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The Trump Effect





Haiku2016
Like him or not, you must admit that Trump is stirring up the pot. What do you think of his actions since taking power? In Australia, there's a similar concern with a politician called Pauline Hanson. Are we swinging hard right? Will issues of race and religion become more pronounced? Are there developments in other countries that are reflecting a similar trend?
loveandormoney
The dollar is rising.
So the world is saying thank You Americans
You brought us Trump.
Haiku2016
Ya. I did think that Trump will end up being good for the economy, if not for anything else. It seems that the idealism of the 60s has run its course? Are we now unashamedly capitalist, self-absorbed and worried only about the moment? Has anyone analyzed what's going on with the world today? I don't think Trump is just a US anomaly.
loveandormoney
And how about his outside schedule?
Haiku2016
Hmm. You need to be more specific with what you mean by his "outside schedule".
standready
Haiku2016 wrote:
What do you think of his actions since taking power?

Well he is NOT in power yet (mid-January 2017) but he is already shaking things up a bit. Will be interesting to see if he can actually get something done when he has command.
loveandormoney
Shaking a lot. You are right. Watch the new relatioships with Asia.
restonpiston
Even though you all might be right, i would like to propose another point of view i have seen in this newspaper/blog:

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-goldmans-again-maga/

First of all keep in mind that the sources are unofficial in this blog, but the idea is quite interesting.
They state that Goldman Sachs (investment company) was equally happy with Hillary and Trump,
as the latter has named some Goldman Sachs' bankers as important positions in his government.
deanhills
restonpiston wrote:
Even though you all might be right, i would like to propose another point of view i have seen in this newspaper/blog:

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-goldmans-again-maga/

First of all keep in mind that the sources are unofficial in this blog, but the idea is quite interesting.
They state that Goldman Sachs (investment company) was equally happy with Hillary and Trump,
as the latter has named some Goldman Sachs' bankers as important positions in his government.
There could be something true as both Trump and Hillary have close connections with New York business.
loveandormoney
Dont forget
Mr Trump has a lot of connections with the industry.
deanhills
loveandormoney wrote:
Dont forget
Mr Trump has a lot of connections with the industry.
which could also mean that he'll be looking more after industry than the rest of the people. I'd like to see what he is going to do for the environment.
loveandormoney
Yes
the rich people like and vote Trump.

The shares rise. The dollar rises.
Ankhanu
deanhills wrote:
I'd like to see what he is going to do for the environment.

I think it's more aptly put as what is he going to do to the environment.
Being a climate change denier, and so far making appointments to positions like the EPA with opponents to the mandates of those positions... I can't see things turning out well. He'll likely do as much for the environment as Stephen Harper did for Canada's.
deanhills
Ankhanu wrote:
deanhills wrote:
I'd like to see what he is going to do for the environment.

I think it's more aptly put as what is he going to do to the environment.
Being a climate change denier, and so far making appointments to positions like the EPA with opponents to the mandates of those positions... I can't see things turning out well. He'll likely do as much for the environment as Stephen Harper did for Canada's.
I'm glad I'm living on borrowed time on earth. US environment has already been ruined. He'll probably just put the finishing touches to the destruction.

Pity about Canada. I always though Canada was rock solid in environmental stuff. Hope Stephen Harper's successor will improve the situation, but I guess politically that would mean he will have to take a risk.
Ankhanu
Aye, I'm sure that the effect will be knocking down the few (easily opened) doors that currently apply due diligence upon projects that are likely to cause environmental harm... all in the name of economy.

Justin Trudeau has already begun reversing some of the destruction that Harper brought about, but there's a long way to go. He and his Liberals have removed many of the muzzles that had been applied to Canadian governmental scientists; we can now communicate with the outside world, and between departments/agencies again without everything being vetted by higher offices. Some of the positions that had been cut in Environment Canada, of Department of Fisheries and Oceans, for example, are being re-staffed (though by no means all), for example, but still there's a long way to go.
On the other hand, they also just approved a couple oil pipelines through BC that will eventually lead to big environmental impacts (beyond those imposed by their construction, etc)... and impact, as usual, first nations.

Steps forward, steps back.
deanhills
Ankhanu wrote:

Justin Trudeau has already begun reversing some of the destruction that Harper brought about, but there's a long way to go. He and his Liberals have removed many of the muzzles that had been applied to Canadian governmental scientists; we can now communicate with the outside world, and between departments/agencies again without everything being vetted by higher offices. Some of the positions that had been cut in Environment Canada, of Department of Fisheries and Oceans, for example, are being re-staffed (though by no means all), for example, but still there's a long way to go.
On the other hand, they also just approved a couple oil pipelines through BC that will eventually lead to big environmental impacts (beyond those imposed by their construction, etc)... and impact, as usual, first nations.

Steps forward, steps back.
Good news about Justin Trudeau. Got to be tough for him. As with his outdoors background I can just imagine what he must be feeling about the pipelines. Like HUGE collateral damage.
BigGeek
deanhills wrote:
I'm glad I'm living on borrowed time on earth. US environment has already been ruined. He'll probably just put the finishing touches to the destruction.


