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Illegal Downloading, Serious Discussion





lockwolf
I want this to be kind of a serious discussion not an unintellegent "ZOMFG I DL SHIZ ALL TEH TIME" kind of one. What do you think of Illegal Downloading? Its a really big topic to discuss but its totally real.

I think Illegal Downloads are abused but way too common nowadays. It seems like that if its software, you can find it. Also, its way too hard to get to work on the torrent end of things. With all the Leachers out there, its just lame!
ocalhoun
Yes, it is possible to download almost anything, used to do it a lot, got maya, photoshop, bryce 5, widows xp, premeire.
(for legal purposes: that was a lie)
However, I don't do that anymore: I use Linux.
asmiller08
Software downloading and piracy has grown to a point where software developers have to expect that it will happen. But if there was some way to stop all illegal downloading, how much of the stuff that was downloaded before would be bought instead? If you use a pirated version of 3ds, would you really spend $3000 if you wern't able to download it? I doubt it. If you're that serious about 3d modelling, chances are you have allready bought a copy of the retail version.
izcool
The people who really should be punished are the people who actually share the files for others to download. I get odd songs here and there from AltaVista's Audio Search (Wink) instead of using a filesharing program, like how I used to do it. I'm trying to get away from it since it's just plain wrong.

- Mike.
lockwolf
asmiller08 wrote:
If you use a pirated version of 3ds, would you really spend $3000 if you wern't able to download it? I doubt it.


Yeah, I agree with that. I really think that some programs are way overpriced like 3Ds and Maya but then again they have a reason for being $3000+, mainly because they don't want every person to buy it and leave it sitting in a box in their room.

Also a thing I would like to point out, software being leaked like Windows Vista. I know that its kinda dumb to be out there but its kinda hard to get this in the first place unless your a developer.
Hobbit
Some programs are over priced I agree, but it takes years to develop very good software.

Sometimes I think it's THEIR fault, why don't the developers do something about the cracks. If you google adobe photoshop cracks you'll find some in the first or second page. Is it legal to set up these pages or what? Because they should have put a stop to them a long time ago.
l4zy
Illegal music download is just wrong, even i used to do it in the past, but not any more.... i rather go out and buy the CDs..
elekis
lots of things.

first : in disk industry they aren't 'music' word, even not letter and that lots of poeple forgot, the main goal of industry is to make money only money and nothing else. just look fame academy or boys band . can we really called that music.

just a exemple, this year all industry are ok to pass only accoustic music, (speak only for french country) between live cd, james blunt (only accoustic) etc...etc... last year it's was rock . just look tv (in france) and you see all major has a music style and this year in France it's accoustic., goodby diversical music and culture hello format brain

second thing peer-to-peer do not destroy artist it's (may be) destroy major and soms study prove that is false (ok some prove the opposing but all proved the opposed is commendited by major)

in fact , I think peer-to peer make lots of business (mp3, flash memory,....) and make lots of things for artist and I would agree to pay a little money to have free donload. but that music industry won't can never do that for one reason , there aren't the control on the p2p . what industry want, all poeple buys that cd's right now at this time and stupid I am if I don't like the music (fame academy exemple).

what peer to peer do, try the music and if you like buy cd's or better go see the artist in concert you to award the artist.


peer to peer never kill artist but may be kill music industry and that , I don't give a F****.

oh and other thing the difference between illegal download and legal download is just a controverse text. nothing else.


(sorry for bad english)
a+++
Boles Roor
Even if it's illegal, it's usefull. I always first download albums from artists before I buy them. I want to know if they're good or not. Same goes for programs. i've bought Photoshop CS a few months ago, but not before I played about with it. Same goes for CS2, just I don't like that. :p

Ofcourse, not everyone uses it like that. (neither do I all the time).
sibbahz
I dont download often but in the past i have downloaded a few tracks by an artist, decided i liked the artist and bought an album.
I also understand why some students may download very expensive software for doing school work on. No one will pay thousands to do their homework.
Eyre
eh...I'm ok with it. Except music, unless the artist put it on the internet and meant for it to be free i don't think it should be downloaded. Programs like photoshop, maya, etc. are kinda different. Yes, the developers made them so much money for a reason, but some people that can never afford those things in a lifetime. If the downloader is not making any profit off the program being used, what's the point of getting in trouble for it?
OnlyOneLife
I use download for stuff like music, and sotfware. Once I buy my computer, I dont' pay for software or music. It's just simply the cost of the computer... everything else is free.
Freezon
In my opinion, it is good and bad.

