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Microsoft blows it again... (Why NOT to use IE)





S3nd K3ys
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10651414/from/RS.1/

Quote:
Microsoft scrambles to fix 'severe' security flaw
Previously unknown flaw leaves PCs vulnerable to spyware, viruses


Oops....
TheGeek
o....how lovely...one more thing to fret about..


but then again, we already knew that ms was insecure...so its not really new
Marston
TheGeek wrote:
but then again, we already knew that ms was insecure...so its not really new
Yes, Microsoft, the company, is insecure... I think maybe you mean Windows.
Pikokola
Yeah.. same as above, but I think It's usefull to keep IE since there is some feature that still didn't exist on firefox, the show image, in firefox it'll close the window and show the image only, and thats bad if you meet with a touring images Sad
Aelita
microdoft is to "userfriendly" (hacker friendly) It tries to make things easier for its users by allowing things that other browsers no better than to allow or do.
MistaKiula
The last time I use IE was... last year.. lol been using FF since.
TheGeek
Marston wrote:
TheGeek wrote:
but then again, we already knew that ms was insecure...so its not really new
Yes, Microsoft, the company, is insecure... I think maybe you mean Windows.


lol, i didnt think of it that way...well, you may even substitute bill gates there as well, "...bill gates was insecure..."
TheGeek
o also agree that keeping IE is a wise choice, however, use it sparingly as to minimize exposure. For example, when you update your computer manualy through MS's website, they require you to have IE so that they can do their activeX control thingy and find out what updates you already have.
VIPER VENOM
Still to date, nothing has come close to all the things windows has to offer, but from all of the windows versions to date xp pro is my favorite.
but windows is a little over priced compared to lindows and other operating systems.
Marston
MistaKiula wrote:
The last time I use IE was... last year.. lol been using FF since.
So.. you don't get your windows updates?
TheGeek wrote:
Marston wrote:
TheGeek wrote:
but then again, we already knew that ms was insecure...so its not really new
Yes, Microsoft, the company, is insecure... I think maybe you mean Windows.


lol, i didnt think of it that way...well, you may even substitute bill gates there as well, "...bill gates was insecure..."
Not insecure, just terrible at programming Wink.
Eyre
i think microsoft in a whole has problems Razz

I'll end with my most favorite quote:
Eyre:What if programs could really talk?
Shadow:Windows:Hello trojan! Sure i'll leave the backdoor unlocked. *psst...the passwords are over there!
Eyre:hhahahahahahhahahaha
Shadow:Windows:please kill me!
VIPER VENOM
LOL I agree it has problems but other than being over priced it is the best we have. at this point in time.
clip
it's the best LOOKING, only. not the best that we have. Mac is better, and Linux is somehow even safer. It's just the most common software and the most popular. And with all those security flaws that they have, I can't believe that they make all their users pay a lot just to be infected with spywares and viruses and have their private accounts get hacked and things like that.

If I had the choice, I'd really go for Mac or Linux. I tried Linux before, it's just very nice. IMHO, it's a programmers OS, and about Mac, it just owns MS,
mark
Thats just great (sarcastically). But Microsoft still has a clear monopoly. 90% of PC's run on Windows Operating Systems.
technology.sponge
Microsoft Internet Back-Doo...Explorer Very Happy
We all knew MSIE was insecure since the rise of high speed internet access. Use firefox - much more secure nd popup blocker built in. The excuse - it isnt widely used nd many sites don't support it is rubbush!

Firefoz has 20% + of the market and quickl;y rising.
Most sites load exactly the same as in IE
A lot of sites are now endorsing firefoz over IE
chiragcoolboy
I want to use Opera bcoz its the best but i m used to IE. Trying my best to leave IE. Crying or Very sad
clip
chiragcoolboy wrote:
I want to use Opera bcoz its the best but i m used to IE. Trying my best to leave IE. Crying or Very sad


try firefox, the interface looks the same as IE, so you don't have to worry about feeling noobish when you use it. Very Happy
Alya
I had IE completely uninstalled from my system for several years. I think for security purposes it's not enough to simply not use IE, it's better to have it uninstalled altogether.

