| Quote: |
On the 30th of September 2005 the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed. Mohammedans raised a storm of protest and two artists went into hiding after receiving death threats. Islamic organisations demanded an apology from the Danish government and the incident turned into a world-wide diplomatic issue. The OIC (the Organisation of the Islamic Conference), the Council of Europe and the UN all criticised the government of Denmark for not taking measures against the newspaper Jyllands-Posten. The Danish prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen defended the freedom of the press and free speech and stated that any measures, if appropriate, could not be taken by the government but only by a court of law. Meanwhile in Islamic countries Danish flags are burned and Danish products are taken off the shelves. Several countries have withdrawn their ambassadors from Denmark and armed men attacked the office of the EU in the Gaza strip.
Denmark needs our support. Show that you care and put one of these banners on your website. |
http://skender.be/supportdenmark/
Help defend Danish's right to free speach!i would support them on this subject , i livein a muslim country myself,
but it is really sad to see all this happening around us , trust me , not even 80% of protesters here have acutally seen the cartoon 
but they still protest ,cuz they r told to | Devil wrote: |
i would support them on this subject , i livein a muslim country myself,
but it is really sad to see all this happening around us , trust me , not even 80% of protesters here have acutally seen the cartoon
but they still protest ,cuz they r told to |
That sounds about right. We have the same problem here with people finding any excuse to riot.Devil what exact Muslim country do you live in, oh and S3ND K3YS why are Muslims not allowed to speak up and have or get any rights that they wish to? Or is this fear from the non-Muslims because the President of Denmark sure enough showed fear by not speaking with 11 prime minister of the Muslim nations!!!
| GDG wrote: |
| Devil what exact Muslim country do you live in, oh and S3ND K3YS why are Muslims not allowed to speak up and have or get any rights that they wish to? Or is this fear from the non-Muslims because the President of Denmark sure enough showed fear by not speaking with 11 prime minister of the Muslim nations!!! |
i live in the UAE .
i am getting various SMS to show my protest against the danish, they say dont buy danish food , if u see any danish food in the supermarket , get it removed , i mean like everyone has got this message , plus they even managed to get big shopping malls to Remove danish products from thier shops ,
Thank god they dint take the streets , cuz the laws are very strict here ,
but i wonder what it is like in the other muslim nations ,Muslims banning Danish bacon...... 
In indonesia i 've read on the HK standard this morning, they had riots already.
100% sure those involved in the riots hadn't a clue of the content of cartoon. Just rioting because it is fun to do it in the name of religion and against the infidelis........
I fully suppor the Danish Governement in their bald move not apologising on behalf of the cartoonists and stressing their strong commitment to the freedom of speech and expression.
Muslim ( apart an elected few) cannot understand obviously the importance of freedom of speech and expression and what it really means as most of the muslim countries have a tight control on what their people think above that a tight religious control as well....
All above said, I do not endorse the work of the cartoonists. I think it is stupid to make fun of other people's religious beliefs. They must be criticised for their bad taste in picking on religion.
Not that they have to be punished with death but I guess now they are shitting their pants hiding in the dark......
I disagree with S3nd K3ys that "most terrorists are Muslims", at least until he can furnish some hard numbers from an unbiased and reputable source.
I'm also saddened by his continuing inability to distinguish the average guy-on-the-street Muslim from the minority who actually are terrorists, as evidenced by his continued requests that law abiding Muslims explain to him the actions and motivations of terrorists.
But on this issue, I do agree with him and with the European newspapers who finally showed some balls and didn't back down. Imagine that, for once Europe is actually being LESS politically correct than the United States!
These protests and boycotts are clearly a popular reaction by a substantial portion of the Muslim mainstream, not some fringe extremist group. If burning Danish flags is how mainstream Muslims respond to a newspaper cartoon that's no worse than the satire Christians stoically put up with every single day... it makes me think that even though Islam may be a religion of peace, it's definitely not a religion of being able to take a joke. Or a religion of living in a secular, pluralistic, and free civilization.
Prove me wrong, Muslims. Tell me if you think these yahoos boycotting Lego blocks and storming embassies are wrong.
This isn't the first time, either. Remember Salman Rushdie? There too, we didn't back down or give him up to the Quran-thumpers, and they eventually sat the hell down and shut the hell up. The Eurpoean publishers just need to stick to their principles, and they will be vindicated.
This is just growing pains for any religion. The Christians got over themselves (mostly) somewhere around the time of Charles Darwin. The Muslims will have to learn the same lesson as the rest of us.
Frankly the outrage over such a small thing is ridiculous. Think about it, what presents a worse image of Muslims: some cartoons, or videos being released of terrorists beheading foreign aid workers? Perhaps if this anger were properly focused something good might actually come of it.
| SunburnedCactus wrote: |
| Frankly the outrage over such a small thing is ridiculous. Think about it, what presents a worse image of Muslims: some cartoons, or videos being released of terrorists beheading foreign aid workers? Perhaps if this anger were properly focused something good might actually come of it. |
what u said is soo true , even i feel that protesting about something that u dont know or dint see , or just doing it for the heck of it that ur muslim ,
is totally bullshit , if they had made thier protest in a decent manner , or go to court and sue the newspaper , i would have supported them ,
cuz even i beleave that one should not make fun of some one elses religion or beliefs , islam is going through a very difficult time , they are trying to force thier veiws and way of living on the world , i read a article where zarawhi asking bush to convert to muslim , and all his sins will be forgiven , 
anyway sticking to the topic , does anyone here have seen the cartoon ?
or can they post it here , or share it with me by pm , i really want to know what it was ,Here you go.
Was this worth vandalizing an embassy (belonging to a government that does not control the press in anyway)?
PS: What does the script on his turban say? | S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Help defend Danish's right to free speach! |
Would you say the same thing if it was the Cross that was descrated?If I dont like whats published in a newspaper I dont buy it.
I would not burn down an embassy. And why wait 6 months ?
This incident has greatly increased my respect for our right to free speech and our need to defend it. I am proud to support Denmark as well as all other states that guarantee this right to their populace. The true greatness of a state in protecting this right is not in times of peace and tranquility but in times of turmoil when the content is deemed questionable by others. Only them does it become apparent that everyone has the right to his views and may express them freely. This is what makes the free world great.
Freedom of Speech does not imply a right to mock religion. Although I do not agree with the Islamic response to the situation, I am not surprised they are so angry.
now that i have seen the cartoon , i know why muslim brothers are angry ,
but still the way they choose to protest is stilll not right , they could sue the paper and go to court ,
blaming the whole denmark and whole Europe for one actions , is just foolish ,
It is the same like when they say we all muslims are not terrorists,
now there are so many muslims terrorists, if all of europe and America Stopped any muslims coming in thier country , HOW WOULD THEY FEEL ?
that is another thing that Europe will be more safer then | ainieas wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Help defend Danish's right to free speach! |
Would you say the same thing if it was the Cross that was descrated? |
A conceptual artist (whatever that means) named Robert Maplethorpe had a photo exhibit that was sponsored by the National Endowment for the Arts which featured a photo of a crucifix submerged in a glass of urine, with the photo entitled "piss Christ". Now it's true that the NEA got a lot of flack for that and still hasn't recovered... but nothing was boycotted or destroyed, and Maplethorpe's life was never in danger.
Speaking only for myself, I don't care what Maplethorpe and people like him exhibit. My only complaint is that public money was used to sponsor that crap. But they have freedom of expression no matter how tasteless and offensive I might find it to be. Self-criticism and self-questioning are the lifeblood of a democratic society. Where absolute certainty exists, freedom no longer does.
