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Can anyone (preferrably a Muslim) 'splane this to me?





S3nd K3ys
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10440377/from/RL.2/

MSNBC wrote:
CAIRO, Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?

Anyone?

It's truly amazing. Especially considering how they extended polling because of such high voter turnout.
SunburnedCactus
I mean, it's so much more evil than kidnapping and car bombs. Clearly.
Arnie
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.
ocalhoun
Probably because they consider the USA to be entrely evil, and therefore so is anything related to the USA, such as democracy.
S3nd K3ys
Arnie wrote:
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.


Nothing cloaked about it, friend. I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it. (but I'm sure I_am_mine will find a way to justify it. I think he's secretly a radical islamist working for the terrorists Wink j/k )
Arnie
And if they would reply, this thread would be a flamewar. I'm not a supporter of muslim groups, but neither of flamebait. My point is this topic has had a potential from its very first post to either 1) become flamewar 2) become an agree-and-being-agreed-to topic.
What I mean is that if nobody contradicts you, you'll get a nice topic of everyone agreeing with eachother and bashing those guys. If somebody does, you get the all vs one flamewar. So I'd say, you'd rather just not make such a topic. It's like virtual back stabbing.
xalophus
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?
S3nd K3ys wrote:
I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it.

Let me see,
you want someone (and preferraly a muslim) to speak for Alqaeda and try to justify its interpretation of Islam to you ?

Or Do you somehow believe that Alqaeda represents the whole of Islam in saying that elections are against God's law ?
And therefore believe you want (preferrably) muslims to answer for this ?
And you believe that the muslims are so guilty that "they cannot answer" ?

Or you want to argue with someone (preferrably a muslim) on whether or not Alqaeda is right in saying that elections are against God's law. The answer to which, I'm sure, you already know too well.


Or you just want to fight with a muslim ?


S3nd K3ys wrote:
Nothing cloaked about it, friend.

Yes, it's a pretty openly thrown flame-bait.
ocalhoun
Its not nearly that bad.
Besides, you don't have to worry about all vs. one flame war, our esteemed moderators will take care of that.
At least they should.
If this ends up as a flame topic, it can be locked.
Arnie
OK, so it will be locked if it goes flaming. Let me change my statement. This topic has had potential for 2 directions from its very first post on:
1) getting locked (often with a subtle sarcastic remark to the guy opposing the communis opinio)
2) everyone agrees and is agreed to
Still doesn't make sense to me.
S3nd K3ys
xalophus wrote:

you want someone (and preferraly a muslim) to speak for Alqaeda and try to justify its interpretation of Islam to you ?
.


Well, yeah. (Except maybe the part about speaking for al qaeda)

Isn't that what the whole topic was about? I mean, if it's something that can be justified, lets hear the justification. Otherwise, (especially if you're muslim), lets hear your views on the statements.

I just figured a muslim would have a better insight to that way of thinking than I would, because I'm not muslim.
earthchild
Arnie wrote:
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.


I agree with the statement above. S3nd's post is not an honest and open question by any means - it's more along the lines of a verbal attack.
ocalhoun
Arnie wrote:
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.


That dosen't mean that they can't answer the question.
Just answer the question, then exit the topic and never come back, then you don't have to worry.

(This is supposing there is an answer.)
Arnie
Interesting how this makes a link with the censorship topic...

Anyway, do you honestly believe someone is going to reply and not look at the dozens of offensive replies he gets? That's probably what you want because it will look like you're right. But it's not likely going to happen, instead he'll reply. So the punishers of the anti-communis-opinio will also bite and there's your flamewar.

Note that I strongly disapprove of terrorist attacks but I also disapprove of this topic, as you probably understood. Razz
S3nd K3ys
It's funny when you create a topic, then a bunch of people come in flaming about how it's a flame topic.

Seriously, I have no idea the logic behind the statements and would love for someone to splane it to me.
earthchild
S3nd K3ys wrote:

Seriously, I have no idea the logic behind the statements and would love for someone to splane it to me.


well since you asked, I'd suggest rereading them and really paying attention this time Wink
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
It's funny when you create a topic, then a bunch of people come in flaming about how it's a flame topic.

Seriously, I have no idea the logic behind the statements and would love for someone to splane it to me.


well since you asked, I'd suggest rereading them and really paying attention this time Wink


Ok. Here, you read along with me...

Quote:
Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


Ok, I've re-read it. I still can't understand how any fair and just God would consider it's people's ability to select their own ruler to be a violation against him. Did I miss something?

Anybody?

earthchild
oh okay, my bad.

well perhaps instead of asking muslims in general you should ask 'islamic militants'

you do realize there is a difference don't you?
LumberJack
S3nd K3ys wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10440377/from/RL.2/

MSNBC wrote:
CAIRO, Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?

Anyone?

It's truly amazing. Especially considering how they extended polling because of such high voter turnout.



The answer is in your posting "Five Islamic militant groups". They are not muslims, but muslim extremists.
i_am_mine
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Nothing cloaked about it, friend. I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it. (but I'm sure I_am_mine will find a way to justify it. I think he's secretly a radical islamist working for the terrorists Wink j/k )


I didn't even know you'd posted this, and I wouldn't have if I hadn't been just browsing around Angel

Heh Very Happy ,s3nd k3ys, you know I didn't know you'd stoop down so low when you can't debate because you have nothing concrete but your own viewpoint ( more like jell-o I'd say ) to argue with, but while you're at it, while I'm a radical Islamist militant you might actually be a holy warrior with a mandate given to you from Jesus Christ himself right, I mean you over there with a holy staff and robe, parting the seas and taking out the evil children with your infra-red heat seeking holy missiles....wait...j/k. Applause

Or wait, while I'm a radical militant ( you could add suicide bomber, I mean when your aiming so cheap, you might wanna do it with style eh? ) you might actually be a homosexual ( got nothing against that, just stating the the likeliness ) webmaster of a pr0n site that deals in military style smut ( look a lot more than just debuggin ) who's paid by the big man's party to come online and post favourable comments and make liberals who actually ask for the truth as enemies....wait....j/k j/k j/k.that was just Jeff Ganon. Mr. Green

Oh then again, while I'm a radical militant , you might want to read these posts I made on Islam some time ago...
http://frihost.com/forums/vt-14564-3.html
if you had, you would have known that I'm not pro-Islamic ( infact, I unfortunately sound anti-muslim in those posts, even though I'm not, but that comes with the truth ), neither am I pro-Christian.Your feeble mind cannot grasp this philosophy nor the idea of being un-biased.

In your fantasy-land you cannot understand that an individual may actually be fighting for the idea of democracy and truth, and that one of these ( democracy ) is perhaps one of mankinds most noblest attempts at a civilized society and the other is both the source and the destination of any religion in itself (truth), as such it is beyond your notion of taking sides, be it that of a party be it republican or democrat, or that of a religion - Islam or Christianity.I fight for neither a party nor a religion.I've, after several attempts to explain this to you, come to the conclusion that you will never be able to comprehend this, and will continue to think that anyone who does not subscribe to your views is evil and is an enemy, in that case, the world may very well be your enemy, for I assure you the majority does not subscribe.
khairulsyahir
I agree with Lumberjack. Those claims are made by extremist group which, if you don't already know, exists in all religion in the world.

Considering that you're do not understand well about Islam, it's such a lame act to let extremist group's views alone to be your interpretation about Islam. Have you ever listen to those views of Islamic scholars, and successful leaders?

It's funny, how people tend to hear the bad group of a religion tell about their religion, rather than hearing those who truly understand and practice the Islam's way of life.

There's a big difference between the religion's view and the extremist's view, but sometimes people are just too blind to see.

By the way, if you look from the point of view of those extremist groups, you might as well see the reason to why they express such view that you have mentioned. Try put yourself into their place, how things happened to them, their loss and grief, how they suffer and stuff, and perhaps you'll understand better why they have such a view. And plus, they MAY have the rationale for their view, but the world just doesn't care enough to see it.