To uninstall IE I used XPLite http://www.litepc.com/

I never had any problems. I use Mozilla\Seamonkey browser. With myriads of extentions available for this browser, you can customize it to do things that are well beyond IE.
TheGeek
first off, then how do you get windows updates? ^^^

secondly, why would someone use opera over firefox...opera is harder to use in my opinion and firefox actually has a theme that mimics IE6....
gonzo
only cretins and employees of microsoft still use IE. There's probably some overlap.
babumuchhala
Just to all those saying Windows is Insecure, IE is insecure, critising Microsoft and still using it. I just wanna say one thing Stop Being a Hypocrat.

If u feel they are Insecure there are other safer alternatives.

I also say IE is complely Insecure and so use Opera. And critcise it to the fullest. WIndows XP is not so secure, but then its the same thing that made computing easy and available to everyone across the globe.

Everyone criticizing M$ make something as widely used as Windows and I bet it will have more bugs than Windows.

@Gonzo, Microsoft employees only use IE at work. On their Personal computers they are all using Opera/FF

NOTE: I AM NOT AN EMPLYOEE OF M$ AND NOR ASSOCIATED WITH IT ANY WAY. I AM A STUDENT OING MY ENGINEERING
Alya
TheGeek

you can get all windows updates manually
if you just allow updates to install automatically, you'll end up with a lot of garbage.

The best approach (if you know what you're doing) is decide about each update individually if you really need it.

I always was selective about updates that I installed and I never had a virus or any security breaches.

But this approach is obviously not for newbies.
S3nd K3ys
Alya wrote:
I had IE completely uninstalled from my system for several years. I think for security purposes it's not enough to simply not use IE, it's better to have it uninstalled altogether.

To uninstall IE I used XPLite http://www.litepc.com/

I never had any problems. I use Mozilla\Seamonkey browser. With myriads of extentions available for this browser, you can customize it to do things that are well beyond IE.


Lies.

It's physically impossible to remove IE from Windows since they incorporated it into the OS.

To test this, open your command prompt and type IEXPLORE and hit ENTER. For further ammusement, go to the directory where IE is installed and DELETE the file name IEXPLORE.EXE.

Wait a minute and it will be back. Then try to edit it in a hex editor, and it will revert.

IE is part of the OS. The ONLY way to remove IE is to remove Windows.
mstreet
I'm a Mac user I don't have to deal with that crap.

Had to say that
S3nd K3ys
babumuchhala wrote:
All the most i think one can do is to Curropt it so it becomes unusable, but it will create problems in ur OS.


I tried that. It restores iexplore.exe. Just like if you delete the file, it returns.

Quote:
All these uninstallers mostly do is hide them away deep from ur eyes


That's all you CAN do. IE is HARDCODED into the operating system. You will NEVER get it out.













NEVER.
Sunny
I run a cyber cafe and use Internet Explorer. My PCs are most vunerable to spywares/viruses/adware/trojans/worms etc since many types of customers browse the net and they DO NOT care about the pcs so they click almost everything, even if they know its a virus.

I've never used any anti spyware(its STUPIDITY to install one actually) and yet my pc hardly ever gets affected. I use just few tweaks. All those who are cursing Microsoft are actually using Microsoft products . If you think MS is really crap why bother using their products? just dump Ms?

Even the article S3nd K3ys posted says 90% of surfers use Windows OS. So if one ever wants to create a spyware he will try to target windows or mac? same applies with Internet Explorer. Firefox has vunberalities too just they are not exploited as much. As long as MS is coming out with patches, I DO NOT see any problem in IE.

Talking of safety, even if you do get a spyware you can remove it or reinstall windows in worst case. But tell me how safe it is to fly in an aircraft?
pomp
Use IE for compatibility, Firefox for security, Opera for speed. Some sites get better rendered in IE because they are made for IE sites. So it sometimes becomes a necessary evil. Firefox is best for going to unsecure sites, searching through google because a complete google toolbar is available, and downloading stuff. Opera is good for old or heavly used PC's, extensive customising etc.
headlong
I just don't understand why Microsoft is making its software bigger and bigger while a lot of other people are making smal and clean and fast software. From the software engineer point of view, it is almost impossible to get rid of all the bugs.
Loafer357
It is true that IE is quite insecure.. I know how insecure it is because I have actually exploited it myself. One of the biggest ways to start finding exploits and bugs in software is to get many people to use it. An example being AIM, if you look on google for "aim exploit" you will literally get hundreds of sites with people like n3kod3 making programs for script kiddies to crash their friends, flood people, and more. Exploits in aim were never really discovered until version 4.8 came out, by then AIM's user base had grown quite large and some people started figuring out bugs and exploits. The same goes with IE, as mentioned before a vast majority of internet users use IE and an equally large majority of people use windows in of itself. So people started figuring out bugs, exploits and the like. You really can't blame microsoft for making buggy software, or bill gates for being a bad programmer. What's really true about it, is that a large number of people use microsofts software and some mischeivious people realized this. So I don't seem like i'm rambling i'm just going to finish with the statement that even though IE may not be the safest browser, if say FF was to become just as big(maybe bigger) I can garuntee the tides would change and exploits bugs viruses spyware and the like would become "FireFox Friendly"
Da Rossa
Nowadays it is not about the lack of funcionalities in IE and its security issues. Its because Firefox is the best, has everything you need, is opensource, you can modify it if you can, the developers are more attentious to the flaws than M$ with it's IE, the bugs are solved in a matter of hours, not more than days, the tabbrowse makes it all much faster, and last, but not least, the extensions let you acess and do almost everything.

