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Yahoo SERP Position





blackbart
i've got a commercial site that ranks well with MSN and Google. In fact i hust about own MSN's first page for my targeted keywords. I am number one in several searchs on both Google and MSN.
Recently I re-optimized my page for additional keywords. MSN has already indexed me with these new keywords and I amonce againonteh first page for them. This is a purely white hat site no tricks, no spam, good content.
I have 220 links indexed in MSN I have 18 in Yahoo and only eight in Google. When entering the search terms in Yahoo I only show up for one or two terms on the first page. All of my traffic come from MSN and google What's up with Yahoo? Why is this such a tough nut to crack? Has anyone else had difficulties improving their psotion in Yahoo?
Has anyone greatly improved their postion? If you have how did you do it?
Bondings
Getting listed in the Yahoo directory will certainly help your site a lot in their search listings. It just costs 300$. Wink
blackbart
This is an interesting answer. I have never paid for software. I am not abot to pay for a listing from the # 2 search engine. I've got Google and MSN sewn up for free. I have recently submitted my rss feed to yahoo's directory and am interested in the differences, if any. It just seems to me that paying for a listing is anathematic to the spirit of search engines and what the public expects when they search.

I am on page one (of Yahoo) for some obscure search terms; just seems there is a very elitist approach to positioning with Yahoo. it's an interesting phenomenon. When partaking in various SEO forums and reading online articles about SEO there is so much written on Google and MSN, very little information on ranking well in Yahoo. Most SEO keyword tools use Overture's keyword lists for optimization and these lists are pretty right on. Isn't Overture a Yahoo related SE?

So is the only approach to getting indexed more often than once ever coupla days paying? I've seen other sites with little on-page optimization that get crawled two or three times a day. I've tried submitting my site through Alexa and watched my thumbnail appear and then disappear in their search resluts.

It took almost a month for my new site information show up in Yahoo when I updated it. Does Yahoo look for inbound links of a particular type or does it weigh certain sites heavier? If that's the case does any one know what the key is? It just seems while we all worry about and discuss google that Yahoo is a much tougher nut would love to get on their first page almost as a challenge rather for the traffic it would generate. Just reluctant to pay extortion money.

Where is the research into yahoo's algo? Is seems there is just not too much out there. and Yahoo seems to have alot more lesser SE's attached to it. I had hoped there would be more information on this.

$300??? I've got a listing just no position. So will the 'brbe' get me better position?
Bondings
blackbart wrote:
Isn't Overture a Yahoo related SE?

It's the ad system of Yahoo. It used to be called GoTo and was then rebranded to Overture. The keyword suggestion tool is for advertisers if I'm not mistaken to see which terms to bid on.

Yahoo is a bit a different search engine than both Google and MSN. Google uses completely automated algorithms. MSN uses a neural network. Yahoo also uses an algorithm like google. However, websites in their directory play a big role in the rankings as they are seen as quality websites. Also, a lot of the most competitive search results are hand-picked results. And last but not least Yahoo has very stable results; they rarely change a lot between updates. (msn changes every day)

The 300$ is only worth it if you really need it. If you have an e-commerce website and each visitor is worth $$$ to you and you have that kind of budget, then sure go for it. It's really worth it in that case. You most likely won't get a lot of visitors from the directory listing, but your rankings will get way better.

An other directory to pay attention to is Dmoz. It's completely free, but can be very hard to get listed in, depending on the topic/editor. Some submissions are still waiting for over 3-4 years to be handled. Others are listed in a matter of days or even hours, but don't hope for that. Wink

The thing is, without seeing your website, it is really hard to help you. The only thing that seemed weird to me is the low number of links from Yahoo. Normally both Yahoo and MSN display all the links, while you can easily ignore google for links as they don't display them on purpuse. My advice would thus be to get much more and better links pointing to your website. The 18 links Yahoo reports definately seem to be not enough. But again, without actually seeing your website, it's hard to give advice.

