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God a superstition?






Do you believe God is a superstition?
Yes, I believe it to be so.
34%
 34%  [ 32 ]
No, I have faith in the existence of God.
53%
 53%  [ 49 ]
I'm confused.
11%
 11%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 92

Carupieara
How many of you here believe that God is by far the biggest superstition of all?


Updated to include poll.
Lennon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That was a good opportunity for a poll... Soulfire, here's your fave...

Superstition is in itself irrational (try use a better word like "biggest lie" or "biggest misconception" or just "the biggest waste of space" )

If superstition is what you intended then I'd say superstition is more irrational than a belief in a God...

The first place to look is Intelligent Design,
reading the signs may(not) suggest a God to you.

Then look at religion
which religions are preaching nonsense or truth? or elements of the truth?

for me, reading the signs of nature as a scientist can only indicate Intelligent Design.

A God is non-existent in our universe. He/She has no physical energy or he would be considered part of the universe. He/She has no biology and no body, no Gender, is non-human. God cannot be defined, just as the origin of the universe, t=0 cannot be defined. The source of life, light, the universe, and God are all undefined. So if there was nothing in the beginning, then there was also no God. However, even after the expansion of the universe a God cannot exist. Human emotions like love, pleasure, sadness can all be defined by brain-neuron activity. A Devil can be explained by negative unconciousness (stimulation of bad thoughts in the specific-region neurons). A God could be explained by the positive unconciousness (stimulation of good thoughts in the same Cortex region or otherwise).

The origin of the universe and god cannot be explained or defined. Yet the universe comes into existence, just as God is really the cause of it's existence. Just impossible to prove both.

A God cannot be reasoned with.


Blind faith In God, evolution or other theories must be taken to explain the mysterious, reasoned faith for the explained (reasoned faith like we all believe in elephant’s existence)


Try the evolution vs creation poll with this link
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-24268.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ainieas
I always saw God as like something people hold on to when they have grown up and feel the need of their parents. Most probably it is one of the principal reasons why God was created.
adwya
iam muslim

i believe in God

no God but Allah
MalvagioAddict
Well, i'm a catholic so i was brought up believing that there is a god. I mean if you look around us, you'd probably see a semblance of order in most anything, so that suggests a higher power, so even if you believe that God is superstition you'd have to admit that it's quite impossible for things to work the way it does if it doesn't suggest order.

I guess the fact that He isn't seen is considered a belief or mere superstition, that's where faith comes in, believing in something even if it's isn't exactly visible.
carlokes
All my life i was raised in a Cristian enviroment surrounded by people that believe in God (but not fanatics !!) and i attended for 12 years a catholic school. However, I have to say that right now I don't believe in God anymore. Everyone knows that the bible was ordered to be written by a man (King Constatine) and that everything that is written in it is a research made on that era and of people that lived with or witnessed the action of a man called Jesus.

Please I don't want by any means to offend anyone so I'll be as polite as possible in my post.

Are there things that are hard to explain and are easly justified with religion ? My answer is yes. Should we do it (justify those things with religion) ? My answer is no. I think that nowadays everyone is so brainwashed by religion that things that supposely are not related with religion, are immediately explained by an act of God or a miracle.

Is God a superstition ? I don't think so. Is the existence of God a personal believe motivated by some reason. My answer is yes.

To sum up I must say that in my opinium to believe in God and keep the faith is something that i admire in all the believers that i cross my path with because even with all the problems that exist all over the world they keep believing in a merciful God.
essentialmedia
God and/or religion is a toll used by weak minded individuals who are looking for something "greater in life" and cannot accept the fact that life is what it is. They need to find a higher "purpose" for their pathetic existence. Really all one has to do is just live each day the best as they can and you can find all the strength you need inside yourself.

Religion is for the weak and it teaches, bigotry, hatred, and violence. 100% of all wars are based on religious differences. The bible is the greatest piece of fiction story telling ever written. And Jesus was probably just a very insane man wandering around (homeless I might add). These days if you wander around homeless and call yourself the son of god, we commit you.

Shane
TheFaction
i dont know how i feel about the topic. i have never been to church cept for as its seemed, a funeral mass. and then i see the church channel and the way some people act about it im like what is going on?

to me it just seems so weird. like some people seem to be engulfed with the thought of God. like i respect those that do believe. just idk if i really believe it
Tasukii
Religion is a supertision
Srs2388
I do believe in God I have faith in God
a Christian faith over it all... however, I do not believe in supersitions I think there are so many polls on this subject too... the results (to me)
are really dissapointing I thought more people believed in God
Soulfire
In the year 2000, 76.5% of America was christian (some form or another). And 13.2% were nonreligious.

My pastor always tells me, a man has nothing but his faith and a bible. That is the entire test - to see if you believe in God without seeing Him directly, even though He is present in everyday life.

He doesn't want to force you to believe in Him, He wants you to choose to believe in Him.

Some things just cannot be explained, some things are beyond humans. We like to think we know everything about the world and how it works, but the fact is we don't. There is no more proof for the theory of evolution than the theory of God, and people just choose evolution because they try and twist the pieces to fit.

If you aren't Christian, it's your loss, but I can't force you - God wants you to choose (as I said earlier).
Lennon
There are certain books in the bible scholars have classified as fictional to exaggerate the influence of God on the good and bad. But it is certainly not all fictional.
There are historical records in roman history of a man named Jesus who was caused trouble in the roman province of Judea. There was indeed a reign of pontius pilate, and a census was held also around 4 B.C. by the Emporer caesar augustus. Since the dead sea scrolls are very similar to the stories of the bible, and carbon dating references well before the reign of Emporer Constantine, then the bible writings were written officially around the right time. There was officially also a man named Mohammed who lived around 400 A.D. (I may be erred on the date).
The gospel of mark is the most accurate according to historians findings, with significant correspondence with roman documents.

Sorry, but the Bible has some weight as an artefact of ancient history...
mike4652
Nothing in known history has been challenged or disputed as much as God, Jesus, and the Bible. If it is all fiction, why is it so challenged ?
If God doesn't exist, Why do so many people get upset at the very mention of the name GOD ?
When ever we fail to understand something then it is so easy to say that it isn't real. or it is just a myth. We know for a fact that people, places and events that the Bible has recorded in it are real. The time span that the Bible covers and the events that it tells about hold too many known facts to be fiction.
We have a choice that we can accept or reject God and it doesn't change the fact that God is real. One can choose to believe that fire isn't hot, but it will still burn you if you touch it.
mike4652
Quote:
the bible was ordered to be written by a man

What about the dead sea scrolls?
They were discovered in the spring of 1947 in a cave,
They are a collection of ancent Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts and fragments of manuscripts. Over 1/3 of these documents are books of the Old Testment. Not to mention that the complete book of Isaiah was one of them.
The span of time that the Bible covers is far to complex to be fiction.
Not to mention it has withstood the test of time.
It is the inspired word of God.
jaysen
I believe there is a god... but i don't believe in the bible.

The bible, may be a good point of reference overall but nothing more.
The bible says that if i don't believe in god, i will be cast away for eternity into a lake of fire.... mmmkay... simply for not believe he exists? I can live my whole life to be the best person i can be, but im its worth nothing because the "the big guy" is so egotistical that he will punish me forever for not believing? Sorry i can't believe that god would stoop to that... i believe he'd be a little more understanding and above having an ego of godly proportions... besides, if he wanted me to believe hes there... he knows how to do it.

People act differently when they know thier being watched. If God lets us know that we are being watched, then obviously we would act differently to please him... but thats not what he wants. He wants us to be ourselves... he wants to see who we truly are.
candycakes
I don't believe you can call God itself a superstition. A superstition by definition is an irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome. While some may argue that this indeed qualifies Christianity as a superstition, there are many different views on which to look upon this subject.

God does not control our every decision, thought, or action, contrary to popular belief. Christianity is a faith in which people rely on themselves and their faith in God to accomplish their goals, or pull through hardships. Perhaps it was created by some poor person who had nothing to hold on to, such as the native indians did when describing the creation of earth, or the occurence of volcanoes. Every ethnicity has its own way of explaining things.

I was and still am brought up as a Christian. That doesn't mean that I sometimes don't question my faith. It happens all the time. You read things like the Da Vinci Code, and it tears down your faith, and shakes religion's very roots. It causes you to doubt many things. Yet at the same time, things you read in the bible cannot be undeniably false. Look at your conscience for example. Where do you think that came from?