Even though they have every right to be angry, I still believe they have no right to be cruel. But then, does the world pay heed to them, that they so desperately need? And there rise another question, who is being cruel to who?

And please, next time if you ever want to post question like this one, do a little research first. Because otherwise, people will see no other reason of why you post this topic other than a cloaked accusation.
valient
Quote:
Nothing cloaked about it, friend. I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it. (but I'm sure I_am_mine will find a way to justify it. I think he's secretly a radical islamist working for the terrorists


U recieved the reply of I_am_mine.
and y cant we relpy ? there is nuthing in it just a statment of 5 armed group who cal themselves muslims and u compaing it with whole islamic world.

i think u shld lean or try to learn the concepts of islam and i think here in these forums we explained it alot . only need to read them thoroughly.
S3nd K3ys
valient wrote:
Quote:
Nothing cloaked about it, friend. I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it. (but I'm sure I_am_mine will find a way to justify it. I think he's secretly a radical islamist working for the terrorists


U recieved the reply of I_am_mine.
and y cant we relpy ? there is nuthing in it just a statment of 5 armed group who cal themselves muslims and u compaing it with whole islamic world.

i think u shld lean or try to learn the concepts of islam and i think here in these forums we explained it alot . only need to read them thoroughly.


Contrare, monfrare, I was neither comparing nor equating ALL Muslims (or Islamists) to terrorists. I was trying to get insight as to the thinking behind it. And since I'm not Muslim, I figured the best place to possibly get that info is from a Muslim.

If you can't answer the question, that's fine. I half expect that because most Muslims probably don't think that way. (Or so I would hope)
LumberJack
S3nd K3ys wrote:
valient wrote:
Quote:
Nothing cloaked about it, friend. I think they will not answer it because they cannot answer it. (but I'm sure I_am_mine will find a way to justify it. I think he's secretly a radical islamist working for the terrorists


U recieved the reply of I_am_mine.
and y cant we relpy ? there is nuthing in it just a statment of 5 armed group who cal themselves muslims and u compaing it with whole islamic world.

i think u shld lean or try to learn the concepts of islam and i think here in these forums we explained it alot . only need to read them thoroughly.


Contrare, monfrare, I was neither comparing nor equating ALL Muslims (or Islamists) to terrorists. I was trying to get insight as to the thinking behind it. And since I'm not Muslim, I figured the best place to possibly get that info is from a Muslim.

If you can't answer the question, that's fine. I half expect that because most Muslims probably don't think that way. (Or so I would hope)


Ok so,

You are trying to get insight as to terrorist thinking. You are not a muslim so "obviously" you wouldn't know how a terrorist ticks? So you thought it would best to get the info from a muslim because they "obviously" know everything and everything about terrorism, right?

YET! you don't compare or equate ALL muslims to terrorists and you expect that most muslims don't think that way. Then why are you asking a muslim for clarification? Should you not be asking a terrorist?

are you confused yet? I sure am.

<Welcome to the inner workings of S3ndkeys mind>
benwhite
ocalhoun wrote:
Probably because they consider the USA to be entrely evil, and therefore so is anything related to the USA, such as democracy.


Ummm. Nice work there. I'm not Muslim, and honestly, -no one- should ever speak for a organization like Al-qaeda except themselves. I don't want to spout someone else's trash for them. Among other things, most people don't agree with them. But I will say this, most people, -even terrorists- (oh my!) don't fundamentally hate democracy. Much of that is backlash against U.S. intervention in Islamic affairs.

When Iraq was freed, many were happy. Many said, "great. now we can govern ourselves. Please leave." We didn't. This is why there are condemnations flying at the validity of the Iraq election. We are involved. We are moderating in their affairs. To be honest, I don't think that should matter. I certainly don't think terrorism is a viable option to protest. If one hadn't noticed, it hasn't exactly given good results.

Hamas has decided to run in Palestinian elections. Democratic elections. Case in point. It's not just democracy, don't pretend that it's their refusual to accept our clearly superior ideas that spawns conflict in the Middle East. It's a lot more than that. Don't be willfully ignorant.
S3nd K3ys
LumberJack wrote:
...

So you thought it would best to get the info from a muslim because they "obviously" know everything and everything about terrorism, right?


Wow. Where did you (not) learn to read?

I thought it would be best to get the info from a muslim because they "obviously" would have a better understanding than I would.

Why to you try to inject "everything" into my statement?
LumberJack
S3nd K3ys wrote:
LumberJack wrote:
...

So you thought it would best to get the info from a muslim because they "obviously" know everything and everything about terrorism, right?


Wow. Where did you (not) learn to read?

I thought it would be best to get the info from a muslim because they "obviously" would have a better understanding than I would.

Why to you try to inject "everything" into my statement?


Ok then, I will play... same question, using your exact wording (and no sarcasm) just to make you happy.

You are "trying to get insight as to the thinking behind it. And since <Your> not Muslim, <You> figured the best place to possibly get that info is from a Muslim. "

YET! "<You were> neither comparing nor equating ALL Muslims (or Islamists) to terrorists"

So once again, why are you asking a Muslim... should you not be asking a Terrorist?
S3nd K3ys
LumberJack wrote:
...<You> figured the best place to possibly get that info is from a Muslim. "
...


And you went/go to a University? Reading and Comprehension are key. Rolling Eyes

BTW, are your Universities run the same way your Health Care system is? Because if it is, I will just shut up about your lack of reading skills abundance of idiocy, and I'll quit picking on you, because then I'll know it's not your fault. Wink

One more thing, I don't know any terrorists to ask, but if there's any members of this board that ARE terrorists, please feel free to speak up and justify yourselves for being cowards and murderers and saying it's in the name of God (or Alah).

i_am_mine
ah more rascism, but it was expected from a persona such as yourself...

s3nd k3ys wrote:
but if there's any members of this board that ARE terrorists, please feel free to speak up and justify yourselves for being cowards and murderers and saying it's in the name of God (or Alah).


First you create a topic, clearly and obviously provoking and mocking muslims, and then you equate muslims with being cowards and terrorists?

And to top it all off, you try to pass it off a decent question.

What comes around goes around, and I wouldn't be surprised or say its uncalled for if the muslim's on this board called you a rascist, because beyond doubt you clearly are one.
LumberJack
S3nd K3ys wrote:
LumberJack wrote:
...<You> figured the best place to possibly get that info is from a Muslim. "
...


And you went/go to a University? Reading and Comprehension are key. Rolling Eyes

BTW, are your Universities run the same way your Health Care system is? Because if it is, I will just shut up about your lack of reading skills abundance of idiocy, and I'll quit picking on you, because then I'll know it's not your fault. Wink

One more thing, I don't know any terrorists to ask, but if there's any members of this board that ARE terrorists, please feel free to speak up and justify yourselves for being cowards and murderers and saying it's in the name of God (or Alah).


Well, one can only comprehend so much from poor writing skills... but it is ok. The world is well aware of the American Education System... can you point to Iraq on a map S3nd? I would hope so!

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/

Since you are having trouble getting a straight answer from Muslims on this board (more like they don't want to waste their time). Here is some help... surely a man as educated as you are aware of several terrorists near you. They are in prison right now, and I am sure they would apprechate a letter.... they aren't even international so you can save on postage, they speak english so you won't have any communication issues, and are as "American as Apple Pie"...

Timothy McVeigh
Eric Rudolph
Richard Reid

I am sure they can help sort things out for you.

If all else fails, you can ask your president. He is considered a terrorist himself by many people Very Happy
S3nd K3ys
i_am_mine wrote:
ah more rascism, but it was expected from a persona such as yourself...

s3nd k3ys wrote:
but if there's any members of this board that ARE terrorists, please feel free to speak up and justify yourselves for being cowards and murderers and saying it's in the name of God (or Alah).


