Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian?
| forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
i'd have to disagree with you....[url=ajdskfasjgias gaisngoadsfg afdsgoifjg a odf gjoeirnaer oge rgoqeirng erog neri eoringqoei goeirng oargo dfijg oeiner ghoaifg adofigho eri goahrfgo iadfhgoidahfg oire hnfodijagdofmgiero g oeih rgoii hdfgoisahdfoi gaioerg hoeringo idafnogaihdf ogdfihg orieoieng oaifhgo hroeaihgr esdjfklasd fjaksd fjiasglr iglisfdhglaisdf glarihg alihfsdgiaslf gjilrjalsdfhgla igfhlai dfg hlire ghliasdfngl aifgh alri hgtlafighliamfsdgliafg lahidsfgl ring lasifglasdfigh alsdihfg laisdfgnlirnglaif glaisfdhglirhg laiaksdfjglaskdjg askgj alfk gjiadf glrij jglaidfj glidfa gjladifj glaidfj glaidfjg lri jgidfalgiji ladfijg adfilgjdfligjladifjg dfliajg flidjg fdgijsngleri ge].[/url] it just depends on where you look
also if your not a christian you most likely aren't hanging around christains and they'd avoid you too. (considering the remark 
)
also how did you gather your info?
Last edited by BugBear on Sat May 13, 2006 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in totalThere are plenty of educated Christians.
Look at George W. Bush....
aah....
Bad example 
Seriously though, you must be joking.
What was the method of your research on this?
I know Christians who are Accountants, Lawyers, Engineers and Labourers.
Just like anyone else there are all spectrums.
I'd like to know how you can tell who are the Christians at your University? i think the most illitrate religion is Islam ,
now i dont mean to bad when i say this , but i have seen a majority of muslims , they dont care for education , they marry thier daughters at the age of 14 , and thier sons at the age of 18 ,
my freind who happened to be a muslim ,but did not study , i asked him about this , he said it is said in thier religion that only the knowledge of quran is important to them ,
thats why majority in india many muslims kids dont go to school , but i really hope it should change , and people should be more aware of thier rights,
christains on the other hand beleave ,that where there is a church ,there should be a school too , thats why u will find anywhere there is a church , there will be a school ,
they say if ur not educated then u will not understand the meaning of gods words , and that is the reason , christains are one of the most educated religions on earth ,
I am a Christian and I'm living in a country where most of the population is Christians....and unfortunately we are listed as one of the most corrupt country in the world...And I see good christians here anyway...but there are so many Christians that are uneducated...For me it doesn't matter who you are, what your religion is...I love muslims and other religions...The main point is we are living in the same "roof". Christians or not...we have our own weaknesses and strengths...
That's all folks!
| Quote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
|
Hmm, so I guess you have not met many christians indeed :] I don't know how is it like in your country but in the place where I live the most of intelectual elits are christian 
| vinx_18 wrote: |
I am a Christian and I'm living in a country where most of the population is Christians....and unfortunately we are listed as one of the most corrupt country in the world...And I see good christians here anyway...but there are so many Christians that are uneducated...For me it doesn't matter who you are, what your religion is...I love muslims and other religions...The main point is we are living in the same "roof". Christians or not...we have our own weaknesses and strengths...
That's all folks! |
Please be kind enough to tell which country that is | Devil wrote: |
Please be kind enough to tell which country that is |
He's got it in his profile - Philippines, can't you see? 
and as I wrote before, there is a lot of educated Christians in Poland (and please, don't ask me where Poland is :/) | the_mariska wrote: |
| Devil wrote: |
Please be kind enough to tell which country that is |
He's got it in his profile - Philippines, can't you see? and as I wrote before, there is a lot of educated Christians in Poland (and please, don't ask me where Poland is :/) |
Where is Poland? Nah ofcourse i know its just a little bit north from here. 
Anyway my country is considered a Christian one too but i didnt know personally any christian from an university i went to. That doesnt mean there are none. | Sappho wrote: |
Where is Poland? Nah ofcourse i know its just a little bit north from here. Anyway my country is considered a Christian one too but i didnt know personally any christian from an university i went to. That doesnt mean there are none. |
Hahaha, greetings my dear neighbour 
I knew that you couldn't be from America, your posts were too intelligent
Anyway, still don't know how some of you came up with this theory. Belief has nothing to do with education. Maybe in the case of muslims or some new religions, but certainly not with Christianity. You can be an idiot as a believer or an atheist, no difference No, it's the more science oritentated you are the less likely you are to be Christian. People like scientists who take everything face value, and don't go in depth.
I am Christian, it's not bullcrap, and I have a 3.95 GPA. Nothing can shake my faith.
well, like soulfire said, around science there wont be as many because science seems to want to prove the bible wrong... so that makes it seem it would be more limited to non-christians
oh and really nice GPA soulfire...can't say the same for my 2.8
its not great, but that dosn't mean I'm uneducated
actually, I think things like the theary of evolution has not been proved
but creationism is WAY more likely if you look at it in a non-christian way but thats what I believe I dont want to, in any way shape or form push my beliefs on other people that woudn't be right
| Soulfire wrote: |
| People like scientists who take everything face value, and don't go in depth. |
U mean ppl that rather trust logic than something that was made up out of thin air. Anyway go ur way and let the others choose their own. | the_mariska wrote: |
| Sappho wrote: |
Where is Poland? Nah ofcourse i know its just a little bit north from here. Anyway my country is considered a Christian one too but i didnt know personally any christian from an university i went to. That doesnt mean there are none. |
Hahaha, greetings my dear neighbour I knew that you couldn't be from America, your posts were too intelligent
Anyway, still don't know how some of you came up with this theory. Belief has nothing to do with education. Maybe in the case of muslims or some new religions, but certainly not with Christianity. You can be an idiot as a believer or an atheist, no difference |
She is from Slovakia. you also forget to see her profile. | Soulfire wrote: |
No, it's the more science oritentated you are the less likely you are to be Christian. People like scientists who take everything face value, and don't go in depth.
I am Christian, it's not bullcrap, and I have a 3.95 GPA. Nothing can shake my faith. |
Scientists don't go in depth? new thing for me. btw, who goes in depth then? | nam_siddharth wrote: |
| She is from Slovakia. you also forget to see her profile. |
I noticed this, that's why I wrote "my dear neighbour " :p OK, let finish this or they're gonna ban me for writing off topic.
| Quote: |
| well, like soulfire said, around science there wont be as many because science seems to want to prove the bible wrong... so that makes it seem it would be more limited to non-christians |
Not exactly. Bible has nothing to do with science as it deals about only spiritual part of reality, the laws of nature can be discovered only by science, not by Bible. I don't believe there are still people who take Bible word by word. Science and Bible are not against each other, they just deal about very different things
BTW. In my city, Lublin there's one of the biggest catholic universities in Europe. (John Paul second used to teach here, before he became a pope. ) Maybe that's why I can see educated Catholics all around me LOL.Here in Greece, 92% of the people are Christians.ALMOST ALL PEOPLE get the the high school.Most of them, afterwards to a college, or a university...They still are christians.The problem is the same in all religions(exept for a few the forbid education, like islam, if i am not wrong).
