Some more quotes I found, these pertaining to war.
Please feel free to explain the true meaning if I have taken them the wrong way or interpreted them incorrectly.
| Quote: |
Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”
Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you meet them in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned.”
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think that they can bypass (the law or punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot get away.” [Another translation reads:] “The unbelieving infidels should not think that they can bypass Islam; surely they cannot escape.”
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.”
Qur’an 8:60 “And make ready against the infidels all of the power you can, including steeds of war [the Noble Qur’an says these are: tanks, planes, missiles, and artillery] to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy. And whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause shall be repaid unto you.” [Another translation reads:] Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”
Qur’an 4:71 “Believers, take precautions and advance in detachments or go (on expeditions) together in one troop.’”
Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.
Qur’an 67:20 “Who is he that will send an army to assist you besides Ar-Rahman?”
Qur’an 48:15 “Those who lagged behind (will say), when you marched forth to capture booty in war: ‘Permit us to follow you.’”
Qur’an 47:20 “Those who believe say, ‘How is it that no surah was sent down (for us)?’ But when a categorical [definite or uncompromising] surah is revealed, and fighting and war (Jihad, holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) are ordained, you will see those with diseased hearts looking at you (Muhammad) fainting unto death. Therefore woe to them!”
Qur’an 9:25 “Assuredly, Allah did give you victory on many battlefields.... Allah did send down His forces (angels) which you saw not. He punished the Infidels. Such is their reward.”
Qur’an 9:41 “March forth (equipped) with light or heavy arms. Strive with your goods and your lives in the Cause of Allah. That is best for you.”
Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with unbelieving Infidels in battle, strike and overpower them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, make them prisoners in bondage until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded. He lets you fight in order to test you. Those who are slain in Allah’s Cause will never have their deeds go to waste.”
Qur’an 61:14 “O Muslims! Be helpers of Allah…We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they prevailed.”
Qur’an 100:1 “I call to witness the (cavalry steeds), the (snorting courses), that run breathing pantingly (rushing off to battle), striking sparks of fire, scouring to the raid at dawn, raising clouds of dust as they penetrate deep into the midst of a foe en masse.”
Qur’an 21:44 “Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.”
Qur’an 13:41 “Do they not see Us advancing from all sides into the land (of the disbelievers), reducing its borders (by giving it to believers in war victories)?”
Qur’an 33:22 “When the faithful saw the retreating allied armies this enhanced their faith and obedience...Allah drove the infidels back in their fury so that their resistance was futile.”
Qur’an 24:55 “Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good work that He will make them rulers of the earth. He will establish in authority their religion—the one which He has chosen for them.”
Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption, making mischief in the land [those who refuse to surrender to Islam] is murder, execution, crucifixion, the cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. That is their degradation and disgrace in this world. And a great torment of an awful doom awaits them in the hereafter. Except for those who repent (and become Muslims) before you overpower them and they fall into your control.” |
you really should respect the one topic rule. We should have this moved to the end of the last "the Qur'an and Terrorism" topic. Finding it hard to keep in touch with the amount of religion topics.
Again, I respect the will to to the right thing.Speaking of god's influence on war, the jews in the old testament believed that God was winning their war for them according to their faith. Christian interpretation of it has been heavily influenced by the quotation of this verse in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, when Jesus of Nazareth urges his followers to turn the other cheek when confronted by violence:
| Gospel of Matthew wrote: |
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38-39, NRSV)
|
So we christians have a quote from scripture to defend Qur'an beliefs. Those who live by the sword die by the sword, but in Christian teaching, we must love our neighbour to love God, no matter what they believe or do. so much for President Bush being a christian.
| Gospel of Matthew wrote: |
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17) |
| Gospel of Matthew wrote: |
"You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, ‘You shall not murder;' and ‘Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.' But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say,
'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. "If therefore you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
(Matthew 5:21-24) |
| Gospel of Matthew wrote: |
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, That you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and
sends rain on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love
you, what reward do you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? If you only greet your friends, what more do you do than others? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.(Matthew 5:43-48) |
Christianity teaches us to respect life and not to take examples of pharisees who resemble the Qur'an with hard burdens and no respect for life.
