FRIHOSTFORUMSSEARCHFAQTOSBLOGSCOMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


Should Lord of the Flies be taught in schools?





blackheart
Having just read it - I think it should. It's just human nature, with a realistic out-come.

People do eat each other when the times get really desperate... has anyone seen the movie (true story) about the plane crash high on a mountain where the survivors ate the dead (instead of starving)?
Even if you sit there and say you'd die before you did that, if you were in that situation you wouldn't be in you're right mind.

Grusome, maybe - but in year 10 I think we need to start taking reality as adults - instead of being constantly sheltered.

Thoughts, anyone?
phileplanet
blackheart wrote:
Having just read it - I think it should. It's just human nature, with a realistic out-come.

People do eat each other when the times get really desperate... has anyone seen the movie (true story) about the plane crash high on a mountain where the survivors ate the dead (instead of starving)?
Even if you sit there and say you'd die before you did that, if you were in that situation you wouldn't be in you're right mind.

Grusome, maybe - but in year 10 I think we need to start taking reality as adults - instead of being constantly sheltered.

Thoughts, anyone?


I didn't like it at first but it ended up being a pretty exciting novel. It is quite gory but we're not living in a fairy land or something.
tim_s
In the UK it's taught in almost every secondary school as standard. It hadn't really occured to me that it was not suitable. I thought it was a really good book- although spending so much time over-analysing its content in school did rather spoil my appreciation of this for quite a while. It is well written and quite original too.
zebrabongo
I think it could be a good book for older teenagers ( 17-18 ), but you have to look deeper than “we eat other people when there is no other food”.

The book is about, in my opinion, how people can act in total polar opposite to their normal moral and social guidelines when put in an extreme situation.

There is a message that we can’t lose our humanity and go back to “might makes right” just because we are afraid to stand up an voice an opposing opinion.

We have seen this throughout history, for example in Germany during World War 2, in Rwanda in 1994 and I have to say in USA since the terrorist attack in 2001.

It’s not easy doing the right thing, but the alternative is unthinkable.
Jayfarer
Heck yeah.

Banning it would be a ridiculous form of censorship that I hope we've moved past as a society. Yeah, it's dark and violent, but it's also a well written story with intense themes and ideas. It's not the 40's anymore. We shouldn't ban any well written books in school just because we don't want students to be exposed to certain things. If it has some value, then let people read it if they want to.
blackheart
zebrabongo wrote:
I think it could be a good book for older teenagers ( 17-18 ), but you have to look deeper than “we eat other people when there is no other food”.


I only focused on that because I posted this topic directly after a conversation with an anti-LOTF teacher... and anti LOTF's main point is generally that one aspect of the book (well, movie).
Tasukii
Ive studied it in school, and I've seen the movie in school too, the book is very deep and I was taught very well the true meaning of it in my class
Talk2Tom11
The book lord of the flies should be read in school i feel because it is a realistic take on life of people were put in the situations that they were put in.

I feel we would teach more reality in school and less fictions. Maybe then students will be able to deal with the real world and they won't make everything seem like it is the end of the world.
hades9366
I'm a high school English teacher in Aus. Most of the schools I've taught at have copies of it in their collections and I think it's still taught fairly regularly. Where it's not taught I think it usually has more to do with an individual teacher's preference/bias.
Blaster
I read the book last year and it wasn't the worst I ever read but I wouldn't read it again.

As for it being in schools maybe like in 8th or 9th grade it would be good. I read it in 7th grade but I lost intrest.
Snailfox
Lord of the Flies rocks. It's the decay of man in 200 pages. At least it was 200 pages when I read it... Confused
nOScott
i read this book, it was pretty messed up, but what ever
Yjaxygames
What is Lord of the Flies? I've never heard of it.
horseatingweeds
I won’t ruin it for you in case you want to read it. It is about this group of boys that get stranded on an island with no living adults. They end up going a savage bit by bit. I is sort of a human nature without the restraints of government. I would suggest it.

As for teaching it schools, I think it would be a wonderful replacement for “catcher in the rye”.
sciondestiny
blackheart wrote:
Having just read it - I think it should. It's just human nature, with a realistic out-come.

People do eat each other when the times get really desperate... has anyone seen the movie (true story) about the plane crash high on a mountain where the survivors ate the dead (instead of starving)?
Even if you sit there and say you'd die before you did that, if you were in that situation you wouldn't be in you're right mind.

Grusome, maybe - but in year 10 I think we need to start taking reality as adults - instead of being constantly sheltered.

Thoughts, anyone?


I think it is a pretty good book too and it shoudl be taught especially since it shows the animal instincts of humans. I think if any course in secondary schools should use it it would have to be those phsychological courses, they could benefit alot from it.

I read it for English, so we studied the language a bit ands how the writer portrayed the boys. We also studied its history as the book was a miniscule version of what was really happeneing out there >> i.e. World war II.

But then again if you ask me I would not eat people even if I was about to die. Why? I think because if God wants me to die than he will take me away yet if he wants me to live he will always help out those in need and will give them something that helps them to survive.
tolgaist
Unfortunately I haven't read that book but ref your message, I could say that you will never know when it comes to death. Even the slimmest person in the world fight to death if his/her life is in jeopardy.

When a great earthquake happens we have news about people who remained life by the Act of GOD and by drinking muddy water that leaks from radiators. it is a fact for everyone to consider I think.

Have a good day.

