Some interesting quotes I found.
Please feel free to explain the true meaning if I have taken them the wrong way or interpreted them incorrectly.
| Quote: |
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
Qur’an 7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”
Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”
Qur’an 59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire.”
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
Qur’an 3:150 “Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!” |
Yes, your point is very strong, i can feel the anger.
Do not open up to the dark side. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to violence, violence leads to death.
Yoda speaks.
Seeking forgiveness from yoda.
Last edited by Lennon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
| Lennon wrote: |
Yes, your point is very strong, i can feel the anger.
Do not open up to the dark side. Jealousy leads to anger. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to violence, violence leads to death.
Yoda speaks. |
Hey, don't misquote Yoda!
Fear leads to anger...You know, I am starting to loose almost all respect for Islam. The religion is... questionable, to say the least. There are interesting quotes from the Bible as well, but nothing to that extreme.
I do not think that any of us has enough authority to question or interpret the Coran, most of the religious writings were written several hundred years ago, when violence and intolerance was a common way to deal with things how ever the ultimate message is what really matters.
| maclui wrote: |
| I do not think that any of us has enough authority to question or interpret the Coran, most of the religious writings were written several hundred years ago, when violence and intolerance was a common way to deal with things how ever the ultimate message is what really matters. |
Now there's a point. The age of the text means that many of the remarks made within are not acceptable in a modern context. This same thinking has been applied to the Bible and has resulted in modern Christianity, so perhaps it is up to Muslims to take a more up-to-date interpretation of the Koran which does not require such violence. | maclui wrote: |
| I do not think that any of us has enough authority to question or interpret the Coran, most of the religious writings were written several hundred years ago, when violence and intolerance was a common way to deal with things how ever the ultimate message is what really matters. |
Well, let's see, the terrorists of today seem to be using violence and intolerance quite commonly. And what "ultimate message" do you get out of those passages besides death?S3ND K3YS I seriously am getting a big concern on where you are getting these translatiosn man, the word infedil does not even appear in that verse nor does it anywhere else!!! Also I checked first verse it is out of context totally and does not talk about infedils at all but rather about disbeleievers or athiests!
[quote=S3ND"]
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
[/quote]
| The Qur'an wrote: |
Remember when your Lord revealed to teh angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."
|
I can also see why you guys are maybe disgusted by it or even scraed or it. But there is a reason for this verse, I believe but I am not sure that this verse was revealed and is talking about the first battle of Islam! The battle of Badr! Where it is said that the Muslims wanted to trade with an oncoming caravan and when they tried the Disbelievers or the inhabitants of Makkah at that time sent a huge army saying they were trying to kill the caravan. So what to do the Muslims went back to Medina and they got ready to defend, but they were still weaker than the army of disbelievers, 300:1000 almost something like that. SO Allah (SWT) sent down his Angels to help teh Muslism win, and that is why he said kill them, I mean what else are you gonna do in war?
This also prooves that the other verses are false I am sorry though I do not have time to correct them I am very busy. Although you can get a free copy of the Qur'an at a Local Muslm bookstore or Masjid (Muslim Church). So please feel free to get one and look into them. | sciondestiny wrote: |
| S3ND K3YS I seriously am getting a big concern on where you are getting these translatiosn man, the word infedil does not even appear in that verse nor does it anywhere else!!! Also I checked first verse it is out of context totally and does not talk about infedils at all but rather about disbeleievers or athiests! |
What do you think the Infidels are? Non believers! Geez dude. If you don't believe in Alah, you're an infidel and should be converted or killed. It's very simple.
The passages I posted are a small fraction of what I will be posting in the coming days/weeks. From my studies to date of the Q'ran, 90% to 95% of it deals with death, intolerance, repression of rights etc to any and all that do not bow to Alah/Muhammad/Islam.My only question for S3nd K3ys is, do you have the intent of following out those instructions, because anyone who does is questionable by western law.
| Lennon wrote: |
| My only question for S3nd K3ys is, do you have the intent of following out those instructions, because anyone who does is questionable by western law. |
Oh, I'm sorry.
Did I give you the impression that I'm Muslim?
I'm not Muslim. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Some interesting quotes I found.
| Quote: | Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
|
|
Where the hell are you quoting from, are you a freaking Arabic scholar?