First off, download music is an ok thing. Why? Because you get a taste of the artist and their style, instead of blowing money on an artist you haven't heard much of. I myself download a few songs from a artist I think might be good. THEN I go buy the CD if I like it. Therefore, either way, they don't lose money through me. If the artist sucks, I delete the songs and all is well.

Second, software. When you think about it, software piracy is a huge issue. Many companies come up with genius ways of trying to keep people from pirating software, like using unique keys, not generated keys. However, the many groups of crackers and coders out there will find a way to bypass the registration by making a "Keygen" or "Crack" for the program to get it free. Software creators spend much time on their software, and for what, to get pirated? I guess, but that is just the way the world is.
Donutey
Open source is the solution for filesharing Rolling Eyes

The Gimp = Photoshop
OpenOffice = Microsoft Office
GAIM = AIM
Firefox = IE
Linux = Windows

IDK, think about all that open source programs have been able to do, only without a whole lot of $$, I think the payout of donating $10 to some opensource program has a lot greater payout than $100 for windows xp...
n0obie4life
Donutey wrote:
Open source is the solution for filesharing Rolling Eyes


May I know when can we get Open Source music?
KHO
I know people that download stuff illegally, but only for necssity, sure you can say, "nothing computers is a necessity" but for doing varius things w/ programming, using photoshop, all that stuff, then ues it is. But as soon as "he" gets money, "he" will pay for them.

Legal: I'm not the person l'm talking about Neutral, nor do l even know him Neutral
elekis
n0obie4life wrote:
Donutey wrote:
Open source is the solution for filesharing Rolling Eyes


May I know when can we get Open Source music?

tht's exist , it's called commons creative

http://www.jamendo.com/?domain=com

and someone are good
davmcmul
lol, speaking of downloading....

personally, i prefer to buy the cd, i won't bother justifying that here, cos some great arguments have been put forward already, but. even though, as soon as i buy the cd, i rip it, put the music on my player, and never touch the cd again....

i am now afraid to buy cds, because SONY have started putting virii (plural of virus...) on their cds... seriously, if you insert a sony cd, and agree with the end user agreement, then it will install stuff on your computer which creates security holes!!! its much safer to download Wink
KungFuChris
First of all, I'd just like to say that illegal downloads is just that... illegal - and also, therefore wrong.

Have I done it?
Yes.

Would I do it again?
Most likely.

I guess that makes me a criminal.

However, I can justify my own actions to some extent. The items I've downloaded I would or could never buy. I have not, and will not use these items for any kind of gain, monetary or otherwise. Their use is restricted to some playing around with for personal use. At best I guess you could say that I gain experience in using the programs, but nothing I can officially state.

Therefore, I don't believe that I am personally causing loss to the company involved. In fact, it is more likely that if ever I did find myself in a position whereby I could afford and required something for business purposes, I would most likely fork out for one of the programs I had downloaded illegally, as it would be with this I would be most familiar.

I make no excuses, though. It still doesn't make it 'right'.
mOOnGuardian
Software downloading and piracy has grown to a point where software developers have to expect that it will happen. But if there was some way to stop all illegal downloading, how much of the stuff that was downloaded before would be bought instead? If you use a pirated version of cds, would you really spend $3000 if you wern't able to download it? I doubt it. If you're that serious about 3d modelling, chances are you have allready bought a copy of the retail version.
KungFuChris
asmiller08 wrote:
Software downloading and piracy has grown to a point where software developers have to expect that it will happen. But if there was some way to stop all illegal downloading, how much of the stuff that was downloaded before would be bought instead? If you use a pirated version of 3ds, would you really spend $3000 if you wern't able to download it? I doubt it. If you're that serious about 3d modelling, chances are you have allready bought a copy of the retail version.


mOOnGuardian wrote:
Software downloading and piracy has grown to a point where software developers have to expect that it will happen. But if there was some way to stop all illegal downloading, how much of the stuff that was downloaded before would be bought instead? If you use a pirated version of 3ds, would you really spend $3000 if you wern't able to download it? I doubt it. If you're that serious about 3d modelling, chances are you have allready bought a copy of the retail version.