These are my views, but at the same time I cannot really express myself, and decide for myself what I really believe. Perhaps I still need to go out and see the world for myself. Sometimes I look around us at the world today, and wonder why it is that God still allows things like war, and deaths to happen. My best friend's dad is days away from dieing of cancer and he has the strongest faith in God than anybody else I've ever seen. Even in times like these, he still holds on. Yet I cannot fully believe that there is no God. There are so many unexplained questions.

Sorry for blabbing xD Embarassed
NobodiesHero
In my humble opinion God cannot be a superstition because I have experienced him. And before you think I am one of the crazy nuts that go around and talk weird, let me explain.
I am just a normal guy who hasn't seen anything that usually is refered to as a miracle (no blinding lights, no healing of people, no voice of God talking to me). But still I know I have felt the presence of God more than once in my life. These moments were nothing really special and the things that happened to me you can easily dismiss as unimportant and chance. But I know that God was there in these moments as surely as I was there. I don't have any prove and I am not trying to convince anybody to believe me, but if you open yourself to God you will find him.
I mean that is what believing is all about, trusting in God without needing a prove other than what your heart says.

No matter if you accept that there is God or if you think this is complete bullshit. God cares for you anyway. Because it is his decision, not yours.

Seek and you will find.
ainieas
Soulfire wrote:
If you aren't Christian, it's your loss, but I can't force you - God wants you to choose (as I said earlier).


I like how you point towards the belief that only Christians go to Heaven. Wonder what kind of Hell there is for the rest 67% of the world. Rolling Eyes

mike4652 wrote:
If God doesn't exist, Why do so many people get upset at the very mention of the name GOD?


If they admit to heresy (according to them) their whole concept of faith will fall apart. So people are very touchy about this subject.
Lennon
To some God is pure nonsense, to some others it is the very meaning of life..
Even the flying spaghetti monster demands that we all convert before it's too late.
Soulfire
ainieas wrote:
Soulfire wrote:
If you aren't Christian, it's your loss, but I can't force you - God wants you to choose (as I said earlier).


I like how you point towards the belief that only Christians go to Heaven. Wonder what kind of Hell there is for the rest 67% of the world. Rolling Eyes

Those who die in a state of grace with God, go to Heaven. That is the belief, because that is what my religion is. My religion teaches that Christians go to Heaven, and they do! It's no different in the sense that Islam thinks all Muslims go to Heaven, why don't you yell at them for their beliefs?

The rest of the world is in trouble, and they know what comes of them, and they choose to reject God, God rejects them.
quixotic
The Bible is inspired by any God there might be, but he didn't write it. Men did. And men have a tendency to exaggerate, make things up, and twist stories around to suit their own goals. The Gospels are a very good example of that. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were all written for different audiences, so they contain slightly different characters (like the magi, more greeks and romans being converted, etc). Not saying the Bible is BS if God really exists, I'm just saying that it should be taken with a grain of salt and almost all literal details should be ignored.

Personally, I'm an agnostic, leaning towards a loose Christian. I've always followed the laws of love that Jesus set, because I believe that people of any religion should be full of love and forgiveness anyway. I'm just rather fuzzy on whether or not he was the son of God, or ANY god for that matter. Or whether or not the christian god exists.

I'm mostly a very scientific person, and I think the natural order of things can be explained easily by the fact that everything moves towards it's most stable form. That's how chemical reactions work. So of course things are going to naturally move towards order and the like.
Lennon
on a serious note.

a wasted life is one without purpose, without meaning, one which doesn't search for the answers

I truly believe that we must search for answers about our human nature, and the natural environment,,, and God... For only in our search for meaning will we find God and understand God. You must find the answers for yourself, nature provides the answers which I believe is Intelligent Design. Then follow the steps I mentioned earlier.
Recognise that there maybe a God out there. If you think there is a God, there are millions and billions of people out there who think there is, then you should consider what these other people believe, and search for the truth about this God.

Even if it's just a curiousity, openness is the key.

I've been lucky enough to be raised as a good Christian and even though I put a Question question Question about the existence of God, I'm now sure he's out there.
Soulfire
quixotic wrote:
The Bible is inspired by any God there might be, but he didn't write it. Men did. And men have a tendency to exaggerate, make things up, and twist stories around to suit their own goals. The Gospels are a very good example of that. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were all written for different audiences, so they contain slightly different characters (like the magi, more greeks and romans being converted, etc). Not saying the Bible is BS if God really exists, I'm just saying that it should be taken with a grain of salt and almost all literal details should be ignored.

Personally, I'm an agnostic, leaning towards a loose Christian. I've always followed the laws of love that Jesus set, because I believe that people of any religion should be full of love and forgiveness anyway. I'm just rather fuzzy on whether or not he was the son of God, or ANY god for that matter. Or whether or not the christian god exists.

I'm mostly a very scientific person, and I think the natural order of things can be explained easily by the fact that everything moves towards it's most stable form. That's how chemical reactions work. So of course things are going to naturally move towards order and the like.

Very insightful actually, but it's hard for stories of God and Jesus appearing to not sound exaggurated. What would you think if Jesus appeared in front of you? You would write your account of the incident down and you would be ridiculed and mocked like no tomorrow, and the words you wrote would probably sound so far fetched you would be institutionalized and put in a straight jacket.
christy
When I was a little girl I asked my mother about god, and why did so many people go to church and stuff. She sat me down and said to me "Honey, I believe that out there somewhere there is a being greater than us, more powerful, more knowledgable. I'm not saying this being knows everything, or controls everything, just that he/she/it or they is something more than we are. You can believe this, or you can believe something else, its up to you, all I ask is that you take the time to think about it and research it before you decide anything."

Since then, I've done an awful lot of research, either by reading or by talking to "believers" of various religions, and come to my personal conclusion, which is that all these various religions and their various gods are all the same being, under different names. Why? Not every culture formed at the same time, and not all of them are made up of the same kind of people. Everyone is different, so why shouldn't God be something or someone different to everyone? Some find it hard to believe in a single omnipotent being, so they believe in many who specialize in different things, and some are more comfortable in the thought that only one being could be that powerful, and some just don't believe.

I cant say that I believe in a God, or several Gods, but I do believe there is something, somewhere, just like my mother did. I'm not a fanatic, and I don't go to church, or pray, or burn candles at an altar or any of that nonsense. I dont think one has to do any of these things to prove ourselves to a God. If, afterall, they exist, then they would know whether or not we believe, wouldnt they?

Maybe they're just good ol aliens. Who knows.
mike4652
Quote:
I dont think one has to do any of these things to prove ourselves to a God

We coulden't prove anything to God if we spent a life time trying.
That is why God sent His only begotten Son, To prove His love to us.
All we have to do is allow His Spirit to speak to our heart.
God works on the inside. Not on the outside.
If a person has a real desire to know God, all they need to do is talk to HIM. God is personal and works on the heart.
acamas
I beleive in God. Im not weak or afraid of death or looking for more. I beleive because I can! Im fed up of people who dont beleive in God going on like they are so great and belittle Christians. All Im going to say is that from the way we live I think peope are to lazy to worry about religion and from TV and evrything else people have lost faith.

So if there is no god.. Why was there a big bang? what was before that? and how did that get there? Something big created us and I beleive it was god!
emilbusublime
God Prefers an Atheist, I mean. The eternal god is inconcievable.
Soulfire
I agree, the Big Bang could've been caused by God. If somehow we are proven to have came from monkeys (although it's unlikely), then that could have been the hand of God again. Although it would conflict parts of the Bible, that's the old testament, and I don't want to say it doesn't matter, but it isn't as important as the new testament. And with any human writing, mistakes could've been made.

We're standing in His love, mercy, compassion, and Himself all the time, everyday. You should find comfort in that, and it should bring you great joy. God is love.
PuNGS
I don't believe in god... I think the humanity created it for having hope when nothing is left... So god, in my conception, is only a creation of the humanity to survive with hope the hard times in life...

And I simply don't understand why people go to the catolic church... It is just a institution after money... Just look back at the humanity history: all the tirany that the catolic church imposed... I simply don't understand...
I'm not saying that people who goes to catolic church are crazy, I just don't understand why they trust in church...

Well, that's my opinion... I didn't tried to blame anyone, just exposing my opinion...
joscode
essentialmedia wrote:
God and/or religion is a toll used by weak minded individuals who are looking for something "greater in life" and cannot accept the fact that life is what it is. They need to find a higher "purpose" for their pathetic existence. Really all one has to do is just live each day the best as they can and you can find all the strength you need inside yourself.

Religion is for the weak and it teaches, bigotry, hatred, and violence. 100% of all wars are based on religious differences. The bible is the greatest piece of fiction story telling ever written. And Jesus was probably just a very insane man wandering around (homeless I might add). These days if you wander around homeless and call yourself the son of god, we commit you.

