Basicly this topic is about any contradictions that people have found in the bible, so just come and share your thouts.
*** One of my favorites is the explanation for people speaking so many different language, im sure many people know the storie but a quick summary about is:
Basicly many men begin building a huge building, they are attempting to go past the clouds and see heaven, this wich ofcourses pisses god off and he magically makes all the men speak different languages so they can't understand eachother. Therefore without communication the building cannot be finished and chaos goes through the area and many die, thanks god.
Well the message to this is to basicly not challenge god, or you will loose for sure, but how can a god be so great if he makes himelf obeyed by using fear on his own creation?
The contradiction to this storie is simple people know a days have gone -way past the clouds, even walked on the moon and currently are exploring Mars, and on the way to Pluto. So, this 'heaven' that go was so worried about humans seeign is clearly not there. When we whent past the clouds why didn't god stop us? or is he not there? this is a very basic contradiction .
***
Another contradiction that is always amuzing is the Virgin Mary. This one is so simple, yet hilarious that others beleive in her. Im sure you all know the storie so I won't go in depth through it. First of all, this was in the BC years and think about this the young woman Mary was pregnant and not married wich was a huge deal back then, what would you have done?. So, then Mary begins saying that it was god who got her pregnant, wow what a coincidence, one can already begin seeign how easy to contradict the whole 'Jesus birth' storie. The woman basicly lied to save her life and honor wich many people would resonably do, I wonder what the reaction would be if a teen where to say that god impregnated her, I bet everyone would find it hilarious simply because commen knowledge is much more advanced. Im not trying to upset people by saying that the Virgin Mary
is dumb, because it's a nice storie... but that's all it is.
***
-Finally, it's funny how every single bible is so different when there was only one original one, where did all the new books in the bible come from? When the original hebrew bible only has around four...
-Funny, how Jesus teachings where basicly the same things as Buddhas only difference was that Buddha lived way before Jesus was even born...
- Noa's Ark is the same thing as The Epic of Gilgamesh only difference is that The Epic of Gilgamesh is beleived to be the oldest text in history even older than the bible, people need to open their eyes. The only way to ever gain knowledge is to question everything.
I am not even going to try to asnwer any of the contradictions that you have outlined here, and I have stopped trying to find answers to any of the ones I myself have found...I instead try to console myself with the thought that possibly those contradictions and the doubts they inevitably cause, are put there as a test of our faith.
God has shown over time that he/she or it, has an appetite for testing each of us and our faith. It's been shown all through the Bible and in many personal stories I have heard. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I don't know if everything in the Bible is 100% true, or even accurate, I only state that it is entirely possible that the questions that arise from the anomolies in the text may have been put there as a test in the first place.
I have my faith, and nothing anybody can say or show me will shake that. I just don't run around trying to force my personal beliefs on anyone else. If that makes me a bad Catholic/Christian in another mans eyes....I can deal with that....it's God's eyes I am concerned with.
Well the 'faith' that you are talking sounds like ignorance simply because one can see that you refuse to listen to anything that can possibly contradict your beleifs, even commen sense. I don't see how your faith can possibly be helpfull when it's keeping you ignorant... But that's only my opinion if you need the bible to be a better person then go ahead.
Ok, he may be unwilling to speak back on these contradictions but I will. It is ok not to respond to AzTeK if that is how you work. But it isn't how I work. Ok, here is the deal.
First thing I want to address is that those are the funniest fabrications of contradictions of the Bible I have ever heard. Learn your facts bud. Here is the deal on Babel. Pride is the ultimate sin in Christianity and God was trying to stop the people of this earth from making that mistake. He knew that if he let man get away with thinking they were gods then they would become even more prideful and walk away from him. He didn't want to lose his favorite creation. And where does it say in the Bible that loads of people died from the language switch. Nowhere. Also, Babel is a representation of how powerful God is. Scientists today have figured out that language is at the deepest part of a man's brain or conscousness. God being able to change that is a remarkable feat.
Second, the Virgin Mary. Saying that her child was God's child did not get her out of any trouble. When she was in Bethelehem she went to an inn and they didn't have a room for her. Don't you think that in this day and age if people actually beieved your child was from God they might kick somebody out of their room to make room for the divine. Hmmmmm.
Ok, Bible's are so different in some ways nowadays because some people write them with an agenda because people have lost their respect for God. When the KJV was written, the time in which it was translated England was ruled by the Anglican church or the Church of England as it is also referred to. This may have been a bit bad with some people abusing the power of the church, but at least everything was done to the fullest of its extent with out a political agenda.
