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Evil
Respond to this and what ever conversation follows we will lead on with. Do not be afraid of running off on your own tangents.
Here is what to respond to:
Moderator Edit: Please use quote tags when you copy and paste text from another source.
Here is what to respond to:
| Quote: |
| Did God Create Evil?
Did God create everything that exists? Does evil exist? Did God create evil? A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question: "Did God create everything that exists?" A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!" "God created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil." The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proved once more that the Christian faith was a myth. Another student raised his hand and s aid, "May I ask you a question, professor?" "Of course," replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The other students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact, sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat." The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does." The student replied, "Once again you are wrong, sir, darkness does not exist, either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wave lengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present." Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are noth ing else but evil." To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light." The professor sat down. The young man's name - - Albert Einstein.... |
Moderator Edit: Please use quote tags when you copy and paste text from another source.
Then what is the devil, if he is absolute evil he cannot exist, because he has no life in him, no soul, unless there is such a thing as bad souls and good souls. Angels and demons. the devil is real.
Einstein didn't say that. In fact, thats pretty much a c/p from
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
Anyway, the professor was wrong in the first place. A mans works don't define him, if they do, would they still if there was no society to place value on his merit?
Anyway, where am I going with this... ah, evil exists. The cold/light thing doesn't really apply the same way since both have a measurable coutnerpart, whereass "good" cannot be measured eitehr, and besides most followers of Descartes (Or any of his contemporaries) would tell you you can't prove the cold/light thing either.
The real conundrum is this: If God created Earth, the world, how did evil begin, how did he make someone imperfect enough to plant the seed of evil, did he create evil anyway, and if he made everything in the garden of Eden why did he make the forbidden fruit, the corrupt snake and why did he make Eve not able to choose the right path. And if Eve was made from Adam, and Adam from the image of God himself, then is God imperfect? He'd have to be, since a perfect God wouldn't mistakenly create evil, by accident.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
Anyway, the professor was wrong in the first place. A mans works don't define him, if they do, would they still if there was no society to place value on his merit?
Anyway, where am I going with this... ah, evil exists. The cold/light thing doesn't really apply the same way since both have a measurable coutnerpart, whereass "good" cannot be measured eitehr, and besides most followers of Descartes (Or any of his contemporaries) would tell you you can't prove the cold/light thing either.
The real conundrum is this: If God created Earth, the world, how did evil begin, how did he make someone imperfect enough to plant the seed of evil, did he create evil anyway, and if he made everything in the garden of Eden why did he make the forbidden fruit, the corrupt snake and why did he make Eve not able to choose the right path. And if Eve was made from Adam, and Adam from the image of God himself, then is God imperfect? He'd have to be, since a perfect God wouldn't mistakenly create evil, by accident.
Mmm. Urban legend
besides which the students argument is flawed. Here's an argument based on similiar logic against that type of reasoning.
we've all seen sober people
a sober person is simply a person in which there is a noted abscence of alcohol
therefore soberiety does not exist
and a person cannot be sober
but clearly they can, because, well...
It's just a concept that explains an idea except as an abscence. Such mundane things as tables or people are also just concepts for particular arrangements of matter, which also is only a concept. In all truth they only exist as our perceptions (so in reality God created nothing but arranged it in a way in which it wouldn't notice this) and function according to the rules that these abstract entities hypothetically hold over each other.
It could be said that (just supposing that the Christians are right) God only exists because others percieve him (tree falls in a forest, but there is no-one there to hear it, does it make a sound?) and without his existence there is no abscence of him so by creating us he created himself and therefore also created the possibility of there not being himself, "evil" (Ps, "no God"=="evil" is a little bit mean to the atheists).
Another easier argument is that if in the beggining there was nothing but God then naturally he was everything and there was no evil but then he created everything else, allowing certain things to exist without an inherent bit of deity and created evil.
besides which the students argument is flawed. Here's an argument based on similiar logic against that type of reasoning.
we've all seen sober people
a sober person is simply a person in which there is a noted abscence of alcohol
therefore soberiety does not exist
and a person cannot be sober
but clearly they can, because, well...
It's just a concept that explains an idea except as an abscence. Such mundane things as tables or people are also just concepts for particular arrangements of matter, which also is only a concept. In all truth they only exist as our perceptions (so in reality God created nothing but arranged it in a way in which it wouldn't notice this) and function according to the rules that these abstract entities hypothetically hold over each other.
It could be said that (just supposing that the Christians are right) God only exists because others percieve him (tree falls in a forest, but there is no-one there to hear it, does it make a sound?) and without his existence there is no abscence of him so by creating us he created himself and therefore also created the possibility of there not being himself, "evil" (Ps, "no God"=="evil" is a little bit mean to the atheists).
Another easier argument is that if in the beggining there was nothing but God then naturally he was everything and there was no evil but then he created everything else, allowing certain things to exist without an inherent bit of deity and created evil.