Shocked

I suddenly got a strange feeling of déja vu there.
S3nd K3ys
Totally agree. As a part-time software developer I understand how frustrating it is to have your stuff stolen.

It's hard to make a general rule that includes/excludes personal files that one has ownership to vs files that have been pirated.
Cridiron
If I was a software developer, I'd make everything I created open source.
Aiz
Cridiron wrote:
If I was a software developer, I'd make everything I created open source.


It's not that simple though. Sure it would be great for everything to be open source. But it's just like resturants not telling other people their recipes. Those in the software business do it for a living, and making it open source sometimes is just not possible since very little people donate, even if it's a very good software. I doubt if you really got into software developing that you would still say the same.

As for piracy itself. it's like drugs, you can try to step it out, but as long as there are selfish people, as there will always be, there will be piracy one way or another.

That does not mean that measures should not be taken, but rather, I just think the direction and the targets of the "regulations" are going nowhere <.<;; I mean have any of the cd copy protections stopped anyone from using a downloaded software, maybe, but that would just be a small percentage of the people. Is it really worth the investment?
kansloos
the prices of certain software is very high.
to buy everything you need a few times and then to never look at it again.
Is very expensive, so Illegal downloading can save you some money.
plus it's easier to steal software from the internet then out of a shop
ee82hl
The developer and publisher needs the money to come out with new products and therefore driving new technology and economics.

In short term, maybe you don't see any damage. But considering long term, if illegal download carries on and increase, the whole of any industry that can be duplicated will be crash, and affect the economy of the world.

Sounds serious ain't it....Why talking about saving the nature and other ' good will' initiative when you are stealing software and music from others.
Talk2Tom11
I believe that even if there as no pirating of software, people would not buy it at the price it is today. I agree that downloading is wrong but some of the prices are outrages.
I design software myself and would hate to take sooo much time in making it and then watch it get traded around on the internet. Obviously these people have never created something by themselve and worked really hard on it. But on the other side I make sure that my software is a reasonable price for the targeted group that I will be selling it to.
In the end i feel that both sides to make a change. And why can't these big companies stop downloading. Don't they have smart hackers that can take down some of these networks. Hopefully someday it can all go back to people doing things legally. But the way it looks now... it seems it will never get to be that way.
yokonative
i dotn think illeghal downlaoding is that big of a problem. not in the sence is not a big deal, but its not hurting the industries that much. yes, some sales have gone down but you havent seen any large dramatic change.

like the music, people buy the cd's ALL the time and yet people continue to download them. the music industrie hasent been hurting that bad from ti all and for the most part, most people buy the cd;s for reaosns like, they want the cd, not a cd-r, they dont know how to download music, they dont want to rick anything. i know how it is illegal and understand the legality problems..how ever, then you get to software

see, im a big web design, software programming, and other computer sciences, NUT. i love to learn and I like to use the tools that are out there. However, Macromedia Stidio 8 costs 1000 dollars..do i , a junior in high school have that kind of money? no way, same goes with adobe, and any other major software tools used in the cumpter world. things cost too much and I am unable to learn. Knowing how to used the different oftware gives me an adge in the business world, allowing me to be able to have a great deal of epirence in knwong how to utilize and use the software to my best ability..

i just belive theze things have no business being so expensive. i want to learn and in this day and age, knowledge is becoming free, and I cannot wait till the day where these kinds of tngs become free,
doug hines
Hobbit wrote:
Some programs are over priced I agree, but it takes years to develop very good software.

Sometimes I think it's THEIR fault, why don't the developers do something about the cracks. If you google adobe photoshop cracks you'll find some in the first or second page. Is it legal to set up these pages or what? Because they should have put a stop to them a long time ago.


