See, this whole "God and Religion" thing just baffles me. All over this thread are people who are getting really heated about all of these theories. Not the least of which are the most fundamental questions: Does God exist? Did we evolve? Which religion has it right? What happens after we die? Where did we come from?
And the answer to all of these is the same: We don't know. There is no proof for any of it and the belief in your answers to these questions come from faith. Does God exist? Well, there is no proof with the exception of our own existance. The popular argument is: We are here, someone must have put us here. We'll call that an all powerful being named "God" (or various other names depending on your culture and religion). Now, that's what is being said (although I've no doubt people will argue with me on that one as well.)
We also ask: Did we evolve? Where did we come from? And in perusing all of the posts all over this board I've also seen SO MANY different theories. Some people outraged over the idea that people blindly follow creationism and others outraged over the fact that people can't see that God obviously created us all and the fact that we changed over time is silly. Well, I'll admit there is much more evidence for evolution than there is for creationism, and I tend to go with science on this one myself for a number of reasons. Firstly, there's some proof. We have seen in generations of birds and insects that as their colony is exposed to something, it learns to adapt. Insecticides that killed previous generations of insects do not kill the later ones. Birds have been known to change entire eating habits due to changes in the food change. This doesn't happen suddenly, but over the generations. It's a simple concept: survival of the fittest. So why couldn't that be the case with humans too? Aren't we merely products of that which came before us?
The Bible is also something that has come under much debate. And I believe it is the fundamental quesitons that are most important here as well. The question is not wheter the creation story is what happened, but rather: who wrote the bible? There is documented evidence that a man named Jesus did exist, and there were people who followed him... so that explains where the new testament came from, but what about the creation story? There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed. So, alright, it predates records... so who wrote it? I'm sure some bible expert will respond and tell me, and the answer will probably be someone who had a divine connection to "God". Alright, does that guarantee that's what happended? Not necessarily. Yet many believe it.
The Norse believe that the world came from a massive tree and a godly cow. And from the roots and udders life was created. Do people believe that? Of course not... that would be silly. But a divine being that said "Let there be..." and everything was? Yes, of course. That makes perfect sense. Or even, everything was in a tiny, massively dense atomically sized ball and it exploded and everything is around now because of it. See? All the theories sound a little silly when you think about it.
But in the end it comes down to faith. Whatever you believe in is your business. And I encourage everyone to find what they believe is the truth. Now, from what I've read of the bible and other philosophic and religious documents is this: treat everyone well, be a good person, and be caring for everyone. As far as I'm concerned, that Jesus guy was onto something. He treated everyone fairly... even the prostitutes and tax collectors... and yet some have such disdain for those who don't believe in a divine power. Why? It just doesn't make sense to me. And I'm still sitting here saying "I don't know".
These are question that have always been able to tick someone off depending on thier culture, religion, beliefs, etc.. For some reason we can't just accept the fact that someone may have a differing view than we might have. This is not just in the US, but all over the world. Each race or religion believes that what they believe in is what's right and everyone else is wrong. I have seen people, in this forum, who are normally nice, good mannered people, get really heated over the subject of religion. I personally don't understand all the hostility myself. I know that not everyone is going to think the same as I do, and I wouldn't like this world very much if they did. Diversity would die as a result, and so would individualality. (spelled wrong?)
Variety is the spice of life isn't it?
Hi all
I tend to agree with max here. We should all learn to accept the fact that everyone has their own religious beliefs and that this is ok. Just because you belong to one religion doesnt mean that the other religions is wrong. You may not agree with some beliefs but that is ok cause you dont have to but on the other hand you should still respect others beliefs aswell.
Myself for instance I don't belong to any one religion. I am a very spiritual person and my religion is made up of the fact that I have taken what feels right to me from all different religions and adapted it to myself. This world is evolving and that all religions have a bit of good in them.
The point is to respect what others believe even if you dont believe in that specific religion. And to take what ever feels good to yourself from all different religions and follow what beliefs are right for you.
