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What is spiritual?





Ankhanu
I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual.
I had a spiritual experience, it was incredible.

Spiritual may be one of the most vaccuous, useless terms used when discussing topics concerning religion or belief. It's ill-defined and nebulous, and there's no real way to determine its definition without explanation, and few have any idea how to explain or define what they mean when they use it... so let's try!

Spiritual, what the hell does it mean? What do you mean when you use it? Why do you use it, or why don't you? Why would you describe something as being spiritual?
I urge you to really get down to its elemental essence... yeah, yeah, of or related to the spirit... great, what does that mean? What is the spirit?
deanhills
Darn! Where is Bikerman? Razz

For me spirit is that part of me that lingers on when my body has expired. Like when I had to check up on my grand mom after she died at the morgue, there was no spirit in the body. It just wasn't her. Like an empty shell.

It's that part of her that held her head up proud. Made her sit in a special way. Looked at me in a special way.
LxGoodies
I find it a vague term. I don't believe in afterlife, or some magical, atomic personal spirit containing all information about a person. For me, spirit is different. I view "spirit" as the ability to make people enthousiastic for something. For me "personal spirit" would be the urge of being connected with other people, culturally. And the motivation (enthousiasm) involved in the activities that come with that.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=concert+lighters&biw=1514&bih=752&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X
Ankhanu
deanhills wrote:
For me spirit is that part of me that lingers on when my body has expired. Like when I had to check up on my grand mom after she died at the morgue, there was no spirit in the body. It just wasn't her. Like an empty shell.

It's that part of her that held her head up proud. Made her sit in a special way. Looked at me in a special way.

For now, let's run with this, accept the premise that that the spirit is something that fills the bodily shell... what is that? What does that mean, and how does it relate to how we interact with the universe??

Does this apply to a lobster too? A tree? They're also somewhat different when dead...

LxGoodies wrote:
I find it a vague term. I don't believe in afterlife, or some magical, atomic personal spirit containing all information about a person. For me, spirit is different. I view "spirit" as the ability to make people enthousiastic for something. For me "personal spirit" would be the urge of being connected with other people, culturally. And the motivation (enthousiasm) involved in the activities that come with that.

Basically for something to be spiritual it needs to impart a sense of drive and excitement?
LxGoodies
ankhanu wrote:
For now, let's run with this, accept the premise that that the spirit is something that fills the bodily shell...

Why ?

Quote:

LxGoodies wrote:
I find it a vague term. I don't believe in afterlife, or some magical, atomic personal spirit containing all information about a person. For me, spirit is different. I view "spirit" as the ability to make people enthousiastic for something. For me "personal spirit" would be the urge of being connected with other people, culturally. And the motivation (enthousiasm) involved in the activities that come with that.

Basically for something to be spiritual it needs to impart a sense of drive and excitement?

Maybe my view (and experience) with "spiritual feeling" is different than yours. For me, an event has a spirit. People that attend the event feel it. Like the moment people are lighting a lighter, during a concert. That's why I put that link.
Ankhanu
LxGoodies wrote:
ankhanu wrote:
For now, let's run with this, accept the premise that that the spirit is something that fills the bodily shell...

Why ?

Because there's not much discussion activity on the forum these days.

LxGoodies wrote:
Maybe my view (and experience) with "spiritual feeling" is different than yours. For me, an event has a spirit. People that attend the event feel it. Like the moment people are lighting a lighter, during a concert. That's why I put that link.

What about something like being alone in at the edge of the ocean, or out in the woods? The serenity that might come over a person is often described as being spiritual.
jajarvin
A Spirit, coming from the Latin Spiritus:
(Latin for "Spirit" or "breathing")
Ankhanu
jajarvin wrote:
A Spirit, coming from the Latin Spiritus:
(Latin for "Spirit" or "breathing")

So, what you're implying is that breathing is what people mean when they say that something is spiritual... How does this breathing differ from breathing during every other non-spiritual defined experience?
IndieCthulhu
I can't say that I have any comments for he last post on this thread but I do have something to say about Spirituality and how the question was phrased in the first post.

So people say they are not religious but spiritual and people who are religious can say they are not spiritual. Which is confusing because the way the English language has evolved many words lose there original meaning.

The way I see it? Well I am 'spiritual' but that is merely the best way to describe how I feel. I have my own little belief on reality and what it is. I can't explain it, that's just it... The feeling of I have this thing, this meaning, this feeling about existence and reality itself but I cannot explain it. That raw feeling of the answer to "Why?" (not quoting earlier in thread) The answer to "How?" That is spirituality in my eye.

So people who are religious can be very heavy into doing the religious practice <religiously> but not feel as if it truly answers "Why?" Or "How?". Now people who aren't religious still do things 'religiously' so what defines that?

Ankhanu wrote:
For now, let's run with this, accept the premise that that the spirit is something that fills the bodily shell... what is that? What does that mean, and how does it relate to how we interact with the universe??

Does this apply to a lobster too? A tree? They're also somewhat different when dead...