Just try to imagine what would happen if Maplethorpe was a Saudi and displayed a similarly offensive photograph in an exhibit in Saudi Arabia. | ainieas wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
Help defend Danish's right to free speach! |
Would you say the same thing if it was the Cross that was descrated? |
Of course I would. I would also say the same thing about burning the American Flag. (Or anyone's flag). It really pisses me off, but I won't do anything to stop their freedom of expression, so long as it doesn't spread to burning people, like women and children.
Oh wait, it already has. 
Extremism as performance art: discuss.
Free speach is a good thing, but so is respect and understanding as my local newspaper pointed out(live in norway).
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. Poke fun at people elsewhere, religion is too touchy and too close to peoples' hearts, if you're going to mock people... use something else.
I do not know the exact context of the cartoons so I do not really know if I have to support Denmark but what it is clear is that those muslims do not have a bit of respect and tolerance.
What are the cartoons all about?? some of them seem pointless to me and some other are obvious. Personally some of them are offensive but then I think wait a minute the best cartoons of the muslims are muslims themselves. Look at them acting as is they are being physically attacked. This is a clear example of how reality is more grotesque than the most acid cartoon.
if you have not seen them check out this link:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004413.htm The swedish online-magazine sd-kuriren http://www.sdkuriren.se/
did publish a muhammad cartoon on their site
The securty police gave some 'advice' to their webhotel ( not to the magazine)
and they shut down the site.
Now they have removed the picture and the site is up again,
This without the autorites exercice any censorship of cause !!!
I did find the picture on this site
http://www.document.no/weblogg/archives/bilder/060202muhammed400.jpg @s3end k3ys
my dear friend, here is the real thing. you say "help them protect their right of free speech", but you are forgetting one thing. The freedom of speech is not in question here.
Our societies say: we want the freedom to think, the freedom to speak, and free media...
But these freedoms are not all the same and equal. Out of all of them, only that of thought is completely free of any material bounds, i think eveybody agrees on that.
The right to speak freely has several different aspects. One of them is "speaking using words", another one"speaking using images", another one is "speaking using guns",...and so on, there are many ways to speak...
This seems to be something everyone is forgetting about. The Christian culture does not make a distinction between these, and this does not make us more liberate or free, but only more primitive!
Out of all these freedoms, the only universally accepted can, and must be the freedom of speech, because only it, is a clear reflection of spirit or thought, as you wish...
But the rest of those ways of communication, mentioned above, are neccessarily materialized, and therefore limited, and cannot be used as means of universally accepted communication.
As I see, you are well aware of what's written in Qur'an. Then you should know too, that Islamic religion forbids portraying of any Messengers of God's, including Jesus Christ, Messiah, and of course Mohhamad...
This reflects the highest level of spiritual awareness! It means steering clear of materializing the people of highest historical , cultural and religious importance!
So, therefore, we are actually impaling a double-barbarism on the Islamic society. One, because every violence is barbaric, and two, by portraying Mohammad, we are impaling spiritually worthless cultural customs on another civilization!
I am really (not) sorry, but I will never support the Danish in this matter, because as I said, this is not about the "freedom of speech"!
This is about the "freedom to mock", the "freedom to insult"...
That we call free speech, and I'm sure that's what you stand up for, so fiercly!
[color=green]s3nd k3ys wrote:
Of course I would. I would also say the same thing about burning the American Flag. (Or anyone's flag). It really pisses me off, but I won't do anything to stop their freedom of expression, so long as it doesn't spread to burning people, like women and children.
[/color]
...maybe it doesn't "spread to..." but it sure "calls to..."
i sayd it before and il say it again i tink the prophet Mohammed picture is tasteles but i also tink Jyllands-Posten have the right to show it
and OFC any offended muslims (or others) have the right to protest and boycott Danish products to showe ther dislike.
But to accuse other countrys, burn flags, threaten ppl, and physicaly hurt ppl are even more tasteless !
These rioting muslims need to stfu. They get pissed about seeing (and even not seeing in some muslims' case) cartoons featuring their "oh so holy" prophet mohammed. Christians (not one myself thank god) have to deal with Kanye West portraying himself as Jesus. If this isn't the biggest mockery of any religion ever I don't know what is. Ask any practicing Christian if they are happy with this low-life scumbag "rapper" dressing up as their saviour. he went as far as stating that if the Bible were written today he'd be a main character.
No mass Christian riots.
Mohammed stepping into the limelight in a couple danish cartoons.
Death to the infidels (every non-muslim).
Not saying every muslim is like this, but right now what I'm seeing is mainstream Islam proving to be a primitive and barbaric culture. I'm hoping that these rioting muslims will stfu and learn how to be civilized, this isnt 1000AD anymore, grow up already. Does anyone know what happend to the editors that published the danish cartoons in the Frensh Soir and the magazine in Jordan ( I dont know the name of it ) ?
I've heard that they lost their jobs.
I heard on the news that the danish editor is on vacation.
If the newspaper dont exercice the right to free speech who will ?
TV and radio is busy now with the Olympic games and there noting wrong with that
but I hope they resume the free speach issue when the sport events are finished
that is in about 2 weeks.
i think its totally unconscionable what the editors of those newspapers did allowing those cartoons to be printed. they knew what a uproar it would cause but they still went ahead. I am sorry but there has to be some type of punishment, so that people realise that some topics are sensitive and therefore you need to employ more sense when addressing them. You can't just go around inciting violence and then hiding behind freedom of speech. That's abusing that freedom.
As for the Danish government the RIGHT thing for them to do would be to apologise for the insensitivities of the cartoons originally printed in their newspapers. But they should also defend those same stupid newspaper's right to free speech!
Oh, death to you and your newspapers! 
| srdjan wrote: |
| The freedom of speech is not in question here. |
Let me spell it out for you: A paper posts some cartoons. Some Muslims get butt-hurt over it and start burning shit, causing death, and threatening to kill the people responsible.
THAT, my friend, is the supression of FREE SPEACH. Those wacked out Muslims have no reason to burn shit, kill, threaten to kill, insite violence etc. NONE. They're hypocrytical, hyposensitive little babys that need a diaper change.the main thing is that muslim leaders have played a role in provoking people to do this , for example where i stay , the first day when this news was out , the state gov banned all danish products , and all over the friday prayers u could hear them screming anti danish anti usa slogans ,
now the average muslim may not have reacted in this way , if the gov across the middle east , including syria and Iran , had not provoked the people ,
| lyndonray wrote: |
i think its totally unconscionable what the editors of those newspapers did allowing those cartoons to be printed. they knew what a uproar it would cause but they still went ahead. I am sorry but there has to be some type of punishment, so that people realise that some topics are sensitive and therefore you need to employ more sense when addressing them. You can't just go around inciting violence and then hiding behind freedom of speech. That's abusing that freedom.
As for the Danish government the RIGHT thing for them to do would be to apologise for the insensitivities of the cartoons originally printed in their newspapers. But they should also defend those same stupid newspaper's right to free speech! |
why shuld thay be punish'd just coz its sensitive thay shuld be abel to printed any ting thay whant.
and the Danish government have apologised 2 or 3 times and defended free speech | Devil wrote: |
| now the average muslim may not have reacted in this way , if the gov across the middle east , including syria and Iran , had not provoked the people , |
Sad. I'm glad Americans don't all latch on to the same opinion just because their government feeds it to them... oh, wait a minute. Yes we do. Nevermind.
| TonkPilz wrote: |
why shuld thay be punish'd just coz its sensitive thay shuld be abel to printed any ting thay whant.
and the Danish government have apologised 2 or 3 times and defended free speech |
Look, a clear messsage needs to be sent. A message that says you can't go around publishing material that is likely, not just to offend, but to downright enrage people simply because you can. These newspapers have a social responsibility and they should be held accountable when they when they don't don't properly live up to that responsibility.