Gail
Evolution has been proven, the fact that the earth was not craeted in 3 days was proven. religion has no proof to back it up. Science is not a religoin its a bunch of facts people live by.
| shadedflame wrote: |
| Evolution has been proven, the fact that the earth was not craeted in 3 days was proven. religion has no proof to back it up. Science is not a religoin its a bunch of facts people live by. |
Science in a way is religion, you put your faith into it, and that is what you believe. Evolution has NOT been proven. Things evolve yes, but the theory that we came from monkeys CANNOT be proved.
The Earth was created in 7 days, however, the Bible says that God does not count time as men do... so 7 days could've been millions of years to us, so that isn't disproven either.
Religion has an entire book to back it up, it's called The Bible. You should read it sometime, even if you don't want to be Christian, it's still a good book. We also have faith, a faith that is instilled in us from birth... some choose to ignore it, and go astray from God.
But in the end, we're all judged.Most aspects of science have got "one or two" books to back them up aswell, written by more reputable characters too.
| Quote: |
| Evolution has NOT been proven. Things evolve yes, but the theory that we came from monkeys CANNOT be proved. |
2 blatant proofs :
A: Unbiased step-by-step modification of a surface to improve reception of light produced a structure that looks remarkably like an eye which is proof that evolution works.
B: The sterkfontein skulls show mans step by step progression from the apes too, I've held one of the recently discovered ones and it definitely seemed real (2.4 million years old).
If you want more read Charles Darwins writings on finches.
Don't worry. Creationism has been proven too. Recently I read an article about a guy who created a Jenny who sits on irc channels and produces some very funny cybersex session logs.
PS. Yes science can be a religeon but it does not require faith as it has proof and is built of explainable thoeries that change and evolve when disproven, I'll happily admit that everything I know could be absolutely wrong and probably is but I'll know why and I'll know why many other things are wrong too. It's an growing and increasingly accurate portrayal of the world which science depicts
And there are many (scientific) theories such as the one about the world in the past being surrounded by a hydrosphere and Adam being a giant that explain away the Sterkfontein skulls as impossible.(the excess water messed up the carbon dating but Adam would have to have been supersized to survive, "scientists" have found examples of his great big footprints) (quite creative I thought)
The bible says some horrible things. Therés that first commandment that if read in full, not just partially as it is normally quoted condemns any alternatley dietied religeons worshipers potential children and grandchildren to the 3rd and 4th generation to damnation for that one worshipers deviation. Any Christian who follows that line is compelled towards missionary work. So argument is built into the thinġ
It also forbids women teaching (Timothy 1, Verse 2 I think).
But that's just stone throwinġ, I dońt care at all about those things. Though I hate that people follow them
In all honesty from my point of view as an Atheist (this sounds bad in my head already) it's absolutely disgusting that so many people go around living life for the wrong reasons, the bible tells people not to lie, to cheat or to steal, to be nice to ones neighbors and many other things, and I think that it's good that it does. But I'm not happy with that. I think that people should do those things because they want to. Not out of fear, desire for reward or because someone bigger than you tells you to, otherwise to me you dońt count as people but just empty shells following, or attempting to follow instructions.
Believe whatever you want but dońt follow it blindly.
Argue it every step of the way. If supporting a female teacher means an eternity of purgatory and you truly believe that after death for all eternity you will burn do it anyway if you think it's right.
Believe full heartedly that blue pixies will never left you rest a wink for jaywalking but do it if you see no traffic nor causė not too.
It's the wasted lives and doomed children that disgust me (It spreads to your kids, so it's not your personal beliefş raise them without religious bias if you want them to grow up their own people) a smile to a stranger for thoughts of rewards, or not commiting murder because of punishment.
Throw away the guidelines and stop caring how the universe works if all you have is faith then just live it as you see fit.[/quote] | Soulfire wrote: |
| shadedflame wrote: | | Evolution has been proven, the fact that the earth was not craeted in 3 days was proven. religion has no proof to back it up. Science is not a religoin its a bunch of facts people live by. |
Science in a way is religion, you put your faith into it, and that is what you believe. Evolution has NOT been proven. Things evolve yes, but the theory that we came from monkeys CANNOT be proved. |
[/quote]
Science is absolutely NOT a religion. It is founded on the idea that you should question everything, and that no statement is more than opinion unless it can be backed up with hard evidence. I have NO blind faith in science, but I believe science is the best way to think about the things about us and to gain deep understanding (until something better comes along).