Shane


Again Shane, here you go putting other people down. You call nearly 90% of the world's population weak minded individuals. The Bible teaches brotherly love, even love toward your enemies. 100% of wars were not based on religious differences. Consider the atrocities commited by the humanist Joseph stalin, the genocides in Cambodia and other secularists wanting simply to rule the world.

Obviously you should check your facts again. The person of Jesus is upheld by history (check your calendar), archeology, topography, and myriad manuscripts. The reason anyone today claiming to be the Christos (anointed one) would be committed is because unlike the true Christ, they cannot raise the dead, walk on water, calm the seas, and themselves raise from the dead. This is what Jesus did, and there were plenty of documented witnesses.

Perhaps the most important question ever asked was by Jesus when he asked a group of men that followed him "whom do men say that I am?"

In the end everyone must answer this question. By refusing to answer is an answer it itself. Some said he was just a man. Others say he was a lunatic. Still others maintain he was a charlattan. But Millions have found that he is who he claimed he was; the Son of God. For this reason he was murdered.

For those who don't believe in God and his son Jesus, I dare you to call out to him. Ask him to reveal himself to you. If you do it scincerely, you will soon be numbered amongst the 90%.

Can you point to one specific part of the Bible that you have verified to be fictitious?
joscode
Lennon wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That was a good opportunity for a poll... Soulfire, here's your fave...

Superstition is in itself irrational (try use a better word like "biggest lie" or "biggest misconception" or just "the biggest waste of space" )

If superstition is what you intended then I'd say superstition is more irrational than a belief in a God...

The first place to look is Intelligent Design,
reading the signs may(not) suggest a God to you.

Then look at religion
which religions are preaching nonsense or truth? or elements of the truth?

for me, reading the signs of nature as a scientist can only indicate Intelligent Design.

A God is non-existent in our universe. He/She has no physical energy or he would be considered part of the universe. He/She has no biology and no body, no Gender, is non-human. God cannot be defined, just as the origin of the universe, t=0 cannot be defined. The source of life, light, the universe, and God are all undefined. So if there was nothing in the beginning, then there was also no God. However, even after the expansion of the universe a God cannot exist. Human emotions like love, pleasure, sadness can all be defined by brain-neuron activity. A Devil can be explained by negative unconciousness (stimulation of bad thoughts in the specific-region neurons). A God could be explained by the positive unconciousness (stimulation of good thoughts in the same Cortex region or otherwise).



A God cannot be reasoned with.

Blind faith In God, evolution or other theories must be taken to explain the mysterious, reasoned faith for the explained (reasoned faith like we all believe in elephant’s existence).
Try the evolution vs creation poll with this link
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-24268.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Is it not a contradiction to say that God cannot exists because he is undefined, when you believe that the origin of the universe also cannot be defined, yet it happened?

Is it not true that time, space and matter all became at the exact same instant. Are they not all codependant? I guess the thing that intrigues me the most is that you appear genuinely convinced that God cannot exists because we can't define him. That to me is nonsensical. Is it not possible that God can exist outside the dimension of our time and our space. Just because we cannot concieve him does not mean he can't exist.

The Bible teaches that the invisible things of God can be clearly seen by the visible things that he created (Romans 1). I'm sure as a scientist you can appreciate that life and its environment is far too complex to have originated by an explosion. I would not expect you to buy into the theory that with the magical "lot's of time" explanaiton, the worn down 95 Corsica in my driveway can someday, perhaps billions of years from now, in a great explosion turn itself into a Ferrari. Not just a Ferrari, but a Ferrari with all the electronic components working in perfect harmony, including self correcting code when damages occur, and adaptable to many environments, self learning, conscious of its environment, loving, caring, wondering if it just evolved or if there was a car manufacturer that produced it. Perhaps it will cite that the car manufacturer who designed it neither has tires, or a chasi, or power steering. Then it would conclude that because he cannot define his creator, he must have self evolved.

Your thoughts?
Lennon
Note revision.

    The origin of the universe and god cannot be explained or defined. Yet the universe comes into existence, just as God is really the cause of it's existence. Just impossible to prove both.


St augustine says that science must serve to understand nature in God's plan. Any conflict between religion and science must give way to science, and we must learn.

Yes, I am a believer
mike4652
Quote:
Perhaps the most important question ever asked was by Jesus when he asked a group of men that followed him "whom do men say that I am?"

This is a fact.
And one thing for sure, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.
If a person chooses to not believe in God, it will not change the fact that we all will have to face Him and give a account of our lives.
ainieas
mike4652 wrote:

If a person chooses to not believe in God, it will not change the fact that we all will have to face Him and give a account of our lives.


And what if he asks God - "God I gave my heart and soul to a different religion than what you had prescribed, why did YOU let those religions exist?"
powwow
I would not label the belief in God as a superstition, but I do believe the big misconception is that most who do believe in God, think God is separate from themselves. There is a quote in the bible that says "Be still and know that I am God". I like to change that a little and say "Be still and know that YOU are God".

Maintaining that God is outside ourselves is a false humility and prevents us from taking responsibiity for ourselves, and for the state of the world.

If God is given credit for all that is good, then the flip side of that is God could also be blamed for all that is "bad", as well.

Do you know how easy it is to have World Peace? It can happen in a moment, and it is up to all of us. Just stop fighting, stop hating, stop trying to change people into our own image, etc.

It's really all up to us, as I see it. We have more power than we often acknowledge.

But I do believe there is that one intelligence, that one Love, that I refer to as God, but the difference is that I believe we are all aspects of it --- which is different than the belief we are "children of", i.e. 2nd generation away from the Real Thing. I think we were all here from the beginning, just as "God" has been, because we are all aspects of that One Origin.
ninggdag
Hi, i think that superstition is not the better word.

Personally, i don't believe in god. I believe in a "life-after-dead" concept based in science. I see the cristian/judish concept of god like an utopy of the good man.
joscode
Quote:
And what if he asks God - "God I gave my heart and soul to a different religion than what you had prescribed, why did YOU let those religions exist?"


If a person truly seeks God, he will find that God sought the person long before.

It was the quick witted reporter Malcolm Muggeridge that wrote: "We have educated ourselves into imbecility." Everybody can chose for themselves which path they will chose. But in the end, do all paths lead to the same place?

Most major religions hold tenets of truth, but even a broken clock would be right twice a day; but it doesn't tell time. All religions cannot lead to the same path because most of these are mutually exclusive, and fundamentally contradictive.

If one were to give their
Quote:
heart and soul to a different religion than what
God "prescribed." The question really comes back to the person that did so, and the question would be a resounding, "Why?"

God forknew everyone. And those who he foreknew, he paved a path for them to walk in. And then he called them to walk on the path he paved. And then he justified them, and then he glorified them. (Romans 8:29, my paraphrasing, of course). In fact the first part of the book of Romans states that all men are without excuse as to knowing who God is, because the invisible God can be clearly seen by the visible things he created. And God gave us a perfect path to return back to him. But we refuse his plan, making ourselves wiser than God, as it were, and select our own Gods after the images of animals and all other imaginable things. This we do because we reject Gods path in our lives. His path is pure and perfect.

But we would rather live after our own lusts, and at the fear of losing our autonomy, we look for God in other forms.

Now the question for the aborigines who have never even heard of God and Jesus, they too can see creation and understand that there is a Creator and God will accept them on that alone.

But unto us, who have untold resources at our fingertips, we could easily see that God reveals himself to us every day. And he also wrote all of this in a book for us. We truly are without excuse. The Bible teaches that if one sincerely seeks the true God, he will find that God was seeking for them first.

I still dare you to sincerely cry out to God and ask him to reveal themselves to you. You will see that he is seeking you.
XSTG
Most likely God isn't existing... I do not exactly trust in God, but I may say what I think.... I think God is a pure invention of human beings to have something for their lives, a GOAL... cause it would be dull to live without having a goal in life. But they went too serious... creating the book and all and.... I think it's nearly foolishness ...
joscode
Quote:
[quote="powwow"]I would not label the belief in God as a superstition, but I do believe the big misconception is that most who do believe in God, think God is separate from themselves. There is a quote in the bible that says "Be still and know that I am God". I like to change that a little and say "Be still and know that YOU are God".


We are strictly forbidden to change what the Bible says.

Quote:
If God is given credit for all that is good, then the flip side of that is God could also be blamed for all that is "bad", as well.


