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Flash is for...?






Flash should be used in
Animations only
32%
 32%  [ 37 ]
Web Development Only
4%
 4%  [ 5 ]
Software Development Only
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
All of the above
61%
 61%  [ 69 ]
Total Votes : 113

clip
So what do you think flash is for? How should it be used? I'd really like to hear from you guys because this is the only forums that I've been where people hate flash so bad. I want to hear from you guys. So what do you think? Very Happy
sgwreviews
My opinion: Animations only
LukeakaDanish
My opinion: Keep it off websites and no-one will suffer. Wink
DX-Blog
My opinion: Banners are the maximum to use it for unless you are a pro in using flash, and with a pro I definately mean a pro, not some wannabe amateur which thinks he makes nice looking stuff with it.

Even a lot of sites for the bigger games which were released in flash have looked crap, same goes for sites as for movies and such. Flash just aint that awesome anymore, simple and clean is what you should be going for and now just exactly that is what the majority by far tends to have problems with whilst using flash.
Sappho
Ok lets categorize ppl a little:

1. Love flash, use flash, know flash, simply Flash PROs
( www.2advanced.com www.thefwa.com www.perfectfools.com www.fantasy-interactive.com ...and many others)

2. Love flash couse its trendy, its flashy, its neat, and end up overusing it with less to zero action script, too big and slow... Flash Wannabes, these ppl eventualy can grow up and become Flash PROs but most of em are self centered egocentrics that tend to opinion: "every criticism is a personal attack against me, i am the best u know shit." Its exactly these ppl that make Flash a bad name with their "Flashy" sites. So basically only very few and without that attitude will make it to PROs.

3. Hate flash couse they spent ages learning HTML, CSS, Javascript... and don't know Flash. Its understandable, they just hate it couse Flash designers attract potential customers. So instead of giving it a try and learn Flash they will go on forums and try to find "1000+1 reasons why not to use Flash" and just keep goin. Unfortunately they happen to miss two things, first is that most of the Flash PROs are excellent in HTML, Javascript, CSS, PHP too and really know what they are doing and why, second thing is that their absence of Flash knowledge renders some of their arguments rather stupid than constructive, i mean some of those: "u cant make this in Flash" arguments that actually can be done in Flash.

4. Hate Flash couse they go with the flame wave, these are worst couse they dont know shit, no HTML, no PHP, nothing they just try to sound sophisticated and smart. They use same arguments as the ones above but its impossible to discuss things with them (couse its hard to explain anything to them when they know shit Wink ) Keep em goin and ignore em.

5. Hate flash couse they are "old school", "minimalistic", another pretty common group. Personaly i dont have anything against em, its their style, they want it minimalistic, no problem let em. Wink I just hate some of their arguments like: "net was designed to be used this way", "Flash just simply isnt a web media", etc. i mean if we did think that way in other branches we would still have silent movies and black&white newspapers instead of magazines (yes there still are black&white newspapers as there will still be html pages).

6. Universal, these ppl just play with the technology, they mostly ignore flame wars or try atleast to bring an objective opinion (without much success, as we know how hard it is to be objective in a middle of flame war, and no one pays attention Smile ) Most of the PROs started in this cathegory, not talkin only about Flash PROs but basically all of em. These ppl are fluid and dynamic so they can go with anything that future will bring.

7. Ppl that didnt yet rank in any of above categories, let em choose, let em try, let em fall and let em fly. Very Happy

---

Sappho the Flash Goddess Wink
DX-Blog
8: Hate Flash since just about every single flash production looks crappy, is way too busy, too active or too slow. These people like pages with a solid design which can run with ease in just about any browser without having to install any additional plugins in order to let the site be accesible to all people. They do not like to see overactive and busy pages which distract the viewer from the content which it is all about and they do not wish to see constant animations done in between page switching and all to waste their times.


I think I would fall more into that group. Once flash users start to work more minimalistic instead of going full out and pumping tons of different things into their layout then perhaps flash will become a nice thing to see. But currently flash sites have like this standard of having flashy things, sound producing things, moving things, etc all over. It is not just in flash in which this is annoying, also in standard html pages. Once people start making an overload of flashing things and such and get moving things over the screen it aint pleasent to view the page.

The difference though is that with flash it is like a standard on just about every single site you see.

Like in example that 2advanced page, if you load the page for the first time it has like a downloading time of 2 seconds on the different pages, but that's not what you actually have to wait. Instead you're having to wait for about 10 additional seconds just to see some crappy animation on how the pages change and about a 15 second intro to get to see the page at all. Also you are starting with some dull repeating sound which has been set to on by default, even if you turn that to off there are still other sounds being produced. Besides that when you hover certain button it flickers before slowly fading colours, which is rather annoying to see. But to make it even worse, if you hover between view and subscribe on the first page over the offline link it suddenly acts up completely different and just changes white.


This is just in short why this 1 site isn't something which I'll browse. The main reason with this site being the time it takes to actually browse the pages.
Sappho
There is no such thing as group 8. Smile Please check sites like www.thefwa.com or www.fantasy-interactive.com and then speak again about clear, non flashy yet Flash design, those are excellent examples. Anyway believe me clients that come to me ask specifically for DYNAMIC content, they WANT the transitions u speak about, believe me i myself dont like these how we call it "Flashy sites" that makes same boring transitions everytime u click on something, these dull websites that just rape Flash, without imagination just for selfpurpose. Yet www.2advanced.com is something different, it started as one guy's vision of future of design, i can tell u with 90% success which site was designed by 2advanced when i see one, they just got their own style, i even kind of like it but not rank em on the top.

Once again when client comes to me and asks for Flash design my first question is like this: "isnt HTML better? U will get broader audience." (Its much easier to make a HTML page Very Happy ) And the ususall answer to that is: "No Flash is more suitable for our project/product/firm, we dont need broader audience, we need to make an impact that only Flash delivers." And i must agree with them there, personally i saw many Flash sites that had an impact on me, they were unique and really unforgettable. Something that is really hard to achieve with HTML (not sayin impossible Smile ) couse we dont have as many possibilities as in Flash to actually breath life into a website.

