FRIHOSTFORUMSSEARCHFAQTOSBLOGSCOMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


The NSA is reading this right now....





LumberJack
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Quote:
WASHINGTON - Accused of acting above the law,
President Bush forcefully defended a domestic spying program on Monday as an effective tool in disrupting terrorists and insisted it was not an abuse of Americans' civil liberties.
ADVERTISEMENT

Bush said it was "a shameful act" for someone to have leaked details to the media. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said it was "probably the most classified program that exists in the United States government" — involving electronic intercepts of telephone calls and e-mails in the U.S. of people with known ties to al-Qaida and other terrorist groups.

At a news conference, Bush bristled at the suggestion he was assuming unlimited powers.

"To say `unchecked power' basically is ascribing some kind of dictatorial position to the president, which I strongly reject," he said angrily in a finger-pointing answer. "I am doing what you expect me to do, and at the same time, safeguarding the civil liberties of the country."



Although, I am not really surprised ... it is however, yet another fact that shows Americans are bending over and taking it from their government. The stupidity, ineptitude, and failure of your intellegence services is not a justfication for violating your civil rights. Some people in this forum have no problem letting the government into their lives, and that is fine, it is their right... but you definately do not speak for all americans. Reminds me of the old saying, if you start giving them an inch, they will take a mile. All the secret prisons and patriot acts in the land of the free is starting to get old really fast... its starting to look a lot like Russia
GT3000
Lol, calm down comrade. We're not in Russia yet, but the seriousness of this matter is important. The PA (Patriot Act) is a serious offense to the bill of rights on a whole. While some find it necessary to conduct such methods such as the Bush Administration it's quite simpe to say that of all of the Intelligence techniques conveyed to me that this method is widely ineffective and at best unpopular especially when the public is informed, and potential threats are alerted. These types of bills are best clandestine and kept with the upmost secrecy, but secrecy is an objective and dramatic term in this presidentiacy.
acamas
i dont understand! wouldnt you rather the governmoent check on people rather than not? What happens is the stop spying and an actual terrorist is not found and kills 1000 people? I think its not a nbad thing and now its exposed terrorists will find other ways of not getting caught. It depends really how much trust you have in your goverenment
GT3000
I'm all for the government....Hell Bush is going to make me extremely wealthly if he keeps the Defense Spending up. Defense Spending = Higher Officer pay. =D
But listen to my arguement, I permit the usage of the PA..
But the usage in such a public form is so reeking of PR it makes me sick, that's not protecting us...That's exposing.
S3nd K3ys
LumberJack wrote:


blah blah blah



Lumberjack got his panties all up in a bunch again.

I don't have a problem with monitoring communications internationally (and some targeted comms nationally). It's been going on for over 30 years. Why is it news now? Oh, that's right, because the Bushhaters needed something to distract the public from the success that Bush is having.
lib
S3nd K3ys wrote:
LumberJack wrote:


blah blah blah



Does this look familiar?
Yes it does!

(Sorry for the off-topic everyone. But the one person who was supposed to understand this post probably has understood it... I hope)
LumberJack
acamas wrote:
i dont understand! wouldnt you rather the governmoent check on people rather than not? What happens is the stop spying and an actual terrorist is not found and kills 1000 people? I think its not a nbad thing and now its exposed terrorists will find other ways of not getting caught. It depends really how much trust you have in your goverenment


Your exactly right. I do not trust my government.

All I see is a democratic and free nation, taking 50 steps backwards. I mean, you are fighting to give Iraqi's freedoms, yet you turn around and allow your government to legislate your freedoms away. You fought the cold war and were able to take down walls throughout the world, only to put them back up again at your own borders.

I guess I can dumb down the situation to this. You have a friend who is about to do something stupid. You try and convince him very hard that what he is going to do is really stupid and going to end up hurting them in the end... and low and behold it happens...

sad really. too bad many people will enjoy the USA implode on itself. I sure won't.
rockinxxl
All great empires must fall.

Further intrusion on civil rights is only going to antagonize the people. Ever since the "War on Terror", the American government has been finding every excuse it can to invade on peoples' rights and obtain more power.

Using fear is little short of pathetic.
Animal
acamas wrote:
i dont understand! wouldnt you rather the governmoent check on people rather than not? What happens is the stop spying and an actual terrorist is not found and kills 1000 people? I think its not a nbad thing and now its exposed terrorists will find other ways of not getting caught. It depends really how much trust you have in your goverenment


I understand your point here, but I'm quite against the widespread monitoring of internet traffic.