Woah that's very confusing.
So you seem to be saying god is nature itself (like mother nature)
I believe God exists completely independant in his own right, and that God created a human race to be capable of loving like he is (image of God).
So you seem to be saying god is nature itself (like mother nature)
I believe God exists completely independant in his own right, and that God created a human race to be capable of loving like he is (image of God).
Quite interesting topic over here...
I think that we would be able to better understand evil if we look at it from the bigger picture - creation indeed.
We agree God to be the creator of everything and furthermore that God is everything. We could even proclaim that God is creation before creation creating, in the sense that there exits no time for God... but this claim tends to be a very abstract view with very compelling arguments.
Let us concentrate on one of the most basic principles of creation, balance.
For as we know, in order for one to recognize light there needs to exist dark, for there exist no light only God would be able to recognize something outside this pattern as darkness. A famous quote sums it up for us "In the absence of that which is not, that which is, is not" - CwG.
So let us apply this principle of need for balance to the topic of evil in creation. When speaking of good, we will see that in the absence of evil it would be impossible for man to recognize good. For how do we define something good? We could say: something which has no evil from one's personal point of view. So, is there really such thing as evil? Indeed, if we look at the subject matter individually we may think of evil as that which is recognized as bad. Yet, when looking at evil as part of God's creation as a whole evil plays the role of a good itself, for without evil there would be no recognition of good. Is this claim clear?
I better stop here I must continue my readings for I have yet to write my thesis...
I think that we would be able to better understand evil if we look at it from the bigger picture - creation indeed.
We agree God to be the creator of everything and furthermore that God is everything. We could even proclaim that God is creation before creation creating, in the sense that there exits no time for God... but this claim tends to be a very abstract view with very compelling arguments.
Let us concentrate on one of the most basic principles of creation, balance.
For as we know, in order for one to recognize light there needs to exist dark, for there exist no light only God would be able to recognize something outside this pattern as darkness. A famous quote sums it up for us "In the absence of that which is not, that which is, is not" - CwG.
So let us apply this principle of need for balance to the topic of evil in creation. When speaking of good, we will see that in the absence of evil it would be impossible for man to recognize good. For how do we define something good? We could say: something which has no evil from one's personal point of view. So, is there really such thing as evil? Indeed, if we look at the subject matter individually we may think of evil as that which is recognized as bad. Yet, when looking at evil as part of God's creation as a whole evil plays the role of a good itself, for without evil there would be no recognition of good. Is this claim clear?
I better stop here I must continue my readings for I have yet to write my thesis...
Two things first, Good can be interjected for God and in Christianity disobedience of God's principles is evil.
I believe that the story is trying to say that the absence of God is disobeying Him. Disobedience is considered evil in every culture, whether it be disobeying the moral code, the laws of the land, or the laws of the god of that culture.
Use the top little paragraph and respond to the story in that light.
I believe that the story is trying to say that the absence of God is disobeying Him. Disobedience is considered evil in every culture, whether it be disobeying the moral code, the laws of the land, or the laws of the god of that culture.
Use the top little paragraph and respond to the story in that light.
So by that logic if God decreed that (random example) using an eraser is a sin then it would be an act of evil, despite lack of logical backing for this claim?
Personally Ithink that disobeying is good if you disobey a person for a reason that you find (in your own capacity) morally sound.
Perhaps we should try to further define evil.
Is not helping an old lady cross the street evil even though it is lack of possible good?
Here's a line from the bible written by St. Paul;
Timothy 1:2
This was written by a disciple, is in the bible and is clearly rubbish. Is it evil to not follow the teachings of St. Paul?
(Imagine for the following passage that christians are correct)
Supposing that one sees a new born baby surrounded by a corrupt family that will surely twist the childs mind, if that person sins by killing the baby to allow it untainted access to heaven rather than allow the possibility that the baby, when older be sent to hell, have they done a good thing?
Personally Ithink that disobeying is good if you disobey a person for a reason that you find (in your own capacity) morally sound.
Perhaps we should try to further define evil.
Is not helping an old lady cross the street evil even though it is lack of possible good?
Here's a line from the bible written by St. Paul;
Timothy 1:2
| Quote: |
| A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. |
This was written by a disciple, is in the bible and is clearly rubbish. Is it evil to not follow the teachings of St. Paul?
(Imagine for the following passage that christians are correct)
Supposing that one sees a new born baby surrounded by a corrupt family that will surely twist the childs mind, if that person sins by killing the baby to allow it untainted access to heaven rather than allow the possibility that the baby, when older be sent to hell, have they done a good thing?