Why use IE, then?
diverden
Mozilla/Firefox is my first choice. It also lets you choose pages to open with IE Ugh, if you have to. Some sites do not work correctly with drop downs, etc, with Mozilla but that is not the norm.
KHO
Yes, we all know that Windows has many holes, as does its' browser, lE Neutral. But if we would all stop using it and switch to another, say Linux, then Linux would constantly be the one updating holes Neutral. Hackers target the most popular OS because they know that's the only way they are sure to get someone Neutral. lE is still the most popular browser, and as such it pays the price of being targeted Neutral. lf Fire Fox should ever become more widely used, it would then become the target, and hackers would then create the viruses for Fire Fox.

But Bill Gates still brought Windows destruction upon himself, he is the one the made Windows the superpower it is now Neutral. He advertised it as the only OS that could do the kinds of things a buisness needs, and it was, there was no lies in that, but soon later, others did this even better, but he already had all the contracts, meaning everything was already compatable for his OS, and the others had to find a way to work with this, or make their own software/ get their own developers to sign.

And, the new OS wants too much for too little gain, and they want me to go buy all new hardware Neutral. Who wants to do a total system haul just to upgrade the software?? l am not alright with this, as such when XP has lost its' shine, l will ship to the latest Linux Neutral, and l will advise everyone to do the same with me Neutral.
haris3
I have always been a fan of windows. Don't like macs much. Don't a big fan of apple. I always hear about these new browsers but who has time to install them and try every feature they have. and then uninstall and install another. I just like the looks of IE, always been used to it. I used to have netscape, but didn't like it much. But I also think that IE is not secure as it could be. It hacked my bro's computer bout a month ago, and i had to install windows again. They are not good at blocking pop-ups, even with service pack 2.

Peace

reuiowe11231
mOrpheuS
S3nd K3ys wrote:
babumuchhala wrote:
All the most i think one can do is to Curropt it so it becomes unusable, but it will create problems in ur OS.


I tried that. It restores iexplore.exe. Just like if you delete the file, it returns.

Quote:
All these uninstallers mostly do is hide them away deep from ur eyes


That's all you CAN do. IE is HARDCODED into the operating system. You will NEVER get it out.
.
.
.
NEVER.

IE is NOT Hardcoded into Windows. It's just highly integrated.
And deleting one file is not the way to remove it, that file will just be put back by SFC (unless you have SFC disabled).

But you CAN remove IE from any version of Windows to date.
(quite contrary to popular belief) Cool

I know most about XP, so that's what I'll talk about :
Windows XP installation is (internally) very modular and highly customizable.
You can remove almost any component ...even to the point of rendering it absolutely unusable.
At the same time it's also possible to create a XP installation which runs smoothly on even a system with 64 Mb RAM.

Information about each component installed is stored within INF files and registry hives. Both of which are plain-text - editable with notepad.
(some of these files may need to be extracted from their cab archives first)
INF files mostly contain info about which files to be copied.
Registry hives contain info about the components registrations.

You can either edit these files and customize your windows installation with hand, or use a tool like nLite.
And you can remove a whole lot of unused windows components this way.
(These are not false claims, trust me...not for nothing is this little utility rated 5 stars at most freeware sites).