God is holy, loving and just. Because he is loving, he created us to live with him. He also gives us the ability to chose him or reject him. Because he is holy, if we sin, we cannot be where he is. Because we sinned, we are separated from our creator and cannot return to him alone. That is why he bacame man and created a path back to him. This is what your soul longs for, to be reconciled with him. He cannot be blamed for anything that is bad. He created everything perfect, even our ability to chose. We chose to make things bad, He figured out a way to redeem the chaos we created. Make no mistake his is 100% holy.

Quote:
Do you know how easy it is to have World Peace? It can happen in a moment, and it is up to all of us. Just stop fighting, stop hating, stop trying to change people into our own image, etc.


Wow this is a really deep issue. Please don't misunderstand my intentions with the following, I don't mean to mock you, but it is profound. It is true that the world wants peace, but not righteous peace. No other peace can exists. How could we truly achieve peace on our own? You said if we "stop trying to change people into our own image, etc." Does this not mean that you are suggesting everybody embrace your belief? Does this not mean you would like people to comform to your image? Does not the Muslim long for everyone to become Muslim? Likewise the Mormon? Or the humanist, void of God?

Who's agenda should we follow? Who would make the rules, and why should that person make the rules. We should be wise in who we select. Make sure they only want the best for us. What if they change their minds as to what the rules should be. Or if we find out that one thing is not working because not everyone wants to cooperate, you know someone gets raped or something like that? Hmm.. the only way this would work is if the person had infinate wisdom, power, and can monitor everything at once. They themselves would have to be flawless, because if they weren't then there would be the possibilty for corruption. Crap this is hard. We really would need a transcendent law giver. We would really need God. Because if it is left up to us, well, you see the mess we got oursevles into.

Quote:
It's really all up to us, as I see it. We have more power than we often acknowledge.


We do what we can, but in the end it is futile; we really need God

Quote:
But I do believe there is that one intelligence, that one Love, that I refer to as God, but the difference is that I believe we are all aspects of it --- which is different than the belief we are "children of", i.e. 2nd generation away from the Real Thing. I think we were all here from the beginning, just as "God" has been, because we are all aspects of that One Origin


On this I partially agree with you in that we are created in his image and that we have the breath of life in us. That makes us eternal beings. But aside from that, we ARE NOT GODS!

If you think you are, what have you created lately? I don't mean reusing what is already created, but create something out of nothing?
JessieF
essentialmedia wrote:
God and/or religion is a toll used by weak minded individuals who are looking for something "greater in life" and cannot accept the fact that life is what it is. They need to find a higher "purpose" for their pathetic existence. Really all one has to do is just live each day the best as they can and you can find all the strength you need inside yourself.

Religion is for the weak and it teaches, bigotry, hatred, and violence. 100% of all wars are based on religious differences. The bible is the greatest piece of fiction story telling ever written. And Jesus was probably just a very insane man wandering around (homeless I might add). These days if you wander around homeless and call yourself the son of god, we commit you.

Shane


joscode wrote:

Again Shane, here you go putting other people down. You call nearly 90% of the world's population weak minded individuals. The Bible teaches brotherly love, even love toward your enemies. 100% of wars were not based on religious differences. Consider the atrocities commited by the humanist Joseph stalin, the genocides in Cambodia and other secularists wanting simply to rule the world.


I agree with this, the bible does in fact teach to love everyone, no matter what. It's also okay to hate, strongly dislike (etc) someone, just not to the extent that you want to harm them. Thinking of hurting someone is a 'bad thought' and bad thoughts are considered sins.

100% of wars were not caused by religion. Religion was indeed involved in war, but not the main cause. One of the main causes were disputes over land. Also, something sort of related to 'world domination'. For intance, the germans. They didn't cause a war because of religion, it was because they wanted to rule the world.

Another example that proves that religion is not what causes 100% of wars is the Japanese. When they bombed Pearl Harbor. It wasn't because of religion. It was because the United States cut off some certain supplies, etc, from them.

And when the terrorist hi-jacked the plane and crashed them into the Two Towers and the wall of the Pentigon. This wasn't because of religion. It was because they didn't believe in our government system, and many other things.
JessieF
Quote:


If God is given credit for all that is good, then the flip side of that is God could also be blamed for all that is "bad", as well.


If there were not ever any moments, incidents, etc, that weren't called bad, then how could we take joy in the good moments?

Quote:
Quote:

Do you know how easy it is to have World Peace? It can happen in a moment, and it is up to all of us. Just stop fighting, stop hating, stop trying to change people into our own image, etc.


World Peace is not as easy to come as you see it. No offense. There are way too many people in the world that enjoy seeing others in pain, and some are so egotistical they think they are better than all others and deserve to be treated like so.
Thus, peace can never arrive to the entire world. I am not saying that I don't want world peace, because it is what I want for the world, but it is completely pointless to daydream about it because it will never come to us on earth.
Only those of good heart will make it to Heaven. That's where you will find peace everywhere.
dzo
Leave the religious people be. Everyone pays their money and makes there choices. For example I bought the second chef reakwon album thinking it would be just as good as the cuban linx album. Yes the second album was terrible, but when my friends pointed out i had wasted my money I found myself defending it.

This is the reason religious people defend their beliefs so much, they know that its all ancient superstition, but they have already bought into it. Otherwise, if you believe in heaven and hell, you would believe that everyone will take their place, and not bother to "preach" to anyone.

So leave the religious people be. Yes they claim to know the truth, deep down they do, just let them get on with it Smile
KHO
Neutral ya, all of a sudden you just appeared on the earth one day. Go with that, now, if you were suddenly just shit out of the universe, into a totally random environment, with totally random circumstances, how the hell would everything fit?! If this were really the case, all races would have died off before their bodies had time to addapt to the new foods in their environment Neutral. Why do you think if we threw some ****** onto the surface of Mars without a space suit on he would get friking blown into hell?! Earth was made perfectly to suit the inhabitants that were made to suit it Neutral. There is no way we could have so many things that fit perfectly if everything is random Neutral.

Once again, l would like to say pardon my language, l am not normally one to use such words, but ignorant nihilist people tend to tick me off Neutral.
JessieF
KHO wrote:
Neutral ya, all of a sudden you just appeared on the earth one day. Go with that, now, if you were suddenly just **** out of the universe, into a totally random environment, with totally random circumstances, how the hell would everything fit?! If this were really the case, all races would have died off before their bodies had time to addapt to the new foods in their environment Neutral. Why do you think if we threw some ******* onto the surface of Mars without a space suit on he would get friking blown into hell?! Earth was made perfectly to suit the inhabitants that were made to suit it Neutral. There is no way we could have so many things that fit perfectly if everything is random Neutral.

Once again, l would like to say pardon my language, l am not normally one to use such words, but ignorant nihilist people tend to tick me off Neutral.


In certain discussions, such as this one, no one is really ignorant. It's a matter of opinion, thus, calling (whoever you're calling ignorant) someone ignorant in this discussion only proves that you're the one who's ignorant here.
dzo
KHO wrote:
There is no way we could have so many things that fit perfectly if everything is random Neutral.



Wether we ihabited the world or 3 headed elephants did, the same could be claimed. No matter what the situation is the same could be claimed.

Could be God, Jehova, Allah, or any number of a zillion gods.

Could be a million of those little green things in the fragiles that designed everything.

If you didnt actually see it happen dont be so sure Very Happy
whplace
Well i can never trust until i see it with my own eyes Smile.

But there a lot of incidents..........

I go to a lace called sabarimalai every year............. Its a sacred mountain where they say god "ayyapa" lives.

Well here is the interesting stuff:
Every year in this mountain one will be able to see a small light far away on top of a mountain. No one has made it to that place still. They say its god in the form of light. Lots of people have tried to reach that place and they all have died. This atleast shows there is god............. But yeah we can never say..........

whplace
Soulfire
whplace wrote:
Well i can never trust until i see it with my own eyes Smile.