Tolga ÖZBEK
aerialdreams
This book was taught in the 9th grade for both of the high schools that I attended, so it never occured to me that it wouldn't be taught else where. Although I never liked the book, I agree with most people here that it should be taught. It really gives you insight on people's behaviors, and the id/ego that's in everyone (<- I think that's what it was.... It came from Freud). I think the book should be taught a little later though... like, instead of in the 9th grade, it should be taught in the 10th, since it is somewhat gruesome.
DarthSilus
Censoring books is always a touchy subject.

Yet the question here is whether it should be taught.

In my opion, assigned reading can be very damaging and negative, so for that reason alone, no, I don't think it should.

Assigned reading rarely works. Either you read it or you don't... and that's about it. I think the sloution is that a child just has to read a book, and than report on it as proof of reading it. Problem solved.

But this is besides the point. I feel that censoring has limits. Whereas it is inappropriate to teach a "graphic" novel, the logical reason they aren't taught is because they have little or no literary value. Thus, as long as the book is a landmark of sorts, I feel tecahing it is always permissable. Kids will have to face the dark side of life sooner or latter, and you can't always protect them. Thus, introduce it to them while you still can deal with the results.

That's my two cents worth... or loose change of some sorts.
SunburnedCactus
Without doubt it is important for children to read as much as possible, as it does wonders for the mind. A 'controversial' book should not be discouraged as it allows them to learn about some of the issues in life which they will eventually encounter anyway, and gives them the opportunity to consider their own views on the subject.
hades9366
SunburnedCactus wrote:
Without doubt it is important for children to read as much as possible, as it does wonders for the mind. A 'controversial' book should not be discouraged as it allows them to learn about some of the issues in life which they will eventually encounter anyway, and gives them the opportunity to consider their own views on the subject.


I agree and I think that's the perspective of most English teachers. Everybody has to face the darker parts of life at some point and learn to deal with the issues they present. Why wouldn't parents want their kids to do that in a situation where they have a better chance of understanding/digesting/dealing with these issues by discussing them with their peers in the classroom.

As long as a novel offers some insight into the issues that it presents then I think it's worth examining. There are texts that are inappropriate for the classroom but this isn't one of them.

A novel I wouldn't teach in class, even though I think it's a great read, is Battle Royale. For anyone that hasn't read or seen it. It is a Japanese sci-fi/drama novel and movie about teenagers forced by the military to battle to the death on a remote island. It's fairly heavily derived from Lord of the Flies without any of the insight and ten times the gore. I loved it.
lessthanchet22
I believe that lord of the flies is a book that was written to be read in school
greywanderer
I read Lord of the Flies on my own when I was twelve and even at that time, I felt it was an important work which talked about important issues. I agree with other posters that its controversial character only gives us more reason to read and discuss it in school.

But how gory and controversial is it really? I mean, violence is so commonplace in the world of adolescents these days, at least in images: like TV and videogames. The average shoot-em-up videogame has a lot more lack of morals and bloodspilling than Lord of the Flies. I think our contemporary society is desensitized to blood, killing, and even cannibalism.

For this reason, Lord of the Flies is not scary and should be talked about!

Some issues of discussion culled from the Lord of the Flies: Why is violence so entertaining? We live in a world that never seems to see any real peace between nations and even among our own fellow citizens. Why is that? Are we happy with that? What would happen if a band of girls fell on the island instead of boys? Would the story be different? What would our world be like if all of our political leaders were women?
EVILSKAAP
THERE IS A BIG DEBATE AMOUNGS STUDENTS HER IN (sorry ) south africa, wheather to get the book in highschools. The real issue is the morals that are being questioned, is it ever justified to eat someone els?, and so forth. So is there really anything immoral to the book, or is it just life? In the movie, the eating of the dead was the absolute last resort. SO whats the issue? NJOY
blackheart
EVILSKAAP wrote:
THERE IS A BIG DEBATE AMOUNGS STUDENTS HER IN (sorry ) south africa, wheather to get the book in highschools. The real issue is the morals that are being questioned, is it ever justified to eat someone els?, and so forth. So is there really anything immoral to the book, or is it just life? In the movie, the eating of the dead was the absolute last resort. SO whats the issue? NJOY


To me - it's just life.
More than anything the book's about rules and moral guideline of society. The difference between those that follow them because it's right (Ralph) and those that do so only because if they don't they'll get in trouble (the rest).

If you left society behind - would you stick to the rules? Or would you go for out-right anarchy?
wowz
Well I read it when I went to high school and I'm pretty sure it is still part of the ciriculum. It is a good book and it does teach a lot - it shows what can become of people when isolated. They form their own government/social classes (some were considered higher than others), organization (the conche shell), their own 'beliefs' (the pig man - actually the captain and the little dances they did), and even killed.
If nothing else it is very interesting and teaches many life lessons. It's farced on tv enough, why not let kids read the actual book? Then have them tell us what they have learned from it, what they think of it, etc.

Quote:
In my opion, assigned reading can be very damaging and negative, so for that reason alone, no, I don't think it should.


This book didn't adversely affect anyone I know. There are far more damaging things out there that kids will be thinking about - not the book. Once they leave the classroom, the book is just a book. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't read the LoTR books because I was forced to read them in school - I hated HAVING to read certain things.

I very much disagree that this book is damaging. I saw the movie (the old one) and read the book - both at a young age too. Everyone in my school did. Those people that have had problems or were 'damaged' - it had nothing to do with this book. The book is no where near as bad as many people have made it out to me. People get killed in movies and on tv everyday - our kids are used to it (as unfortunate as that may be).