How was the Epic of Gilgamesh's age determined? If it was radiometric dating or carbon-14 dating, then its age is not known because those are horribly flawed forms of dating materials. You can walk into a room and see a candle burning but if you weren't there when it started then you don't know how long its been burning or how tall it was when it was started. Take in all the factors boy.
Here is an interesting statistic that I noted recently. In every major world religion, except Christianity, the great leader of that religion underwent a time of darkness and confusion just like every human being. Jesus didn't. He knew what he was doing from an early age. Look at the passage where the temple elders are amazed with his understanding of the scriptures at such a young age, age of 12 is what the Bible says.
Hey this is fun talking about. There are probably holes in my arguement that you can point out. Please do so I can research them and strengthen my own faith. I would like to say I do this in total sport and truth-seeking. I am a true liberal. I find something and stick with it until it is disproved. So far with Christianity, it hasn't been done. I would also like to point out that science itself points towards a creator, not random chance. Another goal for God-lovers world round.
Umm sorry to point this out but you seem to point out many sections of the bible, you do know that the bible is nothing but a myth also?. Therefore it cannot be used for facts, because nothing it says can be proved right or wrong.
Mary might of not gotten a room while she was pregnant, but she did get alot of respect when 'god's baby was born. Also, if we whant this to be exact then Jesus isn't even God's son... In the bible it says that God sent one of his angels to Mary therefore Jesus beign the son of the Angel not god.
There is many other weak points in the bible, was Jesus perfect? No he wasn't. In the bible Jesus got mad after seeign men performing sin's in God's own home and he whent into the market and had his own little rage, this action alone prooves that Jesus was not perfect, because perfect means never making errors, Jesus could of been perfect the rest of his life but he would of never been completely perfect just because of his actions that day.
This is just a few extra things that I have found, I will keep finding more...
Btw please don't try and back your opnions up by using the bible wich is not a book of facts, it's as credible as a storie book...
| AzTeK wrote: |
| Btw please don't try and back your opnions up by using the bible wich is not a book of facts, it's as credible as a storie book... |
Before we accept this, you need to prove it.
The Bible has been proven to be historically accurate. Historians have constantly said that Luke messed up (in the book of Acts) on positions of cities, etc. There were some cities (such as Nazereth) they said never even existed. But time and agian, archaeology has proven Luke right and the historians wrong.
The Old Testament had many prophesies relating to the coming Messiah. Jesus fulfilled many of those prophecies (the rest, we believe, He will fulfill when He returns).
I have never seen any valid contradiction (I have, however, seen better possibilities than I have seen here) in the Scriptures. Until I do, I will believe them to be true.
| AzTeK wrote: |
Another contradiction that is always amuzing is the Virgin Mary. This one is so simple, yet hilarious that others beleive in her. Im sure you all know the storie so I won't go in depth through it. First of all, this was in the BC years and think about this the young woman Mary was pregnant and not married wich was a huge deal back then, what would you have done?. So, then Mary begins saying that it was god who got her pregnant, wow what a coincidence, one can already begin seeign how easy to contradict the whole 'Jesus birth' storie. The woman basicly lied to save her life and honor wich many people would resonably do, I wonder what the reaction would be if a teen where to say that god impregnated her, I bet everyone would find it hilarious simply because commen knowledge is much more advanced. Im not trying to upset people by saying that the Virgin Mary
is dumb, because it's a nice storie... but that's all it is. |
First, Joseph could have had her stoned. Why didn't he?
Second, claiming to be carrying God's Son would be considered blasphemy.
Mary would not lie about carrying God's Child. There was too much at stake.The bible also said the earth was flat. What could Mary possibly have to loose? If she where to have a kid and not be married she would be ruined socially wich was probably the worst thing that could happen to a women, keep in mind this was thousands of years ago. Jesus actually didn't fullfill many of his prophecies, he was not even the real mesiah in the Hebrew bible wich is the original bible the fact that everyone uses a bible that has been completely changed is ironic and that they beleive it's all facts. The Hebrew bible is the only original word of God, that is why the hebrew bible has few books because Moses was the one to actually fullfill many of the prophesies and that is why he is considered to be the real mesiah... Please don't try and tell me that the bible is all facts some stories are so foolish that only a kid could beleive (and they do), the main thing is that there has been many prophets that have been 'accurate' in predictions, so is that all coincidience or are they also in touch with god? Btw the Aztec calendar has not been wrong in any of it's predictions also the only catch is that their calendar ends in 2012, please I need more facts, find real facts not only the bible because nothing in the bible has been proven all the 'proof' is text (wich is hardly credible) there has never even been actuall proof of Jesus, finally christians don't beleive in dinasours, something that is basicly proven so the bible is obviously missing many important facts. Finally, for one to beleive that life has only been around for a few thousand years is laughable, since anyone with any scientific knowledge knows that the simplest adoption/evolution takes thousands to millions of years.