I personally customize my XP installation source for optimum gaming performance and (believe it or not) the following are not false claims :
  • My XP CD is a pocket sized disk (189 MB) and that includes the drivers for all my hardware. (graphics card, sound card, mo/bo)
  • I don't spend hours installing windows, installing drivers, customizing windows etc....I just put in the CD and boot off it...everything is fully automated, and XP installation is over in under 20 minutes. No user intervention...not a single mouse-click or key press needed.
  • XP takes just 332 MB space (all inclusive) on my harddisk. Not GBs
  • XP boots in under 20 seconds.
  • Freshly booted XP uses under 50 MB RAM which includes ~1.5 MB of nvidia driver service (I have the disk pagefile disabled since I have 1.5 GB RAM)
  • There are just 13 processes (visible in task manager) when I boot my PC.
  • My "Program Files" folder contains just one file - wordpad.exe.

Exclamation


For already installed Windows XP you can use XPLite (XP specific version of LitePC) but it will probably not take you as far as direct source modification will.

[Offtopic]
History of LitePC is even more interesting.
If you remember the United States vs. Microsoft case of 1998, where Microsoft was accused of forcing OEM PC makers to put only IE in the new PCs being shipped with Windows 98.
Microsoft defended their case claiming that windows 98 would not run without internet explorer. (much like people here are claiming)
To debunk their claims, Australian computer scientist Shane Brooks demonstrated that windows could indeed run with IE removed.
Shane Brooks later went on to make LitePC which gives users an option to remove a whole lot of unwanted windows components which are otherwise unremovable.
[/Offtopic]


Anyhow, I suggest you try nLite.
I'm sure you will agree that IE is indeed removable.
Wink


EDIT : To help the sceptics believe in OS lightening, these guys customized their Windows XP and managed to run XP on a 20 MHz (underclocked Pentium) processor and on 18 MB RAM !
bogden
yah this is pretty rediculus;
i just hope the press runs with this and people realize how MS needs to get its shit together
babumuchhala
mOrpheuS wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
babumuchhala wrote:
All the most i think one can do is to Curropt it so it becomes unusable, but it will create problems in ur OS.


I tried that. It restores iexplore.exe. Just like if you delete the file, it returns.

Quote:
All these uninstallers mostly do is hide them away deep from ur eyes


That's all you CAN do. IE is HARDCODED into the operating system. You will NEVER get it out.
.
.
.
NEVER.

IE is NOT Hardcoded into Windows. It's just highly integrated.
And deleting one file is not the way to remove it, that file will just be put back by SFC (unless you have SFC disabled).

But you CAN remove IE from any version of Windows to date.
(quite contrary to popular belief) Cool

I know most about XP, so that's what I'll talk about :
Windows XP installation is (internally) very modular and highly customizable.
You can remove almost any component ...even to the point of rendering it absolutely unusable.
At the same time it's also possible to create a XP installation which runs smoothly on even a system with 64 Mb RAM.

Information about each component installed is stored within INF files and registry hives. Both of which are plain-text - editable with notepad.
(some of these files may need to be extracted from their cab archives first)
INF files mostly contain info about which files to be copied.
Registry hives contain info about the components registrations.

You can either edit these files and customize your windows installation with hand, or use a tool like nLite.
And you can remove a whole lot of unused windows components this way.
(These are not false claims, trust me...not for nothing is this little utility rated 5 stars at most freeware sites).

I personally customize my XP installation source for optimum gaming performance and (believe it or not) the following are not false claims :
  • My XP CD is a pocket sized disk (189 MB) and that includes the drivers for all my hardware. (graphics card, sound card, mo/bo)
  • I don't spend hours installing windows, installing drivers, customizing windows etc....I just put in the CD and boot off it...everything is fully automated, and XP installation is over in under 20 minutes. No user intervention...not a single mouse-click or key press needed.
  • XP takes just 332 MB space (all inclusive) on my harddisk. Not GBs
  • XP boots in under 20 seconds.
  • Freshly booted XP uses under 50 MB RAM which includes ~1.5 MB of nvidia driver service (I have the disk pagefile disabled since I have 1.5 GB RAM)
  • There are just 13 processes (visible in task manager) when I boot my PC.
  • My "Program Files" folder contains just one file - wordpad.exe.

Exclamation


For already installed Windows XP you can use XPLite (XP specific version of LitePC) but it will probably not take you as far as direct source modification will.