Their actions were irresponsible and they need to be held accountable. Its a complicated world where everyone is on the edge. People hate each other and want to kill each other. The last anybody needs is a newspaper unecesarily adding more fuel to the fire. Why would they do that? What was the ultimate goal of this whole thing? What were they trying to achieve by publishing those cartoons?? | lyndonray wrote: |
Look, a clear messsage needs to be sent. A message that says you can't go around publishing material that is likely, not just to offend, but to downright enrage people simply because you can. These newspapers have a social responsibility and they should be held accountable when they when they don't don't properly live up to that responsibility.
Their actions were irresponsible and they need to be held accountable. Its a complicated world where everyone is on the edge. People hate each other and want to kill each other. The last anybody needs is a newspaper unecesarily adding more fuel to the fire. Why would they do that? What was the ultimate goal of this whole thing? What were they trying to achieve by publishing those cartoons?? |
Lyndonray, I don't think the newspapers or the cartoons itself are the problem. The original Danish newspaper didn't want to provoke, but just wanted to publish a 'funny' cartoon. They didn't expect any big impact and nothing special happened until some radical muslims tried to take advantage of it several months afterwards. Most muslims protesting never saw the cartoons themselves.
I only saw two cartoons including the one with the "no more virgins". I really don't understand what's so enraging about them. In Europe similar things are regularly made for political, royal and religious persons and entities. They are going much further and are not meant to be taken serious, but as a satire/joke/cartoon.I refuse to support either the tabloid press or the Muslim Terrorists because i think they've both lost their dignity and respect for other's beliefs and value for life. Peaceful Muslim's and broadsheet newspapers please.
They just needed a reason to protest and be violent, obviously. The cartoons were not that offensive. I don't care if you're Muslim, you need to grow up if they offend you. Violence will not solve the problem. Threats of death will not solve the problem. If these (radical) Muslims want respect, they need to earn it.
| Bondings wrote: |
Lyndonray, I don't think the newspapers or the cartoons itself are the problem. The original Danish newspaper didn't want to provoke, but just wanted to publish a 'funny' cartoon. They didn't expect any big impact and nothing special happened until some radical muslims tried to take advantage of it several months afterwards. Most muslims protesting never saw the cartoons themselves. |
The newspapers are part of the problem. Just because it took a couple of months for the fallout it doesn't mean it was ok to publish them at first. Even if there hadn't been any fallout it still wouldn't have been right for them to publish the cartoons
The other part of the problem is crazy people telling others not to protest peacefully, but to destroy property and threaten to kill others.
| Bondings wrote: |
I only saw two cartoons including the one with the "no more virgins". I really don't understand what's so enraging about them. In Europe similar things are regularly made for political, royal and religious persons and entities. They are going much further and are not meant to be taken serious, but as a satire/joke/cartoon. |
yeah, that's in Europe where political cartoons are part of the culture. We are talking about Islam here, where it is not allowed to draw any image and say it's Mohammed. It is a very sacred thing. So what the hell gives some guy the right not only draw this image but also make it disrepectful. That's what I have a problem with.
I am saying people need to excercise some common sense. If people were more thoughtful and sensitive to other people's beliefs there'd be less stress going around. | lyndonray wrote: |
| yeah, that's in Europe where political cartoons are part of the culture. We are talking about Islam here, where it is not allowed to draw any image and say it's Mohammed. It is a very sacred thing. So what the hell gives some guy the right not only draw this image but also make it disrepectful. That's what I have a problem with. |
The cartoons were published in a Danish newspaper, in a European country. They (the ones I saw) were a satire on terrorists. They were not meant to incite hate, discrimination, racism, violence, illegal things, ... Hence they shouldn't be censored. Censorship should only be used in extreme situations and certainly not for these kind of things.
In other circumstances those cartoons would have a beneficial effect. And how can you make a cartoon about Mohammed, if you aren't allowed to draw his image?
One of the most important values in Europe is that everything and everyone should be treated equally. It took a long while to be able to criticize our own religions and make cartoons about it. If it's ok to make cartoons about christianity than it also should be ok to make them about islam. There is no way to make different values and rules for all religions.
Some religions believe that humans reincarnate in animals, like cows. By eating a cow, this doesn't make me disrespectful towards them.We can't live our lives trying not to offend people. The bottom line is, no matter what you do, you're probably going to offend someone. If we spent our lives worrying about that, then the world would be far less productive. Would we even have cars, electricity, etc? Remember, some cultures are unaccepting of technology.
Let's worry less about offending others, and more about injuring others. So maybe some people were offended by the cartoons. Does that give them the right to kill others (which has happened)? Which is the greater sin?
The swedish securty police did put some pressure on a webhost to shut down the
magazine sdkuriren. Their mohammadpicture was not offencive in any way but
rather amusing when the text was censorship which is that debate currently.
This blog has a good descripion and the picture to
http://portmcclellan.typepad.com/michaelbrandonmcclellan/2006/02/sweden_folds.html | Bondings wrote: |
The cartoons were published in a Danish newspaper, in a European country. They (the ones I saw) were a satire on terrorists. They were not meant to incite hate, discrimination, racism, violence, illegal things, ... Hence they shouldn't be censored. Censorship should only be used in extreme situations and certainly not for these kind of things. |
It would have been alright if they were just making fun of terrorists and had left Mohammed out of it. But including Mohammed in the satire is what I have a problem with.
And also what constitutes an "extreme situation" where censorship is warranted? Would a cartoon of the Pope receiving oral sex from little blonde boy be an example? I think it would. What they did with Mohammed is a similar thing.
| Bondings wrote: |
In other circumstances those cartoons would have a beneficial effect. And how can you make a cartoon about Mohammed, if you aren't allowed to draw his image? |
That's what I am saying. What gives these people the right to draw a cartoon of an important (if not the most) figure in a religion, when drawing his image or anything that comes close to being a facial representation is strickly forbidden. That's just disrespectful. And you are asking for trouble by doing that.
| Bondings wrote: |
One of the most important values in Europe is that everything and everyone should be treated equally. It took a long while to be able to criticize our own religions and make cartoons about it. If it's ok to make cartoons about christianity than it also should be ok to make them about islam. There is no way to make different values and rules for all religions.
|
Again that's different because people have been giving us pictures of Jesus with his shiny brown beard for centuries. With Islam its different. You can't have a t-shirt with Mohammed on it. See what I mean?
here is an analogy, the only people who can go around calling eachother niggas are black people, (obviously that's just some of them since most despise that word). But let a white guy try it... well we all know what will likely happen. black people are not ready to allow white people to call them niggas. Maybe they will one day, maybe they won't. Until then, if you are not black don't try it. So similarly if Muslims themselves don't play around with Mohammed, how what gives a non-Muslim the right to.
| smalls wrote: |
We can't live our lives trying not to offend people.
|
You're damn-right! There is no way we can make everyone happy. however we shouldn't do things that we know full and well in advance will offend people because then you are just asking for it.Cartoon row: Indian killed in UAE
| Quote: |
DUBAI: An Indian sailor was allegedly beaten to death by his colleagues on board a Norwegian oil tanker in the international waters off the coast of Fujairah in the UAE following an argument over the cartoon.
A fight ensued among the seamen after an argument over the cartoon issue, causing the death of one sailor, a media report said.
