All the theories about the universe can not explain what we want to know.
What do we want to know about the universe??
What can we know about the universe??
What can we not know about the universe??
What can we know about the universe?
All the theories about the universe can not explain what we want to know.
What do we want to know about the universe??
What can we know about the universe??
What can we not know about the universe??
| sebascorre wrote: |
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All the theories about the universe can not explain what we want to know. |
The whole point of the theories is to offer possible explanations for what we cannot yet prove, & need to be corroborated by experiment or observation. With our present level of technology, there are many things we still cannot observe. But, even so, there are certain things that will never be provable - at least, as far as our present knowledge of universal laws are concerned, they will never be provable.
Due to the limitations of the speed of light we will never know what lies beyond the observable universe as there is no way information from beyond that can reach us. If everything outside the observable universe is unknowable, it follows that we can never know what, if anything, lies outside of our universe.
The speed of light is also what stops us knowing for certain what goes on within the event horizon of a black hole. Light cannot escape, so neither can any other information.
Because of quantum uncertainty, we can never know for certain how the universe started. We can only go back as far as the Planck time ( 5.39121 x 10-44 seconds after the universe started).
Plancks constant is relevant with regard the smallest things that can ever be observed - the distance that light travels in 5.39121 x 10-44 seconds.
But the biggest mystery of all, and 1 which has no chance of ever being answered, is the thought processes of women!
You could use the theory of the fundamental interconnectedness of all things to get whatever informaiton you want.
This theory states that everything is in some way related to everything else. Therefore, if I knew just how, I could learn absolutely anything about the universe from say, a vase.
For example: I want to know how far away the edge of the universe is. In some very small way the edge of the universe and the vase are fundamentaly interconnected (they effect echother in quite nearly invisible ways). So, if I knew just how, I could tell the answer from certain aspects of the vase.
This theory states that everything is in some way related to everything else. Therefore, if I knew just how, I could learn absolutely anything about the universe from say, a vase.
For example: I want to know how far away the edge of the universe is. In some very small way the edge of the universe and the vase are fundamentaly interconnected (they effect echother in quite nearly invisible ways). So, if I knew just how, I could tell the answer from certain aspects of the vase.
The universe can be infinitely big or small, depends on your point of view. By now, we see the universe as something so enourmous that we can not imagine how is the ending or the begining of it.
May be we shoudn't know how is the 'border' of the universe or how it was created (Big bang or biblical), but we should know that everything that exists is part of the universe (everything as one) and that the universe is constantly in expansion, like a bomb that exploted and the explosion is growing forever.
Many theories are very interesting, but we need an advanced knowledge to discuss about some of them and I'm just a guy who never read entire books of astrophisycs.
May be we shoudn't know how is the 'border' of the universe or how it was created (Big bang or biblical), but we should know that everything that exists is part of the universe (everything as one) and that the universe is constantly in expansion, like a bomb that exploted and the explosion is growing forever.
Many theories are very interesting, but we need an advanced knowledge to discuss about some of them and I'm just a guy who never read entire books of astrophisycs.
You asked for it!
In the theory of general relitivity questions about the infinity of space and time can be asked and partly answered on an empirical basis.
If the connection between the four-dimensional geometry in space and time, and the distribution of masses in the universe has been correctly given by the theory, then the astronomical observations on the distribution of galaxies in space give us information about the geometry of the universe as a whole.
It may be that the space filled by the universe is infinite. This would not mean that there is an end of the universe at some place, it would only mean that proceeding any further in one direction you would finaly come to the point where you started from!
I have thought and still think of these things at great length, so if I tend to be boring I appologise.
In the theory of general relitivity questions about the infinity of space and time can be asked and partly answered on an empirical basis.
If the connection between the four-dimensional geometry in space and time, and the distribution of masses in the universe has been correctly given by the theory, then the astronomical observations on the distribution of galaxies in space give us information about the geometry of the universe as a whole.
It may be that the space filled by the universe is infinite. This would not mean that there is an end of the universe at some place, it would only mean that proceeding any further in one direction you would finaly come to the point where you started from!
I have thought and still think of these things at great length, so if I tend to be boring I appologise.
| otiscom wrote: |
| You asked for it!
