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Vegetarianism





please.be.quiet
I just recently turned vegetarian and i think it's a great way to live. I'm not doing it for the weight/health factor but for the animal cruelty factor. Every vegetarian saves an average of 92 animals per year. Most people never even think about what they do to the animals. For chickens, they put 11 of them to a small cage and chop of they're beaks (which has the most nerve endings in their body) so that they don't kill each other. because of this, the chickens can starve to death because they can't eat food anymore. when male chicks are born in an egg factory, they usually throw them into high speed grinder alive. There is so much more out there that they do to these poor animals. Vegetarianism is really the way to go, you may say that it's normal to eat animals, it's the circle of life. but we really abuse that system nowadays. It's not normal anymore. I suggest that if you don't want to turn full vegetarian/vegen than you only eat free range/ organic meat. here are a couple quotes from albert einstein himself on vegetarianism: "Vegetarian food leaves a deep impression on our nature. If the whole
world adopts vegetarianism, it can change the destiny of humankind." and "If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."
yule
Deeply loves the nature, protects the animal is the matter which the humanity should do.
Nyizsa
I respect animals, and you're right about the "abusement of the system". But I happen to be a meat-lover also. My grandmother has some animals (chicken and pork, mostly), and they are kept well. And they are killed in a "humanic way", if it's not contradictory.
So, I can't imagine my life without meat. And an other quote (from I don't know who):
If God wanted us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made animals of meat.
saiyeek
I liked your post.
I am also a vegetarian.
Soulfire
See, not everything is like that though - I agree that meat processing could be improved greatly, but you cannot only look at the bad and the extremes.

And you have to understand that they're renewable, each of those 92 animals we omnivores eat a year could also produce offspring.

But nice post, vegetarian is pretty cool I admit.
Marston
How can you guys not eat meat? Meat is amazing.

Besides, animals don't have souls anyways. They don't go to heaven or anything... Damnit! For every animal you guys don't eat, I'll eat three!


Meeeeaaaat....
Shade of Blue
Marston wrote:
How can you guys not eat meat? Meat is amazing.

For every animal you guys don't eat, I'll eat three!


Right on, man.

And I don't have a problem with vegetarians in general; they can eat whatever the hell they want. But I can't stand the ones ones that whine about it all the time and get offended whenever you eat meat. Some even go so far as to try to keep you from eating your own meat.

It especially bugs me when a vegetarian is a dinner guest at somebody's house or something, and when meat is served, they "can't eat it," and request something else to be cooked.
If you "can't eat" (by choice) what the host is serving, then starve to death, ******.

Mad

Personally, I eat as much meat as I possibly can at every meal every day. Razz
Marston
Although I have never eaten my own meat, I agree with you. The only thing is, why would you ever have a Vegetarian over at your house? I avoid Vegetarians like the plague, man. I suggest you do the same...

Razz Joking, obviously. I don't hate Vegetarians, I just love meat!
Fall To Your Knees
You know If we weren't supposed to eat animals they wouldn't be made out of meat Laughing
thegamecreator
Nutorious
Well, if animals like sheep or cows could eat us they would, so i think why not eat them, the way it is ment to be really. I disagree on the cruelty though, to be honest some of the stuff they do is very cruel. But like i said before, if they could eat us they would probably while we were still living aswell
Crosis
it's true, eating animals is bad... But we do that for some 1000 years
Nature is like that... Meat is good to the health, and it's very great (miam!)
I adore animals, but i know meat is a good food
Srs2388
I dont see anything wrong with it
if you dont kill any out at all...... whats going to hapen is
it will be overpopulated and have diseases, and it will be terrible animals then would suffer.
that is just my opinion though
jongoldsz
I can understand why you are against the animal cruelty factor, but you have to understand what you are eating. When you eat a stake you are eating a cow or a lamb, etc., but when you eat a fruit you are eating a womb that a baby plant is going to grow in. Now, when you look at cells that make up meat, vegetables, and fruit you see fatty acids, water, a nucleus, mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, etc., the main difference between plants and animals, besides DNA are that plants have cell walls and chloroplasts. Is there a difference in eating plants or animals?
illini319
we have canine teeth for a reason. We have animal fat specific lipases (digestive enzymes in our gut) for a reason. the bulk of many veggies, cellulose, we can't even digest. heck, cows can't even digest this cellulose. They rely on the bacteria that live in their four stomachs to break down their food. Vegeterianism is perfectly fine, so long as you are not self-righteous about it. Nor should you ever be wearing/using anything that was taken from an animal... else you risk being labelled hypocritical.
Anttu^^
yea meat is good and if you dont eat meat you dont grow as the most of the vegetarians, wich are women they become very short and you stop growing after you are about 20 years old, and i dont think the animals are having a bad life either, they are made for us to eat, nature is just so, i dont mind either if someone is a vegetarian but it is always a small minus if you are Rolling Eyes
Painshock
this is an each to their own matter, but i do have an opinion about this.

i dont see anything wrong in being a vegetarian, if its because of health reasons, or it is a way to keep the weight under control if there are no other ways to do that.
well animal cruelty is a whole different matter and cannot be compared with eating meat, but by not eating meat we make a fatal fraction to the food chain. we are on top of the food chain, but the chain needs its every link so it wouldnt break. the animals are meant to be eaten, and the amount the ppl of the world eat animals in a year is nothing compared to how much those animals breed. hunting animals for different purposes than eating them is not right tho, and i do judge hunting cause of furs etc. but id never give up eating meat tho.
xray757
I am no vegeterian but have lots of friends that are.

I have to say that you don'T have to forget that a lot of vegeterians kill insects when they get annoying, for example spiders in their bedroom when they wanna sleep.
Or a lot of them eats fish.
Or they wear clothes that are made out of animals that were killed for that.
So many of the vegeterians are a bit contradictory in their behaviour.

But not all of them are like this. Only the ones that see it like a cool trend. They don't really share the ideological background of it.
nilsmo
My cousin was a vegetarian because he wanted to be healthy. However, after he started exercising, he said he needed the proteins so now he eats much meat. I don't think it is necessary to be a vegetarian at all to have good health.
denggi
Well, I LOVE meat, but I can understand people who choose to be a vegetarian. Not loving those whiny vegen activist though. Anyway, I just read this book about how humans require different kinds of food depending on their blood type. Like O is suited to meat, veggies for A...B eat some combination I can't remember. Explains why some can lose weight on those Atkins diet. Haven't gone through the whole book but it's a new idea to me.
Bondings
Not to forget that you eat around 10 spiders a year on average ... while sleeping. And no, it's not a joke. Wink
710ths
Sorry but another meat lover, although I do not condone animals being baddly treated. I tried not eating red meat for a while and felt bad. I just need meat!
swimfornoah182
Marston wrote:
How can you guys not eat meat? Meat is amazing.

Besides, animals don't have souls anyways. They don't go to heaven or anything... Damnit! For every animal you guys don't eat, I'll eat three!


Meeeeaaaat....



lol. and thegamecreater. funny shit
Nyizsa
All you veggies, please tell me what do you think about this:
Is EGG considered as animal?
I have some vegetarian friends, and they eat eggs. But what if I tell that an egg is a baby chicken?
And an other one: how can one live without knowing the feeling of lard dripping from your chin and fingers sticking together? Now that's something!
please.be.quiet
Nyizsa wrote:
All you veggies, please tell me what do you think about this:
Is EGG considered as animal?
I have some vegetarian friends, and they eat eggs. But what if I tell that an egg is a baby chicken?
And an other one: how can one live without knowing the feeling of lard dripping from your chin and fingers sticking together? Now that's something!


do you even know what lard is? it's fat from a pigs abdoman. i didn't even eat that when i wasn't vegetarian. and those of you out there that are like "for every animal you don't eat, i'll eat three", in two years time, your body will be on the verge of getting a heart attack, and you'll be obese..no wonder 1/3 of americans are obese.
NobodiesHero
Alright, I respect everyone's personal opinion about what and why and how to eat. But I hate people that go around and want to make me a vegetarian.
I like meat and if you don't, that's ok with me. But don't dare trying to make me eat vegetarian, too.
I don't try to convince any vegetarian to eat meat, so don't get on my nerves.

Thank you very much.

To all meat eaters out there: Keep up the good work.

To all vegetarians: Do what you like, but get out of my sight.

Rock'n Roll.
cjtreid
My family are vegetarian and have inflicted it upon me all my life, but I am most certainaly not a vegetarian. I do not see how you can get a fully balanced diet if you no not eat meat. I think that vegetarianism goes against every natural human instinct. Ever since man could think he has hunted and killed wild animals to eat, and we have become a vital part of the food chain.

If man did not eat meat then the cow, sheep and other animal populations would spiral out of control and the world as we know it would come to an end.
Alein_Atryda_III
My cousin started to leat alot about vegetarians, not eating meat being good for health etc. etc. and she were doing everything like in those books, finishing up in hospital. Doctor told her to eat more meat o.o

I don't know what to think, but I'll just trust that doctor:D

BTW> Considering post about vegetarians being short. She is first short person in her family line since 18th century...

Hmm, eating meat is good, as long as you don't eat too much of it and keep balanced diet. Eating groceries, fruits etc. is great as well, but getting too much of some vitamins in them can cause some vitamin-related sicknesses, can't it? (I'm not sure... They were telling me about that on biology lessons few years ago).
dysturbedstatic
meat is good, meat is great, please put more meat on my plate.
gonzo
please.be.quiet wrote:
t for the animal cruelty factor


think of all the plants your killing. killing is always wrong?

Quote:
every vegetarian saves an average of 92 animals per year

more meat for me

Quote:
it's normal to eat animals, it's the circle of life. but we really abuse that system nowadays. it's not normal anymore.


why not?

animals don't have rights
nOScott
Animals eat each other also Very Happy I love meet its just part of the food cycle if we dont eat meet they would eat us ... well maybe haha
edallica
yeah im a veggy as well and have been for about 10 years. i dont think its that hard to be a veggy, you just have to be responsible. if you were a meat eater your body will be used to getting stuff from meat that isn't in vegetables. so you have to take eaither supplements or try things like Quarn.

being veggy is great!
Marston
Nyizsa wrote:
All you veggies, please tell me what do you think about this:
Is EGG considered as animal?
I have some vegetarian friends, and they eat eggs. But what if I tell that an egg is a baby chicken?
And an other one: how can one live without knowing the feeling of lard dripping from your chin and fingers sticking together? Now that's something!
I think this post is really getting at the more important issue at hand - which came first, the chicken, or the egg?

By the way, that lard thing is just gross. I've never had lard on my face. It's not good for your complexion, you know.
stiffler
Timing is cool for me to see this topic. My whole life I have eaten a lot of meat(im 26). But I am starting to fully see the benefits of being a vegan, and I have been slowly getting myself into the vegan stage. I plan on eating more fruit than anything, plus greens and nuts for added protein when I work out, no more artificial crap for me.

For anyone who needs more info, check this out:

http://thegardendiet.com/
riv_
OK, I think my opinion may best be stated with some personal background.
I refer to myself as a reformed vegetaraian. I was a vegetarian for several years, and health-wise, it felt good. But I've started eating meat for a couple of reasons: 1) My husband does not feel well on a vegetarian diet. We were both vegetarians when we met, and until he began eating meat again (in spite of a well balanced vegan diet, on which I thrived) he was ill. 2) I now live in a northern rural area, where it is costly and difficult (if at all possible) to get the neccessary variety of vegetables and alternative proteins to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet year round. I can't do it so I don't.
As for animal cruelty, that comment has always bothered me. If you want a cruelty-free sustainable lifestyle... then live it. I've never had much patience for choices based on the assumption that food comes from a store. And meat comes on a little styrofoam tray. I think everyone should know where there food comes from (and still be able to eat it!)
One reason that I'm OK with eating meat is that I know its coming from good sources. We fish in the summer, and trade some fish for beef, raised by friends whose farming methods are neither cruel nor gross. (And anyone who's ever had good farm fresh, small-lot, pasture fed, not feed lot beef will tell you it's not even the same food as feed-lot grocery store cow)
We raise our own meat chickens, get eggs from a neighour and plan to raise rabbits for meat and fur next spring.
I don't care what choices you make for yourself; if you make them consciously and deliberately, I commend you. But no matter where you live there are alternatives if you're willing to seek them out, rather than just blindly reacting to the stuff you don't like.
stealth_sniper
If you are vegetarian you don't get iron. I can never just eat vegetables every day without eating meat. Meat makes you more strong but just eating vegetables every day will make you weaker. But there is nothing wrong to be a vegetarian. Meat is very good to the health and both vegetables. But eating meat is better. A balanced diet is better than just taking one over the other.
Rachael
GO VEGES GO!!! OI!! OI!!! OI!!!
Alein_Atryda_III
riv_: So it means that it depends on person if (s)he can become a vegetarian? Like, place where person lives, his money and health issues?

Person I'm renting my room from was told by doctor to eat alot of red meat for next month. She wasn't a vegetarian, but she ate mostly fruits and grocery before.
riv_
Quote:
o it means that it depends on person if (s)he can become a vegetarian? Like, place where person lives, his money and health issues?

Absolutely... Like I said. The vegetarian diet (remembering that a vegetarian isn't just someone who doesn't eat meat; a true vegetarian diet has to be properly balanced) is the very best diet for my body type.
But it doesn't work so well for some people.
And it's much harder to maintain living where I live now, then it was when I lived in a warmer climate where more variety was available year round. Not only is it harder to get the variety of produce and vegetarian protein here, I find that I actually crave meat protein in the cold winter climate!
Ultimately, people have to make thier own choices, and remember that something that works for you may not be the answer for everyone.
But that's just my opinion...
please.be.quiet
i was never telling you that you shouldn't eat meat in the first place. if you read the first post it clearly states that if you want to eat meat, then (i recommend) eat free range or organic because the meat hasn't been treated with growth hormone steroids and the animals are natural. i was never forcing vegetarianism/veganism on anyone, and if you were offended by me saying what's healthy and what's not then you are really, truly ignorant. still, besides what i said, i'm vegetarian for the rights of animals (and they have rights, it's moral) not for the health issues. if you want to argue that animals aren't treated badly or if you're oblivious to what's happening, then go to www.peta2.com and see what people are doing. and how can you even compare animals to plants? it's unethical.
orc_lord
i don't like eat meat or meat products. but sometimes i eat Smile
i am a half vegetarian, hehe Smile
Marston
Who cares about unethicality, meat tastes good. Why not pump cows full of growth hormones, or steroids? They're going to the slaughter house anyways. Does it really make any difference? Are you a cow?

Also, I believe that PETA is vegetarianist propaganda. Most of the videos they throw up there are also from third world countries, so like... Let's all give people in third world countires a bad reputation? Yeah? No?
solarwind
Nyizsa wrote:
I respect animals, and you're right about the "abusement of the system". But I happen to be a meat-lover also. My grandmother has some animals (chicken and pork, mostly), and they are kept well. And they are killed in a "humanic way", if it's not contradictory.
So, I can't imagine my life without meat. And an other quote (from I don't know who):
If God wanted us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made animals of meat.


I agree to this. And I also say that eating meat is natural to all carnivorous/omnivorous animals. I also agree that killing animals in inhumane ways is wrong. But humans do need meat, it's in our diet.
stiffler
Some of you folks are confused. Meat isnt really part of a blananced diet, because us Humans are not even supposed to eat Meat. Our bodies arent built to consume meat, it just sits in our bellies and rots. Whereas, fruits and veggies are very easily digestible, they start breaking down immediately. The stomachs of carnivores are made to consume meat in the same way that humans are made to consume fruits, veggies, greens, etc...

We can get ALL the nutrients we need being a vegan very easy. Nuts contain a very high amount of protein for those concerned about putting on the pounds.
OnlyOneLife
I never heard the term "vegetarianism", I've only heard, "vegetitarian" which is a person.
I wanted to be a vegetarian, but my parents are give me a hard time... I'll do it when I'm 18 and move away.
Davidgr1200
[quote]I dont see anything wrong with it
if you dont kill any out at all...... whats going to hapen is
it will be overpopulated and have diseases, and it will be terrible animals then would suffer.[/quote]

As most animals which are eaten are farmed then there would not be an overpopulation problem as fewer would be "grown".
Personally I think meat is overrated. Often it is not of very good quality because of the requirements for mass production. It's the sauces and other things that go with it that make it nice. Try eating a hamburger with no bread, cheese, dressing or sauce and you will see what I mean.
However, if you can get meat directly from a decent farm that's another matter....
the666bbq
vegetarians...

you know what they say sometimes :


My Food shits on Your Food Wink


I like to have good variety in my diet and eat no-animal products from time to time but switching completely than I have to say goodbye to all those things that I really really love like muscles, chicken, spareribs, steak, scampi, ...
there is no no-animal replacement for muscles not in shape nor in taste, not even in nutrients/fatties/carbs and there never will be so I will never become a vegetarian...
shwetanshu
i m a pure vegeteian and i dont see anything wrong in ppl eating meat... everybdy has his/her prefernces
baronblod2003
I don't know why you guys don't eat meat!

Meat is soo good and nutrissiant!
My favorite food is hamburgers...ahhh.......... Laughing
Just eating vegetables just look so meningless.
I could have just written this in this post:

as sdgf asdgfdsgdf dasjfihafl asdjgsahkbfd lkajf
fasdjkshfkj jlkah lhsa hjjhhsdfj hsaljkalksdl jlkj a
asijasfdoas jla lhhjl alhf ah jdflk jlkajs jk...

