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Ethnic Cleansing and Purification





Lennon
Quote:
The latest news over all of palestine is that King Herod has ordered all children 3 yrs old and younger to be put to death. the news comes as 3 heads of state on a visit to the province of Judah arrived for a foreign tribute a newborn child destined to be the greatest king in history.


Quote:
The nazi government has issued a new declaration which removes some Jewish priveleges in society; no jews shall be allowed walk on the main footpaths and must be wearing a David Star at all times in clear view while in public places. Any Jew found in breach of these terms will be punishable by imprisonment.


Quote:
Cortez has won great honor and privelege in the court of the King of Spain. With great might and power he has expanded the empire of the King to new horizons into the new world and returned vast riches to the homeland. He has without fail managed to defeat the terrible Aztec civilisation into eternal damnation. With such faith in God and esteem for the King, Hernando Cortez kept both in his heart, converting so many pagans into Christianity, using their idolatorous wealth for the Good of God and for the King etc...

Quote:
The Catholic Church has announced war on the Muslim Faith over the reoccupation of Jerusalem. All Catholics have been requested in the aid of the crusades towards Jerusalem to sanctify and purify the Holy City. Positions as footsoldiers and archers are now vacant and we as the Vatican of the Catholic Church oblige you the faithful to take courage and hold steadfast against the evil Muslim faith, an abomination to the lord Jesus christ (13th Century)


Anything new? But yet the easiest thing to do is think that we're right.

You seen this happen in Sudan last year, in Yugoslavia 10 years ago, in Pakistan/India 50 years ago, In Ireland for the last 200 years, in Korea 40 years ago, in Germany 60 years ago, in Israel for the last 50 years, in Ethiopia/eritrea for the last 20 years, in America 500 years ago.

And no matter what kind of peace treaty or war taken to fix the problem, it only seems to make things worse. So where does the solution lie?
darknez3
I don't think it is possible that Christian/Catholic religion would declare war on Muslim. Pope John Paul II introduced the Nostra Aetate which stated that no matter how hostile or tense the relations with the opposing religion are, Christians and Catholic shall remain at state of peace. Leading me to believe that your exerpts are dating back to World War II when Hitler sent Jewish people to concentration camps, and sooner to another camp (forgot name) where they would gas them in groups. Yes, Star of David was enforced then.
Jeslyn
Where are the quotes from? There are quite a few spelling mistakes for it to be from legit areas
darknez3
Copied from a history textbook? World Religions textbook?
Lennon
Look, you're not getting my point.

The King Herod story was in the bible
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/herod.htm

The Crusades in the past, you have to know what they are.
Cortez in the 16th century.

My point is, do we keep on getting rid of unwanted waste, like in the old days wiping out civilisations or fighting enemy groups or maybe euthinasia? Society tends to repeat itself.
Vrythramax
Lennon wrote:
...The Crusades in the past, you have to know what they are.
Cortez in the 16th century.

My point is, do we keep on getting rid of unwanted waste, like in the old days wiping out civilisations or fighting enemy groups or maybe euthinasia? Society tends to repeat itself.


errr....I hate to belabor a point here but what actually determines if a human life is "unwanted waste"? Most, if not all, of the people that were quoted in those statistics have been beaten down by history as being just a bit over the top in thier methods...given that, would they themselves be considered unwanted waste?

I do agree that people in power, and entire governments, have sought to get rid of entire races of people thoughout history and it's not anything new. It seems that since World War 2 it has been brought more to the public eye and condemned for what it really is...systematic murder. I think this is largly due to the advent of the modern day media and things like the History channel and such. I don't think there really is any solution here, as long as people are in power, power itself will used and abused as a means to an end.

"Power currupts, and absolute power currupts absolutly"

Edited for spelling.
Lennon
Yes unwanted waste. Killing off the elderly when they're no longer capable of work. rejecting the diseased and disabled in society, killing people you want out of your life. Hitler wanted to kill all jews etc. Killing people who say something that might offend your beliefs. Killing innocent people to get what you want. The death penalty to kill off all the really bad criminals - unwanted waste?
Soulfire
darknez3 wrote:
I don't think it is possible that Christian/Catholic religion would declare war on Muslim. Pope John Paul II introduced the Nostra Aetate which stated that no matter how hostile or tense the relations with the opposing religion are, Christians and Catholic shall remain at state of peace. Leading me to believe that your exerpts are dating back to World War II when Hitler sent Jewish people to concentration camps, and sooner to another camp (forgot name) where they would gas them in groups. Yes, Star of David was enforced then.