No-one who knows anything much about this topic would claim that we evolved from monkeys, any more than monkeys evolved from us. All that is claimed is that there was some creature that was a common ancestor to both
| Soulfire wrote: |
| The Earth was created in 7 days, however, the Bible says that God does not count time as men do... so 7 days could've been millions of years to us, so that isn't disproven either. |
In which case, as we have no way of comparing god's days to ours, it's a meaningless figure.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| Religion has an entire book to back it up, it's called The Bible. You should read it sometime, even if you don't want to be Christian, it's still a good book. We also have faith, a faith that is instilled in us from birth... some choose to ignore it, and go astray from God. |
(1) So are you equating "Religion" with Christianity? Which version of the bible are you referring to? Do the various translations (and mistranslations) matter? What about the fact that some of the words used have also changed meanings?
(2) ...and what about the Koran, Torah, and so on? There are many holy books, most of them older than the bible (so the bible is newer so its better... whoops forgot about the Koran). Are these also not good books? Have you read them too?
(3) Try walking into any local university library and look at the science shelves. You will find vast quantities of arguments and counter arguments, but the overall trend is irresistable - at the heart of science is the need for every statement to be justifiable and backed by evidence that can be replicated by anybody, anywhere, anytime.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| But in the end, we're all judged. |
Do you want to be judged for unthinkingly doing what you were told without question? If you believe that god gave you a brain that could ask questions, do you have the right to refuse to use it? Wouldn't that be a snub to god? I know I'll be judged for my thoughts and actions by any being who comes into contact with me - I try to go to bed each day with the knowledge that I made the world just a little better by what I have done each day. The fact that I try to find the right things to do without needing some religious book or priest to tell me what to do would seem (by my estimation) to count in my favor rather than against me.HI guys, if you have seen any of my other posts you know I am a pretty opinionated guy. First of all, there is way more proof for a higher deity, we don't have to just say the Christians God, to have created the earth than evolution. I believe evolution is dangerous religion being taught in our schools and if it is going to be taught then a peaceful religion like Christianity should have their say in the whole origin of life game. Evolution influenced the propaganda of Russian communism, the Nazi Party when Hitler was in power, Karl Marx, and many more. I love posting stuff like this. Send me your doubts and complaints at MrBeezus@aol.com. I am ready. | startsomething wrote: |
| HI guys, if you have seen any of my other posts you know I am a pretty opinionated guy. First of all, there is way more proof for a higher deity, we don't have to just say the Christians God, to have created the earth than evolution. I believe evolution is dangerous religion being taught in our schools and if it is going to be taught then a peaceful religion like Christianity should have their say in the whole origin of life game. Evolution influenced the propaganda of Russian communism, the Nazi Party when Hitler was in power, Karl Marx, and many more. I love posting stuff like this. Send me your doubts and complaints at MrBeezus@aol.com. I am ready. |
Hey there buddy... Here are some little comments to encourage your thinking...
| Quote: |
| I believe evolution is dangerous religion being taught in our schools |
What in the world are you trying to say? Evolution is not a religion, I am sure you know this, but why is it dangerous? Could you expand on that? Are you saying that this sort of scientific deliberation based observations etc could drive our society to a disaster? If so, how?
| Quote: |
| if it is going to be taught then a peaceful religion like Christianity should have their say in the whole origin of life game. |
Are you trying to say that although the idea of Christian evolution is based on pure faith, they should impose it over the current theory of evolution as a fact? What do you mean as a peaceful religion? Are the other religions not peaceful?
| Quote: |
| Evolution influenced the propaganda of Russian communism, the Nazi Party when Hitler was in power, Karl Marx, and many more. |
I find this quite interesting... are you saying that the theory of evolution is a communism propaganda? Am I missing the connection here? Can you help us out to better visualize this matter, because as far as I know the theory of evolution is a scientific hypothesis based on the recollection of facts. It's not something that was simply made up out of nothing for the sake of “faith” in Communism... In addition, a lot of supporters of the theory of evolution are not even communists. So how does this work here?