[Offtopic]
History of LitePC is even more interesting.
If you remember the United States vs. Microsoft case of 1998, where Microsoft was accused of forcing OEM PC makers to put only IE in the new PCs being shipped with Windows 98.
Microsoft defended their case claiming that windows 98 would not run without internet explorer. (much like people here are claiming)
To debunk their claims, Australian computer scientist Shane Brooks demonstrated that windows could indeed run with IE removed.
Shane Brooks later went on to make LitePC which gives users an option to remove a whole lot of unwanted windows components which are otherwise unremovable.
[/Offtopic]


Anyhow, I suggest you try nLite.
I'm sure you will agree that IE is indeed removable.
Wink


EDIT : To help the sceptics believe in OS lightening, these guys customized their Windows XP and managed to run XP on a 20 MHz (underclocked Pentium) processor and on 18 MB RAM !
Thanks for all the eye openers, mOrph. I hope litePC is a boon for my PC whic only has 64 MB of RAM. But the problem is one cant remove IE as quite a few softwares are hard coded to use IE. My ISPs dialer is hardcoded to use IE, or else i wont be able to check my account Sad
lolz
Mozilla Firefox is a really good open source internet browser most good softwares are open source, it sorta gives everyone a "say" to what should the particular program have to be
mOrpheuS
babumuchhala wrote:
I hope litePC is a boon for my PC whic only has 64 MB of RAM. But the problem is one cant remove IE as quite a few softwares are hard coded to use IE. My ISPs dialer is hardcoded to use IE, or else i wont be able to check my account Sad

If you don't mind reinstalling your operating system once in a while, I'll suggest you try nLite.
It lets you remaster a copy of your windows CD so that the windows "junk" is not even installed.
Prevention is better than cure... Wink

By the way, which ISP/dialer is that ?
Most cable ISPs use Cyberoam (aka 24online), and that doesn't need IE engine to work as far as I know.
And if that dialer is a popular one, you can perhaps find a version/clone that works without IE (or it's core).

Optimizing windows XP for low RAM system is quite different from just removing IE and other unwanted components though...that discussion deserves a thread of it's own.
babumuchhala
mOrpheuS wrote:
babumuchhala wrote:
I hope litePC is a boon for my PC whic only has 64 MB of RAM. But the problem is one cant remove IE as quite a few softwares are hard coded to use IE. My ISPs dialer is hardcoded to use IE, or else i wont be able to check my account Sad

If you don't mind reinstalling your operating system once in a while, I'll suggest you try nLite.
It lets you remaster a copy of your windows CD so that the windows "junk" is not even installed.
Prevention is better than cure... Wink

K WIll try that after some time. But the problem is i dont have a CD RW, so have to take the whole HDD to a friends place to write the cd

mOrpheuS wrote:
By the way, which ISP/dialer is that ?
Most cable ISPs use Cyberoam (aka 24online), and that doesn't need IE engine to work as far as I know.
And if that dialer is a popular one, you can perhaps find a version/clone that works without IE (or it's core).
Its the big bad daddy of Indian Broadband Scene. SIFY, and its got its own proprietery dialer login system Sad Thats why i cant use it on anythng but Windows/MAC/ Red Hat. No other linux distro is supported or else would have been typing this from UBUNTU

mOrpheuS wrote:
Optimizing windows XP for low RAM system is quite different from just removing IE and other unwanted components though...that discussion deserves a thread of it's own.
Maybe a few email exchanges or a few chat sessions will be enough Wink
lukeropro
yep, IE is insecure, got hell lot of spyware and had to reinstall windows. Mac is better as the speeds are amazingly fast but it's not user-friendly.
magnusmoty
IE sax

why use ie then?
S3nd K3ys
Thanks for the heads up, m0rpheus.

mOrpheuS wrote:

If you don't mind reinstalling your operating system once in a while, .


So removing IE makes Windows unstable? Almost doesn't make sense to say you can remove IE but it fux04s Windows to the point of having to re-install it.
mOrpheuS
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Thanks for the heads up, m0rpheus.

mOrpheuS wrote:

If you don't mind reinstalling your operating system once in a while, .


So removing IE makes Windows unstable? Almost doesn't make sense to say you can remove IE but it fux04s Windows to the point of having to re-install it.

Sorry, should have left no room for misinterpretation.

Here, I'll re-state it -

If you are planning to do a clean install windows any time soon, you may want to try out a customized version this time.

Hope that's more clear.
Wink
S3nd K3ys
That makes sense. Wink
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