Yay, it's time for everyones favorite secular nutcase to chime in! Me!
First of all, you can't talk sense to these people Aztek, it's just not possible.
| Quote: |
doubts they inevitably cause, are put there as a test of our faith.
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That kind of rationalization scares me. The fact that even when he cannot see any logical end to which his argument would be correct he still cannot let go of his mindless need to follow whatever has brain washed him till this time.
Ah well, every culture needs sheep to slaughter I suppose. One of my favorite things about 'God' is that the wonderfull creator gives us a choice, to eather beleive in him or not... But if you don't beleive in him you will burn for internity in hell, wow what a god.
I know they have been washed for too long, it's amazing how many people in my highschool are so easy to talk sense too. Many of them have doubts but are forced to go to church, but one can clearly see how religion is all a strong brain washing process, ill explain a bit of info. on it.
- The Red Scary Devil
Funny how ugly the devil is, especially when the bible says that he was God's most beutifull angel. So, why draw the devil so ugly, simply to scare children, when asked ofcourse the kid is going to look at Jesus differenty than the devil. It's that simpe that's why the devil is a red dragon who breaths fire, meh all religion really is based on is fear, thats what it makes, thats how they get you.
| AzTeK wrote: |
- The Red Scary Devil
Funny how ugly the devil is, especially when the bible says that he was God's most beutifull angel. So, why draw the devil so ugly, simply to scare children, when asked ofcourse the kid is going to look at Jesus differenty than the devil. It's that simpe that's why the devil is a red dragon who breaths fire, meh all religion really is based on is fear, thats what it makes, thats how they get you. |
Let's say the devil is evil in it's purest form and has intelligence also, else it wouldn't be evil, just dumb. If evil want's to make victims then why would it appear so hidious that people would start running away. Much easier to pretend to be true and kind and beautiful, that lures and fools all people and would make taking victims much easier.
I don't agree with you saying that all religion is based on fear. Some religions like satanism are but most religions only knows the punishment for those who have done bad and in the end the gods will cradle everyone in their arms.
And as for a contradictory story:
The bible says when hit turn the other cheek. It also says an eye for eye a tooth for a tooth.What I meant by 'religion is based on fear' is that most religious people beleive simply because they don't whant to go to hell. Most religions repeat over and over the consequences of not beleiving wich scare anyone and therefore making them be more dedicated to religion this is what I mean by religions using fear to make people listen and it works very well.
Ok, first, the bible does not say that the world is flat.
The heavens was interpretated as the sky by our ancestors (they couldn't know any better). Of course the tower wasn't built to reach heaven, it wasn't like a stairway to heaven or anything, just a kind of skyscraper.
Jesus' teachings are very different than the buddha. The buddha is all about your inner self, while Jesus teachings are about less of yourself and more of others and God.
One original bible??? (I need solid historical evidence)
The real bible has the pentateuch with Moses as the author, the Chronicler, and some other writers through the ages. Assembled over the years.
My faith is not ignorant. The Catholic Church is open to the theory of evolution since God always has a role in science, and what we learn will just bring us closer to learning that role (intelligent design). We are open to other people's feelings and opinions, but we also know where to draw the line between right and wrong (not just a personal opinion but defined in the Catechism or bible or other religious dogma's). We don't necessary take Genesis word for word you know, maybe the atheists are ignorant of that. We can believe in Intelligent Design too you know, so if you point the finger at Christians for being ignorant of the truth you are pointing three fingers back at yourself.
Where, oh where do you find that the bible is just a myth, that's just an opinion just like the bible is fact, also an opinion, we just have to be open to both sides, we don't know what really happened in the author's head, whether it was fantasy or divine inspiration, just like nostradamus, some of the prophecies in the bible are striking, or just coincidence, you decide.
Jesus was angry, that's not imperfection. He has feelings too, that's how human he is. He wasn't consumed by anger, he just made a stand to speak out against all the corruption just like any demonstrator would do. Think of all the hero's out there who fought for justice and righteousness. He was doing the right thing, not the wrong thing.
There really is proof of a Jesus in the Roman province of Judah around 33AD who caused a religoius disturbance.
My faith can be very logical, given Intelligent Design I can apply as much scientific theories as I like and still find room for God.
Another contradiction listed was "turn the other cheek" Vs "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus asked people to stop using the eye for eye and tooth for tooth, that even though the ancestors have been doing it all along, it is wrong and instead we should turn the other cheek.