You do know that Christianity and Catholic are the same thing, right?
nopaniers
I don't think throwing up your hands and saying "It's been going on for so long, how can we fix it" is going to help.

Peace treaties do help. Surely Ireland is a better place for the peace process? And Burundi just had elections a few months ago. Isn't that a good thing? They're not killing each other. In fact, the 1990's were one of the peaceful decades in history thanks mainly to the UN's good work in stopping conflicts in Africa.

When I was in third grade we asked our teacher why he was a teacher. He said, "Today your parents run the world, but tomorrow it will be you." And now it is us. Nothing is except what we make it. There is no reason to accept that just because people have been bad in the past that we have to keep doing the same thing.
Lennon
Well if you've seen the news from Ireland we had an orange march in dublin last week that ended up in riots, where the shopping district in Dublin City Centre was turned into a warzone with burnt-out cars, shops broken into and raided, pavements torn up and bricks thrown around, the riot squad left defenseless etc. The peace process still hasn't really worked out yet... The negotiation approach is a healthy sign of recovering relationships, but forced or pressured negotiations tend to bring disaster.
Vrythramax
nopaniers wrote:
I don't think throwing up your hands and saying "It's been going on for so long, how can we fix it" is going to help.

Peace treaties do help. Surely Ireland is a better place for the peace process? And Burundi just had elections a few months ago. Isn't that a good thing? They're not killing each other. In fact, the 1990's were one of the peaceful decades in history thanks mainly to the UN's good work in stopping conflicts in Africa.


I am an Irish American born in the US to Irish immigrant parents. I can't say if I know that Ireland is better off because of the peace process, all I can say for sure is that my parents left Ulster in the late 50's due to the troubles....and they are still going on. I agree that peace treaties do help, but only if both sides are truely willing to follow them.

Peace can never be sustained with a boot on your throat.
CompactHaven
I agree that Catholics cannot stage a war. Then again, no body can stage a war as a whole, just the lunes of the group.
The whole thing is stupid.
Soulfire
CompactHaven wrote:
I agree that Catholics cannot stage a war. Then again, no body can stage a war as a whole, just the lunes of the group.
The whole thing is stupid.

Catholics wouldn't stage a war, we have more tolerance than the (radical) Muslims. No, I'm not saying Catholic superiority or anything, just putting that out there. It's not often you find Catholics flying airplanes into buildings.

But anyways, it has happened, it is happening, and it will continue happening as long as we humans continue to think the way we do. If something is different, or DIVERSE, than we don't like it and try to eliminate it. It seems that everyone is preaching that diversity is good, but nobody is practicing what they preach.

There will always be the few people who think they themselves, their race, their gender, or their religion are better than everyone elses. And they will also think that the only solution is to eliminate the others.

It's unavoidable, the best we can do is spread knowledge, not violence, hopefully that will at least reduce some of this stuff.
Bondings
Soulfire wrote:
CompactHaven wrote:
I agree that Catholics cannot stage a war. Then again, no body can stage a war as a whole, just the lunes of the group.
The whole thing is stupid.

Catholics wouldn't stage a war, we have more tolerance than the (radical) Muslims. No, I'm not saying Catholic superiority or anything, just putting that out there. It's not often you find Catholics flying airplanes into buildings

The flying into buildings was something original and hence not predicted and that's why it killed so many people. It only happened once if I'm not mistaken.

Now read again Lennon's post. He's talking about his country, Ireland. Those riots were not caused by muslims, but by christians. The IRA already murdered a lot of people the latest decades.

The same for the ETA.

Ever heard of the "Lord's Resistance Army" (or "Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army")? They are responsible for 12.000 murders and over 20.000 kidnapped children as sex slaves (girls) or soldiers (boys).