In the theory of general relitivity questions about the infinity of space and time can be asked and partly answered on an empirical basis. If the connection between the four-dimensional geometry in space and time, and the distribution of masses in the universe has been correctly given by the theory, then the astronomical observations on the distribution of galaxies in space give us information about the geometry of the universe as a whole. It may be that the space filled by the universe is infinite. This would not mean that there is an end of the universe at some place, it would only mean that proceeding any further in one direction you would finaly come to the point where you started from! I have thought and still think of these things at great length, so if I tend to be boring I appologise. |
Empiricism only applies to the observable universe. It is the observable universe on which we base our understanding. That which we can see may be totally different to that which we can not see; and were we able to see it, it may well have changed some of the basic theories that hold true for the observable universe. We know that relativity breaks down at the sub-atomic level. How could we ever know if it holds true or breaks down at the universal level if we can only ever observe a small part of the universe?
For those reasons, we will never know with certainty what the universe actually is, how big it is, what's at the edge, or, indeed, whether the laws of physics as we understand them are truly universal.
You say:-
"It may be that the space filled by the universe is infinite. This would not mean that there is an end of the universe at some place, it would only mean that proceeding any further in one direction you would finaly come to the point where you started from!"
There's a conflict in that sentence. If space is infinite, there is, by definition, no end. Basically what you have said boils down to "the universe may be infinite, but that doesn't mean there's an end to it".
DoctorBeaver wrote:
No, all I'm trying to say is that infinity can also be explained as a loop.
In other words returning to the start regardless of how many times it happens.
Apply this to the universe expanding and it need not be! Perhaps it is in an endless loop with stars being born and collapsing in a continuous loop.
That fits with Einstein's "matter cannot be created or destroyed" theory.
I think!
| Quote: |
| There's a conflict in that sentence. If space is infinite, there is, by definition, no end. Basically what you have said boils down to "the universe may be infinite, but that doesn't mean there's an end to it".
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No, all I'm trying to say is that infinity can also be explained as a loop.
In other words returning to the start regardless of how many times it happens.
Apply this to the universe expanding and it need not be! Perhaps it is in an endless loop with stars being born and collapsing in a continuous loop.
That fits with Einstein's "matter cannot be created or destroyed" theory.
I think!
Ah, sorry. I misunderstood what you meant.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| You could use the theory of the fundamental interconnectedness of all things to get whatever informaiton you want.
This theory states that everything is in some way related to everything else. Therefore, if I knew just how, I could learn absolutely anything about the universe from say, a vase. For example: I want to know how far away the edge of the universe is. In some very small way the edge of the universe and the vase are fundamentaly interconnected (they effect echother in quite nearly invisible ways). So, if I knew just how, I could tell the answer from certain aspects of the vase. |
whoa thats really interesting. that kinda reminded me of that one part in "The hitchhikers guide to the universe" where the two nuclear missiles turned into a whale and a bowl of petunias and daddada if you could understand why the bowl of petunias thought dadda then we could understand the universe better.. ahhh
well if you seen the movie you get it, if you havent then forget it..
but yea thats a kool theory, i can dig it.
ps: dadadad = some part i cant remember.
| ggreiner9 wrote: | ||
whoa thats really interesting. that kinda reminded me of that one part in "The hitchhikers guide to the universe" where the two nuclear missiles turned into a whale and a bowl of petunias and daddada if you could understand why the bowl of petunias thought dadda then we could understand the universe better.. ahhh well if you seen the movie you get it, if you havent then forget it.. but yea thats a kool theory, i can dig it. ps: dadadad = some part i cant remember. |
Of course, you could always ask the mice
| ggreiner9 wrote: | ||
whoa thats really interesting. that kinda reminded me of that one part in "The hitchhikers guide to the universe" where the two nuclear missiles turned into a whale and a bowl of petunias and daddada if you could understand why the bowl of petunias thought dadda then we could understand the universe better.. ahhh |
That's because that thory came from Douglass Adams as well.
| sebascorre wrote: |
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All the theories about the universe can not explain what we want to know. What do we want to know about the universe?? What can we know about the universe?? What can we not know about the universe?? |
In fact there are really areas where we never get with our mind. For expample in mathematics there is a theorem of Godel that say even if you have a complet set of axioms there will always be some statements which remains unproofable. So because we use mainly mathematics to find out something about the world around us, it is almoust sure, that there will always be some areas where we never get.
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