Hope I can have a better understanding of your claim, thanks for the time. | startsomething wrote: |
| HI guys, if you have seen any of my other posts you know I am a pretty opinionated guy. |
There's nothing wrong in having strongly held opinions or expressing them, as long as you are happy for others to do the same. I will fight for your right to say anything you want (short of gratuitous, outrageous insults, etc) and hope that comon sense and wider wisdom will prevail.
| startsomething wrote: |
| First of all, there is way more proof for a higher deity, we don't have to just say the Christians God, to have created the earth than evolution. |
I have heard this before, and much has been posted either directly or via links. I have taken the time to read every one of those and I still maintain that there is nothing there that counts as evidence that stands up to even simple challenges. In every case, there is a perfectly good equivalent explanation that uses only known processes that have been experimentally observed many times and which can be repeated by anybody anywhere on demand. These explanations don't require any supernatural powers or forces, so again I see no evidence of any creationist origins.
| startsomething wrote: |
I believe evolution is dangerous religion being taught in our schools and if it is going to be taught then a peaceful religion like Christianity should have their say in the whole origin of life game.
|
Evolution is not a religion. It is a theory based on observation of facts and it depends on a vast collection of carefully gathered evidence from many thousands of sources. It doesn't require any belief or leap of faith. It does not claim that any one individual or species is better or has any more rights than any other. It's based on huge numbers of tiny "experiments" and straightforward statistics, and there is no bias in the underlying maths. It's the simplest, most open (and yes it is democratic) explanation for alll of the things we see about us. How is this dangerous? Why would anybody be opposed to teaching evolution?
In contrast, Christianity and most other religions are based upon faith, often codified into dogma, and usually include some safety clauses about true believers not requiring proof, and testing or challenging the articles of faith or dogma being heretical and punishable by leaders of the faith or the gods themselves. Followers are encouraged to spread the word, i.e. impose their views on others; so where different religious groups meet, clashes arise. Look back through history to see how many wars resulted from religious fervor through the centuries, and how many people have died in them. Then decide whether any religion is more peaceful than evolution. Try Buddism maybe?
Is the rise of evolution dangerous? Look for the people in the world that have most to lose if evolution is more widely accepted - those are the people who percieve the most danger. What do they personally stand to gain or lose?
Look in the scientific community by comparison - the person who gains most is probably Darwin, and he probably doesn't care much about money, fame and celebrity any more. All the other pro-evolutionists are just bit-part players by comparison. Anybody (scientist or otherwise) who managed to definitively disprove evolution would almost certainly gain huge worldwide recognition and probably substantial wealth too. So, strange as it may seem, most scientists in the field are working really hard to undermine the theory too for both personal and academic reasons.
| startsomething wrote: |
| Evolution influenced the propaganda of Russian communism, the Nazi Party when Hitler was in power, Karl Marx, and many more. I love posting stuff like this. Send me your doubts and complaints at MrBeezus@aol.com. I am ready. |
Bad people (some would use the word evil) have always been influenced by many beliefs, theories, religions, etc. so you probably can't pin individual cases on any one theory. Nazi propaganda was vastly more influenced by other issues than evolution, for example. As counter examples, what about the inquisition, witch trials, the crusades and many other cases that were driven by religious zealots. Bertrand Russell puts it better than me:
| Bertrand Russell wrote: |
You find this curious fact, that the more intense has been the religion of any period and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief, the greater has been the cruelty and the worse has been the state of affairs. In the so-called Ages of faith, when men really did believe the Christian religion in all its completeness, there was the Inquisition, with all its tortures; there were millions of unfortunate women burned as witches; and there was every kind of cruelty practiced upon all sorts of people in the name of religion.