It goes back to the basics, primal instinct. It's real, not superhuman. I think that's what makes it so terrifying to so many. It's not altogether impossible.
secretagenttomtom1388
I have yet to read the book, but I have talked to people who have read the book. I think that as long as we get taught that this stuff is the same as murder, even though it is human nature. I definetely think that people should be aware of this happening, even though it is super, super nasty. I studied the Mayans/Aztecs, and they had canabalistic tendencies, but we still learn about them in school. So really, it needs to be taught. Exclamation
tony
Lord of the Flies is a classic...it should definately be tought in schools. i read it 2 years ago and found the points it made extremely important and well-defended.
bassgs_17
Happy birthday to me!
Okay, back to the point...
I read LOTF in school, and found it was an okay novel, and I strongly feel that is perfectly fine to teach in school. However, I think that Star Wars novels by Timothy Zahn are a better choice, as few students are competent enough to get all the possible themes out of LOTF.
So, in conclusion, they can teach this book, as long as the students put up with it... -_-'
-Aquastrike
lukeropro
Wow that's some deep thoughts! Doesn't matter, I'm living in Singapore and although they adopt the british way of teaching, Lord of the Flies has not been taught here.
Gates
Yeah in my civics class we watched the movie as an example of a state of nature
nealio1000
i have heard rumors of the movie having nudity (of the boys). kids might not wna tot see that in school. the book is supposed to be very good and i think it should still be read
otaku
It's almost more a classic than lord of the rings. It needs to be taught. It's true life, and you can't shun real life.

I love the book. I've read it twice. (not in school). I think we have to read it in 10th.

As for the rumors of nudity, I don't know truely. I haven't seen the movie, but it's in my Netflix que. But have you ever seen Hatchet, it's a book/movie about a boy living in the wild. In the movie they have a nude scene in the movie, but it's not gross or over done. It's just a simple shot of him taking a bath. You wouldn't go swimming in a lake or taking a bath in a lake with your clothes on?

I can't wait to see the movie. It's an awesome book.
Jorge
I don't really see how a book can "be immoral", to be honest... Same with any use of language, really. My behaviour can be immoral, but even that...

LOTF is a book that's extremely visual: I read it about 14 years ago and most of it is still very fresh in my mind. I also really enjoyed it, and later read a lot of Golding's other works, most of which go at a slower pace. They all, however, raise very important questions about what it means to be human beings, and where morality comes onto the stage of civilisation.

The fact that some people and institutions can ask whether or not it should be prohibited from being taught is WORRYING! For now it is not a work of art we are censoring, but the minds of future generations. How can one seriously consider a question like that? Now, if we would ask the same question regarding, say De Sade's writings, or Pasolini's "Sodom", sure you've got a point -- but not Mr Golding... I would humbly advise you to tackle more pressing matters than the rather trivial one of LOTF's potential danger to young minds. (Remember Socrates' ordeal?)
noexes89
Quote:
i have heard rumors of the movie having nudity (of the boys).


Oh yea, in the 1963 version, but they guys were like seven. It was more national geographic than anything. I think it is suposed to show them getting more and more wild as time goes on.

I saw the old movie in my government class for state of nature as well. My teacher for that was a nutso, he warned about the nuidity but made fun of the "ew" people.
Scott
I love Lord of The Flies, It's one of the only books I've read in school that I've really enjoyed. It's is really interesting in terms of sociology and government.

I think I've seen both the movies, they are ok I guess, the old version is definitley the better I think.
quicksilver4648
Lord of the Flies is a great book. I see no unsuitable material. I read it as a freshman last year and I didn't see anytihng. Unless you are a religious freak or sometihng that believes all humans are perfect. I personally enjoyed it. The story can also be quite symbollic.
andrewwallis
It's a teaches that kids can be cruel!
candycakes
I definetly think this book should be taught in school. While I have not read it, I feel strongly on this issue of banned books. I don't believe any kind of book should be banned. You cannot bar others from reading a pure form of expression through words, just because you yourself do not feel it to be of appropriate material. Yes, some books indeed should have age limits placed upon them, but no book should be banned. One person's judgement should not decided the fate of thousands. Take Black Beauty for example, it is banned because of the reason of "animal cruelty". I think that is absurd. You cannot protect your children or other people's children from the facts of life. They have to understand and accept these things for themselves. Can you believe there was something in the news a couple years ago about an elderly couple who never knew how to have sex? They had to go through sexual training. Again, ridiculous, but such things do exist. Another issue is Harry Potter. That book is banned in so many places because of its "satanci connections". I'm really sorry, but you must have a pretty pathetic view of your own child if you think that after your child reads it he's going to turn satanic or run around with wands trying to kill all "muggles" in sight. Get real.
XxGunner
i think it should be read in school because its very realistic and interesting...its also informative in its ways.. and shows the outcome of savagery. since i just read it i found it amusing and very heart breaking to hear about some of the characters deaths...very sad but effective Smile
jongoldsz
blackheart wrote:
Having just read it - I think it should. It's just human nature, with a realistic out-come.

People do eat each other when the times get really desperate... has anyone seen the movie (true story) about the plane crash high on a mountain where the survivors ate the dead (instead of starving)?
Even if you sit there and say you'd die before you did that, if you were in that situation you wouldn't be in you're right mind.

Grusome, maybe - but in year 10 I think we need to start taking reality as adults - instead of being constantly sheltered.