Religions talk about something that scientists can't explain, and something that cannot be proven...Something that ignores all physical laws, and doesn't give a S**T about maths...
ALLWAYS CHECK YOUR SOURCES!And take it statistically...don't think about 2-4 people that you know only...That is just Verryyyy stupid...
| forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
buddy, before you have the guts to post items like this, try to support your claims with statistics. Your opinion is very subjective and if we talk of christian particulars who are very educated, we would not be able to enumerate them. Also, "the more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian" whoah, that's discrimination. What exactly are you trying to say with this? | forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
Because of course someone's religion defines how educated/intelligent. Which is why public schools seperate church from the institution, to give all the stupid stupid Christians a chance to redeem themselves. 
Wow, what an ignorant unintelligent post. I am a Christian and am in my second year of college. I am getting a degree in Environmental Biology, and my GPA is 3.75, even some of my professors are Christians so, buddy you really are talking out of your a**hole and don't have a clue.
| coolclay wrote: |
| even some of my professors are Christians |
I thought, most of USA is christian! But, perhaps I was wrong. You are very wrong, the majority of Americans are atheists (don't believe in a God)
I think what a lot of it is could be that educated people are more prone to curiosity when it comes to things that are held at a standard, like religion. There are some educated people though that aren't afraid to admit that their religion may be wrong. In all honesty, there is no way to prove or disprove it at the moment.
| the_mariska wrote: |
| You can be an idiot as a believer or an atheist, no difference |
Basically, what you're saying is that idiocy breaks the borders of religion, country, caste and creed? I agree
As far as Christians being uneducated is concerned... I really don't think it has anything to do with the religion. It might have a lot to do with which region you're in.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| No, it's the more science oritentated you are the less likely you are to be Christian. |
This is probably true, but not limited to Christianity... it's probably the same with a lot of other religions too.
And let's keep our replies a little non-flamey please.I'll be honest and say that I am both Christian and educated. But if someone has a different point of view, have at it. I totally respect everyone's right to beleive what they wish. If tangable proof comes to disprove my religion, then I would embrace it and not go and call it heracy(sp?) or something. The main reason why I say this is because I come from a town of about 10,000 that had about 5,000 churches in it. Damn near EVERYONE was a hell bent christian and people constantly feuded about who was right and who was wrong...it was pretty weak. Heh, I think the problem is that people just need to learn to get along.
Christians are educated.
To follow Christ is actually a mark of being educated. The Bible speaks of discipline, humility and lots more things that taught us Chrisitians not to speak bad and rude of other people and their beliefs (which is just un-educated).
Is calling somebody's religion a bull crap a sign of an educated person?
Well, if you think it is, then you might need your head checked.
And if you find it hard to understand, maybe try opening your shut eyes and ears open?
Are you kidding me. I know alot of christians that can be considered geniuses. Hell most of the intelligent people at the school I went to were christians, mind you not strict ones but christians non the less.
Religion is usually associated with lack of intelligence but to believe in one doesn't always represent this fact. The smartest scientist I know just happens to be a Christian as well. It depends on the outlook of the individual.
I would like to disagree with what your saying. I am Christian and though my grades dont reflect that I am intellegent, I would like to say I have taken an IQ test in the past and scored a 160 on it (It was at least higher than 140, was about 2 years ago when I took it). I just am very lazy and am too concerned with doing something more entertaining such as learn a programming language or design something in a video game.
Also, I have a theory why the people that have some sort of religous base (No matter what religion) perform better academically at school. I have the theory that because they have a purpose or a sence of having a purpose, this makes them strive to to better in school whereas the people at my school that seem to be there because they are forced to be there and dont really care about having a religion do not perform as well academically.
i dont think so!
hardly disagree
Is there not very many Christians in Australia? Because that could be why there's not very many at your university. And anyways, how did you even come across this info. and where did you get it from?
I don't think that you could be any more wrong. The vast majority of educated people are Christian. Look at world politics. The two strongest areas are Western Europe and the United States, both Christian dominated areas. Look at some of the poorer countries, they are run by islamic theocracies or other types of religion. The occidental tradition of education is the strongest in the world. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly mistaken.
| forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
now, personally I consider bigotry to be a trait of uneducated people, despite the fact that most anti-christian atheists tend to think they are quite well-educated. To me, education implies ability to understand, and anyone who thinks that anyones personal life-choices(sexuality, religion, politics) are directly related to their intelligence or educational levels doesn't know a damn thing about not only statistics, but basic human psychology.
People choose religion for reasons that have nothing to do with scholastics, and scholastics have no impact on whether or not they commit to those religions. In the right hands, religion and science can easily go hand in hand. In my experience it is those people who are dedicated to their religion who are dedicated to their studies. be that religion christianity, judaism, atheism, or anything else. it's more a question of passion and dedication than one of intelligence or right-mindedness. | Quote: |
| I have the theory that because they have a purpose or a sence of having a purpose |
Why is it that only religion can impart that characteristic in you?
I have a great purpose to study and better myself at everything I do, and it is in no way concerned to my religion. To say that people who are not religious have no purpose in life is not right.He didn't say that people who aren't believers don't have a purpose in life, he said that people who are believers DO... To be perfectly honest though, there are probably more Atheists who feel they have no purpose (ie. Universally insignificant) than any other group of people. After all, if we came here just out of nowhere, all we have to spend our lives doing is making babies and dying, right? In fact, we only 'have' to do one of those things when it gets right down to it.
I will also agree that I see more educated Christians than otherwise, but around where I live there are a few VERY smart young people who have excelled in areas - not all of them are Christians of course.
But getting back to having a purpose... Having a purpose gives us a goal to strive for. For some of us it is an intellectual goal, others have a social goal, and so on. It's more indepth than that, but you get what I mean.
Atheists automatically lose.
Atheists believe in nothing after life, you just die and that's the end.
Christians believe in eternal life, and if they are right, go to heaven. If there is no God, they lost NOTHING by living a Christian lifestyle, a lifestyle that teaches you to love one another.
So again I say, atheists already damn themselves immediately.
| Srs2388 wrote: |
| well, like soulfire said, around science there wont be as many because science seems to want to prove the bible wrong... |
I have to disagree with that (sorry!) It was while I was studying science that I became convinced that there mustbe a God. ANd many Christians, both friends of mine, and leading theologians, have had the same experience.