By the way, I might create a few new forums for the different search engines and other seo-webmaster related things. And also keep them alive myself by really trying to post valuable things in those forums.
blackbart
Quote:

By the way, I might create a few new forums for the different search engines and other seo-webmaster related things. And also keep them alive myself by really trying to post valuable things in those forums.

This sounds liek a great idea! SEO is fascinating stuff. A bit of black art, science and a cetain 'us & them' kind of feeling to it. you gotta work with 'em but you try your best to beat 'em at their own game.
looking forward to it.
SoftStag
Bondings wrote:
By the way, I might create a few new forums for the different search engines and other seo-webmaster related things. And also keep them alive myself by really trying to post valuable things in those forums.

Great idea, maybe you should post this in the Suggestions forum for feedback. (I can't beleive I just said that to the Founder! lol)
Dragonfly
I observe that Yahoo search results are not as specific as google and so I don't know how it actually works. So far Yahoo has indexed my site more than Google but still I would say they are not specifically linked to what users are searching.

For example, let's say I write an article on 'Christmas Father' and keep the link to the page at the index or homepage of my site, so that the visitors can see and follow the link for the complete details on Christmas Father. In Yahoo search when people search 'Christmas Father' as the keyword it will display first my index or homepage and does the visitor are confused and they end up only at my index page because many things are kept in the index page and unless they CACHED the page they end up not being able to find the desired result. If they continue to search the main page, the desired page in my site may appear only at 6th or 7th search result page.

However, Google may take time to index this Christmas Father link. Once Google will display in its search results it will display the page where Christmas Father details are being displayed, fully. But its hard to be indexed in the first 3 search result pages of google.

I think, you need not worry as long as the other two major search engines are indexing it will be a matter of time Yahoo will find it too.
lukeropro
I think the reason why Google spiders your website so slowly is because that many people submit their site to it and it takes a longer time to spider it. Just giving comments. Rolling Eyes
ibay
In my opinion both Yahoo and Google have similar criteria for SERP.
The difference in search results comes only because of the size of Google.
If you make search on any popular keyword in Yahoo and Google, you will observe that the results are almost the same for both of them.
Does anyone here agree with that?
phx777
well if you put a lot of keywords in and search a lot using all the keywords, you will get on top in any case becouse other sites dont have the exact combination of keywords... no big deal i find my sites on #1 too when i look for them, that doesent mean other people do Razz
blackbart
Was there a comment or are you just spammng the board with a cut and paste of my post?
Lacerate-
Maybe he was just shooting for that 5th post and didn't know how to reply with his own comment lol ..

but yea yahoo is hard to get to the top of their search engine ... I found one of my pages on like the 10th page of a yahoo search when I can google/msn it and be on the 1st or 2nd page most of the time. I woudn't pay yahoo for advertisement unless I was a bigger business/corporation and had the money just to advertise with.
raver
well i did get a third position for some words in my native tongue, so it isn`t that hard Razz but then the apocalypse fell down on server two, and my site... well.... it rests in heaven Cool
Lacerate-
does anyone have much luck using the google advertisments on their site ... I mean are they really worth what you get outta them?
SoftStag
Lacerate- wrote:
does anyone have much luck using the google advertisments on their site ... I mean are they really worth what you get outta them?

I think you should try this thread:
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-7259.html

It is the "official" AdSense thread.
erlendhg
My program Sudoku Assistenten was listed on yahoo very high up on the list when you searched for "sudoku program", but now it is just taken off the list...

That´s bad Sad Sad
Shake
Any search engine that makes people pay to get a high rank on a search engine is not a search engine - it is an advertising company. Yahoo will never be the #1 search engine if they keep that up. People who use search engines are usually ones looking for undiscovered, or hard to find information on the internet, not ADS. I would give up on trying to deal with Yahoo.
dragonduke
Its not searching for sites - Its searching for payers, people who would pay others to see their site. It disappoints me to see over and over how money runs the world.
Karo
bombadil314 wrote:
This is an interesting answer. I have never paid for software. I am not abot to pay for a listing from the # 2 search engine. I've got Google and MSN sewn up for free. I have recently submitted my rss feed to yahoo's directory and am interested in the differences, if any. It just seems to me that paying for a listing is anathematic to the spirit of search engines and what the public expects when they search.