That is the entire point of Christianity, not having to directly see God to believe in Him. He wants you to follow Him by choice, He doesn't want to have to appear in front of you or force you to follow Him, it's a personal choice.
JonesThe42nd
I generally try to avoid trying to sound like I feel like I'm specifically right, and other people are specifically wrong. So I won't say anyone else who's posted is specifically wrong. I am, however, completely right.
First of all, superstition is a very bad word for what it seems to me this poll was trying to gauge, simply because superstition infers irrationality. The problem I have with this is simply that people too often associate irrationality with faith. They think that rational thoughts are thoughts based on cold, solid, irrefutable facts, and anything else is easily classified as "irrational". This is not true.
A rational thought is one that follows logical processes to confirm itself in your own mind, and which you can explain to others why it makes sense to you, or why it is rational. It is no constant solid term, no one theory is rational, leaving others to be irrational. Case in point, both Intelligent Design and Evolution are rational theories on our origins. But I digress.
You can't call any religious belief irrational because, by and large, it's believers have a real reason for believing it. And they can explain it to you, just ask them. All religious beliefs are rational in a sane mind.
Leaning on my first point, I wanted to point out that, even if you have no solid facts, no irrefutable evidence and, in fact, some evidence that may seem contrary to your point, it is possible to rationally believe in something. I'll use myself as an example. One of the things I enjoy doing is challenging my faith. I comb through the Bible, and writings of theologans, looking for problems with Christianity. I've seen many disconcerting effects of the belief system on individuals, such as the crusades, but I tend to look past those, to the ideal itself, and not the actions of some supposed followers. Any time I come across a piece of information that I cannot assimilate into the flawless belief structure that allows me to be content in my faith, I laugh. I marvel at the ways God can arrange things against himself at times. You see, I firmly believe that God set everything, everyone up so that we could choose to believe in him. Or not to. And he set up this choice on many levels, and almost every soul who has ever lived has made this choice, at some point in their lives.

I guess that's what this poll is about. What was your choice?
dzo
[quote="joscode"]
Quote:

We are strictly forbidden to change what the Bible says.


If you believe this I guess your not a "Christian" then?

You must be a gnosist (whose bible has not been changed) or muslim (Islam was actually set up by "original christians" who rejected changes to the bible, such as the introduction of the holy trinity, hence the "there is no other god" and "Just One" slogans. Also, the second commandment is "You shall have no other gods but Me", the first thing muhammed and his people did when they went back to mecca was destroy the statues of Mary / Jesus / and the saints, since people were praying to them thus breaking the second commandment)

The modern day "Christians" are actually the brand of people that believe its ok to change the bible whenever it suits the pope, or whatever authority they "follow".

Therefore the quote "We are strictly forbidden to change what the Bible says." implies a non-christian view. If I'm wrong then you must be the onloy christian I know that has a copy of the bible with the Apocrypha (taken out about 100 years ago) and all the other changes that have been made over the last thousand odd years, since Constantine the greats conferences in Iznik around the year 300 (funnily enough around the time Islam started!!! ).....
benjamincblunt
God is real! it's a shame there is this many people even who still don't believe in him and I think that's bad that even this many people still don't believe in him. As christians it is our duty to spread the word of our lord and that's what we need to do. I love the lord our god.
rwtthai
You must be a gnosist (whose bible has not been changed) or muslim (Islam was actually set up by "original christians" who rejected changes to the bible, such as the introduction of the holy trinity, hence the "there is no other god" and "Just One" slogans.

The modern day "Christians" are actually the brand of people that believe its ok to change the bible whenever it suits the pope, or whatever authority they "follow".

Well probably the most unifomed definition of a christian I've ever heard. It sure would be interesting to hear Paul's reply to you observation about Gnostics and their unchanging bible (which one?).

Popes? I think then you must be referring to Catholics and then using their history to infer that all Christians are the same. Guess you haven't had much exposure to Christians then.

End of this debate is about personal belief. I guess a better question to most would be - do you think God believes in YOU?

I see from earlier posts that only the stupid low educated masses are believers in God - men like Bacon, Einstein, Hawkins etc.

Obviously some only believe in themselves, the ultimate ego trip.
dzo
rwtthai can you elaborate because I dont understand the point you are trying to make.

Can you disprove any of anything I wrote? Do you own a copy of the bible with the Apocrypha? If so, can someone please tell me why it was taken out?

Can you point to anywhere in the bible that says anything about a holy trinity? Can you point to anywhere in the Quran that says woman should wear head scarves?

Do you not know that the gnostic bible, the quran, and the orthadox bible are all based on the teachings of st paul? They are all the same core stories!

Do you not agree that preying to a statue of Mary is a direct sin via the second commandment?

What is the point you are making?
Soulfire
rwtthai wrote:
You must be a gnosist (whose bible has not been changed) or muslim (Islam was actually set up by "original christians" who rejected changes to the bible, such as the introduction of the holy trinity, hence the "there is no other god" and "Just One" slogans.

The modern day "Christians" are actually the brand of people that believe its ok to change the bible whenever it suits the pope, or whatever authority they "follow".

Well probably the most unifomed definition of a christian I've ever heard. It sure would be interesting to hear Paul's reply to you observation about Gnostics and their unchanging bible (which one?).

Popes? I think then you must be referring to Catholics and then using their history to infer that all Christians are the same. Guess you haven't had much exposure to Christians then.

End of this debate is about personal belief. I guess a better question to most would be - do you think God believes in YOU?

I see from earlier posts that only the stupid low educated masses are believers in God - men like Bacon, Einstein, Hawkins etc.

Obviously some only believe in themselves, the ultimate ego trip.

That entire post is unjustified and crude.
James007
God is an illusion, created for people to have someone to look up too. The rules are strict and "perfect" and you should try to get as close as possible to this "perfection". We are animals, we need a leader... (well most of us do, I don't)

If God doesn't help you when you have a problem, it is because he doesn't exist.
If you think God helped you with something, you have just been lucky.

Such a waste of time, this religion. It's a pitty that almost everyone is believing in something they have never seen. In some way I admire people who are really into their religion. It's a shame religion stops logical thinking. Why are you doing this? "Because God said so in the bible..." (or Allah, koran...) That is not a reason... It has never been proven. You JUST believe it. I think it is nice more and more people are awakening from their dream.

(I'm not sure whether "awakening" is English :p)

James Smile

@KHO: could you stop the smiley-flood please.Smile
sponguy
A superstition relies on at least some consequence to your own actions. God does not require this form, but often does. I guess my response to this would be that "god" is not a superstition but an explanation. It can be based on a logical argument founded in an appeal to authority or consensus. Both of these can be fallacious, but are commonly accepted to provide the measure of logical soundness decisions require to be made. This does not mean the authority or the agreeing are correct. It does however mean that they are not foolish, irrational, or necessarily incorrect in their faith. I cannot prove there is no God. I cannot even offer any sound reasons for there not being a God. I can only offer alternatives. These are the alternatives upon which my reasoning is based. My reasoning leads my to my own conlusions, and a way from a notion of a creator, or an omnipotent being. But this is my appeal to my most trusted authority, my own reasoning.
ccarter24
Not believing in God shows a true lack of faith. Aetheists are just strange to me. I'll never understand how they can't even believe in a Supreme Being. Of course, they can't understand how I do believe. I guess it just depends on who you are.
Lied
I don't belive in god, maybe there is a greater power, but no god, and his son jesus.He teaches about peace and flood the whole world, he teaches about friendship, and sends plague to nations,he loves everyone but judge anyone,he created us with so many temptations and make it like a game, "I put the obstacles,you must come over them".He says that he is everywhere and "in" everything, but we cannot belive in the winds and the sun(he is there and he is the wind and sun,why we can't?) His curchies are worse than internation corporations,they have gathered insane amound of cash and still, ask more about helping the poor and such and god is nowhere.His is teachings show egoism, his action reveange,to sutisfy etternal happiness on paradise is lust, since we have not to apresiate the limmited lifespan on this world.
Promisies for weak minds, the last thing you can hold from when you cannot find help,just like ancient times where lightnings was reveange of god Zeus,Let the time goes by and many things will be disapear and the need of god will be lessend.
Lennon
I was just thinking last night.

Jesus was probably the greatest ethical philosopher in history.
He also deserves some respect for how cool he handled the arguements, debates, interrogations and his murder. His style is probably one of the greatest for a role model in history. His teachings of right and wrong, love your enemies etc. were all way ahead of his time. His style of standing up to his enemies with dignity and with truth until they have no choice but to kill him, that is outstanding. And the truth is all of this side of Jesus is recorded in Roman and Gospel history.
shadedflame
mike4652 wrote:
Quote:
the bible was ordered to be written by a man

What about the dead sea scrolls?
They were discovered in the spring of 1947 in a cave,
They are a collection of ancent Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts and fragments of manuscripts. Over 1/3 of these documents are books of the Old Testment. Not to mention that the complete book of Isaiah was one of them.
The span of time that the Bible covers is far to complex to be fiction.
Not to mention it has withstood the test of time.
It is the inspired word of God.
It survived the test of time because during the middle ages people were so surpressed with famine, this was the only thing that gave them hope. Weak minded people like you kept this alive. God is not a superstition, but an imaginary friend shared by many
vortex444
this website cliams the bible is fake!
Http://www.exposingchristianity.com/
Soulfire
vortex444 wrote:
this website cliams the bible is fake!
Http://www.exposingchristianity.com/

There are websites out there that proclaim spaghetti to be a god. You CANNOT trust everything you read.