Sad but true - In Colorado the mountains and the wildlife have been destroyed. The mining and oil companies operate inefficiently and are sighted constantly for major pollution events and sub standard equipment that leads to the environmental impact. It is cheaper for them to pay the fines then to install the equipment and stop polluting so the just keep paying the fines.

One of the reasons that the fines are cheaper is because they can only be fined a maximum of 10K per event. And only once for defective equipment. So once the have been fined for the defective equipment they can't be fined again, and if the spill 10 times per year that is only 100K in fines as compared to millions to install the equipment needed to prevent the spills.

People up in the mountain towns that moved up there for the peace and quiet and outdoors life style are appalled at how dirty the area is due to the oil companies and mining industry, and they are sorely disappointed at how polluted the streams, rivers, and lakes are. It destroys their capacity to hunt and fish which is the biggest reason they move or retire up there.

So with the EPA, the Corporations rule and destroy the environment, and if Trump gets his way and abolishes the EPA then it will get worse than it already is, which is pretty bad at this point.
loveandormoney
Obama did something for the Indians.
One of is last descisions.
Trump will destroy it. Rich people reign the world.
deanhills
loveandormoney wrote:
Obama did something for the Indians.
One of is last descisions.
Trump will destroy it. Rich people reign the world.
I don't think Obama did anything for India out of love and generosity. More like establishing business links for the US economy. Trump will to the same. India is a thriving country, everyone is trying to do business with it.
LxGoodies
I think he means native Americans.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/21/free_leonard_peltier_obama_urged_to

Would be noble, if mr Obama would consider ending this long last injustice.
deanhills
LxGoodies wrote:
I think he means native Americans.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/21/free_leonard_peltier_obama_urged_to

Would be noble, if mr Obama would consider ending this long last injustice.
I thought he was out of the job, or is that only from New Year?
Haiku2016
I just want to thank everyone for keeping this thread alive. It didn't turn out to be about the topic I wanted to discuss but still, I appreciate and enjoy reading the posts. It looks like Trump is going to be good for business, and Obama was good for social justice. But people are more concerned right now about jobs and security. Dunno when we'll get serious about the environment.

Anyway, thank you for the posts and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
LxGoodies
deanhills wrote:
LxGoodies wrote:
I think he means native Americans.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/21/free_leonard_peltier_obama_urged_to

Would be noble, if mr Obama would consider ending this long last injustice.
I thought he was out of the job, or is that only from New Year?


"The inauguration of Donald Trump as the 45th President of the United States will take place on Friday, January 20, 2017, in Washington, D.C"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inauguration_of_Donald_Trump

b.t.w. I wonder who's worse.. Trump or his personnel ? Have you heard about this guy Carl Paladino ? former gouvernor candidate and Trump campaign executive in New York,

Quote:
On December 23, 2016, Paladino took part in an interview with alternative weekly newspaper Artvoice.[130][131] When asked what he would like to see happen in 2017, Paladino replied it was President Barack Obama dying of mad cow disease, stating: "Obama catches mad cow disease after being caught having relations with a Her[e]ford. He dies before his trial and is buried in a cow pasture next to [senior White House advisor] Valerie Jarret[t], who died weeks prior, after being convicted of sedition and treason, when a Jihady [sic] cell mate mistook her for being a nice person and decapitated her."[132] After then being asked "what he would most like to see go in 2017", he replied: "Michelle Obama. I'd like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla."[132]


..he really said that Confused Confused Confused if Artvoice would be on a political online forum and I would be the moderator.. I'd delete the text.. and assign that silly teenager a two weeks ban for racist flaming. This clown is 70 years old, supposed to be adult.. and part of the inner circle of the president elect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Paladino
deanhills
LxGoodies wrote:
..he really said that Confused Confused Confused if Artvoice would be on a political online forum and I would be the moderator.. I'd delete the text.. and assign that silly teenager a two weeks ban for racist flaming. This clown is 70 years old, supposed to be adult.. and part of the inner circle of the president elect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Paladino
Interesting times coming. Putin and Trump being buddies. Going to be particularly interesting to see how Trump undoes Obama's claim to fame Medical Insurance and any other Democratic and Obama decisions that had been taken in the past.

US going anti-migration. Wonder whether Guantanamo Bay will become a thriving concern again - or maybe it will be another island with a different name but making Guantanamo Bay of history look innocent in comparison.
BigGeek
Interesting article about Goldman Sachs and the candidates.

I am dumbfounded that Trump was able to polarize the working class and convince them that he heard their cries for help and was going to be their hero! So they voted him in as President!

In the article it states:
Trump’s own final campaign video declared that he would do battle against the “global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations”

The thing that I find so funny about this is that 1) it is true, during the Bush administration the wealthy ripped off the middle class for more than one third of their wealth and the Large Corporations and upper 1% of society increased their wealth by over 30%. Basically they transferred a huge portion of wealth from the middle class to the elite! 2) The wealthy like Trump are the enemy of the middle and lower classes, they see us as stupid useless people that need to be stolen from and fleeced of as much as possible to increase their bottom line!

