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hheidle
How can the Bush take the position that the US should not ratify the Kyoto protocol? Especially since Clinton had agrred to it at the conference.

Even if it were to affect the US economy negatively -- which is very much up for debate Exclamation -- shouldn't the US as the leader of the free world be a good example? How can we tell developing coutnries to conserve energy if we use by far the most energy per capita and also produce by far the most CO2?

Hopefully, eventually the US will come around, better late than never and Bush will only be in office until 2008.
S3nd K3ys
hheidle wrote:
How can the Bush take the position that the US should not ratify the Kyoto protocol? Especially since Clinton had agrred to it at the conference.

Even if it were to affect the US economy negatively -- which is very much up for debate Exclamation -- shouldn't the US as the leader of the free world be a good example? How can we tell developing coutnries to conserve energy if we use by far the most energy per capita and also produce by far the most CO2?

Hopefully, eventually the US will come around, better late than never and Bush will only be in office until 2008.


Haven't verified this yet, but I've heard the US is already well ahead of the protocol outlined in the Kyoto deal.
Bondings
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Haven't verified this yet, but I've heard the US is already well ahead of the protocol outlined in the Kyoto deal.

The USA is responsible for 25% of the production of CO2 on the planet, while it only has 4% of the population.

About the other countries, they may have accepted the protocol, but most weren't able to decrease the production yet, just slowing down the increase.
S3nd K3ys
Bondings wrote:
The USA is responsible for 25% of the production of CO2 on the planet, while it only has 4% of the population.


The only reasoning that counts in the U.S. is political.

The Senate voted in 1997 95 to 0 to oppose any treaty that forwarded environmental goals at the expense of the American economy. Obviously, any movement for ratification has a way to go. In addition, from what I can see the KA has nearly zero political traction in the U.S. I believe it was signed by the Clinton administration as a gesture, knowing well that it would never be ratified by the Senate. That's why neither President since has sent it there for a vote. A recently added demand is that India and especially China, both emerging competitors, be subject to the same constraints as other developed countries.

Practically speaking, the U.S. hasn't performed badly compared to other nations in terms of percentage change in energy use. Mostly because most other nations have performed dismally. Still, the U.S. creates about a quarter of all emissions.

Kyoto seems to be viewed as a technique to weaken the U.S. with it's exclusions and demands that appear to focus on the U.S.. IMO, we will see the U.S. act with increasing self-serving interests especially as much of the world protests against the U.S. or even cheers when the U.S. has problems.

The U.S. has oil - lots of it. A decision has been made to use other people's oil first and when that runs out the U.S. can drill in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico and a few other oil hotspots that I can't remember the location of off-hand.

Besides, oil from Iraq makes up only a small portion of the U.S. oil consumption.

The U.S. needing oil from Iraq is a red herring.

Besides, the Middle East oil is running out. That is the reason Iran made the unheard of decision to close 50,000 villages and move them into large cities. They know their oil is running out (I keep reading the year 2020 or so as a point of decline for Iranian oil output) and once it's gone they have absolutely ZERO economy. The other Middle East countries are in a similar situation.

So, Kyoto seems even more unnecessary as in 20 years or so the world will have a decline in oil consumption wether they want it or not.


Bondings wrote:
while it only has 4% of the population.

.


Not if you count illegal aliens. Wink
Bondings
Some other numbers, I don't know if this is a from a reliable source, though.
Quote:
The USA EU Countries China Total
Population of world: 4.6% 6.3% 21% 31.9%
CO2 Emissions: 24% 14% 13% 51%

Please compare the population of the USA with that of the EU. And we also have illegal 'aliens'. However the CO2 emissions are the opposite.

The problem with pollution is that it has global effects. If city A throws garbage in the river, city B down the river will get the problems. Now if all towns agree to lower the amount of garbage thrown in the river, except the town with the most garbage just because of some political reasons ...
S3nd K3ys
Once again (as happened last winter in Scandinavia) most of Europe is undergoing a bitterly cold winter that is shutting down communications and transportation and even killing people.