But that isn't the right for this post.
Soo I'll hold myself to the subject.
Wink

Would have been fun if someone had written something about monkeys.
Are monkeys vegearian?
I sure do know that humans, well some, eat meat.
But monkeys?
Arti della Fibra
I went from being veggie, to meat eating, and back to veggie in the last 5 years, and the biggest thing that I noticed is that when I don't eat meat, I need less sleep.

As a meat eater, I was needing 6-8 hours of sleep to feel healthy. However, as a veggie eater, I only need 4-6 hours of sleep to be on my toes. I love that! Sleep is such a waste of time!
Blademasters
I am not a vegetarian but I know many and I understand why they do it. At least I save many pigs a year since I dont eat pork Smile
Alein_Atryda_III
stiffler wrote:
Some of you folks are confused. Meat isnt really part of a blananced diet, because us Humans are not even supposed to eat Meat. Our bodies arent built to consume meat, it just sits in our bellies and rots. Whereas, fruits and veggies are very easily digestible, they start breaking down immediately. The stomachs of carnivores are made to consume meat in the same way that humans are made to consume fruits, veggies, greens, etc...

We can get ALL the nutrients we need being a vegan very easy. Nuts contain a very high amount of protein for those concerned about putting on the pounds.


As far as I remember people can eat BOTH meat and other things. Gee... Veggies are very easily digestible, they start breaking down immediately, and they leave your organism much faster than meat! It means that you will need another addition of energy sooner of later. After I eat "balanced veggie food" I am hungry after 1 hour, after I eat "balanced meat food" I feel too full. When I eat both I feel good whole day~.~

I eat meat and I sleep 5h daily. I feel healthly and I don't drink cofee etc. Well... Does that mean that if I became a vegetarian I would sleep 3 hours per day? I doubt it-__-; And Arti della Fibra... You know that time you need to sleep changes with age? How old are you currently?
Nyizsa
Human is omnivorous. It means that we need meat AND vegetables to get all the things we need for our life. And yes, vegetables are digested faster than meat. And hold MUCH less energy. Look at the grass-eating animals: they wake up, eat all day, then go asleep. Carnivores eat once a day only. I think we have to find the balance between the two.
So if one doesn't like meat, will not eat meat. That's fine, but I think this person will miss some of the necessary elements and a great experience.
lolz
We eat vegetables and meat why choose vegetables only. For me its like no electricity in our life, missing the essence of life
Slick
the first post is absolute crap...

im many countries specially the uk choppin the chickens beak off is too inhumain...

obviously theres no way to humainly kill an animal for wat ever reason.. but they do try to do it in the quickest and most painless way!

to chop the beak off and let it starve is just plain stupid! As the chickens are breed for their meat to sdell in shops, if the chickens are then starved the amount of meat wiull be reduced and the chickens value to the farmer drops!

i am not vegetarian, but i not cruel to animals... i do admire vegetarians a vegans, but please find out the proper facts before changing your habits...

wat country are you from.. if a farmer here was to do as you have sed they do they themsleves would be prosecuted!!
ocalhoun
I plan to become a vegitarian later, but not yet.
Anyway, the only way to be sure what your'e eating was killed humanely is to kill it yourself.
Yes, I go hunting sometimes, also fishing more often.
Yes, I eat 'em.
Ragnarok
If everyone on the planet adhered to vegetarianism and used the cattle grazing land for crops instead, the food produced would be enough to feed the entire population and have room for growth.

The human body is not designed for meat eating as our digestion tract is not designed for such intake. Meat eating animals have a shorter intestine about three times the length of their bodies (allowing rotten meats to pass quickly and cleanly through the body) whereas vegetarian animals have an intestinal tract approximately nine times the length of their bodies (meat becomes toxic if undigested properly and causes all sorts of internal problems in vegetarian animals).
Bondings
Ragnarok wrote:
The human body is not designed for meat eating as our digestion tract is not designed for such intake.

We're designed to both eat meat and vegetables. You can see it at the position of your eyes. Frontal like a lion and not a the sides like a rabbit.
Jack_Hammer
Veggies live 9 years longer on average than people who eat met, but then if your left handed you live on average 7 years less than the average right handed man.
(U.K)
Nyizsa
Bondings wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:
The human body is not designed for meat eating as our digestion tract is not designed for such intake.

We're designed to both eat meat and vegetables. You can see it at the position of your eyes. Frontal like a lion and not a the sides like a rabbit.

Exactly. And also the teeth and... well... I think we have only one stomach... instead of four...
And about meat "rotting" in the digesting system... What do you think vegetables are doing there? If you want to call it "rotting", feel free to do so, but don't be unilateral. Personally I prefer the term "digestion".
Marston
Bondings wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:
The human body is not designed for meat eating as our digestion tract is not designed for such intake.

We're designed to both eat meat and vegetables. You can see it at the position of your eyes. Frontal like a lion and not a the sides like a rabbit.
You are a smart, smart man, Steve Bondings.

Answer me this - how did you become so smart?
alja
I believe everyone in this planet have a reason to be here and animals too. I think they are here to provide food to other animals and so on, but they also kill or chase their pray only when they are hungry they don't do it for fun or just to eat half and waste the rest. For me is better to eat meat from an animal that when is killed can feed more that one like a cow than eat shrimps or little animals that can feen only one and are most killed just for luxury. Like monkey's brains and so on.
polit
I don't eat meat but not because of moral reasons, but because I am disgusted of many types of it. I find it interesting that so many people who eat meat regularly can't kill an animal. For example, almost all of my family members like chicken but no one dares to kill one. Eating or buying a frozen chicken in a supermarket is one thing, but cut a throat with a knife is another. I think it's strange - if you eat them, why do you face difficulties when you kill them?

On the other side - vegetables are living, too. You must eat (and kill) living beings if you want to live. Animals are more similar to the people than plants, and that's the reason why many people don't want to eat them. (They have eyes.Feelings.They're crying.) I think it is individual preference.
mathiaus
When you buy meat from a supermarket its usually (hopefully!) dead already, occasionally skinned, boned, filleted and god knows what else. Its so different to an animal that people generally think about it as being like an animal. Besides when you buy it you dont have to think about who and how it was killed.

I like some meat but not all so I dont really care about their feelings. Other animals eat other animals and some eat humans so thats how we are.

Vegetarians have some morals it seems to me but vegans have more and fruitarians are 'perfect'.
knowledge
I am totaly agree with ALJA and POLIT that everyone in this planet have a reason to be here. Like animals vegitables are living too but it doesnot mean that you go and hunt for your excitement, this is bad. Meet and vegitable should be in balance in a human life, medical science recomends the same.
barteacher
To each his own. I'm a carnivore myself. I enjoy meat and believe that if we weren't eating animals, their population would overrun us and the vegetarians would start complaining about the cow in their living room eating the couch.If you're a vegetarian, that's your choice. Just don't contribute to hypocrisy by eating french fries or mozzarella sticks that are fried in lard. Or put chopped eggs on your salad. If you're gonna be a vegetarian and advertise it, stick to a no meat or meat-related products. And remember that those vegetables were living things once!
DX-Blog
The hell yeh I eat meat, we are built to do so, whether you like it or not. You can chose for suddenly becoming a vegeterian, but then you'll have to adjust your entire lifestyle. You can't just say "ah well, I'll just eat what I did before and take out the meat". The meat contains a lot of things which the body requires. You can go on a regular diet for about 3 months without meat, but after that you'll cause yourself a serious health hazard. The first thing which tends to occur a lot on starter vegeterians are things like anemia, due to a sudden decrease of the iron intake.

But there are a lot more factors though which play an essential role than just iron. The thing is, if you take a look around you at what nature offers you, not your local supermarket you will notice that vegetarianism is biologically seen, impossible, for the human beign. The complete intake which we require in combination with what we are capable of digesting cannot be found on compact locations.

Instead vegeterians eat stuff from all over the world to get the required intake. Things like iron can be found in milk, nuts and eggs. And for the hypocritical vegeterians which say fish aint animals and can be eaten anyways, fish as well. If you include fish, then you can get iron in most part of the world outside of meat, but without it becomes a problem. Things like milk isn't something on which you can truly survive for iron, unless you would want to pile up cows like is happening currently with chickens. Chicken eggs, well yeh, speaks for itself, they would get an even harder time.

Nuts are a good thing since they grow back rather easily and contain a lot of iron, but well yeh, not every type can be eaten by humans and you don't find them everywhere either.

As for milk there's yet again the problem of a major percentage of the global population not being able to digest milk since their digesting system hasn't evolved for this, especially eastern people have trouble with this and results in lacto intolerance, which on a sidenote, can even be deadly. So in making us capable to drink milk people have died.

Now you can go about how we could save so many animals each year by eating only green food, but that will not keep us all alive. Nature is in balance the way it is, even if it requires us to breed things, we are just with way too many people. If we wouldn't breed animals on small locations there would be about enough organisms to cover the entire surface of the earth. Hell, we even pile ourselves in skyscrapers to save space.

Some might call it a crime that things like this happens to animals, but it's just the way it went overtime. You can't change that all of the sudden. Evolution has made us the way we are now and our ancestors have had an influence on how this evolution went. They ate meat, the strongest survived, appearantly the meat eaters and they lived on in the next generations.

Now the most common arguement for vegetarians is that the animals themselves eat about 5000kg of green food before they get killed, then they get produced to about 200kg of meat in case of a cow or so. They tend to forget though that cows eat grass, if you'll try to start living on grass you'll not only damage your digesting system you'll also starve since you can't take anything out of it.

Meat contains things in high concentrations, something which plants don't do. Some plants contain things in reasonable high concentrations, but still if an animal eats 10 of those plants he'll have much more material of importance within a much smaller volume inside of him.

Now if we'ld all become vegeterians there would be way too less of food available for us to eat till we would evolve into pure planteaters, still then you will hardly ever come in such a state in which you can eat all plants. Most likely a lot of people will die because of poisoning the moment we would start eating every single random plant out of hunger Razz.

Finally still, there's just the thing of certain people not going of the path of evolution and sticking to eating meat. You know, there are also other ways to do something about bad conditions for animals. You could raise a group of animals for yourself perhaps Wink. Let those live nicely and then... eat them. Bio-industry is just so much easier though.
thiamshui
i agree.. but it's not easy for me to change to a vegetarian.. been used to eating meat..
Texas Al
I'm a vegetarian, but certainly not out of animal cruelty reasons. That would be silly... as a biologist, I sacrifice about 10 of them each week, and see nothing wrong with it. As the sign on one of the office doors around here says (with a picture of animal rights protesters): "Because of animal research they can protest an average of 20 years longer."

The reason I'm a vegetarian is that I'm lazy. I know that caloric restriction is the only intervention so far that slows down aging in mammals, possibly including humans. But I'm not going to be one of those health nuts that counts the calories on everything. Vegetables have on average a lower caloric content than meat, so I just avoid meat, take multivitamins, and don't worry about it any further. Vegetables also contain less saturated fat and don't carry diseases communicable to humans (avian flu, mad cow disease, tapeworm, and who knows what else they'll find).

I've been a vegetarian for almost ten years now, and am in fine health. I didn't start when I was a child, though, and it's probably a bad idea for people to become vegetarians while they're still growing. Unlike some vegetarian zealots out there, I agree that humans have evolved to be omnivores, not vegetarians. Vegetarianism is an unnatural but overall positive human behavior like many others (clothing, houses, fire, democracy...) but if you supplement with multivitamins and eat a wide variety of vegetable protein, you'll be fine.

I'm disgusted with the self-righteous vegetarian fanatics who try to make other people "see the light" of vegetarianism. And the ones who oppose the use of animals by humans are also species-traitors. I haven't met too many of that type since moving to Texas. Here it's live and let live. Occasionally people say "Will you be offended if I eat this chicken in front of you?" and that's when I laugh and say "I don't care what you or anybody else eats, nobody has a right to be offended by anybody else's lifestyle choices, and the people who want to tell everyone how to live are nutjobs who don't represent me in any way."
SunburnedCactus
Very well said Al!
polit
Texas Al wrote:
I'm disgusted with the self-righteous vegetarian fanatics who try to make other people "see the light" of vegetarianism...."


You're 100 percent right. Of course, it is true for the self-righteous carnivores, too. Being a vegan sounds very strange for many people because they say that it is unhealthy. But with multivitamins you have the oppurtunity to compensate this. Alcohol, coffee, tobacco are unhealthy, too and the most of the modern foods - full of vitamin E (like E330). It's an individual choice for the majority of people (but only if they living in a wealthy society). But that's a fine business, too - just look at the questions of bio-food or the argument about genetically modified plants... Being a vegetarian is unnatural to a human, that's true. But wearing clothes is unnatural,too.
Jewel Cubed
Yeah Some of you people seem to be spokesperesons for PETA.

God/Allah/Buddah/Whoever intended us to eat meat. It's where we get some of our protein.

So if you're a vegitarian, that's dandy.

But please stop trying to make the rest of us feel guilty for eating meat, OK?
lukeropro
Hi! I agree with the animal cruelty thing but being vegetarian may not be good for you! Did you know that being vegetarian can reduce your hormones(hope I spelt it right!) greatly? In a recent news report here in Singapore, being vegetarian is said to be not good for your health! No wonder monks are so gentle! Smile


Just some info
macfly
ok folks. Everyone has the right to do whatever he wants to. I once made the test : I quit eating meat (although I liked that and still do). I had read in a book that I would feel better if I did so. And the author of that book was right. I had more energy, I really was in great shape and continued to eat vegatables until something happenned. One day, I was standing by the butcher's shop holding the hand of my 3 years old daughter who followed the same regimen as us. She looked at some pieces of meat and she asked loud what it was. Everybody around looked at me as if to say : "What ??? This poor little girl has never eaten meat ?? (although she already had anyway). So my wife didn't stand it and we ate meat again. preparing one different meal for each person in the family would be difficult to do. But try. Quit eating meat for some time and see what happens.
Texas Al
Shrug. Depends which hormones. Some of them might be a good thing to reduce.

For example, the Ames dwarf mouse lacks growth hormone and all the other anterior pituitary hormones. Result? It lives 60% longer than normal mice.

Another example. People with constantly elevated insulin levels have lowered insulin sensitivity and are at risk for diabetes. Some dietary and behavioral interventions can lower basal insulin levels and reduce the risk of diabetes.

I'd need to read the study myself before I could decide what it means for vegetarianism. Who wrote it, what year, and where did they publish it?
Jobles25
What? i'm a VAGITARIAN! I love meat! I'ts a business, they do it the cheapest and most efficient way possible. granted, it's not the most humane way to do it but it's the way we live. plants kill each other too. it doesn't seem as violent cause plant don't scream. but believe me, if they could... think about all the germs you kill washing your hands. you save 92 animals a year, you could save 92 trillion microbes a month if you didn't shower... to kill is human, u like being human don't you? Eat a cow!
SunburnedCactus
Uhh, you do know what vagitarian means, don't you?
electric
Many of my friends are vegetarians but I´m not because I think its better to be a honest meat-eater than be a fake-vegetarian.. But I dont think its right to treat the animals like they are being treated today..
Peep
lol Laughing
Jazz
Well i dont agree on cruelty to animals because 1000's of baby seals are killed every year by people who hunt them, although when it comes to animals like chickens and cows I still dont agree on the cruelty because if they are going to kill them they should make it quick so the animal cannot feel as much pain, but on the other hand they kill them so we can eat and if we didnt eat meat we wouldn't have a balanced diet so we wouldnt be able to stay healthy. And Vegetarians are not getting a balanced diet so i wonder how they stay healthy it is hard to work it out. Confused
ranganv
Hi please.be.quiet

Very nice having made your acquaintance. I am in the process of writing a vegetarian cook book incorporating Indian Tastes with western herbs and condiments. What say you try them out and give me your opinion ? I will very much appreciate the same.

regards

Ranganv
Dark_Jedi06
By us eating meat, we keep things in balance.

If every human was a vegetarian, then the world would be even more over-populated with humans and animals then it all ready is, eating meat keeps things in check.
nilsmo
The animals that we eat or usually bred in animal farms. We give them lives so we can eat them Wink

Some people may benefit from being vegan, others no. A good rule is that everything should be eaten in moderation.
Dark_Jedi06
nilsmo wrote:
The animals that we eat or usually bred in animal farms. We give them lives so we can eat them Wink

Some people may benefit from being vegan, others no. A good rule is that everything should be eaten in moderation.
Exactly, and we have to continue eating these animals that we breed.

It's not like we can all of a sudden stop eating them, because then we'll have too many, we can't just stop breeding them because there goes a hefty chunk of our economy and the jobs of alot of people.
SystemWisdom
Funny but good Vegen quotes:

I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis

Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler

Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed

The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard, M.D.

Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown

We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
Jeslyn
I'm a meat-eater, and I won't stop anytime soon. I do however, try to only purchase from companies who are a bit more humane with their methods - but finding companies like that is rare.

I just find it extremely annoying when people, mainly my friends who are vegetarian feel the need to preach to me about how horrible I am for eating meat. The same person who said this, while we were watching the discovery channel one day, started crying because they showed an alligator eating a snake alive. I suppose she wanted the alligator to become vegetarian too? Rolling Eyes
alkady
I have nothing against this kind of lifestyle, But Meat is amazing, I know they do crual things to animals, But thats hows its like in the jungle, in the wild, for example in the wild the predator always eat the prey alive, the prey feels the pain of being bit by a pack of predator., Torn alive, As a meat lover, I can't live without meat, Maybe chicken since I'm not quite fond about birds but I cannot live without pork or beef, The rest I wouldnt care less.
crazedjill
Hi, I'm new. Very Happy *waves*

I read in an article that people were eating too much meat, and that humans were orignally supposed to have a diet geared towards more vegetables and friuts then meat.