PS.: And about plugin, there is nothing easier than to install that one, like u arent installing codecs for films or new versions of browser, etc. Thats the most pathetic excuse. Wink

EDIT: (Just to add something)

Imagine a Black&White advertisement video clip, just plain text displayed for 5 seconds, and imagine a 5 second modern advertisement full of visual effects and sound of the same product. And lets show the first one in a channel that 10 million ppl can see, and show the second one on a channel that only 1 million ppl can see. What do u think which one will have a greater effect and impact on viewers, that they will remember. Wink
DX-Blog
I use VLC for movies, contains the codecs easily within. No, I don't apply additional codecs to other media players since they always tend to conflict with eachother Wink.

As for flash, got it installed on my laptop, but my desktop system doesn't have it installed. Also at college in example flash is something which isn't installed. Something which is integrated in default by the browser is something which you'll know everybody will be able to use, if it's not integrated in the browser though then there will always be systems which cant display it, so it isn't that pathetic of an excuse after all.

Although fantasy-interactive is better than 2advanced, I still don't like it. Personally I still find it too busy, besides that the pages still take a longer time to load than the average site without flash would do. It is a better site to check than 2advanced, that's for sure. But it won't be something to which I would return, for me the most important thing is that the pages load about instantly.

As for that fwa page, I would most likely have liked it much better if it would have displayed instantly instead of loading block by block from left to right with some annoying preloader infront of it. What looks pretty crappy is that the columns change of width, whether it's flash or not, it just looks pretty crappy if the basis of your layout changes when you switch pages.

The disabillity to select text is another thing which I never like on sites.



Edit: Not too long ago there was a whole series of TV-shows here which went on a strike, the reason behind it I didn't know. But instead of hosting their normal shows the people which usually presented the shows just sat down and the audience was being displayed from time to time. For the full hour that this lasted they got more viewers in total than what they would have gotten on any other day.

As you can see sometimes doing something out of the ordinary has a bigger impact than doing something which you see about daily.

If you would create a text only advertisement with no sound I think you will get a better attention by the user than if you would use some highly complicated advertisement movie for it. For the sole reason of the first being unusual, you just cannot ignore a commercial which is suddenly silent and displays no moving pictures or something.

You can also see this on advertisements which are supposed to attract a lot of attention, like for making donations and such. It's just about always static text, perhaps some image included of what the donation is for and no sound or something like that.
Sappho
Hehe, i did try to use VLC for movies too but never actually made the subtitles work there, so i used MPlayer which doesnt need codecs too. Lately i am kind of skin girl, totally got into makin skins for various apps as good experience so i changed player once more to BSPlayer (Kind of off-topic thou) Wink

Yea i know what u mean, when they installed comps at the Uni i went to they kind of forgot Flash (but yet i think there is some version of Flash player already in Windows, like 4 if i am not mistaken) so i wasnt even able to see my own page from school. U r right its a bunch of ppl worldwide that just cant watch Flash sites, but i am sure most of the Flash designers are aware of that. As everything its just about the +/- of using Flash, put em down read em few times for urself and then choose to use or not to use Flash, thats the question. Laughing I always use Flash when i think its not possible to express something with HTML/CSS/JS as i imagine it. Thats all, nothing more to it.

About the FI site, i think it loads really fast, yes its rich site (graphic wise) so the HTML version would prolly not load faster with all that images. Someone should test it, ask em to make a HTML version Smile)

Oh the preloaders, i kind of like em, better to look at some preloading bar while it loads than to blank page while some complex table layout of HTML page loads up. But thats subject to a personal taste of everyone.

PS.: U can set text to be selectable in Flash. Wink
Sappho
DX-Blog wrote:
As you can see sometimes doing something out of the ordinary has a bigger impact than doing something which you see about daily.


Yes but thats couse of the original idea not couse the actual implementation. I am pretty sure that someone can come up with simple HTML page yet with such an intriguing idea that will beat up many flash sites. Smile

DX-Blog wrote:
If you would create a text only advertisement with no sound I think you will get a better attention by the user than if you would use some highly complicated advertisement movie for it. For the sole reason of the first being unusual, you just cannot ignore a commercial which is suddenly silent and displays no moving pictures or something.


U r forgetting something lets imagine a block of advertisement containing 19 such plain text silent clips and 1 modern hi-tech video. Couse thats like the ratio of HTML/Flash sites nowadays. I can write down about 20 flash sites of various design companies this instant yet i would have problem to write down 3 that used HTML as their presentation.

DX-Blog wrote:
You can also see this on advertisements which are supposed to attract a lot of attention, like for making donations and such. It's just about always static text, perhaps some image included of what the donation is for and no sound or something like that.


Believe me i worked on a project for Charity organization, actually they use this plain clips/ads couse they cant afford the "modern" ones not couse they wanted to use em on purpose. Wink

PS.: Lets just say that there is space for Flash on the web as well as for any other type of media, yet if they will make Google in Flash i will be the first one to throw the stone. Smile
Marston
Flash is crap. It's the 'hip' thing to do, but, it's totally unaccessable. How do people with screen readers watch your 30 second over indulgence of random pictures flying around set to your favourite electronica music? Answer is: they don't. Search engines can't spider your flash content, and many people have flash turned off in their browsers. Additionally, how do people with text-only browsers, like Lynx and Links view flash? Again, they don't. There's no real reason you should use flash, unless you want to make a 'flashy' website. So far, I haven't seen one flash-based site that's had any worthwhile content. None.
DX-Blog
Sappho wrote:
DX-Blog wrote:
As you can see sometimes doing something out of the ordinary has a bigger impact than doing something which you see about daily.


Yes but thats couse of the original idea not couse the actual implementation. I am pretty sure that someone can come up with simple HTML page yet with such an intriguing idea that will beat up many flash sites. Smile

DX-Blog wrote:
If you would create a text only advertisement with no sound I think you will get a better attention by the user than if you would use some highly complicated advertisement movie for it. For the sole reason of the first being unusual, you just cannot ignore a commercial which is suddenly silent and displays no moving pictures or something.


U r forgetting something lets imagine a block of advertisement containing 19 such plain text silent clips and 1 modern hi-tech video. Couse thats like the ratio of HTML/Flash sites nowadays. I can write down about 20 flash sites of various design companies this instant yet i would have problem to write down 3 that used HTML as their presentation.

DX-Blog wrote:
You can also see this on advertisements which are supposed to attract a lot of attention, like for making donations and such. It's just about always static text, perhaps some image included of what the donation is for and no sound or something like that.