First you create a topic, clearly and obviously provoking and mocking muslims, and then you equate muslims with being cowards and terrorists?

And to top it all off, you try to pass it off a decent question.

What comes around goes around, and I wouldn't be surprised or say its uncalled for if the muslim's on this board called you a rascist, because beyond doubt you clearly are one.


No, YOU just equated muslims with being cowards and terrorists. I equated TERRORISTS to being cowards and terrorists.

Please stop spinning things around to give yourself an arguement and stick to the subject instead of trying to inject racism into everything.

Also, I was not mocking muslims, I was asking for insight. You are trying to put forth the opinion that I did by claiming (albeit falsly), that I did. The same kind of rhetoric I see daily from left wing moonbat radicals.

Say it enough times and people will start believing it.

No wonder the Democratic party is going down the toilet more and more every year.
i_am_mine
Repeat it enough times and people will start believing it? Democrats? Dillusional?

" There's WMD's ! ".......


" There's WMD's ! ".....


" There's WMD's ! "....


" There's WMD's ! "..


" There's WMD's ! "..


"OoOops no WMD's there."

So much for repeating it enough times.

And the muslims, and everyone else spoke for themselves:

khairulsyahir wrote:

Quote:
And please, next time if you ever want to post question like this one, do a little research first. Because otherwise, people will see no other reason of why you post this topic other than a cloaked accusation.


earthchild (non muslim) wrote:
Quote:

well perhaps instead of asking muslims in general you should ask 'islamic militants'

you do realize there is a difference don't you?


arnie (non muslim ) wrote:


Quote:
Note that I strongly disapprove of terrorist attacks but I also disapprove of this topic, as you probably understood.


earthchild wrote:
Quote:
I agree with the statement above. S3nd's post is not an honest and open question by any means - it's more along the lines of a verbal attack.


arnie wrote:

Quote:
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.


people can see attitude and sense derogation by themselves.
ainieas
Quote:
Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?


Choosing one's government is not a violation of any of God's law in Islam. Being Muslims we (my family) live in a democratic country and vote for our government. If anyone finds anything wrong with my statement let him prove his point.

BTW, you are quoting militants in your posts. The point of their speeches is to get to people up in arms. I don't even consider them as muslims. Not many other muslims do too.

I'd admit though that I'd like to see the muslim world leaders come out in the open and speak against these militants.

Also not every terrorist is a muslim, not every muslim is a terrorist. So if you want to know about the thinking of a terrorist's mind, try psychology.

Finally, I'd like to ask does being a Muslim make us bad people? I'm tired of the racism that I've to face everyday.
srijit
lol this topic is just flamebait. how can one man justify another man's action ( unless he is a lawyer Wink ) its as useless as commenting that the Iraq invasion was started because Bush had a vision from god Twisted Evil I mean can anyone justify that. if so they you can also justify Hitler and killing of jews.
if you want to know what al-queda wants write an email to them and ask them yourself Mad
S3nd K3ys
ainieas wrote:


Choosing one's government is not a violation of any of God's law in Islam. Being Muslims we (my family) live in a democratic country and vote for our government. If anyone finds anything wrong with my statement let him prove his point.


Then why do the terrorists fear/hate it so much? Seems they'd rather have a dictatorship where they can control the people via force and intimidation without cause or justice.

Quote:
BTW, you are quoting militants in your posts. The point of their speeches is to get to people up in arms. I don't even consider them as muslims. Not many other muslims do too.


I agree 100%, but a westerner like me has a lot less insight to the thinking of those associated with your culture. (I'm not associating YOU with terrorists, but terrorists are associated with the muslim culture.)

Quote:
I'd admit though that I'd like to see the muslim world leaders come out in the open and speak against these militants.


They have. (Some at least). You just don't hear about the good news enough.

Quote:
Also not every terrorist is a muslim, not every muslim is a terrorist. So if you want to know about the thinking of a terrorist's mind, try psychology.


Most terrorists are muslims. But most Muslims are not terrorists. I know there is a huge difference. But a Muslim would have more insight to where the belief might come from then I would. I'm sure the terrorists are trying to justify their actions/beliefs with the rest of the muslim world, so I wondered how.

Quote:

Finally, I'd like to ask does being a Muslim make us bad people? I'm tired of the racism that I've to face everyday.


Not unless you're planning on trying to convert everyone to Islam. Wink There's racism in many aspects of many cultures. It's not just muslims. It especially happens at times like these, or like in WWII against Japanese/German/Italians. And it's not just westerners. The radical Islamic Muslims are, IMNSHO, extremely racist against anyone not believing in Islam. As was Hitler, and many others before them.
GDG
Hey, just browsing around and saw thsi pretty interesting. Now i know i am not Al-Qaeda, but what there mission is is to build an islamic state with an islamic governement. Now America is making a western governemnt. See the problem???
valient
Quote:
Then why do the terrorists fear/hate it so much?


y u keep asking muslims if there isnt any thing like this in religion?

Quote:
I agree 100%, but a westerner like me has a lot less insight to the thinking of those associated with your culture
.

wht can we do if u dnt wana understand,,

Quote:
They have. (Some at least). You just don't hear about the good news enough.


u can read the pakistani presidents point of view. he's trying to show the right face of islam to the world.

Quote:
Not unless you're planning on trying to convert everyone to Islam.


dnt know realy abt wht are the concepts of these terrorist. but u have to clear u'r mind that its strictly prohobited in islam to force sumone (with power) to enter or accept islam.

Quote:
what there mission is is to build an islamic state with an islamic governement.


i dnt think. they are just anti americans. against american policies. dnt know wht they exact;y want.
S3nd K3ys
valient wrote:

wht can we do if u dnt wana understand,,


First you could buy a vowel. Second, I thought it was clear that I DO want to understand, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this thread.

Quote:



u can read the pakistani presidents point of view. he's trying to show the right face of islam to the world.


Like I said,
Quote:
They have. (Some at least). You just don't hear about the good news enough.


Quote:

Quote:
Not unless you're planning on trying to convert everyone to Islam.


dnt know realy abt wht are the concepts of these terrorist. but u have to clear u'r mind that its strictly prohobited in islam to force sumone (with power) to enter or accept islam.

Then why the passages in the Q'ran that I interpret to mean convert or die?
earthchild
S3nd K3ys wrote:
valient wrote:

dnt know realy abt wht are the concepts of these terrorist. but u have to clear u'r mind that its strictly prohobited in islam to force sumone (with power) to enter or accept islam.

Then why the passages in the Q'ran that I interpret to mean convert or die?


key words there - you interpret
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
valient wrote:

dnt know realy abt wht are the concepts of these terrorist. but u have to clear u'r mind that its strictly prohobited in islam to force sumone (with power) to enter or accept islam.

Then why the passages in the Q'ran that I interpret to mean convert or die?


key words there - you interpret


No. Really? You think maybe that got in there by accident? Rolling Eyes
horseatingweeds
GOOD GLOY and an APPLE PIE!!!!

You guys, we need to rename this thread to “S3nd, you write lousy posts!!!!!”.

Anyway,

Quote:
Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


I’m not Muslim, but this is how I understand this kind of talk S3nd.

You have people like Bin Ladin, who want lots of power and control over other people. Maybe they got angry one day for what ever, caused some trouble, got kicked out of the palace, ended up training in some desert. Regardless, they take groups of impoverished persons and convince them that all of there hardship is do to the evil America doing this or that and that they have a holly privilege to fight for God. They teach, or indoctrinate them into a twisted version of Islam where Am. Is the equivalent to the Seth or dark side or what ever. So the elections are more or less Am. turning Iraq to the dark side. Hence, "satanic project."

Death to America
valient
Quote:
First you could buy a vowel


its my prblem . u need nt to wrry abt it.

