I am sorry to tell but it is true, every versions of my windows programs are pirated. I don't think i have ever used windows versions original or any other costly software paying price. I live in Nepal, one of developing countries of the world. Our per capita income is 240USD thats too small amount. If I ever had to pay for the softwares I wanted to use, till now it will amount many times of my yearly expenditure. Many of my countrymen use pirated softwares. Pirated software are found here are there in the market. I recently bought Windows XP Media Center Edition with 0.5 dollar, so cheap, its was pirated but it works fine and for me piracy has been only way i have been getting the softwares.
I think there should be LOW PRICE EDITION of the softwares for the people of he countries like mine, so as to lower down the piracy.
You cannot justify using pirated software. It is illegal and immoral. DON'T DO IT!
There really is no excuse, install freeware software. There are plenty of free Linux distributions out there and free applications to go with it. If you can't afford MS and other paid software, use the free alternatives that are out there.
If everyone who used pirated software actually paid for it, then the software manufacturers could drop the price making it more available.
That must be hard for the software companies. Either they drop the prices so people can afford it then their would be less pirating. Or raise the prices so they can cover their loss from all the pirating. Or they just keep developing new ways to limit the pirating but then the price would have to go up because they had to spend money for new technologies to get rid of the pirating problem. Its one big mess if you ask me.
Yeah I think there should be low price versions as well even if they have tu cut out some of the features. It does not make since to charge alot if people can just pirate instead. Companies should charge for some software and more should be free. Like the google pack that just came out that is a raelly good idae and other businesses should do the same kinda free bundle deal.
| Goatmonkey wrote: |
| Yeah I think there should be low price versions as well even if they have tu cut out some of the features. It does not make since to charge alot if people can just pirate instead. |
Companies should not have to cut their prices just because other people choose to steal their software.
Put yourself in their place. You work every day for several years to create a piece of software that does its job perfectly. You put it on the interet yourself for $50 - you sell a few copies, then find out hundreds or thousands of people are using the software without paying you for it. The software is "in the open" so the amount of money you make plummets.
There is no excuse for stealing software. For virtually everything (except very specialist programs or games) there is a free alternative.
Linux = Free Windows
Thunderbird = Free Outlook
Open Office = Free Microsoft Office
AVG Free = Free Norton AntiVirus
All you have to do is search Sourceforge and you'll be able to find a free version of almost anything.
If you can't afford a program, use an alternative. In many cases, the alternatives are better that the paid-versions. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who try to justify theft. If you really can't afford it and don't like the alternatives, do without.I know that it may be easy for people to suggest to use alternative software titles in order to not be breaking the laws, but it's not actually a piece of cake for someone to sacrafice losing all that they know about Windows and make a huge jump over to Linux. Come on people. It's easier said than done, and I'm guessing that the author of this thread isn't even budging to make the switch. Simply just my opinion, and I'm sure there are a couple of people reading who can agree with me. I know that the free stuff is out there, but many times it contains advertisements and sponsor programs to make them free. If you download the free version of Adobe's Reader, there is a small advertisement embedded within the program, just an example off of the top.
- Mike.
| izcool wrote: |
I know that it may be easy for people to suggest to use alternative software titles in order to not be breaking the laws, but it's not actually a piece of cake for someone to sacrafice losing all that they know about Windows and make a huge jump over to Linux. Come on people. It's easier said than done, and I'm guessing that the author of this thread isn't even budging to make the switch. Simply just my opinion, and I'm sure there are a couple of people reading who can agree with me. I know that the free stuff is out there, but many times it contains advertisements and sponsor programs to make them free. If you download the free version of Adobe's Reader, there is a small advertisement embedded within the program, just an example off of the top.
- Mike. |
As with everything in life, if you can't afford something, you have to make sacrfices. How would you feel if someone "borrowed" your car because they can't afford the petrol to run their own? The author of this thread can afford a PC, so he must have some income. If he can't afford to pay MS for the operating system, then he must make a sacrifice and use Linux. Not steal to have Windows. MS may be a huge, wealthy company, but they got there by producing good software that is affordable to the masses (if not everyone). You may not like the company MS, but the majority of us use their software, they are doing something right.I say let him run the pirated crap. Sooner or later he'll run the wrong one and *poof* he'll be infected. 
Maybe Bondings should give his IP address to Bill Gates.
yes im sure bill gates doesn't have enough money yet from all the "perfect" software he's put out over the years. (anyone remember 98?)
i've run pirated stuff in the past and i know both sides of the arguement...
Very simple rule to live by about pirated software. if you like the program, buy it... if you don't like it, delete it. ESPECIALLY when it comes from the little grassroots companys that are struggling to stay afloat. Those are the ones that need our money, and they are usually the ones that are actually TRYING to put out a good product without screwing thier customer base over...
don't mind me, i just have a problem with Microshafts ethics 
Bill Gates was taken to court a couple of times by incorporating Internet Explorer into Windows 98. Also he's been taken to court because they think that he's running a monopoly. It's quite amazing on how he got to become a millionaire, I've done my research and it was when Paul Allen bought Q-DOS (Quick [and] Dirty Operating System) from a place called the Seattle Computer Company for $50,000, messed around with it and renamed it to MS-DOS (Microsoft Disk Operating System). He resold it to IBM for about $100.00 per copy and became an instant millionaire.
By you saying that we have to make sacrifices on such things, I can agree with you on some part, but not 100%. If he got the copy of Windows from somewhere and never paid the full amount, then he got away with it. Microsoft got really jumpy on dodgy copies of Windows when Windows XP first came out. I remember they were really strict on activation, and a couple of years later, I find out that they've lightened up on it probably because it was so intensive on their people to do the job.
To be honest, with my one Windows XP CD, I've probably used it about 30 different times and each time I got it activated. When I try to do it online (the first time) it tells me that it's no good, then to call them up. They ask me for the numbers on the screen, I tell them to the rep, and then they ask me if I used the CD before (I tell them no) and if it's the first time I'm activating this CD (I tell them yes). In a matter of a minute or so, I get it activated. Microsoft did the same thing with the Plus! Expansion packs for Windows XP. Some other comapnies tried to adopt the same idea and it worked, but with others it was easily broken into.
It's just like saying that no one done anything bad in their life. Everyone done something they shouldn't have in their life, many people with software. Yes, I've participated in some downloading like that, but I've not been doing it lately.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the author of this thread paid a couple hundred (or thousands) dollars on a PC. It's easy to pick up a machine from a local thrift store, flea market, or the garbage. I've bought a Pentium 4 1.7GHz machine at the Salvation Army the other month for $30.00 (no kidding, totally true), probably for the reason because the last owner had a password on it, and they couldn't get into it. I did my magic and got it to work. It had an 80GB hard drive and 512MB of RAM. Then I've pulled numerous computers from out of the garbage in my area (sometimes complete setups, monitor and all) that are half-way decent as well.
Just my honest opinion.
- Mike.
I agree that software should be sold for reasonable prices in developing countries.
I you earn US$80 or $100 a month you can not live on that and buy software.
| Quote: |
| The author of this thread can afford a PC, so he must have some income. |
Yea but what is his computer?
Is it the latest 2Ghz wiz machine or an old Pentium 100 or something like that?
Many students in Indonesia have a computer but it is very old and still for them expensive. But to help with study and education they must try to buy one. They can no way afford to pay more for an O.S than the computer cost. Then you must get all the other software.
Would any of you Americans, Australians, Europeans or whatever developed country you caome from. Would you spend a months wages on a computer then another years wages to get a bit of good software?
Or would you buy it for a couple of hours pay instead?
The thing is most of you might work for a day or so to pay for Windows O.S. would you work for two months? And how would you buy food for that two months? So it will take maybe 5 months or 6 months cause you must eat too.
I think you would buy the pirate software. | paul_indo wrote: |
I agree that software should be sold for reasonable prices in developing countries.
I you earn US$80 or $100 a month you can not live on that and buy software. |
I agree. That doesn't condone piracy.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | The author of this thread can afford a PC, so he must have some income. |
| Quote: | Yea but what is his computer?
