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"liberal" and "conservative"





TRANScend
Just a quick question. Since when did we begin to think that it was logical or rational in any way to completely dismiss something simply because it was either "liberal" or "conservative"? What do those terms even mean anyways? It seems to me that all over, especially here on these forums, everything a person says must be clarified with a quasi-politcal indentity of liberal or conservative, and then those who do not identify similarly haphazardly address the real issues and quickly fall into stereotypes about liberalism and conservatism.
"Oh, that's just stupid because it comes from a Christian conservative news souce..."
"You silly liberals, you're all living in la-la land"
I'm so sick of it, and I think we all use it (that includes me) to avoid extensively and articulately debating a point. Sure, a few sentences of generalizations take less time, but we never actually change one another's mind. Why even bother to post? So you can yet your "stupid republicans" or "stupid liberals" ya-ya's for the day? Am I the only one that feels this way? I'm really missing the hard-core debate-class discussions that I love so much, and I'd love to see some more specificity. Often, I don't post on a discussion that could be interesting just because it has degraded into a liberal/conservative pissing contest.
I'd also like to take this time to refuse to identify myself. Am I liberal? Am I conservative? Who knows. You might actually have to talk with me for a while in order to understand the complexity of my political beliefs. I hope that's not too much to ask.
S3nd K3ys
TRANScend wrote:
Just a quick question. Since when did we begin to think that it was logical or rational in any way to completely dismiss something simply because it was either "liberal" or "conservative"? What do those terms even mean anyways? It seems to me that all over, especially here on these forums, everything a person says must be clarified with a quasi-politcal indentity of liberal or conservative, and then those who do not identify similarly haphazardly address the real issues and quickly fall into stereotypes about liberalism and conservatism.
"Oh, that's just stupid because it comes from a Christian conservative news souce..."
"You silly liberals, you're all living in la-la land"
I'm so sick of it, and I think we all use it (that includes me) to avoid extensively and articulately debating a point. Sure, a few sentences of generalizations take less time, but we never actually change one another's mind. Why even bother to post? So you can yet your "stupid republicans" or "stupid liberals" ya-ya's for the day? Am I the only one that feels this way? I'm really missing the hard-core debate-class discussions that I love so much, and I'd love to see some more specificity. Often, I don't post on a discussion that could be interesting just because it has degraded into a liberal/conservative pissing contest.
I'd also like to take this time to refuse to identify myself. Am I liberal? Am I conservative? Who knows. You might actually have to talk with me for a while in order to understand the complexity of my political beliefs. I hope that's not too much to ask.


I feel you. I base on LIEberals all the time. But the fact is, I have many "lieberal" tendancies and many 'conservative' tendancies. (I don't usually show my lieberal side here, but I'm a convert from left to right so it shows anyway.)

I believe in small government.

I beleive abortion should be a means of health/safety and not a form of birth control.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level government disfunctionary with a bad comb-over handing it out to crack adicts squirting out babies. (George Carlin?)

I believe if you want to come to the US, do it LEGALLY, or else STFU and STFO.

I beleive God should NOT be removed from the public sector or schools or Government facilities, as this country was founded on the belief of God. (I am not religious, but that's beside the point)

I believe what we're doing in the world to combat terrorism and the spread of radical islam is a just and noble cause that not many other's have the sack to do.

I beleive that, for the most part, people should be left to do what they want, be responsible for themselves, and be responsible for their actions if they affect somebody else.

I believe in free speech, the right to arm bears, (err, bear arms), and all that other happy crappy.
a.Bird
S3nd K3ys wrote:
I believe what we're doing in the world to combat terrorism and the spread of radical islam is a just and noble cause that not many other's have the sack to do.

I beleive that, for the most part, people should be left to do what they want, be responsible for themselves, and be responsible for their actions if they affect somebody else.