Now, a few years ago when the "Global Warming caused!!!" heat waves to hit France and Britain, the story was front page, above the fold and the first 3 minutes of every nightly newscast in America.

The cold-wave currently gripping Europe and that which virtually put Scandinavia into an Ice Age last year (and killed HUNDREDs across northern Europe and into China and across to Canada), if you learn of it at all, will be noted in some tiny blurb at the back of local papers and not at all on the newscasts.

Why?

Well, because bitterly cold (but cyclical) temps, just like the approx. 20-year hurricane cycle do not bode well for monstershouting on the left that the end is night due to Global Warming. Indeed, Global Warmingists in the media stayed away from the US National Hurricane Center, where it's director was futiely attempting to tell the world that we were simply seeing the peak of the 20-year hurricane cycle last year.

Those libs not shrieking that GW Bush has a hurricane machine in the basement of the White House that he aims at po' black folk, were shrieking that the increased hurricane activity and increased hurricane strengths (both explained by the NHC as part of a very well-known cycle) that the hurricanes were a sure sign of Global Warming and that Bush had better sign Kyoto to stop them!

Of course any Global Warmingist worth his fleece will now shriek "localized periods of COLD weather are ALSO a sign of GW!"

Ah. So it seems that we need only look to the weather to prove GW: if it's hotter than "normal" it's Global Warming! Colder than "normal"? Global Warming? About the same? Global Warming!!!

Now you know why NONE of the senators signed up to support the Kyoto Protocols.

Those who voted to support the treaty? ZERO! That's right........even the liberals who scream about global warming in the Senate were not foolish enough to actually back Kyoto..........

Kyoto's entire intent is to crush the American economy.

I am not sure how that's going to help the "environment."

But of course, every lefty in the country is screaming "Bush is destroying the planet by not signing Kyoto!!!!" I can't imagine that 300 million Americans stripping the countryside of anything that'll burn and filling the sky with woodsmoke after we are 3rd-worlded (as is the intent) by Kyoto will help the environment. Maybe some shrieking ecocommunist lib can 'splain that one?

Yeah...didn't think so.
Bondings
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Once again (as happened last winter in Scandinavia) most of Europe is undergoing a bitterly cold winter that is shutting down communications and transportation and even killing people.

I don't know where you got that information, but I never heard anything about this in the news. Today is one of the warmest days in a few weeks in Belgium with 8-10° Celcius.





I would say that this is warmer than usual for Europe.

Quote:
If you learn of it at all, will be noted in some tiny blurb at the back of local papers and not at all on the newscasts.

Why?

Maybe because it isn't that cold?
S3nd K3ys
Cambridge Evening News wrote:
Big chill on the way

IF YOU thought the New Year heralded an end to the cold snap - think again.

The final week of December was chilly, with much of the UK, including Cambridge, experiencing snow.

But New Year's revellers enjoyed warmer temperatures as they took to the streets on the last day of the year.

So far, January has been dominated by milder and more unsettled weather - but conditions are expected to get colder as the month progresses.

In fact, the Met Office is predicting a two-in-three chance of a colder-than-average winter for much of Europe.

...

Anglia TV weathergirl Sara Thornton said: "The predictions of the coldest winter in a decade look to be on their way to coming true as so far we have seen a colder winter than in recent years.




Oh. Damn. Wink
Bondings
S3nd K3ys, you are talking about a winter which is expected to be colder than the average for the latest 10 years.
Quote:
Severe Winter Weather

The Met Office is predicting a two in three chance of a colder-than-average winter for much of Europe. The Met Office is not predicting extreme winter conditions like those experienced during the winter of 1962/63. However, recent winters have been relatively mild and perhaps have given the impression that these are 'normal'. The balance of probability is for a winter colder than those experienced since 1995/6. For more information, including sources of advice and support, and information on what the Government is doing, go to our winter weather advice page.

Oh, I feel the cold coming.
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