Official sources confirmed the death of 31-year-old Sudheer Nonia Jagannathan, hailing from Mumbai, but refused to comment on the issue. |
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1415870.cms
How many more innocent people will die ?
And yet we See people Defending these muslims radical ,
IT is a Real Shame While I don't think violence is ever justified, and I do think that Islam is violence prone, I also think that the criticism isn't very balanced. What if Muslims or Chinese printed inflammitory cartoons about Jesus or the Pope? While there wouldn't be any riots, you can bet that millions would get seriously bent out of shape.
| lyndonray wrote: |
| And also what constitutes an "extreme situation" where censorship is warranted? Would a cartoon of the Pope receiving oral sex from little blonde boy be an example? I think it would. What they did with Mohammed is a similar thing. |
With extreme situations, I meant racist things or similar ones, like nazist pictures inciting to kill jews. Or in this case a cartoon inciting to hate/kill/steal from muslims.
The pope cartoon should be up to the newspaper as it depends on what audiences it is used for. Oral sex cartoons shouldn't be displayed to very young people, in my opinion. But next to an article about the abuse of children by priests, this might be a nice cartoon, yes. Actually, I bet a similar cartoon was already published somewhere. 
| Bondings wrote: |
| lyndonray wrote: | | And also what constitutes an "extreme situation" where censorship is warranted? Would a cartoon of the Pope receiving oral sex from little blonde boy be an example? I think it would. What they did with Mohammed is a similar thing. |
With extreme situations, I meant racist things or similar ones, like nazist pictures inciting to kill jews. Or in this case a cartoon inciting to hate/kill/steal from muslims.
The pope cartoon should be up to the newspaper as it depends on what audiences it is used for. Oral sex cartoons shouldn't be displayed to very young people, in my opinion. But next to an article about the abuse of children by priests, this might be a nice cartoon, yes. Actually, I bet a similar cartoon was already published somewhere. |
they wont understand the power of media , which plays important role in our society . they bring the bad in front of people , in this case i think the cartoons were meant for terrorists , but u cant blame muslims who protested , cuz half of them never went to school so they wont understand | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| While I don't think violence is ever justified, and I do think that Islam is violence prone, I also think that the criticism isn't very balanced. What if Muslims or Chinese printed inflammitory cartoons about Jesus or the Pope? While there wouldn't be any riots, you can bet that millions would get seriously bent out of shape. |
There are already a lot of cartoons about Jesus and the Pope, mostly made by Europeans/American people themselves.
| Bondings wrote: |
|
These cartoons are kind of funny. A strong criticism and that has happened since long ago and non of us is rioting or burning down frihost for publishing them. Goob cartoons
OK guys the reason Muslims are protesting is because you hae touched something very dear to us. Firstly I want to say that I do not support the riots that people are doing in the Muslim countries these days. I mean I am very disgusted and mad at them but I would not go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire.
I also do not go against peaceful protests where you just walk and show how many people do not support this. Rather it would be wiser to either talk with the people on the issue or educate people on who Prophet Muhammad (SAW) really was.
He was an illiterate person, since being literate in those days was very hard to accomplish seeing as many people were not literate themselves thus not that many teachers. He started to preach about Islam when he was about 40 years old and was instructed to teach it to only his family and closest of friends. After a while he was instructed by God (SWT) to preach it to everyone in the city, but as usual and as we see today The Muslims started getting persecuted. But when the unbelievers or idol worshippers tried to hurt Prophet Muhammad, his followers or the Muslims protected him because of one thing. they respected him a lot and because he was the only living person who could bring them the Qur'an. He lived his life as a slave of God, worshipping and preaching and praying to Allah (SWT) to forgive everyone on the planet, and to make the unbelievers believe once again.
Muslims hate it when he is made fun of because what he did was not only for himself, or the Muslims only but it was for all of humanity. People when told to respect someone great such as Bill Gates, or President Bush obey. But when told to respect someone who is a spiritual leader, such as bhudda, or Jesus or even Prophet Muhammad you guys shun them away. For once respect not only others but also your God!
Last edited by sciondestiny on Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
| sciondestiny wrote: |
| but I would go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire. |
There's no use for your kind of (sick) mentality that you would destroy property and possibly cause death or injury from the crap you burn.
| Quote: |
| Muslims hate it when he is made fun of |
Then quit acting like babies when someone says something you don't like.
| Quote: |
People when told to respect someone great such as Bill Gates, or President Bush obey.
|
Bullshit. Plain and simlpe bullshit. There's more fun made of Bush AND Gates than would have ever been made of Muhammad if the Muslims wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it.
Notice how now you're seeing so much more publicity about this? You know why? It's because you're burning shit down, causing people do die, destroying property, and we think you're pathetic for doing it. If you want people to stop making fun of you, then quit giving us such good reasons to do so.@bondings
i think there is one person from brazil who is making a cartoon on pope john paul , cant wait to see it
@sciondestiny
Boss i can only tell u one thing , if there is anyone who hates ur religion or hates muslims , then the muslims are at fault themselves ,
the people who live in england stage protest and glorify the people who bombed innocent people just months ago in london , they also carry slogans as kill all europeans ,
i mean WTF they (muslim protestors) live in that country , a country which provides them food ,shelter and security , and they are trying to destroy it ?
What is more damaging to islam , a third grade cartoon , or terrorisms ,
IF ur a True muslim , then raise ur voice against terrorisms,
do we see the same protests for terrorists , who take the name of allah and kill innocent people ?
| Devil wrote: |
@sciondestiny
IF ur a True muslim , then raise ur voice against terrorisms,
do we see the same protests for terrorists , who take the name of allah and kill innocent people ? |
How can he be a true Muslim, (provided Muslims truly are peaceful, which I believe the majority are), when he would openly admit that he would destroy buildings over some ef'n cartoons?
| Bondings wrote: |
There are already a lot of cartoons about Jesus and the Pope, mostly made by Europeans/American people themselves.
|
OK, well obviously I have to concede the point about the Pope, but the point about Jesus still stands. Even South Park, which remorselessly roasts everyone, treats Jesus (relatively speaking) with a lot of deference, and that is the only cartoon I've ever seen depicting Jesus. | sciondestiny wrote: |
Firstly I want to say that I do not support the riots that people are doing in the Muslim countries these days. I mean I am very disgusted and mad at them but I would go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire.
|
Is this a typo? If you yourself would "throw rocks at an embassy, or destroy buildings or even setting things on fire" then what is it that you are disgusted with about the Muslim rioters? | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| sciondestiny wrote: | Firstly I want to say that I do not support the riots that people are doing in the Muslim countries these days. I mean I am very disgusted and mad at them but I would go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire.
|
Is this a typo? |
Ahh, you may be right. I hope so. | mike1reynolds wrote: |
| Bondings wrote: | There are already a lot of cartoons about Jesus and the Pope, mostly made by Europeans/American people themselves.
|
OK, well obviously I have to concede the point about the Pope, but the point about Jesus still stands. Even South Park, which remorselessly roasts everyone, treats Jesus (relatively speaking) with a lot of deference, and that is the only cartoon I've ever seen depicting Jesus. |
It's just harder to search for "jesus cartoons" than for "pope cartoons" because there are a lot of news stories containing the first keyphrase. And yes, there are much less cartoons about Jesus I guess. But because you ask for it ...