Last edited by Lennon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:01 pm; edited 5 times in total I will be starting topics with quotes that pertain to the subjects stated. War. Terrorism. Islam. Peace. Women. Choice. Deception. Tolerance. Murder. etc etc etc.
Each topic will be limited to quotes pertaining to that ideal. Lumping them together would only cause them to go un-noticed. (Is that your intention?)
Is this topic just meant to be spread hatred or does it have a real purpose?
Quoting religious texts out of context, like you did, is easy. I could quote the thousand or so violent quotes from the Bible out of context, like those given here:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/short.html
but I won't bow so low.
I'm not a muslim but even I can see that when I look up Chapter 5, for example, in context it is quite different from what you make out. For example, in context 5.33 is preceded by a verse which tells muslims to save human lives:
| Quote: |
| 5.32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. |
And is given in the context of war,
| Quote: |
| The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger... |
when muslims have been attacked. And then it is then followed by:
| Quote: |
| 5:34 Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. |
This is nothing in comparison with the comparable situation in Numbers 31:15-19, or in modern day when 60 million deaths were justified in WW2 because we were attacked.
I am not a muslim and do not have the authority or the time to go through the context of every one of your quotes (and I know enough to know that the Koran is a subtle book with many references).
If you were interested in understanding the quotes which you posted, I suggest you talk to a muslim in private. If you didn't want to that, maybe you could ask on a muslim website is Islam was violent (which seems to concern you a lot) and see what reply you get.
Another quick google gave me:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1121601592958&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/Page/AskAboutIslamCounselingE | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Some more quotes I found, these pertaining to war.
Please feel free to explain the true meaning if I have taken them the wrong way or interpreted them incorrectly.
| Quote: | Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”
|
|
So you have interpreted them? Really?
Okay, don't have much time tonight so I'll just post this one here:
Quran 8:39 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease verily Allah doth see all they do."
Seems pretty different from your interpretation to me. Slipping up in your Arabic lessons? | nopaniers wrote: |
| Is this topic just meant to be spread hatred or does it have a real purpose? |
I think the q'ran spreads enough hatred, don't you? Anyway, no, this topic is to inform and bring into the open what I see.
| Quote: |
| Quoting religious texts out of context, like you did, is easy. I could quote the thousand or so violent quotes from the Bible out of context, |
The difference is that the practices I've layed out are common today. What you're talking about is old and busted and doesn't happen any more. Please stop trying to reference the Bible, as this topic is the Q'ran. If you feel the need to quote the Bible, please do it in another thread.
Mkthks.
| Quote: |
I'm not a muslim but even I can see that when I look up Chapter 5, for example, in context it is quite different from what you make out. For example, in context 5.33 is preceded by a verse which tells muslims to save human lives:
| Quote: | | 5.32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. |
|
"For other than manslaughter" ??
So manslaughter is ok??
| Quote: |
And is given in the context of war,
| Quote: | | The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger... |
when muslims have been attacked. And then it is then followed by:
| Quote: | | 5:34 Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. |
|
You left out the part where it says
| Quote: |
5:34
Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
5:35
O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.
5:36
As to those who reject Faith,- if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them, theirs would be a grievous penalty. |
| Quote: |
| This is nothing in comparison with the comparable situation in Numbers 31:15-19, or in modern day when 60 million deaths were justified in WW2 because we were attacked. |
HuH? | ainieas wrote: |
Quran 8:39 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease verily Allah doth see all they do."
|
Doesn't seem that much different to me. Basically, "fight them until justice
and faith in Alah altogether and everywhere" makes my point very nicely
(and similarly to my interpretation, only with different wording). Thank you!
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Doesn't seem that much different to me. Basically, "fight them until justice
and faith in Alah altogether and everywhere" makes my point very nicely
(and similarly to my interpretation, only with different wording). Thank you!
|
Dude, you can twist the words each and every way you want, in the end you'll see what you already wanted to see. Let go of your vendetta. Its not serving anyone.
In 9/11 many lost their near and dear ones. Thing is, not to let the grief turn to hatred.Qur'an and war.
