumized' bible. Anyway, there was an specific day where eating meat was prohibited, but only for that day and I have not find any other restriction about eating meat.
You can go to http://www.bible.org/ to find out more information and good readings about the bible. I find it interesting that there is no book associated with that passage, so I can't tell. If it is true, it sounds like something in the Old Testament, and as Christians, our focus is primarily on the New Testament. It sounds sort of like the whole Jewish kosher thing.
You shouldn't eat meat on the Fridays of Lent though, as a "sacrifice" to the Lord.
We just started discussing this on the Vegetarian topic: http://www.frihost.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=230750#230750
here's a copy of most of my 2nd last post which contains some scripture:
The words of Jesus Christ:
| Quote: |
| "Thou shalt not kill, for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man take away. For I tell you truly, from one Mother proceeds all that lives upon the earth. Therefore, he who kills, kills his brother. And from him will the Earthly Mother turn away, and will pluck from him her quickening breasts. And he will be shunned by her angels, and Satan will have his dwelling in his body. And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his own tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and whoso eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats of the body of death. For in his blood every drop of their blood turns to poison; in his breath their breath to stink; in his flesh their flesh to boils; in his bones their bones to chalk; in his bowels their bowels to decay; in his eyes their eyes to scales; in his ears their ears to waxy issue. And their death will become his death." |
from Book One The Essene Gospel of Peace (Found In Vatican Library 1930)
http://www.ivu.org/history/christian/christ_veg.html
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/was_jesus_a_vegetarian.htm It's not in the Canon though it could be something from the Apocrypha.
| CompactHaven wrote: |
| 38:1-6 |
Where is the reference to what book it is in?
I begin to suspect this comes from something other than the bible.
*Thinks about religions that might impose vegitarianisim.*
Could it be from a holy book related to hiduisim?The "don't eat meat" passages refer to meat sacrificed to idols.
1 Corinthians 8:1-13:
| Quote: |
Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. |
kimrei: It doesn't look like Jesus was a vegetarian. John 21:9-13:
| Quote: |
Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.”
Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish. |
I'll just answer the initial question, though I could interact with a great deal more that was mentioned.
The passage you mentioned in the very first post is NOT from the Bible. Period. You can feel free and eat meat. Other passages mentioned about Jesus forbidding the eating of meat were also not from the Bible, except for the quote from 1 Corinthians about not eating meat sacrificed to idols. This later quote is a little out of date in most western societies since we rarely sacrifice our animals to pagan gods. More importantly than eating the meat was the process of the sacrifice, which include gross pagan actions, see Acts 15.
The Apocrapha was not quoted, but the vegetarian quotes come from what is called the psudopigripha. I misspelled that, sorry. psudo means (fake but resembling the real thing) and these books were typically written as children's stories and fiction about Biblical Characters and events, they were never intended to be considered scripture. Some are more interesting than others, but all should be considered pure fiction based upon a theme of either Biblical events or people.
Lastly, as a Christian, who is also a Jewish person, I would highly recommend that the comment, "We Christians really focus on the New Testament," revised to something more like, "We Christians are often far too focuses on the New Testament and really ought to know the whole Bible from top to bottom so that we can answer these kinds of questions when the come up and so that we can understand the nature of God better as He reveals Himself all throughout Scripture."
I hope this helps you.
And yes, I eat meat.
| Quote: |
Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.”
Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish. |
The bible translations about fish are kind of dodgy. I heard that when the word "fish" is used it is supposed to be synonymous with "sustenance".I think that you can't let some writing tell you what to eat. Average person needs meat also to keep his/her body in balance. If you ask me, it's not normal for person that has no diseases to eat some pills to get iron and stuff. I'm not trying to get anyone mad but that's the way I really see it.
Kimrei - where did you read the translations aren't accurate? Why is there so much emphasis on Simon Peter and his brother being fishermen and catching fish? I honestly don't think you know your bible at all.
