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Al Quida





lordcody
Okay a week or two ago the US army bombed a defensless village claiming that a poerful Al quida leader was there. After they sift through the remains of the innocent they dont find what there looking for. I am for the war in iraq, but the US army is haphazardly attacking villages and killing every one, i dont like that. what do you think?
madsencarl
You spelt Al Qaeda wrong. I'm not Bush supporter (Personally, I reckon he's a fag with a wierd voice) but I'd rather them be bombed than us.
horseatingweeds
If our Navy boys bombed something, I don’t imagine there would be anything left to find.

On a more serious note, this is indeed part of war. The other option besides dropping a guided bomb right on the suspected chicken coup, would include vulnerable infantry moving on the target. If this were the policy the war in Iraq would be a mess.

If it is like many of the situation over there, after interrogating this fellow, intercepting this communiqué, or on a tip from this goat herder, it was determined that some sort of resource was being preserved in the said chicken coup.

Understanding that this enemy is well able to convince a man, boy, or girl to protect a chicken coup with every last breath, the US will not likely send its valuable and highly trained infantry out to be slaughtered. (G, what a concept) But will deal with the threat by other means. If it were in a generally, “secure” area of the country, surveillance and apprehension is the order of the day. If it is in some inaccessible area just waiting for pickup, drop a 2,000 pounder from 30,000 feet.

If your only counting bodies, it makes sense.
S3nd K3ys
lordcody wrote:
but the US army is haphazardly attacking villages and killing every one, i dont like that. what do you think?


I think you are mis-informed. You make it sound like they're throwing darts at a map of the ME and using that to decide who/where to attack.
Carupieara
Regular "collateral damage" I'm guessing. Evil or Very Mad
S3nd K3ys
Carupieara wrote:
Regular "collateral damage" I'm guessing. Evil or Very Mad


Hardly.
Carupieara
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Carupieara wrote:
Regular "collateral damage" I'm guessing. Evil or Very Mad


Hardly.


Then what would you call it?? Question
S3nd K3ys
Carupieara wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Carupieara wrote:
Regular "collateral damage" I'm guessing. Evil or Very Mad


Hardly.


Then what would you call it?? Question


I'd call it successful...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_al_qaida_attack

Quote:
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - At least four foreign terrorists died in the U.S. airstrike purportedly aimed at al-Qaida's No. 2 leader, the provincial government said Tuesday.
A statement by the administration of Bajur, the Pakistan's tribal region bordering Afghanistan, also said that 10 to 12 foreign extremists had been invited to dinner at the village hit in Friday's attack.



Quote:
"Four or five foreign terrorists have been killed in this missile attack whose dead bodies have been taken away by their companions to hide the real reason of the attack," the statement said, citing the chief official in the Bajur region where Damadola is located.

"It is regrettable that 18 local people lost their lives in the attack, but this fact also cannot be denied, that 10-12 foreign extremists had been invited on a dinner," it said.



Carupieara
S3nd K3ys wrote:


I'd call it successful...


Quote:
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - At least four foreign terrorists died in the U.S. airstrike .............

Women and children also died, triggering outrage........

It is regrettable that 18 local people lost their lives in the attack .....



Oh ya! Success written all over it.
S3nd K3ys
Carupieara wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:


I'd call it successful...


Quote:
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - At least four foreign terrorists died in the U.S. airstrike .............

It is regrettable that 18 local people lost their lives in the attack .....



Oh ya! Success written all over it.


Don't forget those 18 people are part of the same lot that invited the terrorists over for dinner. Possibly to discuss ways of killing MORE women and children, like they've been doing all along.

Yep. Success.
Carupieara
S3nd K3ys wrote:


Don't forget those 18 people are part of the same lot that invited the terrorists over for dinner. Possibly to discuss ways of killing MORE women and children, like they've been doing all along.

Yep. Success.


Maybe they should just take lessons from the US armed forces.

Quote:
WWomen and children also died, triggering outrage in this Islamic nation.


source:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_al_qaida_attack
S3nd K3ys
Carupieara wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:


Don't forget those 18 people are part of the same lot that invited the terrorists over for dinner. Possibly to discuss ways of killing MORE women and children, like they've been doing all along.

