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Any Musicians Out There?!





Dean_The_Great
Now, here's my beef (be prepared now, this is a rant):

So, I've been looking all over this forum and I haven't found many real musicians. I think they're out there. I think they're sitting at their computers writing about the "wonders of pop music" because they, like me, think that there isn't anyone who would understand if they said that they like a song because it goes back to a traditional pentatonic tonality at the bridge.

Also, please don't confuse the term "musician" with "instrumentalist". I've met many musicians who couldn't play an instrument (at any amazing level), and I've met many people who can play instruments well but aren't really musicians. A musician is someone who not only has an enjoyment of music, but a passion for it. If you're a musician, you shouldn't be able to live without music.

Musicians, to me, are people who understand not only what sounds good in music, but why. These are also the people who understand why they do and don't like music. For example, I love Classic Rock because it's complicated musically and also because of the technical apptitude of the players. I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.

Music, in my humble opinion, is the highest form of art... and I'd love, if there is anyone who wants to, discuss it fully. Tell me what you think of music.

I don't care whether you agree or disagree with me... let's hear your opinion.
noexes89
Quote:
Also, please don't confuse the term "musician" with "instrumentalist". I've met many musicians who couldn't play an instrument (at any amazing level), and I've met many people who can play instruments well but aren't really musicians. A musician is someone who not only has an enjoyment of music, but a passion for it. If you're a musician, you shouldn't be able to live without music.


Ok, you kinda redefined the word, but you bring up good points.

Quote:
I love Classic Rock because it's complicated musically and also because of the technical apptitude of the players. I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.


Hmm, ok. I don't find a all of classic rock to be all that compicated musicly (and, really, I don't think that's nessarily a bad thing and there are songs that are) and I don't find all rap to have less than profound lyrics and simple musicianship. Oh, and sometimes stolen melodies can be good. My favorite rap album is "West Sounds" which manages to be rather complex musicly and is over the stolen beats of The Beach Boys.

Anyway, you are really over generalising here, and probaly loosing chances to find great music if you are only going to listen to certain kinds.

Music is second only to silence in expressing the inexpressible

-Some guy I conuldn't find on the internet[/i]
LoveMachine
Am I a musician? Probably not. I strum my guitar from time to time when I'm bored, lonley, or just want to listen to the notes. I listen to other bands, both local and not, and image about how great it would be to have a band and be as creative as I could be without going broke and starving to death.

I agree with you when you say the music is a form of art, and it compels me to think of the old addage, "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like." I take this kind of attitude with me to shows, record stores, and basically everywhere I go, as I'm always following up on music recommendations from some of my more musically enlightened friends.

The biggest thing I look for in music isn't what genre it falls under, but teh originality of it. If I can pick out any riff, phrase, or solo from any music and liken it to something I've already heard before, chances are I'll never listen to it again. This way of thinking shoves me towards more indie and alt rock bands. I do listen to some urban, country, as well as classical and classic rock. But these styles and genres leave almost no room for anything new, so it's rare for me to come across something I like.

I'm currently enjoying The Chickens with some Shout Out Louds, Metric, Broken Social Scene (great to do some drawing to), and the new Gorillaz album sprinkled in. Gold Digger is on there too, but it's my guilty pleasure.

That's really all I can think of for now. I'm sure something will spark me along again later.
midimine
Wow a wannabe musician here Embarassed . Play keys, guitars and , moutharp but don't want to starve. So get me a decent job. Now I have money to buy some nice stuff only don't have the time to play cause earning the money Shocked .
Real musicians are only busy with music. Or they succeed in business or they are bad paid for trying to get there in sleezy clubs Confused
You have good muscians who are an example for "players" and there are bad musicians who are great for themselves Twisted Evil
When I would reincarnate I would try it all over again in electronical music in the year 2525 Cool
shr3dd
Quote:
I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.


Thank you, finally someone with sense.
Billwaa
Well, I will say I am a musician.

I take proud of the Orchestra in my school and I spend a lot of time in it too. I write my own music and song, play different instrustments, inter-change between orchestra and band, string instruments and brass instrustments. I also listen to music a lot. There basically isn't really one day that I have in my life so far really without music because it's everywhere around me.
candycakes
I agree that music is a form of art. It's a way to express yourself, when other means of communicating are impossible, or hard to convey to others. Music alone can make the mood light and happy or dark and mysterious.