Thoughts, anyone?



I think schools should teach about it. I finished reading LOTF about a month ago and I think it shows a view on humanity that other books don't show. LOTF is the opposite of To Kill a Mocking Bird by Harper Lee, so you should read one book after another and then take a side.
inscribed
I totally think that Lord of the Flies should be taught in schools. It is a horrendously educational and well written book, as well as a classic. I mean, in my school they are using materials like Macbeth to teach, but they wouldn't allow Lord of the Flies to be used, which in my eyes is completely absurd, because Macbeth is just as bad as Lord of the Flies, if not worse.

It's something that shows human nature, and, as it's been said in this thread before, it is something that you can't really call 'immoral'. It's a book for goodness sake. It's something that someone wrote because they felt the need to get it out of their system. The whole idea of bookbanning is absurd. -raves-
sniffass
It;s not so long ago that I was taught this book in some Uk secondary school. We read throught the book together and watched seversal different movies
based on the novel.
I don't think the thought that it was too old for us ever cropped up. Especially the issue
of eating one another, we found it kind of funny. At that age we were almost
all watching adult rated mavies, where you hear the worst language,
and see the worst violence, we also played all sorts of "appealing"
console games. And we came out non-the worse. So unless they can find us
more interesting material to teach then Lorf of the Flies is OK. We probably would have preferred reading about that air crash where people ate each other.

Gabe
taz161999
wow!!! I just read this book last year in school and it was the best book i ever read. younger children should not read it at all because it would give them ideas, bad ideas. i was 16 when i read it and i knew not to try and kill people or anything like that so it didn't really make a difference. in my opinion it should only be taught in high school. maybe in middle school but i'm not sure what they are doing now. i loved this book and i hate books in general because they don't interest me. this book really interested me and it should stay in schools forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kam311
Graphic nature aside, it's a great well written novel. I've always enjoyed reading it, and I think it's a good reading to encourage people to consider the darker side fo human nature - what they would do in a similar situation. Great book all around.
P.S. - I guess you coudl argue that it shouldn't be taught to children below a certain level of maturity - one where they couldn't handle heads on sticks and a fat kid getting killed in a horrible way. But I'll save my breath on that for another time...hehehe
blackheart
inscribed wrote:
I totally think that Lord of the Flies should be taught in schools. It is a horrendously educational and well written book, as well as a classic. I mean, in my school they are using materials like Macbeth to teach, but they wouldn't allow Lord of the Flies to be used, which in my eyes is completely absurd, because Macbeth is just as bad as Lord of the Flies, if not worse.

It's something that shows human nature, and, as it's been said in this thread before, it is something that you can't really call 'immoral'. It's a book for goodness sake. It's something that someone wrote because they felt the need to get it out of their system. The whole idea of bookbanning is absurd. -raves-


Lol - I'm doing Literature 1 and 2 in VCE - which means I'm doing Macbeth too... along with 5 other books, a film and a play...
ontop of the two books and film i'm doing in plain old english... (which includes LOTF)
benwhite
My old school taught to 12 and 13 year old children, and in hindsight I think it was the perfect age. It was old enough to discuss and young enough that it served as a good bridge between reading books like Tuck Everlasting, The Giver, etc and The Odyssey, Faulkner, etc. etc.

Its level of violence was strong enough that readers become affected, but not so strong that they feel unable to continue.

The movie with cannabilism that was mentioned previously was made in the early 90's and is called Alive, if I remember correctly. Of course there have been other movies with said themes more recently, but the film concerning standed survivors of a plane-crash is the one above.
jawker
They don't really teach that book here in our city and maybe in my country. But we have other novels which really would the same ideas or lessons. We also had that movie that crashed on the mountains and they ate each other up as a class film viewwing with reaction papers. I do believe most of the books have the same ideas only it is presented in various ways. God bless!
Ultima1080
Lord of the Flies is really a great book. I was taught it back in High School and I'm honestly really glad I was. Parts of it are rather messed up, but sadly, thats more than likely how people would act if they were just thrown on some island and forced to co-exist. I did like the symbolism though, it was great and there was sooooooooooooooo much of it. Around every corner, something can mean something else (such as the Lord of the Flies himself/herself/itself). If this book is banned from schools...frankly I'd be pretty pissed. There is nothing wrong with the book that should keep it from being taught.
theeto
My classmate had an prjoect about the book. nad he thinked it was great. and i see nothing wrong with the book
Koi Fish
Lord of the flies is taught at my highschool to sophmores. They all have to read it, discuss it, and do a pretty large report on it. It wasnt taught till i was a senior though.
ONi-
My brother had to read this book when he was in 11th grade for phycology. I think it is fine, as long as it is 8th Grade+. When there dudes shanking eachother on an island, while chanting beast, it just seems a little bit more mature. I dunno, that is just my oppinion.
nopaniers
Lord of the Flies was one of the only good books that I read in school. There's no way it should be banned. If more English books were chosen because they were great reads, with real issues in them, then school would have been so much better.
bdoneck
Lord of the flies is taught in my school Wink and in other schools that its not taught in, it definately should. throughout history and english classes in high school a main focus is human nature and lord of the flies is all about human nature so there you have it Wink
sponguy
Lord of the flies is a novel that should not be left out of the classroom. Whether or not a young reader takes all the possible meaning from the text is not important. There is a benefit to the young person everytime they are provided with an opportunity to gove some thought to a idea that they would not have otherwise had. I know I took very few life lessons and facts from my education. Instead I developed a reality that I could approach critically and with an able mind, and wasn't stunted by an unfamiliarity with deep, sometimes troubling ideas that I was unable to give some thought too. Thumbs up to Lord of the Flies.
Parent
In my opinion, Lord of the Flies is a perfectly fine read for high school students. However, if you were to introduce this book to a middle school class, the story turns. Personally, we read Lord of the Flies [ENG10AP] and I found nothign wrong with the "violence" or "profanity." It's a book, come on. Golding did an awesome job at creating this story, and as far as I believe, every high school student should read this book, you will not regret it!
Ray Gravin
I havent read the book yet : ) I moved alot as a kid so i missed out on alot of stuff like that! I agree that children should not be shelterd to much though.

