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Illegals threaten closure of emergency rooms





S3nd K3ys
Quote:
Tuesday, January 3, 2006

INVASION USA
Illegals threaten closure of emergency rooms
Florida hospitals face crisis of treating uninsured patients

Posted: January 3, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Hospital emergency rooms in Florida may soon be closing their doors as a result of increased demands by uninsured and under-insured patients many of them illegal aliens.

According to a new study by University of South Florida researchers, much of the demand on hospitals comes from new residents of the state. More than half of all emergency room patients in some Florida hospitals do not have insurance.

Doctors who treat uninsured patients are not compensated for their treatment.

As a result, hospitals in Florida have lost surgeons and stand to lose entire surgical departments. Some hospitals are having a hard time getting physicians to work because they are choosing to work in other areas where they will be fully compensated for the treatment they give.



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48161

Hooray for socialism! The system wherein by promising everything to everyone we leave ourselves nothing for no one.

eday2010
That is the essence of Socialism; lower everyone to the lowest common denominator. Everything for everyone always turns out to be nothing for no one.
Scaramanga
eday2010 wrote:
That is the essence of Socialism; lower everyone to the lowest common denominator. Everything for everyone always turns out to be nothing for no one.

Socialism isn't about EVERYTHING for everyone. Although yes, let's lower EVERYONE to the lowest common denominator, because really, do we need one more overpaid actor/sports star/politcian/CEO??

Also, I hear it's totally COOL to let people who don't have health insurance DIE! Rolling Eyes

Oh and S3nd K3ys, maybe, just maybe, one day you'll stop posting "news" from conservative/religious-right media outlets.
Bondings
So if a homeless person without insurance comes to a hospital, you should let him die in front of it? I love pure capitalism.
S3nd K3ys
Bondings wrote:
So if a homeless person without insurance comes to a hospital, you should let him die in front of it? I love pure capitalism.


Ignorance is bliss. Or perhaps you're just trying to change the subject to something more extreme to try to justify your skewed perception of reality and your lack of knowledge of the situation.

Millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS are using the Emergency Health Care System in the US as their substitute for Medic-Aid or daily doctor's visits. It's FORCING THE CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS becasue they are giving away free EMERGENCY services for NON THREATENING illnesses.

So what ****ing good will that closed hospital do for the homeless guy with no insurance?

Unbelievable.

Quote:
Oh and S3nd K3ys, maybe, just maybe, one day you'll stop posting "news" from conservative/religious-right media outlets.


Denial of the facts and/or their sources will not make this go away.

Do do a search regarding the consequences/cost of illegal immigration before you try to dismiss it. Hell, do a search HERE for posts by ME about the subject. Rolling Eyes
Bondings
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Bondings wrote:
So if a homeless person without insurance comes to a hospital, you should let him die in front of it? I love pure capitalism.


Ignorance is bliss. Or perhaps you're just trying to change the subject to something more extreme to try to justify your skewed perception of reality and your lack of knowledge of the situation.

Millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS are using the Emergency Health Care System in the US as their substitute for Medic-Aid or daily doctor's visits. It's FORCING THE CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS becasue they are giving away free EMERGENCY services for NON THREATENING illnesses.

So what ****ing good will that closed hospital do for the homeless guy with no insurance?

Unbelievable.

First of all, where did you get the 'millions'? There are millions of people without insurance (the biggest part of them aren't aliens), but only a small part of them use the emergency services and only a part of those use it for non-threatening illnesses. And only a small part of those live in Florida.

Completely non-threatening illnesses shouldn't be accepted to the emergency services at all - wether they have an insurance or not.

And believe me, those hospitals won't be closed, the story comes from WorldNetDaily. Wink
iridios
Bondings wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Bondings wrote:
So if a homeless person without insurance comes to a hospital, you should let him die in front of it? I love pure capitalism.


...

Millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS are using the Emergency Health Care System in the US as their substitute for Medic-Aid or daily doctor's visits. It's FORCING THE CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS becasue they are giving away free EMERGENCY services for NON THREATENING illnesses.