I don't really know yet if I consider myself a musician. I do know that I cannot live without music, and I am constantly picking up different instruments and playing with them before I move on to the next. For instance, in one day I might go through the piano, flute, and guitar just for the heck of it. By this I mean that I play all three, not I pick it up and abandon it. I'm in marching band at school, so this plays a big role in a life as well as influences it. Our band has 400 people and when you work together with so many people under one music theme, it's impossible not to be moved. Music for us is the very thing that drives us along.

I've also read somewhere that people with musical abilities are better in some areas than most people. Not sure where that came from though.
anxiety1
im a bass player

i play in a band called anxiety?

www.anxietysound.com - check us out and let me know what you think.
pexivee
Quote:
Musicians, to me, are people who understand not only what sounds good in music, but why.


This may be the truth. This I think also defines professionalism in any art or science.

It is all about learning the language, seeing the forms when you hear them and just thinking "music". Sometimes it can be even annoying to be analyzing what you hear without even trying to do it. Prerogative to this is that you are trained in music.

Training can take many forms: for me it has meant studying in institutions as well as working with mentors - some things you might just be able to learn yourself. I have met "griots" in Western Africa, that have undergone a very strict and disciplined training and they have become professionals. Their grasp of traditional rhythms leave me dumbfounded as my ear struggles to find the form: I can hear it sounds good, I even have a clue why it sounds good, but I have trouble reproducing it - even in theory.

So I took some lessons from them. Sitting in a dark shack, surrounded by griots and their apprentices, I realised that music - any music - is tied to the language. "Mbalax", the basic rhythm, varies in Western Africa according to the musicians language. Learn the language and you can start to "see" the music. That´s when you can forget the words and let the structure and the nyances talk to your inner self. Good command of structure - professionalism - lets your inner self speak throught the music.

What does this tell about western pop music? When I say pop, I talk about music that has become popular because of marketing efforts, not for its originality. Radio and TV-stations with playlists manifest either the simplicity of the souls of popstars or the lack of their professionalism.

Or maybe it is just the money, that talks?

This all has not been in response to the previous post, but.... I play bass, too!
Srs2388
music is one thing that keeps me going
when I am stressed i play and write music... umm I would concider myself an inspiring Musician.. because this summer im buying a new MAC and making a recording studio with it then I will concidermyself to be a Musician because I can make my music much better and be more creative
Vlien
It always breaks my heart a little to hear that you can only be a real musician when you know the technical terms behind it. I never had the chance to take musical schooling, so there I am, taking private piano lessons without any other musical knowledge. I play the piano for about four years now and I really hate the fact that I cannot transcribe the songs that are in my head. I try my best to write a song now and then, but usually I don't get further than the lyrics (must say, I'm good at lyrics) and a few measures of a nice melody, which I then can't complete because of my lack of knowledge. I like to just "play away" on the piano, once in a while it brings up a great melody, however short it is... sigh.
pexivee
Quote:
...a few measures of a nice melody, which I then can't complete...


Don´t worry, Vlien, that happens to all of us! It is not always the lack of skill, that makes it difficult to complete a song...

But if you suspect that completing a song is just a too steep a hill to climb for you, why don´t you find someone to co-write it with you? It is a great way to learn how to compose or just to find out how differently we approach creating music.

The definition of a real musician may be an elusive one: does it exclude the ones without training of any sort - the people who just have an inborn ability and drive to make music?

Well, like with any gift, to fully appreciate it, you have to cherish it. Be it by just studying by yourself or by completing professional training, you get more out of music, when you actively seek to develop your skills.

Musicians are out there - making music!
Vlien
[quote="pexivee"]
Quote:

But if you suspect that completing a song is just a too steep a hill to climb for you, why don´t you find someone to co-write it with you? It is a great way to learn how to compose or just to find out how differently we approach creating music.


Well that's sort of a dream of mine, someone to help me with the technical sides of a song, who knows the "how to's". I'm gonna marry a musician one day...
Thanks for the cheering up Wink
Lennon
Speaking of pentatonic, try pentatonic voices. Heavenly on the piano.

My tips for the guitar:
Learn the basic chords first, especially bar chords.
step away from basic chords as soon as you learn them and try some basic riffs. Good songs to start are Metallica, nothing else matters, and REM everybody hurts, or even Eric Clapton, tears in heaven. Then step up to do some bending, slides, and try the more difficult like the accelerating Stairway to Heaven, or the really fast Sweet Child o Mine. Once you get there you can do anything.

So many pianists are dependant on reading sheet music. As with all musicians, you should get a feel for the music, including learning to play by ear. Scales and chords come first, on both hands with the piano.
Scott
Quote:
I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.