Right, that automatically associates Muslims and war, which I don't think is just.
i'd like to compare the Qur'an to the old testament, where the God/Allah leads wars/ slays the guilty etc. I have to say the Christianity teaches a lesson to Muslim community. Just like the old testament was follewed by the new testament, the old testament was that law that God gave to moses, the two tablets. the new testament is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the redemption. what Christians believe is that the old testament was imperfect and God had to inspire the world into using force. With the new testament, we are redeemed. The perfect sacrifice has given us a second chance. God no longer punishes us, we have been given a second chance, another chance to get to heaven. The Qur'an mentions that it accepts the Gospels, which is a lie. It will not accept redemption. They will kill and sacrifice and purify and hold a jihad against non-believers, but I'd say that if their fight is the cause of their faith, their faith is misled into thinking Allah holds the truth. We have to believe the new testament.
but to keep the point of Qur'an and War, just like the old testament, religious beliefs are considered absolute and not questioned. The only two religions I know where you can question the faith are buddhism and Christianity. i see this as ignorance, blind faith instead of reasoned faith, unloving towards people who are different, and nieve. but the war persists because of all of the above.
| ainieas wrote: |
Dude, you can twist the words each and every way you want, in the end you'll see what you already wanted to see. Let go of your vendetta. Its not serving anyone.
|
My study of the Q'ran has just started in recent weeks. My views did not exist until I started studying it. If I am wrong in my meanings, perhaps you'll be so kind as to explain what
| Quote: |
Quran 8:39 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease verily Allah doth see all they do."
|
means... in english so an ignorant like me can understand.
For reference, here are 3 translations of 8:39
| Quote: |
008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. |
| Quote: |
| I think the q'ran spreads enough hatred, don't you? |
No. It does not spread hatred. It certainly seems like you are trying to spread hatred about muslims though. It's funny that you are doing what you falsely accuse others of.
| Quote: |
| The difference is that the practices I've layed out are common today. |
Which practises are they? All you did was quote a collection of verses out of context. It's like as if I quoted you verses which described God commanding Abraham to kill his son, and implied that Christians were to kill their sons. It's not only misleading, it's insulting to most people's intelligence.
| Quote: |
| "For other than manslaughter" ?? |
No. I don't have a problem with that. This verse clearly spells out that killing another without cause is wrong, and that saving a life is good (which is particularly good when you consider that the victim's family are able to pardon the killer) and especially considering the context (that of a war) this is a particularly powerful verse.
As for the next verses, I prefer my translation, because it is easier to understand:
| Quote: |
5:35 O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to Allah, and seek the way of approach unto Him, and strive in His way in order that ye may succeed.
5:36 As for those who disbelieve, lo! if all that is in the earth were theirs, and as much again therewith, to ransom them from the doom on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful doom.
Disbelievers will have a painful doom.
5:37 They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. |
I don't understand why believing in God's final judgement has anything to do with the topic... As a Christian, I believe much the same. | Lennon wrote: |
Qur'an and war.
Right, that automatically associates Muslims and war, which I don't think is just.
|
First let me say again: ot all muslims are radicals. With that in mind, Islam has destroyed nearly every civilization it touched and brought misery, poverty, ignorance and war in every country that it invaded. All in the name of Alah. 90%-95% of all the conflicts on this planet today involve muslims fighting non-muslims or each other. I wonder why?
| Quote: |
i'd like to compare the Qur'an to the old testament, where the God/Allah leads wars/ slays the guilty etc. |
Again, if you want to quote the Bible, or compare it to the Q'ran, please do so in another thread. | Quote: |
| My study of the Q'ran has just started in recent weeks. |
Then it is a little worrying that several weeks ago you claimed you were writing an article about Islam. From January 17:
| Quote: |
| Here is a snippit of an article I'm writing. |
However, it does explain why you didn't even know who the "People of the Book" were... It's also worrying that you have already such a strong opinion when you obviously have not had enough time to even read the relevant material let alone "study" it. | nopaniers wrote: |
| enough time to even read the relevant material let alone "study" it. |
And by that do you mean "once you assent to its teachings you've spent ENOUGH time studying"?
| nopaniers wrote: |
| Is this topic just meant to be spread hatred or does it have a real purpose? |
Spreading hatred is a real purpose. It's not a good purpose, but it is a purpose. It's also not a purpose I favor. But I digress. S3nd K3ys isn't spreading hate.