I believe that bringing our economy into a horrific deficit is something that the President and his cabinet should be held responsible for. I'm pretty sure COUNTLESS deaths overseas is something that the Bush administration should be held responsible for. How is it JUST, or even noble to any degree, to take action that results in so much bloodshed for such an ambiguous objective as terrorism. Forget what happened in the past that is gone and can't be changed; forget what COULD happen in the future against our national defenses if we push our imagination as far as possible. Think about right NOW... who are currently the true terrorists in other countries, murdering the citizens of those countries, and forcefully assimilating others towards our beliefs. All the while, we sit back at home fat and pretty, FEARing terrorism. Why do you think we are so hated? Why do you think we think we need to worry about terrorists? Perhaps because of this? WE ARE BEING CONDITIONED ON A MASS SCALE.
gonzo
TRANScend wrote:
completely dismiss something simply because it was either "liberal" or "conservative"?


There is no value in falsity.



Quote:
What do those terms even mean anyways?


I don't use the word "liberal" when refering to defective polical ideologies. You'll notice I always use "liberalist".

Quote:
everything a person says must be clarified


Only when not initially clearly written.


Quote:
Am I liberal? Am I conservative? Who knows. You might actually have to talk with me for a while in order to understand the complexity of my political beliefs.


If your position has no solid foundation its understandable why you'd be unable to either delinate it or abide by it.


a.Bird wrote:
How is it JUST, or even noble to any degree, to [defend liberty or dignity even when] that results in so much bloodshed


Evil prevails when good men fail to act


Quote:
Forget what happened in the past that is gone and can't be changed


oh that's a most enjoyable assertion. I really get nearly giddy when someone gushes on like that. Come over here so I can bludgeon you near to death with this rock. ah ah ah.. no, I don't want to hear any complaints from your bleeding face. That violence done to you was IN THE PAST. oh no. could there be a teeny tiny problem with your ideology? No? OK, more pain for you! step right up.

You let me know when you think there might be a problem with your position..

Cool
S3nd K3ys
gonzo wrote:


Quote:
Forget what happened in the past that is gone and can't be changed


oh that's a most enjoyable assertion. I really get nearly giddy when someone gushes on like that. Come over here so I can bludgeon you near to death with this rock. ah ah ah.. no, I don't want to hear any complaints from your bleeding face. That violence done to you was IN THE PAST. oh no. could there be a teeny tiny problem with your ideology? No? OK, more pain for you! step right up.

You let me know when you think there might be a problem with your position..

Cool





a.bird, I think you need to do some research on the history and reasoning behind radical islam before you make judgements based on uninformed opinion.
TRANScend
gonzo wrote:

If your position has no solid foundation its understandable why you'd be unable to either delinate it or abide by it.


That is such a ridiculous response! Of course I have a solid foundation to my political philosophy, and I find it quite simple to abide my it because I have spent so much time forming it for myself rather than simply accepting a standard ideology of "liberal" or "conservative". By that, I meant that my political philosophy is much more complex than either of those two boxes, and so a discussion about the solid foundation behind my beliefs might be necissary in order for you to understand them. Just because I don't accept the few foundations that you understand doesn't mean I don't have any foundation of my own, and I really hoped for a more thoughtful and intelligent response to my post.
violento
Just a quick question. Since when did we begin to think that it was logical or rational in any way to completely dismiss something simply because it was either "liberal" or "conservative"? What do those terms even mean anyways? It seems to me that all over, especially here on these forums, everything a person says must be clarified with a quasi-politcal indentity of liberal or conservative, and then those who do not identify similarly haphazardly address the real issues and quickly fall into stereotypes about liberalism and conservatism.
"Oh, that's just stupid because it comes from a Christian conservative news souce..."
"You silly liberals, you're all living in la-la land"
I'm so sick of it, and I think we all use it (that includes me) to avoid extensively and articulately debating a point. Sure, a few sentences of generalizations take less time, but we never actually change one another's mind. Why even bother to post? So you can yet your "stupid republicans" or "stupid liberals" ya-ya's for the day? Am I the only one that feels this way? I'm really missing the hard-core debate-class discussions that I love so much, and I'd love to see some more specificity. Often, I don't post on a discussion that could be interesting just because it has degraded into a liberal/conservative pissing contest.
I'd also like to take this time to refuse to identify myself. Am I liberal? Am I conservative? Who knows. You might actually have to talk with me for a while in order to understand the complexity of my political beliefs. I hope that's not too much to ask.........................

jajajajjajajajajajjajajajajajajajajjaja......opinion poitics of somebody that no know any think
S3nd K3ys
violento wrote:
...but we never actually change one another's mind.