Translation from German: The small Jesus at Genezareth lake: "Mom, I want to go into the water too".
| Bondings wrote: |
Translation from German: The small Jesus at Genezareth lake: "Mom, I want to go into the water too".
|
While this one is stupid and puerile, it isn't very inflammitory. Depicting Jesus as a super-human toddler is not an insult.
| Bondings wrote: |
|
This is neither about Jesus nor inflammitory. Its rather cute, suitable for children.
| Bondings wrote: |
|
While this one is pretty offensive it doesn't look the slightest bit like the common depiction of Jesus. It looks like the depiction of a Jewish commoner in a biblical movie. And while it reflects Jesus' circumstances, the Romans crucified thousands of Jews.
Despite this I could almost give you credit for this one, except that it is clearly an attempt just to be stupid and not a social commentary.
| Bondings wrote: |
|
This one isn't inflammitory, I think, I don't really get it.Cant find it now, but there's a good one of Jesus carrying a missle/bomb or something, cradling it like a baby. 
I have to agree that there aren't many cartoons about Jesus. However, there are lots of them about god.
| Bondings wrote: |
I have to agree that there aren't many cartoons about Jesus. However, there are lots of them about god.
|
LoL!
I forgot about that one. That's ancient! Haven't seen it in like 3 or 4 years.I didn't know that God is left handed...
He might not be. I'm not, but I use the mouse in my left hand. But then again, my "smite" key is on the right side of my keyboard.
No such thing as free speech, though if you vote for your facist party at least you know what your getting...
Anybody else notice the difference in reaction when Jesus is mocked in a cartoon vs when Muhammad is mocked in a cartoon?
Someone needs to relax and quit being so uptight.
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| Cant find it now, but there's a good one of Jesus carrying a missle/bomb or something, cradling it like a baby. |
So what was the social commentary of the cartoon? It's not quite clear due to lack of context. Was it a reference to right-wing conservative Christian war-mongering?
Here is what I'd like to see as a similar test of Christian fortitude against an honest opinion:
A depiction of the scene where Jesus calls a Canaanite woman a dog and says he only came for Jews, in Matthew 15:24-26. Christians familiar with these verses would say, oh he was only testing the woman's faith, that wasn't a racist comment. So in the middle of the cartoon would be a reference to this point of view, and then the bottom half of the cartoon would be a hypothetical of the same test in the present where Jesus calls a black person a filthy ****** and says that he only came for white people.
I think it is a perfectly valid criticism, not surprisingly since I came up with it, but I'll bet that if such a cartoon were printed in newspapers across the country that it would create a firestorm.I think anyone who doesn't believe there are "blasphemous" cartoons of Jesus should check out http://loljesus.com/
It's hilarious though. | SunburnedCactus wrote: |
I think anyone who doesn't believe there are "blasphemous" cartoons of Jesus should check out http://loljesus.com/
It's hilarious though. |
The difference is circulation. loljesus.com doesn't quite have the circulation of the New York Times or Washington Post.*Sighs*
People annoy the Hell out of me.
(Edited post)
Last edited by Soulfire on Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
| mike1reynolds wrote: |
| S3nd K3ys wrote: | | Cant find it now, but there's a good one of Jesus carrying a missle/bomb or something, cradling it like a baby. |
So what was the social commentary of the cartoon? It's not quite clear due to lack of context. Was it a reference to right-wing conservative Christian war-mongering?
Here is what I'd like to see as a similar test of Christian fortitude against an honest opinion:
A depiction of the scene where Jesus calls a Canaanite woman a dog and says he only came for Jews, in Matthew 15:24-26. Christians familiar with these verses would say, oh he was only testing the woman's faith, that wasn't a racist comment. So in the middle of the cartoon would be a reference to this point of view, and then the bottom half of the cartoon would be a hypothetical of the same test in the present where Jesus calls a black person a filthy ****** and says that he only came for white people.
I think it is a perfectly valid criticism, not surprisingly since I came up with it, but I'll bet that if such a cartoon were printed in newspapers across the country that it would create a firestorm. |
I don’t think that would work well. Anyone who would be offended by a Jesus cartoon probably has read more than just little snippets of the bible and would not have such an odd interpretation, especially any one knowing and history of the region.
I have read all of Mathew and it is obvious that Jesus was using a euphemism, comparing the Jews (people believing in God) to children and Canaanites (there being no Canaanite region at the time the term was one used be the Jews to describe some group of nonbelievers in God, or one true God….) to the pet dog. The woman speaking to him was not a Jew. She asked him to heal her daughter. This was blatantly strange because she was not a Jew i.e. had no reason to believe in the prophecies of Jesus and so on.
Jesus, apparently curious or maybe wanting to make a point said, I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel and then asked her, using the euphemism, why would he through his children’s bread to their dogs. She answers with the fact that the dog would get the children’s crumbs. Jesus then commends her on her wisdom and heals her child.
I would just assume the author of such a cartoon was intending only to offend and was unable to come up with anything offensive.
These Mohamed cartoons are very offensive because of the current terrorist trouble. The reason there are Muslims going stupid over it is because they are uneducated and ruled by people that use their religion to insight such behavior for their own means. It has less to do with Islam and more to do with politics. | Soulfire wrote: |
It's a shame people dislike religion so much they have to resort to making websites such as loljesus.com.
It's disgusting really. Why do people get their panties in a bunch whenever we say the word "God." Is it because they are aware of their eternal damnation?
Oh well, in the end, I'll be in heaven, and unfortunately I will be watching people (like those who run loljesus.com) burn in hell. It's a sad thought, but if they aren't willing to open their hearts and minds, they're doomed. |
Soulfire, for crying out loud.
“You did not choose me but I chose you” sound familiar
I don’t think a true believer in the Lord would gloat about being in “heaven” and watching people in “hell”. This is the kind of thing that makes Christians look like bible swinging nut jobs.
I don’t remember Jesus or any of the apostles preaching “ohhhh you just wait till we’re all kikin back in heaven whatchin everyone that has hurt our feelings burrnnn burn burn.”
“Forgive them father for they know not what they do” that’s another fancy one. | horseatingweeds wrote: |
| Soulfire wrote: | It's a shame people dislike religion so much they have to resort to making websites such as loljesus.com.
It's disgusting really. Why do people get their panties in a bunch whenever we say the word "God." Is it because they are aware of their eternal damnation?
Oh well, in the end, I'll be in heaven, and unfortunately I will be watching people (like those who run loljesus.com) burn in hell. It's a sad thought, but if they aren't willing to open their hearts and minds, they're doomed. |
Soulfire, for crying out loud.
“You did not choose me but I chose you” sound familiar
I don’t think a true believer in the Lord would gloat about being in “heaven” and watching people in “hell”. This is the kind of thing that makes Christians look like bible swinging nut jobs.
I don’t remember Jesus or any of the apostles preaching “ohhhh you just wait till we’re all kikin back in heaven whatchin everyone that has hurt our feelings burrnnn burn burn.”
“Forgive them father for they know not what they do” that’s another fancy one. |
Gloating about it? I said unfortunately and that it was a sad thing, but it's the truth. If you do not accept Christ as the Lord and Savior, Son of the Living God... then you are doomed, that is my belief. I will not put it in the corner and cover it up just because it might offend someone, because I am not ashamed to profess my faith.
Nut job? No. I didn't even mention the Bible, perhaps you should read my post again.
It's not as if I said "Haha, you'll be burning in Hell and I'll be watching you." I don't want anyone to burn in hell, but like I said earlier, if you reject Jesus and God, you're going there.
So please do not twist my words and try to flame me with them, thanks.loljesus is one of the most disguisting things i've ever seen.
it actually tells us what i have said earlier, that we ARE really a primitive society...
