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Forget...





S3nd K3ys
Forget the fact that we've made remarkable progress under daunting conditions: The Dems are looking to throw the game just to embarrass the Bush administration. Forget about the consequences. Forget the immediate encouragement to the terrorists and insurgents to keep killing every American soldier they can. Forget about what would happen in Iraq and the region if we bail out. Forget how a U.S. surrender would turn al Qaeda into an Islamic superpower, the champ who knocked out Uncle Sam in the third round.

Forget about our dead soldiers, whose sacrifice is nothing but a political club for Democrats to wave in front of the media. After all, one way to create the kind of disaffection in the ranks that the Dems' leaders yearn to see is to tell our troops on the battlefield that they're risking their lives for nothing, we're throwing the game. Forget that our combat veterans are re-enlisting at remarkable rates knowing they'll have to leave their families and go back to war again. Forget the progress on the ground, the squeezing of the insurgency's last strongholds into the badlands on the Syrian border. Forget the successive Iraqi elections and the astonishing cooperation we've seen between age-old enemies as they struggle to form a decent government.

Whatever you do, Forget about any possible consequences. Focus on the moment and the next round of U.S. elections. Just make political points. After all, those dead American soldiers and Marines don't matter they didn't go to Ivy League schools. (Besides, most would've voted Republican had they lived.)

For God's sake, Forget about democracy in the Middle East. After all, democracy wasn't much fun for the Dems in 2000 or 2004. Why support it overseas, when it's been so disappointing at home? Human rights? Oh, dear. Human rights are for rich white people who live in Malibu. Unless you can use the issue to whack Republicans. Otherwise, brown, black or yellow people can die by the millions. Dean, Reid & Pelosi, LLC, won't say, "Boo!" You've got to understand, my fellow citizens: None of this matters. And you don't matter, either. All that matters is scoring political points. Let the world burn. Let the massacres run on. Let the terrorists acquire WMD. Just give the Bush administration a big black eye and we'll call that a win.

The irresponsibility of the Democrats on Capitol Hill is breathtaking. (How can an honorable man such as Joe Lieberman stay in that party?) Not one of the critics of our efforts in Iraq not one has described his or her vision for Iraq and the Middle East in the wake of a troop withdrawal. Not one has offered any analysis of what the terrorists would gain and what they might do. Not one has shown respect for our war dead by arguing that we must put aside our partisan differences and win. There's plenty I don't like about the Bush administration. Its domestic policies disgust me, and the Bushies got plenty wrong in Iraq. But at least they'll fight. The Dems are ready to betray our troops, our allies and our country's future security for a few House seats.

Yes, we've been told lies about Iraq by Dems and their media groupies. About conditions on the ground. About our troops. About what's at stake. About the consequences of running away from the great struggle of our time. About the continuing threat from terrorism. And about the consequences for you and your family. What do the Democrats fear? An American success in Iraq. They need us to fail, and they're going to make us fail, no matter the cost. They need to declare defeat before the 2006 mid-term elections and ensure a real debacle before 2008 a bloody mess they'll blame on Bush, even though they made it themselves.

We won't even talk about the effect quitting while we're winning in Iraq might have on the go-to-war calculations of other powers that might want to challenge us in the future. Let's just be good Democrats and prove that Osama bin Laden was right all along: Americans have no stomach for a fight. As for the 2,000-plus dead American troops about whom the lefties are so awfully concerned? As soon as we abandon Iraq, they'll forget about our casualties quicker than an amnesiac forgets how much small-change he had in his pocket. If we run away from our enemies overseas, our enemies will make their way to us. Quit Iraq, and far more than 2,000 Americans are going to die.

Just Forget.
LeviticusMky
Wow.

That's all I'll say.

I would try to debate this, but there's way too much raw belief in that post to warrant a civilized conversation.