No, an example of fear is sin and evil and hell. We don't believe in being scared into doing the right thing. We believe in eternal happiness and that we are wanting to go to heaven. We would like perfection and eternal life in heaven, where we can meet our departed loved ones. Ever been to a funeral? ever want to meet them in the next life. That's the inspiration that drives us forward in the search for heaven, not some whip of punishment of sin and hell.
First of all the bible is only a myth because it cannot be proven right or wrong, and that is all there is to that... Ill even give you the defenition of a myth:
"A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth."
Jesus was not perfect and anyone who even knows what perfect is will admit it, obviously your defenition of perfect is incorrect, heres one:
"Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind."
Computers are supposed to be perfect machines, so would you expect one to get something wrong? If it does do something incorrectly it's not perfect.
Also, religious people are the least tolerant towards any type of science, im sure if you check out history you will find the wonderfull things that religious people did to scientist "heathens"...
The Hebrew bible is the originall one im sure if you read the bible, you will see that the bible is directed towards jews and written by jews. Nothing you can argue agaisn't this.
| Quote: |
| My faith is not ignorant. |
This is laughable considering the defenition of faith is:
"Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."
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| There really is proof of a Jesus in the Roman province of Judah around 33AD who caused a religoius disturbance. |
Please, do you have any idea how many religious disturbances have occured in all this time? This is not even close to beign credible...
| Quote: |
| No, an example of fear is sin and evil and hell. We don't believe in being scared into doing the right thing. We believe in eternal happiness and that we are wanting to go to heaven. We would like perfection and eternal life in heaven, where we can meet our departed loved ones. Ever been to a funeral? ever want to meet them in the next life. That's the inspiration that drives us forward in the search for heaven, not some whip of punishment of sin and hell. |
Hahaha please, I bet that if I go around asking people, Why do they beleive in God? Around %80 would say going to heaven this automaticly implies that they don't whant to go to hell. Therefore, having fear.
Finally, your going to have to get better 'facts' than that. Can religious people answer anything about religion without it involving god... Who can't be proven to exist or not to exist, hes not credible... I have to reply quickly to the post you made AzteK because you posted while I was writing a post. We aren't the most intolerant. We look at everything you give us and stand it up to truth and if it applies we take it for its validity. Most of the crap we're given is worth our time. Also people saying we're intolerant are usually the most intolerant because if you present them with any Christian ideal they always try to find or make up a way to put it down. We examine, you refuse (you meaning atheists and evolutionists and anyone biased against Christians, not you AzTek, I don't know you so I can't judge).
Good post Lennon but I would like to say one thing. YOu can take Genesis literally and not have to metaphorically interpret. The earth is only around 6000 years old when you take the biblical account AND the only unflawed forms of dating like measuring the Great Barrier Reef and how it collects each year and the oldest tree in the world. Also the largest desert, the Sahara. they all measure out to around 4400 hundred years ago when the Bible says the flood happened if you add up all the ages of people that have their ages mentioned in the Bible. And we all thought that part of the Bible was boring and pointless, hmmmmm.
Let's also talk about the devil. Evil is disobedience of God and since the devil disobeyed God he was cursed and his appearance was marred by God. He is not still the most beautiful angel. He is an ugly, horrid looking creature.
To add to Lennon's comment about eye for eye, turning the other cheek, here is what I have to say. IN the Bible there are two covenants. The first one was made with the people of Israel, God's chosen people. They had their rules and regulations, just read the Peneteuch. The second covenant was with the world or Christ's believers known as the Bride of Christ. People didn't have to be jews to be under God's hand. Jesus brought the new covenant which was one of peace and love. The old rules were broken when Jesus fulfilled the covenant. Hebrews 7:22 say Jesus is the guarantee of a better covenant.
Also on the historical record of Jesus, one of the most prominent historians of that time period wrote about him. His name was Josephus. He was an orthodox Jew so you do not have to worry about some new Christian agenda ruining his writings. It is interesting the things he says about Jesus.
I would like to say that the people at your high school sound like a small percent of its population or the people at your high school are a bunch of wishy washy brains who will believe what ever they want. Also, there is a logical end to which my arguement would be correct. I believe that comment just as much applies to atheists and evolutionists and the such. We counter everything you argue us with and when we say something that makes perfect sense and knocks your belief off the shelf you either go uh...uh...uh... or you make up something even more preposterous. Let me give you an example.
Evolutionist have been given the problem of presenting any empirical evidence for their topics and haven't been able to find one transition fossil since charlie darwin presented his theory. Because of this current evolutionist have come up with an idea called saltations. This is where there is no millions of years of evolution, just one day a monkey has a man for a baby or whatever you want.