Wow, those are pretty heavy, generalized allegations. I think that a musician should be able to steer clear of these stereotypes and judge music on what it actually is, instead of what genre it falls under. Have ever tried listening to an acoustic hip-hop band with a rapper? Or even electronic groups that are hip-hop centered? This stuff is often really cool, funky and danceable. Pre-fabricated? Stolen? No way. Hopefully you'll change your mind.

Anyways, I would regard myself as a musician, although certainly not a professional one, music is something I really enjoy. I constantly listen to music, and I absolutely love composition. (Although, I don't know quite as much theory as I would like to.) Right now I'm working on a solo album that is very electronic, but is melded with a lot of guitar.
blackheart
Dean_The_Great wrote:


I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.


Although I understand this is you're personal opinion, I think you will find that music from any genre "may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical"

It depends which rap - or more correctly hip-hop - bands or artists you listen to. Immortal Technique has incredibly deep, complex and well-thought out lyrics, whilst Hilltop Hoods (although perhaps not the best of examples) do have a very distinctive melody to each of their songs - namely "Nosebleed Section".
fashioncrimewave
although i play a number of instruments, i have a full time job and don't play out anymore... so i don't have much motivation to practice playing. however i can do recording and songwriting in my spare time, which is a lot of fun.
ddukki
I like listening to music, and love to make it. I don't know if that makes me a musician, since I don't know much theory. Music fascinates me in ways that nothing else does. I'm not very good at what I do, but everything I do basically reverts back to a musical base. Does that make sense to any of you? I'm guessing I'm an amateur musician, but I'd like to think I am a musician.
actualeffection
I just started teaching myself the fundamentals of music theory. I play in a band called Auburns Lullaby. Taking both positions of bass and programming our drum machine. Oh and talking, =P. For our introduction of the EP we are making.

I have a side project. At which I work on when the band is waiting for the next practice. It's more techno-scream kind of stuff. =/

Actual Effections Myspace
Actual Effections Purevolume

And the band...

Auburns Lullaby Myspace
Auburns Lullaby Purevolume

Although I can't say we have much of anything up. Just a crappyily recorded acoustic cover of Sunshine by Jinxed. Which we will probably redo sometime in the future.
bjwok
i would class myself as a musician, i play and write my own songs. ok, so they may not be exactly as you would call "radio pop" but at least my style is my own.

i have a track available for download at my site at the moment. it is called 'why you do what you do?' and you can check it out here:

http://www.bjwok.frih.net/

be interested to hear everyones thoughts on it actually...

cheers Smile
Rejoice44
I considered myself as a musician. I play the guitar both acoustic and electric, the drums, and a little bit of bass. When im not with my drums im usually playing my guitar, thinking of new songs, making new songs, and playing some songs.
I also play the drums, which I already stated. The drums are my passion in music. They're the ones that make me live up tomusic. With many complex and simple beats i can play its my "AntiDrug."
The Electric is really fun i made up some songs with some power chords and it doesnt sound bad.
The bass, I still need help on, its kinda hard cause i cant read notes that well, even though i played the violin and piano.

Overall, i need music to fufill my life, because without it, i wouldnt be the person i am...Music=My Life
the_mariska
Yeah, I consider myself as a musician. Singing since ever, learing the bel canto [=opera vocals] in my music school. Trying to learn there also the piano, but the piano does not love me. And guitar, but that's just for myself.

Passionately in love with every kind of music that moves something inside of me. From gregorian choral to metalcore. Through opera, symphonic, gothic, metal, punk, reggae and electronics. And when the music moves me, it's sometimes like extasy. No matter if this is a huge orchestral work or simply 3 chords with not that good vocals.

I love music. I try to compose a bit, but I'm always mad then that I can't truly express everything what's on my mind. That's why I adore Schubert's songs. A piano, a soprano singer, and that's enough for creating this wonderful kind of atmosphere and passion that the gothic musicians have been searching for forever. And they will never be better.

pexivee wrote:
Quote:
Musicians, to me, are people who understand not only what sounds good in music, but why.


This may be the truth. This I think also defines professionalism in any art or science.

It is all about learning the language, seeing the forms when you hear them and just thinking "music". Sometimes it can be even annoying to be analyzing what you hear without even trying to do it. Prerogative to this is that you are trained in music.