For that one website, there are others (such as thebibleistrue.com.. I think that's the address).

If atheists truly don't care, why do they tremble at the mention of God? Why do they become so hostile when someone mentions the Bible? Hmm, I don't know.
Vrythramax
I don't believe God is just a superstition, there are far to many unexplained things in the universe to be the work of mere chance.
Mgccl
It should be... because I never see god or anything god like in my life
so where is god? maybe he just abandond us and made a whole new universe
nopaniers
I believe in God, but I cannot prove that there is a God, just the same way that when I was an atheist I could not prove that there was not one.

When I was an atheist one of my starting assumptions was there was no God. Not surprisingly, when starting from this assumption, I would always come to the conclusion that there was no God. It was an assumption, not something that I had evidence for. When I tried to find evidence for it, I was very unsatisfied.

As far as I am concerned there is not enough evidence either way for a definitive answer. That's what "faith" is all about. Atheists have "faith" that there is no God (an assumption that they cannot prove) and Christians (in my case at least) have faith that there is. Everyone has to decide for themselves who they believe, despite the fact they don't have complete information. Personally, as a Christian I prefer to go back to the life, and death, of Jesus but to keep in mind that the question of "Is there a God?" is still an open one.
Rieteke
My parents raised me as a christian.
I did all I had to do do become a good christian, all the rituals. And I'd like to marry later on. But I don't really believe in God like the christians do.
I believe in the evolution but I also believe there had to be A force in the very beginning that has created the first element who has reacted and changed and much more.
I don't know what all the religions say and where every religion believes in but is there anyone who can tell me which religion I'm the closest to with my believe quoted above?
Is it something like Buddhism?
Soulfire
Mgccl wrote:
It should be... because I never see god or anything god like in my life
so where is god? maybe he just abandond us and made a whole new universe

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord, thy God. The problem is too many people take the "I don't believe it until I see it" stand. That's the entire point of Christianity, God wants you to trust Him without having to show up and slap you in the face and force you to believe. He is here, everyday, the little things.
ainieas
Rieteke wrote:

I believe in the evolution but I also believe there had to be A force in the very beginning that has created the first element who has reacted and changed and much more.
I don't know what all the religions say and where every religion believes in but is there anyone who can tell me which religion I'm the closest to with my believe quoted above?
Is it something like Buddhism?


You don't actually need a religion to tell you what to believe or what not to. All religions are flawed. Stick to your believe and that will see you to the other side. Smile
sebascorre
If we write the word GOD then GOD exist in our mind.
We can deny this fact.
Our mind is our world.
valkyrie-heavens
I dont believe God is a superstition. Most people who dont believe in God know nothing about the Bible. The reality is that if u take the time to understand the Bible you would realize how much it has predicted our future. Everything that has happened and will happen is already written in the Bible. And I agree with Soulfire, everyone believes that you have to see it to believe it. I dont believe that science can explain everything.
Whong
valkyrie-heavens wrote:
I dont believe God is a superstition. Most people who dont believe in God know nothing about the Bible. The reality is that if u take the time to understand the Bible you would realize how much it has predicted our future. Everything that has happened and will happen is already written in the Bible. And I agree with Soulfire, everyone believes that you have to see it to believe it. I dont believe that science can explain everything.


I totally agree with you valkyrie-heavens and soulfire, I'm very glad to see that there are atleast a few believers, and humble servants of Christ! Very Happy
We live in the end times, so we don't know when will Jesus come and get us, but it will anyway be soon. The Bible is pure fact text! Nothing in it is wrong, except that different translations give a different picture so it would be good to know hebrew, aramic and greek to see from the ancient texts! Because there it is written as it is ment to be! I wonder how people can be so foolish, though we humans have the best brain of all other living creatures, yet some think that the world and the universe was "born" from an explosion. I mean how foolish is that, scientists can't prove it because it is false!

Brothers, Valkyrie-Heavens and SoulFire, and any other believers and servants of our Lord Jesus Christ; Let us be the light of this world and these forums, let us proclaim that only by Jesus we can get to heaven! Wink
Soulfire
Too many people are hostile toward Christianity. If they are truly atheist, believe in no god, and don't care... why are they so upset about God and religion? Why are they so anti-religion? Is it because they know they're wrong and are too stubborn to admit it? Or is it because their life is empty without God and they are in denial?

This world is falling apart, faster than we all know. I wait patiently as a humble servant of Christ for His second coming.
Whong
Soulfire wrote:
Too many people are hostile toward Christianity. If they are truly atheist, believe in no god, and don't care... why are they so upset about God and religion? Why are they so anti-religion? Is it because they know they're wrong and are too stubborn to admit it? Or is it because their life is empty without God and they are in denial?

This world is falling apart, faster than we all know. I wait patiently as a humble servant of Christ for His second coming.


I do too, and hope to see it! The devil has blinded the peoples eyes so they can't see, understand! God can only help them!
Kaneda
Soulfire wrote:
Too many people are hostile toward Christianity. If they are truly atheist, believe in no god, and don't care... why are they so upset about God and religion? Why are they so anti-religion? Is it because they know they're wrong and are too stubborn to admit it? Or is it because their life is empty without God and they are in denial?


I'm an agnostic atheist, not anti-religion or upset about God and religion as such. I don't believe in any god, and I find the whole discussion of whether he exists absolutely irrelevant and pointless, so, yes, you can say I "don't care".

If you ask the Danish central persons' register, they'd tell you I'm actually an Evangelical Lutheran Christian. Simply because I don't even care enough to get a lower tax rate by ending my membership of that church - a membership which started way before I had any say in it. Wink

I'll keep paying to them, since I see them doing no wrong (I can't say that for all churches, however) - and the money helps maintain some beautiful buildings, which I still use from time to time, mostly Christmas. I don't go there to worship any god, though. I go there, usually with my girlfriend, to celebrate an idea of love and community and people caring for each other. I could easily attend the Christmas service without being a member of the church, however - any Danish church is public property.

What I do get "upset" about from time to time (as in, I'll bother to state my opinion) is either:

a) religious people or churches using their religion for their own purposes, or
b) religious people trying to force their beliefs or morality (or lack of such) on other people every chance they get, or
c) people blindly following the command of their church without making up their own minds. If it's their own choice to blindly follow, I can only accept it and be sad for them, so I'll rarely bother entering such a discussion in any event.

As a sidenote, I see you doing none of these, Soulfire Smile

As for anti-religion atheists... Most people I know are fine with Christians and any other religion. The ones who aren't... I think it has a lot to do with discourse. The message of Matthew 28:19 ("Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, [...]" etc.) is pretty clear, but when it's practiced, the discourse is often in danger of bearing a lot of implied superiority, which will offend people.

Also, I think angry atheists would be more common in the US, simply because the States has a history of religious interests dictating or attempting to dictate US law on a high or low level (from prohibition over abortion and homosexuality to teaching of evolution). And most atheists will find that an attack on their personal freedom. Much less common in Europe (I actually can't think of an example in the past 50 years). Actually, ask a European, and most will tell you that religion has absolutely no place in politics.
Soulfire
I didn't say that everyone who isn't Christian hates Christians. I just wish they would mind their own business and let us mind ours, but it is our duty, our belief to try and spread the good news of Jesus Christ.

What's the point of being Christian if we're just going to keep it to ourselves and not display it to the world. God puts His light in us to shine for the entire world.

You can't just sit and whisper "Oh, I'm Christian." You have to be loud and proud about it, but not to the point where some people take it. I do agree that some people go off the deep end. It's a very multifaceted thing.
Kaneda
Soulfire wrote:
I just wish they would mind their own business and let us mind ours, but it is our duty, our belief to try and spread the good news of Jesus Christ.


And now you surprise me, by actually displaying one of the reasons for what you perceive as hostility from atheists... You enter the superiority discourse. Atheists should mind their own business, while a Christian should be free to blabber all he wants, because he feels he has a duty and he's obviously right?

You can't expect anyone to "mind their own business", if you're being "loud and proud" about anything. You're free to be loud and proud, but if you are, you'll have to accept that someone, somewhere will disagree with you - and do it just as loudly and proudly as you do.

In essence, the only source of your "duty" to spread the word is your belief. If an atheist believes you're mistaken, he's 100% as free to see it as his duty to say the opposite. Christianity has no patent on truth. Not even close to it.

Quote:
What's the point of being Christian if we're just going to keep it to ourselves and not display it to the world. God puts His light in us to shine for the entire world.


The point would be to be happy with yourselves and your self-assumed salvation and superiority, rather than feeling the need to make everyone else conform to your wishes.