Suffice to say that I disagree wholeheartedly.
SunburnedCactus
Forget... about Richard Nixon

Laughing
gonzo
LeviticusMky wrote:


That's all I'll say {because I don't have a firm enough grasp on my own ideology to attempt to refute yours}

I would try to debate this, but {I'm lazy}.
.


Wow.
SunburnedCactus
Honestly, you're like some magic mind reader gonzo! Laughing
gonzo
SunburnedCactus wrote:
Honestly, you're like some magic mind reader gonzo! Laughing {you're my hero}


Cool Cool Very Happy
yzy
Forget evey unhappy thing,forget yourself is best.
tidruG
gonzo wrote:
LeviticusMky wrote:


That's all I'll say {because I don't have a firm enough grasp on my own ideology to attempt to refute yours}

I would try to debate this, but {I'm lazy}.
.


Wow.

Hey, you know, that reminds me....
Someone was talking about putting words into other people's mouths?
..
..
..
..
Wow, talk about editing people's quotes.

*Edit: Oh wait, that was shr3dd and S3nd K3ys (about the complaints about putting words into people's mouths)... my mistake.
S3nd K3ys
tidruG wrote:
gonzo wrote:
LeviticusMky wrote:


That's all I'll say {because I don't have a firm enough grasp on my own ideology to attempt to refute yours}

I would try to debate this, but {I'm lazy}.
.


Wow.

Hey, you know, that reminds me....
Someone was talking about putting words into other people's mouths?
..
..
..
..
Wow, talk about editing people's quotes.

*Edit: Oh wait, that was shr3dd and S3nd K3ys (about the complaints about putting words into people's mouths)... my mistake.


Lest we not forget that gonzo, unlike Xeowhateverhisnamewas, made it PERFECTLY clear what he was doing, where your X-buddy was trying to hide it. Wink
tidruG
S3nd K3ys wrote:
tidruG wrote:
gonzo wrote:
LeviticusMky wrote:


That's all I'll say {because I don't have a firm enough grasp on my own ideology to attempt to refute yours}

I would try to debate this, but {I'm lazy}.
.


Wow.

Hey, you know, that reminds me....
Someone was talking about putting words into other people's mouths?
..
..
..
..
Wow, talk about editing people's quotes.

*Edit: Oh wait, that was shr3dd and S3nd K3ys (about the complaints about putting words into people's mouths)... my mistake.


Lest we not forget that gonzo, unlike Xeowhateverhisnamewas, made it PERFECTLY clear what he was doing, where your X-buddy was trying to hide it. Wink

True... however (I'm using spamming as an example here...):
Making it perfectly clear that you're spamming (like naming your thread "hsgfsfgdh - I'M SPAMMING" and posting "hsdgfhsdgfsgfdjsgsd") is still pretty much the same as spamming without being PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE (post title - "jhsdhf - I COULD be spamming", post body - "ksgfksfkdjshkfhdksgh")

However, I don't agree with the user on this:
Quote:
there's way too much raw belief in that post to warrant a civilized conversation.

Primarily because I've seen you civilly debating many issues you're passionate about (except perhaps that one on "Liberal?" by Che.. you and I both went crazy on that one. Razz)

Oh, and I still didn't get what "X-Buddy" was trying to hide. It seemed perfectly clear to me that he just didn't expect to be able to have a civil debate with you about this issue. That's a clear expression of his opinion.

(note : his opinion)
S3nd K3ys
tidruG wrote:
...
However, I don't agree with the user on this:
Quote:
there's way too much raw belief in that post to warrant a civilized conversation.

Primarily because I've seen you civilly debating many issues you're passionate about (except perhaps that one on "Liberal?" by Che.. you and I both went crazy on that one. Razz)

Oh, and I still didn't get what "X-Buddy" was trying to hide. It seemed perfectly clear to me that he just didn't expect to be able to have a civil debate with you about this issue. That's a clear expression of his opinion.