Sometimes annoying? Sometimes it drives me mad, when I listen to a vocalist I love and hear her 1/4 tone out of tune or making a kind of mistake noticable only by vocalists. It drives me mad, when I listen to a nice-sounding guitar riff and then realise that these are only tonical, subdominant and dominant chords in one of the simplest tonations, nothing more. It drives me mad, when I listen to a new song and hear in my head something like this "minor tonation, homophonical facture, mezzosoprano vocals acompanied by a piano, electric bass, and a cello, cantilena melodics, etc. etc.". And the worst thing is when I hear someone singin completely out of tune, and I'm the only one who goes mad about it, as it doesn't disturb my friends. Only when I listen to symphonies, my musical knowledge helps as I can hear even the most subtle instruments among the rest.
bjwok
have you guys got any links to where we can check out your stuff?
nortpron
I've played drums for 4½ year , i have pearl drums, I don't play in a band and
drumming


totallyOWNS
Subsonic Sound
On balance, I'm going to claim to be a musician rather than an instrumentalist, but there's certainly room for improvement. Mind you, isn't that always the case?

I've been playing for some four or five years, primarily fretless bass guitar these days. Beautiful instrument. Plus I'm in my final year of a BSc Sound Technology degree, so I'm starting to focus more and more on arranging, producing and engineering recorded sound as well as composing and performing.
Helios
Vocal trainee.
Trying to learn both growling and clean.
purcebr
yeah, I play bass, violin, and produce some stuff in logic pro.
deStructuralized
Understanding musical technicality is important, but...Jesus Christ, man, some people seriously just take it too far.

If you think music is the ultimate form of art, don't ruin it by picking every sound you hear apart like it's a science. If you walked into a painter's house and told him his oil painting was good, but you couldn't consider it "art" because he didn't combine neo-cubism with abstract dot technique on the twelfth brush stroke, he'd kick you in the face. It's the same for music.

Musical inaccuracy, like singers who are out of tune, is annoying. But there's a certain level of beauty to be appreciated in simplicity, and disliking a modern guitarist just because he doesn't play complex chord progressions on every single track is just screwing yourself.

Dean wrote:
I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies

That's a really one dimensional view of hip-hop music. Seriously, anyone who claims they don't like hip-hop music for the sole reason that it's "theft" doesn't understand the cultural significance and musical complexity behind sampling. It's a cop-out argument, especially since most hip-hop producers nowadays DON'T simply loop two-bars off of old records and call it a wrap.

Bottom line. A musician isn't the same thing as a music theory major.
bjwok
and so, back to my question a few posts ago, have any of you got any tunes we can download and sample?

i have one at my site at the moment, there must be more out there!
battlefield-solo
So hello guys , i am a electric guitar player : that's this model :
http://www.gitary.pl/data/foto.php?f=151005225%2FJackson%20JS-20%20Dinky.JPG&w=150

Personaly i love her ^^ she's got a very very good song Wink
Subsonic Sound
bjwok wrote:
and so, back to my question a few posts ago, have any of you got any tunes we can download and sample?

i have one at my site at the moment, there must be more out there!


http://www.subsonicsound.co.uk/mp3/oceanic.mp3

I'd be interested to know what you think. Smile

The layers of percussion are premade loops, I must admit, but everything else is played by me. Briefly, that's Synth, Acoustic guitar, Electric guitar, Fretless bass and Tap bass.

I've got another one on the go at the moment, it's better, I think, but it's taking a while. The processes I'm using are putting serious strain on my computer. (real-time reverbs and 512-band FFT modulation do not make happy bedfellows - especially three times over! :p)
DeviousRiders
i am a producer of a group that i am making the site to called devious riders we are rap and stuff
bjwok
hey subsonic, reall nice stuff man - beautiful infact.

so everything aside from the percusion is live instruments? even the bass?

i was thinking of a group called 'tussel' when i was listening to this, perhaps you should check them out if you don't already know of their stuff?

what is you music creation set-up out of curiosity?
Manofgames
Dean_The_Great wrote:
Now, here's my beef (be prepared now, this is a rant):

So, I've been looking all over this forum and I haven't found many real musicians. I think they're out there. I think they're sitting at their computers writing about the "wonders of pop music" because they, like me, think that there isn't anyone who would understand if they said that they like a song because it goes back to a traditional pentatonic tonality at the bridge.

Also, please don't confuse the term "musician" with "instrumentalist". I've met many musicians who couldn't play an instrument (at any amazing level), and I've met many people who can play instruments well but aren't really musicians. A musician is someone who not only has an enjoyment of music, but a passion for it. If you're a musician, you shouldn't be able to live without music.