@s3ndk3ys:
i would actually like to hear some real argument from you and all the others who just keep sayin..."yeah, well they need to grow up.." ..."and stop being babies.."..."sum'one should change their diapers..." and such!
that's no real argument!
stop typing and start reading!
once again: The fact that we do not find cartoons about Jesus, Messiah, Mohammad, Pope, etc offensive, does NOT make us more liberate, free, better, or whatever else you are trying to make us look! I think the point here is, that we are so mature (grown up, unlike those crazy Muslims), that we think it's ok to mock some of the most important people in human history!
Well, I'll tell you something, that's nothing but pure vandalism, barbarism, and ignorance.
stop typing and start reading!
and i don't support violence on the Muslim side either, but the newspaper knew what they're playing with, and they still did it.
hell, even i know a true Muslim nature, and i have only a couple of real Muslim friends...i mean the religious ones...the others don't give a ******...
i even know how sensitive they are about these issues, and how they stand up for what they belive in.
so, a newspaper company, whose job is to KNOW, and be informed, must not have done such a thing!
and the real ignorance comes not from the reactions afterwards (of the newspaper), but from the fact that they assumed they can treat another religion, in the same mocking, humiliating way they treat their own. Their own!
you stop typing and read this and tell me i'm wrong. i can't wait for it!
p.s. i appologize for kinda stealing and using someone's sig...won't do it anymore.. | horseatingweeds wrote: |
I have read all of Mathew and it is obvious that Jesus was using a euphemism...
|
That is an interesting term for a racist slur.
| horseatingweeds wrote: |
...comparing the Jews (people believing in God) to children and Canaanites (there being no Canaanite region at the time the term was one used be the Jews to describe some group of nonbelievers in God, or one true God….) to the pet dog. The woman speaking to him was not a Jew.
|
Obviously. The insult couldn't be a racist remark if she were of the same race.
| horseatingweeds wrote: |
She asked him to heal her daughter. This was blatantly strange because she was not a Jew i.e. had no reason to believe in the prophecies of Jesus and so on.
|
Jesus is quite courteous to the Roman captain who makes a similar request in Matthew 8:5. The Roman captain had no more reason to believe.
| horseatingweeds wrote: |
Jesus, apparently curious or maybe wanting to make a point said, I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel...
|
Jesus was just curious? The woman is chasing after them wailing for his help with her stricken young daughter and he ignores her completely. The disciples say, "Tell her to leave. She is bothering us with all her begging." (NLV) So Jesus says to her that he only came for the Jews. She runs up to him and kneels at his feet "worshiping" him and says, "O Lord, Son of David, have pity on me!" This is when he makes the racist slur.
So why then is Jesus so much more courteous to the Roman captain who is asking for help with his adult servant than to this woman asking for help with her young daughter?
| horseatingweeds wrote: |
I don’t think that would work well. Anyone who would be offended by a Jesus cartoon probably has read more than just little snippets of the bible and would not have such an odd interpretation, especially any one knowing and history of the region.
|
The supposition being that I am not familiar with the history of the region. Wishful thinking. Quite to the contrary, virtually no Christians, other than Jews For Jesus, seem to have the slightest understanding of the cultural context of Judaism. Have you ever been to Temple? When translated from Hebrew with a proper understanding of Jewish mysticism the new testament is dramatically richer and more profound for people with a deep understanding of spirituality, although the average person without any spiritual education in comparative religion would not truly be able to understand.
As an example of the pervasive profound historical ignorance of Christians, most think of the Bible as a single book, rather than recognizing the profoundly diverse anthology that it actually is. That, to me, is like thinking that Jesus spoke English. And how many Christians know that the gospel of John was very nearly declared heretical by the council of Nicea, winning passage only by a narrow margin? How many Christians know that the councils of Nicea were blood baths, where 90% of the material on Jesus was obliterated and the adherents of those band traditions were put to death? The few that do know this site the worst examples (sure, some fraction of it was fruitcake stuff and deserved to be destroyed) and know nothing about the real political forces behind the conflict. During the first Nicean council the Arian-Athanasian controversy over whether to adopt the doctrine of the trinity resulted in more Christians being murdered by their fellow Christians than had been put to death during all of the previous 250 years of Roman persecution combined.
As to the quality of the important works that were destroyed, the gospel of Thomas, for example, is widely recognized by theologians as the source of Matthew, Mark and Luke, and there is nothing crazy or heretical about it. Most of the works about Jesus that were destroyed, were destroyed for political reasons, not spiritual reasons. The new testament is an anthology compiled by Roman politicians for their own political gain; the books that were included or excluded were done so for political reasons, not spiritual reasons.
(BTW, I'm not Jewish, but I've debated theology with a lot of Jews and even the neocons who think the world is 6,000 years old tend to have more spiritual understanding than most Christians.)
Last edited by mike1reynolds on Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:47 am; edited 2 times in total | Soulfire wrote: |
Gloating about it? I said unfortunately and that it was a sad thing, but it's the truth... It's not as if I said "Haha, you'll be burning in Hell and I'll be watching you." I don't want anyone to burn in hell, but like I said earlier, if you reject Jesus and God, you're going there.
|
Laughter is hardly a requirement for condescension and gloating. If you really think that God will damn someone for following their honest beliefs then maybe you aren't going where you think you are. Your point of view, while not physically violent, is no more enlightened than the Muslim fanaticism that is the topic of this thread. They act the way they do because they think exactly the way that you do.
| Soulfire wrote: |
If you do not accept Christ as the Lord and Savior, Son of the Living God... then you are doomed, that is my belief. I will not put it in the corner and cover it up just because it might offend someone,
|
Horseatingweeds is not offended, he is a Christian who is embarrassed by the guilt by association that your facile judgment and condemnation casts on him, since you superficially share the same religion.
'Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in. On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles." But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"'
Matthew 7:21-23
This flatly contradicts what you claim. Giving lip service to God is of no help to you what-so-ever. Do you really think that your judgment and condemnation is obedience to God? Quite to the contrary, "Judge not least ye be judged." It is the very thoughts that you think make you Christian that will bar you from Heaven. An atheist who is moral and does good works is obedient to God. Obedience to God is not an intellectual concept, it is a kind of behavior and concern for others. Heaven is not a clubhouse where the proper pass phrase will get you in. You proclaim that you are saved, as if simply by saying it, it makes it so. You do not earn salvation by parroting the right phrases, that is an insult to your religion. Thus Horseatingweeds's reaction. You earn salvation by the way that you treat others. Condemnation for not believing the way that you do is precisely the sort of thoughtless intolerant behavior that will bar your path to Heaven.[quote="S3nd K3ys"] | sciondestiny wrote: |
| but I would go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire. |
There's no use for your kind of (sick) mentality that you would destroy property and possibly cause death or injury from the crap you burn.
Um K lol sorry about that it was a typo on my side. I was actually in a rush so I did not have enough time to check everything. What I meant to say was:
"But I would not go as far as throwing rocks at an embassy, or destroying buildings or even setting things on fire."
Once again I am really sorry if I made anyone mad, or like scared because I seriously did not mean that. It was a typo on my behalf I will fix the earlier post, once again sorry!
Also S3ND K3YS we would not be doing all of this if the Americans and British and a bit of French were not making us do it. I am actually researching something, I saw it on the news that is EURO news, and I wanted to show you guys this. Maybe you will beleive and maybe not that is up to you. | Devil wrote: |
@bondings
i think there is one person from brazil who is making a cartoon on pope john paul , cant wait to see it
@sciondestiny
Boss i can only tell u one thing , if there is anyone who hates ur religion or hates muslims , then the muslims are at fault themselves ,
the people who live in england stage protest and glorify the people who bombed innocent people just months ago in london , they also carry slogans as kill all europeans ,
i mean WTF they (muslim protestors) live in that country , a country which provides them food ,shelter and security , and they are trying to destroy it ?