(note : his opinion)


One thing to note, tidrug, some times, my 'debates' about lieberals are not so much debates as they are 'informative trolls'. I guess I should be more careful about making that intention known a bit better. Sometimes the smile on my face doesn't get transferred to the screen. Wink

I think what X-Buddy was trying to hide was the fact that he tried to get people to think I said/implied something I didn't. I don't take lightly to that sort of tactic, and I saw it quite a bit with him, so I put him on virtual "ignore" and desregarded anything else he said, even if it was valid. It's kind of a shame, too, because he is not stupid by any means, but he takes things out of context so much it's hard to debate intelligently with him.

On a last note; there have been times when I've changed someone's quote as well, but I make it PERFECTLY clear what I'm doing by adding "fissed" after the altered quote.
Bondings
S3nd K3ys wrote:
... are not so much debates as they are 'informative trolls' ...

Oh yeah, all information coming straightly from the white house. Ever thought of the fact that Bush and his team decide what should be put in there? Wink
LeviticusMky
If you're willing to promise to keep it civil, I'll debate you on this, but if things start to get, ugly, I'm out.

The reason that I posted a short ultimatum was because us Liberals are MASSIVELY outnumbered here on the frihost forums, and it is very easy to get dog-piled-on in a place like this.
S3nd K3ys
Bondings wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
... are not so much debates as they are 'informative trolls' ...

Oh yeah, all information coming straightly from the white house. Ever thought of the fact that Bush and his team decide what should be put in there? Wink


I see you pop in from time to time, Bondings, making little jabs at my posts then disapearing never to return after I've showed you the error of your ways...

Why is that..? Wink

Anyway, as far as the white house web site, if they were posting up a bunch of BS like you're insinuating, they WOULD be called on it. It would definately be made public, and the MSM would take the stories and plaster them all over the news.

Also, my sources are of places that include both right AND left parties. Unlike some here, I am very well versed on BOTH sides of most of the debates I enter into. (Know thine enemy and all that Wink )

Besides, I am a recently converted Democrat myself (a few years ago), so I've got a good idea of how they work and think. Cool

If you so terribly believe the white house web site is full of lies, perhaps you could do me the honor of providing at least some sort of proof to back up your claims instead of making piffy little comments then running off to hide. Laughing
S3nd K3ys
LeviticusMky wrote:
If you're willing to promise to keep it civil, I'll debate you on this, but if things start to get, ugly, I'm out.

The reason that I posted a short ultimatum was because us Liberals are MASSIVELY outnumbered here on the frihost forums, and it is very easy to get dog-piled-on in a place like this.


The civility you see from me will be a direct result of your own actions or lack there of. (In other words, if you can be civil, I can be civil. Wink )

Perhaps we can use this as a start for the debate forum we've been talking about? Very Happy

BTW, I seriously doubt you're massively outnumbered, expecially considering that the Dems are almost always on your side. (Hell, I've got almost the entire staff of frihost against me. Cool )
S3nd K3ys
S3nd K3ys wrote:
Bondings wrote:
S3nd K3ys wrote:
... are not so much debates as they are 'informative trolls' ...

Oh yeah, all information coming straightly from the white house. Ever thought of the fact that Bush and his team decide what should be put in there? Wink


I see you pop in from time to time, Bondings, making little jabs at my posts then disapearing never to return after I've showed you the error of your ways...

Why is that..? Wink

Anyway, as far as the white house web site, if they were posting up a bunch of BS like you're insinuating, they WOULD be called on it. It would definately be made public, and the MSM would take the stories and plaster them all over the news.

Also, my sources are of places that include both right AND left parties. Unlike some here, I am very well versed on BOTH sides of most of the debates I enter into. (Know thine enemy and all that Wink )

Besides, I am a recently converted Democrat myself (a few years ago), so I've got a good idea of how they work and think. Cool

If you so terribly believe the white house web site is full of lies, perhaps you could do me the honor of providing at least some sort of proof to back up your claims instead of making piffy little comments then running off to hide. Laughing


:crickets:



tidruG
S3nd, the entire Frihost staff is not against you. If we were, your thread about real love would not have been on the Featured Discussions. We all just thought you liked a good debate... liked tohave your points called on so you can debate and justify them/prove them... don't make it personal.