People who eat meat don't bother me, and I don't bother them. They can eat what they want.

I'm vegen. Cool
Jobles25
What does vagitarian mean?
Jobles25
I cant find a real definition, idont think it's a real word smarty... I meant i eat vagina, quit acting smart, dummy.
yokonative
look..let them be vegitarions and stop arguing eith them..the way i se ,it , the more vegitarians, the mroe emat we get to eat...beside a lot fo them eat fish, whihc is an animal..so shut up..i know some of you dont, btu alot do..but god...i could care less hwo you kill the animal.how doumb..oh, you have to kil it in a nice way..of yea, becuasse killing in a anice way is just so nice..of look little chiockn,..im just goign o choke oyu ..yea..thats it..just not brethe..your dea/d. no/>ok..a litle tighter...what on eart...abusing the systsm..god, how sad. thereis no RIGHT way of killing..its an animal..it has a life, and we eat...what is up..but..whatever.. more meat for me!
DJHicks
makes me larf wen a vegitarian says about animal feelings etc... although fair enough they forget.... wen the sun moves across the sky a trees leaf move with it... this means it senses (feels) the movement so it can adjust!

if plants can feel, hows does a venous fly trap shut?? by "feeling/sensing" the movement and landing of its prey!!!!!!!
Jeslyn
Huh? Sorry, but some of these replies make absolutely no sense.
bigtwballer
if you dont eat the chickens someone else will.....
so your rlly not saving any.
heath
When ordering in a restaurant in Japan, the word 'vegetarian' has been adopted, so explaining that you are a 'bejetarian' (Japanese pronunciation) should mean that you're not going to get any meat. Even with a bit more Japanese ('nikku nashi' = without meat) your meal will probably still contain ham or bacon, since that is somehow not meat. Apparently, 'meat' in Japan really is just beef, all the others are something else. So vegetarians simply don't eat beef in Japan? No, not exactly. Outside of the major urban areas, there just simply aren't any vegetarians. In the big cities, there are vegetarian restaurants - some very nice ones, in fact. For vegetarians visiting Japan, stick with the sticky rice. Otherwise, cook at home.
LandShark
There is a thing called the food chain. i would post a picture that i felt that it adiquitly had it pictured like i felt it should. Humans are at the top of EVERY SINGLE FOOD CHAIN. i dont care what you say, its just natural. Then people start bringing in the ethics of how they raise chickens and cows and all that stuff. Ask me if a care some day. I really dont. They can treat the animals as badly as i want, as long as i dont have to see it and it still tastes good. I would much rather eat some abused chicken over tofu or a carrot anyday. I know i sound real biased and stuff(maybe cause i am?) but anyways the point is meat is great. you cant have meat without eat. . . if that makes any sense
Jeslyn
Humans are not at the top of the food chain, infact there is no food chain, if anything it's a circle... everything is connected and goes round again. A tiger can eat and kill a human, a human can kill and skin a tiger - being at the top of the food chain would mean that nothing could harm you, you are the predator, and that clearly is not the case.
photon
ive been a vegetarian from the moment i was born cause my whole family is vegetarian. i dont have the right to prevent others from eating meat. all i can do is ensure that i myself dont eat meat.

and to the point that humans are on the top of the food chain and can eat everything that moves (and some that dont), i will ask them a simple question. where did all this chicken, cows come from? it is for consumption that they are grown (just like plants are grown). so you dont eat meat cause you have to keep the animal population under control, but rather you have to cause you raise animals to be eaten.

the funny part for me is that people then talk about animal rights. you fine someone who ill treats animals. you spare a cow from the slaughter house just because it survived a month on a ship and cause it has huge public support. do you do the same for plants?? i dont do it because i know i eat plants and that it would be stupid for me to talk about the 'freedom' of plants after eating them.

so eat all the meat you want to, but dont brood over animal rights after your stomach is full with them
pfrllc
The sad thing about vegetarianism is that it increases the population of animals, though their populations have always been high (other than the ones on the endangered species list, but we don't eat them, do we?). This is the rationale of the hunters, and I find it true, though a lot of the food that vegetarians eat is good, not only for the body, but it tastes good. I have many friends that are vegetarians, but they don't think about the whole saving the animals part. All of these rationales about saving the animals and saving the ecosystem are created and spread by mostly radicals that don't take into account all of the facts. This, exactly, is what makes the human nation stupid, ignorance and closed mindedness. The problem with these radicals is that they take steps to address the problems that they are radicals about, but they don't do anything about the other problems in the world. Not all of these believers are radicals, but for the most part, those who are radicals are noticed.
Naif
Without meat's presence, my life would just be a fantasy! I love meat though I agree, the animals which are to be slaughtered for sale should be treated nicely. So what they arent humans, still they are living creatures who can feel pain.
gertjang
I became vegetarian 2 years ago. I had never thought I would still be it after 2 years and I thought I would give it up immediatly. But I'm still veggie. Just think about the animals... "Meat is murder!"
Bakusozoku
If I'll become Vege' its only cause of Health matters...
Crul or not, you can't stop it. It's already deep in humankind.
Just like violence.
Code of Ruin
Meat contains a lot of proteins and vitamines that we need to keep our bodies healthy. I reckon some methods of killing animals are rather cruel, that is why I always buy meat of which I am sure that the animals didn't suffer anymore than necessary.
I simply consider meat a basic part of a healthy diet which is why I will never give it up.
benwhite
A. If food chain refers to who gets eaten vs. who eats, then parasites win. All animals and plants have them, and no one eats them.

B. Meat-eaters can be concerned about animal rights simply because they prefer that all animals be treated fairly and kindly before slaughter. It's the same idea as the Kashrut laws from thousands of years ago. An animal must be killed in the fashion that would provide the quickest and least painful death in order that it might not suffer more than necessary. Consideration is possible for meat-eaters.

C. Pescatarians, the ones who eat fish, are one of the strangest groups I can think of. Fish care often grown in farms in small tanks squashed together. Compare that to a cow's life and I think the fish clearly has it worse.

D. I feel bad for vegetarians who eat out of the house, especially vegans. Almost everything contains butter and usually chicken fat. A have friends that go to CPK and order the spinach and artichoke dip. It's made with a chicken base. Most soups are too. It's unavoidable in the normal resturant business unless you specifically order. In the case of dips and soups, they're made in batches, which precludes such specifications. Oops, oh well.
helk
I really have no problem eating meat, but i think you know, we ate meat before well before we ever thought about what or why were eating it.

That said, i think it's interesting to note, that carnivors besides humans always kill their OWN animal. We as consumers have this unique ability to transfer the onus of killing (which, you know, if you've never DONE before can seriously hamper your killing insticts) onto industry.

That way we can have whatever animal we want, and we don't have to deal with the killing part. And what about the fact that, although granted eating animals are rather large, we don't keep eating animals as pets, and conversly we don't kill animals we keep as pets (well in other parts of the world we do).
riv_
I still think everyone who eats meat should have to kill their own supper at least once. If you can still eat it, fly at it. If not... you've got a problem.
I figure there's something to be said for eating what's available.
Right now,my family is eating deer and beef a lot, because we've got a bunch in our freezer. But we also eat a lot of fish, and beans (we have vegetarian dishes 2 or more nights per week, regardless)
I think it's essential to good health to know where your food is coming from. Partly because you know you're not filling your body with dyes and hormones and bleach and unnecessary antibiotics (you know why they do that, right??)
... but also because I think there's a psychological benefit to it.
We were made to be hunters and gatherers. There's something wrong with living alife completely devoid of hunting and gathereing. (Yes, this is true for vegetarians who don't garden as much as omnivores who don't hunt!)
Food does not come from the store, whatever we think.
And hey, I like what my brother in law said this morning, in a totally unrelated conversation..."Vegetarian is another word for 'bad hunter!'"
no_face15
Vegetarianism doesn't increase the amount of animals, meat production does. We use more land in the US for meat production than we do for human stuff, which makes sense if you realize how many billions of animals are eaten every year. Its also a terrible ecological disaster because cows produce lots of feces which has been a huge problem, it contaminates drinking water, and things. Animal waste management was also one of the problems leading to the guatamalan genocide (factory waste also a major factor). If you have too much waste your either going to get sick or be forced to take over another contry and spew it in their rivers until they get sick and are born with all kinds of malaties (which is the case today). However, today this problem is delt with by feeding animals their feces back to them. The cows diet (according to the USDA) can contain up to 30% feces (and still be labeled as organic meat too). Thus a whole host of new machinery that processes and preserves crap in order to later be fed back into the animals producing it.
Noukiesims2
jongoldsz wrote:
I can understand why you are against the animal cruelty factor, but you have to understand what you are eating. When you eat a stake you are eating a cow or a lamb, etc., but when you eat a fruit you are eating a womb that a baby plant is going to grow in. Now, when you look at cells that make up meat, vegetables, and fruit you see fatty acids, water, a nucleus, mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, etc., the main difference between plants and animals, besides DNA are that plants have cell walls and chloroplasts. Is there a difference in eating plants or animals?


But don't forget that most plants have fruit that smell and look attractive to animals and humans, to entice them to eat them, and spread their seeds with their droppings.
Plus, plants don't feel anything (no nerve endings, etc.) so I don't really care.


99% of animal live avoids being eaten like the plague. It is unvolentairy. And they do feel pain, fear, anxiety, etc. So this is a whole other case in my eyes.

I'm still no vegetarian, though. Maybe I should.
TonkPilz
vege's AAAAH jk

i cant live whit out meat besides i only eat frieandly meat (dont know the word is in eng) animals that are bread as natuarly as posible but still killd ofc.
btw just eating veges for health reasons Bha! pure bull if you dont know what your doing youl need lots of extra nourishment's either pills or lots of special
vege's like sprout's, bean's ect eavry day and iim to lazy to even tink about that plus Vegetarian's have the most horid farts

Quote:


Thus a whole host of new machinery that processes and preserves crap in order to later be fed back into the animals producing it.



Sooo ???

i bet ur against ketchup too
ben8coast
It is very commendable to choose to not eat meat on the basis of prevention of animal creulty.

However it is extremely difficult to meet all your nutritional requirements.

If you are lucky enought to live on acreage and can grow your crops, run your own chooks I submit it is possible to achieve a fairly good level of nutrition but you will need to be eating eggs.
PuNGS
Man, that nature-saver talk is really nice, but I don't think I can stop eating nice and greasy meat.

My mother is vegetarian, and I grew up in a house with almost no meat, so, when I can eat meat, I eat it like there is no tomorrow. So, in no way I would be a vegetarian...
TonkPilz
Oi i just realized now that ur ehmm vegan i can eat all your meat for u (drooooools)

hmmm i shuld become a ehmm.. meat'an (lol) thats it im only going to eat meat noting ells il even drink meat (Mmmm Sluch puppy)
Reiji
Nyizsa wrote:
I respect animals, and you're right about the "abusement of the system". But I happen to be a meat-lover also. My grandmother has some animals (chicken and pork, mostly), and they are kept well. And they are killed in a "humanic way", if it's not contradictory.
So, I can't imagine my life without meat. And an other quote (from I don't know who):
If God wanted us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made animals of meat.


I totally agree with you...in my house, not eating meat means not eating anything at all...

BTW, the animals we eat (only chickens and porks) are all breed by ourselves...thats the way my parents like them...they don´t eat killed by somebody, because they don´t trust its procedence.
Treemo
lol-no ty(lauging out loud-no thanx)
Tom7
mmm... meat Shocked Surprised

I just wonta tear it off the bone
Nyizsa
no_face15 wrote:
Vegetarianism doesn't increase the amount of animals, meat production does. We use more land in the US for meat production than we do for human stuff, which makes sense if you realize how many billions of animals are eaten every year. Its also a terrible ecological disaster because cows produce lots of feces which has been a huge problem, it contaminates drinking water, and things. Animal waste management was also one of the problems leading to the guatamalan genocide (factory waste also a major factor). If you have too much waste your either going to get sick or be forced to take over another contry and spew it in their rivers until they get sick and are born with all kinds of malaties (which is the case today). However, today this problem is delt with by feeding animals their feces back to them. The cows diet (according to the USDA) can contain up to 30% feces (and still be labeled as organic meat too). Thus a whole host of new machinery that processes and preserves crap in order to later be fed back into the animals producing it.

Yes, and these guys tell us that "It is proven that at least x% of the feces is undigested, so it can be fed again..." and some other clever phrases. I say it is simply disgusting. An animal knows how much of his meal he digested. Yes! Did you know that rabbits do eat their feces for the first time it comes out? The balls you know are the second ones. But forcing an animal who doesn't want to? It's nonsense.
Right, it is a great problem storing it or doing whatever with it. But there are so many ways... Have anybody heard of bioenergy? Burning the feces and getting electricity. A cow farm could satisfy the needs of a small village, but at least themselves. Hm?
animefanlee
humans are meat eaters
[FuN]goku
yeck i hate vegetables i only eat raw carrots and mashed potatoes
pfrllc
The real compromise of all of this would be to stay by the Kosher laws. Why do you think the Jews were given these laws? If they weren't given to keep the people healthy while maintaining balance of morals, why do you think Iehova gave the laws to them? You see, if Iehova did not love all of his creations equally, then everything in the Hebrew Scriptures would be changed, and so would the modern day world.

I believe that the radicals on both sides of this argument should settle to become Kosher, though they don't have to become Jewish for this to happen. It is only logical that you must eat meat, but the animal cruelty point of views cannot be completely forgotten, so eating meat killed through certain laws that regulate against cruelty would be the ultimate compromise.
vinodmishra
I had been a vegetarian my whole life and will remain to be so. Infact in India many ppl are vegetarians and I like it that way only. I dont have any grudge for those who are not. Its a matter of personal choice. And those who say being a vegetarian means u should be thin, should see me Razz

[FuN]goku wrote:
yeck i hate vegetables i only eat raw carrots and mashed potatoes

Thats cuz in your country not many varieties are available in case of vegetarian food. You should come to India once Smile
vagabond2684
it's a nice idea to save the animals. and cruelty is a pretty popular trait to discourage. but i'm curious how far you take it?

swearing off meat is one thing. but what about eggs? that sort of paralells the abortion debate. both eggs and milk involve 'exploiting' animals, no matter how nicely it's done. you recognize the animals right to life, but how about liberty and persuit of happiness?

and have you given last rights to all your assorted leather goods and buried them in the back yard? it wouldn't make much sense to deny yourself beef on ethical grounds and then consume it's by-product.

and there is always the question of a plants right to life. i don't see much reason to give the right to life only to the animal kingdom but deny it to the other four. except starvation of course...

will you stop driving cars because of the risk of road kill? just think about all those bugs that splatter away their lives on your windshield.

and if you are a pet owner would you enable your cat or dog to deprive other members of animalia of life?

in the end you'll be contributing in some way to the demise of countless individual organisms just by the simple act of living. the only way to stop taking life is to stop living.

so how far do you take it?
Ryuukei
I really admire vegitarians for thier ethics, but some do take it a bit too far. Attacking others about thier choice of food is not good. I eat meat. You don't. That probably isn't going to change anytime soon. I'm not going to give up eating meat because it was treated badly before it died. Even though I abhor animal cruelty.
mtorregiani
Hi!, I'm new here

I like the meat and the idea to save animals, but a cow is not an animal in danger of extinction. I'd like to save pandas or deers, but I think I never will be a vegetarian.

Except if my doctor says Laughing
Tomppe
Sometimes i think about that you're saying. But i cant think that i'm just eating greens and beans.. It's a really har thing that vegetarism.. I want to save the animals but at the same time i like meet etc.
mtorregiani
Just choose


neosree
I am a half vegitarian. I didn't eat meals or fish. But I like Eggs. So I am not killing any animals. Being a vegitarian is better than non-veg. In future life those non-veg es may face many health problems. So in my opinion it is good to become a veg.
TimsJugling
I think its awsome! although I do luvvvvvvvv MEAT!!! lol

I think its great that people are saving animals though.

They should think of it as saving Gods great creations. dont yu think?
leftofcenter
Quote:
swearing off meat is one thing. but what about eggs? that sort of paralells the abortion debate.


I could be wrong on this, but I was told that eggs sold in stores are 'duds,' eggs that would never develop into a chicken. (My mom told me that when I was 7 or 8 because I was afraid the eggs were going to hatch in our refrigerator. Rolling Eyes )
UBOSiege
Nyizsa wrote:
I respect animals, and you're right about the "abusement of the system". But I happen to be a meat-lover also. My grandmother has some animals (chicken and pork, mostly), and they are kept well. And they are killed in a "humanic way", if it's not contradictory.
So, I can't imagine my life without meat. And an other quote (from I don't know who):
If God wanted us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made animals of meat.


Excellent quote there, I feel the same way. I love a good medium-rare steak & I dont see any way that my love for them could ever end. So, I pretty much don't even acknowledge vegetarianism as an option.
statusfashions
Hi,
This Is supposed to be my 100th post. and i couldnt think a better topic than this one.
I am jain by religion and we Jains Are Vegetarians. THis Is a Small Article Which I Think Can Provide Scientific and religious reason for being vegetarian.
i would think my life worth if i can even convert one non veg person into a vegetarian.
There are two important reasons for adopting vegetarianism. Many people are vegetarians because of their religious beliefs. Others are vegetarians because a vegetarian diet is good for health.