Let's take a look at maya
Over the years they have made not significant changes to the program itself. All they have done is add features plugins and scripts. However, even after release of these "new programs" the old versions still hold at 2k-3k dollars versus the "brand new program" which retails for 4k-5k dollars.

now.. the web is an infinite place. some places it is illegal, and some places it is not illegal to set them up. it depends on where you are in the world

i see pirating of these types of program sto beneficial to the developers. the 3D cg movie/game industry is growing. the more people that learn their software through piracy means that they will get hired into companies that will buy their software legit for their outrageous prices. yes, it's wrong, but the companies (like alias) are not going to be as strict as the music industry because in the long run, they make their money back
Goatmonkey
I like Torrent even though I do not use Bittorent for illegal activity.
darklighter
I'm a real downloader. I know it is wrong, and that it is some kind of stealing, but i can't help it. Downloading songs, movies and programs is way to easy these days. I download songs, programs, series and movies, but i don't realise that i am stealing it. Illigal downloading is just to easy and free, so i think i will just stay on downloading instead of bying. Very Happy
lineagetoday
i second that!!

Software is becomming very very expensive and i'ts part of the developers fault for making their software cost so much!! But I can't blame them because they lose lots of money from piracy..

As long as software that is downloaded stays private and to yourself I dont' see it as stealing.. more like try before you buy type thing and when you do use it for work then Buy it!!
Ohsakm
I know that download music, films, programs, ..... it's illegal, but if you want to have that you have to download illegal things.

actors, singers, ...... earn a lot of money, so if you download something illegal it doesn't matter, but too many people do this and they lose a lot of money too, but people who doesn't have enought money to buy it have to get it from internet.

it is impossible that nobody download illegal things, all people do it, me too, but i don't feel bad doing it, because i think: "why you shouldn't download illegal things if people who work in it earn a lot of money and you haven't got enought money to buy it or you don't wat to buy it if you can get it free and all people do it?"
srijit
yeah its illegal. but sometimes companies WANT you to usetheir products even if it means illegally downloading them. take for example windows, MS office and photoshop. remeber the fuss MS caused when a piece of their code leaked out? and they shut down some servers with the help of FBI? well those same servers had vista alpha's and other high end MS stuff. so was MS unaware of those. NO. they want you to use XP and office at home. then when you get a job, you might buy it for ur use. even more important the company that you work for will also buy XP and office, since most ppl are trained in them. and MS can charge the company a hell of a lot more for support. same is the case with photoshop. since we get photoshop for nextto nothing we use it and get so familiar that we tend to look down on other altenatives. ( agreed that none match up tp photoshop, but still they are out there ) sometimes its best not to think too much.... Wink
ee82hl
agree that some software is very outrages
e.g. XXXXXXX cost at least more than $1000!!
Some software require us even to upgrade yearly, paying at least 25% of its cost..meaning after 4yrs, you are literally paying for a new set of software.

And piracy started, and developer have to recuperate lost. Its too late for them now to revise the price. But on CDs and dvds, cost is going down, which is good.
KHO
Sure software is becoming too expensive, but why do you think that is? Do you think that you downloading it will make it any cheaper?! Companies increase the price to honest coustomers because they don't sell enough, because everyone downloads it now. They have to make a certain amount of money to keep the product good, to pay their employees, to make sure that the 500 or more people some of these companies have working for them don't suddenly get dropped on their rumps in the street with no job because the company had to close due to a total loss in the product.

lllegal downloading is wrong.
mark
You can't stop illegal downloads and piracy. When a new software is released, the pirated version is available immediately on the web. There is no way the government or anyone can stop that happening.
Yes, software is expensive. So what the hell? You can still be on the safer side by buying the correct software.
vignesh_natraj
Illegal downloads have become a lot common nowadays and sure it is a serious threat to software manufactures.The torrent thing - one has to patient for a long time and wait for the seeders(Those who contain full file) to upload some data to us.Torrents are not illegal but there are many illegal stuffs circulating around the torrent network
acron170
i started and its so hard to stop. first its photoshop so i can make sim objects and then i downloaded lotsa sim object and i download alot!!!!!! i know its so wrong but i just can't stop doing it. lately i stopped but i got limewire today so it's starting up again. its so hard to stop!!
blu3bird
a price like 3000 for a software, tats wat encouraging illegal downloading. Im not saying tat software shld be cheap, but few thousand of dollars is like a few months pay. Software could be more affordable.i dun mind paying hundreds of dollars, but 3000 for 3dsmax ? here its like $5000 for 3dsmax 6, where our average income per mth is ard $2000 ..