Quote:
I DO want to understand, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this thread.


if u do then u dnt want to finsh these arguments. in my previous post i said

Quote:
there isnt any thing like this in religion


got it? nothing in our religion like this.

Quote:
Then why the passages in the Q'ran that I interpret to mean convert or die?


in Quran there are 30 chapters. and in evry chapers there are thousands of verses right.?

u cant just quote one verse frm the whole quran. and if there is anything like this then u should study the whole SURAH or chapter it'll clear the meaning.. i remember in u'r other thread also u did the same thing quoted three verses but if u read the whole SURAH frm which u quoted the verses it'll make u'r points clear. In islam there isnt any kind of aggression. i dnt want to go in details.
wolfhnd
Not a Muslim.

The answer is very simple. The United States is a secular nation, it only supports the concept of secular government, most fundamentalist object to one degree or the other to secular government even christian fundamentalist.

How you could expect an Islamic organization to support the election of a secular government is hard for me to understand. Just take a look at Kansas and the battle over intelligent design which amounts to little more than an attempt to reintroduce religion into schools.

The other people who responded are correct in that you are most often disingenuous when you post a question. The answers are contained in the question a form of circular locution. If I may let me rephrase the question for you.

What if any elements of the Islamic belief system support the position that the current elections in Iraq are spiritually corrupt?
lib
wolfhnd wrote:
How you could expect an Islamic organization to support the election of a secular government is hard for me to understand.

OK. Tell me first whether or not you think the elections in Iraq were successful?
Oh you did?
GOTCHA!
Iraq is an Islamic state. (surprise!)
And judging by the number of people who voted (the Sunnis and the Shias), I'd say that muslims in Iraq support democracy... the ones who don't are the religious fundamentalist militants who are anti-America, probably for intruding (as they most likely perceive) in Iraq's internal affairs.

It's been said a few times in various threads, but apparently, you're not getting it... I'll write it again:
You can't equate all Muslims. You can't point at a bunch of America/democracy-hating Muslim terrorists and say that Islam or all Muslims are against democracy and secularism.
S3nd K3ys
lib wrote:

It's been said a few times in various threads, but apparently, you're not getting it... I'll write it again:
You can't equate all Muslims. You can't point at a bunch of America/democracy-hating Muslim terrorists and say that Islam or all Muslims are against democracy and secularism.


All muslims, no, but according to OBL, Islam is the justification for declaring war and attacking the US.

Again, I will show you the truth, in OBL's own words, because you don't seem to get it, that Islam says to convert or die.



Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' wrote:
Sunday November 24, 2002

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]


Here comes the money shot...

OBL wrote:
Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.


OBL wrote:
"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]
wolfhnd
Islam does not indorse secular governments. Muslims may but Islam does not. I know these small distinctions are annoying to politically correct androids but please try and read what is said not what you want to hear.
S3nd K3ys
wolfhnd wrote:
Islam does not indorse secular governments. Muslims may but Islam does not. I know these small distinctions are annoying to politically correct androids but please try and read what is said not what you want to hear.


I thought it was pretty clear...

Quote:
(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.


Sounds like they want everyone to give up their religion and preach Islam

No ef'n thanks!
Dread Lord Chaos
I'm not going to read the last couple pages of posts seeing as I have a website to work on(which is why most of us are here, aren't we?). Anywho s3nd k3ys, I am a Muslim and a white one at that, born in New York and parents origins in Montenegro(A rare breed we are Wink)

Please do not single out a particular people to answer a question in the fashion that you did. I would also like to mention that your tone is almost accusatory, It does not seek a cordially receptive response although I will provide one for you. Radical of any religion or race are just that, radical. They do not represent the whole of Islam. They make most of their claims based on loose or incorrect interpretation of the Koran. It's simple as that.
wolfhnd
"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]

Sounds a lot like the Old Testament

And they utterly destroyed all that [was] in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Jos 6:21

The reason that all had to die, it was so the Israelites could have a new homeland. God is a violent dude isn't he.
Carupieara
S3nd K3ys wrote:

All muslims, no, but according to OBL, Islam is the justification for declaring war and attacking the US.

Again, I will show you the truth, in OBL's own words, because you don't seem to get it, that Islam says to convert or die.


Get my point here. If in place of OBL there was the name of a regular Muslim guy, that you might know or something, your post would have been more relevant. That guy is a f--king TERRORIST. If he doesn't quote scriptures and try to manipulate the words in there I'd be surprised.

Quote:
Quote:
Finally, I'd like to ask does being a Muslim make us bad people? I'm tired of the racism that I've to face everyday.

Not unless you're planning on trying to convert everyone to Islam.


Tell me how Christianity spread. Through Missionaries?? And what did they specialize in???

Quote:
Sounds like they want everyone to give up their religion and preach Islam
No ef'n thanks!


I don't think you should worry about that unless you got a special invitation. And just for the record I'd like to ask anyone and everyone - has anyone ever asked you to convert to Islam???


Quote:
There's racism in many aspects of many cultures. It's not just muslims. It especially happens at times like these, or like in WWII against Japanese/German/Italians. And it's not just westerners.


Justification for your own racist views?? You say "it happens in times like these" and I'll tell you why it happens - because of people like you. People who cannot see beyond someone else's race, religion, caste or creed.

ainieas wrote:

So if you want to know about the thinking of a terrorist's mind, try psychology.

Actually you don't have any need to understand the working of a terrorist's mind. A terrorists mind work exactly like yours. What is the difference is that they SHOUT out aloud what is on their mind while you make threads like this. No f-ing difference at all, if you ask me. Next time just shout out aloud that you HATE ALL MUSLIMS AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM DIE MOST HORRIBLY. All those subtle hints in your posts aint reaching too many people out there. Just shout out aloud. Maybe that would take out the inner frustrations in you. Wouldn't make the world a better or safer place but what the heck, right???



BTW, have you thought about renaming your thread to Can anyone (preferrably a Muslim TERRORIST) 'splane this to me?


srijit wrote:

if you want to know what al-queda wants write an email to them and ask them yourself


Seems sanity does prevail.


And just for the record, I'm half Christian and half Muslim. Best of both worlds I say.
lib
S3nd K3ys wrote:
you don't seem to get it, that Islam says to convert or die

Oh man! And you have the gall to tell me that I don't seem to get it?

You repeatedly quote terrorists killing in the name of God (yes, we get the point - terrorists kill in the name of God! Terrorists kill for a lot of stupid reasons, and you should know that, seeing as how you claim to read unbiased news and how you claim to be on top of everything)

However, like most Muslims (and other members too) in this thread have said --
    *You can't ask a peaceful self-respecting Muslim to justify a Muslim terrorist's actions.
    *It depends upon the way you interpret the verses of the Qu'ran.


Lumberjack wrote:
The answer is in your posting "Five Islamic militant groups". They are not muslims, but muslim extremists.

khairulsyahir wrote:
Considering that you're do not understand well about Islam, it's such a lame act to let extremist group's views alone to be your interpretation about Islam.

It's funny, how people tend to hear the bad group of a religion tell about their religion, rather than hearing those who truly understand and practice the Islam's way of life.

valient wrote:
U recieved the reply of I_am_mine.
and y cant we relpy ? there is nuthing in it just a statment of 5 armed group who cal themselves muslims and u compaing it with whole islamic world.

i_am_mine wrote:
First you create a topic, clearly and obviously provoking and mocking muslims, and then you equate muslims with being cowards and terrorists?

And to top it all off, you try to pass it off a decent question.


At this point, I noticed that i_am_mine has already compiled some opinions in this post. Did you read it?

But I'm still going to quote some more:
ainieas wrote:
BTW, you are quoting militants in your posts. The point of their speeches is to get to people up in arms. I don't even consider them as muslims. Not many other muslims do too.

Also not every terrorist is a muslim, not every muslim is a terrorist. So if you want to know about the thinking of a terrorist's mind, try psychology.

valient wrote:
dnt know realy abt wht are the concepts of these terrorist. but u have to clear u'r mind that its strictly prohobited in islam to force sumone (with power) to enter or accept islam.