They are right, people keep voting Conservatives into office thinking they are going to fix the economy and help provide them with avenues to earn money and better their lives, and cannot see that people like Trump will tell any lie possible, and misdirect everything away from the fact that he is going to steal every penny they have and has no concern about the hardship that it causes anyone!

This conservative rebellion that is gripping the planet and taking place in so many countries is exactly what George Orwell, Aldus Huxley, and others have been predicting for decades, a 1 world government, one world corporation, one world bank, and one world currency. Basically a Corporate government that rules the world!

Iran and North Korea are the last two countries that are not part of the international banking system. Look to Trump and Putin to go to war in those countries and topple their banking system and make them part of the global system. Once that happens a complete global economic collapse will occur and the solution will be a one world bank and currency!

Welcome to the Brave New World!
mcdorado
It's interesting how he was able to divide the country this fast.
America has always been a country defined by the difference in it's urban and rural inhabitants. One can still see this at the countless fights over issues regarding moral values. Gun control for example or birth control. Indeed, these opposite fronts have always existed but they co-existed for a long time but in the tradition of reaching a compromise that satisfies all people.

In recent years (I'd say beginning with Bush junior's second administration but this severely increased with Obama's administration) there was a new phenomenon. Making political decisions not only because of their immediate implication anymore but overloading them with moral/emotional/party political/whatsoever arguments. And both of the parties engaged in this run which is ultimately taking objective arguments out of politics.

Now Trump enters the race for president, using those two factors and blending them for his own gain. Using the existing societal borderlines and intensifying them using methods of emotionalism and his knowledge of publicity and the media in the us. This is why he can only maintain his presidency as long as he can keep up the struggle between the so called liberals and right-wings, two words which replace all political positions all those people with a dead-end argument.

A president, no matter what political party, should unite, not divide the people!
Da Rossa
Haiku2016 wrote:
Like him or not, you must admit that Trump is stirring up the pot. What do you think of his actions since taking power? In Australia, there's a similar concern with a politician called Pauline Hanson. Are we swinging hard right? Will issues of race and religion become more pronounced? Are there developments in other countries that are reflecting a similar trend?


I think the world needs more right to balance things. Some values like nationality are simply being forgotten. The problem is this is a fertile ground for extremists.

I prefer right-wing extremists than left-wing ones, though.
BigGeek
mcdorado wrote:
It's interesting how he was able to divide the country this fast.
America has always been a country defined by the difference in it's urban and rural inhabitants. One can still see this at the countless fights over issues regarding moral values. Gun control for example or birth control. Indeed, these opposite fronts have always existed but they co-existed for a long time but in the tradition of reaching a compromise that satisfies all people.

In recent years (I'd say beginning with Bush junior's second administration but this severely increased with Obama's administration) there was a new phenomenon. Making political decisions not only because of their immediate implication anymore but overloading them with moral/emotional/party political/whatsoever arguments. And both of the parties engaged in this run which is ultimately taking objective arguments out of politics.

Now Trump enters the race for president, using those two factors and blending them for his own gain. Using the existing societal borderlines and intensifying them using methods of emotionalism and his knowledge of publicity and the media in the us. This is why he can only maintain his presidency as long as he can keep up the struggle between the so called liberals and right-wings, two words which replace all political positions all those people with a dead-end argument.

A president, no matter what political party, should unite, not divide the people!


I think the divide was coming for a long time! It just grew to incredible proportions with Trump. Fox news came on line back in 1996 because Rupert Murdoch claimed that the major media outlets were liberal and he wanted to give the conservative agenda an outlet. From day one Fox News and it's crew have labeled democrats as liberals, and have been pushing the belief that people with liberal political values have some sort of problem, they are brainwashed, part of a cult, have a mental disorder, are stupid, lazy, ignorant and uninformed.

Ann Coulter wrote a book that expressed these views, Rush Limbaugh shouts these views and insults anyone with an alternate view. Sean Hannity speaks to the same points and insults liberals with vile disgust on his face. Bill Oreilly insults different races and outer countries outright and laughs about it and expresses his hatred and contempt for "liberals" in his commentaries.

If you ask me Fox News has been pushing this division of decades now and their viewers have been brainwashed to hate liberals with a passion. This hatred and division was taken advantage of by Trump and pushed to a new level. This division is exactly what the conservatives wanted as it gave them the ability to institute their agenda with a ferociousness never seen before, and they are doing so with around 40% approval from the US People. So they can force policies, laws, and so forth upon the people without their approval, and when they are called out on it all they have to do is claim fake news and claim the people really do want it - and keep pushing their agenda forward!!!
gadislade
Its all about political move to gather votes and sympathy nothing else...
loveandormoney
Trump is going to China. Will he provoke or improve the relationships with the Socialist country?
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