I dont know how it is in other countries, but in america children develop far slower then they ever have these days. Im not saying physicaly but mentaly. We have far less need to ween our childrent these days I guess. I could see how this kind of behaviour will become a weakness for our nations population. Children need to be educated about the darker sides of our existance ... but in an apropriate way.
toddgoings
this is a simple study in human behavior. Question to me is should we teach human behavior in school? Well we do have social studies but that doesnt really hit on behavior. I dont know if it really matters one way or the other
carlokes
Hum...i've never heard about this book before or at least by its original name but now i'm very curious about it so i think i'll buy the damn book and read it.
In my school days (and also nowadays) in my country (PORTUGAL) we read the old classic of our literature which are pretty good in fact but i thinko that reading something more "updates" with a vision of the present state of thing i think it would also benefit the younger minds !!!
carl005
To ban the book would be rather silly. Aside from them raping the pig and some of the death, it is not that bad. I think it is essential that people read and understand the message of the book. It shows that man is not perfect and when they're forced out of everyday society into the wilderness, there will be a definit culture change. One cannot culturely survive in the jungle acting as if it were a city. This culture shock can reduce even the most well reasoned human to an almost animal state. Savage and lacking with reason, and in the greater scheme of things- focused only on the survival of the individual even if their intentions seem to be to help others.
blackheart
carlokes wrote:
Hum...i've never heard about this book before or at least by its original name but now i'm very curious about it so i think i'll buy the damn book and read it.
In my school days (and also nowadays) in my country (PORTUGAL) we read the old classic of our literature which are pretty good in fact but i thinko that reading something more "updates" with a vision of the present state of thing i think it would also benefit the younger minds !!!


Lord of the Flies is an old book. My parents studied it in early highschool.
ntothes
I think that this should continue to be read in school. My senior english class in high school read it, and I really enjoyed it. If you think about when you were a kid, the way they act and adapt on the island is really realistic and, for me at least, some of the characters reminded me of people I know and how I think they might react to that situation.
Antip0p
this movie is not so good
benwhite
With all of the violence that kids are exposed to, I think having them read and discuss violent themes intellectually would be stimulating and productive. If kids are playing Grand Theft Auto and watching PG-13 and R rated movies at middle-school age, it would seem sort of strange that there would be an outcry at reading the book. Sure, it might make some students uncomfortable, but not in the sort of way that is personally damaging like racist and sexist literature can be. Now more than ever it's important to discuss those themes in an educational setting, instead of just dismissing or acquiesing to them. There certainly weren't any problems in my middle school when teaching it.
ericbobson
As a 14 yr old myself, I thought the book would be challenging and interesting for adults to read. I often find that we teenagers are caught in the 'trap' of having to respond to and take responsibility for our actions in the adult world while at the same time being seen as too immature to hold our own opinions and views in the 'grown up' world. Of course a story like Lord of the Flies could never take place if there were adults around and this is olmost an example of these pressures stifling the views and creativityof children. Anyone agree?
mikeymowse
If there is one thing that should not be censored, I would have to say books. The written word should never be censored. As far as "teaching" it in the schools, I think that at any age level is appropriate. In high school however, the students will be able to understand the deeper meanings and values that the book has to offer. It is an excellent read, one of the only books I remember from high school and have considered reading again. The movie is also very good. I agree with those that admit that it would be a humans rightful last resort, to eat those that are already dead. I would not kill in order to survive (unless I really didn't like that particular individual). However, one cannot truely say what one would do in a situation like that, because everyone acts differently and everyone acts differently when put into stressful, life threatening situations. A decision you make in a stressful situation could still be completely different than a decision made in a life or death situation. No one can completely comprehend the state of mind one may be in when put in that sort of situation, especially if one has never been in that situation before. Those that come out alive in the end, are the fittest.
zplitstonez
Yes i have watch that movie, it's good, a very nice one. It has a valuable lessons that we must not ignore. We must not give up. We are here for a reason. Live life to the fullest. ENJOY Life. Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. GOD BLESS US ALL!
Takayukiko
I'm now 16 now, and i've read it when i was 14.
I was thrilled and horrored when I first read the book.
I thought it was too dark for a fourteen years old boy.
But now i come to think of it, it was the first novel that has "dark side of human" clearly written........
and now it think it IS written to be taught at school.

i'd really like to read it again in English(oridinal) , and i think i'm gonna order it on Amazon.co.jp as i only can get Japanese version , kind of censored, here...
Garnet
I don't think this is a great book for elementary students, but I support it for highschool. I'm all about not sheltering teens from the real world - I'd like to see people take a good look at nagative events and human nature so history doesn't repeat the same horrors we've seen so far.