This feeling of missionary duty has caused not much but grief for a thousand years. Isn't it time Christians realized that a large part - if not the majority - of the world has already heard these 2000 year old "good news", and made their own, informed decision? If a light really shines in you, people lost in darkness will come to you by their own choice. If a person in a Christian society calls himself an atheist or agnostic, you can be quite certain that he knows exactly what Christianity is about - he's probably even read the bible more than a good deal of the people calling themselves Christians. You don't need to show him any light.

And especially not if you want him to mind his own business. Then it's probably time to - not start whispering - but at least talk at the sound level of normal human beings. Smile

I'm sure this sounds hostile, isn't really meant that way. Let's just say I'm disappointed to see such a display of hypocricy and intolerance right after I commend you for you moderateness. Smile
livilou
A lot of what you've stated is correct, how can we, as Christians, not be willing to accept that others have a different point of view? We can't, pure and simple. We have to be willing to understand that we can't force anyone. All we can do is state the facts as we know them. I'm a firm believer in the statement, "We can disagree, we just don't have to be disagreeable".

So far, because of my beliefs, I've been called weak-minded, crazy, not capable of rational thought, and a few other things. All because I'm willing to state that I consider myself a Christian. I had this beautiful speech prepared that I had planned to place on here, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized all it would do is cause more problems. That's not what I want to do. And before you think I would have fussed at the non-belieers only, let me state for the record that I had a few things to say to the believers as well.

I get frustrated feeling like I have to defend my beliefs to people, when all I would like is for us all to realize that we can believe different things. I don't have to agree with your opinions, by the same token, I don't expect you to believe in mine. I came to my opinions through study and observation, and that's what they are, my opinions, the way I perceive things to be. Can I prove that God does exist? NO. Can you prove He doesn't? NO.

This all comes down to personal choice. I choose to believe that God does exist. Why does that seem so hard for some people to understand?

I've never appreciated someone trying to force feed me their opinions so I try not to do it to others. These are my beliefs. If you don't agree, fine. I never asked you to.
Kaneda
livilou wrote:
So far, because of my beliefs, I've been called weak-minded, crazy, not capable of rational thought, and a few other things.


So far, because of my beliefs, I've been called evil, immoral, amoral, hollow, elitist, materialist, selfish, wicked, destructive, criminal, living an empty, pointless life plus every single label you mention - from crazy to weak-minded.

Difference is, I don't care, I don't feel offended - if Christians wish to think I'm the personification of Lucifer (and that has been said), fine. Smile I can only wonder where that wish comes from.

Quote:
I get frustrated feeling like I have to defend my beliefs to people, when all I would like is for us all to realize that we can believe different things.


And that's where (most) Christians and (most) atheists think exactly the same. The only idea I spoke against above was the idea that atheists should keep their mouth shut so Christians could spread their good news without the fear and trouble of being opposed or questioned.

How is that not a rejection of the wish for tolerance? (Yes, I know it wasn't you making that statement). If you want to open your mouth, be prepared for others to do the same. Anything else is hypocricy no matter what your religion or belief.

Quote:
I had this beautiful speech prepared that I had planned to place on here, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized all it would do is cause more problems.


You should. Any "problems" will only be words, won't they? I for one would like to read it.

Quote:
I came to my opinions through study and observation, and that's what they are, my opinions, the way I perceive things to be. Can I prove that God does exist? NO. Can you prove He doesn't? NO.


I wouldn't want to prove or disprove it either, and I hope neither would a Christian (if nothing else, then because of Matthew 14:22-33). I'll never bother entering a pointless discussion of evidence (and that's what most religious discussions here come down to). Were it proven for or against, I'd still find it utterly irrelevant. This is not a matter of truth, it's a matter of faith, and it's a matter of whether you feel you need that aspect to make your life complete. I don't.

Quote:
This all comes down to personal choice. I choose to believe that God does exist. Why does that seem so hard for some people to understand?


I tried to give an explanation for that above. I understand completely, but that's probably because, unlike US atheists, I'm not a minority. I think when it comes to atheists in the US, a lot of people will find it hard to understand, because your personal choice is forced on them through laws and social bias. Atheists, after all, was revealed in a recent survey to be the least trusted group in America. Razz

Also, as you said very well, the problem goes both ways. I have met many a Christian who is not necessarily hostile or intolerant, but simply incapable of understanding why a person wouldn't believe in God - or how he can not believe and still be happy with this life - and live a meaningful life, or good life. This is essential to many a Christian's belief system. And they're free to think so - and say so. But if they do say so, I'm just as free to say the same about their life. Smile
alexxa
Many of you writed here in different ways about this topic.
I reserve me too the right to say what I thing about the real God:
"God created you. Not only that, he loves you so much that he wants you to know him now and spend eternity with him. Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus came so that each of us could know and understand God in a personal way. Jesus alone can bring meaning and purpose to life."
Subsonic Sound
Soulfire wrote:

There are websites out there that proclaim spaghetti to be a god. You CANNOT trust everything you read.


You do realise that no-one actually believes the Flying Spaghetti Monster to be a god? It's a satire.

Quote:
If atheists truly don't care, why do they tremble at the mention of God?


Do we?

Quote:
Why do they become so hostile when someone mentions the Bible? Hmm, I don't know.


Again, do we? I for one am quite happy for people to believe whatever works for them, and expect them to feel the same. Smile
Soulfire
Subsonic Sound wrote:

You do realise that no-one actually believes the Flying Spaghetti Monster to be a god? It's a satire.

Yes, I realize that. But I'm sure someone out there may think it's real. I wouldn't waste the time to poke fun at other religions, but to each his own I suppose.

Subsonic Sound wrote:
Do we?

Meh, not all of you. It's just the people who go all psycho-defensive if I mention God in front of them, even if I'm not talking to them.

Subsonic Sound wrote:
Again, do we? I for one am quite happy for people to believe whatever works for them, and expect them to feel the same. Smile

Again, the people who go all crazy and anti-religion whenever someone mentions the Bible. And like I already said too, I don't even have to be talking to them and they go all crazy over me.

I'm from a rural, Christian area though, so it doesn't happen too often around here. The worst I get are all the Catholic jokes.

I respect peoples' beliefs, even though I would like everyone to be Christian, it's something I can not, and am not meant to control.
livilou
Kaneda wrote:
livilou wrote:
So far, because of my beliefs, I've been called weak-minded, crazy, not capable of rational thought, and a few other things.


So far, because of my beliefs, I've been called evil, immoral, amoral, hollow, elitist, materialist, selfish, wicked, destructive, criminal, living an empty, pointless life plus every single label you mention - from crazy to weak-minded.

Difference is, I don't care, I don't feel offended - if Christians wish to think I'm the personification of Lucifer (and that has been said), fine. Smile I can only wonder where that wish comes from.


I'm sure you have, and I find that just as terrible for you as for me. No person should have to go through that because they have a different point of view. But that will only happen in a perfect world and since this isn't one, it won't happen anytime soon. I will say this though, I promise to try not to make you feel that way because we have different opinions.

Kaneda wrote:
livilou wrote:
I had this beautiful speech prepared that I had planned to place on here, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized all it would do is cause more problems.


You should. Any "problems" will only be words, won't they? I for one would like to read it.


I would, but, I don't believe they would only be words. Words have power. Power to either make a bridge or tear a bridge down, heal or hurt. I don't want to say or write words that hurt and I'm afraid that is what will happen if I put them here.

I want to thank you for your kind words, and usually these things don't bother me. I guess I was just letting off a little steam.
Kaneda
livilou wrote:
I'm sure you have, and I find that just as terrible for you as for me. No person should have to go through that because they have a different point of view. But that will only happen in a perfect world and since this isn't one, it won't happen anytime soon. I will say this though, I promise to try not to make you feel that way because we have different opinions.


I do hope you noticed the part where I said, "I don't care" Wink This goes (or should go) for Christians, atheists, and any other religion/belief/faith: If I truely believe in something, why should I care about someone else's judgment on my person, if the only reason he can give for that judgment is that his belief is different? Can't see why I should. Hence, I don't give a damn.

So no need to feel bad for me. My point wasn't "I've been called as many names as you", but rather "I don't care how many names you call me". Smile
grifnas
Carupieara wrote:
How many of you here believe that God is by far the biggest superstition of all?


Updated to include poll.

No, I don't believe that God is a superstition... I believe that God exists... and that Jesus Christ is your son...
We all are your children too...
livilou
Kaneda wrote:
I do hope you noticed the part where I said, "I don't care" Wink This goes (or should go) for Christians, atheists, and any other religion/belief/faith: If I truely believe in something, why should I care about someone else's judgment on my person, if the only reason he can give for that judgment is that his belief is different? Can't see why I should. Hence, I don't give a damn.