Yep. Success.


Maybe they should just take lessons from the US armed forces.

Quote:
WWomen and children also died, triggering outrage in this Islamic nation.


source:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_al_qaida_attack


Perhaps you missed the part about...

Quote:
whose dead bodies have been taken away by their companions to hide the real reason of the attack,


I realize you're trying to portray the US Military as baby killing barbarians in order to retract from the real truth about how it's the terrorists who are CONSTANTLY TARGETING WOMEN AND CHILDREN, but it's not going to work.
S3nd K3ys
*Bump*

The plot thickens...

This was front and center on the NYT website...



Problem is:

American Thinker wrote:
Ned Barnett is an expert on military technology, and frequently serves as a contributor to The History Channel on mil-tech issues. He has plenty of experience researching military ordnance. He told me:

Quote:
“Based on my extensive experience in researching military technology, I can verify that this is a 152mm or 155mm artillery shell – unfired – and by the looks of it, fairly old. It also looks like it has a fuse in it, suggesting that the guys in the photo are either ditch-water dumb or have a death-wish.

“At a glance, it’s hard to tell the exact caliber – 152mm or 155mm (they’re so close) but the Soviets tended to favor 152 (going back to WW-II) while we and the Brits, the French and most of the rest of the non-Soviet world (including, oddly, the PRC) preferred the 155. For all intents and purposes, they were functionally identical (but were not interchangeable). In caliber, this is also virtually identical to Naval 6” rounds (routinely used by the Brits, the Imperial Japanese Navy and the USN), but of course, it’s unlikely that the Pakistanis would unearth a Naval round not widely used since Vietnam (much more common in WW-I and WW-II) hundreds of miles from the nearest salt water.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5163

So is the NYT pressing any ol' piece of propaganda to roll out of al Quaeda's hands as long as it makes for exciting copy or have they simply betrayed the fact they're too damn stupid to comment on military matters?

Okay, it's an artillery shell, not a missle. It's unfired, but recovered as "evidence" from a damaged building which was attacked by missles.

All I know, is if this story is true, I want a car made of that stuff. Took out a building with barely a scratch. Even the fuse remains.

Knowledge; the unused tool of the left.
srdjan
I'm from Serbia and I wonder: Were there this many posts and debates when Belgrade and the rest of my country was bombed?
I mean, where ever I go, on any site with a forum, there's gotta be at least one thread, and there's gotta be at least 2 guys arguing who's right and who's wrong...
I tell you one thing, and you know it darn well already: killing people is wrong. collateral damage? yeah, it's easy to categorize it like that when you don't look the "damage" in the eye, when it doesn't have a name...
And I mean this for both sides in this conflict, no one is better here, they are both equaly evil, and should be punished for it.

So, please stop it, you're NOT helping anyone. You are not there, and all you have is propaganda as your source of info. And we all know what "good" propaganda can accomplish...
Soulfire
Yes, because the innocent lives lost of 18 people match equally to the potentially thousands of lives that could've been lost in those terrorists' plots.

It's tragic, yes, but by killing the innocent, they've spared many more innocent. Perhaps you should take your blinders off.
S3nd K3ys
Quote:
Empty graves found at Pakistan airstrike site
Jan 18 3:37 AM US/Eastern


Pakistani investigators say they found two empty graves at the site of a controversial US airstrike, a day after officials said up to five foreign militants died in the attack.

But there was no information about the identities of the insurgents who died in the raid on a remote tribal village, despite initial US intelligence reports that Al-Qaeda's Egyptian number two Ayman al-Zawahiri may be among them.

Officials said local militants may have shifted the bodies before burial to stop Pakistani or US authorities DNA testing the remains and finding out who was killed in Friday's missile attack.


http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/060118083332.rlt4lq5u.html

It's looking more and more like the US hit a justified target.
S3nd K3ys
Ruh Roh, Rorge!