Jains are vegetarians because they believe in nonviolence. Violence means to kill or injure, to be angry or be greedy, to engage in self-torture, to be intolerant, not listening to what other people are saying, etc. If we do not take proper care of our body and mind, we are committing violence of self. A vegetarian diet is natural and better for our health as described below. Thus vegetarianism helps us avoid violence of self.

Vegetarians do not eat meat, poultry or fish. There are three kinds of vegetarians, based on their attitude to milk and eggs. Vegans do not take eggs or milk. Lacto's do not eat eggs but they do drink milk. Lacto-ovo's eat eggs and drink milk. Jains are lacto's.

Here are some health reasons why some people don't eat meat:

1. To protect their heart.

Animal fat and high cholesterol diet may set a stage for heart disease. In some places where very little fat is eaten, the death rate from heart disease is lower than in other places.

2. To reduce the risk of cancer.

Animal fat and cholesterol have been linked to some forms of cancer such as the cancer of colon, breast and uterus. The National Academy of Sciences reported in 1983 that "people may be able to prevent many common cancers by eating less fatty meats and more vegetables and grains." A vegetarian diet also reduces the risk of kidney trouble.

3. To control their weight.

Vegetarian diet is bulky and filling. The caloric value of a six-ounce steak (with its fat) equals that of a whole pound of cooked noodles. Thus most people lose weight when they go on a vegetarian diet. This also reduces the risk of high blood pressure, diabetes and back troubles.

Man is vegetarian by nature. Vegetarian food is more suited to the human body. We do not require animal proteins for strength and energy. A physiological comparison of meat-eater, herbivore and man proves this statement. A meat-eater has claws, has no skin pores and perspires through the tongue. A meat-eater has sharp front teeth for tearing and no flat molars for grinding. The intestinal tract of a meat eater is only three times his body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass out quickly. A meat-eater has strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat. A herbivore has no claws and perspires through skin pores. He does not have sharp front teeth and has flat rear molars. His intestinal tract is about ten times the body length, and stomach acid, twenty times less strong than meat-eaters. A man has no claws, perspires through skin pores, has no sharp front teeth and has flat rear molars. The intestinal tract of a man is twelve times his body length, and stomach acid, twenty times less strong than meat-eaters. Once within the stomach, meat requires digestive juices high in hydrochloric acid. A man's stomach does not have it. Another important fact is that our intestinal tract is too long where food is further digested and nutrients are passed into the blood. The putrefaction of meat in our long intestinal tract produces poisonous wastes . That is why meat must be eliminated from our diet.

The basic foods in a vegetarian diet are: cereals, grains, bread, nuts, beans, seeds, fruits and vegetables. Most vegetable proteins are incomplete and most animal proteins are complete. Our bodies require complete proteins to function properly. So vegetarians combine vegetable proteins in a way that makes them complete. Two or more vegetables and grains, nuts,etc., having incomplete proteins, can be combined in a meal to form complete proteins. Here are three simple ways to do it:

1. Combine legumes (dried peas, beans, lentils) with grains (barley, wheat, rice, rye).

2. Combine legumes with nuts and seeds.

3. Combine milk products with any vegetable protein.

If we practice vegetarianism, we will be able to satisfy our religious beliefs and also maintain our health


I will be posting more on vegetarian next time.
42mart2
I eat meat, but I am perfectly fine that other people dont....It's perfectly free choise! Very Happy
Danny666
I am not a vegetarian because I like a meat but i eat only chiken Exclamation
but only few per month so that i don't kill so much of animals.I never eat
fish or something like that because i dont like it Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
Nyizsa
leftofcenter wrote:
I could be wrong on this, but I was told that eggs sold in stores are 'duds,' eggs that would never develop into a chicken. (My mom told me that when I was 7 or 8 because I was afraid the eggs were going to hatch in our refrigerator. Rolling Eyes )

Yes, eggs coming from a chicken farm are infertile, since there are no roosters (or they can't reach the hens - which is alone a form of cruelty!). But eggs you buy from village people are likely to be fertile. So, put it in a hot place for 21 days, and see what happens!

To statusfashions:
I think milk contains more fat than any kind of meat, since it is intended to feed the young animal, who needs a lot of energy, protein and other stuff. What you described is a nice way to live, but I don't think it's so important to change other people. I am a meat-lover myself, but I respect vegetarians (even if I don't understand them). So I also expect other people not to tell me what to eat.

And for all of you who liked my previous quote, here's an other one:
I could live much longer if I didn't eat meat, didn't drink alcohol, didn't smoke, didn't chase women, but what for?
jfcliverpool
really meat isnt made for us its rumoured that its the same with milk thats its not really good for you as its not mae for humans i was sshocked when i heard it as a nutritionist told me.
Jeslyn
Quote:
ould be wrong on this, but I was told that eggs sold in stores are 'duds,' eggs that would never develop into a chicken. (My mom told me that when I was 7 or 8 because I was afraid the eggs were going to hatch in our refrigerator.



As the person said before, store bought eggs are eggs that have not been fertilized. Human eggs that have not been fertilized = menstration. Hence, eating a chicken egg is the equivalent of eating someone's period. Laughing

Or, so I've been told.
goutha
I respect vegetarians, but I think that I can be one of them. I like so much beef, lamb, fish... I can't turn vegetatian.

However, the middle is the best. Eat alot of vegetables and less red meat to be healthy.
benwhite
A lot of people who switch to vegetarianism for health reasons end up unhealthy and undernourished. Animal products contain a lot of amino acids and nutrients the human body needs which are often hard to get in sufficient qualities.

Of course it's easy to rememedy this problem with careful diet or with the help of multivitamins etc. However, that doesn't change the fact that vegetarianism is not in and of itself healthier.

Meat with moderation is healthy.
Texas Al
Judging from how much people are repeating stuff that's already been said, it sounds like you're not reading each other's posts.
smokey4life
As i agree with many of your guys opionions and thoughts as well as morals i have to eat my meat. Very Happy

I mean who could live without a juicy hanburger or steak everyonce in a while? Thats the circle of life and the foodchain!! you not eating certain animals and meat or whatever is not going to stop the next animal up from eating it so whats the difference?
atin
Politically, ethically, and morally, I agree with vegetarianism.

However, if you had tasted one of my friends curries which she concocts entirely without meat you would understand why I am loathed to give up the pleasures of flesh. he
karysky
I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't like the taste of red meat. Except in Spaghetti sauce !

I very much like chicken though, and recently I started eating fish to improve my health.

Although I am against cruelty made to the animals, I think that meat is an important part in one's alimentation. However, I did find somewhere that a typical american eats 3 times more meat than required, and that could lead to health problems, such as obesity. A meat portion is as small as a deck of card, and you should always respect this ratio in your plate:

1/3 of meat, proteins
2/3 of vegetables.
freedomandjustjuice
Well here's a post i can get my teeth stuck into!!

I'm a vegetarian, let me clarify that a bit though, i believe we are biologically designed to eat meat, fair point, i like meat and i have killed and eaten rabbits, fish and other small edible animals, my great grandfather owned a butchers where i regularly used to play tricks with turkey heads, I now only eat free range organic eggs and use organic milk, i also buy all of my produce like fruit vegetables and cheese from a local market sourced from mostly within wales, rather than a supermarket, i also buy seasonal foods in season and cook appropriately (not that i'm all that good at that bit!!).

This is why, i think that global food suply chains cannot cope with the population as it is, demand far outstrips suply, you only have to look at Niger and much of central Africa to see what i mean, but why is this your problem your from Europe/America/Other generalised 'Western/Developed' country? And how does vegetarianism fit in? Well first of all it just is, deal with it. and second of all fruit, vegetables, grains and cereals are all primary producers, they take nutrients directly from the soil and use the suns energy to make food (complex carbs), We can then eat these plants and then extract nutrition from them ourselves (we are secondary producers for this reason), this is a very efficient system producing little waste, the problem when you introduce livestock like cattle or sheep for food is that the quantity of primary producers (plants) needed to feed to the secondary producers (animals) to provide the same energy as simply eating the primary producers is proportionately massive. this is because there is so much invested in a cow for such a comparatively small return, remember that a plant doesn't need to develop complicated bone structures and masses of internal organs.

And if you eat exotic fruit and veg, and i just mean food thats come from the 'developing' world, then the pollution caused on your behalf in freight is horiffic, in the US an average meal travels around 1,500 miles. Besides your probably causing poor farmers to be pushed off their land and massive biodiversity loss hundreds of miles away. If it came from nearby you'd care alot more!! Einstein once said something about us not being able to call ourselves civilised until every person has the same advantages, i agree with him!

So don't send €£$ every month to some aid charity, become a responsable consumer!!

I've put a couple of links in bellow with some more information about related things but i can't really reference all of that easily, i study Environmental Conservation so alot of it i forgot where i read it or used it now but i'll back it up if you ask!!
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?142
http://www.eco-action.net/id101.htm

SEB
srdjan
My girlfriend is a vegetarian, mostly for reasons that involve cruelty inflicted on animals..Sometimes I also think the same, especially when I see how "meat is grown" on those big farms...you know, cows on a track and then there is this big hammer thing smashes their head and stuff... or (as someone already mentioned) those chicken grinders..
I mean that's really not cool man! But on the other hand, those animals don't know any other life, so maybe it isn't as hard as we imagine.

Oh and do you know that pigs actually live the moment of slaughter through, with feelings, just as you or I would? And that they are smarter than dogs, for example?
And another thing for all of you pig eaters..did you know the pig flesh tastes kinda like the human flesh? I know...personal expirience Twisted Evil

But anyways, I must say that all is the matter of habit. All of my family eats loads of meat, so I do too, with them...But when my gf cooks for me I eat vegetarian, and she is so good, that I would have no problems switching completely!
As for vitamines, proteins and other sources of energy in meat..all of those exist in vegetables, and much more..All meat can give you is cholesterol, weight, disease, and yes, that wonderful juicy feeling when you bite into it! haha Very Happy
cheerz, and bon apetitte!
bluedragon
I love chicken. I wouldn't be able to live without chicken.

Obviously human beings were created to be omnivorous. We were given the right sets of teeth so that we can consume both plant and animal. That's how we were made. It gives a whole new meaning to Intelligent Design.

So, eat chicken. Free range, if you're really concerned about the beakless, featherless ones that get mushed together to make your McChicken. Though, I must say the rotisserie chickens from your local Wal-Mart Supercenter at under five dollars make for a tasty meal. If I'm saving money, I don't care about ethics and politics. I'm poor, damnit. Why else would I need free webhosting?

"Animal activists will f$#k you up. Do not f$#k with animal activists, just don't do it. And especially, especially, do not f$#k with vegans. Do not look vegans in the eye ... If you get in an argument with a vegan just say 'I'm wrong!' and run away, as fast as you can. Don't f$#k with vegans, they will f$#k you up ... because they're HUNGRY!" ~ Margaret Cho
[FuN]goku
vegetarianism sux ¬_¬
pfrllc
This is a good point, that this decision is ultimately a matter of free will, but in order to settle arguments, compromises are normally made (If not, war is waged!).
pfrllc
neosree wrote:
I am a half vegitarian. I didn't eat meals or fish. But I like Eggs. So I am not killing any animals. Being a vegitarian is better than non-veg. In future life those non-veg es may face many health problems. So in my opinion it is good to become a veg.


One question:
How do you think the human race has lived all these years?

If they didn't hunt, they wouldn't have been able to survive in the regions where there are no plants. A wooly mammoth would suffice anyone if that ws the person's only manner of survival.
COTC
I am an ex-vegetarian.
I see no problem with the lifestyle. IN fact, I respect it, but the 'animal cruelty' reason has always had me baffled. We are omnivores. We eat meat. The only animals that are cruelly treated are calves for veal. MOST animals raised for food are treated like kings. Farming is not animal cruelty (grew up on a dairy farm and have helped with steer and swine farmers as well).
Also, hunting is not animal cruelty. It's hunting. As long as it is done for food and not for sport, I see nothing wrong with it. When I used to hunt (I don't anymnore cuz frankly, it's cold in the winter), I would use the meat for food, the hide for various clothing and such, the brains to tan the hide, the intestines for sinew, and often, the boones as adornments. That is respecting the animal and thanking it for what it has offered.
The health issue has always boggled me too. We get proteins from flesh that are not (contrary to popular belief) in other foods such as soy, cheese, etc.

Anyway... there's my 2¢ on it. Smile
Custom
I couldnt live with out meat cus I really hate vegetables so your on your own mate no offence intended but I have never liked veg so I wont become a vege in there near future!
COTC
mtorregiani wrote:
Hi!, I'm new here

I like the meat and the idea to save animals, but a cow is not an animal in danger of extinction. I'd like to save pandas or deers, but I think I never will be a vegetarian.

Except if my doctor says Laughing


Deer definitely aren't in danger of extinction. In fact, there is a serious population boom with them.
And they taste good.
Bookface
vagabond2684 wrote:
it's a nice idea to save the animals. and cruelty is a pretty popular trait to discourage. but i'm curious how far you take it?

swearing off meat is one thing. but what about eggs? that sort of paralells the abortion debate. both eggs and milk involve 'exploiting' animals, no matter how nicely it's done. you recognize the animals right to life, but how about liberty and persuit of happiness?

and have you given last rights to all your assorted leather goods and buried them in the back yard? it wouldn't make much sense to deny yourself beef on ethical grounds and then consume it's by-product.

and there is always the question of a plants right to life. i don't see much reason to give the right to life only to the animal kingdom but deny it to the other four. except starvation of course...

will you stop driving cars because of the risk of road kill? just think about all those bugs that splatter away their lives on your windshield.

and if you are a pet owner would you enable your cat or dog to deprive other members of animalia of life?

in the end you'll be contributing in some way to the demise of countless individual organisms just by the simple act of living. the only way to stop taking life is to stop living.

so how far do you take it?


Well, I've just started going vegan earlier this week, and I'm going to see how long I can last. So I suppose that answers your egg/dairy issues. [but also see my comment later about clothing]

As for my reasons, well... I guess I'm trying to minimize the suffering in this world as best as I can. And doing a little research on it, I wasn't convinced by the anti-vegetarian movements I looked into that meat was necessary. I was convinced by the veggie movements that pro-meat and pro-dairy people are often lying or just plain wrong, because of emotional reasons or $$$.

I'm not yet cutting out the leather and wool from my clothing supply, but I don't buy all that much clothing, and while the percentage that I do buy that is of those types of products is small, I don't really think about it much.

I don't think it's hypocritical to stop eating meat and still wear wool. It seems to me that if you kill 90 animals for your food and 2 animals for your clothing normally, and then cut down to 2 animals for your clothing, that's still a pretty good improvement.

I don't deny that plants have some form of consciousness -- they can respond to the sun, they can respond to vibrations, they are in a minimal sense aware of the world. However, a) this consciousness is minimal, and b) their lifespans are usually not much longer than after they are ripe for our consumption, because they are genetically selected to be consumed (so that the seeds spread.)

I say that they don't really know what's happening to them. And as a pre-emptive strike to those who would say I don't know because I'm not a vegetable, I give the following parable:

One day Zhuangzi and Huizi are strolling on Bridge Hao.
Zhuangzi : "Look how happy the fish are just swimming around in the river."
Huizi : "How do you know they are happy? You are not a fish."
Zhuangzi: "And you are not me. How do you know I don't know the fish are happy?"
Bookface
oh, just a quick explanation, in case you thought I was some kind of retard when I was saying animals were killed in the making of wool, when sheep are obviously not directly killed in the shearing process:

I have heard some sources, I think PETA, make the claim (I have not as of yet really checked it out for myself) that sheep are often sheared too late in the season to maximize their yield of wool and thus many die of exposure and pneumonia.

To be honest, this doesn't really make sense to me, since I don't see how it could possibly be the most profitible path, unless for some reason I'm not thinking of there's great expense in keeping a sheep alive of 10 or 11 months until the next shearing season.
bluedragon
Being a vegan is expensive. Sad

<---POOR Crying or Very sad
eday2010
One thing I always say to these vegetarian/vegan types is that for every animal they don't eat, I will eat three.

Being vegetarian is fine and dandy, but when they start preaching about it (and I am not saying that is happening here, just to be clear), it drives me nuts. They made their choice, so leave me alone and let me make mine. Vegans/vegetarians end up eating more vegetables and grains. Sure, that doesn't kill farmed animals, but they have ot have fields to grow these grains and such for the vegans to eat. What about the animals that are displaced by those farm fields? That's cruel, no? Some die from it because there isn't enough food for them or space.

I like my meat, and will continue to eat it. I don't eat at KFC though, because of how they treat their chickens. McDonald's has adopted more humane ways of processing their meat, so good for them. I'll eat there. Everything has to die. Fruits and vegetables are alive, and have even been shown to have a kind of nervous system. That's murder too. Vegans should be eating nothing but tree bark and moss if they want to be kinder to nature.