|
I'm sure you do love posting this stuff, and we appreciate it when you take the time to make reasoned arguments.make_life_better I appreciate your respect. I believe evolution is a religion because I think anything that takes faith is a religion. Look at this. www.drdino.com Go under downloads and look at the lies in the text book section. I think it addresses my evolution ideas. If not e-mail me at MrBeezus@aol.com so I can have time to write a novel on the explanation. There is a lot of info and I don't have time to reply on this post topic right now. You don't have to even go to the website if you want just e-mail me. | Soulfire wrote: |
Science in a way is religion, you put your faith into it,
|
Whoa, hold up, think my religous primape think. Thats was wrong sooo wrong, science is a way of thinking civilized people, not unlike myself put thier time and effort into it, finding out more and more about the place we live daily, we don't put our faith in it because over time, missing variables get figured out, and a theory is remodled, unlike religoin is a scientific theory is modified and made law, we won't riot in the streets.
| Soulfire wrote: |
Evolution has NOT been proven. Things evolve yes, but the theory that we came from monkeys CANNOT be proved.
|
errr yes it can....let me refer you to a few databases, so you can't bring up the whole wikipedia isn't that true crap. Or that you just went google its just a search engine.
www.school.eb.com
http://infotrac.galegroup.com/itweb/chic49623
http://infotrac.galegroup.com/itweb/cps1440
If you have taken the time to read it good for you but otherwise....
If things evolve then evolution is proven nuff said about that topic. Now as other people have stated bashing you before, the fact that we come from lesser primapes is also true. We have found specimems of roughly every evolutionary stage of human devolpment. And since we know things evolve, what other proof do you need.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| The Earth was created in 7 days, however, the Bible says that God does not count time as men do... so 7 days could've been millions of years to us, so that isn't disproven either. |
Bullcrap, plain and simple, what facts do you have to back this up. Logic disproves this, The book you are refering to does not say that this was in gods time so clearly it must've been human time. If he used a human term days, thats what a day is. This book you speak of says that he is forever, so why would he have a concept of time.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| Religion has an entire book to back it up, it's called The Bible. You should read it sometime, even if you don't want to be Christian, it's still a good book. We also have faith, a faith that is instilled in us from birth... some choose to ignore it, and go astray from God. |
Yes, yes the christian, islam, and Judaism token, your "holy book". A bunch of crap. Mere story tales made up to make you ignorant people beleive something that was forced upon you. The bible has been translated so many times no one knows what it orignally said. Nothing in the bible has any facts, no specifics. Its basicly, use context clues and find the logical place. I HAVE READ THE BIBLE. it is the reason I believe what I believe. I do not have a religion. I have made my choice I have taken my path. There is no god to begin with so you cannot stray away from him. You my friend are another product of euro-brainwashing, and christain converts. take a look at my side for I was on yours for some 15 years. Read other sources and contemplate everything you learned in school. DO not post any more untrue bull crap again like evolution hasn't been proven when indeed it has.
Read and Reflect.
-my final words. | shadedflame wrote: |
DO not post any more untrue bull crap again like evolution hasn't been proven when indeed it has.
Read and Reflect.
-my final words. |
Exactly how are you going to stop him??? Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions...even if they don't coincide with yours. That's one of the benenfits of a free society. Your post does beg one question...if you are so against religion why do you post in a religious forum when it's a simple task to just skip over it?Yes there is proof God exist look around you, look in the mirror, what you feel, your perosnallity God created all the things and i thank him
| Soulfire wrote: |
| shadedflame wrote: | | Evolution has been proven, the fact that the earth was not craeted in 3 days was proven. religion has no proof to back it up. Science is not a religoin its a bunch of facts people live by. |
Science in a way is religion, you put your faith into it, and that is what you believe. Evolution has NOT been proven. Things evolve yes, but the theory that we came from monkeys CANNOT be proved.
The Earth was created in 7 days, however, the Bible says that God does not count time as men do... so 7 days could've been millions of years to us, so that isn't disproven either.
Religion has an entire book to back it up, it's called The Bible. You should read it sometime, even if you don't want to be Christian, it's still a good book. We also have faith, a faith that is instilled in us from birth... some choose to ignore it, and go astray from God.
But in the end, we're all judged. |
amen bro | Soulfire wrote: |
| The Earth was created in 7 days, however, the Bible says that God does not count time as men do... so 7 days could've been millions of years to us, so that isn't disproven either. |
In which case, as we have no way of comparing god's days to ours, it's a meaningless figure.
no your right we dont have no way of comparing to God's day becaue we are not worthy of comparing to Gods anything