Is it the latest 2Ghz wiz machine or an old Pentium 100 or something like that? |
|
His PC is running Windows XP Media Center Edition - I doubt that will run on a Pentium 100!
| Quote: |
Would any of you Americans, Australians, Europeans or whatever developed country you caome from. Would you spend a months wages on a computer then another years wages to get a bit of good software?
Or would you buy it for a couple of hours pay instead? |
I would use free, legal software like Linux. Priacy is illegal. Besides, Linux runs better than Windows XP on less powerful machines.
| Quote: |
The thing is most of you might work for a day or so to pay for Windows O.S. would you work for two months? And how would you buy food for that two months? So it will take maybe 5 months or 6 months cause you must eat too.
I think you would buy the pirate software. |
Well, actually I'm unemployed at the moment. I can't afford to buy a PC, or software for that matter. It doesn't give me the right to use pirate copies on the PC I already own.Priated software, Is it really that bad? They charge so much because its they know people will pay that much for it because... its simply not easy for them to create or find a generic version of it. They make us pay so much money for it, but everyone should know it costs them so much less to make it AND pay the workers. So I say, If you want to priate it, then do it. If they want to try to steal your money, Why not try to steal their software?
| Mizzro wrote: |
| They make us pay so much money for it, but everyone should know it costs them so much less to make it AND pay the workers. So I say, If you want to priate it, then do it. If they want to try to steal your money, Why not try to steal their software? |
So by your logic, Ferrari make very expensive cars. They have plenty money, and they make a profit when they sell their products. Therefore, it's perfectly ok for me to go out and steal a Ferrari because I can't/won't spend money on it?
Sorry, but it's theft.I couldn't believe this, but Microsoft has a free version of Visual Basic available! It's called Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition. I think it's their way to try and stop piracy of Visual Basic/Visual Studio.
| Quote: |
| Our per capita income is 240USD thats too small amount |
Yeah, that's a very small amount. Why should you have to pay a whole year's worth of wages just to get an operating system? You should use Linux!
| Quote: |
| Either they drop the prices so people can afford it then their would be less pirating. Or raise the prices so they can cover their loss from all the pirating |
I thought about that, it's like a chicken and egg problem. If the prices were lower, there'd be less piracy. However, all the piracy makes the prices go up. Because the prices are going up, less people can afford them, and run pirate versions. Because they are running pirate versions, the prices go even higher.......... And so on. I think That Saiyeek is telling the truth and we all must be with him in this ...........
I too am from Nepal and myself know that we cannot afford the original CDs and all the softwares I use are also Pirated. I mean totally pirated.
I am not going to leave this and will be using Piratyed softwares untill the time I get Original CD's for much more less price that i can afford...
I am also on the side of Freeware softwares.
It is much more better to download software from the net just for free than to get the CD .
Comparing the theft of software to theft of physical property (like a car) is like comparing apples to oranges. A car takes time and effort to design and build. Once the design is done, it doesn't need to be done again no matter how many cars you build. However, you do need to continually put time and money into building the car.
It is obvious that the designers need to be compensated for their work. However, do they need to be compensated the full amount for every car they make? No - and they don't either - they are paid to do the design and then they are done. In the same way, software developers make the program and should be paid. However, once they are sufficiently compensated for their work, the price of more copies of software (for which the cost of production is almost nothing) should go down significantly.
P.S. While I believe that developers should be compensated for their effort (usually by payments to use their software), I think it is stupid business to charge the same price to all users. It removes people from the market that would like to buy your product, but cannot afford it at the full price.
| RA wrote: |
Comparing the theft of software to theft of physical property (like a car) is like comparing apples to oranges. A car takes time and effort to design and build. Once the design is done, it doesn't need to be done again no matter how many cars you build. However, you do need to continually put time and money into building the car.
It is obvious that the designers need to be compensated for their work. However, do they need to be compensated the full amount for every car they make? No - and they don't either - they are paid to do the design and then they are done. In the same way, software developers make the program and should be paid. However, once they are sufficiently compensated for their work, the price of more copies of software (for which the cost of production is almost nothing) should go down significantly.
P.S. While I believe that developers should be compensated for their effort (usually by payments to use their software), I think it is stupid business to charge the same price to all users. It removes people from the market that would like to buy your product, but cannot afford it at the full price. |
So we should not have to pay for music, films, books either, because other than the cost of manufacture, once the artists have been paid for the production there should be no need to pay royalties.
I think this attitude sucks. You are saying that people should be paid the effort that goes in to producing software, and not for the success of it; when the success is based on how good it is.
Software houses need to keep money coming in from their software sales so they can afford to keep paying the developers to create new products to keep their software the best and ensure future sales.
Piracy is illegal, and if you get caught, you deserve everything you get for it.First of all there is a difference between freeware and free software - visit www.fsf.org for the details. Secondly, I would recommend people in the developing countries to go in for free open source software(foss) . There was a time when FOSS was quite low in terms of technology compared to commercial software but not anymore. Here are some of the observations about FOSS (made by RMS) :
****************************
| Quote: |
My hope was that a free operating system would open a path to escape forever from the system of subjugation which is proprietary software. I had experienced the ugliness of the way of life that non-free software imposes on its users, and I was determined to escape and give others a way to escape.
Non-free software carries with it an antisocial system that prohibits cooperation and community. You are typically unable to see the source code; you cannot tell what nasty tricks, or what foolish bugs, it might contain. If you don't like it, you are helpless to change it. Worst of all, you are forbidden to share it with anyone else. To prohibit sharing software is to cut the bonds of society.Today we have a large community of users who run GNU, Linux and other free software. Thousands of people would like to extend this, and have adopted the goal of convincing more computer users to "use free software". But what does it mean to "use free software"? Does that mean escaping from proprietary software, or merely installing free programs alongside it? Are we aiming to lead people to freedom, or just introduce them to our code? In other words, are we working for freedom, or have we replaced that goal with the shallow goal of popularity?
It's easy to get in the habit of overlooking this distinction, because in many common situations it makes no difference. When you're trying to convince a person to try a free program, or to install the GNU/Linux operating system, either goal would lead to the same practical conduct. However, in other situations the two goals inspire very different actions.
For instance, what should we say when the non-free Invidious video driver, the non-free Prophecy database, or the non-free Indonesia language interpreter and libraries, is released in a version that runs on GNU/Linux? Should we thank the developers for this "support" for our system, or should we regard this non-free program like any other--as an attractive nuisance, a temptation to accept bondage, a problem to be solved?
If you take as your goal the increased popularity of certain free software, if you seek to convince more people to use some free programs some of the time, you might think those non-free programs are helpful contributions to that goal. It is hard to dispute the claim that their availability helps make GNU/Linux more popular. If the widespread use of GNU or Linux is the ultimate goal of our community, we should logically applaud all applications that run on it, whether free or not.
But if our goal is freedom, that changes everything. Users cannot be free while using a non-free program. To free the citizens of cyberspace, we have to replace those non-free programs, not accept them. They are not contributions to our community, they are temptations to settle for continuing non-freedom.
There are two common motivations to develop a free program. One is that there is no program to do the job. Unfortunately, accepting the use of a non-free program eliminates that motivation. The other is the will to be free, which motivates people to write free replacements for non-free programs. In cases like these, that motive is the only one that can do the job. Simply by using a new and unfinished free replacement, before it technically compares with the non-free model, you can help encourage the free developers to persevere until it becomes superior.Those non-free programs are not trivial. Developing free replacements for them will be a big job; it may take years. The work may need the help of future hackers, young people today, people yet to be inspired to join the work on free software. What can we do today to help convince other people, in the future, to maintain the necessary determination and persistance to finish this work?
The most effective way to strengthen our community for the future is to spread understanding of the value of freedom--to teach more people to recognize the moral unacceptability of non-free software. People who value freedom are, in the long term, its best and essential defense. |
***************************
rgds
Sameer If they made different prices for different people, wouldn't everyone just try to get it for the cheapest price?