Yes, we as Christians are to KNOW what the ENTIRE bible says - Old Testament AND New. Not just the New Testament. The 4 Gospels of the NT (Mat, Mark, Luke, John) are to get us started with an understanding of Christ's sacrifice for us, but we are to read the whole bible and know what it says. I'm nearly finished reading the bible for the first time (Took me 3 years longer than it should have but my reasons for that are in the past) and then I'm going to start again and I'll pay much more attention to what I'm reading because I want to be able to learn more and apply more.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| as Christians, our focus is primarily on the New Testament. It sounds sort of like the whole Jewish kosher thing. |
Where did you get that idea? As Christians, there are teachings especially in the Old Testament that we must know. The Old Testament is no less and no more important then the New Testament. Many of the prophecies relating to the events leading up to the Glorious Appearing are found in the Old Testament as well as Revelation.the bible is way too hypocritical to believe in. just do what you want as long as you don't take it for granted.
There is a general belief among modern Christians especially that they should focus on the New Testament and practically toss the Old out the window. The thing is though, that Jesus himself said that he did not come to do away with the Law, but to fulfil it.
His teachings show that we are to live the Law, not literally like the Pharisees, but from the heart, which is a greater Law, yet it comes with greater freedom too - eaching bearing what he can, and being forgiven (if repentant) for what he cannot.
Also, as the Apostle Paul pointed out - ALL scripture is inspired - for the Apostles, that would have meant mainly the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, the same Bible Christ himself quoted from.
Technically a Christian was supposed live the Law (a Jew) but with the freedom Christ gave by his sacrifice.b
If you are truly seeking a greater understanding of Christianity, read the works of the early Christians, and also the Didache (perhaps the oldest Christian document). At the very least, you need to read the ENTIRE Bible.
There's nothing wrong with meat, also keep in mind this is the bible that can be interpeted to support slavery. so go ahead and eat meat.
i find it hard when it comes to food and religion. as a scientist i'm not that naive to take all the rules for granted and I try to see us just as the rest of the animals around us (always a good place to start)
animals do not care if diary products are congested with or without meat to make it coosher, they do not mind to eat porc or veal but some set of rules, in fact : they do not mind to eat their own species (some anyway and luckely a great minority hence not enough to make this a standard behavior)
the balance between : harming species to make food - eating no animals is thin, so i try to please myself by saying : eat the meat (not high qty) but respect the source
From a strictly Biblical viewpoint it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat.
1) After the deluge (great flood), Noah was given permission to eat meat, by the Creator himself.
2) Jesus is known to have eaten fish, and as a Jew, he would also have eaten mutton. Not comment is made about other types of meat he may have been eaten, but he would have stuck to a Kosher diet.
3) The Apostles confirmed that it was acceptable to eat meat, and only meat that was strangled (may not eat blood) or sacrificed to idols (idolatary) was forbidden.
Even though Christians can eat meat, they should still stick as closely as possible to the Biblical food laws, since those same food laws provide a tremendous health benefit.
Look, for example, at the account of the 3 Hebrews who were sent to Babylon, they avoided the food of the Kings table and ate only fruit and vegetables and drank only water for 10 days, and came out looking much healthier that the other in the King's household.
I personal experienced great health benefits my eating mostly vegetables and fruit (one each of 3 different kinds every day), mutton once a week and fish and chicken once (sometimes) twice a week, I added no seasoning other than salt, cooked onions and garlic, etc., no herbs or spices. (Herbs are actually medicine!). I also drank only water or fruit juice (mixed with water).
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Last edited by Hogwarts on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
| Hogwarts wrote: |
Matthew 15: 10-11 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "
this answers all |
Yup, I have read that too. But it also has a deaper meaning I think: that you shouldn't confuse the rules made by men, put into the Bible, and the real rules to live by. Some rules in the Bible (in the Old Testament) are meant for hygienic purposes, and have nothing do to with God.Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
This does not say antything about meat the NIV has interpeted the word esthio {es-thee'-o} as meat and it literally means to consume nourishment.