I'm not sure I agree his portrayal of what would really happen is accurate. They're situation wasn't really that extreme - they did have food available (pigs, fruits etc) and there was space and all that. So cannibalism was an extreme they didn't have to reach, at least not during the time they spent on that island. These kids' problem wasn't the island - it was the way the decided to act without adults to monitor them. They made decisions about what was ok without thinking deeply about whether or not it was right. I really don't think that this situation would be re-created in a real plane accident.
I do wonder if girls would have acted the same though if he wrote a book about them.
barkman
First of all, I'm not ragging on anyone here, just the funny question of whether or not people should study Lord of the Flies in school.

Why not read Lord of the Flies? I don't think I've ever heard anyone justify a reason not to. By asking such a question, most people are looking for a reason not to do something. Lord of the Flies is a fine book. There's a pretty good chance that none of the kids reading it will really understand the message at the time. In fact, they may never learn the lesson. But they may, and that's why we educate. We teach, not because through us people will learn, but because without us, few will ever try to learn. People should read many books, even bad ones, and look forward to learning something from all their experiences.
blackheart
barkman wrote:
First of all, I'm not ragging on anyone here, just the funny question of whether or not people should study Lord of the Flies in school.

Why not read Lord of the Flies? I don't think I've ever heard anyone justify a reason not to. By asking such a question, most people are looking for a reason not to do something. Lord of the Flies is a fine book. There's a pretty good chance that none of the kids reading it will really understand the message at the time. In fact, they may never learn the lesson. But they may, and that's why we educate. We teach, not because through us people will learn, but because without us, few will ever try to learn. People should read many books, even bad ones, and look forward to learning something from all their experiences.


How could we study the book, without understanding it? lol.
barkman
I hope you don't actually wonder how one can study a topic without afterward understanding it. Mr. T would have something to say about people who think they have it all figured out.

Specifically, with Lord of the Flies, you've already seen a variety of misconceptions posted on this board (among good posts, to be sure). And typically, it's the person who thinks he's cornered the author's intentions who is furthest from the true intent. Nonetheless, I can tell from your "lol" that your cornering of the truth is bang on.
idrather_not
blackheart wrote:
barkman wrote:
First of all, I'm not ragging on anyone here, just the funny question of whether or not people should study Lord of the Flies in school.

Why not read Lord of the Flies? I don't think I've ever heard anyone justify a reason not to. By asking such a question, most people are looking for a reason not to do something. Lord of the Flies is a fine book. There's a pretty good chance that none of the kids reading it will really understand the message at the time. In fact, they may never learn the lesson. But they may, and that's why we educate. We teach, not because through us people will learn, but because without us, few will ever try to learn. People should read many books, even bad ones, and look forward to learning something from all their experiences.


How could we study the book, without understanding it? lol.


Isn't studying and understanding the same thing?
No, actually, it's not.
If you study, you're just looking at it. Technically, you can look at a book, flip through the pages, read it a couple of times, without actually getting something out of it. You don't necessarily have to apply it to life, which is usually the point of reading books.

..Now, understanding is on a completely different playing field.
When you can comprehend the author's intention for creating a book, then you truly understand it.

For example, we can assume Golding is suggesting a decline in our society by telling a tale of boys "planewrecked" on an island and the gradual transformations from Order to Chaos.

This conclusion could never have been reached unless the book was analyzed and applied to human nature.

In reference to reading Lord of the Flies in schools, I see no reason in not reading it. It has many themes that must be learned in life, so why not learn them now, as opposed to learning through experience.
As they say, "Do not learn from your mistakes, learn from the mistakes of others so that you do not make any."

And before I get any pricks, yeah, I know learning from your own mistakes is more effective.
blackheart
idrather_not wrote:
blackheart wrote:
How could we study the book, without understanding it? lol.


Isn't studying and understanding the same thing?
No, actually, it's not.
If you study, you're just looking at it. Technically, you can look at a book, flip through the pages, read it a couple of times, without actually getting something out of it. You don't necessarily have to apply it to life, which is usually the point of reading books.

..Now, understanding is on a completely different playing field.
When you can comprehend the author's intention for creating a book, then you truly understand it.


Part of studying the book is developeing the skills to understand what you read. When you study a book at school, you'd fail if you didn't actually understand it by the end of the year.
Basically - Lord of the Flies (in my analysis) was that it was a book making a statement on those who follow rules because it is right, and those who follow them for fear of punishment. (In the end, of course, Ralp is the only one who stays with the ways of the old world - believeing that one must always do as is right. The other boys only snap back into the old ways when a figure of authority enters the book again on the last couple pages).
Of course there's more to it than that, but I don't really want to relay what I wrote through-out the hour exam all-over again.

Anyway, yea - if you study a book and don't understand at least part of it's intended message by the end - then you clearly haven't been taught properly/well.
dexterius
I havent read it. I dont even know this book. Maybe not this original name. But it will be great if student will have to read a interesting book in school instead of those they have to read now Wink
ternoah
It's a good example of what people do when they want to survive

But I don't think the human abilities regarding cannibalism is

something you must teach to the children.

Maybe when you get on the subject you can talk about it with the children but

obligate that they must now what humans are capable of too survive no. If t

they watch the television they probably have seen the movie. Something to

talk about with there parents
kimrei
This is kind of odd, when I read the book I got a completely different message out of it to most of you.