Even if you can't afford it, that is NO excuse to break the law. If you can't afford it, wait to use it until you can afford it, or find an alternative. If everyone would just obey the law, then the whole world would be a much better place. 
see i know pirated software is wrong but some software does cost alot. such as autodesk programs. I use them for education but i don't have a spare $1000 in my pocket.
| nealio1000 wrote: |
| see i know pirated software is wrong but some software does cost alot. such as autodesk programs. I use them for education but i don't have a spare $1000 in my pocket. |
There are "educational" versions of a lot of software, including Windows XP, Office, etc. You have to "qualify" to purchase them, but if you are a student, teacher, etc. you can get this software. It is exactly the same, only cheaper, and you are limited to using it for non-commercial use. That said, if you are genuinely needing it for educational perposes that is not a problem. | SoftStag wrote: |
| That said, if you are genuinely needing it for educational perposes that is not a problem. |
Sorry, but being a student does not exempt you from the law. There are educational licenses available for almost all Autodesk programs - if you can't afford them then you'll need to use the copies in your educational establishment. If they don't have the software in your establishment, then you don't need the software at all.I hear that microsoft is going to make 7 different versions of Windows Vista. This way people with different incomes can buy the best one for their wallet.
I feel it is a smart idea. Because there are some people out there that use pirated software because they can;t afford the real one, and they would by the real one if they could afford it.
Hopefully this works for microsoft and it stops a lot of priacy.
The best way to avoid using pirated software is to migrate to the free ones.
For instance, more and more people are surfing with firefox. A great deal of free softwares are compiled so they can run under windows XP for instance.
| SoftStag wrote: |
You cannot justify using pirated software. It is illegal and immoral. DON'T DO IT!
There really is no excuse, install freeware software. There are plenty of free Linux distributions out there and free applications to go with it. If you can't afford MS and other paid software, use the free alternatives that are out there.
If everyone who used pirated software actually paid for it, then the software manufacturers could drop the price making it more available. |
Do you think really think they would drop the prices?!
They'll just put the xtra cash in there pockets, as everybody buys the
software anyway.Hey, didn't Microsoft release the budget windows for about $50? 
And you know, pirating software to an extent isn't bad, l do it just to trial the crap out, half the time, a program l would pay $40 for ends up being deleated because it wasn't worth the HDD space . The fact is, that a lot of the big companies really don't care that much about the pirating , even if the pirating ceased, their prices would stay the same and then they would be filthy rich! Did you know, Microsoft makes about 7x what they made selling evey OS they released, each year by releasing a new Office? Do you really think they care if you pirate a single copy, or even if 700 people pirate a copy? The big buisnesses still have to have legit copys of everything or the IRS will come a runnin. The common household pirate doesn't affect the market at all .
Now, if you could pirate Bill Gates stock, that would trash the market . | KHO wrote: |
| The fact is, that a lot of the big companies really don't care that much about the pirating , even if the pirating ceased, their prices would stay the same and then they would be filthy rich! |
So you're saying it's ok to steal software because the guys who make it are rich? No. It's never ok to steal.
There's a rich guy living a few houses away from me... maybe I could steal his car, his TV and his Hi-Fi. When I get caught by the police, I could explain that he's rich so it doesn't matter... I would probably just get away with a warning.
Pirates, eh? Laws don't apply?I used to think I would have to use pirated software for all the stuff I couldn't afford...
But there's enough out there that's open-sourced & free that nothing on my system is illegal anymore.
Take a look around, you might be surprised.
(And Linux ISN'T that difficult to learn, especially with the newer interfaces available).
A couple years ago Bill Gates said that nobody should be pirating software. But if they were, he'd prefer if it was his. I guess so that there are more people using Microsoft product. I am happy to oblige him 
I use linux, y cuz itz free. I think the US government should have broken Microsoft a long time ago. By law they are supposed to break up monopolies so stuff like this doesnt happen, but our government is corrupt and the citizens dont want to fix it, because we are living with a higher standard of living than everyone else. I support pirating software and using pirated software, because people shouldnt charge other people for thoughts. If it was something physical like a car or house, i wouldnt support stealing it or anything, but software should be free, so should books. The forum we are typing on right now was distributed free wasnt it? so why cant everyone do that?
The software companies can't drop the prices of their software in one country because then here's what would happen.
People living in that country would buy the software for real cheap and sell it on ebay or something similar. No one would pay the full price and just get the cheap versions from the countries with low prices. Having diffrent versions may help but that's already out there. Let's take microsoft office as an example. There are multiple versions of it. If you can't afford pro then buy student version. If you can't afford any of them then get open office.
I know it would be hard to swich fully to linux. Most of the programs and such work on windows only. But, just because you can't afford it doesn't give you the right to steal it.
Linux's downfall is the people who develop for it. They're too damn lazy to provide the binaries, and the average user dispises compiling(in fact I as a developer dispise compiling anything but my own work) & does not care about them. Sources end up wasting more space then the application itself, and are a waste of time.
Well, there's always an alternative as mentioned before me.
I also can't afford many things, therefore I use Linux as my operating system.
Just to mention, {name here}, what you've just said isn't a downfall at all. It's actually an advantage that Linux has a whole community of developers.
Million people are less lazy than 1000 employees at M1cr0soft.
Actually, that's one of the reasons Linux has less viruses.
But that's not the topic here.
To the poster: Try using Linux or any other Free Software operating system. my view on piracy is that their shouldn't be any. and as for getting the programs you need, all everyone else needs is more charitys, that would take a immense load off.
| DCLXVI wrote: |
| I use linux, y cuz itz free. I think the US government should have broken Microsoft a long time ago. By law they are supposed to break up monopolies so stuff like this doesnt happen, but our government is corrupt and the citizens dont want to fix it, because we are living with a higher standard of living than everyone else. I support pirating software and using pirated software, because people shouldnt charge other people for thoughts. If it was something physical like a car or house, i wouldnt support stealing it or anything, but software should be free, so should books. The forum we are typing on right now was distributed free wasnt it? so why cant everyone do that? |
I'm sure you wouldn't take a job as a software developer, or write a book, if you knew that your efforts would not be rewarded financially. The fact is we all need money to live, and people choose to write software for a living. If they don't get paid, they won't do the job, so the software won't exist. If the software is given away free, who is going to pay the developers?I think there is no excuse.
with plenty of free OSes out there you shouldn't even have to do pirateing.
Mac OS and Windows OS are currently the most compadible and easist oses to use. But linux will let you do the same thing. that these can do and is still very user frendly. You should even do some research on ReAct OS this is a fan made windows os. Runs windows apps. without the windows FOR FREE. it even works with drivers. And if your so poor my I ask how did you get the computer?
in my opinion, piracy isnt a gud thing... and never was.. but for this nepal guy... I think wut the company shuld do is to... lower the price in poor countries to avoid piracy... people are pushed to do piracy because they culdnt aford the original once...and if they lower the price... then this poor people wuld juz buy em rather than pirate em.. (i think)
What I read here is that the moderators and a very short list of other people are totally against pirating. Understandable. This subject has two sides to the story. Theft is and always will be theft. whoever commits it or whatever is stolen.
But the other side of the story is that MS PRETENDS they develop software for EVERYBODY. If you look at it that way their attitude isn't fair or correct, 'cause there are a lot of people who CANNOT afford products from MS. And probably never will. As such might be the case of the initial poster.
I also agree that pirating would be banned pretty much if people could buy a copy of MS Software, for instance win XP, for about € 50,-. As a poor student, having to pay € 350,- for a cd with just a couple of 0's and 1's, this IS and probably WILL be always OUTRAGEOUS! Even normal families here in the netherlands use pirated software. and why? the COMMON opinion is that prices are just to damn high! and whe're one of the wheltiest countries in Europe!!!
another reason piracy is that open source software is not for everybody. Try to put Linux on a computer if you've never been using it before. or if you are a noob to pc's. There's allways smoebody in your neighborhood who knows how to install XP on the contrary. I haven't come across many students in my college or hometown(and thats a fairly big here) how really KNOW how GNO and freeware stuff works. And then there's compatibility problem. I will not even talk about that.