What is more damaging to islam , a third grade cartoon , or terrorisms ,
IF ur a True muslim , then raise ur voice against terrorisms,
do we see the same protests for terrorists , who take the name of allah and kill innocent people ? |
DEVIL I want to say somethign to that post. The problem these days is that everyone sees what the Eastern Muslims are doing - which in this case would be destroying, burning, killing, and many other things only God knows of!.
I live in Canda and maybe only once in like a quick second thing did the news bring up what Muslims are doing here! Just recently we had a protest in downtown Toronto, and the Muslims went on a peaceful protest! We did not throw bombs, kill anyone, or even destroy anything. All we did was show how many of us condemn those pictures to the government! I would also like to say this but sadly Eastern Muslim countries are beginning to become more and more like Western countries. Denying their faith and losing their true Islamic faith! I am also sad and surprised to see that Muslims in the West are better Muslims and believrs than those rasied in a Muslim country.
Muslims in the East hardly condemned the terrorist attacks and some even said continue which I desagree with. If they hate being attakced then why say hit Ammerica, or Britain those are countries inhabtated by people too! If you do a bit of research and I will try to do so, you will see that many organizations and Masjids (Muslims Churches) have condemend them here in the west. We have even sent replies to the governments saying hwo we disapprove of such attacks and if it was based on people who say they are Muslim then we ask for pardon. If you ask me in general, Muslims in the West and the East are like two different sects totally yet they say they are on the same faith.
| Quote: |
Devil wrote:
@sciondestiny
IF ur a True muslim , then raise ur voice against terrorisms,
do we see the same protests for terrorists , who take the name of allah and kill innocent people ?
How can he be a true Muslim, (provided Muslims truly are peaceful, which I believe the majority are), when he would openly admit that he would destroy buildings over some ef'n cartoons?
Rolling Eyes
|
S3ND K3YS, I posted to that comment, it is connected to teh typo one and once again sorry about that. Also I live in the West, Canda for that matter and I am a proud faithful Muslim. I also hate war, fighting for no reaosn unless it is self-defense. I also hate many other things like making things popular when they are not, which is with the case of the cartoons. Muslims in the East I would say are sort of making a bad impression on some of use here in the West, making it harder for us to show who Prophet Muhammad (SAW) really was!
Once again sorry about the typo people! | srdjan wrote: |
loljesus is one of the most disguisting things i've ever seen.
it actually tells us what i have said earlier, that we ARE really a primitive society...
@s3ndk3ys:
i would actually like to hear some real argument from you and all the others who just keep sayin..."yeah, well they need to grow up.." ..."and stop being babies.."..."sum'one should change their diapers..." and such!
that's no real argument!
stop typing and start reading!
once again: The fact that we do not find cartoons about Jesus, Messiah, Mohammad, Pope, etc offensive, does NOT make us more liberate, free, better, or whatever else you are trying to make us look! I think the point here is, that we are so mature (grown up, unlike those crazy Muslims), that we think it's ok to mock some of the most important people in human history!
Well, I'll tell you something, that's nothing but pure vandalism, barbarism, and ignorance.
stop typing and start reading!
and i don't support violence on the Muslim side either, but the newspaper knew what they're playing with, and they still did it.
hell, even i know a true Muslim nature, and i have only a couple of real Muslim friends...i mean the religious ones...the others don't give a ****...
i even know how sensitive they are about these issues, and how they stand up for what they belive in.
so, a newspaper company, whose job is to KNOW, and be informed, must not have done such a thing!
and the real ignorance comes not from the reactions afterwards (of the newspaper), but from the fact that they assumed they can treat another religion, in the same mocking, humiliating way they treat their own. Their own!
you stop typing and read this and tell me i'm wrong. i can't wait for it!
p.s. i appologize for kinda stealing and using someone's sig...won't do it anymore.. |
You're wrong if you think it's justified to riot, destroy property or kill because of a cartoon. Period. | sciondestiny wrote: |
S3ND K3YS, I posted to that comment, it is connected to teh typo one and once again sorry about that. Also I live in the West, Canda for that matter and I am a proud faithful Muslim. I also hate war, fighting for no reaosn unless it is self-defense. I also hate many other things like making things popular when they are not, which is with the case of the cartoons. Muslims in the East I would say are sort of making a bad impression on some of use here in the West, making it harder for us to show who Prophet Muhammad (SAW) really was!
Once again sorry about the typo people! |
Thanks for clearing that up. I take back what I said when I posted earlier.
As for 'making things popular', this issue (the cartoons) would have died months ago if the Saudi and Iranian governments wouldn't have brought it back up and made a big deal out of it. Now it's national news every day and people have died because of it.
Hundreds of thousands of (radical?) Muslims jumped blindly on the bandwagon, destroying buildings and causing the deaths/injury of dozens of people.
For what?
For a cartoon.
A cartoon. | Quote: |
DEVIL I want to say somethign to that post. The problem these days is that everyone sees what the Eastern Muslims are doing - which in this case would be destroying, burning, killing, and many other things only God knows of!.
I live in Canda and maybe only once in like a quick second thing did the news bring up what Muslims are doing here! Just recently we had a protest in downtown Toronto, and the Muslims went on a peaceful protest! We did not throw bombs, kill anyone, or even destroy anything. All we did was show how many of us condemn those pictures to the government! I would also like to say this but sadly Eastern Muslim countries are beginning to become more and more like Western countries. Denying their faith and losing their true Islamic faith! I am also sad and surprised to see that Muslims in the West are better Muslims and believrs than those rasied in a Muslim country.
Muslims in the East hardly condemned the terrorist attacks and some even said continue which I desagree with. If they hate being attakced then why say hit Ammerica, or Britain those are countries inhabtated by people too! If you do a bit of research and I will try to do so, you will see that many organizations and Masjids (Muslims Churches) have condemend them here in the west. We have even sent replies to the governments saying hwo we disapprove of such attacks and if it was based on people who say they are Muslim then we ask for pardon. If you ask me in general, Muslims in the West and the East are like two different sects totally yet they say they are on the same faith! |
Boss it is totally diff to watch these protest on TV ,i face this here everyday , if u read the above post , u will see a innocent indian man was beaten to death near where i live , u cannot even talk in favour of the dutch , the atmosphere here is like whatever they say or Do is Right , and everyone else is wrong ,
here they use the sharia law too , i have many muslims freinds here and also in canada , but none of them are like this , the real problem of muslims is that they judge everyone ,i mean each and every person ,
like i saw a interveiw on ARY digital of the information minister of Pakistan , they were asking him about the protest that was held in lahore , they asked him why dint u join them , he said he was busy , ARY being a pakistani channel is also muslim , so the person asked him are u not a good muslim , why dint u join them ,
the minister said then ,that he supported the protest but couldnt go cuz he was too busy ,
so this what happens , if a muslim doesnt go to mosque everyone will start asking him questions , islam is like a society , and everyone does follow the islam to please other muslims ,
Like in ramzan here all the shops are closed , ur not allowed to eat or evern drink water in public , or front of anyone , if ur caught u will be punished , so some muslim freinds used to come to my house to eat something , cuz not even thier parents would allow them to eat , or they would be just scared that what other would think about them , [/quote] | Billy Hill wrote: |
Anybody else notice the difference in reaction when Jesus is mocked in a cartoon vs when Muhammad is mocked in a cartoon?