There are hundreds of examples, just for 'christian' terrorists. And they are as christian as the muslim terrorists are muslim.

You can give hundreds of examples for each religion, including budhism.
nopaniers
For people's information there's links to the orange march in Dublin here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1718248,00.html
NewGuyinTown
Interesting... I am reading a book called A Problem from Hell By Samatha Power. Talks about genocide and ethnic cleansing.

There are people out there wants to raise awareness and get people to act. United States have done nothing to prevent a genocide such as the Armenian Genocide, Holocaust, and Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. It was too late when the United States responded.

But I never believe awareness will change the response of any country to not let genocide happen again if we cannot overcome our fear [of death]. There are always self-interest behind the United States actions.

We can never get rid of hatred and stop people from homicide, but I believe we can atleast reduce it.

"Never Again."
Soulfire
Bondings wrote:
Soulfire wrote:
CompactHaven wrote:
I agree that Catholics cannot stage a war. Then again, no body can stage a war as a whole, just the lunes of the group.
The whole thing is stupid.

Catholics wouldn't stage a war, we have more tolerance than the (radical) Muslims. No, I'm not saying Catholic superiority or anything, just putting that out there. It's not often you find Catholics flying airplanes into buildings

The flying into buildings was something original and hence not predicted and that's why it killed so many people. It only happened once if I'm not mistaken.

Now read again Lennon's post. He's talking about his country, Ireland. Those riots were not caused by muslims, but by christians. The IRA already murdered a lot of people the latest decades.

The same for the ETA.

Ever heard of the "Lord's Resistance Army" (or "Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army")? They are responsible for 12.000 murders and over 20.000 kidnapped children as sex slaves (girls) or soldiers (boys).

There are hundreds of examples, just for 'christian' terrorists. And they are as christian as the muslim terrorists are muslim.

You can give hundreds of examples for each religion, including budhism.

Then I fail to see how these "Christian terrorists" are Christian at all, they aren't, and should not be represented as such, no matter what they claim. And as for the only happening once thing, yes it did, but that's merely one example out of too many to list.
Bondings
Soulfire wrote:
Then I fail to see how these "Christian terrorists" are Christian at all, they aren't, and should not be represented as such, no matter what they claim.

The thing is that a lot of muslims fail to see how these "muslim terrorists" are muslim at all, they aren't, and should not be represented as such, no matter what they claim.

Christian terrorists --> not christian
Muslim terrorists --> muslim

Something is wrong here, don't you think? In both cases the religion is being abused to justify terroristic actions.
Lennon
At the end of the day, religious beliefs, ethnic group or age shouldn't affect our relationships. It's paranoia, xenophobia or just plain hatred that seperates us from our fellow humans. The reasons for war like religion or threat are often just excuses for the inner demon. Why else would someone want to elinate all the kids of the Herod reign, or eliminate all the jews, or elimate all the non-blonde, non-blue eyed people.
eirc
no religion clearly states the "death to the infidels" thing but people from all religions have tried it. it's not the religion itself that drove them crazy, it's the ideas their parents or peers taught them.
in greece where i live many times after big soccer games, die-hard team fanatics beat each other.if those people had the power they would launch a civil war against the people who like other teams! it's the same thing with religion.
if someone belives in anything too much and he is not really "bright" he will be driver to do such crimes.
i believe the only thing that would solve this whole mess is education. if at school we were tought about the declerations of human rights and not about how the local religon is the best one, many of those events whould not happen. and of course the same thing goes for what our parents teach us.
on the other hand all goverments all around the world don't want people to be aware of that so that they will keep their current power, so this leads to local rebellions,which is a thing i don't believe in as inoccent blood would surely be spilled..
it's really a huge problem to solve and i belive that the best way to solve it would be the Gandi way.
if only more Gandis were born....

PS: sorry for my english Sad
Garnet
I think something that contributes is the way one terrorist is able to represent an entire population. Because of our newspapers etc, it has become so easy to picture a religion being made up of all the same people. There can be a man who bombs a train station, and a little girl who's helping to make dinner. Certainly people can imagine the little girl but likely she won't be placed under her religion in the minds of others who would attack it.
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