Musicians, to me, are people who understand not only what sounds good in music, but why. These are also the people who understand why they do and don't like music. For example, I love Classic Rock because it's complicated musically and also because of the technical apptitude of the players. I don't like rap and hip hop because it's a mixture of pre-fabricated beats and stolen melodies set to lyrics which may or may not be profound and otherwise sensical.

Music, in my humble opinion, is the highest form of art... and I'd love, if there is anyone who wants to, discuss it fully. Tell me what you think of music.

I don't care whether you agree or disagree with me... let's hear your opinion.


I'm a musician too, I play the piano, I'm currently on GRADE 3.

Any other pianists out there?
Manofgames
Subsonic Sound wrote:
bjwok wrote:
and so, back to my question a few posts ago, have any of you got any tunes we can download and sample?

i have one at my site at the moment, there must be more out there!


http://www.subsonicsound.co.uk/mp3/oceanic.mp3

I'd be interested to know what you think. Smile

The layers of percussion are premade loops, I must admit, but everything else is played by me. Briefly, that's Synth, Acoustic guitar, Electric guitar, Fretless bass and Tap bass.

I've got another one on the go at the moment, it's better, I think, but it's taking a while. The processes I'm using are putting serious strain on my computer. (real-time reverbs and 512-band FFT modulation do not make happy bedfellows - especially three times over! :p)


That song is really, really good.

i think you should congratualte yourself
Subsonic Sound
Yes, the bass is played live. It's tapped though - both hands playing different melodies. I was basically playing the A string with my left hand, and the D and G strings with my right. It's a tricky technique, but the things you can do when you master it beggar belief.

(I've not even close to mastered it - that was a very simple line, comparatively)

My new song is finished, as of about quarter of an hour ago. There are one or two things I want to tweak at the mastering phase, but here you go. Smile

http://www.subsonicsound.co.uk/mp3/posthuman.mp3

This time there are no premade loops - all instruments are played by me, except the drumloops which are programmed by me. Enjoy!

Quote:
what is you music creation set-up out of curiosity?


Various guitars and basses... running through a Boss GT-B effects unit, into a Tascam US122 audio interface. I record into Steinberg Wavelab, and sequence in Reason 3.0. Synths and such are played on an M-Audio Oxygen8 MIDI keyboard, triggering soft-synths in Reason.

It's probably also worth noting I'm on my third year of a BSc Sound Technology course, so I've actually been taught how to use all this stuff properly. Smile
bjwok
yeah, after my last post i checked out your site champ. all the music there is really interesting, i am downloading it as we speak. i also liked how you describe the music and detail what you were thinking of at the time.

your guestbook is down champ, incase you didn't know already...

i am listening to your new track too... let you know my thoughts...
Manofgames
Subsonic Sound wrote:
Yes, the bass is played live. It's tapped though - both hands playing different melodies. I was basically playing the A string with my left hand, and the D and G strings with my right. It's a tricky technique, but the things you can do when you master it beggar belief.

(I've not even close to mastered it - that was a very simple line, comparatively)

My new song is finished, as of about quarter of an hour ago. There are one or two things I want to tweak at the mastering phase, but here you go. Smile

http://www.subsonicsound.co.uk/mp3/posthuman.mp3

This time there are no premade loops - all instruments are played by me, except the drumloops which are programmed by me. Enjoy!

Quote:
what is you music creation set-up out of curiosity?


Various guitars and basses... running through a Boss GT-B effects unit, into a Tascam US122 audio interface. I record into Steinberg Wavelab, and sequence in Reason 3.0. Synths and such are played on an M-Audio Oxygen8 MIDI keyboard, triggering soft-synths in Reason.

It's probably also worth noting I'm on my third year of a BSc Sound Technology course, so I've actually been taught how to use all this stuff properly. Smile


I found your music very interesting, relaxing and varied.

Welldone. Very Happy

I was wondering, can i download it and use your music for personal use??
Subsonic Sound
Unfortunately, I took the guestbook down. It was getting spammed all to hell - I know, I haven't actually removed links to it, but I don't have full access from where I am now. As soon as I get the internet back at home, I'll edit out the links.

And as far as downloading for personal use goes - please do! Very Happy

Like I put in the disclaimer on the site, I'm happy for you to do what you like with the music, as long as you don't profit from it without sharing the wealth. Smile
darth_revan
I play Bass, but cannot call myself Musican. I tried to compose some songs, but i'm not talented Very Happy
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