Now, where is my porterhouse steak cooked rare? Razz

(P.S. - this post is not an attack on anyone; just somefun-filled ribbing. Mmmm..ribs) Razz
gothicgeek
I can't believe the way some people are callously dismissing some of the terrible treatment of animals that happens in factory farms. They are in an unnatural enviroment, in terrible pain until they eventually die from malnutrition or sickness. I consider it very perverse and eat organic and free range as much as possible. We actually have our own flock of chickens which we get healthy, natural eggs from. Happy chickens = good eggs. Very Happy


About veggetarians eating plants and killing bugs:
The thing is, insects and plants have no central nervous system, no pain, no problem. Wink

Oh yeah and did that one person know that the eggs are NOT baby chickens unless they've been fertilized, in which case they're probably never eaten. You definitely wouldn't find one in a supermarket.
vinx_18
I agree to those who are vegetarians...I'm trying to be a vegetarian but I can't coz I love to eat meat too.... HOw can I'll be a vegetarian? PLease teach me or give me some tips....
Ressurrector
I love hamburgers sorry mane
Dorfinger
There are as many reasons for becoming vegetarian as there are vegetarians; it's a highly personal and individual decision to make. But in a survey conducted on behalf of The Vegetarian Society the majority of people said that they gave up meat and fish because they did not morally approve of killing animals, or because they objected to the ways in which animals are kept, treated and killed for food.
With the growing awareness of the importance of healthy food, many people are also becoming vegetarian because it matches the kind of low fat, high fibre diet recommended by dieticians and doctors. Concern about the environment is another factor as people become more aware of the effect raising animals for their meat is having on the environment. Or you may be concerned about wasting world food resources by using land to raise animals for meat instead of growing crops that can feed more people directly.
COTC
Bookface wrote:
oh, just a quick explanation, in case you thought I was some kind of retard when I was saying animals were killed in the making of wool, when sheep are obviously not directly killed in the shearing process:

I have heard some sources, I think PETA, make the claim (I have not as of yet really checked it out for myself) that sheep are often sheared too late in the season to maximize their yield of wool and thus many die of exposure and pneumonia.

To be honest, this doesn't really make sense to me, since I don't see how it could possibly be the most profitible path, unless for some reason I'm not thinking of there's great expense in keeping a sheep alive of 10 or 11 months until the next shearing season.


I really wouldn't trust anything PETA says. I was a member of PETA for a while, but they are slightly confused on their cause. They are actually nothing more than a political organization and few of them have a CLUE about what is and what isn't cruel to animals nor about how to treat animals. I am very much anti-PETA... and very pro-animal rights.
Bookface
eday2010 wrote:
They made their choice, so leave me alone and let me make mine...

Vegans/vegetarians end up eating more vegetables and grains. Sure, that doesn't kill farmed animals, but they have ot have fields to grow these grains and such for the vegans to eat. What about the animals that are displaced by those farm fields? That's cruel, no? Some die from it because there isn't enough food for them or space...

McDonald's has adopted more humane ways of processing...

Fruits and vegetables are alive, and have even been shown to have a kind of nervous system. That's murder too. Vegans should be eating nothing but tree bark and moss if they want to be kinder to nature.


First of all, I'm not attacking you either, nor do I presume to try and convince you or change your mind. I've just started going vegan about a week ago now and I don't even know if I'm going to stick with it, yet. Even at best, I'm going to have to set up some exceptions, as I refuse to (for instance) be excluded from eating somewhere with friends if there are no options for vegan food. But it doesn't seem to be a problem in general, and the only issue I've had so far was a pizzera.

I was curious about McDonald's commitment to humane treatment, which I haven't heard of before. I don't think I trust PETA and their propaganda, but nonetheless there is some information here:
http://www.peta.org/feat/paulmc/factsheet.html

My understanding is that they've developed humane ways of killing, but not raising the animals. That's the real issue for me, the pain of life... though preferably death should come quickly, if they suffer a little for a minute or two I'm more okay with that, but for i.e. cows living in stalls for months where they have to defecate and urinate and can't even move around and are force-fed through a tube, sometimes till their stomachs explode, seems much worse to me. I want to minimize that as much as possible. I wouldn't mind them being killed off to make room for the vegetable fields, but I mind that they are being penned up.

Free range stuff isn't a problem for me (though for now I'm testing the claims that there's no nutritional requirements or benefits in eating meat or dairy, and swearing off all of it.) There's plenty of non-aerable land that could be used for raising cattle or livestock, but not for vegetables or crops. The problem is that cheap big-production big-business farms don't want to spend the money on a decent chunk of land.

I don't know about this "nervous system" you're talking about in plants. Plants can respond minimally to certain conditions like vibration, sunlight, etc. But I don't think they get quite as far as being "aware" and that's a pretty big jump.
PADRE[P.S.]
I dont think people have to limit their ration, but we should save nature, eating meet grown at the stock farm.
sammistrychnine
While being vegetarian is helping to reduce the amount of animal crueltyy cases out there, it's never going to abolish it. People are always going to kill animals for money, be it for money or clothing or bones.

I was vegetarian for a few years, and rather proud that I convinced quite a few friends to try it. I mean, hardcore meat-lovers, eating gardenburgers.

While I still don't eat much meat, I'm no longer handcore vegetarian because the only thing that will stop people from injuring / torturing / killing animals is if they become totally useless to us. And we will always find some way to use other species to our advantage.
Mike Schaefer
As I am writing this I am chomping down on a hot dog. I admire vegetarians but I could never convince my wife to go without. Not to mention I don't think I could do with a big juicy rare filet mignon. I would definitly benefit health wise from going all veggie. Lower my cholesteral, loose the spare tire. However, I'm a gultton. I know its a sin. There is just a certain amount of pleasure derived from cutting into that thick steak and seeing it squirm ... just a little.
Dustin
If my memory serves me correctly i believe that the greatest site in the universe had an article about this. It basically defined my belifs in vegitarians and that is "for every animal you dont eat, i will eat 2". It may sound unfair (and it is) but i love meat and the way i see it by eating cows i am techincally saving cows, because if people didnt eat cows there would be no cows. Lets face it, they arnt exactly the best at surviving in the wilderness Laughing
sanjito
animals have a place in this world. right next to the potatoes and gravy!!
Wotac
I think we should eat meat too.

Somewhere in the world people eat bugs. I think that's because they don't really have so many options to choose. If human's stomach is able to eat meat, then it should eat it. At least we're not eating meat only.

And some people are vegetarians, so they stabilize our food chain enough so I'm able to eat meat without compunctions.

Human is not really vegetarian or meat-eater. Human's are collectors. We pick up mushrooms and berries, hunt animals and breed grain. Eating only mushrooms, berries or meat propably just makes you sick.

I think that you can't just say that american's are fat because they eat meat, they are fat because they eat everything and way too much of it. I eat meat too. I eat in McDonald's sometimes and still I'm everything else but over-weight.
metalwitch
I am far from a religious guy or here to spout things that no one wants to hear, but I have a couple of things to say. and I like you are entitled my opinion.

1) we are to live off the land and what is provided to us

2) if it weren't for our ancestors eating meat most of us wouldn't even be here today

3) I don't care how inhumane you say things are about killing animals, don't plants live too?, do you not kill them when you violently rip them from their roots?

4) animals are not people and I don't believe they should be treated as such, mind you I in no means support unnecessary cruelty towards them. but I think it is stupid to dress an animal in clothes

5) cows, pigs, deer I eat and so do most people and hmm, did you realize that most if are not shot and eaten will grow wild in population, hence whay hunting is still legal.

6) mind you I am not putting down veggie eaters or that lifestyle in no way. eat what you want, but don't critisize anyone for eating what they want to too.
and don't boo hoo if someone sits down beside you and puts down a triple whopper, you eat what you want, don't you dare tell me what to eat.

7) we are by nature a meat eating species, if we do not eat any meat at all we would become sick and that, sorry that is a proven fact, meat provides protiens and some other nurients that can't be gotten anywhere else.

8) don't think for a minute that you are healthy just because all you eat is grass.

9) and finally, I love meat and so do many other people, and people are eating just what they want, I am not putting down all vegetarians, but there are some fanatics that need to be forced to watch the fattest dude around sit and throw down a few dozen Big Mac's. it's like these tree huggers or animal rights activists, stay home animals are not as intelligent as humans although there are few exceptions to that, and what rights do they need to possess, other than not being forced into extinction or being abused by owners that could care less to own them, and I have one final thought for all you people who think it's sooooo inhumane for animals to step foot outside let alone live out there, ......

....we domesticated animals did we not?
....were animals before we came along not doing just fine out doors?
....are not animals born outside or even for that matter in Zoos that stay outside, or for that matter farm animals too live outdoors, or do you want to go and get that cougar or mountain lion that would just as soon have you for brunch as look at you, and take him in your house and pet his pwetty wittle head, and pull back a nub.

all I say is remeber this next time you preach to others that killing a cow is wrong, I for one am not hearing it....

and like I said that is not for the normal vegetarians only ones who wish to cram their beliefs down your throat, oh i'm sorry I can't preach to you my religion but you can preach to me your way of life, hell no..... where is the difference, I ask you,

too think of animal cruelty next time you sit in your car and wonder how are those leather seats soooo soft, and don that amazing leather jacket you bought, and your shoes that you think are soooo cool, and put on those work gloves that without them your hands would be as bloody as the cow you tried to save, that you are by the way wearing.

oh and by the way MERRY CHRISTMAS even though it is late, but it is for those who too wish to preach but not be preached too..
merry CHRIST mas
Wotac
Metalwitch has got a point there. I don't run around the town screaming that nobody is allowed to eat any mushrooms just because I don't like them. Everyone eat what they want to. Afterall it's not wrong to hunt to survive. We are just living so modern world that we don't have to hunt for food anymore, but it doesn't mean we wouldn't have to eat.
greywanderer
According to my worldview, life sustains itself on death. In order to survive, every living thing consumes other things that were once alive. To me, it is equally cruel kiling an animal or a plant, which are both living things.

I was once a vegetarian, partly because I felt bad about the inhumane way of killing chickens and other animals, but I have returned to an omnivorous diet for many reasons.

I think our world has seen various cultures more enlightened than our highly mechanized modern society, such as the native peoples who inhabited what is now the United States and Canada. These cultures killed animals (and plants) with a respect and acknowledgement for the cruel natural process of killing in order to survive. As part of their cultural mentality, many tribes looked upon their food as relatives and openly thanked their food for sustaining them, and prayed for their safe journey to the afterlife.

I think what our contemporary culture lacks is this intimacy with the "relatives" that we kill and put into our body in order to survive. What we have today is a hellish mechanized world pumped with hormones and flushed of humanity. Our mistake was to apply the assembly-line mentality to our food. Our life has become completely detached from nature and we can see the results: obesity, cancer, heart-disease...

One solution may be to support the return of the small farmer and traditional agriculture, which still has an effective (and healthy) place in the economy in many parts of the world, believe it or not!
drunkfun
YUMMMMM DEAD COW IS SO GOOD.

But nothing tastes better that Blue Whale. I just gobble that stuff down like it's wednesday
MWANGI
I personnally like meat tooo much.

There is no way I can ever become a vegetarian by all means whatsoever.

I just love meat.I respect vegetarians so I'm not against them or anything.I'm just against the ones who come to your place and start criticizing you and telling you how cruel you are and that I will soon become violent or even become a murderer or something like that.

I hate them. I really really hate those ones with all of my heart.

They should go eat in their own house. Very Happy
drunkfun
why don't we eat more dolphin and whale? they're mammals, they've been marinating in sea salt their entire life, they have lots of good meat... there shouldn't be any contention
taz161999
i don't really see what is so bad about eating meat. All that i can see is that i am eating an animal that was destined to die for a certain reason and that reason being to be inside of my gut. i will never turn vegetarian because i never want to go through all of that stuff. i just want to be happy and eat meat. for you vegetarians who are hard core and stuff i don't think that you are really happy. i think that you just feel bad for animals and stuff and i see where you are going with this but i really don't care. I think that eating meat is fine if you are happy and if you are a vegetarian and you are happy then it doesn't really matter. what i hate is when vegetarians criticize me about eating meat. i think that vegetarians should not criticize people about eating meat and promote your ideas. if you criticize people then other people aren't going to listen and thing that all vegetarians are like that. That is the reason why most people think vegetarians are mean and stuff because that is all that they say. all they do is bother other people about eating meat. All in all i think that whatever makes you happy is what you should do unless it is illegal. if you are happy eating deer or boar or anything then just keep on doing it. there is an abundant supply of animals to eat so it doesn't really matter about saving them. if there was a shortage or anything then i think that it would be a bad thing to eat them. some people say that it is inhumane to eat meat and i agree in some parts but i disagree in most parts. i think about my animals and how bad i would feel if someone ate them but animals that no one cares about should be eaten. I have a vegeatarian friend and he said that he cares about all animals and i think that is a crock because no one knows all of the animals in the world. you are only emotionally connected to the ones that they care about and that is whay they think that eating meat is bad. Anyway, my views on eating animals is that we should kill as many animals that we can and eat them to the bone.
webapp
When it comes to vegetarianism I consider myself pure vegetarian....

Folks allow me to introduce you to this new concept...Wink

I eat Vegetables or things which are vegetarian....for ex Cow is a vegetarian animal so eating meat falls into this pure vegetarian area...Wink


Going by the same concept irrespective of which animal u eat it still makes u Vegetarian....for instance one of my friends was asking me...how will i still be vegetarian if i ever eat a tiger or a lion....

The answer i use to give was "See Tiger is a vegetarian animal going by the same concept...it eats deer/cow etc..... " Eating it will still make me a vegetarian...

So i consider myself PURE VEGETARIAN....
Ultima1080
Eh, I'm not sure if it works that way....But if animals didn't want to be eaten...you would figure they would have somehow evolved a way to not be made of something that is delicious when cooked. Maybe if cows were made of rocks...we'd eat less of them...hmmm....

Just kidding.

To quote a very great man..."I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat f*cking carrots". Yeah, it would suck to be an animal if you knew that you were just going to die. But they don't. Humans are the only creatures that realize their own deaths. I mean, cows get all the food they want and don't get treated too terribly. Then, instead of getting old and dying of being old and cancerous, they get cut down in the prime of life when they're reasonably happy. Its not that cruel. Deal with it and eat it...or someone else will.
Timoses
I couldn't live without meat. It's like my staple food. There's a lot of other
food without meat but a roast beef, or a steak, or Schnitzel and Bratwurst.
I couldn't resist that. But it's very subjective so everybody has to decide for oneself what he/she wants to eat.
cjtreid
I love food, but I also hate fat people.

So I am very careful to eat a lot, but eat healthily.

HOWEVER, I think that the fact some people CHOOSE to live without meat is UNBELIEVABLE!
Meat is amazing, one of the best things ever

How can you not eat it?!?!?
flashmoto
I don't eat meat but do take vitamins so it doesn't effect my health. Very Happy
valkyrie-heavens
Ive thought about becoming a vegitarian many times before. One of my best friends is a vegitarian and she is very pleased with herself. I guess it gives u a feeling of accomplishment when u think about all the animals ur saving. Shes also gained a better self esteem beause of the weight she has lost. I myself would not do it for weight loss but for the animals. I love animals to death... but my only concern is getting the proper nutrients that u get from meat. There are other alternatives but eating healthy and substituting meat products can be very costly.
adwya
i think it is


vagina




lol



Laughing
zplitstonez
Well it's a nice post, hehehe, i'm not a vegetarian and i don't eat vegetables everyday, but somehow i ate it some other times, because i know that it is good for our body. I really want to be a vegetarean when i was still a child, but when i started eating some vegetables i found out that it taste different, hehehehe, i can't take it anymore, i can't even swallow it, because if i do maybe i'll throw-up.....Well just never mind it, keep on eating vegetables. Makes your life worth living. LONG LIVE VEGETARIANS.
sk8er_gurl_31
My dad owns a health food store, and he sells a whole bunch of organic, vegetarian friendly stuff. Like tofu! Yuck! Once I man came in and bought tofu, organic veggies, and 4 or 5 boxes of tea. He said to meand my sister," You guys should really be vegetarians. It's the best you'll ever feel in your life!" Now my sister won't eat any fruit (although I got her to eat apple once and she liked it) or vegetables. Except for potato. She looked at me like "Help me!" but, the man merely shrugged and left with his armful of tofu. YUCKY!
please.be.quiet
for all the vegetarians reading this thread...

are you vegetarian because of taste or morals?
peterstephens
To eat meat an animal has to be killed.
rasputinrockband
I think I have an interesting viewpoint on this subject as I am a vegitarian but not as a result animal rights protestors etc. I acctually used to be the biggest meat eater you have ever met, and at one point my buddy was having a bbq every night for 2 weeks in the summer. So we'd go over and eat and eat and eat until we were sore.

I ended up with really bad food poisoning which caused four days of violent vomiting, cold and hot flashes, vicious shaking and teeth chattering, oral and visual hallucinations, and just the worst possible abdominal pain imaginable.

After that I couldnt bring myself to eat meat...I tried a couple of times, and it usually resulted in a very sick feeling...probably just a conditioned emotional response, but regardless, this is the reason i do not eat meat. I do eat fish and sea food however.

Anyway, this has given me a pretty interesting point of view, as I have had many discussions with non-vegitarians and vegitarians alike, and have done plenty of research on the subject.

I have come to the conclusion that:

-Eating meat is part of nature's food chain. Does a cheetah feel bad about killing a gazelle? hell no! it eats it to survive, and to get the protien it's body needs to grow and be strong.

-Does eating a pound of Tofu a day help you at all? Hell no. Research has proven that veggie suplements can be very bad for your heart, expecially tofu. They can also cause other problems with your circulation problems.

-Does your vegitarianism detour the killing of animals for food? Hell no. Many of the companies that provide "meat free" meat and suplments are owned by the worlds largest beef and pork producers.