As for information off the white house site.... think of it this way.... you're always sounding off about "liberal-biased" media, and how we shouldn't use "liberal-biased" media as our sources. Yet, you use a lot of information off the white house website/Fox News or other "right-biased" media. If you see nothing wrong with using white house information to make your points, then how about letting liberals use liberal-biased media for their points?

PS: As far as putting words in people's mouth is concerned... Did Steve specifically mention that the white house website is full of bullshit? No. He just said that Bush and his admin decide what's put in there. That means they decide to put in all the situations in which the govenment worked, and leave out all its failures. They deicde to paint the best picture of everything they've done, which may not always be the true picture. This is probably done by all the governments of the world, don't you think so?

PS: By the way, there are a lot more Reps in the DWN forum than liberals. Or well, at least a lot more posts by the Republicans. And most of the Frihost staff is not in the US... so we're neither Republicans nor Democrats. Don't you know this by now?
Jayfarer
I stopped reading once I realized you were trying to accuse the Democrats of demanding a surrender to Al Qaeda.
xalophus
S3nd K3ys wrote:
there have been times when I've changed someone's quote as well, but I make it PERFECTLY clear what I'm doing by adding "fissed" after the altered quote.

You mean like this post ?
where you quoted me ?
http://frihost.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=68410#68410

But I don't see the PERFECTLY clear "fissed".
Oh I know, that must be your idea of a "civil" debate.



S3nd K3ys wrote:
I see you pop in from time to time, Bondings, making little jabs at my posts then disapearing never to return after I've showed you the error of your ways...

Why is that..? Wink

I see you post a lot of new threads, S3nd K3ys, campaigning for Bush, then never reading or giving a damn about other people's views...

Why is that ? Wink

As for the reason why people avoid trying to debate with you for long has been put nicely by LeviticusMky - to avoid being dog-piled upon.
Here's the perfect example again - http://frihost.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=68410#68410



S3nd K3ys wrote:
Also, my sources are of places that include both right AND left parties. Unlike some here, I am very well versed on BOTH sides of most of the debates I enter into.

Oh you mean sources like worldnetdaily ?
http://frihost.com/forums/vt-16917.html


S3nd K3ys wrote:
He refuses to look outside his little CNN box and accept facts.

Forget that I never watch CNN, still blame me for being confined in the CNN box.
Forget that your source of news is a propaganda site, still claim that you are well informed.
Forget that you resort to mocking and name-calling (simply put dog-piling) the person who disagrees with you, still claim that you debate with "civility"


You can only shout your own point of view, and cannot accept any idea or fact which goes against it.
It's not "informative trolling" it's classic "Trolling", plain and simple.
S3nd K3ys
tidruG wrote:
S3nd, the entire Frihost staff is not against you. If we were, your thread about real love would not have been on the Featured Discussions. We all just thought you liked a good debate... liked tohave your points called on so you can debate and justify them/prove them... don't make it personal.



(Pssst... it was a joke Very Happy ) Besides, I'm talking politically, not emotionally.

Quote:

As for information off the white house site.... think of it this way.... you're always sounding off about "liberal-biased" media, and how we shouldn't use "liberal-biased" media as our sources. Yet, you use a lot of information off the white house website/Fox News or other "right-biased" media. If you see nothing wrong with using white house information to make your points, then how about letting liberals use liberal-biased media for their points?


The white house web site is not a news channel or main-stream-media, like CNN, Fox, AP, Reuters, BBC etc. are.

You can't compare the two in this context. Nice try though. Wink


Quote:

PS: As far as putting words in people's mouth is concerned... Did Steve specifically mention that the white house website is full of bullshit?


No. Hence the reason I italicized the use of the phrase LIKE YOU'RE INSINUATING when I said it.
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