The next thing I looked at was the statements in Gen. 1:29-30 (above) and Gen. 9:2-3 which says; And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. (KJV). Is it possible that God had always intended man to be a vegetarian and that it was only after sin became so bad that He had to flood the world and out of necessity God allowed man to eat meat? Note also hear that God said that at this time the beasts and animals will fear and dread man. This leads one to believe and is evident in the previous scriptures that man had a friendly relationship with all animals. It is only when God said they could consume meat that He also added that now all animals would fear man. There was now a separation between man and beast. So although God allows man to eat meat it is at a great price, the separation of man and beasts.
I think we are allowed to eat meat although it was not Gods original intension, because of this and the fact that Romans states the following; Romans 14:2-3 "For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."
God has allowed the eating of meat and Romans make it clear you can choose wheter or not you choose to eat it or not. Jeus also stated in Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. KJV
| kimrei wrote: |
| Quote: | Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.”
Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish. |
The bible translations about fish are kind of dodgy. I heard that when the word "fish" is used it is supposed to be synonymous with "sustenance". |
Yeah but you could also argue that a large portion of their diet was fish. As the focus of their diet the word may have taken on different meaning over time. (I'm also not 100% what you 'heard' is correct)
| Gieter wrote: |
| Hogwarts wrote: | Matthew 15: 10-11 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "
this answers all |
Yup, I have read that too. But it also has a deaper meaning I think: that you shouldn't confuse the rules made by men, put into the Bible, and the real rules to live by. Some rules in the Bible (in the Old Testament) are meant for hygienic purposes, and have nothing do to with God. |
A good example is the consumption of pork 
Well it in the old testament that the children of God were restricted from certain meet but the New trestament of Christ teaches us that God has santified everything.
1 Timothy 4: 4-5
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be recieved with thanksgiving: For it is santified by the word of God and prayer.
So you see give thanks through prayer and enjoy.
Maybe the Bible is filled with metaphors that sometimes we take too literally.
Just my take on that.
Most have hinted around the answer and here's my $0.02. There were restrictions (clean vs. unclean) on some animals or foods, like that used in a sacrifice, in the Old Testament. Just about everything is fair game today. We don't have to worry about sacrificed food b/c we don't have to make sacrifices anymore. And pork is ok now. I think the food classifications changed with the New Testament. I'm coming from a Christian perspective, so I can't speak for other religions on the food subject.
| bigt wrote: |
| Most have hinted around the answer and here's my $0.02. There were restrictions (clean vs. unclean) on some animals or foods, like that used in a sacrifice, in the Old Testament. Just about everything is fair game today. We don't have to worry about sacrificed food b/c we don't have to make sacrifices anymore. And pork is ok now. I think the food classifications changed with the New Testament. I'm coming from a Christian perspective, so I can't speak for other religions on the food subject. |
I wonder whether the New Testament version about meat OK meant an instruction to eat meat. As far as I can remember with regard to this New Testament quote, someone asked whether it was OK to eat something that was previously taboo, and then someone replied it was OK to eat it. It did not impose a whole set of new dietary guidelines on anyone. It just meant that that which is blessed by God is OK to eat. If the New Testament in its whole is taken as an example for diet and lifestyle, Jesus fasted many times for purification of thought and to meditate on some deep subjects. It sets an example of fasting being a good way of purifying mind, body and spirit. I think if one went through the New Testament carefully, that you could probably write a good book about dietary guidelines. | deanhills wrote: |
I wonder whether the New Testament version about meat OK meant an instruction to eat meat. As far as I can remember with regard to this New Testament quote, someone asked whether it was OK to eat something that was previously taboo, and then someone replied it was OK to eat it. It did not impose a whole set of new dietary guidelines on anyone. It just meant that that which is blessed by God is OK to eat. If the New Testament in its whole is taken as an example for diet and lifestyle, Jesus fasted many times for purification of thought and to meditate on some deep subjects. It sets an example of fasting being a good way of purifying mind, body and spirit. I think if one went through the New Testament carefully, that you could probably write a good book about dietary guidelines. |
Oh yes, you are correct. The New Testament doesn't say you must eat meat. I would say that both testaments stress discipline and moderation. Too much of any food is bad. Good point Deanhills.