-Are there problems with the way animals are terminated and treated? Hell yes. There are much more humain ways to kill animals then what is being done right now. But that is because it is cheaper, and people will always go with whats cheaper. Its terrible, but its a realilty, whether or not you believe eating meat is right or wrong, i'm sure we can all agree that we wouldnt want our dog or cat to be treated so cruelly. We can all still eat meat, and call for more humain killing methods. Its not hipocritical at all.

Does being a vegitarian make you a better person? Hell no. Even if you are a super vegan ultra protestor, you will not be able to escape every possible material that "makes the world an unfair place" if you are writing in these forums you own a computer, which is made of plastic, which polutes the air and hurts animals and the environment. Everything anyone does can be disected under a microscope and something will be found that is "unhumain" or "unfair". So let's just all live to the best of our abilities as human beings, and stop bitching at one another all the time.
Vrythramax
I have nothing against vegatarians, more power to you. But I like my protien and I especially love my food when it used to have a face attached to it.

Meat is our friend.
poland21489
I REALLY don't want to be the heartless one here, but, eh, I personally am disappointed in vegetarianism, if thats a word.
The way we obtain our food is truly horrible. I've seen the cruelty that goes into it. However, thats how nature goes. Have you ever seen wolves take down a deer? They tear it apart for precious sustenance before its even dead. At least "civilized" human beings kill our food.
Then again, thats just me.
Hope I didnt offend anyone
Jack_Hammer
rasputinrockband wrote:
After that I couldnt bring myself to eat meat...I tried a couple of times, and it usually resulted in a very sick feeling...probably just a conditioned emotional response, but regardless, this is the reason i do not eat meat. I do eat fish and sea food however.


If you stop eating something for a long while (years) you body will not be able to cope easly with digesting it when you do eat it later. So if you eat veg. and meat, then you turn a veggie for a couple of years when you try to eat meat again you will be sick as your body is not used to it.
unexplained
rasputinrockband wrote:
I think I have an interesting viewpoint on this subject as I am a vegitarian but not as a result animal rights protestors etc. I acctually used to be the biggest meat eater you have ever met, and at one point my buddy was having a bbq every night for 2 weeks in the summer. So we'd go over and eat and eat and eat until we were sore.

I ended up with really bad food poisoning which caused four days of violent vomiting, cold and hot flashes, vicious shaking and teeth chattering, oral and visual hallucinations, and just the worst possible abdominal pain imaginable.

After that I couldnt bring myself to eat meat...I tried a couple of times, and it usually resulted in a very sick feeling...probably just a conditioned emotional response, but regardless, this is the reason i do not eat meat. I do eat fish and sea food however.

Anyway, this has given me a pretty interesting point of view, as I have had many discussions with non-vegitarians and vegitarians alike, and have done plenty of research on the subject.

I have come to the conclusion that:

-Eating meat is part of nature's food chain. Does a cheetah feel bad about killing a gazelle? hell no! it eats it to survive, and to get the protien it's body needs to grow and be strong.

-Does eating a pound of Tofu a day help you at all? Hell no. Research has proven that veggie suplements can be very bad for your heart, expecially tofu. They can also cause other problems with your circulation problems.

-Does your vegitarianism detour the killing of animals for food? Hell no. Many of the companies that provide "meat free" meat and suplments are owned by the worlds largest beef and pork producers.

-Are there problems with the way animals are terminated and treated? Hell yes. There are much more humain ways to kill animals then what is being done right now. But that is because it is cheaper, and people will always go with whats cheaper. Its terrible, but its a realilty, whether or not you believe eating meat is right or wrong, i'm sure we can all agree that we wouldnt want our dog or cat to be treated so cruelly. We can all still eat meat, and call for more humain killing methods. Its not hipocritical at all.

Does being a vegitarian make you a better person? Hell no. Even if you are a super vegan ultra protestor, you will not be able to escape every possible material that "makes the world an unfair place" if you are writing in these forums you own a computer, which is made of plastic, which polutes the air and hurts animals and the environment. Everything anyone does can be disected under a microscope and something will be found that is "unhumain" or "unfair". So let's just all live to the best of our abilities as human beings, and stop bitching at one another all the time.



Well i certainly agree n disagree with u .. IF you turn to vegeterain how the eco balance would be maintained .. and secondly if you are non-vegeterian what would u say to pamela anderson when she asks you abt it .. she wud be offended
kimrei
Hi, I know that this post is ridiculously long but please read it.

Y'know, most of these arguments against being a vegetarian for health resons are complete rubbish. In terms of protein there are 8 essential types which the human body cannot produce for itself, lacking any one of the 8 is normally what causes health problems in vegetarians. This is purely due to bad eating habits as they are all available in rice (not all rices) and soy (animals get them from plants in the first place after all).

Staying healthy is easy, here's my daily routine:
I take a cheap rice protein supplement every morning that gives me whatever proteins I need
I drink one glass of milk in the mornings and evenings for iron and calcium and take magnesium supplements to balance out the excess calcium.
I also drink a glass of fruit juice containing 15 mls of flaxseed oil + 15 mls lecithin granules which are vital to the healthy functioning of ones organs
For essential nutrients I take a daily multivitamin (which everyone should do)

^Ps. One should drink a minimum of 6 glasses of water a day, I count the supplements towards that.
^Pps. This costs less than $60 a month and is (for the super minimalist) enough to live on.
^Ppps The magnesium, daily supplement and lecithin granule producers I buy from donate minimum 50% gross profits to charity, many supplement wholesalers do the same (bonus good deed)

I also follow Dr. Peter D'Adamo's blood type diet (B+ for me, PS, this is a *health* diet not a weight loss diet although it serves as one) fairly strictly but allow exceptions (eg. I won't give up tomatoes (dissolve stomach lining & cause ulcers) nor wheat gluten (slows down metabolism and debilitates enzymes) entirely though I eat very little of either).

Sounds horrible right?

It's honestly mindblowingly fantastic,

I don't get tired
Can run for an hour without the least bit of exhaustion
After a year of sitting in school I decided to put on some muscle, took me 2 days to pick up a six pack (as opposed to the average of 10 weeks, and (ambiguity note I don't mean lift a sextet of beer, most people link that with a decline in health))
If I want I can get by on 2 hours sleep a day
In general I feel great and often get told that I look like I'm glowing.


Fsking cool right?


On to other things, for meat eaters who Love meat, there is a full range of *fake* meat products (non-GMO), which meat eaters generally tell me taste more like meat than meat does (Try the Fry's range), they are low in cholesterol, contain a full complement of all 20 proteins and are generally cheaper than their animal derived counterparts (I've done comparative pricing).

If you're curious as to how the taste is acheived please not that rose scented perfume contains no roses and vanilla essence doesn't contain vannila, chemical compounds called esters (which anyone having done organic chemistry in science class should know about) are used as potent flavourants (containing only strings of Hydrogen, Carbon and Oxygen atoms, that's it for taste).


I'm not a vegan, I'm a moral vegetarian, I don't mind milk & cheeses nor eggs (ps. eggs are not fertilized, aka. eating an egg is like chewing somebody elses fingernail (I know, bad analogy)) provided they are collected in a nor "evil" (I just say evil for the mental connotations) way, I view them as the animals rent for property and easily accessible & paid for food.

I only eat non-animal rennet cheeses, don't eat any product containing gelatine (I find that it's a good habit to read the ingredients on things so that one knows what's inside oneself), and of course I don't wear leather (fun fact: I was suspended from school for half a week for refusing to wear leather shoes last year (I know that there are look alikes but I wear size 13s so finding normal shoes is hard enough)).

Ps. in regards to sheep and neumonia, sheep are given synthetic jackets to keep them alive during cold weather, they don't just freeze to death, that would be stupid.

Pps. The eating of meat in todays civilized culture is ridiculous. People know that it is unnecessary, soy beans produce 10x the annual yeild per a field compared to livestock, and eating meat is kind of pointless, yes it's cruel, not just the treatment of pre-meal animals but being raised for the purpose in life of being a meal for some ignorant or lazy person.


From a purely logical point of view:

The flavour can be synthesized.
The quantity increased
Ditto for the health benefits
The price can be reduced
and any moral issues can be bypassed

(and yeah Ppps. It feels great to eat with no subconcious rumblings of guilt, pain and suffering, you do away with that subliminal flag that waves at you telling you that there's something wrong when you buy a pet goldfish, take your dog for a walk or play with a kitten and, of course, you do something nice:) )


So why not?
sonam
Hi,
I am vegetarian last 16 years. I think this is good for me and for animals but if someone cannot without meet that is his or hers chose. From my point of view people in past, thousand years ago, eating meat because they need meat for their daily life. Today people eat too much meat without real reason what is very bad for health. My friend, butcher, told me once: "If you eat sausage three days without anything else, you will die. You don’t know what you are eating." Of course, I didn’t stop eat meat at that time, but I still have this sentence in my mind. Last year I find one interesting site with same message. See this nice flash animation about meat factories:

http://www.themeatrix.com/ Wink


Sonam
vinodmishra
Wow..that ad was awesome Smile Btw as i mentioned earlier I am a vegetarian since 22 years, I mean by birth. I dont feel like eating animals. But I dont mind if some one else eats them. Its just a case of personal choice.
Weeminator
If one of you vegetarians feels like reading the Bible, in the book of Genesis, God says that animals were put here to eat. Fight it all you want, but it is the way things were meant to be. *Eats a steak*
Weeminator
Don't get me wrong, I love asparagus and peas and all kinds of veggies...but you can't possibly keep healthy without meat.
CompactHaven
Marston wrote:
How can you guys not eat meat? Meat is amazing.

Besides, animals don't have souls anyways. They don't go to heaven or anything... Damnit! For every animal you guys don't eat, I'll eat three!


Meeeeaaaat....

AHEM!
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor
Credit were credit is due. Cool
thiamshui
true.. it's very cruel to kill another animal to satisfy yourself.. however, it's not easy to convert to a vegetarian too.. it's human nature, or nature i should say, eating and being eaten..
willowmoon
The saying.. "it's the circle of life" was fine when people didn't throw chickens into grinders.. now it seems that animals are tortured and killed in a cruel way. I just don't understand how people have absolutely no compassion for living creatures anymore..
I am a practicing Wiccan... and I believe that nobody.. even animals.. have to die to feed somebody else. There are enough alternatives out there..
junodark
please.be.quiet wrote:
for all the vegetarians reading this thread...

are you vegetarian because of taste or morals?



I just became a vegetarian on Wednesday. And I didn't do it for either of those reasons.

In fact, I hate vegetables actually (so not taste), and I love meat (there goes the morals theory).

I read several different accounts of people who switched to vegetarian diets and found they had increased energy levels and better mental clarity. As a martial artist, thats a very attractive claim. So I'm doing it to see if I can get some health benefits from quitting meat.

However, I have watched the videos of the meat processing plants and seen the animal treatment before, but this never stopped me from loving all sorts of meat. Actually, when I told my family about my switch, they said "So basically, you're starving yourself?"

I would like to make it clear also that I did not switch because I believe that humans are designed to eat rabbit food, with our molars and jaw movement, saliva and intestines being longer then most carnivores. The back to nature arguement (Which, ironically both meat eaters and vegetarians use) always seemed pointless to me.
Raffles
Apoligies if this point has already been made.

If animals weren't meant to be eaten, why are they made out of meat?
bgillingham
Here's one fact to consider: 61% of adults in America are OBESE. I don't know any fat vegetarians (except for the ones at the zoo).

When people ask me why I became a vegetarian, they usually think that it has something to do with MY health. I always have to tell them that it is for the fate of the animals that are enslaved to feed us.

I don't need to eat meat. Don't believe anything that the USDA published in the last 100 years.

The reason that I don't eat meat is because it spares many animals from being forced into a life of cruel commercial production. I ask any meat eater to read about the treatment of their favorite meat.

Animals are not healthy to eat - period. When you eat higher on the food chain, not only are you consuming a greater concentration of all organic and synthetic organic pesticides, but you are overworking your liver by making it have to deal with the complex proteins.

The greatest problem with eating high on the foodchain is the fact that this takes so much more energy out of the system. Consider all of the land that the animal requires, including the land that it took to grow the grains to feed the animal. Studies indicate that it takes 12 times as much land to feed a meat eater than it does to feed a vegetarian. Twelve times is quite a large multiplier. By being a vegetarian, both the environment and your health will benefit.

When you have a limited number of acres of farm land, and the industrial farms must make profits, the result is inhumane cruelity to the animals.

We are not meant to drink the milk that comes from the tit of another creature. I am sorry. I just don't understand how this makes any sense. It is so disgusting if you think about what you are actually drinking. A cow creates milk that is nutritionally suited for YOUNG calfs. Cow juice? Doesn't sound appealing at all, does it?

I have had no deficiencies in the last fifteen years (having my blood test scrutinized on the point of nutrition - because you never know if the USDA is right, eh?). There is an elderly couple in my old hometown who ran a vegan market -- and they have been vegan for at least the last 60 years.... neither one of them is on ANY medications, and they are in great health. They joke about what their doctor said at their exams, but this is nothing to joke about.

Stop animal cruelty.
Raffles
hi.

"Stop Animal Crulety":
You don't have to stop eating meat for this, just buy proper meat. Avoid places like McDonalds and Burger King, which use the cheapest meat possible. Avoid supermarket meat, for the same reason. If you go to farmer's markets, or go to good farmers in person, you will get the most amazing meat you will ever taste. It's worth it. Cows and Sheep would die out if we didn';t eat them. Why else whould enyone look after them? They wouldn't survive in the wild.

It's the same as fair trade, buying as much as you can this way will help honest farmers. Use this same thinking with your meat, and you'll be helping Animals, the planet, and your fellow man, in an intelligent way.

My 2p.

R
junodark
Raffles wrote:
Cows and Sheep would die out if we didn';t eat them. Why else whould enyone look after them? They wouldn't survive in the wild.


Are you saying that it's somehow better to keep them around, let them survive as a species of food? I'm not saying it's wrong, but if you support keeping a species for a purpose other then to live, then you should also be supporting stem-cell research or cloning as a way to use human (albeit fetal form, or for our psychologists embryonic/fetal stages) as a source of medicine.

But anyway, I think you were posing a more moral standpoint, in which case I would ask you again what is moral about raising an animal with no chance of a future?
Raffles
junodark wrote:
Raffles wrote:
Cows and Sheep would die out if we didn';t eat them. Why else whould enyone look after them? They wouldn't survive in the wild.


Are you saying that it's somehow better to keep them around, let them survive as a species of food? I'm not saying it's wrong, but if you support keeping a species for a purpose other then to live, then you should also be supporting stem-cell research or cloning as a way to use human (albeit fetal form, or for our psychologists embryonic/fetal stages) as a source of medicine.

But anyway, I think you were posing a more moral standpoint, in which case I would ask you again what is moral about raising an animal with no chance of a future?


Hi Junodark

The only reson cows and sheep exist in their present form is through farming!

I would have said it is fine to breed them only for food. Farming is the way we can eat animals which is sustainable, so that our impact on the food chain is minimised. I know animals are intelligent to a degree, and feel pain etc, but nature is a pretty violent place, and animals are always killing each other. So I really don't see a problem in us farming sheep, cows, pigs, deer, fish, etc. What do you mean by animals having a future?

Also, yes I am all for cloning and stem cell research for medical reasons. I don't think it's really safe to be doing it for commercial resons though. Not sure what's it's got to do with vegetarianism though!

Cheers,
R
junodark
Raffles wrote:
junodark wrote:
Raffles wrote:
Cows and Sheep would die out if we didn';t eat them. Why else whould enyone look after them? They wouldn't survive in the wild.


Are you saying that it's somehow better to keep them around, let them survive as a species of food? I'm not saying it's wrong, but if you support keeping a species for a purpose other then to live, then you should also be supporting stem-cell research or cloning as a way to use human (albeit fetal form, or for our psychologists embryonic/fetal stages) as a source of medicine.

But anyway, I think you were posing a more moral standpoint, in which case I would ask you again what is moral about raising an animal with no chance of a future?


Hi Junodark

The only reson cows and sheep exist in their present form is through farming!

I would have said it is fine to breed them only for food. Farming is the way we can eat animals which is sustainable, so that our impact on the food chain is minimised. I know animals are intelligent to a degree, and feel pain etc, but nature is a pretty violent place, and animals are always killing each other. So I really don't see a problem in us farming sheep, cows, pigs, deer, fish, etc. What do you mean by animals having a future?

Also, yes I am all for cloning and stem cell research for medical reasons. I don't think it's really safe to be doing it for commercial resons though. Not sure what's it's got to do with vegetarianism though!

Cheers,
R


Right, thats my point. Would naturalization be the moral thing to do, even if it resulted in extinction? Or, out of fear of extinction, is it better to keep them alive for the slaughter?

It's the same moral arguement with stem-cell/cloning, thats why I threw that in.
bgillingham
I have to chime back in here because of the lack of relevance to some of what is being said.

The fact that cows and sheep exist is due to selective breeding of the indigenous species that were the early domestic animals. They have become very specialized creatures and they would not have the same survivability that the common or aboriginal creatures. They really don't serve a purpose other to suffer for the time before we EAT them.

If cows and sheep died out, would that extinction be bad somehow? We created them through selective breeding. It could not be better to keep these strains of domesticated animals alive for slaughter.

Stop the cruelity can be aided by not eating meat that comes from the industrial farms, but you can not disagree that being vegetarian is one giant step better than selective purchasing of meat.