Ok, you see, the problem is, as I see it (which is quite a hindered perspective) is Microsoft. They make expensive software, and since they completely dominate the market (except for something like 14% Linux and Mac) they can price their (crappy) software however they want and people will buy it because that's all they know about. Then they make it hard for people to write useful programs and illegal to change their software to make it easier to write useful programs. If you don't believe me, spend 1 week writing a single Windows program, then try to do the same program in Linux.
So, since it is so hard and the market only knows how to pull out thier plastic and pay for expensive software, the software developers can also put unreasonable prices on their software, especially if it is from another giant like Adobe or Autodesk. So the common populace is unaware of the COMPLETELY free (both as in freedom and as in no money) alternatives that are just as good if not better (better in my opinion) than the expensive stuff.
So more creative people (who could be very constructive if they used Linux instead of Windows) find ways to make that expensive software available for free or little cost to everyone else. They are often either criminals at heart or they really should be a Linux user.
Anyway, the practical solution to software piracy is Linux. Yep, that little penguin will take away all your troubles...
| SoftStag wrote: |
You cannot justify using pirated software. It is illegal and immoral. DON'T DO IT!
There really is no excuse, install freeware software. There are plenty of free Linux distributions out there and free applications to go with it. If you can't afford MS and other paid software, use the free alternatives that are out there.
If everyone who used pirated software actually paid for it, then the software manufacturers could drop the price making it more available. |
U dont download Mp3, DvDScreeners, Pc Games, Play2/psp/Ds/XboX.... games, etc....??
I cant believe it I think that MS should be more considerate of pple in developing countries. They should at least drop their prices of their OS in developing countries. Not everybody can afford $200, as in developing countries, it may mean a few months or a year's pay, as compared to developed countries which is onli like maybe less than 10% of your monthly pay to many of you out there. The price of their OS is just a bomb to those living in developing countries. Just because no other OS is as popular or as good as theirs, it doesn't mean that they can charge as much as they want to bombard the people. $200 is seriously very expensive... I mean piracy is of course illegal, but it is partially or mostly MS fault. I think they should rather have a softer approach like dropping prices as compared to harder approaches like hardening the software from piracy, as powerful hackers will surely find a way to hack it again... No software or method is foolproof. MS is earning like millions or billions, and you say it can't afford to just lower the prices for poorer people????
But if u download mp3s, dvd-screeners, etc... if its for your own use, its legal, at least here in spain 
About software yeah, i never have paid for a window$ distribution, always downloaded all, and i will never of course pay 300€ for a window$ version.
Otherwise, i buy some games i think are worth it to pay for, and some specific software sometimes, but 1st many times i download pirate version(which is exactly the same as the one u buy except u dont have manuals in paper...), and if i really like and need that software and support etc, i buy it.
But im sure EVERYONE downloads Mp3,films, and games(say games for pc,or ps2,xbox.....).
Unless you are rich of course, if i were rich and had the money that michael jordan, allen iverson or all those guys have, i would buy everything too heh | oskuro wrote: |
But im sure EVERYONE downloads Mp3,films, and games(say games for pc,or ps2,xbox.....).
Unless you are rich of course, if i were rich and had the money that michael jordan, allen iverson or all those guys have, i would buy everything too heh |
I don't. And I'm not rich either. It's called honesty - I don't break the law because I want something but can't afford it. If I'm a bit short of cash at the end of the month, I wait till I'm paid next month then go out and buy a CD that I want.
It is absolutely ridiculous that you think it's ok to steal something because you can't afford to buy it. Ok, if you were poor, living on the streets and couldn't afford to eat, it would probably be OK for you to steal a loaf of bread to stay alive, but the fact you can afford a computer means that you don't fit into this category. It also means that stealing software, music, movies, games etc. is inexcusable.
Have you tried Open Source? Like Linux etc? You may be pleasantly surprised, but if you don't like it, buy your software rather than stealing it.
And by the way...
| oskuro wrote: |
| But if u download mp3s, dvd-screeners, etc... if its for your own use, its legal, at least here in spain |
No it's not legal - it's covered by EU Anti-Piracy laws. | Animal wrote: |
| oskuro wrote: | But im sure EVERYONE downloads Mp3,films, and games(say games for pc,or ps2,xbox.....).
Unless you are rich of course, if i were rich and had the money that michael jordan, allen iverson or all those guys have, i would buy everything too heh |
I don't. And I'm not rich either. It's called honesty - I don't break the law because I want something but can't afford it. If I'm a bit short of cash at the end of the month, I wait till I'm paid next month then go out and buy a CD that I want.
It is absolutely ridiculous that you think it's ok to steal something because you can't afford to buy it. Ok, if you were poor, living on the streets and couldn't afford to eat, it would probably be OK for you to steal a loaf of bread to stay alive, but the fact you can afford a computer means that you don't fit into this category. It also means that stealing software, music, movies, games etc. is inexcusable.
Have you tried Open Source? Like Linux etc? You may be pleasantly surprised, but if you don't like it, buy your software rather than stealing it.
And by the way...
| oskuro wrote: | | But if u download mp3s, dvd-screeners, etc... if its for your own use, its legal, at least here in spain |
No it's not legal - it's covered by EU Anti-Piracy laws. |
U NEVER copied a VHS, cd, dvd, mp3, song, software.... never never never??wow man impressive really, people like you are difficult to find, how honest
Well, here in spain, we have a group of other THIEVES called SGAE:
http://www.sgae.es/sgae.inm?selectedMenu=-1
they put a canon in everything they can, almost, they go to weddings and if they are playing music without canon autorizathion, they order em to pay em!! This group in spain is very hated, by users and authors of music also, and so on.
If i had to pay for all the music i have....
I just download some music, software not many, cause im a programmer, and i only need some specific programs, and yes i know how hard is to make code, really
But dont call people thieves.
Here in spain, if u download a film, and if it´s for PERSONAL USE, its LEGAL, i know it from first hand, i just download a film, i watch it, and erase it.
Yes, i have tried open source, linux and so, i use it too, but the standard is windows, for almost everything and i use programming programs that run under windows, linux i use it for other things.
By the way, we should tell how old are we, to just give a perspective to the answers of this post too, and the country u live in
Im 23 years old, from Spain.
Well, i will want to say many things about this, but only know how to explain well in spanish, in english quite difficult 
cya
If u know spanish, read this:
http://www.nosoypirata.com/index.php?page_id=6
Translation of a part of that text:
| Quote: |
Copia Privada
Según la Ley de Propiedad Intelectual una obra ya divulgada puede ser reproducida sin autorización del autor cuando dicha reproducción se hace "para uso privado del copista" y siempre que la copia no sea objeto de utilización colectiva ni lucrativa.
Por tanto, un usuario particular no tiene que solicitar autorización del autor/es de una obra musical o audiovisual cada vez que graba la misma para su propio uso, y sin que vaya a ser objeto de negocio.
Fuente: SGAE
|
Resuming: An user DOESNT NEED authorization from author/s of music/films, each time he does a copy for his own use and if user is not going to earn money with it.
U can read many info in that page, in spain works that way these things.
Try to do this test:
http://www.nosoypirata.com/soyunpirata.php
Translating test wait....
| Quote: |
1.Do u download music of films?
No i dont.
Yes i do
2.When u download these music and films, u record em to Cdrs/Dvds, go to the street and sell them??
Yes
No
3.If u download films or music, u use to give it as a gift to a friend?
Yes
No, i seel it to my friend.
4.If u download music or films, u use them to listen/watch in your particular entorn(house or whatever its said )
Yes
No, i sell it.
5.If u download music or films, u put that in a commecial radio??
Yes
No
6.If u download music, u have several people to distribute it by all your country???
Yes, and outside my countrie too.