| nopaniers wrote: |
| but I won't bow so low. |
I could mention your propensity to collect child pornography, too.
| nopaniers wrote: |
| it shall be as if he had killed all mankind |
yes, the Q'ran makes SOME distinctions, but is quite clear on how to dispatch those who oppose the spread of islam. 'Value all life, unless it opposes islam'. S3nd K3ys is quoting the latter, subordinate phrase. The prior context does not detract for the essential, consistent distubring commands. | nopaniers wrote: |
| Quote: | | My study of the Q'ran has just started in recent weeks. |
Then it is a little worrying that several weeks ago you claimed you were writing an article about Islam.
|
It worries you that I realized I would need to study the Q'ran in order to write accurately about Islam? I guess you'd feel better if I went into it blindly and only used my opinion as it stood then? 
| Quote: |
However, it does explain why you didn't even know who the "People of the Book" were... |
Fair enough, but I have seen many MANY more quotes isolating faith only to Alah and Islam than I have to "People of the Book". And my general impression is still strongly sided on that principal; that the book generally adheres to the belief that those that do not believe in Alah are to be converted or killed.
My beliefs in other areas (politics, family, envronment, etc) have changed drastically in the past, given circumstance and evidence, so if I am wrong about the Q'ran, I'm sure it will become evident before I finish my studies. | gonzo wrote: |
| And by that do you mean "once you assent to its teachings you've spent ENOUGH time studying"? |
No. I am a Christian. I do not agree with Islam, but that does not mean that I create ficticious strawmen to villify. I at least read, spoken and travelled enough to know that the picture being painted by these out of context quotes is not the one held by the overwhelming majority of muslims.
| Quote: |
| I could mention your propensity to collect child pornography, too. |
I do not have a pornography collection of any type.
| Quote: |
| 'Value all life, unless it opposes islam'. S3nd K3ys is quoting the latter... |
I'm sorry, I didn't see him say that. Can you tell me which verse that is from so I can have a look, please?Before I pitch in here, I'd like to make the point I'm an atheist. I belong to no faith, believe in no God myself, but I fully respect the rights and choices of others to do so.
I am a bit concerned that S3nd K3ys seems to be spending so much time making negative comments about Islam with no real point other than "Islam is wrong and the Q'ran is evil" - this is pretty unproductive and likely just to offend people. I appreciate that you and everyone else has the right to make comment, make a point and enter discussion, but I think you're taking it a bit far. Although I understant the point you're trying to make, I'd like to make one point:
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| First let me say again: not all muslims are radicals. With that in mind, Islam has destroyed nearly every civilization it touched and brought misery, poverty, ignorance and war in every country that it invaded. All in the name of Alah. 90%-95% of all the conflicts on this planet today involve muslims fighting non-muslims or each other. I wonder why? |
Weren't the Lynchings of Blacks caused by fanatical Christianity.
Burning of "witches" in olden times - Christianity?
Murder of Doctors working in Abortion clinics - wasn't that based on Christian beliefs?
What about the KKK - didn't they proclaim themselves "true Christians"?
My point is that there are many religions with brutal, bloody histories. You are unfairly singling one out for repeated "bashing". Why don't you run a comparison thread? Find historical quotations about religious violence and ceremonies involving murder? I think you may find that Islam is not really any worse than other religions, but there happens to be some Islamic religious violence happening in the world at the moment. My version of 8:39 says:
| Quote: |
8:38 Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
8:39 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do. Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
8:40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a Transcendent Patron, a Transcendent Helper!"
|
These verses explain that it is okay for muslims to resist when they are persecuted. It also says that they should forgive when the persecution stops. wow, i cant beleive idiots like Send key, u have to go learn the quran from a scholar, cause u dotn knwo what ur talking about. And u said every war has satrted cause of Muslims, nooo. USA attacks iraq they will fight back, there was no need to attack them and invade, totally useless, all the USA wanted was oil $$ thats it, well if they want that they have to pay a price with their lives, which they deserve. Iran is making nukes and the USA cant do anythign about it lol, sell their waste to russia, somethign big is comming lol, i jsut want to be here to see it.
| nopaniers wrote: |
My version of 8:39 says:
| Quote: | 8:38 Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
8:39 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do. Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
8:40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a Transcendent Patron, a Transcendent Helper!"