My good friend raises many goats, ducks, chickens, etc. He is not cruel to them by any comparison to the industrial farms, but they ARE caged up. All things considerd, it doesn't look that humane to me. They exhibit some nervous tendencies. He tells of one goat that pees in his own face. There are some ducks that act schitzophrenic (sp?). A couple of his birds incessantly chirp (don't know what species - something like an oriental phesant).
rightclickscott
There is one soul reason why I am not a vegetarian, Charles Darwin is my homeboy.
skank
i've been a vegetarian for almost a year, and i'm so glad i made that choice. i hate when people say things like "i eat meat to survive" because honestly, it's the 21st century and there are so many animal substitutes that are even HEALTHIER than the actual meat. i've gotten so passionate about this type of stuff, really, and even the SIGHT of someone eating chicken or beef can make me want to throw up. i plan on becoming vegan eventually, too. Smile
junodark
rightclickscott wrote:
There is one soul reason why I am not a vegetarian, Charles Darwin is my homeboy.


That's a joke, right?

Because you know, one evolution is really hard to prove, two we're not set up like any carnivorous animal (And omnivores don't consume nearly as much meat as much most meat eaters would claim), and three back to nature doesn't make sense when it comes to eating anyway, nature doesn't necessarily have your best interests in mind.
junodark
skank wrote:
i've been a vegetarian for almost a year, and i'm so glad i made that choice. i hate when people say things like "i eat meat to survive" because honestly, it's the 21st century and there are so many animal substitutes that are even HEALTHIER than the actual meat. i've gotten so passionate about this type of stuff, really, and even the SIGHT of someone eating chicken or beef can make me want to throw up. i plan on becoming vegan eventually, too. Smile


if you're not vegan you're still eating plenty of animal product. your diet shouldn't make you righteous.
abhiworld
A couple of points:

1) Something that we have been doing for 1000 years doesn't justify us continuing to do it forever. We are so-called "intelligent" species, and should continue to adopt practices that we "think" to be right

2) Man began eating meat before he invented agriculture and started producing plants/vegetables/fruits. It was once a necessity, which is now only "optional". Not too long ago, nations attacked other nations, men killed millions of other "men" for their hunger for more land and power. But now there is a distinct recognition in the developed world for the human right to live, whether weak or strong. Animals feel pain as much as men do - is there any reason this right to "live" should not be extended to them?

3) I agree that no one should "impose" their thoughts or preferences on others...

As for me, I am a vegetarian - by choice. Smile
the_mariska
skank wrote:
i've been a vegetarian for almost a year, and i'm so glad i made that choice. i hate when people say things like "i eat meat to survive" because honestly, it's the 21st century and there are so many animal substitutes that are even HEALTHIER than the actual meat. i've gotten so passionate about this type of stuff, really, and even the SIGHT of someone eating chicken or beef can make me want to throw up. i plan on becoming vegan eventually, too. Smile

You're a newbie and that's why you're so enthusiastically fanatic about vegetarianism Very Happy But you have no reason to blame anyone beacuse he's not. It's your personal choice to be vege, but you should also let other people decide themselves what to eat. I've been a vegetarian for more than 4 years and I don't mind anyone eating meat at my sight (and so do most of my friends, my boyfriend and my whole family). Hope you'll chill too Wink

Quote:
3) I agree that no one should "impose" their thoughts or preferences on others...

As for me, I am a vegetarian - by choice.

I can't agree more Very Happy
kimrei
Quote:
If one of you vegetarians feels like reading the Bible, in the book of Genesis, God says that animals were put here to eat. Fight it all you want, but it is the way things were meant to be. *Eats a steak*


The words of Jesus Christ:

Quote:
"Thou shalt not kill, for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man take away. For I tell you truly, from one Mother proceeds all that lives upon the earth. Therefore, he who kills, kills his brother. And from him will the Earthly Mother turn away, and will pluck from him her quickening breasts. And he will be shunned by her angels, and Satan will have his dwelling in his body. And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his own tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and whoso eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats of the body of death. For in his blood every drop of their blood turns to poison; in his breath their breath to stink; in his flesh their flesh to boils; in his bones their bones to chalk; in his bowels their bowels to decay; in his eyes their eyes to scales; in his ears their ears to waxy issue. And their death will become his death."


from Book One The Essene Gospel of Peace (Found In Vatican Library 1930)

http://www.ivu.org/history/christian/christ_veg.html
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/was_jesus_a_vegetarian.htm

Razz
the_mariska
Quote:
If one of you vegetarians feels like reading the Bible, in the book of Genesis, God says that animals were put here to eat. Fight it all you want, but it is the way things were meant to be. *Eats a steak*

No way Smile Here's an exact quote from Genesis:

Quote:
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. (The Holy Bible, King James version)


Not a single word that animals are to eat Razz

Quote:

The words of Jesus Christ:
(...)
from Book One The Essene Gospel of Peace (Found In Vatican Library 1930)

http://www.ivu.org/history/christian/christ_veg.html
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/was_jesus_a_vegetarian.htm

I'm afraid that the person who wrote this (vege - propaghanda Razz) article knew nothing about the traditions of ancient Izrael. Eating lamb was an important part of the Passover celebration - the most significant of Jewish holidays. Jesus took a part in this too, even just before His death. In the Bible it is written that Jesus told that there's no need to kill animals on religious events in the church since His death (if you want I can search for the matching quote Wink ). Not a single word whether to eat or not to eat animals. I guess He came here for more significant reasons Wink

You really shouldn't believe everything that is written on the internet Smile
kimrei
I'm not sure about the exact words but somewhere in the bible it talks about Jesus feeling the pain of a lamb as it dies in his arms.

the bible was only compiled in it's present form in 300ad and was done so to be popular (during the roman empire's conversion to christianity), supposedly many books with controversial content were left out, I've heard of unincluded books written by Mary Magladyn, Jesus and his disciples which were left out.

If anyone has the chance they should apply for permission to see the Vatican library, it's an amazing place.
vinix
Is quite boring discuss an argument like this, basically because is more than proven that the meat was one of the biggets reasons ( in my opinion the big one ), that allowed the human brain to evolve untill it's current constitution. So, we can conclude that if we didn't start eating meat during our evolution, problably we were seatted in the middle of a jungle, eating the green!
Actually, if the meat weren't part of our meals since the begining of our history, we would not be able to tell it, neither do this forum! Is pretty fun, don't you think?
Gieter
It's stupid not to eat meat. Why do I think this? Humans are omnivores, not herbivores! Our digestion, nor or teeth are meant for eating just plants. You also get a lot of iron and other useful nutrients out of meat. There are bad nutrients also in meat, but if you eat meat well, that shouldn't be a problem.

If you cut yourself open and analyse your digestion, you're see you're made to eat meat. That may be not enough reason for you, but it is for me.
ExaminedLife
My opinion, for what it's worth: I eat a primarily, but not completely, vegetarian diet. I also am an animal rights advocate. While for health and moral reasons I am primarily vegetarian, I am not aggressively so. I would never try to impose my standards for myself on someone else, and cannot stand people who do so. I do see that the eating of meat has a natural place in the order of things. If people can be bear food, why can't cows be people food? My standards for myself: I eat primarily vegetables/grains/dairy, and try to make sure that any eggs or meat that I consume are organic and have been produced with a general respect for animal-kind.

But if I'm at the home of someone who's worked hard to fix a meal of non-organic hamburgers, for heaven's sake, I'm going to eat them and NOT demand something else!
riv_
Jack_Hammer wrote:
If you stop eating something for a long while (years) you body will not be able to cope easly with digesting it when you do eat it later. So if you eat veg. and meat, then you turn a veggie for a couple of years when you try to eat meat again you will be sick as your body is not used to it.


Hard theory to prove, but my own experience suggests that it's true.
My husband and I were both vegetarians when we were first married, but have started eating meat again, because it's hard to get the proper variety of produce where we live.
Neither of us can digest pork at all, and I have difficulty with beef. Both of us ate it regularly as children.
Now that we have a child of our own, I'm not sure what to feed him!
Our diet is heavy on fish, and we hope to raise chickens this year. We eat meatless dishes a few nights a week, but also have locally raised beef about once a week...
It's all well and good for us, but you really start to question things when it comes to your kids...
Sebaci
Lol, I don't know how people do it that they don't eat meat. Normal people eat meat, vegetables and fruits. Everybody should eat meat to have everything what organism needs.
dz9c
My girlfriend is a vegetarian, which kinda makes me a vegetarian too but I dont think its all that a bad lifestyle. Though it kinda sucks shes also lactose intolerant and has a number of food alergies.
watersoul
I've been veggie for 8 years now and lets face it, at the end of the day no-one knows what we should or should not do to survive - survive is the key issue and whats right for one person is not always right for another.
How could a tribal community in frozen climes survive without catching & eating the local wildlife, fish etc? They couldnt, without huge imports of food from more temperate agricultural countries.
There is no right or wrong in this one, we have teeth of omnivores ready to rip and tear flesh, albeit not as often as the daily diet of 3 small cows as it seems to be in the western world!
We each walk our own path, and I believe that it's acceptable for others to eat meat & fish if they at least spare a thought of thanks & respect to the animal that has died to give them nourishment.
Although I am a strict veggie, and expect to continue this path in my life, make no mistake about it, if I was hungry enough and could sustain myself no other way, I'd be among the first out there to catch & kill something to survive. (including my lovely pet cat if I really had to, I'm sure I've a big enough saucepan!)
Do what you think is right, with respect & thanks for life and all the many different views in the world - its not black or white, its gray all over.
ralphbefree
I was raised vegetarian for religious reasons. I did rebel during my teenage years and ate fairly unhealthy. In my 20's I ate vegetarian for the concerns of animal rights, but now in my 30's I base my eating habits on where the food comes from. It is true: "Food" is a drug that affects the body in many different ways according to what "food" you eat; and You are what You eat! Following these two trains of thought I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to eat anything that has been captive or caged. Cows that are raised in tight untidy pens, chickens that are raised in small cages (was your chicken sandwich the chicken that was in the bottom cage getting crapped on?) are not satisfactory food for MY BODY Smile
Eat Well, Be Well
eml298
I am vegetarian, and just as I do not force my views on others, I feel theirs should not be forced on me. I have read in this thread quotes like:


Quote:
Normal people eat meat



Quote:
It's stupid not to eat meat.


I hardly feel that this is representative of carnivores not forcing their views on me. I agree with other posters that we should all be free to eat as we choose. However, I read a few posts that indicated how some people believe animals are treated properly, and vegetarians are creating (false) propoganda to promote our beliefs. Anyone who believes this should check out PETA's website and watch the video clip "meet your meat".

That's all Smile
Jaime
The meat it's necesary for the organism and the health, so many vegetales its disgusting....
eml298
I guess no one watched that clip, eh? It definitely would have gotten some kind of reaction! Laughing
zamolxes
true, plants are alive too... but eating them is healthier than eating meat Neutral
also, cultivating grains for eating could increase humanity's chanches of survival. it's more efficient to eat cereal-based food than it is to eat animals, because, because that animal you're eating has consumed in its life a whole lot of cereal... and compare the mountain of cereal that animal eats with the very little meat, or milk, etc that you get from it. the more space we allocate for growing plants that feed animals that eventually will feed us... the less space we have for cultivating plants for ourselves to eat. potatoes and rice and corn etc have saved entire populations from starvation, in history, but growing animals for meat... well, it's the opposite. I like meat, but I have become a vegetarian because I read stuff about meat that made me change my diet... I do eat meat from time to time (like those spiders every night, ahahaha), but I base my diet on cereals (which means glucose, which is the battery of our organism). the difference between eating meat-based and cereal-based, as far as how fast are you going to get hungry again... is that meat has a longer digestion-time, and therefore it gives you the illusion of "being full" for a longer period of time. but cereals who have a faster digestion and overall transit, are healthier, because of many things, including this: faster transit. the faster food gets out, the less problems it causes.
so I eat cereals (grains, like corn, rice, oats, etc) potatoes (complete product), beens, soy, nuts, acorns, etc, vegetables and fruits. but I'm a fan of cheese.. so.... I can't stay away from that Very Happy
zamolxes
but for all those who think you need stuff from meat, and being vegetarian means you don't get all you need in your body, that's FALSE! not only you get iron and proteins and calcium from what I've stated above, but you get better iron and calcium and proteins, besides vitamines and, especially, mainly, most important!!! - glucose, from the aforementioned vegetarian products. greens are a far better source of calcium than milk (the calcium in milk gets eliminated for the most part), the best source of calcium I know is sesamy seeds, but you have to crush them before eating, orelse they get eliminated in no time and you don't any calcium out of them. same goes for all seeds, crush them!

last thing - cereal-based diet is used by athletes, you know, by the pros! and the burn a lot of energy baby, so they need energy. they need glucose, which is, again, cereals... also, we don't need that many proteins, and especially fat (which gets stored, while glucose doesn't). since I've started eating more cereal-based, man, I feel light as a feather and full of energy (could be my mind, of course, because if you're convinced something's good for you... but then, I don't really thik it's my mind only..)
Andrew426
Ragnarok wrote:
If everyone on the planet adhered to vegetarianism and used the cattle grazing land for crops instead, the food produced would be enough to feed the entire population and have room for growth.


The feed cows eat can not be compared to what we eat, its hard as rocks and very hard for us to digest.

All you moral vegans/vegeterians - read this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

Quote:
Davis proposes a ruminant-pasture model of food production, which would replace all poultry, pig and lamb production with beef and dairy products. According to his calculations, such a model would result in the deaths of 300 million fewer animals annually (counting both field animals and cattle) than would a total vegan model. This difference, according to Davis, is mainly the result of fewer field animals killed in pasture and forage production than in the growing and harvest of grain, beans, and corn.
thegamecreator
I love how i open this thread and i have a hamburger in my hand.... lol... but anywyas can we let this thread die
the fact of life is...

We need meat it has protiene in it...and even if your a veggy lover and hate meat...you still eat fish which is meat so no matter how you look at it you need meat
Sabrina
I USED to be a vegetarian. I ate only pulses, vegetables, rice...I wasn't like a vegan but I did try to be a good vegeterian. I don't really know what made me start eating meat foods again, I guess the vegetarianism fad just faded with me. My taste buds have grown sensitive, I can't have salty meat...
XSTG
if you want to be a vegetarian, be it and let them be what they want. Most of the vegetarians do that only because of the animal reason. Well I don't think it's a valuable reason. If you can't realize that that's how the life's done, there's a problem... also, I think you never saw nature. Would you be angry after an animal because it kills 92 animals in a year to eat?
kung_fu_stu
I respect the choice to be a vegetarian, but I do not follow it myself. We have teeth for chewing vegtables as well as grinding meat and I intend to get the full usage out of my teeth.
supposing
I'm teetering on the edge of becoming a vegan...

I think it's important for people who are aware of the happenings in our meat/animal product industry to educate people who may be unaware--but NOT with the underlying message that eating meat is wrong.

The issues surrounding the use of animals for meat and other animal products are fairly obvious, but I believe many people simply are not aware of the horrific treatment of those animals leading up to the harvesting of those products.

But there ARE alternatives beyond vegetarian/veganism.

There ARE surprising numbers of small farms which treat their animals kindly -- let them graze freely instead of keeping them penned up year round, let mother cows remain with their babies for a YEAR rather than days, etc.

In addition to tasting remarkably better, some of these products are much healthier. Grass-fed beef has a MUCH MUCH MUCH healthier ratio of omega 3s to omega 6s, and free-range eggs have been shown to have higher levels of omega 3s as well.

A note of caution! Many people who purchase organic milk and free-range meats assume that these products come from animals which are treated well. This is not necessarily true! The guidelines for free-range and organic are too vague to guarantee cruelty-free treatment.

Too lazy to dig up a bunch of good links, but here's one to get you started : http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php If you do some quick googling you'll quickly find more!

PLEASE do your homework. Recognize that when you purchase products, you are giving their manufacturers money-- you are condoning their methods. Make sure you know what these methods are! If you love eating meat and animal products and feel that it is essential to your health and well-being, I understand, but PLEASE buy from a farm that treats their animals well. It's one of the easiest, tastiest things you can do to end tremendous amounts of suffering. I hope that you can find a local farmer to support (thereby helping to reduce the environmental toll of transporting goods across the country, as well ^_^).
Ray Gravin
wow this is a thread I could spend hours posting in!

I will say first of that I am a vegan. Have been now for about 2 years. I became a Vegan for ethical reasons. The typical ones, animal cruelty and such. I also choose this life style for some more obscure reasons, like a feeling of detachment from the food chain.

I think that being human is strange. Were the only creature on the planet that can understand its existence as much as we do. We question the way things are and we have the ability to change things if we desire. At-least to a much larger extent then any other creature we know of. Despite all this potential we still get caught up in being very petty beings. At-least the majority of us do.

Animals don't need us to eat them. Yes were at the top of the chain but not in a way that our absence would cause any harm. We have the ability to survive without eating animals. At-least in our more developed countries. So the argument that its a necessity is moot. We as a species have the ability to do so much more with our selves, but we choose to de-vide ourselves and fight over resources and power.

If you live on a farm, and you raise and slaughter your own food. I can have respect for that. If you hunt, and eat what you kill. I can have respect for that. If you order your food through a speaker box and eat it wile your driving to work. I can't respect that.