((second quote)):
if u do then u dnt want to finsh these arguments. in my previous post i said

Quote:
there isnt any thing like this in religion


got it? nothing in our religion like this.


Carupieara wrote:
Get my point here. If in place of OBL there was the name of a regular Muslim guy, that you might know or something, your post would have been more relevant. That guy is a f--king TERRORIST. If he doesn't quote scriptures and try to manipulate the words in there I'd be surprised.

Dread Lord Chaos wrote:
Please do not single out a particular people to answer a question in the fashion that you did.
.
.
Radical of any religion or race are just that, radical. They do not represent the whole of Islam. They make most of their claims based on loose or incorrect interpretation of the Koran. It's simple as that.


Oh, and wolfhnd,
ainieas wrote:
Choosing one's government is not a violation of any of God's law in Islam. Being Muslims we (my family) live in a democratic country and vote for our government.


Right, back to addressing S3nd:
And most users also seem to think you don't have the right attitude to receive an answer. originally, I must admit I thought you did, and that you were genuinely asking for some explanation. However, now even I think you're only reading as much as you want to, and you basically started this thread to blast Islam and how Allah kills.

Arnie wrote:
I don't think muslims -or other believers for that matter- are going to answer your question to this because your attitude is not exactly receptive. This really isn't a question but a cloaked accusation.

((Second post):
My point is this topic has had a potential from its very first post to either 1) become flamewar 2) become an agree-and-being-agreed-to topic.
What I mean is that if nobody contradicts you, you'll get a nice topic of everyone agreeing with eachother and bashing those guys. If somebody does, you get the all vs one flamewar. So I'd say, you'd rather just not make such a topic. It's like virtual back stabbing.

xaluphus wrote:
Or you just want to fight with a muslim ?

earthchild wrote:
S3nd's post is not an honest and open question by any means - it's more along the lines of a verbal attack.

((other post)):
well perhaps instead of asking muslims in general you should ask 'islamic militants'

you do realize there is a difference don't you?

srijit wrote:
lol this topic is just flamebait.

Dread Lord Chaos wrote:
I would also like to mention that your tone is almost accusatory, It does not seek a cordially receptive response although I will provide one for you.

Carupieara wrote:
Justification for your own racist views??

BTW, have you thought about renaming your thread to Can anyone (preferrably a Muslim TERRORIST) 'splane this to me?


-----------------------

At this point of time, I came into the discussion, and you quoted some more terrorists and asked non-militant muslims to explain their actions. Way to go.
xalophus
S3nd K3ys wrote:
All muslims, no, but according to OBL, Islam is the justification for declaring war and attacking the US.

All muslims ? ef'n no ! I'm not the typical mislead uninformed wiseass American !


...
But still look at what that Islamic Muslim scumbag Osama is ef'n doing !!!
I swear I'd bomb the s*** out of these muslim scumbags if I ever have the power.
Oh wait, not All muslims. Remember what I said ? ef'n no !


S3nd K3ys wrote:
I will show you the truth, in OBL's own words, because you don't seem to get it, that Islam says to convert or die.

Ladies and gentlemen !
The truly true truth about Islam - by Osama bin Laden and S3nd K3ys

You really seem to have "gotten it".


S3nd K3ys wrote:
Sounds like they want everyone to give up their religion and preach Islam

Care to clarify, who are you referring to by "they" here ?
Texas Al
Carupieara:
Quote:
And just for the record I'd like to ask anyone and everyone - has anyone ever asked you to convert to Islam???


Nope. In contrast to every single evangelical Christian I've ever tried to be friends with.

Seriously, this is ridiculous. It's like someone writing a post asking all Christians to explain why Pat Robertson speaking favorably of having Hugo Chavez assassinated. Or to explain what's going on in the mind of the latest abortion-clinic bomber. WTF knows what's going on in these nutters' minds?

Don't get me wrong, organized churches of any sort are not a particularly good friend to democracy and free thought IMHO, but it's possible to disagree with them fairly and respectfully; to ask them sincere questions. Like I was trying to do in the now-locked "Questions about Islam" thread.
Texas Al
Heck, even close relatives of Bin Laden don't want to have anything to do with him:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/23/entertainment/e092455S30.DTL
S3nd K3ys
xalophus wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
All muslims, no, but according to OBL, Islam is the justification for declaring war and attacking the US.

All muslims ? ef'n no ! I'm not the typical mislead uninformed wiseass American !


I see your lack of reading skill is getting worse...

S3nd K3ys wrote:
All muslims, no,
rwojick
I think the proper spelling is "'splain"...
rwojick
I'll just bet the base of the Muslim religion is non violent just as the base of the Christian religion is, and it is just the IDIOTS who replace the true with the false and then base their decisions on that FALSE that are causing all of the problems...
S3nd K3ys
rwojick wrote:
I'll just bet the base of the Muslim religion is non violent just as the base of the Christian religion is, and it is just the IDIOTS who replace the true with the false and then base their decisions on that FALSE that are causing all of the problems...


Agreed on both counts.

S3nd K3ys wrote:
Most terrorists are muslims. But most Muslims are not terrorists.
nam_siddharth
In all christian countries, sex is the largest business.

Most of gays are Chritians.

Most of Chritians loose their virginity before their 15.

Almost all Cristians have multiple sex relations like animals.





You must see mirror, before commenting on other's face.

A topic on christians was locked, because it was hurting feelings of Chrirtians. You chritians only know how to comment on others. You have no ability to see about your religion, because you know, you have no reply for the questions which arises in minds of none-christians about your religion.
Texas Al
nam_siddharth wrote:
In all christian countries, sex is the largest business.

Most of gays are Chritians.

Most of Chritians loose their virginity before there 15.

Almost all Cristians has multiple sex relations like animals.


Sigh. Where are all these nympho-Christians? Most of the ones I know are borning conformists who are deeply uncomfortable about sex and brainwashed with traditional gender roles (as God is head of man, man is head of woman, etc.). But they do like to claim to be rebels and open minded and so on.

You are right about their rather entertaining reaction to other religions... if you think they're intolerant of Muslims you ought to see how they react to their ancient enemy, paganism. The fireworks are quite spectacular.

I wasn't the one who locked the "Christianity pros and cons" topic and I won't lock this one because I think such debates are a healthy outlet and it's too bad how everybody is too afraid of each other's religions to offer their frank opinions. But I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone else does decide to lock the thread.
Texas Al
...and before someone locks this bad-boy, let me add:

God is watching over us. But the cynical manipulative priests and politicians who have their feet on our necks weren't put there by God. They just pretend they were, and centuries after centuries the common people believe them, give them their money, and go to war for them. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, everyone.

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you which raise more questions than answers, to force you to think for yourself.
tidruG
Texas Al wrote:
...and before someone locks this bad-boy, let me add:

God is watching over us. But the cynical manipulative priests and politicians who have their feet on our necks weren't put there by God. They just pretend they were, and centuries after centuries the common people believe them, give them their money, and go to war for them. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, everyone.

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you which raise more questions than answers, to force you to think for yourself.

Touché
Excellent post.
bellairebpa
S3nd K3ys wrote:


Most terrorists are muslims. But most Muslims are not terrorists. I know there is a huge difference. But a Muslim would have more insight to where the belief might come from then I would. I'm sure the terrorists are trying to justify their actions/beliefs with the rest of the muslim world, so I wondered how.




So I was wondering -and I don't mean to attack you, but I just had a debate about this with my dad, and mind you, I was attempting to justify the US sponsored elections- what exactly constitutes a terrorist? My understanding of the noun is someone who uses terror/fear as a political weapon. (To this my father replied) In that sense of the word, wouldn't the United States itself be considered a "terrorist" in the Iraqi people's eyes? I didn't know what to say.