This is flawed in many different ways. First of all this would present evidence for a young earth which they don't want because animals could just quickly pop out a brand new animal instead of having to wait a million years to grow a new leg, in terms of the three legged horse equus. Also, this says that the lack of evidence proves their theory which is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They just adapted their theory so that having no proof was proof. That is hysterical. Get back to me with more questions
| AzTeK wrote: |
| Quote: | | No, an example of fear is sin and evil and hell. We don't believe in being scared into doing the right thing. We believe in eternal happiness and that we are wanting to go to heaven. We would like perfection and eternal life in heaven, where we can meet our departed loved ones. Ever been to a funeral? ever want to meet them in the next life. That's the inspiration that drives us forward in the search for heaven, not some whip of punishment of sin and hell. |
Hahaha please, I bet that if I go around asking people, Why do they beleive in God? Around %80 would say going to heaven this automaticly implies that they don't whant to go to hell. Therefore, having fear.
|
80% of the US are Christian, 99% of Irish are Christian etc.
Ask them what they believe, and most of them believe in heaven, while a good many don't know or don't believe in hell and sin. So why do they call themselves christian - because they believe in an afterlife, a heaven for their departed loved ones, just ask them.I don't care what the majority of people believe in. When the vast majority of people believe in something quite often that means it is wrong.
I don't understand why people think that when the majority of people believe as they do that it makes it right. It is the most idiotic conclusion anyone could reach.
Yes, the majority can be wrong. But religion is not democracy, it is not a vote of what you believe. Religion is a dogma for all - a promise of a happy afterlife - not just some punishment on earth.
| Lennon wrote: |
| Yes, the majority can be wrong. But religion is not democracy, it is not a vote of what you believe. Religion is a dogma for all - a promise of a happy afterlife - not just some punishment on earth. |
Ok.. so religion is not a democracy? I'm sorry... did you just make a point against the point you made before where you validated your own beliefs because a large amount of people choose to believe them as well?
I wish you people would just admit that the reason you believe what you believe is because you are too weak to accept anything else that could be different because it comforts you when you go to sleep at night.Hey guys, me again. Ok, I have a favorite quote: What is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular. Here's how I end it. UNLESS THE POPULAR HAS PROOF AND THE UNPOPULAR DOESN'T.
Slullpizza: I see exactly what your getting at.
Christians are not deformed, mentally-retarded ignorant fools who are misled like three blind mice. We are just as human as non-christians, you deal with your problems in your own way, religion gives its believers a hope through their problems. But Religion isn't just associated with problems.
And I didn't contradict myself. I wasn't trying to use the majority vote as right, I was trying to say that most of us don't believe in being scared into doing the right thing.
And so we have someone with a grudge against christianity. Logic is just as valid a belief system as faith. It's just a way of thinking. Both go hand in hand, and yet you criticise anything which you don't see fit as pure logic.
We are not sheep being brought to the slaughter or senseless morons walking around with an empty skull. Christianity has just as much logic as scientific theories have faith.
| Lennon wrote: |
| And so we have someone with a grudge against christianity. Logic is just as valid a belief system as faith. It's just a way of thinking. Both go hand in hand, and yet you criticise anything which you don't see fit as pure logic. |
I don't have a grudge against christianity perse, more against all organized religions that are based off of anything other than logical reasoning. Oh and thank you for letting me know that science is just as valid as religion, I really appreciate it. 
| Lennon wrote: |
| Christianity has just as much logic as scientific theories have faith. |
Whoa... how profound. But seriously do you think your illogical rhetoric really means anything? I don't understand why people believe things if there is no reasonable proof. You people don't want to know the truth, you want to know what is going to make you feel better about life. I choose to make myself bend and accept what life is at face value rather than pretending to believe in something that has no proof.Hey guys. Skullpizza, I totally understand how you feel about organized religions. I seem like a hardcore philisophical Christian and I am but I see faillure where humans believe they are the best not the divine. I still go to church where I find the least corruption or where I feel I should be. I also have a comment on the logic of Christianity. I used to have loads of questions about God's logic and if Christianity is logical. Then I was explained it by this idea. Humans are fallible and can't know everything. It is impossible. So what if some of God's reason is so far above us. We may think God is unreasonable but what if He is super-reasonable? That is an interesting thought to chew on. Hopefully not to rubbery. Sorry, bad joke.