I didn't read it for school, a friend of mine suggested that I read it (I was 14 at the time). Cannabalism I think is a minor issue (provided the person died before it came into consideration). What was far more shocking, and had me nervously glancing at my class mates for a long time after reading the book I think was the manner in which the underlying barbarity of the children arose and became a sort of standard and accepted form of behavior was the truly horrifying aspect of the book.

Look at it in relation to something such as the american military, I find service in a force that trains one towards and uses a person to kill other people is utterly disgusting (despite the fact the it's for "protection"). Yet young men and women find it an honour and a privlege to serve their country in a military fashion and their family and friends feel proud of them? (treading on thin ice).

The situation towards the end of the LOTF was for me the truly terrifying part. Fatty was killed by accident (or at least by mistaken delegation), but when the children set off after Ralph they intend murder.

Their morality has slipped but more importantly their culture has changed into one which condones murder.

More importantly the childrens world is a microcosm (an equivalent world on a smaller scale) of the world outside in which a war is or was taking place and fighters had digressed to the level where not only would they kill their counterparts (semi-justifiable as it was for self defence) but completely uninvolved children too (as is clearly illustrated as having happened in the cases of hiroshima and nagasaki when the atom bombs were deployed directly after wwII).

I feel that LOTF should most definitely be read in schools, but it should be taught in such a way that as much understanding and introspection may be dredged from it as possible, and that it should be taught at a young age, if children cannot understand the concepts in the book they should be taught to understand those concepts as this is (hypothetically) the purpose of schooling in the first place.
tdlinkin
I agree with everything that everyone has said. Lord of the flies is a good book. But the problem is that the book shouldnt be taught to younger kids becuase they are very prone to getting enfluenced by what they hear. The good thing would be, like some of you have said, To teach it to older people that wont get influenced by the books contents but by the message that it preachs. Idea Idea Idea
Shermanatortank
I believe the book was written to show how close people really are to being animals, in the book they tried making laws but it all went to hell. It is one of the classics that are used to let us know how close we can come to turning on each other in desperate times...and maybe try to help us think clearer if we end up in a similar situation.
xkarenflowerx
i did this a couple of years ago at school. . it was okay i guess :/ but gosh!!! the video was awful!!!

we had to watch the horrible scene where someone gets stabbed in the sea and oh!!! Crying or Very sad it was the really frightening film version.

why do they show such awful films at school????? argh Sad

and there's no way to escape, it's just. . film torture *runs off to cry and hide*

school is traumatic when they show awful videos!!!!!!!!!!!!

~

i'm sorry for digressing. . but lotf is good to be taught as long as they don't show the scary film.
sarahjlayouts
I was a T.A. for an English class last term and we had done Lord of the Flies the year before and I had really enjoyed it the year before but rereading it there were so many things I really understood a lot better. The symbolism and imagery in that book is way better the second time. It really is human nature, the things these kids went through. I strongly believe it should be taught in schools. It is probably a lot better on older students. I read it as a Sophomore and now just rereading it as a Junior a lot more make sense and mature wise I was much more ready for it.
christianksurfing
Has anyone tried to use a shell as a horn like they did i just can't do it
evanc88
Brilliant book. I don't think it's really offensive or abrasive or anything. Great book. I think it's a sort of cheaply written allegory at some points but I enjoyed it. I've read it a few times over and it's a good book.
xeroed
kimrei wrote:
Cannabalism I think is a minor issue (provided the person died before it came into consideration). What was far more shocking, and had me nervously glancing at my class mates for a long time after reading the book I think was the manner in which the underlying barbarity of the children arose and became a sort of standard and accepted form of behavior was the truly horrifying aspect of the book.


I agree with that.. When I read the book (in Freshman (9) year)I liked it up untill the end, and then I did one of there O_O and threw the book across the room... I continued to hate it up untill the end of my senior year (12) when my english teacher told us that it was making fun of another book that was taught in school at the time about these boys who are trapped on an deserted island, but remain perfectly civil and kind with their socks rolled up and their trousers clean. The point of the book I think is that the rules of society tend to break down when taken out of context... supersticions and the like come into play and we are left with our primal instincts again.
mrd00d
I read this book back in high school about 4 or 5 years ago and I loved the book, saw the movie afterwards (both, actually), and really enjoyed interpreting the many meanings to it. I'm very glad to have read the book. Wonderful read.
Praes
carl005 wrote:
To ban the book would be rather silly. Aside from them raping the pig and some of the death, it is not that bad. I think it is essential that people read and understand the message of the book. It shows that man is not perfect and when they're forced out of everyday society into the wilderness, there will be a definit culture change. One cannot culturely survive in the jungle acting as if it were a city. This culture shock can reduce even the most well reasoned human to an almost animal state. Savage and lacking with reason, and in the greater scheme of things- focused only on the survival of the individual even if their intentions seem to be to help others.


I agree!

The book boiled down expresses how one changes in life when approached with different scenarios and how we adapt.

Classic scene is the whole campfire issue. Kill the PIG!

HL Mencken expressed this also. "Every normal man must be tempted at tiimes to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin to slit throats."

Try it one day, not actually but figuratively speaking. It a great release of all that pent anger and miscomings.
FunDa
We did have an extract from this book for our English class years back. I liked it so much and I wanted to read the book. But then I forgot about it and only now I remembered the book. I'll surely go and read the book - when I get time.

The extract was really nice. I haven't read the whole book yet though.
palavra
i read the book when i was 20 years old.

i didnt like the subject and style.

i think 90% of highschool studens will not like it
blackheart
palavra wrote:
i read the book when i was 20 years old.

i didnt like the subject and style.

i think 90% of highschool studens will not like it


Most of the people in my class hated it. Most meaning everyone but me. (Not because of content how-ever, purely writing-style).