Believe me i worked on a project for Charity organization, actually they use this plain clips/ads couse they cant afford the "modern" ones not couse they wanted to use em on purpose. Wink

PS.: Lets just say that there is space for Flash on the web as well as for any other type of media, yet if they will make Google in Flash i will be the first one to throw the stone. Smile

There is a google in flash, made by your fantasy interactive Razz. Can check it at: http://www.rr.com/flash/index.cfm?startview=search , the opening of the links in popups is extremely annoying Razz.
Sappho
DX-Blog wrote:
There is a google in flash, made by your fantasy interactive Razz. Can check it at: http://www.rr.com/flash/index.cfm?startview=search , the opening of the links in popups is extremely annoying Razz.


Damn, i knew it was comming. But i will rather stay with good old "plain" google. Wink I say yes that Flash has its place on the web but its not here to replace HTML.
sgwreviews
It has to be said, this flash google looks good, although I am sure that the same can be built in html.
Bakusozoku
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
SamiTheBerber
I would use flash for animations only, because they get huge with lots of information. I made a flash-based homepage and that is my last one. With flash can be made nice animations but not homepages!

(x)HTML is for homepages not flash! Learn PHP and JavaScript if you want make interactive-site. ActionScript and JavaScript are quite same so it won't be a problem.

This is just my opinion not a law...
Marston
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...
Sappho
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.
LukeakaDanish
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.


Allthough I would prefer an internet where flash was used with moderation and concideration, i have to agree with Sappho on this..."Why bother making websites...some people dont have access to a computer and therefore cant see them!"

My problem with flash is that the "options" Bakusozuko describes are mostly stupid effects which, unless used by someone who really knows what they are doing will result in a website which looks over designed and works really baddly in getting you the information you want.

Another concern with flash is the high load times. This should however become insignificant in the near future as internet connections become faster and faster.
krazycapital
I might use flash for:
Games
Banners
Adds, if you put them on your site (preferably not)
Because they can add something to your site. If you are really really really really good with flash, you can do make more stuff with it, but if you aren't, don't.
Alie
As for me, flash is good for everithing, but you need to know how to create better things for each one of your options in poll.
DX-Blog
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.

Blind people can listen to a movie, they can't listen to your flash site though. A standard HTML site on the other hand which is correctly built up and makes use of stuff like the alt tags for images, etc. cán be visited by a blind person, since the content will be read up to him.

Wink
Marston
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.
Clearly, someone hasn't head of web usability Razz! There're laws in certain countries (the UK, and the USA, for example) that state that's illegal to not make your content available to users using screen readers. My point makes perfect sense... Rolling Eyes
Sappho
DX-Blog wrote:
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.

Blind people can listen to a movie, they can't listen to your flash site though. A standard HTML site on the other hand which is correctly built up and makes use of stuff like the alt tags for images, etc. cán be visited by a blind person, since the content will be read up to him.

Wink


That was just an example, what if i am deaf and blind, and what about posters blind ppl cant seem em and definitely cant hear em, so should i stop using em? U see my point hopefully. Not everything is for everybody. :/
dac_nip
all of the above definitely. why not? It depends on how you use it anyway. but who cares, I'll do what i want with flash. no one has fuss about it. Laughing chill
Sappho
Marston wrote:
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.
Clearly, someone hasn't head of web usability Razz! There're laws in certain countries (the UK, and the USA, for example) that state that's illegal to not make your content available to users using screen readers. My point makes perfect sense... Rolling Eyes


Thats stupid law if u ask me, i take flash as more of an artistic medium, its not just to spread informations as with a simple HTML page. Blind person cant see a billboard in the city too so lets remove em all? OMG this is stupid. I will use web as i want to, why should there be some rules, if there is this option why ignore it, let me choose. Someone that has no computer cant see even HTML pages, should i go and buy him one? I dont simply understand. Deaf person cant listen to radio, lets shut down all radios... there are many examples of how ridiculous it is. :/
DX-Blog
Sappho wrote:
DX-Blog wrote:
Sappho wrote:
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...


Yea why making movies some ppl with disabilities cant see them. Ur point doesnt make sense.

Blind people can listen to a movie, they can't listen to your flash site though. A standard HTML site on the other hand which is correctly built up and makes use of stuff like the alt tags for images, etc. cán be visited by a blind person, since the content will be read up to him.

Wink


That was just an example, what if i am deaf and blind, and what about posters blind ppl cant seem em and definitely cant hear em, so should i stop using em? U see my point hopefully. Not everything is for everybody. :/

Deaf people can feel the vibrations of sounds and know whether something is calm or aggresive, exciting or dull. They can listen to music this way, go to concerts, etc.

Deaf mutes, believe it or not, can even watch movies. I cant imagine how that would be like, but I guess they'll have a whole lively imagination going on.

Now ofcourse you dont get the actual point of the site along that way, for sites it wont truly work out. But well yeh, that's just such a rare case.

Making a site inaccesible for blind people in example though, or just systems without the proper flash plugins, you are disabling a lot of viewers from seeing your site. Depending on what kind of audience you are trying to target this can be problematic.
BearClaw
all of the above by far. its a very dynamic tool to be used. but one has to know their way around it. actionscript is one of the most challenging languages i've encountered and it is hard to find proper tutorials regarding it without spending money.

i'd have to say stay away from it for the general population. i've made a few flash gui websites and the first and foremost thought on my mind is a.) loadspeed b.) functionality.

but if you do venture into the realm of flash and you have a decent head on your shoulders that truely understands conditional/programming logic there is one this i stress. stream as much as you can and keep the primary file size as small as possible. loaders are there for a reason, but its not to justify people waiting for your website to show up. speed is everything now adays.

secondly, functionality. just because i'm for flash, doesn't mean i think thats all you should use. far to many people are opinionated, and i know i have my opinions, but thats no reason to throw any insults. a truely great web designer knows what will do the job the best. if you want to promote something, catch peoples attention, or make something truely unique, then flash is the way to go. but if your site is just for plain old blogging or you are going to have alot of content, then more traditional methods are the obvious choice.

well those are my thoughts. lemme know if you have any questions.
danielteeny
all this arguing is really pointless,
if you like working w/ flash, work w/ it!

i like viewing flash sites...
besides, its alot harder to hotlink to someone who's using a flash based site anyway.

i find it lets somebody express themselves in manners which otherwards one could not express themself.

