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You can't fight terrorism from the False side of the law





rwojick
There is an interesting debate going on in the US right now. Should Bush be allowed to violate privacy laws and tap phones without a warrant?

If you have noticed, no one has offered a written definiton of terrorism. This is the exact opposite of what the American Legal Process is. First we write the law, then we file the complaint, then we run the process to determine who the "terrorist" is.

To claim you are fighting terrrorism from the false side of the law defeats the entire idea of the system.

I think George behaved badly after 9-11. And if any other man in American were president he would have behaved badly in his own way to. The offense was mind boggling. But now it is time to regain our footin. If we find ourselves over the line of the law it is our job to gently move back over to the right side of the law. Happens all the time.

The idea that every offense must be punished by time in jail is written no where in the Constitution. The thought is just like "clutter" in our closets, and it is time to clean out the clutter.

If nothing else Bush is a super salesman, but at this time he needs a "marketing adjustment".
godam64
the problem is who is the terrorist?
nobody know who did 9-11 and bush only blaming lot of people without evidence and i think he know a lot about 9-11.
we have some professional terrorist here in indonesia and there is no mercy for them.
jaysen
it makes me happy im not an american citizen...

But our country is very similar, and i think the whole idea is wrong. After all, lets play dumb and believe for a minute that the data they collect is only used for terrorism... for how long? Once the rule is "bent" to accomodate an idea, it makes it easier to keep bending the rules a little further... a little further....a tiny... bit... further.... well you get the idea. How long is it going to be before the constitution isn't much else but an old piece of paper lost to history?

I don't mean to try to blow it up for more than it is, but if your privacy keeps getting tiny pieces torn away.. how long before you don't have anything left? And what about "innocent until proven guilty?" Doesn't evesdropping kind of squash that idea as well?

Without some kind of guideline as to what terrorism really is, they are prettymuch free to step on a whole host of your rights and freedoms...
S3nd K3ys
There's plenty of threads to discuss this. Many of the answers to this thread are in those other threads. Why not carry the discussions there instead of creating a new thread?

At any rate, tell me what you think was 'mind boggling' about the way he handled it?

Then tell me why/how what he has done is illegal. (with proof, of course)

Then tell me what/how YOU would have delt with the situation. (terrorism in general)

Then tell me what the Democrats would do, because so far all they've done is say "you're doing it wrong, but we're not going to suggest a way of doing it right", kind of like you're doing. Wink
Devil
anything that is done to protect the country and its citizens , is right ,

Remember security should come first , and after all they are not going to listen evrything u say , only when u mention some words like , bomb,president, whitehouse etc...... ur call will be picked up
ekingisrael
Sure Bush should be allowed!!!! there is not limitations when fighting terrorism!!!-you can't fight terrorism with silk gloves-we should fight terrorism without any breaks-break all there body parts chek even who they sleep with-no privacy should be respected when suspecting terrorism!

Way to go Bush! GO GET THEM! kick some asses! Exclamation Evil or Very Mad
lockwolf
I cant believe you are against this. Come on people, who is going to care about somebody listening to you while your talking with your girlfriend about how much you love her?
Sappho
I cant believe those who arent against it lockwolf. What will come next? As jaysen already pointed out where is the end to it? We will bend the "laws" each day by a little bit and soon there is none.

In future it seems there will be no difference between American government and terrorists both are selfrighteous, law is what makes the difference.
Soulfire
If you have nothing to hide, what is the point of opposing the law? If you truly have nothing to hide, it should not bother you that the government is trying to learn more about it's people.

And if a phone tap on every building going to the government could prevent another September 11th and the deaths of possibly thousands of fellow Americans, then I feel I should be PATRIOTIC about it and agree with the law. It's love and loyalty for your country, not your own selfishness that counts.
ocalhoun
The false side of the law?
I am afraid you are mistaken. Untill some liberal judge rules that this LAW is unconstitutional, it is the law.

President Bush's actions are entirely legal.
lockwolf
Also if you really want to go into some more reasons why this could help, it could also help track down Rapists, Murders, Pedophiles, Human Traffikers, and other potentially illegal junk of that sort. I don't see why it couldn't help!

Sappho wrote:
I cant believe those who arent against it lockwolf. What will come next? As jaysen already pointed out where is the end to it? We will bend the "laws" each day by a little bit and soon there is none.

In future it seems there will be no difference between American government and terrorists both are selfrighteous, law is what makes the difference.


What are you smoking?
jaysen
oh yes there is good points to it... thats not what the problem is. I don't know about anyone else, but i do not like the idea of someone listening in to all my personal conversations for any reason... not that any of it is illegal, but when i talk to my gf, or to one of my friends, what i say is for them, not for the government. I don't know too many people that like thier diarys read, or ther personal belongings looked through by strangers.... why would i want my conversations scrutinized? if you want to "catch" a criminal thats all fine and great... but treating everyone like a criminal before the fact?

I don't want bad things to happen to anyone and if theres ways to prevent it, thats great.... the point is there is other ways than to accomplish this.
Besides if people know of the wiretap possibility, you really think they are going to give information out knowing theres a possibility of being caught? theres other ways for criminals to communicate you know.....

And what about the people doing this? Yes, they are "lawmen" but they are human too. Giving them the power to listen in on anything they want may simple not be a very smart thing to be doing without supervision...
Sappho
lockwolf wrote:
Also if you really want to go into some more reasons why this could help, it could also help track down Rapists, Murders, Pedophiles, Human Traffikers, and other potentially illegal junk of that sort. I don't see why it couldn't help!


Ok whats the next step? Lets start implanting microchips into ppl it will drop the criminality to near zero, couse everyone will be "watched" no more unsolved crimes.

Do u like it? Then do it, but stay hell away out of my country pls Smile There should be a balance between whats good for the community and the right for personal privacy and invading my privacy even if its just a phonetap is ruining this balance thats all.
Sappho
jaysen wrote:
And what about the people doing this? Yes, they are "lawmen" but they are human too. Giving them the power to listen in on anything they want may simple not be a very smart thing to be doing without supervision...


Its like the ending of the movie "Enemy of the State" where it was pointed out very nicely:

Senator: "We will create a commision that will monitor ppl who has the right to monitor other ppl."
Woman: "But who will monitor the commision monitoring the ppl that monitor other ppl?"

Laughing
S3nd K3ys
ocalhoun wrote:
The false side of the law?
I am afraid you are mistaken. Untill some liberal judge rules that this LAW is unconstitutional, it is the law.

President Bush's actions are entirely legal.


x2. He got approval from congress AND the constitution. The left just keeps tossing lies out hoping one will stick.
coolclay
Quote:
I don't know about anyone else, but i do not like the idea of someone listening in to all my personal conversations for any reason... not that any of it is illegal, but when i talk to my gf, or to one of my friends, what i say is for them, not for the government. I don't know too many people that like thier diarys read, or ther personal belongings looked through by strangers.... why would i want my conversations scrutinized?


I hope this ain't news to you but the US is not monitering every person like the left tries to pretend. Only people with ties to terrorists, or suspected terrorists are being "spied" upon, and they damn well better be.

We must give up some of our freedoms to maintain a safe country. Like Dorthy said in The Wizard of Oz, "this ain't Kansas anymore". After 9/11 we have had to make sacrifices to protect our country, and so far they have been working pretty damn well.
xray757
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Then tell me why/how what he has done is illegal. (with proof, of course)
The CIA kidnapped at least one innocent person. That's truly against the law that you are unguilty until your guilt has been proven.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
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