Lets take a minute and look at how much more we could do for our fellow man if we shifted the resources we use to feed and raise cattle, and used that to feed the starving people in other parts of the world. We wast so much of the meat we produce. Grains can be kept and produced in abundance enough to share.

But like I said at the beginning... I could post here for hours.

When a man is ready to pursue a life of righteousness and virtue, he will understand the path we choose.
Karl
please.be.quiet wrote:
I just recently turned vegetarian and i think it's a great way to live. I'm not doing it for the weight/health factor but for the animal cruelty factor. Every vegetarian saves an average of 92 animals per year. Most people never even think about what they do to the animals. For chickens, they put 11 of them to a small cage and chop of they're beaks (which has the most nerve endings in their body) so that they don't kill each other. because of this, the chickens can starve to death because they can't eat food anymore. when male chicks are born in an egg factory, they usually throw them into high speed grinder alive. There is so much more out there that they do to these poor animals. Vegetarianism is really the way to go, you may say that it's normal to eat animals, it's the circle of life. but we really abuse that system nowadays. It's not normal anymore. I suggest that if you don't want to turn full vegetarian/vegen than you only eat free range/ organic meat. here are a couple quotes from albert einstein himself on vegetarianism: "Vegetarian food leaves a deep impression on our nature. If the whole
world adopts vegetarianism, it can change the destiny of humankind." and "If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."


You should be a little bit aware that most Einstein quotes on the internet is not Einstein but some peoples idea of a joke.
roadruner
living only on vegetables sucks Razz
show them one episode of south park when they didn't eat meat ;> then they'll see what happens Wink
in any case, it's a natural thing to eat meat, if you don't you're just weird Razz
arclight
Vegetarianism is the way to go. Every living being has a right to live. My motto: Live and Let Live.
Yantaal
Quote:
I suggest that if you don't want to turn full vegetarian/vegen than you only eat free range/ organic meat.



as kind hearted as that may seem, going organic may not always be the way.

free range in some cases might just mean that the domiant chickens get to go out side, but the laying hens still have to sit in there little cages with broken legs.


organic, might just mean that when a cow get sick they dont give it medicine sot hat it remains natural and untmperd with,. organic, so cows can remain sick and untreated in the same place as the other healthy cows, this might even result in them being kill.led if they are not well enough for it to make the slaughter house with the rest of the cows.


i am vegan by the way,
Vanilla
Marston wrote:
How can you guys not eat meat? Meat is amazing.

Besides, animals don't have souls anyways. They don't go to heaven or anything... Damnit! For every animal you guys don't eat, I'll eat three!


Meeeeaaaat....


Ditto. Laughing Maddox is right, and if you don't agree with him, you are wrong. I'm studying to be a veterinary, and people love to talk how great is don't kill animals to eat. Well, sun -> vegetables -> animals -> humans. I love meat and I won't stop to eat meat so soon. Unless I'm death, I will still enjoy a good barbecue.
Rico
I admire people that do not eat meat because they’re concerned about the welfare of other living things. The Vegetarians I know are just people who don’t like anything to be killed so they could have a meal. I once had them over and cooked them a vegetarian meal, but I thought I was going to get them to eat some meat by making a rally nice chicken. I felt like a serious twit when they explained that the smell of meat makes them salivate and they would love to have some but it just goes against their principals. Now I feel really bad because I don’t like the idea of animals suffering so I can eat either, but it just smells and tastes so good. I get withdrawal if I don’t have meat on a regular basis. Wrenched. I feel the worst for chickens because they’re really tortured, and pigs, they’re more intelligent than dogs (and some people). Some of them never get to see the sky. Wrenched, wrenched, wrenched. Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
da'nortporn
Don't ya all just LOVE beef? and lovely fish and hamburgers ... mmmmmmmm...



Seriously...


why are peapole vegetarians... If they don't want to harm animals or are grosed about eating something that used to live still its just how nature works... You know the beef used to eat smaller animals the fishes eats smaller fishes and animals the hamburgers used to eat small chicken-nuggets.
[FuN]goku
no offense guys but.. vegetarionism is kind of stupid.... i mean... you think animals are alive but.... well so are plants and ur eating them.... /slap Razz
Yantaal
[FuN]goku wrote:
no offense guys but.. vegetarionism is kind of stupid.... i mean... you think animals are alive but.... well so are plants and ur eating them.... /slap Razz


nice one dick, thats about the millionth time i heard that one. smooth
David_Pardy
I haven't read the whole thread but I'm going to put my 2c in anyway.

To have a balanced diet, you need protein and iron. Iron supplements are dangerous because you can easily overdose on iron (and too much iron is a bad thing). Unless you eat waaay too much meat every day, you're not going to overdose on iron. Eating a good portion of meat with your meal will provide you with nutrients that you cannot get on a meat-free diet.

Of course, to be at your peak of health it's best to eat as little processed foods as possible - and 'organic' (grown the way they should be - without GM or pesticides) foods + unprocessed meats are the way to go.

I myself love the taste of steak, mince, chicken, fish, etc. Especially chicken. Now I feel like chicken... Dammit, I'm trying to save money!!! Sad
Yazz
I'm no fan of animal cruelty, but if that's how they do it, either make them change it, or shut up. We need meat. We seriously do. Our bodies are specially designed to eat veggies, fruits and MEAT. We're MADE that way. To go against it is pretty much like saying "Hey God, yeah, thanks for the canine teeth and enzymes, but I think I'll stick to leaves. Thanks anyways though, sorry if it's a waste of our natural gifts!"

Lol, sorry, I just had to throw a God argument in there. I don't even believe in God.

ANYWAYS, Meat is good. Veggies are good. Together, it's perfect. And by the way, if every vegetarian is saving 92 animals a year (which they aren't, that's stupid logic. You're not buying those 92 animals, but that doesn't mean that they aren't dying anyways and then being thrown away after spoiling cause YOU didn't want to eat them) then combined you'd end up saving so many animals that we wouldn't know what the hell to do with them. They'd all be wasted, or stuffed into even tighter and crueller conditions. Not to mention the resources they consume. If you want animals to be treated humanely before they die, the forget any mechanized production. You can all go live in the Amish country and kill your own damn cow, cause no corporation is going to pay to make an animal's short lifespan end peacefully. Remember that IKEA commercial with the old lamp being thrown away? They threw the lamp out into the rain and replaced it with a new one, sad music was playing, they showed the lamp facing the house in the rain, watching the woman turn on the new lamp and give it a warm pat. It's practically the same thing.

"You probably are feeling sad for this lamp, but that because you crazy. It has no feeling, besides, the new one is much better."

But vegetarians are fine in my books. Just slightly illogical <.<
meet in rio
I'm not a vegetarian, but I rarely eat meat simply because a) nice, free-range stuff is expensive and b) I'm worried about finding 'grissly bits' in my sausages! I'm so picky about anything that's not pure, lean meat that it's a bit wasteful of me to buy the stuff as I dissect it to a ridiculous extent. Besides which, I think quorn is absolutely delicious, healthy and has a very consistent flavour.

I don't buy factory-farmed stuff as it is: if I can't afford free-range meat then I just can't afford meat period.

From a world ecological point of view (and in my very limited GCSE understanding of biology), animals aren't the best source of nutrition. There's a better input/output energy ratio for growing a carrot than feeding a cow because there are fewer stages in the 'food chain' and carrots don't move/respire/waste energy in the same way as cattle. I'm not sure if I explained that perfectly--I will admit to being the slightest bit tipsy right now-- but I hope people can understand what I'm grasping at.

At the end of the day, though, I do enjoy a bacon sandwich!
Yantaal
my point again free range stuff, bad for the animals, ass they dont recieve medical attention if ill.

what canine teeth? the two next to the sharpp ones fro ripping into fruit?

and three times iron man champion was a vegetarian, was he at the peak of his health, he didnt eat meat.... try teling him that to be healthy you need meat. yeah suck it
Yantaal
i put this at the end of the vegetarian post, but want people to be clear on this.

to be healthy you dont need meat.

a small list of extremly healthy vegetarians:

Ridgely Abele
Karate national champion

BJ Armstrong
US Basketball star

Surya Bonaly – vegan
Olympic figure skating champion

Peter Burwash
Davis cup winner

Andreas Cahling
Body-building champion


Chris Campbell
Olympic wrestling champion


Nicky Cole
First woman to walk the North Pole


Di Edwards
Runner, Olympic semifinalist

Clare Francis
Sailor

Ruth Heidrich
6-time Ironwoman


Sally Hibberd
British women’s mountain bike champion.

Keith Holmes
World-champion middleweight boxer

Desmond Howard
Professional football star

Peter Hussing
European super heavyweight boxing champion

Kathy Johnson
Olympic gymnast

Debbie Lawrence
Women’s 5K racewalk – world record holder.

Judy Leden
British, European and World women’s hanggliding champion.

Sixto Linares
24-hour triathlon world record holder

Carl Lewis – vegan
Winner of 6 Olympic Gold medals

Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray
Cross-country tandem cycling – world record holders

Ingra Manecki
Discus thrower – world champion

Bill Manetti
Power-lifting champion

Ben Matthews
US Master’s marathon champion

Robert Millar
Cyclist

Dan Millman
World champion gymnast

Ed Moses
Olympic Gold medalist twice at 400m hurdles.

Martina Navratilova
Legendary tennis champion with 166 titles, 9 times Wimbledon champion.

Paavo Nurmi
Long-distance runner, winner of 9 Olympic medals and 20 world records

Bill Pearl
Four times winner – Mr. Universe

Bill Pickering
World record-holding swimmer

Stan Price
World weightlifting record holder

Murray Rose
Swimmer – winner of many Olympic gold medals and world records

Dave Scott – vegetarian
6 times winner of the Ironman Triathlon of America.


Judith Oakley – vegan
Cross Country Runner and 3 times Welsh Mountain Bike and Cyclocross
Champion.

Emmil Watson
Gladiators winner for England

Jane Welzel
US National marathon champion

Charlene Wong Williams
Olympic champion figure skater



just try telling them that being healthy needs meat.
X3 Talk
It is such a broad topic. There a heaps of arguments for and against but as I am still consuming meat, I'll go for.

If we choose not to consume meat, we will throw out the food chain which isn't good for ecology. We are designed to eat meat. The biggest issues are: Battery Farming (cruelty), eating cheap processed meats (now with 80% real meat!) and pricing.

I still love the taste of meat though, just the other day I was eating some divine rotissary style beef. Very nice.

I think, make your own choice about the issue, it is really hard to go either way. We still need meat though. What about veganism? No animal products? You can have a diet of tofu and soy milk. Is that good calcium wise? I am not a pediatrician but, you just wonder, is it a good subsitute?
raaeft1
My friend, who is fond of non-veg food like me, has suddenly turned vegetarian out of religious and sentimental reasons.
He says he feels better having left non-veg food. Initially, he said he was leaving eating non-veg for a short period but now he asserts that he will be turning veg for life.
But, I personally feel that one must eat balanced food---both veg and non-veg.
Yantaal
well i am a vegan. its really fine: i have rice milk for calcium and cheezly( a chese substitute Wink ) for calcium, i get my iron from my vegetables.

its not un healthy, and really you dont need meat
tonerj
seriously, the meat substitutes taste just like meat to me, but then again, i'm not absolutely in love with meat. i'd much rather eat something else. i eat mostly vegan, but don't consider myself vegan because i believe truly being vegan is avoiding all animal products all together, and vegan clothes are very expensive
Yantaal
unfortunatley, vegan lifestyle is expensive.

it costs me like twice as much shopping wise as it used to. but i feel much better,and the only think i really miss is guiness.

i just hate the way i have to literally read every single food label, because even salt and vinegar pringles(the only non vegan flavor, yes thats right, even the meat styl;e are vegan) have milk in them, do you need the mikl in a pringle!?
a.Bird
Aaiiiieeeaaahh, animal cruelty is so wrong! Of course, it's not like a lion will suffocate a gazelle by breaking it's neck and biting into its throat, or a piranha will shred another fish apart with its razor sharp teeth.

Stick a cut finger in a piranha tank or walk limp in front of a hungry lioness and tell me if animal cruelty is seriously a problem.
Ray Gravin
Quote:
unfortunatley, vegan lifestyle is expensive.

it costs me like twice as much shopping wise as it used to. but i feel much better,and the only think i really miss is guiness.

i just hate the way i have to literally read every single food label, because even salt and vinegar pringles(the only non vegan flavor, yes thats right, even the meat styl;e are vegan) have milk in them, do you need the mikl in a pringle!?


I do relativly well as a vegan shopping expense wise. Well atleast when I don't go to the fancy store and buy vegan safe comfort foods : ) I would say thats were the prices become an issue for vegans.

I can feel ya on the lable reading struggle. Hell you even have to keep checking the items you know are safe becouse general products change there recipies sometimes. I just keep my diet simple if possible.
Keran
I'll try to express my opinion about Vegetarians and try as hard as possible not to hurt their feelings:
I think Vegeterianism is uber stupid. Not eating meat (i think) won't give you enough strength to be fully functionall. I guess it's ok if you are a weakling that doesn't do any sport etc.
But for a sportsman turning into a vegeterian is like turning off Electric Power for your house and trying to live in it. It is possible, but it's extremely hard and unconfortable.
I guess im kinda stereotypic and some people will say that eating weed will give u the same ammount of energy like eating tasty meat... But oh well, go eat your weed.
Ray Gravin
"Yantaal" you are officially my favorite fellow Frihoster!

Aside from vegetarianism being looked down on as being unhealthy (which is inaccurate in most cases) I think its also seen as being a stance taken by "weaker" individuals (again completely untrue)

Im not going to say that there are not people who follow vegetarian diets who are not the model of good health. I will say that percentage wise there is more then likely a smaller number of unhealthy vegetarians then common american diet followers. Eating meat does not equal good health by any means. Fairly enough not eating meat does not equal good health either. Unhealthy eating habits can be found on both sides of that coin.

As far as Vegetarians being "weak" I would say its just the opposite. For the most part we are a group of people taking a stand against what we have come to perceive as "evil". Our Ideas on what and why in that concern vary but all the same we display the strength to stand up and do what we can to fight. Most people if educated about the economical and ecological damage we are doing by supporting factory farming practices have 2 reactions: Hopeless indifference or Hope-full action. I find it more difficult to live in hope, but I believe it to be the path of the stronger man.
coolclay
Vegetarianism is a joke. I am 100% against factory farming as well. I haven't bought any meat for several years. But I still eat meat almost everyday. Being against factory farming, and the way animals are treated, has nothing to do with being a vegetarian.
myrevolt
I've been a vegetarian for a little over 4 years now though I wouldn't consider my eating habits healthy...
Ray Gravin
Quote:
Vegetarianism is a joke. I am 100% against factory farming as well. I haven't bought any meat for several years. But I still eat meat almost everyday. Being against factory farming, and the way animals are treated, has nothing to do with being a vegetarian.


For the average consumer there are not that many alternatives to buying factory farmed meats and dairy. There are "organic" labels and other such labels that promise a more humane form of production but they are not always trustworthy. In a society like ours, outside of being a farmer or a hunter, there are really no other alternatives then to abstain from the cruel act of eating factory farmed meats and dairy. High demand and competition makes it ever more difficult for suppliers to change there farming practices.

I only used that as an example of course. It might not be the most universal reason that one would convert to being a vegetarian. In fact it more then likely is only one reason among many.

I also think that ethically, if given an alternative to taking life to sustain oneself, avoiding meat is the higher road. Ethics is a harder argument to make to most people. Outside of religious beliefs based on fear or spiritual rewards most people do not follow there moral instincts.
windrei
it's interesting to know that there are si many famous sports players who are vegetarians. i think you are vegetarian too, right ? may i ask a question ? which is in my mind for long time.

Is egg and dairy products, like milk, counted as vegetarian food ? and how about those strong taste vegetables like garlic, ginger etc.. ?

thank you~
Yantaal
vegetarians dont eat meat, and this is all.

some "vegetarians" eat fish, wish basically means they arnt vegetarians.

vegans dont eat or wear animal products.
Yantaal
OMFG< HAVE YOU NOT READ THE POSTS< FREAKING 6 TIME IRON MAN, VEGETARIAN, THE HARDEST CHALLENGE THERE IS. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TOP PROVE BEING VEGE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A PUSSY
Yantaal
Just another possible branch of the vege argument are the environmental issues:

2/3 of the rainforest have been destroyed to make way for cows to raise, kill and eat.

raising animals for food, consumes 15 times more water then a vegetarian diet.

a 7,000 square mile "dead zone" in mexico can no longer support aquatic life because of to much nitrogen from animal shit and crop fertiliser.

icant remeber the rest of the stats offhand, but seriously, we gonna finish the world off, and soon you will have to be vege. Or you can be vege and live in a half decent world
mathiaus
Lets keep all vegetarian topics together please. -merged-
Also, please refrain from posting entirely in capitals!
nilsmo
You can be healthy as a vegeterian.

You can be healthy as a non-vegetarian.

However, it is easier to be healthy as a meat-eater because then there's less of a chance you won't get enough of proteins, fat and such.
mceejaydee
Congrats. My friend's a vegetarian and is trying to be vegan. He said it was hard. You try being vegan Very Happy
a.Bird
Quote:
Kyraxe
I like having vegetarians around, means theres an extra helping of tasty meat for me!

In all seriousness though I think its a choice people make, and as such it should be respected by both sides. Don't hate me for eating Meat and I won't hate you for not eating meat. It's the people who preach about it and try and force you to their side I really can't stand.
angelboy1104
that's good because can protect animal!
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