thumbs up or down for flash... who cares.

its cool.
Code of Ruin
I reckon flash can be quite useful but people who use it in web development tend to make their sites so chaotic that they become hard to navigate and almost make one blind. As for software development I prefer Visual Basic.net
madsencarl
I love flash. It is one of the best creations in the world. I don't like all-flash websites, but look great when intergrated good with html, or any other similar language. I recently just made my avatar in flash Very Happy
zjosie729
I personally love flash. I don't know why you say that this is the only forum that everyone hates flash. As for me, I do graphic design and I make web templates, and I think it would be great if I knew how to use flash. I think flash adds interactive to a website, and on occassions, it saves space on a website, like when you use flash for a long title.
To me, flash is like one-third of a movie, and that's great.
silentpark
hmm i think its ok if you use it for everthing you can do/make with it..
so animations, webdevelpment and software are ok think..

well software will mean simple scripts maybe a drawing utility or though nothing big and also interactiv stuff..

and why shouldnt you use an flash navigation for example...

so i think there shouldn't eb any restrictions for what you should use it... i don't understand why peaple don't like flash it has many abilities...
Tony The Tiger
I am not a techie. Are you talking about flash as in Macromedia Flash or Flash as in Flash Memory. I don't know much about the propriety or efficiency of using the former. However, I have both a thumbdrive and SD/MMC memory card. I like the later for my digital camera. I have taken some great videos of me with nunchucks etc and posted them on my website. Come check me out. Flash memory is great for digital cameras, pdas, cell phones, etc.
Grimboy
Flash rarely adds interactivity. I find flash sites are LESS responsive, there's no real functionality that it can add that can't be done with javascript.

Also it's a NON SCALING vector format, as in, you can't specify a percentile size. If you want to embed it in xhtml then you've got another thing coming. Satay is over complicated and any other way it won't work on IE.

Honestly, if anyone can tell me anything useful it can do that can't be done otherwise then fine.

That said, it's fine for static media such as small animations/flash video.
bdoneck
My opinion: flash can be used for anything that anyone can think of, its like any other programming language, its uses are infinate
Sappho
Grimboy wrote:
Also it's a NON SCALING vector format, as in, you can't specify a percentile size.


Lol what do u mean its vector format as any other, u can easily make Flash website that will scale according to size of browser window, no problem. Smile
Ikonoklast
Marston wrote:
Bakusozoku wrote:
I think Flash should be used for Web Dev
It makes websites more dynamic & attractive Smile
Gives the Webmaster\Designer more options to improve site.
Why? Why bother developing new programs that people with disabilities can't enjoy? It's also completley ignorant...



What? Flash is a tool, just like any other. If you don't have skill, it will show. Let's not use hammers, because not everybody has a nail and a board!!!!
vinodmishra
Flash is one of the most wonderful things that happened to internet. it Rocks Smile
xeroed
Flash is awesome for animations and web development, as long as you can use it right. You can do alot of cool things with flash that HTML has no way to do... Check out www.nothingandnowhere.com its a band from canidas website and its all flash and its just really really cool... I'm working on a flash site as well that is definitly slightly less awesome but you can still check it out www.afterdarkmatinee.frih.net/index.html anyway I do love animations but really if you understand flash why stop there?
Marston
Alright, flash is good for animations, and even artsy-fartsy sites. But, if you ever want your site to get anywhere, you should at least provide a text-only version of your site. I'm not saying flash is bad - in certain cases, it can be good. But there are obvious cons when it comes to creating an entire site in flash - most importantly, you're isolating a heft population of visitor by using a plugin-only medium. Not to mention, you're reducing approx. 70% of potential audiences by using a technology that Search Engine bots can't index. If you're creating a serious site, flash probably isn't the way to go. If you're making just a small animation for your logo, go ahead, it's not a critical part of the site, but for the love of god, don't develop whole sites in flash; make a text only version to go along with it!

By the way, the internet isn't for people who can see and hear only. Blind and Deaf people have just as much right to access online-content as we do. How would you guys feel if you couldn't post on these forums because you had disabilities? Probably not happy. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you design in flash - I'm just saying that you're not considering potential audiences, or even visitors that have sight problems.

Alot of people are interperting my points incorrectly - I'm not saying "let's all get rid of flash because it can't be read by the disabeled"... I'm saying that you should provide an alternative means of retrieving your content, so that the disabeled can enjoy it as much as other people will.
xeroed
Marston wrote:
By the way, the internet isn't for people who can see and hear only. Blind and Deaf people have just as much right to access online-content as we do. How would you guys feel if you couldn't post on these forums because you had disabilities? Probably not happy. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you design in flash - I'm just saying that you're not considering potential audiences, or even visitors that have sight problems.


Umm so blind and deaf people can read HTML? I'm confused here I understand that blind and deaf people may make use of my site but I don't really see where makeing a flash site interferes with that... unless you are blind and your computer reads to you, which I know does happen.

I will take it into consideration and make a text version of MY site, I just find them a bit less appealing then the Flash where you can see things moving...

also... being deaf might not really affect the way you veiwed a flash site ^_^
Marston
xeroed wrote:
Marston wrote:
By the way, the internet isn't for people who can see and hear only. Blind and Deaf people have just as much right to access online-content as we do. How would you guys feel if you couldn't post on these forums because you had disabilities? Probably not happy. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you design in flash - I'm just saying that you're not considering potential audiences, or even visitors that have sight problems.


Umm so blind and deaf people can read HTML? I'm confused here I understand that blind and deaf people may make use of my site but I don't really see where makeing a flash site interferes with that... unless you are blind and your computer reads to you, which I know does happen.

I will take it into consideration and make a text version of MY site, I just find them a bit less appealing then the Flash where you can see things moving...

also... being deaf might not really affect the way you veiwed a flash site ^_^
Yeah, I know, being deaf doesn't really affect the way you view sites Razz. Anyways, there are such things as screen readers which will read webpages to disabeled users... Obviously there is no way for a screen reader to read text off of a flash file, because, technically there is no static form of the text available (there is no "alt" attribute to the <embed> and <object> tags).
madsencarl
Marston wrote:
Anyways, there are such things as screen readers which will read webpages to disabeled users...