Christians are, indeed, at least as educated as the general population. Some studies suggest they are more educated on average; and Christians are truly represented in every educational discipline!HA!! i love a post like this. Just brings out the anarchy. | Sappho wrote: |
| Soulfire wrote: | | People like scientists who take everything face value, and don't go in depth. |
U mean ppl that rather trust logic than something that was made up out of thin air. Anyway go ur way and let the others choose their own. |
Just noticed your comment. It was hardly thin air that made up religion, Jesus was the first Christian preacher. There are records of his existance and crucifixion.I assume the TS especially meant quite radical people, not the ones that believe because their parents do, because everyone does, because they are bored on sunday, or w/e. The ones that people get annoyed with.
Science doesn't try to prove the Bible wrong - people use/abuse (your pick) science to prove the Bible wrong.
As other people said it matters what place you look at, then you could say whatever you want to say. But there is alot of christians in the world and some are dumb while others are smart. But even the dumb ones are sometimes smart, you get my point. And also christians aren't the only smart people there is alot of smart people in the world from all over the world. So we are just a bunch of smarties.
LOL...
Enjoy.. *smarty*
I find this very offensive.
I am a christian and one of the smartest people out of my friends and classmates.
When I was 13 my IQ was 131, and I have become more intelligent since then, obviously.
I think the people you know are just not intelligent, and it has nothing to do with them being christians.
I think this is flirting with the "labelling all Christians" and "Stereotyping" line. This is like saying all muslims are terrorists.
samples are taken from your school only, how could you jump to the descision "Christians are not weel educated"?. Like all the replies before, I dissagree to the above conclusion.
Of course, to the point of a religious/ belief, education level would have a little effect on the spiritual life itself. Whatever he is highly educated, or nothing educated on him at all. He would have feelings, he would have a sense of emptyness. Christianity is not a way out to under-educated or un-educated, but it's supposed to be a way out of resolving spiritual needs of human. So, the hypothesis on the above findings is not applicable......... I think the person who posted this is just as out of line as the people who post against muslims , jewish people, atheists, and everyone else.
Who are you to attack the ways people to choose to make sense of the universe for themselves?
My friend, you prove your own lack of intelligence with a post like this.
| sycophant wrote: |
I find this very offensive.
I am a christian and one of the smartest people out of my friends and classmates.
When I was 13 my IQ was 131, and I have become more intelligent since then, obviously.
I think the people you know are just not intelligent, and it has nothing to do with them being christians. |
as much as I hate to point this out, your IQ doesn't change from the point you were born. IQ tests rate your minds natural ability to learn, acquired knowledge is pretty much irrelevant. different tests are given to different age groups to represent the types of things a person should be able to learn at this point in his or her life. So no matter how much more you've learned since you were 13, your IQ is still the same as it was then. it might fluctuate a bit from test to test, but it won't change dramatically unless you either did really poorly on the test you did take(got too nervous/etc.) or you cheated. I doubt either to be the case.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| I think this is flirting with the "labelling all Christians" and "Stereotyping" line. |
Flirting? this is so beyond flirting. bigotry was definitely in bed with his thread.
| Srs2388 wrote: |
| well, like soulfire said, around science there wont be as many because science seems to want to prove the bible wrong... |
Actually it's more that some christians try to use the bible to prove science wrong(not the other way around). The bible and science do not oppose eachother, unless the person reading it decides that it does. it's a very personal choice.I assume you consider "Christians using the Bible to prove science wrong" people that do not shush when they are told "Genesis is a fable because science says..."
| forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
Umm, I'm Christian...
I think that there are simply less Christians in the world than Atheists, so it would follow suit that there are less educated Christians than educated Atheists.
About the load of bull crap thing, first of all, you made a typo. Secondly, assuming you're a Neo-Darwinist, you really shouldn't be talking. I've always found it amazing that you people can believe that life, with all its intricate parts could just fall together randomly. Then you consider that a more plausible explanation then someone putting it together. | Quote: |
People choose religion for reasons that have nothing to do with scholastics, and scholastics have no impact on whether or not they commit to those religions. |
Au contrare. My beleif in Christianity is based primarily uppon observable aspects of nature.
I disagree. I try not to group people by their views or ideologies, but it would not suprise me if some highly religious people were less intelligent than those that are less religious. People who are not strongly religious are more open to scientific fact, rather than their beliefs. Also, people that are radically religious or radically nonreligious are generally ignorant, adding to the problem. I haven't read the replies, just posting from the OT, but I do consider myself educated but would never want to associate myself with christians. I believe in christianity, and follow most of the true christian beliefs, but there's so much bullshit being spread around by 'christians' in the name of 'christianity' that it makes me sick.
So I basically feel that if one could be a christian without having to associate themselves with the common group of 'christians', you'd end up seeing a lot more people coming out with it.
But for example, if I were to go to a school known for having undereducated students, regardless of how intelligent I actually was, from the outside anybody could just assume I was stupid also cause 'everybody' there is.
Studying at the University of Sydney does not make all of your educated guesses correct, as you may notice that most Christians live in at least 2nd world countries. This sort of implies that Christians are educated. I have a bias in this especially because I am a Catholic, and I have a Catholic education, but I cannot say for sure that all Christians are educated. And besides, who else is more educated and what is your proof.
_____________________________________________________________
My first internet game
My Website | Jaiye wrote: |
I haven't read the replies, just posting from the OT, but I do consider myself educated but would never want to associate myself with christians. I believe in christianity, and follow most of the true christian beliefs, but there's so much bullshit being spread around by 'christians' in the name of 'christianity' that it makes me sick.
So I basically feel that if one could be a christian without having to associate themselves with the common group of 'christians', you'd end up seeing a lot more people coming out with it.
But for example, if I were to go to a school known for having undereducated students, regardless of how intelligent I actually was, from the outside anybody could just assume I was stupid also cause 'everybody' there is. |
This is so true that it is unbelievable. Most people that have not reached self-actualization (Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs) assume that if you are part of a group, then you are like certain known members of that group. We must all take everything into perspective to have a fair mindset.
_____________________________________________________________
My first internet game
My Website
Religion and education are completely distinct from each other, just like politics, religion, science and philosophy are all distinct but inter related. Don't try and confuse the issue.
| forgeteden wrote: |
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
You know, generalising is almost a sin. Just cause a person is Christian doesn't mean they are uneducated or less educated. Most probably just cause the majority of people around you are Christian, the small percentage of them who may not be that highly educated seem like a very large number to you. | psycosquirrel wrote: |
I disagree. I try not to group people by their views or ideologies, but it would not suprise me if some highly religious people were less intelligent than those that are less religious. People who are not strongly religious are more open to scientific fact, rather than their beliefs. Also, people that are radically religious or radically nonreligious are generally ignorant, adding to the problem. |
Then, by your line of thinking, Isaac Newton must've been less intelligent then say, Madonna. He was a very strong Christian, and designed his theories based on the assumption that the universe was designed with a plan in mind.