First of all, where did you get the 'millions'? There are millions of people without insurance (the biggest part of them aren't aliens), but only a small part of them use the emergency services and only a part of those use it for non-threatening illnesses. And only a small part of those live in Florida.

Completely non-threatening illnesses shouldn't be accepted to the emergency services at all - wether they have an insurance or not.

And believe me, those hospitals won't be closed, the story comes from WorldNetDaily. Wink


Did you read the article, or just dismiss it out of hand because it comes from a conservative source?

The article says that the common estimate of uninsured is 43 million of which 25 to 50 percent are likely to be illegal aliens.

The article also says that, "84 hospitals in California have been forced to close because of the high cost of treating illegal aliens with only 50 percent of all treatments reimbursed by government."

I (and s3nd k3ys) know that these numbers aren't hard figures. But it's difficult to get accurate figures when communities are discouraged from discovering and counting how many "residents" are illegal aliens (too much like racial profiling)!

This is not something that's been worried about in the past, it's now becoming a growing concern. I have seen hospitals close because they weren't making enough money. One I worked at in the past nearly did.

Quote:
Completely non-threatening illnesses shouldn't be accepted to the emergency services at all - wether they have an insurance or not.


You, I, and s3nd k3ys all agree on this. But who decides that an illness in completely non-threatening and can be turned away?
S3nd K3ys
Bondings wrote:

First of all, where did you get the 'millions'? There are millions of people without insurance (the biggest part of them aren't aliens), but only a small part of them use the emergency services and only a part of those use it for non-threatening illnesses. And only a small part of those live in Florida.


Center for Immigration Studies wrote:
In just the last four years immigration has increased the size of the uninsured population by 2.7 million people.


Just so you don't try to skew these numbers, I bolded the part that says 'increased the size by', so you wouldn't confuse it with the total number of uninsured.

Bondings wrote:

Completely non-threatening illnesses shouldn't be accepted to the emergency services at all - wether they have an insurance or not.


iridios wrote:


You, I, and s3nd k3ys all agree on this. But who decides that an illness in completely non-threatening and can be turned away?


I agree. Unfortunately, hospitals are not allowed to turn them down, NO MATTER WHAT ILLNESS THEY HAVE!. And they generally go to the emergency room instead of a doctor's office or regular office visit because they know they'll be turned down. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA), obligates hospitals to treat the uninsured but does not pay for that care.

http://www.emtala.com/

Quote:
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) requires every ED to treat anyone who enters with an 'emergency' - including cough, headache, hangnail, cardiac arrest, herniated lumbar disc, drug addiction, alcohol overdose, gunshot wound, automobile trauma, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-positive infection, mental problem, or personality disorder.... Any patient coming to a hospital ED requesting 'emergency' care must be screened and treated until ready for discharge, or stabilized for transfer - whether or not insured, 'documented,' or able to pay.


Quote:
High-technology EDs have degenerated into free medical offices. Between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid. Another 24 California hospitals verge on closure. Even ambulances from Mexico come to American EDs with indigents because the drivers know that EMTALA requires accepting patients who come.


Bondings wrote:
And believe me, those hospitals won't be closed, the story comes from WorldNetDaily. Wink


Yeah, those 60 hospitals in Ca didn't close, did they? And those other 24 hospitals won't close either.

Seriously unbelievable... Rolling Eyes
Scaramanga
iridios wrote:
Bondings wrote:

And believe me, those hospitals won't be closed, the story comes from WorldNetDaily. Wink

Did you read the article, or just dismiss it out of hand because it comes from a conservative source?

The article says that the common estimate of uninsured is 43 million of which 25 to 50 percent are likely to be illegal aliens.

The article also says that, "84 hospitals in California have been forced to close because of the high cost of treating illegal aliens with only 50 percent of all treatments reimbursed by government."

That article says what it WANTS to say, not facts. I've bolded their speculative "facts". I dismiss articles from WorldNetDaily (and most other obviously conservative OR liberal media outlets) because they have an obvious politcal agenda and bias that skews everything there.

S3nd K3ys wrote:
Center for Immigration Studies wrote:
In just the last four years immigration has increased the size of the uninsured population by 2.7 million people.

Just so you don't try to skew these numbers, I bolded the part that says 'increased the size by', so you wouldn't confuse it with the total number of uninsured.

