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An ethical dilemma






Do you download illegal software, music or games
Yes
66%
 66%  [ 10 ]
No
13%
 13%  [ 2 ]
Only to decide if I want to buy
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 15

Wynand
Downloading of illegal software, games and music

Is the downloading of this really so illegal? I have a statement to make: If you can not afford it, you may download it.

I rectify this statement by saying that if you would never buy a product the manufacturer will never make any profit from you. So if you can not afford software and can not buy it, the developers can not make any money. If you now download the software, the developers never loose money that they could have made.

A serious offence however is when you are selling software, games and music that you do not have the right to. In this case the manufacturers loose money and you are stealing!

What are your thoughts about this?
Ikonoklast
As far as I know, the law states that it is not illegal to download anything, it is however illegal to UPLOAD any copyrighted material that you do not own the rights to.
SunburnedCactus
Ikonoklast wrote:
As far as I know, the law states that it is not illegal to download anything, it is however illegal to UPLOAD any copyrighted material that you do not own the rights to.


I'm afraid that's complete McBS unless you live in an Eastern Bloc state where there is no copyright (e.g. Lithuania)
gonzo
Wynand wrote:
Is the downloading of this really so illegal?


yes, in the USA there's a lesser penalty for walking into a video rental store and stealing a movie off the shelf.

Now what's the difference? Stealing a physical items deprives others of its use. Copying an item does not deprive actually only potentially. Shouldn't then the penalty for 'acutally' be greater?




Quote:
If you can not afford it, you may download it.


what if you cannot afford cable internet? May we steal it?
S3nd K3ys
Wynand wrote:
Downloading of illegal software, games and music

Is the downloading of this really so illegal? I have a statement to make: If you can not afford it, you may download it.

I rectify this statement by saying that if you would never buy a product the manufacturer will never make any profit from you. So if you can not afford software and can not buy it, the developers can not make any money. If you now download the software, the developers never loose money that they could have made.

A serious offence however is when you are selling software, games and music that you do not have the right to. In this case the manufacturers loose money and you are stealing!

What are your thoughts about this?


1) As a software developer, I'm sending a big KMA to you for being an inconsiderate thieving pirate.

2) By your justification, I should be able to go out and steal a Bently because I'll never buy one.

Srs2388
I dont think downloading music is such a bad thing, however pirating software, yes I think that is bad...its just one song that you want to download occasionly.... downloading a full CD is bad though
gonzo
Srs2388 wrote:
.its just one song that you want to download occasionly.... downloading a full CD is bad though


What about download two songs at once?
Nyizsa
I already wrote something like this, but here I go again:
On my opinion downloading an MP3 can be compared to recording a song from a radio broadcast. (So it doesn't equal to stealing a CD from a music store!) If this person likes the song, he will pay for the quality (and the CD cover and case) buying a CD.
And do I have to verify if the source of the downloaded MP3 is legal or not? (Or if the radio station has the license for broadcast or not?)
gonzo
S3nd K3ys wrote:

1) As a software developer[/img]



barcadi inventory software?
DX-Blog
If I download something no-1 makes a loss over it since I wouldn't have bought it anyways. Besides that, downloading isn't illegal in my country so I aint even breaking any laws either.

And you can't compare it to stealing a bently since there have been production costs not only in designing and developing the bently, but also in the production of that specific bently. When you download a movie there has been designing and development costs, but those will always be there, there have been no additional costs for that single download available.

So they don't lose money this way, since it isn't truly being stolen. Besides that, for a lot of people warez even results in buying more legal games since they get the chance to test single player fully first and enjoy multiplayer on LAN's and then decide to buy the full version just for playing it online.
S3nd K3ys
gonzo wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:

1) As a software developer[/img]



barcadi inventory software?


More like Bacardi Consumption software.

S3nd K3ys
DX-Blog wrote:
If I download something no-1 makes a loss over it since I wouldn't have bought it anyways. Besides that, downloading isn't illegal in my country so I aint even breaking any laws either.

And you can't compare it to stealing a bently since there have been production costs not only in designing and developing the bently, but also in the production of that specific bently. When you download a movie there has been designing and development costs, but those will always be there, there have been no additional costs for that single download available.

So they don't lose money this way, since it isn't truly being stolen. Besides that, for a lot of people warez even results in buying more legal games since they get the chance to test single player fully first and enjoy multiplayer on LAN's and then decide to buy the full version just for playing it online.


Techincally, downloading the sofware is not illegal here, but it's illegal to USE it.

As for your analogy of software not having production costs, you're wrong. I've spent thousands of hours developing my software. Just because it's digital and not physical is not justification for THEFT.
tidruG
S3nd K3ys wrote:
gonzo wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:

1) As a software developer[/img]



barcadi inventory software?


More like Bacardi Consumption software.


You need software for that? Wink
All I need is a ****** up day.
.
.
.
.
.
(just kidding... I haven't started drinking... yet)
gonzo
too early?
SunburnedCactus
gonzo wrote:
too early?


It's never too early. *burp*
Panthrowzay
There is still the underlaying problem of the information age vs the industrial age. In the information age information is to be free and acessable to anyone. But this is directly against the love of power(knowlege that others don't have) and greed for money. which money is made off of making new things and patening them. Unless there is a more suitable compermise and newer technologies make it profitable or at least kill the consept of patenting things and holding the rights like mad, prohibiting use of the invention or art, there will be problems. Its just that this is a thing that you personally have to thing on.

but if you are in to the illegal side be careful!
DX-Blog
S3nd K3ys wrote:
DX-Blog wrote:
If I download something no-1 makes a loss over it since I wouldn't have bought it anyways. Besides that, downloading isn't illegal in my country so I aint even breaking any laws either.