Here is the actual translation:
Quran 8:57 "If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember"
You want me to simplyfy that? I'll work on the other quotes sometime soon. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
What do you think the Infidels are? Non believers! Geez dude. If you don't believe in Alah, you're an infidel and should be converted or killed. It's very simple.
|
And why is that not ALL Muslims engaged in butchering of infidels. I mean there are enough Muslims to do considerable damage if killing others was the sole motive of Islam. | ainieas wrote: |
Here is the actual translation:
Quran 8:57 "If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember"
|
| Quote: |
008.057
YUSUFALI: If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.
PICKTHAL: If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.
SHAKIR: Therefore if you overtake them in fighting, then scatter by (making an example of) them those who are in their rear, that they may be mindful. |
I guess it all depends on who you talk to eh? 
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| ainieas wrote: |
Here is the actual translation:
Quran 8:57 "If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember"
|
| Quote: | 008.057
YUSUFALI: If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.
PICKTHAL: If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.
SHAKIR: Therefore if you overtake them in fighting, then scatter by (making an example of) them those who are in their rear, that they may be mindful. |
I guess it all depends on who you talk to eh? |
And I can see whom you picked. Like I said in the other post, you'll only see that which you want to see. Your point of view, to me, is as disturbed as the view of Quran you are trying to portray. | ainieas wrote: |
And I can see whom you picked. Like I said in the other post, you'll only see that which you want to see. Your point of view, to me, is as disturbed as the view of Quran you are trying to portray. |
I'm not picky. I will consider all translations. For example, in the other thread, 8:39.
This is another reason for posting this, I want to know as much about it as I can. Because from what I've seen so far, it's not looking like the Q'ran preaches peace and tolerance unless you bow to Alah. | maclui wrote: |
| I do not think that any of us has enough authority to question or interpret the Coran |
that's mighty convenient.
Am I simililarly disallowed to comment on the actions of those who are permitted? Who grants this ellusive authority?
And then who really is capable of discerning whether or not the granted authority was really even granted? Can we even really know anything? wee
S3nd K3ys, if you guys really want the meaning of those lines, maybe ask GDG on this forum he knows alot about all that.
| ldnet wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys, if you guys really want the meaning of those lines, maybe ask GDG on this forum he knows alot about all that. |
The meaning is becoming quite clear via the actions of many (radical) muslims. Thanks anyway. | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| via the actions of many (radical) muslims. Thanks anyway. |
oh, no, see those actions are in the past. And according to the cannon of liberalism the past is unimportant, unless you want to confront a non-liberalist. You have to let everyone do their own thing irrespective of justice otherwise you're a bigot, racist, or some other slanderous title. It's not acceptable to question religion, unless its Christianity.
duh
| gonzo wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | | via the actions of many (radical) muslims. Thanks anyway. |
oh, no, see those actions are in the past. And according to the cannon of liberalism the past is unimportant, unless you want to confront a non-liberalist. You have to let everyone do their own thing irrespective of justice otherwise you're a bigot, racist, or some other slanderous title. It's not acceptable to question religion, unless its Christianity.
|
The muslim attack's are happening now as we speak, and always will be. Since I like Buddhists, buddhists are also searching for answers by questioning their inner paths.Mean no disrespect but just showing that when quoted out of context it all becomes something vile.
| Quote: |
Old Testament Passages
"Samar'ia shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open."
Hosea 13:16
"Behold the day of the Lord is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished..."
Christian god-Zechariah 14:1
"Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"
Psalms 137:9
"...I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun."
Christian god-2 Samuel 12:11
"Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished."
Christian god-Isaiah 13:9, 13:15
"Behold, I am against you, says the Lord of hosts, and will lift up your skirts over your face; and I will let nations look on your nakedness and kingdoms on your shame. I will throw filth at you...."
Christian god-Nahum 3:5
"Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you."
Jeremiah 50:21
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your bretheren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."
Christian god-Leviticus 25:44
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Moses-Numbers 31:17
"But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then you shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..."
Christian god-Deuteronomy 22:20
New Testament passages
"...but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come."
Jesus-Matthew 12:32
"...he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
Jesus-John 3:18
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of god rests upon him."
Jesus-John 3:36
"'But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.'"
Jesus speaking in a parable
Luke 19:27
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
Jesus-Matthew 10:34
"And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
Jesus-Luke 22:36
"Likewise, you wives, be submissive to your husbands..."
1 Peter 3:1
"And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating."
Jesus-Luke 12:47
|
exactly my point.
If I'd have just glanced at your article I would have called that biased, but after reading I note your contradiction of mis-quoting. I know how to listen. Good example of paying attention.
Exactly my point, we need a muslim interpretation, and I might just check out that muslim point later.