But how are they going to click on the links? They're blind, remeber? How are they even going to get to your website? They'd have to have somebody get there for them. And can't that person just read them the text? Because they may want a single paragraph read over.
Also, you can embed text boxes (highlight-able) and the program will read that to them.
Download
I think flash is for animation and website, its really cool and looks very great. I flash wasnt that hard i will make flash shizzle :p
knowledge
In my opinion flash is for animation and webdevopment purpose. But most people used it for animation which is very good. A picture says thousands words so what you think about animation?
Yea ofcource animation is a easy way to tell others what you think and what is your message you want to spread thorugh your website.
Rally animation made life easy.
neosree
But for me, flash means ads. I didn't like them so I block them with ad removers. But I like flash sites. Still I have a dialup internet so flash sites are bulky and takes ages to load. So I have to stay away from them. Crying or Very sad


So while designing a site I definetely stay away from flash.
And what about people who didn't have the flash plugin installed? Using firefox without flash plugin? It needed to be considered.
leftofcenter
I don't really know much/anything about flash, but I've seen some incredible flash movies, so flash can't be all that bad. Smile
UBOSiege
Code of Ruin wrote:
I reckon flash can be quite useful but people who use it in web development tend to make their sites so chaotic that they become hard to navigate and almost make one blind. As for software development I prefer Visual Basic.net


I agree that they can become chaotic if used untastefully, but you have to admit, when done right, it can make a page look amazing.

I think another factor in the "chaos" theory is age. I navigate a flash site with ease, while my dad would just stare at the screen not knowing what to do or where to click, for example.
Danny666
My option is For all
Danny666
Plese tell me a Free flash creator which can be used in MS FrontPage???
Marston
madsencarl wrote:
Marston wrote:
Anyways, there are such things as screen readers which will read webpages to disabeled users...

But how are they going to click on the links? They're blind, remeber? How are they even going to get to your website? They'd have to have somebody get there for them. And can't that person just read them the text? Because they may want a single paragraph read over.
Also, you can embed text boxes (highlight-able) and the program will read that to them.
How the hell would I know how they click on links? Going on the assumption that the screen readers pick up upon click-albe elements using the 'tab' key (you can tab to links and buttons, you know). Obviously, you cannot tab to links within a flash file. I dunno if it can read a text box in flash though... Can you copy from a flash text box and paste from your clipboard into a notepad file? If you can, it could probably be read by a screen-reader.
Sappho
Marston wrote:
Obviously, you cannot tab to links within a flash file. I dunno if it can read a text box in flash though... Can you copy from a flash text box and paste from your clipboard into a notepad file? If you can, it could probably be read by a screen-reader.


YES u can copy from a text box and paste to a file, YES u can even make sounds to each button so it will read what it means to a person viewing the site even without screen-reader if u want. And YES u can move through elements (links, text, pretty much anything) with TABs. Of course if the author of the site wants it that way, she can pretty much decide not to implement any of the above.

Another one here said u cant right click in Flash, of course u can, if the author of the Flash site wants she can make his own right click menu.

What i was talking about? Ppl sayin what u cant do in Flash without even knowing Flash and spreading disinformation to all the other fools that will accept it as truth and spread it even more. Laughing
darth_pyro
I personally think it should be used for little animation videos only... Like the ones on albinoblacksheep.com , weebls stuff, etc. However I get very annoyed with Pages that use flash for navigation purposes. Take http://www.nike.com/ for example. You have to watch the stupid intro video, then go through all the menu options, before you even get a glimpse of the original site. Flash is also not compatible with all browsers, and I don't like to have to download a plug-in of some kind just to veiw a page. I happen to use Firefox 1.5 on a linux machine, and macromedia hasn't yet released flash 8 for me. I only get flash 7 as of yet. (at least, the last time I checked, a few weeks ago) So that means that if anybody uses flash 8 for something, I can't veiw it. Please don't reply telling me all about how its my fault I'm using "inferior" OS and browser. One of the most basic things to consider when designing a web page is to make it compatible with all browsers! Examples of flash annoyances:
http://www.nike.com/
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/gothic/ (needs flash 8 to veiw)

Read this:
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/when-good-flash-goes-bad.html
And then look at this:
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/main.html

That's his example. It's that kind of thing where I (and probably many others) beleive the designer has gone WAY too far.
hmd_1988
Flash can be used for anything it can be used for.... it great for making games, humor etc
Sappho
darth_pyro wrote:
Read this:
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/when-good-flash-goes-bad.html


Hehehe u almost killed me, anyone that is quoting www.webpagesthatsuck.com should stop using computer for his own sanity and rather do something else. I mean those guys makin that site are one of the dumbest of their kind. I check from time to time which site was chosen as "webpagethatsux" and sometimes its really a good laugh, like with sites that Leo Burnett made, those designs won so many awards, even SOTY (Site of the Year) or Web Oscars and yet those dumbshits from www.webpagesthatsuck.com think it sux, i think they should get a lobotomy and then write about design Smile

I agree on latest plugins with ya, thats why i always try to handle designs (if i am goin for flash in the first place) in the lower flash version possible. What most ppl dont know is that all Flash authoring tools have this option to publish the flash movie using older versions, so unless i use some Flash 8 features only, like now very popular bitmap caching feature, i compile the movie as Flash Player 7 compatible or even 6.

But there is always something, with HTML u need to create separate style sheets for Explorer and Mozilla which is kind of annoying (damn CSS positioning), but once u have the Flash plugin u can be sure that the Flash site will be looking exactly as the designer wanted in all browsers, its not like u have to download 100MB. Smile

Sappho the Flash Goddess (Let the flame war continue Wink )
noexes89
Flash is the most relable way I have vewed media like movies and music. I've had a total of zero instances of flash crashing my computer, which is more than I can say for anything else.
WebSiteGuru
Flash is ver useful tools, if you know what to do to it. It can help or hinder your site for a webdesigner. Depending on what you do, You can just use it as an intro to your site. Or you can incooporated it on the page as part of the site. You can also make a totally flash site.