Consciousness is basically how spirituality is being 'defined' here. The way I interpreted what Deanhills said is that without consciousness there can be no spirit. Which I feel in a way is both wrong and correct, as you say is a lobster? A tree?
Well who's to say they aren't spiritual? For all we know a lobster may have an answer as to "Why?" and "How?" in it's own mind which is its spirit. A tree, aren't they in stories and in folklore one of the most Spiritual things there is?

Taking this on a different path. Spirits from legend, ghosts and the sorts. Well if you had a cloud of ammonia gas and it was just existing, then you gave it conscious (just roll with it here) would this not have spirit? Would it not exist in the universe differently with a conscious than without?
spinout
the spirit in my interpretation is the soul and the input from that world. I suppose that is the common idea here here in Sweden.
loveandormoney
Ankhanu wrote:
I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual.
I had a spiritual experience, it was incredible.

Spiritual may be one of the most vaccuous, useless terms used when discussing topics concerning religion or belief. It's ill-defined and nebulous, and there's no real way to determine its definition without explanation, and few have any idea how to explain or define what they mean when they use it... so let's try!

Spiritual, what the hell does it mean? What do you mean when you use it? Why do you use it, or why don't you? Why would you describe something as being spiritual?
I urge you to really get down to its elemental essence... yeah, yeah, of or related to the spirit... great, what does that mean? What is the spirit?


Most important thing: With spiritual power You heal sick people. And also You repair with spiritual love destroyed relationships f.e. mother and son.
Ankhanu
IndieCthulhu if the spirit is just consciousness, why refer to it as spirit at all?

I was initially going to say that people don't tend to refer to themselves as religious without invoking spirituality, but, well, there are those who partake in religions, their actions and dogma, without internalizing or accepting various esoteric aspects of them. The behaviour of religion and the acceptance of the esoteric don't necessarily go hand in hand.

IndieCthulhu wrote:
I am 'spiritual' but that is merely the best way to describe how I feel. I have my own little belief on reality and what it is. I can't explain it, that's just it... The feeling of I have this thing, this meaning, this feeling about existence and reality itself but I cannot explain it. That raw feeling of the answer to "Why?" (not quoting earlier in thread) The answer to "How?" That is spirituality in my eye.

And this is the crux of the thread... how is spiritual the best word to describe this? Without defining the word, you could just as easily use orange to describe this.
How do you know that using the word spiritual to describe this nebulous idea will describe the same thing to your audience? The importance of language is to convey meaning... from what I'm seeing, spiritual is still useless in this capacity.

spinout wrote:
the spirit in my interpretation is the soul and the input from that world. I suppose that is the common idea here here in Sweden.

So, what is this soul, and world that it connects to... without information, this is meaningless.

loveandormoney wrote:
Most important thing: With spiritual power You heal sick people. And also You repair with spiritual love destroyed relationships f.e. mother and son.

Explain. You haven't actually said anything here.
LxGoodies
I've the impression believers tend to monopolize the notion of "spirituality". There may be more to it..

Ankhanu wrote:
Without defining the word, you could just as easily use orange to describe this.
How do you know that using the word spiritual to describe this nebulous idea will describe the same thing to your audience?

Allow me an attempt to define it. It seems to me, that "spirituality" is often characterized by believers as some arousing intense feeling of self-recognition regarding the immortal soul, afterlife etc.. Positive proof, affirmation of the belief. In the moment of "spirituality", the believer meets his/her soul, saint, Mary, Buddha, a deceased beloved person, etc. Sometimes the spiritual world is regarded as nearby and one is eager to communicate with it. In the Dutch language, this is the difference between spiritism and spiritual.

Non-believers (like me) find such moments of self-recognition when e.g. political ideals can be shared with many people, like during a demonstration or a political speech. This can be an intense moment of self-recognition too.
BigGeek
Here is the definition from Miriam Webster dictionary site!
Simple Definition of spiritual
: of or relating to a person's spirit
: of or relating to religion or religious beliefs
: having similar values and ideas : related or joined in spirit

Full Definition of spiritual

1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs>b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3 : concerned with religious values
4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

They sure do use spiritualism in their definition as well as spirit!

Here is my take on the difference:

The idea is that there is a all encompassing force or energy that fills the Universe and gives life to all sentient beings. This force or energy field is all knowing, ever present, and all powerful and is devoid of any sort of belief system, including religious beliefs. Things that relate to this force, or seem to come from it are what people refer to as spiritual as opposed to religious. Realization of the force and our place in it - is a product of self reflection and self reflection is not necessarily a religious pursuit, it is a personal one.

A personal experience where one realizes their connection to all things, and their place in the universe, and how life fits together is a interpersonal experience, so rather than refer to these sorts of experiences as religious people refer to them as spiritual.

Going to church and praying for hours and realizing that Jesus is your savior would be considered a religious experience, sitting on a mountain top and meditating and having wild animals come up close, and feeling the earth and the universe would be considered a spiritual experience.

That is my honest guess at what people mean when they are talking about spiritual vs. religious!