On the other hand, I agree to a certain point. If a scientist finds a flaw with one of their hypothesizes, they should reexamine it, perhaps even throw it out and start over. This is what makes the scientific process work.
That's why I can't accept evolution as a plausible explanation for life. Too many theories are accepted too fast, and the flaws merely looked over or covered up.Science hasn't been able to prove the bible wrong for 2000 years, and really longer than that.
Actually, science has used its own reason to prove the bible wrong in its own mind. Think about the second story of creation, how the rivers rose out of the ground. Yeah, like that can happen through physics. There are also points that have been connected with science, such as the timeframe of the story of creation. The book The Science of God by Gerald L. Schroeder shows this relevance through the use of an exponential curve and the Big Bang Theory. The only reason that ideas are proved wrong is the influence of opinion. If you are Christian, you know that the dogma of the Chritian Church is that the Bible is not factual truth at all times, but "religious truth". Otherwise, you might think that the Bible is all historical truth, so you may think that you can prove the Bible wrong by physical means.
_____________________________________________________________
My Website Then why is it that Catholic Schools get better grades then public?
I really think this all depends on the culture of christianity one is in. An example of this would be Huderites, their education is much more strict and confined whereas one that is in more of a "not-so-strict" christian culture are considered more educated.
I hope that made sense.
pfrllc - If God created our world, then God created our laws of science - therefore God can make rivers however He feels like creating them. The bible has not been proven wrong, and not all Christians believe that less than 100% of the bible is factual. The basis for this belief is the belief that God is not a liar, therefore we must trust that the bible IS His Word and must be the truth. This what I believe, and out of the things God has spoken to me about "Your beliefs are wrong in regards to the bible" is NOT one of them.
There are also things in the bible spoken of (when God speaks to Job for a lot of them) which were unexplainable by science until even just recent times - for example:
| Quote: |
Job 38: [16] "Have you entered into the springs of the sea,
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
|
Guess what scientists have discovered in recent times? Springs that spout water out from the deepest parts of the oceans. This is not something that the original writer would have just thrown in for the fun of it - would they not have just left it at "the recesses of the deep?"
Take a look at the entirety of the book of Job and there is a lot of science in that - and at least two references to land and sea dinosaurs. | pfrllc wrote: |
| Actually, science has used its own reason to prove the bible wrong in its own mind. Think about the second story of creation, how the rivers rose out of the ground. Yeah, like that can happen through physics. There are also points that have been connected with science, such as the timeframe of the story of creation. The book The Science of God by Gerald L. Schroeder shows this relevance through the use of an exponential curve and the Big Bang Theory. The only reason that ideas are proved wrong is the influence of opinion. If you are Christian, you know that the dogma of the Chritian Church is that the Bible is not factual truth at all times, but "religious truth". Otherwise, you might think that the Bible is all historical truth, so you may think that you can prove the Bible wrong by physical means. |
The Bible has not been proven wrong. The Bible has truly stood the test of time, as it hasn't been proved wrong by science in 2000+ years. Read the post above me about the springs, I don't want to be redundant, but that is a good explaination.
And God can do whatever He pleases.What do you mean, are Christians educated? I do not understand how one can make such generalities. Nevertheless, as an answer to your question I would say that the majority of the world's people receiving a full modern education live in Europe or North America (I am referring not only to basic education but to tertiary education). Coincidentally, the majority of the people living in these areas formally belong to various Christian denominations.
| David_Pardy wrote: |
| To be perfectly honest though, there are probably more Atheists who feel they have no purpose (ie. Universally insignificant) |
I don't think atheists believe they are universally insignificant. Actually, I believe in God and I think our actions are universally insignificant... what we do on Earth has very very very very little to no effect on the rest of the universe. But then again, I know I am significant to myself and the people close to me.
| Soulfire wrote: |
Atheists automatically lose.
Atheists believe in nothing after life, you just die and that's the end.
Christians believe in eternal life, and if they are right, go to heaven. If there is no God, they lost NOTHING by living a Christian lifestyle, a lifestyle that teaches you to love one another.
So again I say, atheists already damn themselves immediately. |
So you are saying Christians (mine you, you generalized... I am only following your generalization) are pompous enough to believe that they are already blessed, as opposed to atheists who are already damned? Does believing in God automatically take you to heaven... irrespective of your actions?
I'd much rather believe in karma... so that I know that my actions in this life determine whether I get to "heaven" or not.
| Soulfire wrote: |
| Jesus was the first Christian preacher. There are records of his existance and crucifixion. |
But there are also no records that God exists or that He created the universe (in 6 days)
Also, well, the universe is proven to be at least 12 million years old, and the Earth somewhere around 4-4.5 million. If God created everything in 6 days, then those days must have been longer.
| Quote: |
| His Word and must be the truth. This what I believe, and out of the things God has spoken to me about "Your beliefs are wrong in regards to the bible" is NOT one of them. |
I have not read the Bible completely, but from what I know of it, the Bible is the word of god as perceieved by men. Even if it is the true word of God, we believe that God has strange reason for everything he does. Maybe he said something, and we perceieved something else, becasue God is probably not so easy to understand. | pfrllc wrote: |
| Actually, science has used its own reason to prove the bible wrong in its own mind. Think about the second story of creation, how the rivers rose out of the ground. Yeah, like that can happen through physics. |
I'm sure physics has a hand in it, but I'm not sure why its all that relevant. underground water supplies are not even remotely uncommon, and springs are the sources to many of the rivers we have today. a well is a way to tap the rivers and underground lakes that are ALL over underneath our landmass. if enough water pressure builds up underground, it springs forth and creates a river. This is neither a difficult nor miraculous process.I don't want to make generality but when you are educated with only one opinion (Church point of view) and when you learn that God created the word, that Darwin's theory is wrong that we do not come from monkeys. Well when you live in a black abyss, you cannot be well-educated.
That's what is wrong in Christian education, a century of science told us that we come from monkeys and there were no "7days to create life" and some Christians especially in USA want us to believe that there is a God, and that is baaad to use condoms. Is it a real education??
The bible and science both agree at t=0 (time zero of the universe), nothing exist's. In the beginning there was nothing. Quantum physics suggests there was radiation immediately at the first instant of expansion, then there was matter. Astronomy continues then the sun and the stars, then the earth. Geology continues then there was water. Evolution then continues - there was life in the sea, there was birds, there was animals, and then there was man.