Also it would be great to use flash in the software prograning too.
jeffsolodky
Flash is also pretty easy to learn (once you understand the concept of keyframes), making it an easy and approachable entrance into computer programming and digital animation. I started out with flash and progressed to Poser for 3D animations, solely because Flash granted me an easy explanation and way of use for timemapping animations.
Marston
Sappho wrote:
darth_pyro wrote:
Read this:
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/when-good-flash-goes-bad.html


Hehehe u almost killed me, anyone that is quoting www.webpagesthatsuck.com should stop using computer for his own sanity and rather do something else. I mean those guys makin that site are one of the dumbest of their kind. I check from time to time which site was chosen as "webpagethatsux" and sometimes its really a good laugh, like with sites that Leo Burnett made, those designs won so many awards, even SOTY (Site of the Year) or Web Oscars and yet those dumbshits from www.webpagesthatsuck.com think it sux, i think they should get a lobotomy and then write about design Smile

I agree on latest plugins with ya, thats why i always try to handle designs (if i am goin for flash in the first place) in the lower flash version possible. What most ppl dont know is that all Flash authoring tools have this option to publish the flash movie using older versions, so unless i use some Flash 8 features only, like now very popular bitmap caching feature, i compile the movie as Flash Player 7 compatible or even 6.

But there is always something, with HTML u need to create separate style sheets for Explorer and Mozilla which is kind of annoying (damn CSS positioning), but once u have the Flash plugin u can be sure that the Flash site will be looking exactly as the designer wanted in all browsers, its not like u have to download 100MB. Smile

Sappho the Flash Goddess (Let the flame war continue Wink )
Umm... As if you just called Vincent Flanders a dumbass!? He's not rating Leo Burnett's designs as a whole - he's pointing out the poor parts of the design. No one's ever made a 100% good design, not to mention, Vincent Flanders has been using computers since before you were born so - it's his word against yours.

Sad Sorry.
pakialamaers
Flash are commonly used in Animation. When you use flash for Web Developing, the loading seems to be slow. Anyway, I don't know how to use flash but I'm coding JavaScript as a begineer.
Metaguy
It should be used in everything, I, personally, use it for all of them.
Sappho
Marston wrote:
Umm... As if you just called Vincent Flanders a dumbass!? He's not rating Leo Burnett's designs as a whole - he's pointing out the poor parts of the design. No one's ever made a 100% good design, not to mention, Vincent Flanders has been using computers since before you were born so - it's his word against yours.

Sad Sorry.


I am aware of that its my word against his, i just hate his generalizing, like with his all famous mystery neat navigagion he assumes that everyone hates it. I mean come on if i should go with his "rules" everyone would made the same old designs and there will be nothing new in the future. I know i was a little harsh but i just hate it when someone comes and start to criticise like "didnt u know, they wrote at www.webpagesthatsuck.com that this sux, and u cant use it like this, or..." it just really got me started when there r ppl going around assuming they are the ones knowing the ONLY and the RIGHT way to go. :/ Couse there is no such thing.
helk
Flash is really annoying to me most of the time, i really prefer text and pictures that i can copy/paste.

But flash can be used very very well and artfully for intro's and interfaces.
But i much prefer minimalist flash designs.

But flash is diverse like in Dofus (MMORPG). Very Happy So no matter whats wrong with it people can do incredible things with it.
bigdan
I use Flash mainly for menu buttons...simple as Very Happy
photon
i think flash should be limited to animtation and games. using a flash template is waaayy slower and doesnt justify all the icandy in the site. also, using AJAX, one can get as close to flash as never before. somehow, i prefer using it rather than flash
jawker
Basically, flash could be used for any purpose. I believe this software was created for a general purpose and not for some specific task only. Your skill in flash is the only factor that could really limit your use of it. So if you really know or master this software you could really use it for any purpose you would like (e.g. animations, presentations, websites, etc.). What I'm generally trying to say is that a person would only hate a certain thing if primarily, he doesn't know to use it and secondly, he's hard-up in using it. In lay-man's-term, you hate math because you're hard-up in math. But if you're good in math I believe you love math. Just a simple analogy. ^_^! God bless!
Marston
photon wrote:
i think flash should be limited to animtation and games. using a flash template is waaayy slower and doesnt justify all the icandy in the site. also, using AJAX, one can get as close to flash as never before. somehow, i prefer using it rather than flash
Here, Here.
PADRE[P.S.]
I think, that peope may use technology at any variations, but they should think, would it be rational enough, or maybe it would be better to reach the same using another technology
metalwitch
I think flash is cool, but does need to be used more moderatley than it is by everyone, you can show short movies but no one needs to sit through a feature length movie just to look at a web site.
llsanderll
Mostly used for animation and web development. If you use flash to create programs you're quite dumb Confused
Sonox
I'll say all of them!
ion.52
I think the options given are too few.
In my opinion Flash should be used for animation (like in nice movies as in websites like newgrounds.com) and for Web designing. Flash can give a really nice 'extra' to a site.
clip
ion.52 wrote:
I think the options given are too few.
In my opinion Flash should be used for animation (like in nice movies as in websites like newgrounds.com) and for Web designing. Flash can give a really nice 'extra' to a site.


Too few? Can you give some other options besides all the I've placed? Question
zplitstonez
flash is a very good software that helps a lot to people. But we can't avoid it, there is always a good and bad effect. If we do it for good, then it will be good, if we do it for bad, then t will be bad. It's up to the people who will judge whata we have done. So, if you want to do something, OW! think twice.
Takayukiko
my opinion:use it to broadcast movies, like Google Video, and use them for resolution-dependent graphics (smooth auto-resize).
other than that.....try to use Javascript or AJAX or something.

and one more thing...............Adobe (formley Macromedia) should let Google index the character included.


if not..........never use them!
tdlinkin
flash is a very complicated program that has many aspects that some people dont explore. Me being one of them, i dont make programs with it or games but the only thing that i do do is create website animations. I dont want to do anything else with it. That is the way that it works for me. I have watched people make games out of it but what do i care. I like to make my animations and be done with it. Flash is far too complicated for me to do much else with it. Thanks for reading. Idea Idea Idea
Biodiesel
danielteeny wrote:
all this arguing is really pointless,
if you like working w/ flash, work w/ it!

i like viewing flash sites...
besides, its alot harder to hotlink to someone who's using a flash based site anyway.

i find it lets somebody express themselves in manners which otherwards one could not express themself.

thumbs up or down for flash... who cares.

its cool.