. |
Yup. 
How about, instead of personal attacks, we head back to the topic that we're on.
Thanks.
I thought i said I wasn't supportive of the riots...
But I need to hear why I, or anyone else here should be supportive of the behaviour displayed by the danish newspaper...or actually the danish tabloid!
I gave quite a strong argument against it...
Now, if you or anyone else has a valid statement against mine, then I'll accept it..So far I haven't heard a single one...
And another thing! If your aim originally was to judge the Muslim society for reacting the way they did, then you should've done so from the start.
Now, all that is being displayed here as 'support', actually adds more fuel to the fire...answering to violence with more violence (or support to those who have been violent, in any way) is not the solution!
| srdjan wrote: |
I thought i said I wasn't supportive of the riots...
But I need to hear why I, or anyone else here should be supportive of the behaviour displayed by the danish newspaper...or actually the danish tabloid!
I gave quite a strong argument against it...
Now, if you or anyone else has a valid statement against mine, then I'll accept it..So far I haven't heard a single one...
And another thing! If your aim originally was to judge the Muslim society for reacting the way they did, then you should've done so from the start.
Now, all that is being displayed here as 'support', actually adds more fuel to the fire...answering to violence with more violence (or support to those who have been violent, in any way) is not the solution! |
So we should limit Free Speech to ONLY SPEACH THAT DOESN'T OFFEND ANY MUSLIMS?
How about the (radical) Muslims quit being crybabies about the cartoons. There's plenty more to get mad about. | Soulfire wrote: |
How about, instead of personal attacks, we head back to the topic that we're on.
Thanks. |
And telling someone they are going to Hell for not thinking the way you do is not a personal attack? Most of what I said to you was straight from the Bible. Telling you what the Bible says about your point of view is a personal attack?Aaaand we're back to square 1....
| S3nd K3ys wrote: |
| sciondestiny wrote: |
S3ND K3YS, I posted to that comment, it is connected to teh typo one and once again sorry about that. Also I live in the West, Canda for that matter and I am a proud faithful Muslim. I also hate war, fighting for no reaosn unless it is self-defense. I also hate many other things like making things popular when they are not, which is with the case of the cartoons. Muslims in the East I would say are sort of making a bad impression on some of use here in the West, making it harder for us to show who Prophet Muhammad (SAW) really was!
Once again sorry about the typo people! |
Thanks for clearing that up. I take back what I said when I posted earlier.
As for 'making things popular', this issue (the cartoons) would have died months ago if the Saudi and Iranian governments wouldn't have brought it back up and made a big deal out of it. Now it's national news every day and people have died because of it.
Hundreds of thousands of (radical?) Muslims jumped blindly on the bandwagon, destroying buildings and causing the deaths/injury of dozens of people.
For what?
For a cartoon.
A cartoon. |
Hmm,,, S3ND K3YS you are exactly thinking what I and many other Muslims here in the West are thinking! I mean it is like "Satanic Verses" all over again! I mean Salman farisi wrote a book that no one even knew existed, once one person saw it he showed it to others and it turned into a national thing. I mean I thought the Muslims of East would have learned by now that that is not hwo to get something gone, like if they continue on like this they not only will give a bad Rep. to themselves but to all Muslims!
I did not say Islam seeing as most Muslims these days do not even follow what the Qur'an or te Sunnah tell them to do. And I will discuss this in my other post I will make now! | Devil wrote: |
| Quote: |
DEVIL I want to say somethign to that post. The problem these days is that everyone sees what the Eastern Muslims are doing - which in this case would be destroying, burning, killing, and many other things only God knows of!.
I live in Canda and maybe only once in like a quick second thing did the news bring up what Muslims are doing here! Just recently we had a protest in downtown Toronto, and the Muslims went on a peaceful protest! We did not throw bombs, kill anyone, or even destroy anything. All we did was show how many of us condemn those pictures to the government! I would also like to say this but sadly Eastern Muslim countries are beginning to become more and more like Western countries. Denying their faith and losing their true Islamic faith! I am also sad and surprised to see that Muslims in the West are better Muslims and believrs than those rasied in a Muslim country.
Muslims in the East hardly condemned the terrorist attacks and some even said continue which I desagree with. If they hate being attakced then why say hit Ammerica, or Britain those are countries inhabtated by people too! If you do a bit of research and I will try to do so, you will see that many organizations and Masjids (Muslims Churches) have condemend them here in the west. We have even sent replies to the governments saying hwo we disapprove of such attacks and if it was based on people who say they are Muslim then we ask for pardon. If you ask me in general, Muslims in the West and the East are like two different sects totally yet they say they are on the same faith! |
Boss it is totally diff to watch these protest on TV ,i face this here everyday , if u read the above post , u will see a innocent indian man was beaten to death near where i live , u cannot even talk in favour of the dutch , the atmosphere here is like whatever they say or Do is Right , and everyone else is wrong ,
here they use the sharia law too , i have many muslims freinds here and also in canada , but none of them are like this , the real problem of muslims is that they judge everyone ,i mean each and every person ,
like i saw a interveiw on ARY digital of the information minister of Pakistan , they were asking him about the protest that was held in lahore , they asked him why dint u join them , he said he was busy , ARY being a pakistani channel is also muslim , so the person asked him are u not a good muslim , why dint u join them ,
the minister said then ,that he supported the protest but couldnt go cuz he was too busy ,
so this what happens , if a muslim doesnt go to mosque everyone will start asking him questions , islam is like a society , and everyone does follow the islam to please other muslims ,
Like in ramzan here all the shops are closed , ur not allowed to eat or evern drink water in public , or front of anyone , if ur caught u will be punished , so some muslim freinds used to come to my house to eat something , cuz not even thier parents would allow them to eat , or they would be just scared that what other would think about them , |
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OK that sounds too scary yet I believe it, for a simple reason that there is stuff like that and if you read my post before this one I said that Muslims are no longer following teh true teachings if Islam, Qur'an or even Sunnah! I am sad to say that they are actually making their own laws, in Islam this is called BIDA. This is a very bad thing to do seeing as you are putting your status as high as God by making your own laws, and it is very much disliked in Islam - so far as I know this is not punishable unless BIda was involved and made punishable!!! Also Devil I would like to tell your friends that if they wish not to follow or be Muslims then tell them to leave their country and do what they wish seeing as they are not supposed to be forced to live as Muslims. And if they cannot take a whole day of fasting, even though it seems impossible seeing as they should be young and strong then they are also not forced but it is a very bad thing since Allah(God) ordered all Muslims to do so.
But we come back to the issue that form what I see Muslims where you live in are just saying they are Muslims to make others believe. I believe the ocrrect term is hypocrisy and those people should not be tortured because they are not Muslims. I think the Muslim council should look into thsi and see if it is true, also fix it! | sciondestiny wrote: |
I did not say Islam seeing as most Muslims these days do not even follow what the Qur'an or te Sunnah tell them to do. And I will discuss this in my other post I will make now!
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I have a question about Islam, the Qur'an and Hadiths. I spent about 4 years trying to read, but I cold never get through more than a few pages at a time. It read like the hellfire and brimstone sermon of a conservative southern Baptist minister with attention deficit disorder, practically every paragraph was on a different topic. But I kept reading for years, waiting for it to make sense, with the firm conviction that all world religions must come from God. The payoff never came, I never found anything that seemed the slightest bit spiritual in the Qur’an, except in the footnotes. The footnote entries were quotes from the Hadiths, and they were focused and to the point, entirely in contrast to the Qur’an itself. I later found out why…