P.S. stereotypes are nieve, and indifferent
| Tasukii wrote: |
I don't want to make generality but when you are educated with only one opinion (Church point of view) and when you learn that God created the word, that Darwin's theory is wrong that we do not come from monkeys. Well when you live in a black abyss, you cannot be well-educated.
That's what is wrong in Christian education, a century of science told us that we come from monkeys and there were no "7days to create life" and some Christians especially in USA want us to believe that there is a God, and that is baaad to use condoms. Is it a real education?? |
A century of "science" that hasn't been able to admit it's own mistakes. Evolution works, to some degree, i.e. developing different breeds of the same species. A creature that develops a genetic alteration that makes it more likely to survive, will be more likely to produce offspring than others of it's species. When Darwin first discovered this effect, we had no clue about DNA or how genetic traits were passed to other generations. So he assumed that gradually these changes could turn a species into something different entirely. We know now that there is only so much change that can happen within one species, i.e. a mommy penguin and a daddy penguin will always have a baby penguin, because both parents have penguin genes.
As for Christianity trying to disprove science, or vice-versa, I see that as a load of bull-honkey. Any Christian who thinks it's their duty to "disprove science" is wasting his time and making us look bad. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the Earth shows his handiwork." The natural order of Physics and the complexity of nature were put there to show us God's majesty and power. Therefore, study of nature, (i.e. Science) is a study of God. The conclusions that scientists jump to (not being demeaning, the only way for people to make conclusions from scientific inquiry is to jump to them) will never be 100% true, neither will the conclusions of theologians, or philosophers. The danger therefore lies in enshrining a theory to the point that it is beyond question.
Take for instance the Big Bang theory. Even though it's creator, Stephan Hawking, has decided that it is inadequate to explain the origins of the universe, it is still taught in schools, planetariums and science centers, because it's generally accepted. We're in an age where the scientific process is abandoned, in order to facilitate whatever is socially acceptable.Actually, it was the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître who first proposed that the universe began with the "explosion of a primeval atom", not Steven Hawking.
Broad sweeping generalizations will always bring about debate
At the Christian congregation where I worship we have 2 physicist, one with a PH'd. We have a chemist too. Until last year we had a biologist, psycologist and Zoologist. The number of people with 4 year degree's in something outnumber the ones without about 2:1 ratio. But we also have a couple of young people who have IQ's in the 80 range. I don't know my IQ. I think knowing it would add to the confusion of tying my shoes.
Education in america has alot more to do with money and circumstances rather than actual IQ.
IQ doesn't mean smart either. Most of my family are athiest or agnostic at best. My sister cannot be left alone with power tools or computers. Brillant and Retarded all in one shot.
Peace,
Atomic Look, I wasn't saying that the Bible was proven wrong, but it has been considered wrong in the certain mindframe that people have. A person may consider something wrong, but that does not neccessarily mean that it absolutely is wrong. A person's willpower is the ultimate determining factor in the realm of disproving things. One may think that something has been proven wrong, but another may not. Some people think that just because the "Star Wars" project was canceled, the whole idea of using lasers to shoot down nuclear warheads is disproven, but as I have said in another topic, the U.S. still has a project that can shoot a nuke down using lasers, but not from outer space.
Replying to another post, Tasukii, the book I previously mentioned has a whole section devoted to explaining how the 7 days of creation put upon an exponential curve can add up to the exact amount of time in between the Big Bang and the evolution of humans. We may not have been shaped out of dust, but as we all know, hyperboles are commonly and easily used. Again the idea of "religious truth" comes into play because these ideas may be taken literally, but not all of them are literal, they may be literary elements to be understood with an abstract mind.
I also agree with atomictoyz that IQ does not represent being smart, it just shows a level of common sense. One may have an IQ of 174, but they may not know what two Japanese towns were hit by atomic bombs.
I hope all of this debating doesn't make me some kind of heretical Catholic, but I do believe that nothing makes sense without a scientific explanation, and everything does or will have a scientific explanation within the existence of the Earth.
| tidruG wrote: |
Also, well, the universe is proven to be at least 12 million years old, and the Earth somewhere around 4-4.5 million. If God created everything in 6 days, then those days must have been longer.
|
Dr. Russel Humphreys proposed a theory (I think in '96) that may answer this problem. He published a book called Starlight and Time outlining the theory.
Also, there was an eight year project called RATE (Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth) examined the viability of radiosotope dating. Their results have been summarized in the book Thousands... Not Billions.
--RFGeology measures earth at 4.5billion, I've already pm'd a few people to get that right coz it's not millions. Astronomy gives the universe at 13.5 billion years old. Microbiology puts ancient bacteria at 2-3billion years ago. The 1:1000 theory suggests 10000 yrs old. Another example is sedimentation. Geology says sedimatation layers at the ice caps and grand canyon etc at millions of years. Another layer-forming pattern is observed in rapid lateral flow, as in the case of floods. The grand canyon could have been eroded by a global flood, and the layers formed from the rapid lateral flow in the flood era. Also, Given Adam and Eve's age, and given Dinosaurs atmospheric environment, and microbial atmospheric evolution, the atmostphere could have been much much more [H2O] saturated, as much as 20% higher, which could have reduced microwave radiation on earth's surface, allowing human's to survive much longer, and animals to develop much more. At the flood, the atmospheric moisture collapsed as the earth cooled, and the magnetic field flipped, and the water condensed in mass global rain. The flood wiped out the dinosaurs, contaminated the 14C content in biological remains affecting Carbon Dating, and eroded the Yatacama (meteorite impact) crater, eroded the Grand Canyon, allowed mass ice formation at the poles due to rapid freezing etc. Scientific theory no.3. this is just 1 theory to battle evolution currently in practice by experts, but I learned this quite a few years ago so I've lost references.
So wait, how come over 50% of our government including most of the judicial system are all Christians? Do you really think that going up to three of the smartest people at your school and asking them if they are Christian and bassing your entire observation off that actually works? 
. Stereotypes are nieve and indifferent.
Well, I think I've said my peice. This topic just keeps going around in circles.
Except... I can't just let you bring up Theistic Evolution without saying that it makes no sense whatsoever, and debotches both theories.
Consider this :
To believe Theistic Evolution, you have to believe:
1) That God was incapable of explaining how He created the universe in terms Ancient humanity could understand.
2) That ancient Humanity was too stupid to understand the basic gist of Evolution--- a theory that five-year-old children today learn from a Muppet.
3) That God would painstakingly present His word to humanity as simply, bluntly and clearly as possible ("Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, honor thy father and mother")--- but when it came to the opening book of the Bible He resorted to beatnik poetry and performance art.