I am on page one (of Yahoo) for some obscure search terms; just seems there is a very elitist approach to positioning with Yahoo. it's an interesting phenomenon. When partaking in various SEO forums and reading online articles about SEO there is so much written on Google and MSN, very little information on ranking well in Yahoo. Most SEO keyword tools use Overture's keyword lists for optimization and these lists are pretty right on. Isn't Overture a Yahoo related SE?

So is the only approach to getting indexed more often than once ever coupla days paying? I've seen other sites with little on-page optimization that get crawled two or three times a day. I've tried submitting my site through Alexa and watched my thumbnail appear and then disappear in their search resluts.

It took almost a month for my new site information show up in Yahoo when I updated it. Does Yahoo look for inbound links of a particular type or does it weigh certain sites heavier? If that's the case does any one know what the key is? It just seems while we all worry about and discuss google that Yahoo is a much tougher nut would love to get on their first page almost as a challenge rather for the traffic it would generate. Just reluctant to pay extortion money.

Where is the research into yahoo's algo? Is seems there is just not too much out there. and Yahoo seems to have alot more lesser SE's attached to it. I had hoped there would be more information on this.

$300??? I've got a listing just no position. So will the 'brbe' get me better position?


I think I have read exactly the same thing before!!!
Is this a quotation???
What a coincidence you had exactly the same experience and opinions Blackbart had.
hyperviktor
i've got a commercial site that ranks well with MSN and Google.
In fact i hust about own MSN's first page for my targeted keywords.
I am number one in several searchs on both Google and MSN.
Recently I re-optimized my page for additional keywords. Also in FLASH.
MSN has already indexed me with these new keywords and I amonce againonteh first page for them. This is a purely white hat site no tricks, no spam, good content.
I have 220 links indexed in MSN I have 18 in Yahoo and only eight in Google.
When entering the search terms in Yahoo I only show up for one or two terms on the first page. All of my traffic come from MSN and google What's up with Yahoo? Where is Yahoo ? Why is this such a tough nut to crack? Has anyone else had difficulties improving their psotion in Yahoo?
Has anyone greatly improved their postion? If you have how did you do it?
blackbart
I'm startin to feel right famous! Cut and pasted twice in the same thread!
I use whatever stats program is available and I check to see how folks are gettin to me. I then check how I rate using those search phrases. This is when I began to wonder about Yahoo.
At one time yahoo was my registrar. I had to complain on the ICANN site about them not communicating to me when I wanted to change my Host. We had several emails back and forth about this I was, irate to say the least.
Wonder if this has something to do with my site not ranking? Confused
Bondings
blackbart wrote:
I'm startin to feel right famous! Cut and pasted twice in the same thread!
I use whatever stats program is available and I check to see how folks are gettin to me. I then check how I rate using those search phrases. This is when I began to wonder about Yahoo.
At one time yahoo was my registrar. I had to complain on the ICANN site about them not communicating to me when I wanted to change my Host. We had several emails back and forth about this I was, irate to say the least.
Wonder if this has something to do with my site not ranking? Confused

I really don't think that's the reason why your site doesn't work.
schizolo
I just better liked a google.... It has a lowest criterium ...
kcarring
YAHOO, in my opinion is not a tough nut to crack. I have had many top ten results in YAHOO. The contradiction lies in the fact that what works well for Google, does not always help you much at YAHOO. If you have great results in GOOGLE - don't go changing a bunch of on page SEO factors, just to rank at Yahoo. You are far better to work on link building and off-site factors to improve your YAHOO standings. Because it's algorithm is antiquated in comparison to Google - there are contradictions. One benefit, however of YAHOO is that they tend to pick up, and credit your domain, for one way backlinks, much faster than Google. They also hold these links as being very important. Get your keywords in phrases, linking back to your site for Google. Prominence of text is also very important for YAHOO. In many ways the results at YAHOO seem to be based on Altavista.com's original paradigm. Domain names, <title> tags, <meta description>, and the first visible text (top down view) are important to your rankings at Yahoo. Submit your site to SEO friendly directories (and lots of them). Don't be overly repititious with these entries - vary them - otherwise those links, while they will help you at Yahoo and MSN - might hurt you at Google (if you have hundreds, for example that are identical). Remember, what you do for one SE, also effects what other SE's see, and calculate!
kcarring
From purely an SEO point of view, during a "3 minute analysis" (In other words - not enough time was spent, really...)