I don't know what you mean when you talk about God. I don't know what a God would be. It is an illogical concept. We don't know how everything came to be and God is just some simpletons explanation so they can stop trying to get it and lump all the things they don't understand into something that makes it so they no longer have the responsibility to try and understand anything anymore. They take that question "what is the meaning of life?" and lump it into something that seems familiar like a father figure that is somehow beyond them. "He knows the purpose so I don't have to think about it anymore." They don't know how he exists or what he is in any way but they don't care so long as the responsibility to conteplate the meaningless of their existence is gone. To me this is cowardly. I know I will never understand but yet I keep trying because it is my and everyones elses curse to do so.
You are all cowards.
Last edited by SkullPizza on Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
| SkullPizza wrote: |
I don't know what you mean when you talk about God. I don't know what a God would be. It is an illogical concept. We don't know how everything came to be and God is just some simpletons explanation so they can stop trying to get it and lump all the things they don't understand into something that makes it so they no longer have the responsibility to try and understand anything anymore. They take that drive to survive and explain why they to do so and lump into something that seems familiar like a father figure that is somehow beyond them. "He knows the purpose so I don't have to think about it anymore." They don't know how he exists or what he is in any way but they don't care so long as the responsibility to conteplate the meaningless of their existence is gone. To me this is cowardly. I know I will never understand but yet I keep trying because it is my and everyones elses curse to do so.
You are all cowards. |
It's not "He knows the purpose", it's "This is my purpose."
People who's purpose is to follow Christ and his teachings can lead meaningful lives, instead of wasting away or being destructive
Also, you aren't trying, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you have already given up. You said it yourself. You've already convinced yourself that your "curse" is to try and seek something, even if you know that you can "never understand". So you have told yourself you will fail and you want to continue life to perpetuate your failure, right? You do not seek understanding, since you already know the truth, the truth of failure, right? So you're simply giving yourself an excuse to call other people cowards, essentially. I'm not trying to flame you, rather then give you an unbiased opinion. | junodark wrote: |
It's not "He knows the purpose", it's "This is my purpose."
People who's purpose is to follow Christ and his teachings can lead meaningful lives, instead of wasting away or being destructive
Also, you aren't trying, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you have already given up. You said it yourself. You've already convinced yourself that your "curse" is to try and seek something, even if you know that you can "never understand". So you have told yourself you will fail and you want to continue life to perpetuate your failure, right? You do not seek understanding, since you already know the truth, the truth of failure, right? So you're simply giving yourself an excuse to call other people cowards, essentially. I'm not trying to flame you, rather then give you an unbiased opinion. |
Don't act as if you know what my philosophy is. you have no idea. i have not given up anything and i never said anything about failure. I have found very profound and interesting truths in my own life. I choose not to impose them upon other people because I realise that these are personal truths that I have found for myself. I created my own flawed dogma, but it is mine. I don't try to pretend that it is the truth for anyone else and I encourage people to find their own truth. I do not claim that my truth is THE truth. Because it is not to anyone else but me.
I look down on those who need to follow someone elses truth especially when it obviously conflicts with what we can see in observable reality.
And besides, you have not said anything that logically contradicts what i have said. If you don't have a counterpoint all of what you just said was nothing but a flame.
Last edited by SkullPizza on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in totalSkullpizza, God is not an excuse not to contemplate the meaning of life. If anything it adds a whole new demension to life's contemplation. Why did God create us, what are we in the big picture, are we just God's playthings, who knows. A lot of theologians have their own idea. God is not the easy way out. It is harder than your "flawed dogma." It takes faith. Believing without seeing, which something a lot of people aren't willing to do. And because of that God left us evidence that pointed towards him.
How is God illogical? Answer that.
We actually have an idea of how God exists. He has always been. If you counter that with how can something have always existed in time you have to realize in our philosophy He created time. God is outside time and space. I have to go but I will talk more about this later if you post back.
| SkullPizza wrote: |
| junodark wrote: | It's not "He knows the purpose", it's "This is my purpose."
People who's purpose is to follow Christ and his teachings can lead meaningful lives, instead of wasting away or being destructive
Also, you aren't trying, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you have already given up. You said it yourself. You've already convinced yourself that your "curse" is to try and seek something, even if you know that you can "never understand". So you have told yourself you will fail and you want to continue life to perpetuate your failure, right? You do not seek understanding, since you already know the truth, the truth of failure, right? So you're simply giving yourself an excuse to call other people cowards, essentially. I'm not trying to flame you, rather then give you an unbiased opinion. |
Don't act as if you know what my philosophy is. you have no idea. i have not given up anything and i never said anything about failure. I have found very profound and interesting truths in my own life. I choose not to impose them upon other people because I realise that these are personal truths that I have found for myself. I created my own flawed dogma, but it is mine. I don't try to pretend that it is the truth for anyone else and I encourage people to find their own truth. I do not claim that my truth is THE truth. Because it is not to anyone else but me.