ABCNews.com wrote:
Jan. 18, 2006 — ABC News has learned that al Qaeda's master bomb maker and chemical weapons expert was one of the men killed in last week's U.S. missile attack in eastern Pakistan.

Midhat Mursi, 52, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri, was identified by Pakistani authorities as one of three known al Qaeda leaders present at an apparent terror summit conference in the village of Damadola.


The jig is up!
gonzo
lordcody wrote:
bombed a defensless village


what kinds of villages can defend against bombing by anyone?

Is suicide bombing a defenseless busload of kids ok? What about suicide bombing a defenseless train full of people?

That aside for the moment, using the self interest of the indifferent is an excellent way to bring a swift end to (the tolerance of) terrorism.
Mithrandir
To srdjan:

I have looked the "damage" in the eye. I looked at this "damage" when it took down two towers and thousands of people with them. You're right, it doesn't have A name, it has thousands of names. The names of people who lost thier live simply for being an American. No one knows the truth more than those Americans who suffered from this terrible tradegy.

I'll bet you weren't complaining when OUR troops were putting thier lives on the line to liberate YOU. I have a close friend from Bosnia whose father was taken from her house in the middle of the night with no reason and kept a prisoner and tortured by Serbians. What have you to say to this?

My brother is in the millitary and I am proud of what he does. His work is vital to the survival of freedom and liberty. The people in the ME who have any relation or connection with the terrorists who started this war need to be killed. Be them terrorists themselves or friends of terrorists, their lives are forfiet.
S3nd K3ys
Mithrandir wrote:
To srdjan:

I have looked the "damage" in the eye. I looked at this "damage" when it took down two towers and thousands of people with them. You're right, it doesn't have A name, it has thousands of names. The names of people who lost thier live simply for being an American. No one knows the truth more than those Americans who suffered from this terrible tradegy.

I'll bet you weren't complaining when OUR troops were putting thier lives on the line to liberate YOU. I have a close friend from Bosnia whose father was taken from her hosue in the middle of the night with no reason and kept a prisoner and tortured by Serbians. What have you to say to this?

My brother is in the millitary and I am proud of what he does. His work is vital to the survival of freedom and liberty. The people in the ME who have any relation or connection with the terrorists who started this war need to be killed. Be them terrorists themselves or friends of terrorists, their lives are forfiet.


Wow.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesnt it? Nicely done.
Mithrandir
Thanks for the compliment Very Happy

I'm glad some one agrees!
srdjan
Wow, some perspective!
Please, I am a pacifist, and it is the people like you who get wars started. You are no better than the guy on the other side. He/she also has reasons to do what they did on the 11th of September...the same as you, only your point of view is different. Please prove that you are right, and they are wrong! Mathematically...Beacuse I say, no one is right!

And to emphasize my point...Do you really think your troops were liberating anybody on Balkans????? You are watching too much TV, and you are blind if you think America was protecting anything but its own interest (as it always does..) I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, if not, I'll gladly write it some other time..
And you wated me to say something about your friend's tortured family...Well who ever did it should be punished for it, and put to jail for life, or at least 10-20 years (since those are the actual laws), but not killed! I must say, you are as extreme as those Afgani ir Iraqi extremists, when you blame an entire nation for a crime commited in war...

Anyways, I don't think you, or anybody with a similar point of view will ever agree with me...As long as you believe in revenge, you will never be able to percieve the world as a pieceful place, without wars...
So I'll just stop right here.
S3nd K3ys
srdjan wrote:
blah blah blah


nopaniers
It is just plain immoral to bomb countries which are not even at war. It's not as if this was Iraq or Afghanistan. These bombings were on the US's own allies.
rwojick
The bombings are a violation to those people's rights to "life, liberty, and the Persuit of happiness".

People who kill absent any proper legal process are not "protecting", they are "pigs", pure and simple.
rwojick
If some plaintiff brings a dishonest written complaint to a Court then this "accuser" is the terrorist".

If the complaint is TRUE then the defendant is the terrorist.

If the Judge sides with either party and does not stay unbiased then the Judge is the terrorist.