Yes, only my country.
No
7.If you are the owner of a great mediatic enterprise, u download music from internet and when u program it in your tv, u pay author rights??
Yes i pay religiously author rights
No i dont pay it.
Im not owner of a great mediatic enterprise
8.How many tittles u have in your music collection??
1 - 100
100 - 1000
1000 - 10000
Buffff many
9. U rent films in a film-rent(blockbuster), and later you make a copy??
Yes, for private use.
Yes for making many copies and sell them
No i dont rent
.
10.You sail through the caribean sea or others, attacking other ships, stealing other people money, etc??(I suck translating i know, it means if u act like a pirate in caribean sea )
Yes
No, and i dont have a patch in my eye
I dont donwload music and im scared of ships barcos.
|
Well, u can make test with that i think
Copy/paste here the result of your tests, i can resume what they say, cya
I answered:
1.b
2.b
3.a
4.a
5.b
6.c
7.c
8.c
9.a
10.b
Result:
Im not a pirate. | Animal wrote: |
| oskuro wrote: | But im sure EVERYONE downloads Mp3,films, and games(say games for pc,or ps2,xbox.....).
Unless you are rich of course, if i were rich and had the money that michael jordan, allen iverson or all those guys have, i would buy everything too heh |
I don't. And I'm not rich either. It's called honesty - I don't break the law because I want something but can't afford it. If I'm a bit short of cash at the end of the month, I wait till I'm paid next month then go out and buy a CD that I want.
It is absolutely ridiculous that you think it's ok to steal something because you can't afford to buy it. Ok, if you were poor, living on the streets and couldn't afford to eat, it would probably be OK for you to steal a loaf of bread to stay alive, but the fact you can afford a computer means that you don't fit into this category. It also means that stealing software, music, movies, games etc. is inexcusable.
Have you tried Open Source? Like Linux etc? You may be pleasantly surprised, but if you don't like it, buy your software rather than stealing it.
And by the way...
| oskuro wrote: | | But if u download mp3s, dvd-screeners, etc... if its for your own use, its legal, at least here in spain |
No it's not legal - it's covered by EU Anti-Piracy laws. |
Well said Animal. And no, I don't download MP3s, games etc. without paying for them. I'm not rich either, but I beleive that if a software developer, or artist, spends time creating something, then you should pay for it, unless of course they are offering it for free. If more people paid for software, films and music, then they would ultimately become cheaper. MS software may be expensive, but it is the best, if it's not then why pirate it?
Piracy is a selfish act, anyone who does it deserves to get caught. | oskuro wrote: |
| I just download some music, software not many, cause im a programmer, and i only need some specific programs, and yes i know how hard is to make code, really |
But this is absolutely no excuse. You say that you're a programmer and that gives you the right to pirate software? NOTHING gives you the right to pirate anything.
As a programmer, you should realise that this is wrong. How would you feel if you invested a lot of your own time, money and effort to create a new program then tried to sell it to make a small profit and you found out that hundreds and thousands of people were getting it for free? You would be getting no money out of it - I guess you'd be pretty mad. This is the same for Microsoft - the fact they are a big company making a lot of money makes no difference. They started as a small operation, working hard on software to make a small profit.
Also, the links you provided - who made them? The EU Anti-Piracy board? I don't think so. Try going into a Police station and telling them what mp3s, films and software you illegally downloaded and see how easy it is for them to give you a test to check if you're a pirate.
I'm sorry, but people like you who illegally download files deserve to be sued. And arrested.Let's be fair:
Real stealing is different from piracy.
With real stealing, the person you steal from loses something.
However with piracy instead of open-source, everyone gains except the open-source community. That's right. Also Microsoft.
Consider this:
If you have an illegal copy of Windows, you STILL have a copy of Windows, so Microsoft gains market share. So if you ever start developing software, you will probably do it for Windows. So Microsoft Windows gains strength, as more software is available for their OS.
If you use Linux however, Microsoft doesn't get a single buck either, but your future software will be optimized for Linux. Linux gains strength, Microsoft loses strength.
So I'm sure Microsoft wants people to use pirated copies of Windows rather then Linux.
So the only thing left is the law:
But does any of you know the law in Nepal?
Exactly.
Maybe there isn't anything about this in their law at all.
Only disadvantage is that you aren't supporting the open-source community this way, but you are supporting it even less by buying Windows.
| Animal wrote: |
| oskuro wrote: | | I just download some music, software not many, cause im a programmer, and i only need some specific programs, and yes i know how hard is to make code, really |
But this is absolutely no excuse. You say that you're a programmer and that gives you the right to pirate software? NOTHING gives you the right to pirate anything.
As a programmer, you should realise that this is wrong. How would you feel if you invested a lot of your own time, money and effort to create a new program then tried to sell it to make a small profit and you found out that hundreds and thousands of people were getting it for free? You would be getting no money out of it - I guess you'd be pretty mad. This is the same for Microsoft - the fact they are a big company making a lot of money makes no difference. They started as a small operation, working hard on software to make a small profit.
Also, the links you provided - who made them? The EU Anti-Piracy board? I don't think so. Try going into a Police station and telling them what mp3s, films and software you illegally downloaded and see how easy it is for them to give you a test to check if you're a pirate.
I'm sorry, but people like you who illegally download files deserve to be sued. And arrested. |
Those links are FACTS here in spain.
There has been MANY PUBLIC manifestations, going into SGAE´S offices, and in the front door, with a laptop(portatil pc or whatever its called), and telling police before about they were going to download music and films there, they did, and no one said anything.
POLICE CAN DO N-O-T-H-I-N-G unless u make profit of those downloads, so u can go to wherever u want here in spain, call police, swat, or whoever u want, and they will do nothing, cause they cant.
PRIVATE USE it´s legal here in spain, if u dont live here dont say anything about that, cause here private use it´s legal, and law cant do NOTHING.
yeah, people like me, who just download anime, films to watch em 1 time and erase, and software(maybe less than 5 programs a year), should be arrested yeah.... i will have to learn from you, a very honest citizen who never downloaded anything
I dont want to make any discussion about this, its just the fact that here it´s legal, software of course not, but i am not downloading 999999 programs a year, as i said, i just download 5 or less a year, and between those 5, i buy the one i really like/need. I never said that like im a programmer, that give me the right to download sw, so dont invent
And adding, the most i download, mainly, are mp3 and films, just that, forget about software, and here, in spain, i repeat again for 99999 time, it´s LEGAL.
So please, stop sending me to prison.... or if u going to, prepare the moon, mars, jupiter.... cause there wont be physicall space to put us all in jail.
Maybe where u leave its a pirate act downloading mp3, films, and they send people to jail and torture them, and burn them or whatever, but not here, so please dont generalize, law is not the same in every country, get informed before talking, all the info in the links i put, are veridic, and its in the law of the country, so....
It´s very nice to say here no one downloads nothing and everybody is a good citizen, go every sunday to pray, etc.... but the reality in many cases is another.
Bye bye, im not angry really, just saying this, because i think u dont know how is the law here in SPAIN and i wanted to inform u.
Cya.but what if you wouldn't "steal" his car, TV and hi-fi. What if you could copy it? I often hear the arguments "you wouldn't steal someones car", but if i could copy a brand-new state-of-the-art BMW with one mouseclick ,i´d do it. Of course, piracy isn't okay if someone is poor. But let's look at the facts. People wouldn't buy the software anyway if it weren't pirated. Like my version of GTA, i wouldn't ever have bought the game, but because i found it for free i played for a week or two. So it doesn't count that much...
I think law enforcement should focus their attention to the real criminals, to the rapists and murderes instead of chasing after those who copy computer-data "illegally".