Yeah, really
bloodiedpenguin
I think flash should only be used for animations and games. If there were a whole website made of flash it would be okay, but it may load slower for some internet users. Confused
jerski
I reckon flash can be quite useful but people who use it in web development tend to make their sites so chaotic that they become hard to navigate and almost make one blind. As for software development I prefer Visual Basic.net
Vashni
Animations mostly. Website intro maybe. I hate sites that are all flash. number one you cant use any of the pics for your fansite and theres no back buttons. (unless they put them in of course) SO in my opinion: Animations only
sceptileex
flash is obviously meant for animations, but im not against using it for websites. In fact, the endless possibilities in terms of animations make most flash websites much nicer than their counterpart HTML websites. But if you do it wrongly and make your site look real dumb, thats your problem. Dont blame flash Smile

Oh ya, and there are those people who make us preload a few minutes Rolling Eyes thats what flash shouldnt be for....
cavey
If something can be made 10 times better if it's flash, I can't see why not!

If it's a site that is a service (f.eks. internet bank, web-hosting, member site, etc), It must offer an alternative besides the flash-site.

If it is a personal website, or a portfolio for a flash designer, it should be their own choice. Blind people or lynx surfers will probably not get their day ruined because they couldn't see the contents on these sites.

I'm not sure, but I suspect that search engines cannot read the content on the site?

If you use flash on your site, you should be skilled, and a good designer. The worst I see, is a flash-site with a boxy booring design and blurry non-selectable text...
RoughitforGreen247
I think that flash can work for anything, if it works. Flash has a fairly small learning curve, so the internet is flooded with gimmicky, terrible sites that way over-use flash. Like anything, flash can be way overused. Javascript isn't hated just because some people put really hurrendous scrolling text on their sites. Once you've seperated the bad sites from the good, then flash is clearly a tool that can make a good website great.

If flash is used in good taste, then it tastes good.
benreid
Flash should be used - only when you need a bit of animation and a little bit of magic back end! Look at the Duracell football site for the world cup - rubbish. Complete load of...

It is ok in web sites in short doses - but too much - makes a page suck. It is a bit like throwing fifteen fonts and a multitude of colours at a page and expecting it to look good. it aint happening.

It is VERY good for developing quick standalone apps - we use it a lot for that.

Everything has its place:
Indesign - books & mags
Dreamweaver - site design
Fireworks - web ready graphics
Photoshop - hi end photos and raster graphics
Illustrator - high end vector illustration and graphics like http://www.stickyups.com
Flash - web animation and programing
EOS - snapshots
Leaf/Mamiya - Hi End Photos

What have I forgotten???
balaum
i believe flash can be used for everything, sites, animations.... but of course we've got bad professionals that don't know how to use properly this tool.

at the same time, weve got bad html/asp/php... professionals that make hard-to-navigate sites, worse than other flash sites
cr3ativ3
I think flash should only be used for flash animations and games and movies. It is just not cut out for the internet currently it could be but they still need to add lots more stuff before it's ready for that.

Here are some reasons I think it should just be used for animation and games:

1. Sites can't be read well by SEO bots.

2. File Size

3. Hard to edit

4. Many features can't be achieved using flash.
Shake
Flash is confused. It is one of those weird kids in highschool who you don't want to talk to because they make you feel uncomfortable. It's the opposite of itself in every way. It does some things better than others, however, the creators never had a single purpose for it, making it, overall, less useful entirely.

Flash is really good for animations (a QuickTime video could never replace Flash animations). I think that is where is excels the most. I wouldn't use it to make a website, or even clickable buttons. When it comes to websites, leave the navigation up to the user. I, myself, get extremely annoyed when I cannot navigate with tabbed browsing all because of a stupid flash button.
Sappho
cr3ativ3 wrote:
Here are some reasons I think it should just be used for animation and games:

1. Sites can't be read well by SEO bots.

Actually when you know what you do there is no problem to have Flash site with SEO.
cr3ativ3 wrote:
2. File Size

I can do any html page out there in Flash it will have smaller file size.

cr3ativ3 wrote:
3. Hard to edit

Acutally yep, couse you need to know Flash, thats why Flash developers are paid like three times more than the other web devs. Smile)
If you mean CMS i don't see a problem to make Flash site using any CMS.

cr3ativ3 wrote:
4. Many features can't be achieved using flash.

Any feature can be done using Flash, actually many features achievable using Flash cant be done other way. Wink
socialoutcast
Flash, I think, can really easily look real bad if it's not done right. I think some of the best flash thingies are done by those who really really know flash and know it well.
Marston
socialoutcast wrote:
Flash, I think, can really easily look real bad if it's not done right. I think some of the best flash thingies are done by those who really really know flash and know it well.
You brought up a several week old thread to say this?

At least contribute something useful to a dead conversation if you're going to revive it...
Ka7raK
A website (i think it was About.com) just realized that 80% of their visitors don't have broadband. Even though i have broadband, i don't like flash-based websites. You are bound to the designer's will...
furtasacra
LukeakaDanish wrote:
My opinion: Keep it off websites and no-one will suffer. Wink


I sort of agree with this. Flash websites may look cool, if you have a good computer and a fast connection, if you try using a screen reader or a text-only browser at a website built primary with Flash, the site is generally completely unusable. This is NOT cool, particularly if you don't have high-speed internet access, or if you are visually impaired.
sonalobramo
My opinion is: use it for animations only. Use it to make add appeal to your site, to make it fun, interesting etc, but don't base your site on it.
Flash is cool, but need to be careful not to over use it. Take into consideration who is your target audience. Do they have broadband? Would they have proper plug-ins installed, etc. Would they care for a flashy site would the flashy part get in the way of what they need out of your site?
ninjakannon
People have been missing the point here quite a lot.

Flash Player is installed on 97% of computers with internet access (as far as I know). So most people can run it, the 3% without it are either not ever going to come into contact with Flash content or will install the Flash Player if need be.

You can't say "I hate Flash because most Flash content is too busy, looks tacky etc". Why? Because that's not the Flash you're hating, that's the designer / creator of the Flash content. When done well I'm sure you'll be impressed with Flash content; look at some portfolios online - they're usually spectacular.