Its a simple system complicated by IDIOTS
SunburnedCactus
rwojick wrote:
If some plaintiff brings a dishonest written complaint to a Court then this "accuser" is the terrorist".

If the complaint is TRUE then the defendant is the terrorist.

If the Judge sides with either party and does not stay unbiased then the Judge is the terrorist.

Its a simple system complicated by IDIOTS


I didn't realise it was all going on in a courtroom. Rolling Eyes
S3nd K3ys
Quote:
The bombings are a violation to those people's rights to "life, liberty, and the Persuit of happiness".


"those people" are not Americans, and if they are, they don't deserve the rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
nopaniers
In terms of basic human rights this violates many, including:

Quote:
Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 10.
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.


http://www.un.org/rights/50/decla.htm
srdjan
@sendkeys and the rest of the idiots with the same views on life:

your last post just proves my point actually, anyone with 2 brain cells can see that...you're getting personal, and now i know that i'm right...
your "arguments" actually sound like a bunch of 'blah's Laughing makes me laugh how pathetic some people can get standing up for their own stupidity...
Mithrandir
Without war there is no progress. War stimulates the economy, advances science and technology, and spreads democracy to nations whose people have suffered under the veil of non-democratic governments. With out war there can be no peace! Its plain and simple. I don't like war, I hate to see people being killed and their lives being destroyed but it is something that we can not stop. If we quit fighting for what we belive in then what have we become?
Valleyman
Mithrandir wrote:
Without war there is no progress. War stimulates the economy, advances science and technology, and spreads democracy to nations whose people have suffered under the veil of non-democratic governments. With out war there can be no peace! Its plain and simple. I don't like war, I hate to see people being killed and their lives being destroyed but it is something that we can not stop. If we quit fighting for what we belive in then what have we become?


Gandhi? You can not possibly believe that the only way to fight for what you believe in is to kill; if you do I invite you to look at all those wonderful examples that prove you wrong: Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, the "Orange Revolution" of Ukraine, the "Rose Revolution" of Georgia, the signing of the Magna Carta, the Protestant Reformation, the end of slavery in Britain, the expulsion of Syria from Lebanon, and countless others. It might have been possible to accomplish all those things through bloodshed, as you advocate, but the cost in human life would have been astronomical, and I doubt it would have done much for the progress of the various nations, even if they all succeeded in their goals.

The idea that without war there can be no peace may be true. However, if you look at the classically sighted example of a necessary war, World War II, and look at the cause of that war you find World War I, a definetly unecessary war.

Finally, the idea that war brings progress may also be true, but that same progress could be gained without war. If you think it is worth the carnage and terror of war so that we may progress just that much faster then I pity you for you world view.
srdjan
oh i know! i know!!

war stimulates economy, i saw that with my own eyes when the "liberating US troops" bombed the shit outta serbia with their old warheads (which btw had weakened URANIUM in em), and so now Bush can have his own brand new military budget, worth [b]!!!bilions!!![/b] of dollars (over 150, can't remember the exact number...) of course it's all for "defense" purposes, and the "war against terrorism"...what a load of horse shit!

a perfect example of how war stimulates economy...oh, and did that pass in Congress??
Soulfire
srdjan wrote:
oh i know! i know!!

war stimulates economy, i saw that with my own eyes when the "liberating US troops" bombed the **** outta serbia with their old warheads (which btw had weakened URANIUM in em), and so now Bush can have his own brand new military budget, worth !!!bilions!!! of dollars (over 150, can't remember the exact number...) of course it's all for "defense" purposes, and the "war against terrorism"...what a load of horse ****!

a perfect example of how war stimulates economy...oh, and did that pass in Congress??

It's ignorance like this that amazes me.
S3nd K3ys
Soulfire wrote:
srdjan wrote:
oh i know! i know!!

war stimulates economy, i saw that with my own eyes when the "liberating US troops" bombed the **** outta serbia with their old warheads (which btw had weakened URANIUM in em), and so now Bush can have his own brand new military budget, worth !!!bilions!!! of dollars (over 150, can't remember the exact number...) of course it's all for "defense" purposes, and the "war against terrorism"...what a load of horse ****!

a perfect example of how war stimulates economy...oh, and did that pass in Congress??