A person I know from the internet always said this when piracy was the topic(NOTE: This is paraphrased. His name has been changed to Mister X for the purposes of this quote.):
| Mister X wrote: |
| I'm not pirating software. I'm downloading pirated software, and thus, I am not committing piracy. |
This is not what he said, but I believe that is what he said. If I find the quote I'll edit this post and tag it on the bottom. I say in terms of software, try it out, and then pay if the software is good. I have aquired many things off the internet which would be pirated but the fact is, alot of the products arent even sold in my country and i don't see trial periods on software such as visual studio .net. I wouldnt buy that product without trying it first and for somone who doesnt have access to that the only way to try it out is to get it illegally. If I'm happy with a software, I will pay for it.
Piracy is wrong. What really bugs me is when I save up a few hundred dollars for some software, working hard for it (okay, actually it's birthdays) and then some kid asks me what I think of the software and he just downloads it for free! What an idiot!
I've programmed a few things and I no that even a small program is well over 5,000 lines of code, and each line must be painstakingly debugged and tested. That takes time out of my life, and for people doing that for a living, those who just download it without paying is terrible. They are downloading someone's hours and hours of work like it was nothing, claiming, they'll never know the difference, or everyone else is doing it, or I wouldn't have enough money to pay for it anyway so the difference is the same.
I could go on for pages ranting about those idiots. 
Not being able to afford a professional software is no excuse to break the law. Piracy is against the law. Just imagine yourself in th eplace of the software developers. Pirated copies of it circulating around... and you don't get what you put in your hard work for... If you can't afford it, go for an alternative...
There are always free alternatives to whatever software you need. Opensource software are available for almost anything you look for... You could switch to Linux instead of using Windows. It is not that hard to make the switch once you get the hang of it. Just search the web for any software you need... You can get a free or opensource version....
i use pirated soft, because i am not able to afford legal one. so what i have to do? sit with linux and use paint? no way... i able to use this soft, so i use. when someone will give me legal soft, or i will be able to efford it, i will use it. but still i am a student, i don't think about legal soft. democraty is all over the world, so why we cant use pirated soft? and why we should use. the only purpose i can see is - support from these companies. but if you want upgrade your version, they simple says - buy it. like me and my friend says, no money, no problem. so feel free of using piprated soft...
| megamass wrote: |
| i use pirated soft, because i am not able to afford legal one. so what i have to do? sit with linux and use paint? no way... i able to use this soft, so i use. when someone will give me legal soft, or i will be able to efford it, i will use it. but still i am a student, i don't think about legal soft. democraty is all over the world, so why we cant use pirated soft? and why we should use. the only purpose i can see is - support from these companies. but if you want upgrade your version, they simple says - buy it. like me and my friend says, no money, no problem. so feel free of using piprated soft... |
Every line of code a programmer puts his sweat and blood into, tediously debugging and fixing code for an end product. Those who write free software, some rivaling professional products, are not bothered by that. Other than supporting the company and showing you truely like that company, buying software shows that you care about how much work that programmer has put into it.I search the net and do my best to get free softwares. I live in India. The problem is its extremly hard to get original softwares here other than downloading from net and money transfer from here is not safe.
There is NO debate over this topic.
Pirating software is illegal, and out of discussion. One might offer just as the original offer did, some low priced copies of the software but that's left to the company's decision.
The fact that there's no debate does NOT mean that there is no solution. There is a beautiful, yet unexplored solution to this problem: "Free software". Free software comes in every flavor, operating systems, and all types of end user software.
GNU/Linux, Open Solaris etc. are the operating systems you can use, and there are different types of distributions for skilled users to non-skilled ones.
For office like applications there is OpenOffice.org,say, for DC++ there is vankutta, and for many other applications there is an open source (and free) solution.
I would be willing to help any user that wants to switch to free software.
Well i agree, downloading software is illegal, what im very surprised, is that here everyone that defends it, seems to NEVER have downloaded any mp3,dvd-screener, dont have sat channels decripted illegally..... wow, very honest people??Hmmmmm It seems to me that people fall in to one of the following groups, those who think:
1) Piracy is illegal, and should not be tollerated
2) Piracy is OK, download anything even though it is illegal it causes no harm
3) Piracy is OK if you can't afford the software
4) Piracy is OK to try software so long as you buy anything you find useful.
Whilst I firmly sit in the No 1 camp, I can understand the views of No 4 though. I think this brings an interesting angle that non-open source software manufacturers should consider. Software is expensive, and most people who buy software do so after recommendations, reading reviews etc., but there is nothing like actually trying the software. I beleive more software companies should put thier money where their mouth is and offer fully funcional free trials of there software that they can use for at least a month, after which time the product must be activated and paid for for it to continue to work.
Everyone says illegal soft is devil, but i gues they also have illegal soft, more or less of it. and they enjoyed using it when they got it. i see no problem with pirating. if have a chance to get something cheaper - use that chance. internet is full of illegal soft, so what? should we ban internet?
You guys are sick.
Illegalware
You will download every type of software you can get your hands on as long as you save yourself a good 500 dollars your happy.
Lets see you have stolen windows (150 dollars) you have stolen ms Office (140 dollars) just for those too you have stolen 290dollars.
Ok, You have just stolen 290 dollars behind peoples back. Now take that public. Goto a bank and useing a gun hold it up for 290 dollars. You would be arrested. Just because the police don't know you stole 290 dollars to get this software you are still commiting a illegal act.
As mentioned before there is no excuse.
Darwin is free.
Darwin is a type of linux so you can get a type of Linux you like for free.
Should their be low price software for poor contries
No, Their should not be low priced software this would distroy companies. For people like you who like to get the most out of their money they would have the cheap software imported so they wouldn't have to spend so much.
Here is a good example. You live in Hadi. A poor country. Windows there cost 30 dollars. Windows here in the US cost 150 dollars. Lets say I want to buy the new windows would I buy it here for 150 or buy it there for 30 and pay probably 45 dollars shipping. Hmm, I just paid 75 dollars for software I would have to pay 150 dollars. Though microsoft just lost 120 dollars of the deal. Opps. Do that about 1000 times and microsoft is going down hill. (remember Microsoft isn't rich the president bill gates is not the company.)
| izcool wrote: |
I know that it may be easy for people to suggest to use alternative software titles in order to not be breaking the laws, but it's not actually a piece of cake for someone to sacrafice losing all that they know about Windows and make a huge jump over to Linux. Come on people. It's easier said than done, and I'm guessing that the author of this thread isn't even budging to make the switch. Simply just my opinion, and I'm sure there are a couple of people reading who can agree with me. I know that the free stuff is out there, but many times it contains advertisements and sponsor programs to make them free. If you download the free version of Adobe's Reader, there is a small advertisement embedded within the program, just an example off of the top.
- Mike. |
the problem is that if they don't even have a OS, how can that search online of all these freeware? | Quote: |
No, Their should not be low priced software this would distroy companies. For people like you who like to get the most out of their money they would have the cheap software imported so they wouldn't have to spend so much.
Here is a good example. You live in Hadi. A poor country. Windows there cost 30 dollars. Windows here in the US cost 150 dollars. Lets say I want to buy the new windows would I buy it here for 150 or buy it there for 30 and pay probably 45 dollars shipping. Hmm, I just paid 75 dollars for software I would have to pay 150 dollars. Though microsoft just lost 120 dollars of the deal. Opps. Do that about 1000 times and microsoft is going down hill. (remember Microsoft isn't rich the president bill gates is not the company.) |
There is still Ballmer and other executives who make a killing, though they don't have as much. A marketing strategy that microsoft used for the xBox 360 actually makes them go down in profit, but they gain it back with the games.
If any of you know sweedish, or can use a sweedish online translator, please feel free to discuss this at a place of real pirates with motives and reasoning they would be happy to share at http://piratbyran.org | megamass wrote: |
| i use pirated soft, because i am not able to afford legal one. so what i have to do? sit with linux and use paint? no way... i able to use this soft, so i use. when someone will give me legal soft, or i will be able to efford it, i will use it. but still i am a student, i don't think about legal soft. democraty is all over the world, so why we cant use pirated soft? and why we should use. the only purpose i can see is - support from these companies. but if you want upgrade your version, they simple says - buy it. like me and my friend says, no money, no problem. so feel free of using piprated soft... |
What do you mean sit with linux and use paint? Linux is a full-fledged operating system, that you can do in linux whatever you can do in Windows? Play games? Programming? Web Surfing? Graphics? Music or Video?...... What do you want ot do? It's all possible in Linux!!