anyway, we still can turn to open source software available for dl. eg blender 3d is another good program for 3d modelling. I guess this issue may nvr be resolve until all the developers came together to counter this problem, by lowering prices altogether
corey
n0obie4life wrote:
Donutey wrote:
Open source is the solution for filesharing Rolling Eyes


May I know when can we get Open Source music?

Maybe not "open source" but licenced under the Creative Commons licence (which means you can download and share it free). I get music at http://www.purevolume.com Its a great place to find songs by great bands.

Oh, and if anyone has said music downloading is bad or illegaly and they're from Canada, shame on you! Its not illegal to download music. We've been paying an extra surchare on blank media (CD's, DVD's, cassettes) since cassettes came out so that the artists could be compensated for their work. By the way, I've not been refunded for all the GPL-licenced and free stuff (like linux ISOs) that I've put on my cd's yet. Still waiting for the cheque...
Wd_removed
I have no problem with admitting my copy of Adobe Photoshop and Macromedia Studio aren't legit. I just wouldn't be able to afford this software otherwise, if I could afford it I would buy it.
Nyizsa
Some say that downloading an MP3 from Internet is the same thing as stealing a CD from a music store.
I completely disagree with that opinion. I think that downloading something is more analogue to recording it from a radio broadcast. I can listen to the song, but the quality will be far behind than that of the one on CD... (plus, do I have to worry about that the broadcast was a "pirate-station" or not?)
And then, if I like the song I recorded / downloaded, I will buy the CD, so the artist can cash my money...
FriBogdan
I use Strongdc++ (it is a client for p2p connections) full time. If my PC is on i open the StrongDC++. Now...u can say i'm not honest but at 17 years and living in country where the medium earnings of one man is about 200 US $...u should think again. It is my option : p2p network is very big and reliable. U can find movies, music & soft (including games and so on..). Anyway, every thing i am downloading it is for my personal use, i don't resell them.
My point is that if i can afford something i will take the right way: buy that thing (if it is for sale Razz) and promote this way that product. If i can't afford it...i can still promote it Very Happy.
impulse29
I think of programs like cars. Most times you test drive the car before you buy it right? If there is no demo of the program, or I doubt its quality, I will download it, and try it. If I don't like it, then I won't buy it. If I like it, then I will support the time that people have invested into it, and buy it.

I think that it is way too easy to download a program, movie, song, etc., and that all the attention that Bit Torrent has been getting isn't positive for it. That said, there are a lot more files on other clients, such as Carracho, KDX, Wired, and private servers.

The companies are (obviously) losing money from the piracy, and to regain the lost profit, they will increase the price, which will make other people download it illegally. It is a perpetual cycle, and seems to have no end.

Some programs (such as Norton Internet Security 2005) have a comprehensive system to authenticate the program. However, despite it requiring a serial, a phone code, and another code, they are still cracked very easily.

If these companies really want to combat piracy, they must implement a system that makes each copy unique to the user, requires online authentication, and if the copy is redistributed, its unique number could be tracked back to the original purchaser. ?
root
Donutey wrote:
Open source is the solution for filesharing Rolling Eyes

The Gimp = Photoshop
OpenOffice = Microsoft Office
GAIM = AIM
Firefox = IE
Linux = Windows

IDK, think about all that open source programs have been able to do, only without a whole lot of $$, I think the payout of donating $10 to some opensource program has a lot greater payout than $100 for windows xp...


linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows NOT =
Alacarde
I myself think that this has two sides to it as well.

For instance, a student struggling to pay his/her bills and going to school part time and work part time obviously does not have $1000 to spend on Adobe Photoshop, or Flash MX, or Maya, or 3ds Max, etc. So download it!