A few issues are apparent.

#1 Never put keywords in a meta statement that don't actually exist on your page. Literally. If they aren't ACTUALLY on the page, don't list them.

#2 Keep your keyphrases prominent.

#3 Look carefully at the first text on your page. What does it say? Consider using CSS to tone down a <h1> header of your keywords in this prominent position.

#4 Research your terms. If you can't compete for "sudoku" (because your competitors have WAY more backlinks etc.) DON'T place it prominent. The only exception to this is when you have enough on page text to backup secondary phrases (see my post on MULTIPLE phrase targeting).

#5 Use LYNX to view your site as a SE would.

<Meta name="Keywords" content="sudoku, sudoku program, sudoku software, sudoku freeware, create, learn, puzzle, logic">

Too many occurences of "sudoku" + possible occurences of words/phrases that don't exist on page!

<Meta name="Description" content="Free software to create, solve and learn about sudoku.">

Lack of prominence here. Too short. Better option: "Sudoku Program for free to create, solve, and learn more about sudoku software! Download now with no restrictions!"


<Meta name="Pagetopic" content="Games">
<Meta name="Pagetype" content="Software Download">
<Meta name="Audience" content=" All">

Scrap these - Useless and they take up bytes in your Head.


<title>Sudoku Assistenten - Program</title>

Not bad.. however I would personally change this to:

<title>Sudoku Program - Sudoku Assistenten - Freeware</title>



#6 get more text on your homepage, and watch your top down view.

#7 Change the link text from "Home" to "Sudoku Assistenten" Your first link is important. As is your last. Make it your keywords.


MOST IMPORTANT:

Do your homework. Go to Overture and find out exactly what people are using in the way of a phrase to find such a thing. Don't guess! optimize for that, not your guess.
blackbart
^ Interesting post. Very good advice. This si something that needs be done constantly. I think. I've slowly added Different link text for my incoming links I've also started with some of he lower competition woreds then added higher competitive words this works! in Google an MSN.
Still Yahoo is a real pain. Not to terribly heartbreaking as I do have a good deal of exposure in Google and this is where most searches are happining these days. I am dong Ok traffic wise and don't see Yahoo as makig or breaking my site.
Everything in the above post has been doen to my site. I only have about 35 pages so I need to add a few articles i think. BUT
Google lists 20 of my pages in a "site:" search MSN 34 Yahoo??? 8 Two of my pages repeat froma database search and Google has skipped al but the first of each MSN crawled every nook and cranny of my site. Yahoo? f it ain;t nthe first page it don't get crawled. I have figured out a way to get the thing crawled and that is to get a My Yahoo page, and add a RSS feed with all my pages. This has worked for another site I worked on for someone else. all of hte pages are listed and as I add new ones the get crawled.
back to eh codign room, PHP in hand. Will be looking to add my RSS feed to a few other sites if I can. Seems to help.
kcarring
Drop an instant, free, high PR link to every single web page on your site at Voy.com forums. preferably in one that has some relation to your site theme, if possible. Grab yourself some free links of decent pr here too:

http://www.vancouver-webpages.com/global-sic/sofar.shtml

Add an RSS feed to your MyYahoo page, then build a blog, with links to every single page on your website. ping the blog at yahoo, using pingomatic.com.

all that will help deep inclusion
haak_heu
well what is your sites address Razz

it is very intresting to hear that , but i dont know why some sites are on top other are vrey low , best site on 2 or tird page and worst sites on 1st , this is all advertising is doing people want to see what they are supposed to see , but dont search to see or if they see good site dont promote due to ignorance ...
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