Whether you are working on Linux or Windows or whatever operating system you can get your hands on, free or opensource softwares are always available for whatever you want to do.. Of course, you might have to make a few sacrifices like a few ads in some cases... But that is no excuse to use pirated software.yeah i totaly agree that piracy is completly wrong but for linux most of the programs that are free wont work on it as most are made for windows
Luxury cars: what if we can't afford legal ones
The solution: take them for free by force, against the manufacturer's will?
That is the essence of the discussion. If something is too expensive for you to buy, do you have the moral right to illegaly take it for free?
Piracy is wrong and immoral and illegal! You can get arrested if found buying pirated software! If you cannot afford it, use other alternatives. If there's no other alternatives, save up bit by bit and eventually you'll get the money! Adobe has programmed its software such that you need to activate it so they'll check if you used pirated software. And just because the makers of the software are rich doesn't mean you can buy pirated copies of their software! When I went to china, you can see stands selling pirated software at very cheap prices. Most of these stands are in crowded shopping alleys. Here in singapore, piracy is a very serious offence. A few years back, a saw 2 people selling pirated DVDs in a shopping in their mid 20s and almost got caught by policemen. One guy was the lookout while the other sold the DVDs. They ran away after seeing the policemen. Here's my last sentence: PIRACY IS WRONG! DON'T DO IT! FREEDOM IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY!
If you can't afford it, steal it? Okay...but I don't think we need to talk about this on Frihost. You can do what you want, but there are consequences to your actions. I wouldn't do it. Plus, if you really liked the software you're using, you would support it.
I agree that the author of this thread COULD use linux, but it still isn't right for Microsoft to jack prices up like that simply because it knows that there is no serious competition to price battle with.
But back to linux, say he did try to install and run linux...lets see so he installs that...if he is lucky enough to know how to do so. But assuming he gets it installed, he has to make the switch from just double clicking on an auto install icon on his desktop to running the tarball deal (if he is lucky enough to get a version of linux that can unpack and install tarballs easily).
If we were the developing country and say that for us, the $150 it costs to get MSMCE was our monthly or heck even weekly salary, would you seriously give up everything you need for that period of time simply so you can run an operating system? I think not. Personally, i have a job, and I only make about 40-60 dollars/week if im lucky, so i know how it is to have no money when you need it for something. Fortunatly i have the luxury of being in college where either everything is paid for or gets paid for by my parents. So not using that earned money isn't as detrimental, however, it still means sacrifices. For instance, im building a new computer now that took me nears 3 months to save up for on my salary, during this time i havent been able to go to the movies, eat out, go bowling, go to plays, tech conferences, concerts or anything else that i may have wanted to do, heck I have even taken to my bicycle recently because i can't afford the gas anymore (then again who can at almost $3/gallon for regular). This is all so that i can build a basic machine since my current one is now beginning to show its age repeatedly...Now, on this machine i am also fortunate enough to know my way around linux pretty decently well so i have the luxury of not having to pay for MSMCE, but i almost had to before i found out there were Media Center apps for linux that were free.
Long story short, I too dont condone piracy in places like the US, UK, and Canada (sorry if there are other places i just dont know about) that have laws againts such things as piracy and all the other bad things you can do on the internet, however, in countries that dont have these laws in place it is up for the individual to decide whether to pirate or not, and they risk only getting a virus from a bad copy.
::EDIT:: i stress the point that it is not ILLEGAL unless you live in a country where these laws are prevelant, at that point i think it may just be imoral...
| oskuro wrote: |
Those links are FACTS here in spain.
There has been MANY PUBLIC manifestations, going into SGAE´S offices, and in the front door, with a laptop(portatil pc or whatever its called), and telling police before about they were going to download music and films there, they did, and no one said anything.
POLICE CAN DO N-O-T-H-I-N-G unless u make profit of those downloads, so u can go to wherever u want here in spain, call police, swat, or whoever u want, and they will do nothing, cause they cant.
PRIVATE USE it´s legal here in spain, if u dont live here dont say anything about that, cause here private use it´s legal, and law cant do NOTHING.
|
so good... Singapore used to be liddat, but recently it has changed to illegal to download "substantial" amount of music even for personal use, altho substantial isn't really defined... i dun use pirated windows coz heard mani pple say can't update with pirated windows due to WGA. I use alternative like open source if i dont want to pay. I was actually tempted to use pirated, but decided not to, coz the piracy laws on softwares are real tight. So I think that it is not really wrong to buy pirated softwares in countries with less strict piracy laws. I don't know abt the pple in other countries, but the pple in sg has some sort of policy that you can do anything, but as long as you don't get caught.
| Xeniczone wrote: |
Here is a good example. You live in Hadi. A poor country. Windows there cost 30 dollars. Windows here in the US cost 150 dollars. Lets say I want to buy the new windows would I buy it here for 150 or buy it there for 30 and pay probably 45 dollars shipping. Hmm, I just paid 75 dollars for software I would have to pay 150 dollars. Though microsoft just lost 120 dollars of the deal. Opps. Do that about 1000 times and microsoft is going down hill. (remember Microsoft isn't rich the president bill gates is not the company.) |
im sure a huge company Windows will shut down juz bcoz it has lowered the price a bit. How much isit earning per year??? also, the number of customers in poorer countries would not be as much, so they prolly would'nt lose much... It is earning a lot, due to its monopoly in operating system.Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx4crXwRTYQ
That´s what i think about downloading music, well, at least here in spain for private use, we can do it.
But that video, is a real fact, i love south park Wow, that was a long debate. In the end Piracy is wrong but people still do it because it's easy to break this law as people usually don't get caught. It's virtually impossible to track down people using pirated software. Yes software it turns out to be much much more expensive than buying a computer. It's not only operating system, there are many other programs which are more costly that the operating system.
I'm currently using MEPIS linux, It's not only easy to install Linux but it comes packed with software. Just install the operating system and you're done. Office suite, picture editor, video editor, tv application, games everything included. The developer's site is updated with packages that you might need and other packages that were not included. It does need getting used to as you need to read manuals to configure your system. Once the system is configured, it's rock solid. 
| saiyeek wrote: |
I am sorry to tell but it is true, every versions of my windows programs are pirated. I don't think i have ever used windows versions original or any other costly software paying price. I live in Nepal, one of developing countries of the world. Our per capita income is 240USD thats too small amount. If I ever had to pay for the softwares I wanted to use, till now it will amount many times of my yearly expenditure. Many of my countrymen use pirated softwares. Pirated software are found here are there in the market. I recently bought Windows XP Media Center Edition with 0.5 dollar, so cheap, its was pirated but it works fine and for me piracy has been only way i have been getting the softwares.
I think there should be LOW PRICE EDITION of the softwares for the people of he countries like mine, so as to lower down the piracy. |
I agree! Sure, my macromedia and adobe products are cracked because I want to make decent graphics and websites but I don't have $2000 to spend on computer software. People like Adobe are scammers. Look at CS Premium edition, its over $1000.
And the other day I nearly fainted when I found out the MS development team suite is over $7000!
The prices of software is getting out of hand, if Adobe would lower the prices of its software maybe people like me wouldn't have to turn to piracy.
Welliottdude,Well, to conclude, pirated software is for the poor (that's me)
I can't really afford to spend much on a geuine piece of software, so had to turn to those warez. But there is only one obvious problem : Most of them contains some soft of spyware, adware or even virus. And I had to live with it... 
| exarkun wrote: |
Well, to conclude, pirated software is for the poor (that's me)
I can't really afford to spend much on a geuine piece of software, so had to turn to those warez. But there is only one obvious problem : Most of them contains some soft of spyware, adware or even virus. And I had to live with it... |
That's no more than you deserve. Using an argument like "I can't afford it, so it's ok to steal" would really only work if you were talking about bread. By putting in did you think you would get sympathy? You deserve no sympathy and as many viruses that have ever been written.