Put yourself back a few years before the internet and email were so widely used. If the government wanted wiretaps on telephones or if they wanted to intercept mail, they still could but they had to go through due process. The had to show some evidence (or reasoning for suspicion) to a judge to get permission to listen in on phonecalls and steam open mail. The result of this was that the government got useful information, but it was focused on a specific group, threat or suspicion.

Currently, the government intercept millions of random communications irrespective of country of origin, or whether there is an actual suspicion of wrongdoing. This is not a good thing - everyone has the right to privacy. The US government does not have the right to exploit the privacy of any person without due process.

I personally believe in encrypting email - not because I have something to hide, but because no-one has the right to read my personal communications. If the US or any other government have any reason to suspect me of illegal activities, they can go to a court and obtain a warrant and I will gladly decrypt everything and show them that I am not engaged in illegal activity. But until due process has been completed, my emails will remain encrypted whenever it's appropriate.

I highly recommend that everyone uses Mozilla Thunderbird with Enigmail to encrypt email. It's secure, easy to use and completely free. It's also compatible with other encryption programs like PGP and GnuPG. Protect your privacy. Encrypt your email.

That's my two (well... twenty more like - sorry for the long post!) cents anyway.
atomictoyz
LumberJack wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Quote:
WASHINGTON - Accused of acting above the law,
President Bush forcefully defended a domestic spying program on Monday as an effective tool in disrupting terrorists and insisted it was not an abuse of Americans' civil liberties.
ADVERTISEMENT

Bush said it was "a shameful act" for someone to have leaked details to the media. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said it was "probably the most classified program that exists in the United States government" — involving electronic intercepts of telephone calls and e-mails in the U.S. of people with known ties to al-Qaida and other terrorist groups.

At a news conference, Bush bristled at the suggestion he was assuming unlimited powers.

"To say `unchecked power' basically is ascribing some kind of dictatorial position to the president, which I strongly reject," he said angrily in a finger-pointing answer. "I am doing what you expect me to do, and at the same time, safeguarding the civil liberties of the country."



Although, I am not really surprised ... it is however, yet another fact that shows Americans are bending over and taking it from their government. The stupidity, ineptitude, and failure of your intellegence services is not a justfication for violating your civil rights. Some people in this forum have no problem letting the government into their lives, and that is fine, it is their right... but you definately do not speak for all americans. Reminds me of the old saying, if you start giving them an inch, they will take a mile. All the secret prisons and patriot acts in the land of the free is starting to get old really fast... its starting to look a lot like Russia


Talking about ineptitude..... Civil Rights has nothing to do with "privacy" since civil rights is about descrimination based upon things like Race and religion. Get the terms right.

Civil Liberties aka Bill of Rights is something different, but then you have to read it to understand it.

Amendment IV

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures , shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Is being suspected of terrorism reasonable cause or not?

If it's not then all you can expect the government to do is stand by and watch 9-11 events. Why even pay of a commission to investigate what went wrong since the "law" causes the inability to effectively prevent such events. The dismantling of HUMINT during the previous Administration was the simple reason for not seeing the clues at the right time.

The wire taps are not something average people should worry about because your government doesn't really care until you become a threat to national security.

Our country was founded with the idea of liberty and justice for all. The more laws you write the harder this gets. Granted the terrorism and spying seems bad, but it's not what we should be afraid of.

We should be afraid of Judges, Lawyers and Corporations overtaking the government. Eminent Domain, Gun Control, anti-religious organizations are stealing from the people of this nation.

Peace,
Atomic
gonzo
GT3000 wrote:
The PA (Patriot Act) is a serious offense to the bill of rights on a whole


Funny... did you complain when MOST of the laws in the PA were enacted?

Wait, don't answer just yet. I wouldn't want you to needlessly make yourself look foolish. Think carefully about your answer.


hint: MOST of them were enacted long before 911



LumberJack wrote:

Your exactly right. I do not trust my government.


Then you must be familiar with the Jeffersonian quote about refreshing that one tree with that one kind of blood. Or that other quote about armed insurrection?
Related topics
Basic HTML Introduction
[OFFICIAL] What are you currently reading?
Your favourite book (official)
What i need make here, to make a simple Web Site??
Forget...
Can anyone (preferrably a Republican fan-boy) splane this?
NATO in final stages of prepping for strikes against Iran
“Neo-Con”: not “Neo-Conservative” but “Neo-Contradictionist”
I need a fool-proof anti-source view javascript.
Sup Gang.
favorite manga?
is GMAIL trustworthy?
What is the usefulness of religion?
A Song of Ice and Fire series (Game of Thrones)
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Lifestyle and News -> Discuss World News

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.