It's ignorance like this that amazes me.


It's a thin line between ignorance and stupidity, and srdjan has clearly crossed over it.
paul_indo
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Quote:
The bombings are a violation to those people's rights to "life, liberty, and the Persuit of happiness".


"those people" are not Americans, and if they are, they don't deserve the rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.


Up untill this point I could empathise with some of your views.

You are not doing your credibility much good with this sort of drivel.

Are only Americans entitled to human rights??

You seem to overlook the fact that there are two sides to every story. The American Government is not blameless. They have created much of this hatred aimed towards America. Do you forget that they once backed Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. In South America they have been involved in many covert and illegal operations and backed many dictators when it suited their purposes. When violence is used against someone they can easily justify to themself violence against the perpetrator and his allies, such as the U.S. Is'nt that what America is doing now? Justifying violence because they suffered violence.

You wouldn't be so happy if the colateral damage was your own family.
polarBear
You can't expect that the people YOU f***ed up will simply love you because you are America. It's not how it works.

And I'm really deeply, fully, totally sure it's only a matter of time until the US gets the message.
srdjan
@s3end k3ys and soulfire:

you really have some nerve (or no brains!) calling me ignorant and stupid.

i've been to one such place, where tons of low yield uranium warheads were dropped. The place was closed for public (its a part of the sea coast) for like 5 years, and military experts from different countries came to help out the government with means and ways to clean this (very beatiful!) part of the coast up.
i've been there and i've seen where all the dump went, i even have pics of it...so there, i can prove my point...

in case you didn't figure it out, my last post was sarcastic...maybe i should point that out for you...
Soulfire
Yeah, just please forgive the US for not supporting a terrorist organization.

Shocked

It's a shame we're the only ones to try and stop terrorism. Everyone else wants them to run off freely bombing and terrorizing people.
Lord Klorel
Since Bush has become president, the entire world was doomed.

If Bush haden't won the elections, than i think that the twin towers wouldn't be destroyed.

Bush is a magnet for terrorism. If Bush didn't attack Iraq than were those entire problems of attacks on soldiers, buildings, country's,... never happened.

The act of hate at this moment is not because of those cartoons.

It is just the latest link in a chain reaction that activated those entire hate campains.

Believe me if Bush is president OFF, then the world will find peace and of course cartoons about religions are not good, because everyone has a different vision in his religion.
S3nd K3ys
Lord Klorel wrote:


If Bush haden't won the elections, than i think that the twin towers wouldn't be destroyed.


Here is a prime example of ignorance in all it's glory. The attacks on the towers were planned LONG BEFORE BUSH got into office the first time.

Quote:
Bush is a magnet for terrorism. If Bush didn't attack Iraq than were those entire problems of attacks on soldiers, buildings, country's,... never happened.


There have been terrorist attacks against the US for over 30 years. Has Bush been in office that long? Damn, time flys.

Quote:
The act of hate at this moment is not because of those cartoons.


Oh. That's why tens of thousands of muslims are burning flags (and buildings) because of them.

Quote:
Believe me if Bush is president OFF, then the world will find peace


I think you've been indoors too long. I've heard lack of sunlight can cause serious mental degredation. Get out. Don't be afraid of the bright yellow orb in the sky!

The world hasn't found peace since the beginning of mankind. How is THAT Bush's fault? Oh. That's right. Bush is GOD!

Lol, and you think yourself a "lord"
nopaniers
Quote:
Gandhi? You can not possibly believe that the only way to fight for what you believe in is to kill; if you do I invite you to look at all those wonderful examples that prove you wrong: Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, the "Orange Revolution" of Ukraine, the "Rose Revolution" of Georgia, the signing of the Magna Carta, the Protestant Reformation, the end of slavery in Britain, the expulsion of Syria from Lebanon, and countless others.


Thankyou Valleyman for such an intelligent and well put post.
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