I look down on those who need to follow someone elses truth especially when it obviously conflicts with what we can see in observable reality.
And besides, you have not said anything that logically contradicts what i have said. If you don't have a counterpoint all that what you just was nothing but a flame. |
I'm not sure what wasn't logical. And I may have assumed a bit but I can only ever reflect what you tell me, I didn't make up anything. From what you said in your post, you had called all Christians cowards (Again, this is what you posted) and that you were cursed to live life looking for something you said yourself was unreachable.
Anyway, just for furthering our discussion, I'd like to analyze this so you can understand where I'm coming from. You said:
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| I know I will never understand but yet I keep trying because it is my and everyones elses curse to do so. |
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| I don't try to pretend that it is the truth for anyone else and I encourage people to find their own truth. I do not claim that my truth is THE truth. Because it is not to anyone else but me. |
Ok, so even though you have knowledge of "everyone elses curse", it's still only YOUR truth and nobody elses? This means one of two things:
1. You are aware that everyone else ISN'T cursed but like to tell yourself that anyway?
2. You actually do believe that your truth is everyone elses truth (curse), in which case your second statement is false?
I'm thinking that number 2 is more logical since you have condemned people who choose the Christian way of seeking truth, therefore NOT encouraging them. Christians don't claim to have all the answers, but they do like to have some closure on eternally undefinable aspects of life, such as the afterlife, and a structured moral code. This makes their lives much more enjoyable and their quest for understand much easier, but it certainly doesn't END anything. And if you/anyone can't know the truth, then you can't tell Christians that they are wrong, because you'd have to admit that you are JUST as wrong, which puts you in a spot that is unqualified to judge anyway, especially to call someone "cowards." Does this make sense?
I'm really not flaming you, and I don't understand your philosophy but you do seem to have some seemingly contradicting posts, so you can understand my confusion. I look forward to your response, and not to attack it, but so you can hopefully clear things up for me. | startsomething wrote: |
Skullpizza, God is not an excuse not to contemplate the meaning of life. If anything it adds a whole new demension to life's contemplation. Why did God create us, what are we in the big picture, are we just God's playthings, who knows. A lot of theologians have their own idea. God is not the easy way out. It is harder than your "flawed dogma." It takes faith. Believing without seeing, which something a lot of people aren't willing to do. And because of that God left us evidence that pointed towards him.
How is God illogical? Answer that.
We actually have an idea of how God exists. He has always been. If you counter that with how can something have always existed in time you have to realize in our philosophy He created time. God is outside time and space. I have to go but I will talk more about this later if you post back. |
What? how is it illogical? well because, and i have said this before in countless posts, there is no more evidence for a God than any of the infinite possibilities regarding the origin of the universe. this idea of monotheism primarily comes from the God of Abraham. Since there are ways in which we can look at the world and see clearly that there are huge contradictions as to what we can see and what was written, by men with less of an education and understanding of the universe than me or a 6 year old in all likely hood, it is clear that these ideas have no grounding in logical thinking and should therefore be dismissed by everyone but the most "devoted" or as I like to call the most pathetic.
It didn't used to be this clear. One thousand years ago you wouldn't be required to have as much "faith"- or as i like to call it culturally reinforced ignorance- because they didn't have these contradictions to trifle with as we do.
If you can't see the woods for the trees i pity you.
By the way, it is nothing to be proud of to shut your eyes to what is obvious all around you in order to be able to accept something that is clearly more favorable than uncertainty.Science points towards a designer. Not Christian God but just a designer.
I am a true liberal. I examine anything around me to try and find truth. That is why I love posting on FriHost because of all the challenges I get to my faith. When evidence isn't tampered with it points towards a designer. We weren't an accident.
| startsomething wrote: |
Science points towards a designer. Not Christian God but just a designer.
I am a true liberal. I examine anything around me to try and find truth. That is why I love posting on FriHost because of all the challenges I get to my faith. When evidence isn't tampered with it points towards a designer. We weren't an accident. |
Can you tell me more (either here, for other people or feel free to PM me)?
Sounds interesting. | startsomething wrote: |
Science points towards a designer. Not Christian God but just a designer.
I am a true liberal. I examine anything around me to try and find truth. That is why I love posting on FriHost because of all the challenges I get to my faith. When evidence isn't tampered with it points towards a designer. We weren't an accident. |
Ummm does it really? You're an authority are you? You make interesting claims that aren't represented by the majority of the scientific community.
i'll reference a previous discussion i had so i don't have to rehash disputing all of these fraudulent claims.