Rich people, though, should just buy the software!

Businesses... well, they should buy the software also becuase, (at least in the US) you can list it as a business expense on your taxes and get all the money back...lol.

As to music though, download it. Hell, I download every song that I can, and yet it doesn't seem like Ludicris, or Garth Brooks, or Britney Spears are going broke to me.

LEGAL: Everything about me download stuff was a lie to make myself look cool.
Nyizsa
Have you ever heard of that dual-license thing? For example, a software is downloadable for free, but you won't get any support with it (except for forums, of course). But when a business decides to use it, they have to buy it, and get updates, support, help desk and so on. I think this is a very good way to popularize someone's software, and still earn money.
acron170
i just downloaded swish max because you have to ******* go to the site and go through some 30 minute process to activate the demo. It's dumb. also does anyone know if there are some good vb open source web browsers(&@#% those mozilla freaks who made firefox with java!).
LuiS_J
hummm this topic is really important.. but seriously would u go out and spend 3,000 dollars on a program... i know i wouln't.. i agree that is bad.. but if its that expensive i rather have it for free.. well im honest.. and i hope people that ripped this kind of stuff.. they keep doing it... cuz i don think everybody could spend 3,000 dollars on a program that you know a year later its going the get old and also a new version is coming out.. well im sorry if u don like my reply.. but its just my opinion.. Very Happy Very Happy Cool Cool Surprised
a.Bird
I'm sure pirating windows 3.1 was a serious issue when it was released. But ******, it's just so incredibly obsolete now that it doesn't even matter. It's still the same sequence of 0's and 1's but now useless. Photoshop 4 is still the same 0's and 1's now as it was when it first came out. But hey, we're up to like, Photoshop 8 now, grab a free copy of Photoshop 4 it doesn't really matter.

It sort of just blows my mind how one can put a price on an I/O sequence physically recorded on disk platters. What if I write the entire code for Windows XP sp2 all by myself, exactly, and it sits on my harddisk exactly as Gate's version would. Do I owe that son of a bitch money? Because I didn't illegally pirate his software, I wrote it myself completely. Really I did. I'm not lying.
khairulsyahir
For me, download is very useful for testing purposes. In some situation, I even see it as completely necessary. If I am to buy a software or a game or perhaps some music that could cost me up till thousands of dollars, i would definitely be real upset if that piece of software/game/music is a complete crap. Even though it might be great for others (otherwise they won't put up such a high retail price) but what matters for me is that it suits me. it suits my need, my style, my way of using it, my ease of working with it and all that stuff. If it couldn't provide those things, I'd say those thousands of dollars spent are utter waste. And of course, there's now way to know if the software actually works to your liking unless you like it.

And now, i've actually taken to practice the cliche adopted by software crackers: "If you like it, buy it!"
ChrisCh
i would like to raise a very interesting question.

new software releases are usually cracked and distributed over the internet within days of the initial relase. what i have always wondered is why the developers of the world's most popular and well-known software don't have their own team of crackers working for them, so that once their software is at a point to which the developers feel it is ready for publie release, their cracking team has a go at it, and any cracks they discover are somehow disabled before the software product makes it to the shelves.

it just seems common sense to me that companies this big have a "crack team" devoted to finding the loopholes with their own software, rather than waiting for someone on the outside to do it, and consequently distribute pirated copies of the software on the internet.

please post your thoughts Smile
khairulsyahir
The best things in life are always free. Why not make softwares part of it?

Heheh... i know, you don't have to answer that. But really software and games could sometimes (which means most of the time) set you back really heavy, and that's why pirates arise...

Sometimes I really think thoe crackers who cracked softwares are good people, really googd people. They want to make softwares available to average people that would otherwise be inaccessible. Most of the time they put in the phrase "..for educational purpose...if you like it, buy it!" in the readme files. Now, i don't know whether they really mean it or just to make them look less guilty, but i would like to believe that without them, a lot of people who got a PC at home won't be able to make any good out of it. And I mean A LOT of people.

Plus, those crackers crack open the softwares. They don't make money out of it. Those who resell it are the true pirates
Animal
Please discuss software piracy in this thread.

-close-
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