Not true. There's been at least a couple times I've changed my opinion after reading a wacked-out, moon-bat, kool-aid drinking lieberal's post. (I think I even admitted it openly here Shocked )

Quote:
Why even bother to post? So you can yet your "stupid republicans" or "stupid liberals" ya-ya's for the day?


I'm not sure it's stupid, probably more like stubborn, but Yup.
a.Bird
S3nd K3ys wrote:
gonzo wrote:


Quote:
Forget what happened in the past that is gone and can't be changed


oh that's a most enjoyable assertion. I really get nearly giddy when someone gushes on like that. Come over here so I can bludgeon you near to death with this rock. ah ah ah.. no, I don't want to hear any complaints from your bleeding face. That violence done to you was IN THE PAST. oh no. could there be a teeny tiny problem with your ideology? No? OK, more pain for you! step right up.

You let me know when you think there might be a problem with your position..

Cool





a.bird, I think you need to do some research on the history and reasoning behind radical islam before you make judgements based on uninformed opinion.


I suppose it's much easier alienate another carbon unit because of a lack of understanding on his part than it is to throw a few healthy facts his way. Hell, it'd be a shame to enlighten him enough to be able to make more informed opinions so he's not another clueless American, we need more clueless Americans. ******, we need to alienate all the clueless Americans so we have people to make tasteful comments for on an internet forum. I hope you are enjoying the sweet taste of POWER on your end of this apparent hierarchy of intelligence that you are so humorously hoarding. Brick wall
Kyle
right now where i live(canada) there is a lenghy election going on, and it is brutal, there attacking eatchother contantly in the ads, i think this is one of the worst elections i have ever seen, and since the liberal party is being accused of being corupt, its a very lenghty battle, and im interested to see who comes out the winner
TRANScend
S3nd K3ys wrote:
violento wrote:
...but we never actually change one another's mind.


Not true. There's been at least a couple times I've changed my opinion after reading a wacked-out, moon-bat, kool-aid drinking lieberal's post. (I think I even admitted it openly here Shocked )

Quote:
Why even bother to post? So you can yet your "stupid republicans" or "stupid liberals" ya-ya's for the day?


I'm not sure it's stupid, probably more like stubborn, but Yup.


I must say, that was a refreshingly honest post. Thanks for some actual answers.

a.Bird wrote:
I suppose it's much easier alienate another carbon unit because of a lack of understanding on his part than it is to throw a few healthy facts his way. Hell, it'd be a shame to enlighten him enough to be able to make more informed opinions so he's not another clueless American, we need more clueless Americans. ****, we need to alienate all the clueless Americans so we have people to make tasteful comments for on an internet forum. I hope you are enjoying the sweet taste of POWER on your end of this apparent hierarchy of intelligence that you are so humorously hoarding.


Man, you rock my socks off.
dzo
Conservative: Believes policies should be based on the good of the individual. For example people that say things like "I want my money in my account not in some crack addicts pocket".

Liberal: Believes policies should be based on general well being of a community or the world. For example a Liberal would point out that more people have been killed by the Bush family than the Saddam Hussein regime and that the conservatives are simply baised to call Saddam a criminal.

In conclusion, everyone wants whats good for themselves at the end of the day. However Liberals take a longer term view.

For example the conservative that keeps his money in his wallet and doesnt give it to the crack addict will probably end up in a world where one day a crack addict will stab him for his money to get a fix. So sure our conservative friend will have saved money but he wont be able to take it with him.

The Liberal on the other hand would pay for the treatment of suh people and in the short time may not have his money but in the long term will live in a better world.

Another example is the war in Iraq. In the short term it may make some people feel secure to go blowing up another country, but thats exactly the kind of behaviour that created the Al Quieda anyway. In the long term expect more "9/11 senarios" based simply on the fact that "Americans killed our relatives in Iraq"

Sort term quick fixes = Conservative
Long term investment in a better world = Liberal

In this respect this fight will always continue.
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