Ahhh so now the truth comes out. You don't have a problem with illegals, rather ALL immigrants?? No where does it say those are illegal immigration numbers.

S3nd K3ys wrote:

I agree. Unfortunately, hospitals are not allowed to turn them down, NO MATTER WHAT ILLNESS THEY HAVE!. And they generally go to the emergency room instead of a doctor's office or regular office visit because they know they'll be turned down. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA), obligates hospitals to treat the uninsured but does not pay for that care.

Bzzzz, try again. Instead of linking to http://www.emtala.com/ (which has again, surprise surprise, a conservative agenda, when you start digging,) why not link directly to the government EMTALA page which lays everything out, and which lays thing out in layman's terms:

Quote:
In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

Patients have to unergo a screening, and only IF that screening determines they have an Emergency Medical Condition (EMC) are they to be treated/referred. Also note EMTALA only applies to participating hospitals (what benefits would a participating hospital garner I wonder? Oh right, reimbursement from the Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.)

S3nd K3ys wrote:
Bondings wrote:
And believe me, those hospitals won't be closed, the story comes from WorldNetDaily. Wink

Yeah, those 60 hospitals in Ca didn't close, did they? And those other 24 hospitals won't close either.

Man where do they come up with those numbers? Googling hospital closures in CA all I see is that between 1995 - 2000 23 hospitals closed. That's a fairly far cry from 60. Also, while admittedly CA has the fastest number of hospital closures most of that has been proven to be from mismanagement and huge retrofit requirements and cutbacks on the state and Federal level. Important to note that the majority of hospital closures were FOR-PROFIT hospitals, not general emergency care public hospitals.
DX-Blog
Instead of threatening with closing down hospitals the entire emergency system needs to get some logic to it. It's called emergency for a reason. If you come here with a common cold to the emergency room they'll tell you to leave and if you stay they'll let security remove you. That's the way it is and that's the way it should be. It's called emergency for a reason. The moment you're about to die then you have the right to go directly to the emergency room.

Everything else you just start at your local doctor. He doesn't send you through to the hospital, that's that, you wont get into the hospital. Want a second opinion? Go whine somewhere else.

All the illegals will just get a talk with a doctor then, minor examination and no hospital bothered in any way. Most likely even few will come seeing as to how they know the chances of actually getting into the hospital will be much smaller.
dragonflame
I wonder what the non illegal poor does when they need help? Welfare? Isn't that mooching off the system as well?

So are you pissed that outsiders are mooching off the system together with 'legals'?
gonzo
eday2010 wrote:
That is the essence of Socialism; lower everyone to the lowest common denominator. Everything for everyone always turns out to be nothing for no one.


No, see, you're not looking at it from the "right perspective". Nothing is a kind of something so its real like beer. You are simply getting what you deserve according to a liberalese notion of justice

S3nd K3ys wrote:
Bondings wrote:
So if a homeless person without insurance comes to a hospital, you should let him die in front of it? I love pure capitalism.


Ignorance is bliss. Or perhaps you're just trying to change the subject to something more extreme to try to justify your skewed perception of reality and your lack of knowledge of the situation.


ding ding.. you win a gold star



Bondings wrote:
(the biggest part of them aren't aliens), but only a small part of them use the emergency services


generally the ONLY way illegals can get medical services is by ILLEGALLY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF EMERGENCY SERVICES
watersoul
Wow, this thread really interested me but also surprised me!
There's no such thing as a perfect health care system but my gosh, I'm really glad and proud to say that in my country our National Health Service will treat anyone at the point of need for free without question and regardless of where they are from, whether legally in the country or not. The point of health care is fixing people when they need it, and doctors/nurses here are paid irrespective of the people they treat so they do it for the love of the result, not the sliding scale of which patients are more profitable.
There will always be people who abuse systems, and yes, maybe the UK's is lacking resources for everyone because of this kind of thing, but the majority of people who need help get it when they need it or after a short waiting list so I'm happy for a few abusers of the system to profit whilst the majority don't have to worry about selling their homes to pay for their treatment.
...long live a system that doesn't follow the purely capitalist path!
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