He went on to say:

Sure, to you the installment of a democracy would seem great after Saddam's regime, but to Iraqis who are used to (or even liked) the previous government, wouldn't the intrusion of the United States make the US appear the terrorists? After all, Iraq is sovereign nation (or was).

iono. I gave up the converstion afterwards.

oh, and daddy's not anti-US, he just refutes everything i say/believe.
xalophus
S3nd K3ys wrote:
xalophus wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
All muslims, no, but according to OBL, Islam is the justification for declaring war and attacking the US.

All muslims ? ef'n no ! I'm not the typical mislead uninformed wiseass American !


I see your lack of reading skill is getting worse...

S3nd K3ys wrote:
All muslims, no,


I see your lack of comprehension is still as bad as it has always been ...

That was a satire

Apparently large annoying fonts are necessary to get through to people here.
zebrabongo
Texas Al wrote:

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you which raise more questions than answers, to force you to think for yourself.


Best quote I've heard in a long time.

Hate to be a Johnny-come-lately, but I think I'll poke fun of this topic anyway.

"Can anyone (preferrably a Christian-American) 'splane this to me? http://www.kkk.com/" Very Happy
S3nd K3ys
zebrabongo wrote:
Texas Al wrote:

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you which raise more questions than answers, to force you to think for yourself.


Best quote I've heard in a long time.

Hate to be a Johnny-come-lately, but I think I'll poke fun of this topic anyway.

"Can anyone (preferrably a Christian-American) 'splane this to me? http://www.kkk.com/" Very Happy


Simple.

An ever shrinking (minority) group of Americans believe:

Quote:
Love the Diversity of God's Creation

Practice Racial Integrity

Don't Race Mix



The KKK has moved away from harsh racist beliefs/actions and has instead emphasized their "love of the white race." The number of members is currently somewhere around 2,000 to 5,000.

The KKK claims that they are not racist, but rather they are "racialist." This means that they do not necessarily hate any one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have "White pride."
i_am_mine
Quote:
An ever shrinking (minority) group of Americans believe:

Quote:
Love the Diversity of God's Creation

Practice Racial Integrity

Don't Race Mix



The KKK has moved away from harsh racist beliefs/actions and has instead emphasized their "love of the white race." The number of members is currently somewhere around 2,000 to 5,000.

The KKK claims that they are not racist, but rather they are "racialist." This means that they do not necessarily hate any one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have "White pride."


They are not "racist" but "racialist" , hahah, thats the most funniest post I've read in a while, and I'm not being sarcastic, "they do not hate and one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have White pride"? geez you crackin me up man.

Lets do a little racialist, white pride, barney the dinosaur song now ( mind you barney is no longer Purple but white with blue eyes and Yellowish fur ) :
" I wuv yoouuu , yoouuu wuv me, we're a happy white ku klux famiiveee "
nam_siddharth
You have proud of being white?
You follow a religion, originated by an asian.

Never forget, Chirst was asian. None of ur own religion are alive today.
Are you still proud of being white christian?
Texas Al
Nothing wrong with being proud of who you are. I'm proud to be white and European. I show this pride by behaving myself in a civilized and non-aggressive manner, and opposing policies and ideologies that are aggressive, dishonorable, or just plain stupid.

I'm secure enough in my worth that I don't begrudge asian, arabic, black, hispanic, indian, native american, aboriginal, or any other people their racial pride. I'm also secure enough in my worth that I don't feel the need to hang out only with my own ethnic group. I'm happy to peacefully and profitably coexist with anybody who is willing to do the same.

I also recognize the right of people who do want to separate themselves from other ethnic groups provided that they respect certain basic rights, including the right of people to not participate against their will, and the right of their neighbors to be free from aggression and exploitation.

I don't care how "loving" the KKK now claims to be in this age of spin that we inhabit. The KKK's violent history shows that it cannot be trusted, and has forfeited any legitimacy it may have ever had as a representative of its race. Ditto Nazis. Ditto Al Quaeda. Ditto the Milosevic regime. Ditto Chechen rebels.
gonzo
allah calls himself a master and NOT a loving father. He expects obediant slaves. There really isn't a clearly defined notion of "free will" in islam.


there's your major problem.


God, on the other hand, releaves himself to be a patient and ever loving, compassionate Father who wants you to enter into an intimate relationship with Him. He essenatially bends over backwards to help you foster- and develop this relationship. While God is just, he is also merciful. God's mystery continues to unfold in the revelation of his trinity. An interesting reflection is on how "God humbles himself" and not only in the person of Jesus, sharing two natures.

God allows for freewill, for this is our dignity. Our value is found in being made in his image and likeness and from this flows our loveability. Similarly this is why we're expected to love one another.
Texas Al
Except for fags, atheists, and "feminazis" of course. God hates those.
S3nd K3ys
i_am_mine wrote:
Quote:
An ever shrinking (minority) group of Americans believe:

Quote:
Love the Diversity of God's Creation

Practice Racial Integrity

Don't Race Mix



The KKK has moved away from harsh racist beliefs/actions and has instead emphasized their "love of the white race." The number of members is currently somewhere around 2,000 to 5,000.

The KKK claims that they are not racist, but rather they are "racialist." This means that they do not necessarily hate any one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have "White pride."


They are not "racist" but "racialist" , hahah, thats the most funniest post I've read in a while, and I'm not being sarcastic, "they do not hate and one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have White pride"? geez you crackin me up man.

Lets do a little racialist, white pride, barney the dinosaur song now ( mind you barney is no longer Purple but white with blue eyes and Yellowish fur ) :
" I wuv yoouuu , yoouuu wuv me, we're a happy white ku klux famiiveee "


Again you failed in the reading and comprehension portion of the test...

I clearly stated that they claim they are racialist, not racist. Please go back and take a refresher course.

S3nd K3ys wrote:
The KKK claims that they are not racist, but rather they are "racialist."
i_am_mine
Again you make point out a non-existant comprehension problem ( perhaps you stare too much at the mirror? )


Quote:
They are not "racist" but "racialist" , hahah, thats the most funniest post I've read in a while, and I'm not being sarcastic, "they do not hate and one particular race based on skin color, but they love the White race and have White pride"? geez you crackin me up man.

Lets do a little racialist, white pride, barney the dinosaur song now ( mind you barney is no longer Purple but white with blue eyes and Yellowish fur ) :
" I wuv yoouuu , yoouuu wuv me, we're a happy white ku klux famiiveee "


Comprehend-O ?

Wait.

Thats not politically correct grammar.

Excusez-moi.

That too.

Laughing
gonzo
Quote:

God abhors sin, not sinners.

homosexuality is evil
atheism is evil
fascist feminism is evil


Perhaps. But I'll wait to hear it from Him, not you.

So far, He's only ever told me one thing, and I've been following the orders I was given ever since.
i_am_mine
gonzo wrote:
Quote:
homosexuality is evil
atheism is evil
fascist feminism is evil


I'm shocked.
Yet it was to be expected.
gonzo
i_am_mine wrote:
gonzo wrote:
Quote:
homosexuality is evil
atheism is evil
fascist feminism is evil


I'm shocked.
Yet it was to be expected.


YOU are shocked? rampant homosexual activity is scandalous. There must be something good in you somewhere.
i_am_mine
Muhaha(TM) . Some good in ME?
So if I don't hate homosexuals or consider homosexuality evil then I am a bad..bad man ( evil ) ?

Heh heh.

Funny.

!IMPORTANT: Muhaha (TM) are Copyright
© and Registered ® Trademarks Of Evil Inc. All rights reversed.All wrongs also reversed.

©,® Evil Inc.,2006.

All Evil Copyright Lawsuits Will Fall Under Florida Jurisdiction.Homosexuals, Feminists,Atheists and Arabs Will Not Be Granted The Right To A Free Trial.May You Burn In Eternal Hell.