|
These verses explain that it is okay for muslims to resist when they are persecuted. It also says that they should forgive when the persecution stops. |
It also explains that the muslims are to fight until "all religion is for Alah". | ldnet wrote: |
| wow, i cant beleive idiots like Send key, u have to go learn the quran from a scholar, cause u dotn knwo what ur talking about. And u said every war has satrted cause of Muslims, nooo. USA attacks iraq they will fight back, there was no need to attack them and invade, totally useless, all the USA wanted was oil $$ thats it, well if they want that they have to pay a price with their lives, which they deserve. Iran is making nukes and the USA cant do anythign about it lol, sell their waste to russia, somethign big is comming lol, i jsut want to be here to see it. |
OH NOOOS! I'm being called an idiot by someone that can't read, spell or structure a sentence!
Enragement ensues. 
I never said every war has been started by Muslims. Go back and re-read it.
Iran is making nukes and the USA CAN AND WILL do something about it. 
At first glance at the Qur'an, there is so much quotes on violence and there's so much negativity.
As you become more familiar with the Qur'an, you'll find out a different story. If you're a good practising muslim the emphasis is on iman, the faith. There's so much respectable faith out there - pilgrimages to mecca, obeying the law it preaches, the belief that Allah will answer your prayers and help you in response to your faith.
the majority of the muslim community will go deeper into faith instead of focusing on the commands of violence.
just like christianity has a deeper side to eating the body of christ and eating his blood (spiritual redemption), the muslim community has a deeper faith than literal violence. Hence we need muslim interpretation.
| Lennon wrote: |
the muslim community has a deeper faith than literal violence. Hence we need muslim interpretation. |
Methinks many of the muslims rioting all over the world right now need a better interpretation of the Q'ran as well.Muslim terrorists are a minority in the muslim community. It wouldn't be fair to use stereotypes and connective guilt on the entire muslim religion.
There are only a handful of Muslims on the frihost board. If you really want to discuss Islam, post here - http://talkaboutislam.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=d2e2d42fcd5d725fe0d47b95dbf662a7&board=4.0
Thats where you should have posted in the first place. | Animal wrote: |
| Weren't the Lynchings of Blacks caused by fanatical Christianity. |
No. Nor were they caused by shoe wearing fanatics. Have you stopped beating old ladies in the park yet?
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
OH NOOOS! I'm being called an idiot by someone that can't read, spell or structure a sentence! |
| ainieas wrote: |
| There are only a handful of Muslims on the frihost board |
So what?
| ainieas wrote: |
| If you really want to discuss Islam, post [some other place] |
No, here is fine. If you don't want to read the topics stop clicking to open them. | gonzo wrote: |
| ainieas wrote: | | There are only a handful of Muslims on the frihost board |
So what?
| ainieas wrote: | | If you really want to discuss Islam, post [some other place] |
No, here is fine. If you don't want to read the topics stop clicking to open them. |
If he'd really like to know then Frihost is not the place. I'll speak for myself. I'm not a Muslim, my parents are but I'm a Mumin. So the discuss the finer details people like me are not qualified. If anyone would really like to know what the Quran and its interpretations is all about take that to where the scholars can define them. Frihost is not fine.Yes. There we go... I'm going to base all my beliefs about Islam and the Q'ran from posts on this board. This might be relevant to give an muslim's opinion on the issues:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545862
The page starts (but I'd encourage you to not take my word for it and read it yourself):
| Quote: |
In the first place, we would like to stress that the study of world history would show that Islam and terrorism are extreme opposites. There is no meeting point between Islam and terrorism as practiced by terrorist groups in different parts of the world. Terrorism involves the indiscriminate use of force to achieve certain objectives. Whereas, the basis of national and international relations in Islam is peace and not war as falsely claimed by some people.
In Islam, the use of force is allowed only in special situations, particularly when the Muslim community is threatened by hostile forces. This is natural and logical for any other community indeed. Then again, the use of force in a campaign of Jihad is determined by the leader of the Muslim community in a very orderly way...
|
and also contains links to several other pages. thanx to nopaniers we now have a muslim interpretation (see above).
so as I thought, you cannot take the religious texts literally.