4) That God doesn't know the definition of the word "day."
5) That God willingly let a false record of how He made the universe stand for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of human history because He couldn't bother to edit a misprint.
6) That, in spite of TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of prophets, priests, holy men and miracles, God had to rely on an ATHEIST to come in and correct His screw-up in the first book of his own Bible.
7) That you can throw out everything the Bible had to say not only about how God made the universe, but how sin and Death first entered it--- the very core point of the whole Bible--- yet still claim to believe anything else the Bible has to say with any conviction after you've gutted it.
(from http://rhjunior.livejournal.com/ ) 1) God used his 1st story in Genesis to show how he rested on the 7th day. This is how important the sabbath/sunday is. God reveals only the most important and necessary facts, like telling us for the first time that we need to have some time to reflect and regenerate.
2) How do you explain mutation to a 5 year old. Evolution or otherwise is not as important as the fact that we are told of our existence and given our role.
3)In relation to the sabbath day (1st story) and to the role of humanity, (sexuality and family in 2nd story), the story is simple.
4) God emphasises the importance of day especially when he rested on the sabbath, and he also called it good.
5) That's the stories that were handed down. why God didn't tell it more accurate I don't know.
6) If the atheist is Moses, he truly ended up believing in god.
7) If you've read my quote above you'll see we don't have to scrap anything.
Yes there are many christians that are educated, they just dont talk about it.
Neither that there christians or higher educated.
In sweden we dont talk a lot about it util You get to know people better.
Muslims talk about it and bring up the subject as they explain why they dont
drink or eat pork. Some muslims Ive met dont eat pork but they drink.
Im a christian and it only changes my views on life it doesn't automatically make me an Einstein.
This is a very touchy subject but here are some points everyone should remember.
1.Your intelligence is based on the environment you grew up in not who or what you believe in.
2.This topic was started to discuss the topic of "Christians are educated" not to challenge a religion.
But by reading this topic it has helped my faith.
| forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
of course not!!!!
a lot of merchant is christian!!!I would say this went off-topic, if the *real* topic were not simply doing some more bashing.
I THINK THIS POST JUST SHOWS HOW INTELLIGENT CHRISTIANS AND NON CHRISTIANS CAN BE.
Whatever... I think everyone's said thier piece anyhow and we need a mod to come and lock this thread for us. I personally don't have anything against Neo-Darwinists, 'cept that thier wrong, and there's a lot of people, including Christians, in this world that have thier facts messed up. God loves them anyway, so should we.
I would personally like to close this thread, it's so stereotypical, nieve, and there's plenty more religious/scientific debates out there.
| Sappho wrote: |
U mean ppl that rather trust logic |
prove logic existslogic is easy to prove, just use theorems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Here's false logic for you
Faith is unreasonable and unintelligent
Christian's are faithful
Therefore Christians are unreasonable and unintelligent.
This is what this article suggests. Some are, some aren´t. Just like everyone else. Just because someone is religious doesn´t have a real substance in disbelieving in the evolution theory. Many religions have the same basic principles, but very different ideas of conduct unfortunately. If people were to realize the basic, and not believe in certain scripts, books etc, but realize the values of their religions, not only would that bring an end to religios wars, but also progess society. To reject religion is just as wrong as accepting it without looking into the core values of what a god would offer to people. And people claiming that their good wishes to bring negatice connotations to others is like putting oneself ovwe god-which is wrong.
Exactly what I believe,
Religion and Science and Intelligence are all independant but inter-related in the total unified theory.
| Starflier wrote: |
Well, I think I've said my peice. This topic just keeps going around in circles.
Except... I can't just let you bring up Theistic Evolution without saying that it makes no sense whatsoever, and debotches both theories.
Consider this :
To believe Theistic Evolution, you have to believe:
1) That God was incapable of explaining how He created the universe in terms Ancient humanity could understand.
2) That ancient Humanity was too stupid to understand the basic gist of Evolution--- a theory that five-year-old children today learn from a Muppet.
3) That God would painstakingly present His word to humanity as simply, bluntly and clearly as possible ("Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, honor thy father and mother")--- but when it came to the opening book of the Bible He resorted to beatnik poetry and performance art.
4) That God doesn't know the definition of the word "day."
5) That God willingly let a false record of how He made the universe stand for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of human history because He couldn't bother to edit a misprint.
6) That, in spite of TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of prophets, priests, holy men and miracles, God had to rely on an ATHEIST to come in and correct His screw-up in the first book of his own Bible.
7) That you can throw out everything the Bible had to say not only about how God made the universe, but how sin and Death first entered it--- the very core point of the whole Bible--- yet still claim to believe anything else the Bible has to say with any conviction after you've gutted it.
(from http://rhjunior.livejournal.com/ ) |
One problem with this is that you have not read the book I recommended earlier, as it describes that time is on an exponential curve. A day 100 years in the future could be 23 hours 0 minutes and 25 seconds long. Time is not a constant as most people think, but it is a very changed variable that we try to use as a constant to keep our tasks aligned. This theory does not contradict Genesis, nor does it contradict Charles Darwin with his theory of evolution. It actually combines these viewpoints with the help of a new theory. God did not rely on an atheist to correct his "screw-up", but he let Darwin give the other part of the information for us imperfect humans to try to bring this together with logic to understand his original meaning of the Word of God. People in present day haven't fully gotten to using logic, but Gerald Schroeder finally did, and I believe that this is a completely legitimate explanation for this. | Lennon wrote: |
logic is easy to prove, just use theorems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Here's false logic for you
Faith is unreasonable and unintelligent
Christian's are faithful
Therefore Christians are unreasonable and unintelligent.
This is what this article suggests. |
Please notice that Wikipedia is an unreliable resource, as it can be modified from the web interface. Many people decide to change and add stuff and make it unreliable though it was originally intended to just act as an encyclopedia with automatic comment insertion. | forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
I whole heartedly agree.... well if I had a heart that is... I would agree then.In the dark ages it was the religious communities that kept running schools and research, philosophy and inventions, both christian in Irish monasteries (Celtic missionaries) and muslim (ottoman empire).
Once again, the arguments here are dead. Saying Christians aren't educated is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. Notice that with Christianity comes the (mostly) stable environments of Europe and North America, whereas Islam bring instability and turmoil to the middle east.
Just to be a counterexample, I have a 3.95 GPA in all honors classes at my high school and I am Christian. Education has nothing to do with whether you are Christian or not.
You, being an atheist (or whatever you are), are making yourself seem less intelligent by posting things like this.
| Soulfire wrote: |
Once again, the arguments here are dead. Saying Christians aren't educated is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. Notice that with Christianity comes the (mostly) stable environments of Europe and North America, whereas Islam bring instability and turmoil to the middle east.