People with disabilities can't use or listen to Flash? Okay, so that's true - but this isn't a reason to hate Flash, it's a reason to hate the inconsiderate Flash designers out there. There is a lot of Flash content, such as a Flash game, which couldn't be used by a blind person anyway; therefore, it doesn't matter that the blind person's browser can't read the text within it. That would be pretty useless anyway, it would often read stuff such as: "Highscores. Rank, Username, Score. One, ninjakannon, 34264626. Two, CheeseMan, 234513. Three, Humpty88, 23414." And that's useless to a blind person who can't play the game anyway. The blind person would be interested in information, not interactive content. Therefore, do not publish your information solely in Flash; if you do have a default method of giving your users information about something which uses Flash (or any other program which blind people can't benefit from), also provide a text version. This will also help those who don't have Flash Player installed and don't want to install it (a small minority now).
Okay, so there are people with sight problems who can't see your Flash applications properly; the trick is to design games wherein either people with these sight problems can initially see and use the content easily or provide a setting for people with these disabilities so that they may still use your Flash content happily.

So why would you choose to hate Flash content? It's the creator of the Flash or badly constructed website that you should be attacking, not Flash itself.

Flash is an amazing medium to work with and has opened up a whole world of new possibilities. When used well it can stun, amaze and persuade.

Obviously, there will always be poor Flash content and people who aren't yet professionals with it. But there are badly designed websites in html, I’m not going to say that I hate html because of that. There are websites which don't display in Firefox but are great in Internet Explorer; if Firefox didn't exist and people hadn't downloaded it then there wouldn't be this problem. But do I blame Firefox? No, I blame the people who haven't tested their websites in a variety of the most common browsers and fixed any problems which may occur.

EDIT: I didn't vote in the poll because I don't think Flash should be used for anything. You may use it for whatever you deem it necessary to use it for, just think carefully about not just Flash's limitations but also the limitations of what you can realistically produce (in terms of how people with disabilities will be able to use your Flash content). If you so choose to design something and consciously take the option to do nothing for those who won't be able to use your content when there are things you could have done you're not doing anything wrong. But you would get a better reputation and more potential users if you did implement features for those with disabilities.
{name here}
Since flash can't be archived by web crawlers or be read by the blind, I don't recommend it is used to publish an entire site unless your site is newgrounds or albinoblacksheep. It'd be best to use Flash for games, and a little spicing up for your web page like corporate web pages, but keeps as little content inside the flash as possible and as much content inside the HTML as possible IMO.
ninjakannon
{name here} wrote:
Since flash can't be archived by web crawlers

When you embed the html file which displays the swf file (Each of these can be exported from Flash) into Microsoft FrontPage by inserting the html file, FrontPage adds something like:

Code:
<!--url's used in the movie-->
<!--text used in the movie-->

In there it attempts to insert the swf file text and URLs. This html can be read by web crawlers and will allow them to index your pages and navigate your links. If you just inserted html similar to this for all your Flash files wouldn't you be okay?
{name here}
ninjakannon wrote:
{name here} wrote:
Since flash can't be archived by web crawlers

When you embed the html file which displays the swf file (Each of these can be exported from Flash) into Microsoft FrontPage by inserting the html file, FrontPage adds something like:

Code:
<!--url's used in the movie-->
<!--text used in the movie-->

In there it attempts to insert the swf file text and URLs. This html can be read by web crawlers and will allow them to index your pages and navigate your links. If you just inserted html similar to this for all your Flash files wouldn't you be okay?

I'm going to ignore for a second the word "FrontPage".

If I was able to us flash, I probably would use it sparingly in the fashion mentioned above anyways because the blind still can't use it provided it was commented, and flash is sort of inconsiderate to dial up users(I wouldn't want to alienate all those rural folk, especially since one of them is sort of a friend of mine). If I was hell bent on using Flash I'd at least add a link to a text heavy layout.
ninjakannon
{name here} wrote:
If I was able to us flash, I probably would use it sparingly in the fashion mentioned above anyways because the blind still can't use it provided it was commented, and flash is sort of inconsiderate to dial up users(I wouldn't want to alienate all those rural folk, especially since one of them is sort of a friend of mine). If I was hell bent on using Flash I'd at least add a link to a text heavy layout.

Yeah, I agree that Flash should be used only when deemed entirely necessary and that swf file size should be kept to a minimum.

However, I was talking about letting web crawlers read the text and URLs in your swf files by adding that script above your embed script. Got a reply for that? Ignore the fact that FrontPage does it automatically, it might actually be a good idea - and should provide the web crawlers with the necessary stuff to properly index your page.
{name here}
ninjakannon wrote:
{name here} wrote:
If I was able to us flash, I probably would use it sparingly in the fashion mentioned above anyways because the blind still can't use it provided it was commented, and flash is sort of inconsiderate to dial up users(I wouldn't want to alienate all those rural folk, especially since one of them is sort of a friend of mine). If I was hell bent on using Flash I'd at least add a link to a text heavy layout.

Yeah, I agree that Flash should be used only when deemed entirely necessary and that swf file size should be kept to a minimum.

However, I was talking about letting web crawlers read the text and URLs in your swf files by adding that script above your embed script. Got a reply for that?

If there weren't anyone on dial up or blind and using the internet, and I could figure out how to use flash, I'd probably use this alternative.
Dragate
Really depends on your viewers.

If your viewers are people who are supposed to all have fast internet, go for it.

For people with medium internet, not so iffy, and if you really don't know your "consumers", then please don't.

When you really don't know who's looking at your site, or have no target, use banners at a max. There's really nothing else you really need it for.
Flash is cool and all, if you can make it work really good and make it really cool-looking, but it slows down loading but a lot.

Just take that into consideration. If you really don't mind people loading it up becuase it's so good, it's up to the designer tottally. It is loading slow only on the first time too... so if people have patience...
Depends on the consumer, the designer and what the designer wants.
gluingquarters
Flash, when used elegantly, or even with constraint, can be effective and striking. One of the major problems is the loading time with flash, another is that if you don't have the right whatever installed on your computer, it takes forever just to get to look at a website. Plus, some people who know flash are prone to going crazy with it and are guilty of bad site design.
xyclone
actionscript 2.0 is the answer for flash loading.. its much faster.. use for dynamic scripting..flash can also be integrated with SQL server.. more secured in posting data...
xanarulz
I personally feel that it is better to keep it as an animation tool, I site completely made of a flash file tends to take to long for dial-up users to load, plus it becomes difficult to work with after a couple of pages of action scripting (most likely tend to make a stupid error somewhere along the middle) which becomes super tedious!
reddishblue
Takayukiko wrote:
and one more thing...............Adobe (formley Macromedia) should let Google index the character included.

Um Adobe formally Macromedia Rolling Eyes They only own Macromedia, it's products are called Macromedia still Wink
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