I just read through this post again and I do have to say that after having studied the book properly, some of my earlier posts seem dis-jointed and not-at-all what I think now. Lol - it's key them is that of how society and authority dictates our behaviour.

And just because students do not enjoy the book, does not mean there's no value in it. I loathe maths, but it would be stupid to say I don't need it.
palavra
[quote="blackheart"]
palavra wrote:

And just because students do not enjoy the book, does not mean there's no value in it. I loathe maths, but it would be stupid to say I don't need it.


you are right, but i think the book is not useful for students also.
"i tried to read it in english lang.
maybe because of my poor english ,i didn't like it" Confused

i love maths, Very Happy
bigdan
I have no problems with it being taught in schools. I had to read it when I was 14 (year 9 in high school), and its a great book. I can't see any issues with it being taught in schools.
eliantokaos
bigdan wrote:
I have no problems with it being taught in schools. I had to read it when I was 14 (year 9 in high school), and its a great book. I can't see any issues with it being taught in schools.


For seven years I've been a school books editor (McGraw-Hill Spain). Now I am working in Luxembourg.

I don't only think I should be taught (or at least strongly suggested): I also think that it should be given in a pack of books with these others:

Fahreneit 541 (R. Bradbury)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Animal Farm and
1984 (George Orwell)

...with many others, of course. But I think that these books could be used to prepare debates on the actual situation of the world (when I was 16-17 -now I am 35- my teacher did exactly this... and I have always been grateful to him for that).
evanc88
eliantokaos wrote:
bigdan wrote:
I have no problems with it being taught in schools. I had to read it when I was 14 (year 9 in high school), and its a great book. I can't see any issues with it being taught in schools.


For seven years I've been a school books editor (McGraw-Hill Spain). Now I am working in Luxembourg.

I don't only think I should be taught (or at least strongly suggested): I also think that it should be given in a pack of books with these others:

Fahreneit 541 (R. Bradbury)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Animal Farm and
1984 (George Orwell)

...with many others, of course. But I think that these books could be used to prepare debates on the actual situation of the world (when I was 16-17 -now I am 35- my teacher did exactly this... and I have always been grateful to him for that).


At my school, we have to read all of those books you mentioned except Fahreneit 451, but my teachers have pushed it for three years so far to get us to read it on our own.
ainieas
I'd support the notion to teach Lord of the Flies at school because in those formative years it is imperative that we teach the youngsters the value of responsibility. Also the book is a very true account of what happens when all rules and social bindings disappear. I think that not only the book's lesson be emphasized upon but also there should be an interactive session where the students might be asked to imagine themselves in the position of Ralph and the others and discuss what their own mode of action would have been.
Judgement
We actually read it in school and I liked it a lot. It was exiting and the fact that it was based on a true story was cool too.
missdixy
Yes, it should be taught. We have much to learn from it. At my high school, only AP level Juniors are allowed to read the book in class.
Afaceinthematrix
i was taught it in my sophmore year in high school. it's an important book.
roboguyspacedude
I liked LOTF and think it should be taught in schools because there is nothing in it that really shouldn't be a life lesson. BTW I read it twice. Once in 8th grade and once in 10th grade.
Holy
Lord of the Flies is a awful book in my opinion. The movie is even worse. d'oh! Can't believe I even watched it.
crimson_aria
My sister bought the book years ago when she was still in high school. I planned to read it since then but still haven't done so. Reading your posts motivates me to read it. I'd probably read it soon. I've watched the movie but as far as I remember, I wasn't able to finish it.
ujjwalshrestha
Lord of the flies ... think heard about it ..... It's a song from Iron Main .... don't know if the song is inspired from the book.
tomiwoj
Hmm... strange. Never hear of this one, too.
Ankhanu
ujjwalshrestha wrote:
Lord of the flies ... think heard about it ..... It's a song from Iron Main .... don't know if the song is inspired from the book.

You mean the song from Iron Maiden, recorded in, like, 1995? Yes the song is inspired by the book.
Tuvitor
I don't see why not. It's a good illustration of human nature run amok. In fact, I'm with eliantokaos and his choices. My sophomore high school english teacher had us read 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.
Radar
I read 1984 and Brave New World independently during high school, and while there are some key images and lines of thoughts that stick with you, there wasn't anything that ground-breakingly changed my view on humanity.

Don't get me wrong, there are lines of thoughts in there that are massively important, and say a lot about the human condition - I just never had a huge sensation of my eyes being opened. I'm sure other people did, and their value as books is hard to deny.

My experience of Lord of the Flies is limited. I think as far as classics on the human condition go, I think it's one of the... scarier books, in terms of it's specifics. I doubt it's good thing to be exposing chidlren to, unless your intention is to scare them about what we are capable of when left to our own devices.
Related topics
The worst book you've ever read
The lord of flies
Not Voting is Reasonable for People Who Want Freedom
Conservative Christian Dictionary.
Intelligent Design in Schools?
Evolution, the religion
Hello, I am the newest superhero!
LORD OF THE FLIES
How is religion harmful to society?
Frihost Writing Contest : THE RESULTS
Sex education to be taught in all primary schools
What Religion are You?
Philosophical Questions
Is Christianity less tolerant than Islam?
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Sports and Entertainment -> Literature

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.