Just to be a counterexample, I have a 3.95 GPA in all honors classes at my high school and I am Christian. Education has nothing to do with whether you are Christian or not.
You, being an atheist (or whatever you are), are making yourself seem less intelligent by posting things like this. |
Umm... your logic is flawed. There is no possible way anyone could become less intelligent by posting something. Infact quite the opposite considering the fact that elaborating on ideas that one has in a public fashion through use of a computer has been proven to reinforce neural pathways in the brain. We become more intelligent as we interact.
I believe what you meant to say was that posting something like this makes someone APPEAR less intelligent. I could understand that. BTW getting good grades in high school has nothing to do with intelligence. Look at Einstein.
FACE 
To say faith is unreasonable and unintelligent is not very intelligent. Many Christian professionals (by professional I mean working within a Church or ministry) have attended universities and received degrees in Divinity and/or Theology. Not to mention the Christians in the secular workplace with non-religious college degrees. I'll bet everyone knows a few and for the most part, I'll bet they're not unintelligent people..
Also, does trhis mean churches are filled with unintellgent (not to mention unreasonable) people? Have you read the Bible and notice how much does make sense? Even if the Bible isn't read as a religious document, it makes a very good guide to living - a common sense primer, if you will, that is filled with knowledge and wisdom that hold true even today. Consider the Book of Proverbs alone. In my opinion, if people applied that wisdom to their own lives, they'd find themselves making more sound decisions.
I wouldn't expect anyone who hasn't had faith in religion to wholly (no pun intended) understand a religion based on faith. Not saying that person doesn't understand the religion. They just won't see the big picture. You can see quite a bit from the outside but inside is a different perspective.
I definitely agree.
For myself, to speak that Christiany is unintelligent speaks much of the speaker's wisdom. Try reading the bible first with no bias judgments, and tell me it's foolishness. Go read the Book of Job and be astonished and mesmerized of how much such an ancient book dwarfs present literary works in terms of wisdom and intellect. Give it a week of honest-to-goodness reading and tell me after that it's foolishness.
You should not say that a belief system is a load of shit, myself I personaly believe in evolution and scince (The way in which the evidance points is most likely to be true). You have got to keep your mind open, to other believes they may not be the same as yours but you have still got to respect them no matter, it's their choice to make not yours. Though I tend to find that Christians tend to be stubborn and don't tend to listen to reason.
| Jack_Hammer wrote: |
| You should not say that a belief system is a load of ****, myself I personaly believe in evolution and scince (The way in which the evidance points is most likely to be true). You have got to keep your mind open, to other believes they may not be the same as yours but you have still got to respect them no matter, it's their choice to make not yours. Though I tend to find that Christians tend to be stubborn and don't tend to listen to reason. |
I whole heartedly agree, although I think of myself as kind of a anti christian missionary. I am very proactive in my wish to make people understand that what they think doesn't make AS MUCH sense as what I think. However I did use the limiter "AS MUCH" because we all know that nothing can be proven in any true sense so we all take "leaps of faith" in some form or another it just depends on degree.
This, to me, is no excuse to believe something that is what many would call factually false. False in the sense that our observable reality strongly suggests that many of the Bible's stories never happened.
This was not known before science had proven certain things about the realities of the world.
The church would not be stopped however, they simply started changing whatever it was that was in conflict with what science said to suit their interests. i.e. : the earth is round, the earth is older than 5000 yrs, the earth is not the center of the universe.... just afew examples.
And yet the weak still pray to their false God. Because they NEED to, because they are too scared to face a reality that doesn't have their God that they grew up with.
To me that is the essence of weakness.
Even if the Bible has some good messages in it that doesn't make it factually true. I just live by my sense of empathy for people and I seem to do fine. I am generally thoughtful and kind to whomever I meet. I don't not need some document written by men , who were less educated than myself, trying to figure out a way to calm the masses of poor and lull them into a false sense of security; so they could be guided as sheep for the men in powers causes.
THINK FOR YOURSELF
Last edited by SkullPizza on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total | forgeteden wrote: |
Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
I'm from Finland, and about 98% of Finnish do appertain Evangelical Lutheran Church. Finland is well known as a country of high education, so I think that at least in this country your allegations are totaly wrong.Christians can be intelligent, yet thier intelligence has bounds, I broke my bounds when I became well nothing . They are bounded by their ignorance, they refuse to accept that thier parents were wrong and that the idea of god is non existant. Thay are naive, and ignorant, yet you can not call them stupid(unless you really don't care). | Devil wrote: |
i think the most illitrate religion is Islam ,
now i dont mean to bad when i say this , but i have seen a majority of muslims , they dont care for education , they marry thier daughters at the age of 14 , and thier sons at the age of 18 ,
my freind who happened to be a muslim ,but did not study , i asked him about this , he said it is said in thier religion that only the knowledge of quran is important to them ,
thats why majority in india many muslims kids dont go to school , but i really hope it should change , and people should be more aware of thier rights,
christains on the other hand beleave ,that where there is a church ,there should be a school too , thats why u will find anywhere there is a church , there will be a school ,
they say if ur not educated then u will not understand the meaning of gods words , and that is the reason , christains are one of the most educated religions on earth , |
How can you say that, the nation of islam kept education alive in the middle ages, who do you think invented algebra, ya big doosh...
| THE11thROCK™ wrote: |
I definitely agree.
For myself, to speak that Christiany is unintelligent speaks much of the speaker's wisdom. Try reading the bible first with no bias judgments, and tell me it's foolishness. Go read the Book of Job and be astonished and mesmerized of how much such an ancient book dwarfs present literary works in terms of wisdom and intellect. Give it a week of honest-to-goodness reading and tell me after that it's foolishness. |
Me being a good little 10 year old protestant, decided that my brain should take a pilgramage, little did I know this journey would ultimately change my life forever. and the book of job was crap he had a perfect life and then god took it all away to prove satan wronga nd job still prayed big whoop!
Last edited by shadedflame on Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:05 am; edited 1 time in totalWell, the book of Job was written by Jews...the old testament of the bible, the work of hebrew mastery was too...not to say that christians are unintelligent, that's a silly generlization, but one really can't make a case for a modern religion's intelligence on the whole based on stories over two thousand years old. The quality of a given text does not necessarily lead to greater literacy amongst practicioners.
As an example one might reference the Catholic Church's monopoly on biblical interpretation in the Middle Ages. This prevented layman to read or gain knowledge individually, but instead required spoonfeeding from a small group of elite.
Also, even though the bible indeed is a good how-to guide for life, it does contain bits of somewhat peculiar law. Things involving slavery, for one, or a personal favorite: If a women who has cheated on her husband gets in between her husband and the interloper and grabs the other man's testicle, she is to be killed. I'm not sure I get that one.