Software is a non-essential commodity, and if you can't afford commercial versions of a product, use a free (open source) equivalent. You are poor, therefore it's ok for you to be a criminal? I don't think so!i agree with Animal on this one. I used to be part of the group using warez, but now i'm not really seeing the point of it. I do agree however that some programs are a little expensive for kids who would learn better at their age with a program then some older people could. Now, i use open source, because it's more fun . Photoshop for example. using Gimp (open source equivilant almost) you can do pretty much everything photoshop can. And the fact that you did it with something $600 dollars cheaper and less extensive makes the glory better. Also, learning to work with a lower end program can make you tons better when you can actually afford the commercial program and possibly use it for a career. I'm not saying pirating is right or wrong, i'm just saying to look at what you can do without pullling the illegal strings. | Quote: |
| im sure a huge company Windows will shut down juz bcoz it has lowered the price a bit. How much isit earning per year??? also, the number of customers in poorer countries would not be as much, so they prolly would'nt lose much... It is earning a lot, due to its monopoly in operating system. |
Off course. You charge 150 to 200 dollars for you software to say in business. Microsoft sells to hati for 10 dollars (no really just a sinario). every hears about this and starts having it imported to save money. everytime someone Imports or buys one microsoft has lost 140-190 dollars lets say 10 dollars for the home and 20 for the pro. so microsoft losses 140 on home and 180 on pro. do that 1000 time. microsoft losses 140,000 - 180,000. That is a lot to loss. And 1000 times is about the number of times it will happen in a small city. make it a big city like new york it will happen about 5,000 times and with about 30,000 city (guess) in a state and 50 states = 1,500,000 times 140 = 210,000,000.
210 million is a lot to lose. (pretending this happens with windows vista and it's home edition is 150 dollars and 10 dollars in hati or some poor country.
bill gates is a billionare. this is only counting windows people would do it for microsoft office and microsoft games and that could add up to about 1 billion some odd dollars. That is enough to set any company out of business. and if billy is losing that much money on his company then what do you think he is going to do let is happen and say i just lost a billion dollars or shut down the company and start a new one gain all the profet back and on you go. | saiyeek wrote: |
I am sorry to tell but it is true, every versions of my windows programs are pirated. I don't think i have ever used windows versions original or any other costly software paying price. I live in Nepal, one of developing countries of the world. Our per capita income is 240USD thats too small amount. If I ever had to pay for the softwares I wanted to use, till now it will amount many times of my yearly expenditure. Many of my countrymen use pirated softwares. Pirated software are found here are there in the market. I recently bought Windows XP Media Center Edition with 0.5 dollar, so cheap, its was pirated but it works fine and for me piracy has been only way i have been getting the softwares.
I think there should be LOW PRICE EDITION of the softwares for the people of he countries like mine, so as to lower down the piracy. |
Er... I don't like the sound of a "Low Price Edition"...
It could be a full-version of Windows except you get an ad to buy the Full Version every 10 minutes... | Xeniczone wrote: |
| Quote: | | im sure a huge company Windows will shut down juz bcoz it has lowered the price a bit. How much isit earning per year??? also, the number of customers in poorer countries would not be as much, so they prolly would'nt lose much... It is earning a lot, due to its monopoly in operating system. |
Off course. You charge 150 to 200 dollars for you software to say in business. Microsoft sells to hati for 10 dollars (no really just a sinario). every hears about this and starts having it imported to save money. everytime someone Imports or buys one microsoft has lost 140-190 dollars lets say 10 dollars for the home and 20 for the pro. so microsoft losses 140 on home and 180 on pro. do that 1000 time. microsoft losses 140,000 - 180,000. That is a lot to loss. And 1000 times is about the number of times it will happen in a small city. make it a big city like new york it will happen about 5,000 times and with about 30,000 city (guess) in a state and 50 states = 1,500,000 times 140 = 210,000,000.
210 million is a lot to lose. (pretending this happens with windows vista and it's home edition is 150 dollars and 10 dollars in hati or some poor country.
bill gates is a billionare. this is only counting windows people would do it for microsoft office and microsoft games and that could add up to about 1 billion some odd dollars. That is enough to set any company out of business. and if billy is losing that much money on his company then what do you think he is going to do let is happen and say i just lost a billion dollars or shut down the company and start a new one gain all the profet back and on you go. |
That will not happen. Getting a software package imported from a poor country is a lot harder then just getting an illegal version. And, those software packages are going to be illegal in rich countries. Also they can easily do an IP check to see where you are from. So there is no advantage in importing one over getting an illegal version. So noone will do it. End of story. | Stubru Freak wrote: |
| That will not happen. Getting a software package imported from a poor country is a lot harder then just getting an illegal version. And, those software packages are going to be illegal in rich countries. Also they can easily do an IP check to see where you are from. So there is no advantage in importing one over getting an illegal version. So noone will do it. End of story. |
Actually, I will disagree with this. It might be hard, but if a company with (say) 10,000 computers needs new copies of Windows, Office etc. this "difficult" task would save them several hundred thousand dollars. To any company, a saving like that would be worth virtually any level of difficulty.
The problem with reduced pricing is not based on the consumer market - the losses and savings would be negligible in terms of a company the size of Microsoft. In large business, it would cost these companies huge amounts of money. It would not be possible to sell the same product at different prices depending on whether it's for home use or large business use, so it won't happen.
Microsoft are trying to introduce this kind of product (eg. Microsoft Windows XP Starter Edition) for developing countries, but lots and lots of features have been removed from the OS to stop business users buying the software. | Animal wrote: |
| Stubru Freak wrote: | | That will not happen. Getting a software package imported from a poor country is a lot harder then just getting an illegal version. And, those software packages are going to be illegal in rich countries. Also they can easily do an IP check to see where you are from. So there is no advantage in importing one over getting an illegal version. So noone will do it. End of story. |
Actually, I will disagree with this. It might be hard, but if a company with (say) 10,000 computers needs new copies of Windows, Office etc. this "difficult" task would save them several hundred thousand dollars. To any company, a saving like that would be worth virtually any level of difficulty.
The problem with reduced pricing is not based on the consumer market - the losses and savings would be negligible in terms of a company the size of Microsoft. In large business, it would cost these companies huge amounts of money. It would not be possible to sell the same product at different prices depending on whether it's for home use or large business use, so it won't happen.
Microsoft are trying to introduce this kind of product (eg. Microsoft Windows XP Starter Edition) for developing countries, but lots and lots of features have been removed from the OS to stop business users buying the software. |
You mean companies in developing countries? Because if a company in a rich country that isn't allowed to use it uses it, it's just as easy for them to use pirated software. | Stubru Freak wrote: |
| You mean companies in developing countries? Because if a company in a rich country that isn't allowed to use it uses it, it's just as easy for them to use pirated software. |
No, I mean companies in the US for example. Microsoft cannot dictate laws - they can not therefore make it illegal for a US company to use software it made with the developing market in mind.
The point I'm making is that if a US company can save, say, $500,000 by buying software from abroad, they will. This is why Microsoft do not charge different amounts of money for the same product depending on the company it is sold in. | Animal wrote: |
| Stubru Freak wrote: | | You mean companies in developing countries? Because if a company in a rich country that isn't allowed to use it uses it, it's just as easy for them to use pirated software. |
No, I mean companies in the US for example. Microsoft cannot dictate laws - they can not therefore make it illegal for a US company to use software it made with the developing market in mind. |
Can't they? If they put it in their license agreement, isn't it official? | Stubru Freak wrote: |
| Can't they? If they put it in their license agreement, isn't it official? |
There's a difference between a license agreement and the law. There are also competition laws in many countries, and these would probably void the license agreements in many cases.I agree there should be a cheaper version of the software. Just to give different choices. Which some of the software companies do sell they software in different version like for student, personal or non-commercial