Thank You.Customer Care:1-800-BURN
Texas Al
i_am_mine wrote:
Muhaha(TM) . Some good in ME?
So if I don't hate homosexuals or consider homosexuality evil than I am a bad..bad man ( evil ) ?


Who knows? But one thing is for sure. S3nd and gonzo will now assume you're one of them bleeding-heart liberals. Everything is always very clear and simple in their make-believe world. Just kick enough ass, wave enough flags, hate enough people that don't, and everything will take care of itself.
i_am_mine
Texas Al wrote:
i_am_mine wrote:
Muhaha(TM) . Some good in ME?
So if I don't hate homosexuals or consider homosexuality evil than I am a bad..bad man ( evil ) ?


Who knows? But one thing is for sure. S3nd and gonzo will now assume you're one of them bleeding-heart liberals. Everything is always very clear and simple in their make-believe world. Just kick enough ***, wave enough flags, hate enough people that don't, and everything will take care of itself.


No Texas AI , you see Gonzo has been sent by God ( i.e., persons such as you and me should be very.....very scared ).We are wrong by default.

Quote:

So far, He's only ever told me one thing, and I've been following the orders I was given ever since.


Furthermore since we believe that Feminists, Homosexuals, Atheists and people of other faiths should be given Equal Rights, we are Sinners*.

Anyone who holds views other than those of s3nd is automatically one or more of the below:
1.Evil
2.Terrorist
3.Suicide Bomber
4.Islamic Terrorist/Conspirator
5.**shole
6.F'd up
7.Liberal
8.Anti-God/Religion
9.@#$@#!
10.$%GD@#$

And so on and so forth.

The stupidity is mind boggling.


Not to mention Hilarious.




________________________________________________

* Trademark and Copyright Authorisation Pending.

Evil Inc.,
Promoting Equal Rights
And Democracy
Since January 4,2006.
Texas Al
Actually, it's important not to mischaracterize the people you're arguing with. There's plenty of valid stuff to slam them on, why resort to straw-man arguments?

To his credit, S3nd has not really been Bible-thumping. He clearly prefers the *cultural* influence of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and I can't say I blame him... I just disagree on when Judeo-Christian values become too much of a good thing. I disagree more with the black-and-white way of looking at the world than with any individual point he makes. Nor do I think you're right about him being stupid... just stubborn, emotional, and undiplomatic.

At the same time I'm writing this, I'm in a huge email war with several friends over whether humans are somehow evil for trying to control nature. In that argument I'm weighing in on the human side because the tree-hugging side is not making any sense. Where I see bullshit I call it, and I don't care who the bullshit is coming from.
i_am_mine
Texas AI wrote:
Actually, it's important not to mischaracterize the people you're arguing with. There's plenty of valid stuff to slam them on, why resort to straw-man arguments?


I agree.

But if you stay on these threads long enough you'll see what I mean.

To the credit of the Evil people on these thread that believe in Equal rights, we refrain from the *asterix words, we use non-biased news sources, ordinary font sizes, and try our best to overlook personal swipes made at us by persons who cannot find a valid argument to further their....whatever it is.We also tend to refrain from childish behaviour and violent graphics, although we reply in kind.We also do not resort to patting each other on the back.

We also take great pride in having individual opinions, and I have agreed with some of s3nd's ( Mexico Border Dispute ).

And I also agree with you on the Tree Hugging there.

Though its a shame that we have no solution to Nuclear waste disposal ( refer: Yakka Mountain ) and yet intensive lobbying ensures large scale Nuclear Energy Complexes.
somnific
send keys is an idiot.
horseatingweeds
Hey, i_am_mine, how do you make those copy right and trade mark symbols? I want to use those while I’m spewing our mindless banter. Laughing
i_am_mine
Well © and ® are special characters, and some Linux browsers have a text>insert special character option.

On windows, I don't know about browser options.

But you can always just Copy>Paste the symbol from my post (or your own once you post it ).

Or you could save it in notepad and use it when you need it.

Most Document Apps. such OpenOffice and Word have the insert special character option, but thats just too much work.
somnific
are you using windows , horse ?

go to start/programs/accessories/system tools/character map

a list of characters for all your installed fonts , and the keystrokes to type them...

such as alt + 0169
i_am_mine
aah.

didn't know that.
amirkpe
they think that the leader must select by the god himself . and maybe they think that god has selected them as leader and nobody have the right to protest them . there's a good example in iran . i'll discuss it in a new post later.
tidruG
somnific wrote:
send keys is an idiot.

Let's keep it clean in here. Please do not flame or act the troll... posts like these will get the thread locked. If you want to offer your opinion on anything, please do it with tact and do it politely.
S3nd K3ys
tidruG wrote:
somnific wrote:
send keys is an idiot.

Let's keep it clean in here. Please do not flame or act the troll... posts like these will get the thread locked. If you want to offer your opinion on anything, please do it with tact and do it politely.


Yeah, there's a lot of that going around by this guy... I think deep down inside he's in love with me.

somnific wrote:
seems this 'no spin' rhetoric is popular with both s3ndk3ys , and bill....maybe they're the same piece of shit ?


somnific wrote:
but s3ndk3ys is such a relentless nazi , i had to let loose.


somnific wrote:
you idiots deserve everything you get.


somnific wrote:
pfffff , your perception has been so diluted you probably think it correct to refer to them as native americans


somnific wrote:
so you're a pedant , as well as a moron
an infuriating combination


somnific wrote:
yep, global hegemony , the CIA , people like s3ndk3ys breeding , etc , you dont really need me to list out atrocities accountable to the united states of america.


somnific wrote:
haha....really , dyk3n3ss and other posters of your ilk make me laugh with your absolute fascism......


somnific wrote:
thats a nice collection of headlines , dyk3n3ss....but are you saying that american citizens dont commit crimes ? YOU **** MORON.


somnific wrote:
but did you know that s3nd k3ys is an anagram for dyk3n3ss ?


somnific wrote:
send keys is an idiot.


Talk about obsessed and rent free!



tidruG
I've already addressed the issue, though I will not be providing any details about that. Sorry for the inconvenience to other members caused by my interruption, and also apologies for disrupting the flow of the discussion.
S3nd K3ys wrote:
tidruG wrote:
somnific wrote:
send keys is an idiot.

Let's keep it clean in here. Please do not flame or act the troll... posts like these will get the thread locked. If you want to offer your opinion on anything, please do it with tact and do it politely.


Yeah, there's a lot of that going around by this guy... I think deep down inside he's in love with me.

somnific wrote:
seems this 'no spin' rhetoric is popular with both s3ndk3ys , and bill....maybe they're the same piece of shit ?


somnific wrote:
but s3ndk3ys is such a relentless nazi , i had to let loose.


somnific wrote:
you idiots deserve everything you get.


somnific wrote:
pfffff , your perception has been so diluted you probably think it correct to refer to them as native americans


somnific wrote:
so you're a pedant , as well as a moron
an infuriating combination


somnific wrote:
yep, global hegemony , the CIA , people like s3ndk3ys breeding , etc , you dont really need me to list out atrocities accountable to the united states of america.


somnific wrote:
haha....really , dyk3n3ss and other posters of your ilk make me laugh with your absolute fascism......


somnific wrote:
thats a nice collection of headlines , dyk3n3ss....but are you saying that american citizens dont commit crimes ? YOU **** MORON.


somnific wrote:
but did you know that s3nd k3ys is an anagram for dyk3n3ss ?


somnific wrote:
send keys is an idiot.


Talk about obsessed and rent free!



i_am_mine
If thats the definition, then I'd say <sarcasm> a great many people are in love with you </sarcasm>

What goes around comes around.And vice versa.

Looking at it from a moderators point of view, you have no reason to lock the post or ban the member.Although I personally suggest against the use of such flame prone language, nothing was done when...

Quote s3nd k3ys:

" How Ef'd Up Are you? " ( eff you see kay'd? )

" *sshole "

amongst others.