But more importantly, I really imagine that one's choice of religion (or lack thereof) has little to do with education. It has more to do with opportunity. People who live in stable democracies with strong economies are able to spend more time studying.
Educated people can be Christians also, it comes to a matter of faith in something you can not see or (sometimes) can not touch.
I have all the faith in the world that there is air out there (polluted as it may be), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
This is the stupidest claim I have ever seen.
I'm proud to be Muslim and to live in this country = MY and currently working at floor 76 at Kuala Lumpur Petronas Twin Tower. No matter who you are, we respect everybody.
Fath will only blind you if you take it too far.
I am a Christian. But sometime do doubt what i believe in.
i have also thought about the educated people thing, and i recently believed it. But then i remind myselfs that some of the strongest Christians were highly educated and famous people.
A short list i know of are:
C.S. Lewis
JIMMY CARTER
CHRISTOPHER DARDEN
(there are more, but i can't think of them now)
i don't think it really matters though. Christain principles, whether or not they are theologically acurate still bring good and kindness into the world
| Soulfire wrote: |
Once again, the arguments here are dead. Saying Christians aren't educated is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. Notice that with Christianity comes the (mostly) stable environments of Europe and North America, whereas Islam bring instability and turmoil to the middle east.
|
HA! Europe Stable, I laugh at your stupidity! Europe is in chaos every waking moment always fighting over territory. Have you notice that with christianity, comes greed? EVery christain nation is tryng to take over something, every christain aid program is trying to convert people.
ANd how can you say "Saying Christians aren't educated is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. " It is not...Saying Christains aren't educated is like saying the jews rule the wold. 
I'm a christian, and it may be you are right, it may also be you are wrong.
I'm not going to argue with you but I don't really believe that it's true.
I think in every religion you have good educated people and less educated people.
Your state could maybe be right that there are less christian educated people than others.
I have to say my parents have pretty good educated me and I'm thankfull for it cause it helps me. But what did you study? What is "education" for you? That are some things you have to tell if you want to be consequent.
I believe christianity has nothing to do with education. Maybe other religions do.
No, No, I can't take this anymore.. AAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Somebody fire a sub-tectonic nuclear mole bomb under the continent of europe. I'm there in europe too but I don't care. Quick, speed is of the essence, my dear fellow chaps. But surely a climax worth waiting for.
Ya see, we europeans and we christians and we scientists havent' a clue what we're talking about, right? We're just mad hatters, we've lost the plot, we're insane I TELL YOU.
wE'RE ALL NAZI'S HERE, Like we don't care about anyone else.
Catch my drift? No. 
Ah, we don't drift, even the whole continent of europe doesn't drift, we don't go with the flow.. Nah, on second thoughts we're on the ball and we don't drift off with wishy washy points right, isn't that what intelligence is?
Okay, if Christians are so uneducated, then are atheists more likely to commit crimes. Because they are not religious, they have no discernable source for morals, except the things they make up in their head.
It's sort of like asking that.
Besides, notice that predominately Christian North America and Europe are the most stable places in the world?
Where I am from Christians make up around 80% of my school's failing population. I personally think religeon is a matter of keeping a value system implanted into the public so the legal system doesnt seem so strict. If 'people' as a whole are already goody-two-shoes, then it doesnt seem like the court system is so up tight.... i dont agree with christians, or the american government... they make everything worse for everyone else... 'blue sunday', 'illegal marijuana'...
Uhm... I come from Ireland, and nearly everyone here is Chrisitian in one form or another, and everyone has up to a second level degree, third level is optional, but many many people have some degree at third level, we are also microchip capitial, next to the east.
Everyone who agrees with the first post, tell me what is YOUR religion?
None of you bothered to check statisics right?
There are more educated Christians than atheists
There are many more educated religious people than atheists
However...
Atheists make up only 5 percent of the worlds population.
Aka 1 in 20 peeps is an atheist (over 1 in 3 Christians).and, if in university (or other) classes for every 39 people there are 2 atheists it means that on average atheists are more educated. (anyone with less than 2 in 39?)
It's a pointless argument though, Christianity is far more pervasive than athiesm because Atheism is almost always an individuals chosen religion while Christianity is almost always inherited (over 80% of Christians have Christian parents, Atheists 20% (although this is because it is faster growing)).
Far more Atheists are literate than Christians and (this shocked me) almost all Atheists who own cellphones can send an SMS while less than 50% of Christians owning cellphones can.
This of course does not apply to any of you as, seeing as you are on a forum, you are all to a good degree educated, literate, possibly speak 2 or 3+ languages and know how SMSing is done.
Because of the likelihood that religion will be inherited, and that less intelligent people blindly follow precedent there is a higher average of unintelligent Christians (at 1+ in 3 the largest religous denomination). This is in a large part due to the blind following aspect rather than any stupidity ingrained in Christianity.
Ps. Science most does definitely does not take things at face value. By definition scientist delve past face value into the way things work.
Pps. The bible was written by men, and compiled by emperor Constantine in +- 300ad, it leaves out several books telling us many interesting things about Mary Magladyn and Jesus being a vegetarian but was most definitely not written by God or Jesus (though some of the unentered books were)
Ppps. As to science defrauding Christianity, no it hasn't completely done so but it puts the existence of God down to at least a 1 in 10^(27) chance.( any exceptions such as the flooding of the Grand Canyon increase that 10^(27), especially seeing as every canyon on earth would have had to have undergone the same flooding)
| dac_nip wrote: |
| forgeteden wrote: | Um. I've noticed lately (since studying at the university of sydney) that the majority of educated people are not christian, and the lower end of the scale in respect to education, you find the christians.
Now, please, christians, dont in any way think I am trying to tell you, that your religion is aload of bull crap (which is my personal belief).
I'm just finding it hard to reconcile the whole thing.
Do you people agree?
The more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian? |
buddy, before you have the guts to post items like this, try to support your claims with statistics. Your opinion is very subjective and if we talk of christian particulars who are very educated, we would not be able to enumerate them. Also, "the more educated people are, the less likely it is they are christian" whoah, that's discrimination. What exactly are you trying to say with this? |
I'm trying to say exactly what I said. The more educated peopl become, the less likely it is they are christian. Reasons like the fact that to believe in christianity there are huge things you have to ignore, like the existance of dinosoars, the fact you cant fit 2 of every animal on any boat man could ever make especially one, that one guy coudl make out of wood. Stuff like that. To be able to reconcile those things, a certain level of ignorance or unintelligence is required.
But before i get in trouble by the moderators who have nothing better to do than shut conversations down. I dont have any issues with christian