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-26689-3.htmlI will say one thing that points towards a designer and let you respond. It has to do with the LAW of the Impossibility of Transversing Infinity. I will preface the story by saying the cosmological evolution demands an infinite amount of past events.
(note: in this illustration, the marbles are numbered and there are only whole numbers)
I have an infinite number of marbles. I give you all my marbles. Therefore, infinity minus infinity equals zero.
I have an infinite number of marbles. I give you all my even numbered marbles. Therefore, infinity minus infinity equals infinity.
I have an infinite number of marbles. I give you all my marbles numbered above the number four. Therefore, infinity minus infinity equals four.
This idea combined with the idea for infinite past events, causes need for a designer who is outside space and time to create our universe, like the Christian God. I must also state that in a lot of Christian philosophy, our God created time and is therefore exempt from it, causing this law not to affect him. Interesting how logical it is.
God is all powerful and can do anything, therefore God can create a rock that he cannot move. OOooooohhh can someone else make stupid nonsensical arguements dealing with mental quicksand too?!
thats wonderful, you've got a unprovable thought experiment where as i back my opinions with out such things and just use empirical evidence to back what i say making me credible.
amazing still to this day I have not met a logical christian (Only seen the rich ones on T.V, driving there ferrari's 
)
The whole theory of God is illogical because if anyone actually thinks about it, what is God exactly?... I can not prove it but it's much better taking an educated guess but mankind has a history of making up answers for questions which can't be answered currently, so when there was no 'god' and people would just die I bet that drove everyone crazy with questions of why, what, how ect. So simply a myth begins, a answer for the unexplainable fate of humans and this is basicly 'God' the creater, the answer to all questions unanswered... Really people commen sense. We have seen examples from history, many diseases that people could not comprehend where automaticaly labeled as 'the devil's work', once again you see God the perfect answer... Well, later on most deseases have been explained and we now know the truth, no one was 'possessed' it was just a desease, in the near future this whole 'God' thing will be as silly as your child beign 'possessed' when it's only a rare disease...
Hah religion a democracy is a crazy idea...
The promise of a paradise in which all will be equal, all living happily under God's rule, yeah I don't know if this is me but this sounds alot like communism to me... Oh wait that's because it is lol.
Communism: A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
Science pointing towards a designer??!
This is amuzing seeign as how all life has been an accident, it's all been events that occured and ended up causing a change, that is all... There is no great plan, no superior beign one of the greatest quotes that I have heard and which cannot be proven wrong is "Everything complex must have a simple beggining." If you beleive otherwise, you are just a fool.
I like to think of faith as ignorance because it is...
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| That is why I love posting on FriHost because of all the challenges I get to my faith. |
Equals...
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| That is why I love posting on FriHost because of all the challenges I get to my ignorance. |
Well it's pretty funny ill end this post by stating this opnion of mine... %99 of all the religios people are going to 'hell' hahaha... (read the bible)
I bet there is no religious person in the world who has not sined, everything that one does in a regular day can be a sin, "Jesus" death only forgave the sin we commit in birth but that is all, please don't give me any of that "The bible isnt supposed to be taken extremely 'literally'" because I will laugh at you. The bible has an incredible time giving multiple stories of what happens when people don't take it literally.
Ex. Women looks back at her home town, God told her famaly not to, she does, God turns her into salt...
I think this fellow God is pretty serious, ill see you all in 'hell' 
First of all Jesus forgives all sin not just original sin. Of course everyone has sinned to because we are all human and we have human nature. The only person who never sinned was Jesus. When He knocked down the market tables in the temple he was enforcing God's law. It is the theme of Antigone, should we follow God's law or man's law. We should follow God's law.
Ok, communism at its purest form is socialism which is where every person is equal and no one has any power. A government where a small group is the totalitarian power is called an oligarchy. With God in heaven and earth Christians believe in a theocracy. Theocracy is pretty much communism or socialism with a God. God is the only ruling factor in that government. Man does not decide anything, God does.
How was my statement about the marbles illogical if it is based on a mathematical LAW when math is what most atheists and anti-christians consider the only certain thing in the universe.
Everything complex must have a simple beginning? What are you talking about? Look at youself. When your dads sperm met with you moms egg that certaintly wasn't simple. The single sperm of which there are millions of that are released during procreation contains all genetic material from the male, the egg contains all the genetic material from the woman. Just because something is small doesn't mean it is simple. You can't create a human being in nine months with some amino acids and a methane atmosphere(stupid Miller experiment). Everything is complex. Nothing is the same. Where is the simple beginning to anything? A pencil has trillions of atoms and electrons, protons, neutrons and many other things that make it horribly complex. Come on.