Last edited by Lennon on Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
I really didn't mean any disrespect. I mean after posting that I was saying all kinds of prayers.
| Carupieara wrote: |
| I really didn't mean any disrespect. I mean after posting that I was saying all kinds of prayers. |
I see nothing wrong (except the wrong thread) with your post. The quotes are valid, but not practiced today. That's largely my point. Many (major) religions used to think that way, but now it seems only one still does. Time to wake up and join modern civilization IMNSHO.I'd like to make a distinction between Judeo-Christian religions (which includes Islam) and Eastern religions. While Hinduism has had some problems as of late, in general, Eastern religions are peaceful and Western Judeo-Christian religions are violent. Judeo-Christians have a strong 'us vs. them' mentality: you are either Christian or heathen, Jew or gentile, Muslim or infidel. No Eastern religion has such a distinction. While Genghis Khan tried to conquer the world, it was not based on a religious pretext and no proselytizing took place. Other than that, I can’t think of another Eastern attempt. Taoism, Buddhism, Zen, Lamaism, and to a certain extent Hinduism, are truly religions of peace, unlike any Western religion, although I think that there are some pretty heavy aspects to Judaism.
I think that Islam is the most violence prone religion next to Christianity, but when it comes to racism I think that Christianity is worse. There is a scene in one of the Gospels where a gentile, a Sumerian I think, comes to Jesus for a healing and he retorts, "I came only for the Jews" and calls her a dog. She puts him to shame by saying, "Even dogs eat crumbs from the master's table." At this he relents and heals her. So I think that Jesus himself was racists, which is what beggests the violence in Christianity, whereas the violence of Islam is, I believe, a result of the direct but covert intent of the auther (which isn't Mohammed).
As to the Qu’ran, did you know that it was not written by Mohammed? It was dictated (the word Qu’ran means recitation or dictation) to Mohammed by an entity that he only saw twice in his life. This entity is supposedly the Archangel Gabriel, but I don’t believe it. The Qu’ran reads like a Hellfire and brimstone Baptist minister on speed, virtually EVERY paragraph is a different topic, like a shady used car salesman constantly changing the topic to avoid being pinned down on his deception. There are endless angry references to all of the people that are going to Hell, and even though there is some tolerance given to Christianity and Judaism, there are plenty of angry accusatory comments about Christians and Jews as well. And Hindus don’t even count in the Qu’ran, they are completely assed out.
On the other side of the coin, I’ve heard and read some quotes from Mohammed that are some of the heaviest things I’ve ever heard from any spiritual leader. I haven’t found a good source of Hadiths that quote his sayings about heavy topics like the End Times, for example, so I don’t know how reflective this is of his views as a whole, but the profound quotes he’s made that I have read sound NOTHING like the Qu’ran. They are coherent, focused and mind blowing, without the fanaticism and incoherent flailing about with perpetually changing topic that marks the Qu’ran as almost 100% garbage.
I once tried to engage an Imam on this topic, but not surprisingly, like most brain-washing victims he could not even address an incisively critical point that is indefensible. No matter how many times I praised Mohammed and criticized the Qu’ran and it’s author, the supposed Archangel Gabriel, he would always turn the argument back to the credibility of Mohammed. I think that he was a heavy dude, who was unfortunately illiterate and so had no power of discrimination when it came to discerning good from evil after being approached by a high level demon. Actually, his gut reaction told him demon; after his first encounter with this supposed archangel, he fled the scene in terror and was left tremboling for hours until he reached his wife and she calmed him down. He would have remained convinced that it was a demon (jin or as anglicized: genie), but his wife was so enamored of being the wife of the “Law Giver” that she enlisted Mohammed’s elderly Christian cousin to convince Mohammed that what the entity had told him was true. I think that if Mohammed had been literate and knew something about religious history this would have been a very hard sell.
I almost forgot about Sufis. We're always hearing about Shiites, Sunnis and Wahabis, but the only sect anyone was familiar with before the invasion of Iraq was Sufiism.
I challenge anyone to name ONE Sufi terrorist! Its possible that the Chechen terrorists who attacked Russia were Sufis, but I think unlikely. They probably weren't even Chechen nationals, most of the terrorists in Chechnia are foreigners from other sects. Even though Russia has committed utterly terroristic acts of unspeakable mass violence on Chechnia, the Chechen president in exile doesn't hesitate to denounce the terrorists. The Sufi sect is mystically oriented and extremely peaceful. It is a terrible shame that this distinction has gone almost completely unnoticed in the post 9/11 world where the US has done virtually nothing to condemn Russia for its campaign of terror against Chechnia.