I believe evil exists, my definition of what exactly evil is may differ from someone elses, but that in itself does not make either definition wrong or less accurate. We are all entitled to our opinions and this particular subject is no differant. I personally believe evil is cruelty in it's highest or most sadistic form. To cause another pain simply for the enjoyment of the act is to me evil. But for some they may see evil in a differant way. Is one persons view any better than anothers? Or possible more accurate? I don't think so, evil is evil, you can describe it any way you wish...but the end result is still the same...evil does exist and will continue to exist as long as thier is "Good" in people. Without good I don't believe there can be evil by definition as what would you have to compare it to? I don't think of evil being the anti-thesis of good, nor as an opposing factor, one is simply the obverse of the same coin, with both sides making up the whole.
| kimrei wrote: |
| ....
we've all seen sober people a sober person is simply a person in which there is a noted abscence of alcohol therefore soberiety does not exist and a person cannot be sober but clearly they can, because, well... |
Forgive me, but isn't that arguement kind of like saying "my table has legs, and my dog has legs, so therefore my dog is a table"?
That's the point.
It's a stupid argument and is supposed to be a stupid argument.
It's a stupid argument and is supposed to be a stupid argument.
kimrei In Christianity, God gave us our conscience. We have free will and it can be influenced and our morals can be changed by our own discretion. Satan can tempt us and with sin we can harden ourselves against God's will. Humans nowadays make morals subjective and whatever feels right, is right for that moment. With your biblical verses about women, some of that was in the old testament and you have to realize that Jesus was the second covenant and new laws came with him. He fulfilled the old covenant. He gave prayer a purpose. Also, Jesus couldn't just say GIVE WOMEN EQUALITY because of the culture of the time. They had to ease into it. I am busy right now. Respond and I will be more extensive. I know that there are a lot of holes in this arguement and I will address them if you respond when I have more time.
| Quote: |
| The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created
evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil." |
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!
God created my hamster, too. Does that mean God is my hamster? Of course not!
"Evil" is a strange concept. I'm not sure the word appears in the bible anywhere, and yet we use it to describe God's opposition, personified by Satan himself.
God DID create Satan, and He did create us in His image. With a nature to question. And that "sinful nature" that we share with Satan is the desire to challenge God, to be greater than God, to oppose God.
Is this what we mean when we use the word evil?
If it is, then yes, it is very real.
But I don't for a minute believe in a force of evil which is
equal and opposite to God. The Bible is very clear that God created Satan, and Jesus defeated him.
So the popular cultural idea of "evil" and the biblical character of Satan are, in fact, very different. I believe in one, but not the other.
The argument stated is really silly. I don't know the context, so maybe it's intended to be silly.
Anyway, I don't believe in 'evil', because 'evil' is an abstract concept, created by men who tried to categorize things in 'good' and 'evil.' It's something artificial. Not everything is 100% good or 100% bad. Things are often not black or white, but grey (I know it's a cliché, but I use this to make this clear.)
And I certainly not believe in 'evil' as something organized by an entity, or as an organized force by itself.
Anyway, I don't believe in 'evil', because 'evil' is an abstract concept, created by men who tried to categorize things in 'good' and 'evil.' It's something artificial. Not everything is 100% good or 100% bad. Things are often not black or white, but grey (I know it's a cliché, but I use this to make this clear.)
And I certainly not believe in 'evil' as something organized by an entity, or as an organized force by itself.
Well, God didn't create evil, and it wasn't His intention to have it. Lucifer disobeyed God, and rebelled against him, because he wanted to be all-powerful. So God cast him to Hell, and thus began evil.
Then, after God created humans, Eve disobeyed God by eating fruit from the tree God had forbidden them to eat off of, as a test of their fidelity. They failed, and we now live in a fallen world. It's almsot like opening Pandora's box.
Then, after God created humans, Eve disobeyed God by eating fruit from the tree God had forbidden them to eat off of, as a test of their fidelity. They failed, and we now live in a fallen world. It's almsot like opening Pandora's box.
did god create guns, no he created the things we use to create guns. God created angels, one (satan/the devil) had a issue and he "created" if you will evil.
Hey guyz... I think everything have its opposites... ColdxHot LovexHate etc.. but the only thing that doesn't have opposite is the Supreme Being itself. The thing Evil as Albert einstien said; is just a word to see the presence of God and at what meassurment he/she have it in his/her heart.
And according to our culture.. and meaning of words. The word GOD is not the supreme being itself. but a face of supreme being itself. for example different people understand the same thing when we tell them in different ways right. so as the principle of Supreme being. So you say we have multiple Gods. But the fact is that we got one supreme being that we can't see or draw the picture of.
Any questions, comments, suggestions or monumentary contributions. please reply.
And according to our culture.. and meaning of words. The word GOD is not the supreme being itself. but a face of supreme being itself. for example different people understand the same thing when we tell them in different ways right. so as the principle of Supreme being. So you say we have multiple Gods. But the fact is that we got one supreme being that we can't see or draw the picture of.
Any questions, comments, suggestions or monumentary contributions. please reply.
Before i thought that evil existed but now.... im not that sure.
probably not cause that man was smarter than me
probably not cause that man was smarter than me
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