And you can't compare it to stealing a bently since there have been production costs not only in designing and developing the bently, but also in the production of that specific bently. When you download a movie there has been designing and development costs, but those will always be there, there have been no additional costs for that single download available.

So they don't lose money this way, since it isn't truly being stolen. Besides that, for a lot of people warez even results in buying more legal games since they get the chance to test single player fully first and enjoy multiplayer on LAN's and then decide to buy the full version just for playing it online.


Techincally, downloading the sofware is not illegal here, but it's illegal to USE it.

As for your analogy of software not having production costs, you're wrong. I've spent thousands of hours developing my software. Just because it's digital and not physical is not justification for THEFT.

I said there are development costs, but for that copy which you downloaded there weren't any costs to make that. If you copy a game to your hard disk that doesn't cost the producer anything. So you cant compare it to stealing a bently or a game out of the shop.

Also, perhaps you made the costs, but those will stay, no matter what. Whether I download it or I don't buy it, the profit for you will remain the same. Downloading for me isn't a reason to not buy a good product anyways, just for the sole reason of having it. Even sealed in some cases, lol Razz. Just to have a good thing stand on my desk is cool enough. I just don't buy worthless crap, whether it was available as warez or not wouldn't matter on that.

Besides that, using the software is legal het along with downloading it. Uploading is the only thing where the problem comes in, but even on that judges tend to differ on opinion on exactly what would fall under piracy and what not.
crazedjill
I don't download software unless it's supposed to be free. I like downloading music, but a lot of the time, I will go out and buy the CD. I like my CD collection. ^_^
Soulfire
The term "illegal" is too negative for me. The majority of "illegal" things I download are from people who own the copyrights and willfully placed their items onto the internet, thus allowing people to download.

You just need to be careful.

To me, it makes no sense to spend money on a CD that you want to listen to for one song, just download that one song (illegally or legally, your choice).

And it's not breaking the law untill you get caught.
DX-Blog
Soulfire wrote:
And it's not breaking the law untill you get caught.

That is the most worthless arguement you know? Something isn't legal unless you get caught, something is legal or illegal. There isn't another way. It's like saying murder isn't against the law unless you would get arrested for it.
DJHicks
if people want to be technical then half the people in the world should be behind bars!!!!

even making the simplist joke about an illegal act could be deemed as conspiring to do it.... or condoning and illegal act!

simplist thing is to do wat u want... but be prepared for the consiquences!
StriderVM
My two cents :

Companies also release soundtracks that some people consider only 1 to 2 songs that are good and the rest mediocore, remember that although those things can be considered a "low-blow" in reality it DOES NOT justify pirating/copying it. Piracy IS piracy no matter how you look at it. A simple rule in bartering/trading is : I have something, you want to buy it? Negotiate a price or buy it or NOT.

So how can this be solved? A simple solution is actually making a soundtrack album that has a lot of good songs with it with a slightly lower price, making it far more attractive than the opposing product. But do othe other companies do it? No, they jump the bandwagon and form the RIAA and stuff to prevent those stuff from happening? Again, a low blow? Yes? Legal? Unfortunately the answer is yes as well......

I know that it is sad that the companies today are treating customers as criminals by their forming for groups such as RIAA and stuff. But in reality, pirating stuff is still pirating stuff, you cannot sugarcoat it anyway. Much like what Robin Hood is doing, it is still stealing no matter how you look at it.
Soulfire
DX-Blog wrote:
Soulfire wrote:
And it's not breaking the law untill you get caught.

That is the most worthless arguement you know? Something isn't legal unless you get caught, something is legal or illegal. There isn't another way. It's like saying murder isn't against the law unless you would get arrested for it.


That wasn't an argument. You're too critical, it was meant to be funny. Guess you missed the humor.

Lighten up.
bigtwballer
im proud to say i buy all my music from stores, too afraid of viruses
u cant get a virus from a cd Smile
birell
The reason that i download music is that some of it is very hard to get it legally. At the moment ive been looking for a record for about a year and some days ago i found a place to buy it. So i have to order it from denmark
Rolling Eyes

If you listen to mainstream music then its no problem to get it legally, but if you go outside the mainstream it becomes a real pain in the ass.

bigtwballer wrote:
im proud to say i buy all my music from stores, too afraid of viruses
u cant get a virus from a cd Smile


Didnt Sony put a virus on some of their CDs lately?
gonzo
Panthrowzay wrote:
In the information age information is to be free


No. YOU are free to pursue information and educate yourself. Communism only works on paper. I have no obligation to enable you to benefit from my effort at my expense.
MalvagioAddict
The information age actually allows us to get more information readily than previous years and I do think that is not a good thing, I'd agree with gonzo it is only free up to a certain extent. Does that make it a right or an actual privilege?

On the actual topic I'm actually more prone to buying the cd's as soon as I'm sure that I'm going to like it, my category would probably be at least I'd like at least 50% of the songs, unless of course, I really like the artist then I go ahead and buy it even without listening to it prior.

I guess it safe to safe that this would be the best place to place this one too, since this too is an ethical dilemma and concerns music. You pirated cd's is rampant here and therefore cutting off the sales of the original cd's unless you're an avid collector of actual original cd's you'll probably just go ahead and buy this one at fract of a cost, actually only about 10% of the actual price of an original one, of course longevity is not an actual assurance as with quality, but heck, since I don't really want to collect them I just want to listen to them for a while, I tend to just buy them.

Does that make me unethical?
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