So no need to feel bad for me. My point wasn't "I've been called as many names as you", but rather "I don't care how many names you call me". Smile


It's just my nature to be that way. I'm a nuturer, always have been. I guess it's just the big sister in me. I tend to adopt people as little brothers and sister then treat them that way, if the age is appropriate for that, anyway.

And while you may not care, (which is great), I tend to be sympathetic about situations that can cause offense.
a_dubDesign
livilou, you rock. I tend to be the same (nuturer), but male.

And Kaneda, as much as it doesn't matter to you, I would like to add "loved child of god" to the list of names people have called ya. Take from it what ya will, just something I've been doing when I hear about all the things "christians" call other people. Chalk it up to that "inner nuturer" I guess.

Take care y'all
Kaneda
Many thanks to both of you. Smile It's always great to see tolerant Christians, who are able to be firm in their belief, but are still able to (as I have seen both of you do in other threads) politely disagree with, and discuss, another Christian's viewpoint on a religious issue. Christianity would be a lot less of a touchy subject to many people, if its followers would do that more often, rather than blindly accepting what a random priest told them in their childhood.

And @a_dubDesign: Thanks for that addition to the list. Smile I may not agree with your beliefs, but I still take to my heart the sentiment of those words. Appreciate it a lot.

Leaving a shop owned by Muslim, I was asked by a friend once, why I wished the owner a merry Christmas, since "he doesn't celebrate Christmas". Sure he doesn't. He doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, and I don't believe in God. But we both know the good will and intentions that lie behind those words. Which, to me, is much more important than the specifics of our different beliefs.
livilou
Kaneda wrote:
Leaving a shop owned by Muslim, I was asked by a friend once, why I wished the owner a merry Christmas, since "he doesn't celebrate Christmas". Sure he doesn't. He doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, and I don't believe in God. But we both know the good will and intentions that lie behind those words. Which, to me, is much more important than the specifics of our different beliefs.


Exactly! The thought, or intention, behind something is worth a lot.

Kaneda wrote:
And Kaneda, as much as it doesn't matter to you, I would like to add "loved child of god" to the list of names people have called ya. Take from it what ya will, just something I've been doing when I hear about all the things "christians" call other people. Chalk it up to that "inner nuturer" I guess.


I should have thought of that. Thanks for saying when I didn't. lol

One reason I tend to be a nuturer, besides being used to playing big sister to people, is that I've noticed that I'm usually old enough to be most people's mom on forums like this. (Not all, but most) And being a mom has just increased the tendency to try and nuture everyone. lol Oh well, some things you just can't change. Very Happy
a_dubDesign
Kaneda wrote:
Many thanks to both of you. Smile It's always great to see tolerant Christians, who are able to be firm in their belief, but are still able to (as I have seen both of you do in other threads) politely disagree with, and discuss, another Christian's viewpoint on a religious issue. Christianity would be a lot less of a touchy subject to many people, if its followers would do that more often, rather than blindly accepting what a random priest told them in their childhood.

And @a_dubDesign: Thanks for that addition to the list. Smile I may not agree with your beliefs, but I still take to my heart the sentiment of those words. Appreciate it a lot.

Thanks bro. Glad you can appreciate the sentiment.
mike1reynolds
Soulfire wrote:
Subsonic Sound wrote:
Do we?

Meh, not all of you. It's just the people who go all psycho-defensive if I mention God in front of them, even if I'm not talking to them.

I talk about God, spirituality and religions incessantly, and yet I don’t get anything like the reactions you speak of (and have spoken of repeatedly elsewhere, so it is obviously a sore point for you).

Soulfire wrote:
Subsonic Sound wrote:
Again, do we? I for one am quite happy for people to believe whatever works for them, and expect them to feel the same. Smile

Again, the people who go all crazy and anti-religion whenever someone mentions the Bible. And like I already said too, I don't even have to be talking to them and they go all crazy over me.

I’ll just pop right out and start talking about the Apocalypse and Revelations to total strangers and as often as not I’ll get an extremely positive reaction. I almost never get a significantly negative reaction, unless I’m being very critical of something that I think is harmful, like Wicca.

Kaneda wrote:
Soulfire wrote:
I just wish they would mind their own business and let us mind ours, but it is our duty, our belief to try and spread the good news of Jesus Christ.


And now you surprise me, by actually displaying one of the reasons for what you perceive as hostility from atheists... You enter the superiority discourse. Atheists should mind their own business, while a Christian should be free to blabber all he wants, because he feels he has a duty and he's obviously right?


I think that you’ve hit the nail on the head. This is a double standard. Bigotry is based on double standards and the problem with a lot of right-wing religious people is that they couple morality with bigotry and double standards, i.e. immorality. Now THAT is what produces intense reactions. It is not that you are talking about God or religion, it is that you are talking about moral issues in a hypocritical way. Note the bigotry is not explicitly racism, the dictionary defines any intolerantly held conviction as bigotry. I could well be wrong, but I’ll bet that a lot of people who take offense are not atheists at all, and not even necessarily left-wing. Take horseeatingweeds for example, he was a political conservative and yet he took issue with some of your expressions of intolerance towards non-Christians. You didn’t see it as intolerance to assert that all non-Christians will go to Hell, but even people way to the right of me would assert that it would be completely unjust for God to send everyone of another religion to Hell, and belief in a God that self-righteously commits acts of injustice is basically to assert that one’s bigotry is so absolutely correct that even God adheres to the same kind of bigotry.

This reminds me of a joke that a Catholic told me about this issue. A man dies and goes to Heaven and as he’s looking around he sees people just about every denomination and creed, Jews, Protestants, Buddhists, shaman, Taoist, everything kind of belief was represent in massive numbers except one: there were hardly any Catholics. In shock he exclaims, “where are all the Catholics?!” Someone nearby replies, they are all behind that wall over there, they think that they are the only ones here.

While this is certainly an overgeneralization, and there are many wonderful counterexamples, such as Thomas Merton, a Catholic monk and prodigious author of works of comparative religion, I think that this does apply pretty squarely to you, Soulfire.

It is not the fact that you talk about God that produces negative reactions, it is the manner in which you portray God which people have a reaction too.
mike1reynolds
BTW, I take exception to the wording of the poll. While most religious people would readily declare that yes they have faith in God, I would assert that the term faith implies a lack of objectivity. Would you ask someone if they have 'faith' in science?

Belief in God can be a completely objective matter, but the wording of the poll has the implication that this cannot be so.
Altec88
Until someone proves something, I'm open to any ideas.
livilou
Altec88 wrote:
Until someone proves something, I'm open to any ideas.


While I can't offer absolute proof, I can say this. Archeologist are proving that the history stated in the bible, was true. They are finding more and more cities and items that were listed in the bible now more than ever before. The reason I can state this, hubby makes me watch the History Channel, Discovery Channel and TLC. They may not be my favorite shows, but sometimes I have to let him think he's in control of something around here. Very Happy Very Happy
swapnalokam
Soulfire wrote:

Those who die in a state of grace with God, go to Heaven. That is the belief, because that is what my religion is. My religion teaches that Christians go to Heaven, and they do! It's no different in the sense that Islam thinks all Muslims go to Heaven, why don't you yell at them for their beliefs?

The rest of the world is in trouble, and they know what comes of them, and they choose to reject God, God rejects them.


aww... just because you become christian will ya go to heaven... thaz funny... I think you have to live as a good christian too... which means... 99% of people in this world would go to hell... ( in your opinion)

when your relegion think only your people will go to heaven... you know what my relegion says... "It doesn't matter what you belive in, if you don't lead a good life, its your loss" I think it makes more sense than.. your belive of that all christians go to heaven
dahan
HI
God certainly exists

you cant visit this web site http://www.harunyahya.com/
you can find a strict proofs that allah exist. it's a very very good web site!!!.
Hi
RaMo
Yes, Huran Yahya is a great author, the author of many Islamic Books, PRoving the existance of god. and a whole lot of others.
timothymartin
God is Super! Very Happy
Bikerman
timothymartin wrote:
God is Super! Very Happy
This sort of posting adds little to the debate and simply takes up space. Try to have a point when you post and say something meaningful.
alvarorojas4
I think that there is a God.

But the religions start to confuse all and create conflicts...
spinout
Better be superstition! Look at todays paper - pain everywhere!!!
War, so much war!

Ok, God of war - sounds like a game of some sort... probably the most realistic title ever!
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