Not to mention threads started to provoke muslims ( lets not go there )

In this case, the worst used was "shit".

I leave you to decide what a balanced decision would be.
horseatingweeds
somnific wrote:
are you using windows , horse ?

go to start/programs/accessories/system tools/character map

a list of characters for all your installed fonts , and the keystrokes to type them...

such as alt + 0169


CHARACTER MAP, I wondered were that thing was.
Texas Al
Hey, S3nd. Want to finally get an answer to your original question?

Read this article. It's a long one, but if your question truly was sincere rather than a troll, you'll be eager to read it. It pulls no punches, and yet doesn't oversimplify.

I'm curious what other people's analysis of this article is also. Particularly those who live in the Middle East.
gonzo
Texas Al wrote:

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you


So God can leave a written word, but we should take it on your stunning authority that the Bible isn't to be trusted?

gotcha
Texas Al
gonzo wrote:
Texas Al wrote:

God is real, and he has deliberately left books for you


So God can leave a written word, but we should take it on your stunning authority that the Bible isn't to be trusted?

gotcha


I don't care whose authority you take what on, but would recommend you follow your own inner authority. Certainly not mine.

Would you have me take it on your stunning authority that every word in the Bible is literally true? And where it's not clear what the Bible means, should I take it on your stunning authority which way to interpret it?

Gotcha back at ya.
blackheart
S3nd K3ys wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10440377/from/RL.2/

MSNBC wrote:
CAIRO, Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?

Anyone?

It's truly amazing. Especially considering how they extended polling because of such high voter turnout.


Um, can I just point out AGAIN, that one has all the right to have an opinion on Islamic political leaders, but not to use this as a generalisation/means to slander all "Muslims".

I mean, immagine what I could say about Americans looking at Bush? Or how about Clinton? You must all go out and cheat on your wives quite regularly, it's part of American culture isn't it?
horseatingweeds
blackheart wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10440377/from/RL.2/

MSNBC wrote:
CAIRO, Egypt Five Islamic militant groups are calling this week's election in Iraq a "satanic project."
In a joint statement released today the groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq, said the election violates God's law.


Can someone explain how the freedom to choose one's governing body is a violation of ANY God that is peaceful and just?

Anyone?

It's truly amazing. Especially considering how they extended polling because of such high voter turnout.


Um, can I just point out AGAIN, that one has all the right to have an opinion on Islamic political leaders, but not to use this as a generalisation/means to slander all "Muslims".

I mean, immagine what I could say about Americans looking at Bush? Or how about Clinton? You must all go out and cheat on your wives quite regularly, it's part of American culture isn't it?


Now now, that depends on your definition of cheating on your wife.
Texas Al
Well, Clinton's definition of cheating on your wife I'm guessing is something like Michael Jackson's definition of pederastry.
nealio1000
Alah is suppost to have alot of mercy...
Soulfire
How many Christians fly airplanes into buildings? Not as many as the muslims (well, extremists who "fight" for Islam). That's not to say there aren't Christian extremists, but there are FAR more muslim extremists.
Jeslyn
This thread is generalizing ignorant-induced bullshit. End.
S3nd K3ys
Presumably, non-Muslims who equate Islam with peace and tolerance are simply ignorant. Muslim leaders, however, who do so are knowingly saying whatever is expedient for the furtherance of Islam’s goal of world dominion. They know many verses like this in the Qur’an: “When you meet the unbelievers, then it is smiting of the necks [strike off their heads]….” (Surah 47:4).

All 19 terrorists who attacked America on 9/11 were devout Muslims acting “in the name of Allah.”

Muhammad said there could be only one religion in the world. He wiped out the Jews in Arabia and no Jew is allowed there today. In Saudi Arabia only a Muslim may be a citizen; no non-Muslim place of worship may be built and non-Islamic worship is forbidden, even in the sanctity of one’s home.

I challenge anyone to give even one example of where Islam has ever brought peace and tolerance. There are none. There are more revolutions, assassinations and terrorism in Muslim countries than in all the rest of the world, Muslim against Muslim. From 1948 to 1973 there were 80 revolutions in the Islamic world, 30 of them successful, including the murder of 22 heads of state.

Muhammad claimed that Allah had commanded him to “fight against all people until all confess there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” Islam must take over the world and that includes America. Abdulrahman Alamoudi, director of the American Muslim Council, told a conference of the Islamic Association for Palestine, “The United States will become a Muslim country, even if it takes 100 years.”

Do you think they'll try to do it peacefully?
Jeslyn
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Presumably, non-Muslims who equate Islam with peace and tolerance are simply ignorant. Muslim leaders, however, who do so are knowingly saying whatever is expedient for the furtherance of Islam’s goal of world dominion. They know many verses like this in the Qur’an: “When you meet the unbelievers, then it is smiting of the necks [strike off their heads]….” (Surah 47:4).

All 19 terrorists who attacked America on 9/11 were devout Muslims acting “in the name of Allah.”

Muhammad said there could be only one religion in the world. He wiped out the Jews in Arabia and no Jew is allowed there today. In Saudi Arabia only a Muslim may be a citizen; no non-Muslim place of worship may be built and non-Islamic worship is forbidden, even in the sanctity of one’s home.

I challenge anyone to give even one example of where Islam has ever brought peace and tolerance. There are none. There are more revolutions, assassinations and terrorism in Muslim countries than in all the rest of the world, Muslim against Muslim. From 1948 to 1973 there were 80 revolutions in the Islamic world, 30 of them successful, including the murder of 22 heads of state.

Muhammad claimed that Allah had commanded him to “fight against all people until all confess there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” Islam must take over the world and that includes America. Abdulrahman Alamoudi, director of the American Muslim Council, told a conference of the Islamic Association for Palestine, “The United States will become a Muslim country, even if it takes 100 years.”

Do you think they'll try to do it peacefully?


You should atleast link where you directly copied all your information from. plagiarizing , even now, is still frowned upon.

http://www.moriel.org/israel/islam_question.htm

http://www.learnthebible.org/Islam%20-%20Peace%20&%20Tolerance.htm
khairulsyahir
Gosh! I posted on this thread some times ago, and came back months later now to see that it's still on with s3nd k3ys still with his quest to find an answer to his question which i believe, was already there but he's just too blind to see it or too foolish to block his sight from it, Hah... sigh again.

A little explanation, though, on the verse of Qur'an you quoted s3nd k3ys.
Quote:
“When you meet the unbelievers, then it is smiting of the necks [strike off their heads]….” (Surah 47:4)


Please, please for how many times I've lost count of it, understand and do a little research first before you write your own analysis for it! This is a divine message, for God's sake. That verse means in the time of war, where the unbelievers strike against Islam. Even that, in Islam muslims are prohibited from killing youngsters, elders and women and those who stays in worshipping houses such as the church even during war. In times of peace, muslims are told to even help the unbelievers if their needs are present, provided that they do not pose threat to Islam. We are told to provide shelter for them if they have none, and be nice and kind to them. See what happened to that female reporter who was captured in the Middle East, how nice was her treated. And what did the soldiers in the Abu Ghraib prison did? Putting shit all over the prisoner's body? Ask yourself, man!

Please, Al-Quran is the words of Allah, and they are recited to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) by the angel Gabriel. He then quickly memorises it and spreaded it to his fellow believers and unbelievers, and those believers soon in turn memorises the words. Over time after the Prophet Muhammad's death, many of those who memorises the verses were killed during war, so the caliph at that time took the initiative to compile the verses, and thus the Qur'an today. Al-Qur'an's contents are divided into two, one that can be directly understood and one that require clarification by the prophet. And it seems that you, s3nd k3ys, can't even understand the verse that can be undertood directly, because you're just lazy enough to do a little more reading. It's obvious, you're intentions aren't sincere. I can only hope you'll cleanse your heart.
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