Again it is a guess - I'm using the SWAG method here - Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess Very Happy
loveandormoney
Relax a little bit and then we can talk about spiritual healing. Or I ll come back later, when the mood turned to listening. Enjoy Your sunday and use the day for spiritual experiences.
spinout
The world of the soul...
The common understanding in Sweden, I suppose, is that we have a soul/spirit the surrounds the body. And any information coming or going from the world of the soul is spirituality.
The general idea is that this world of the soul is different to this one. I do believe we think it has another frequency-spectrum to it, a faster one.
Ankhanu

LxGoodies wrote:
I've the impression believers tend to monopolize the notion of "spirituality". There may be more to it..

Not necessarily. The term is often used by the non-religious as a way of distinguishing themselves from the religious, and is used by some atheists as well.
LxGoodies wrote:
Allow me an attempt to define it. It seems to me, that "spirituality" is often characterized by believers as some arousing intense feeling of self-recognition regarding the immortal soul, afterlife etc.. Positive proof, affirmation of the belief. In the moment of "spirituality", the believer meets his/her soul, saint, Mary, Buddha, a deceased beloved person, etc. Sometimes the spiritual world is regarded as nearby and one is eager to communicate with it. In the Dutch language, this is the difference between spiritism and spiritual.
Non-believers (like me) find such moments of self-recognition when e.g. political ideals can be shared with many people, like during a demonstration or a political speech. This can be an intense moment of self-recognition too.

This is an interesting approach to the question, perhaps the most interesting posed so far. Describing moments of feelings of self-recognition. The additional baggage of actual souls and spirits is an add-on to the base concept, clouding it and adding confusion. Self-recognition implies introspection, perhaps a sense of interconnectedness... though perhaps I am reading into the idea something that I want to see. What do you think?
BigGeek wrote:
They sure do use spiritualism in their definition as well as spirit!

Yeah, funny that, eh? Wink
BigGeek wrote:
Realization of the force and our place in it - is a product of self reflection and self reflection is not necessarily a religious pursuit, it is a personal one.
A personal experience where one realizes their connection to all things, and their place in the universe, and how life fits together is a interpersonal experience, so rather than refer to these sorts of experiences as religious people refer to them as spiritual.

The whole force concept is still something of a stumbling block, and falls into the same issues of defining spirit. Aside from that, this seems to align with LxGoodies' tack.
spinout wrote:
The world of the soul...
The common understanding in Sweden, I suppose, is that we have a soul/spirit the surrounds the body. And any information coming or going from the world of the soul is spirituality.
The general idea is that this world of the soul is different to this one. I do believe we think it has another frequency-spectrum to it, a faster one.

See, you're just opening a bigger can of worms with this sort of explanation; using undefined terms to define an undefined term. This sort of explanation assumes an uniform understanding of what a soul or spirit is, which we don't have. It also assumes that this soul or spirit (world) is something that exists, which has never been demonstrated.
How does a frequency spectrum apply to this concept? What does it mean?
loveandormoney wrote:
Relax a little bit and then we can talk about spiritual healing. Or I ll come back later, when the mood turned to listening.

I'm completely relaxed and listening. The fact that I'm listening may be a part of the problem for you Wink
BigGeek
BigGeek wrote:
They sure do use spiritualism in their definition as well as spirit!


Ankhanu wrote:
​Yeah, funny that, eh? ;


I thought that using a word such as spirit to define spiritual was against the rules of defining something! That you had to use words that completely separate from the original word being defined to define it.

I think the problem with defining spiritual is that it is an abstract concept. Not a fully defined one - spirit is an abstract concept like "the force". It's existence can be inferred but never really defined.

For instance a radio wave cannot be seen, however we know they can be transmitted, measured, and received and contain information in the form of data that can be heard, seen, or measured in some way.

Taking this a step further a person can say that there is an unseen energy in the universe that engulfs all things and although it cannot be seen, it can be felt and it has data or information contained in it. It is much like a radio wave it cannot be seen. However unlike a radio wave it cannot be measured or received by any one device!

I can see how the idea of a force or a spirit can be described using analogies to known and measurable phenomenon, yet unseen (like radio waves), but how this then takes the leap to a force that is all knowing, all present, and all powerful is a little beyond my reasoning skills. The idea of the spirit or force takes a leap of faith that I am not willing to take.

Moving past the idea of a spirit or a force into spiritualism - where spiritualism is again something equally abstract and difficult to pin down with a definition like the idea of a force or spirit.

If you believe that spiritualism is your connection to a force or energy called spirit, and you attempt to define that concept with interpersonal experiences - like dreams, out of the body experiences and inner realizations and feelings, you are then stuck in the same spiritual conundrum as any person before you. You end up taking in circles and using illogical references to describe something that is impossible to define.

I honestly believe this is why definitions of spiritualism, spirit, and the like are so illogical, abstract, and impossible to pin down. Because we are trying to define something that cannot be defined clearly or is too abstract to define.

Next question is do you believe in such non-sense? But we can leave that for better educated more powerful people that myself Wink
spinout
If speeking of spirituality, then I lay into this what the common interpretation is here. So no need of any defining since every culture has its own definition. Valhall (not Valhalla as said in the movies) is the term we used for the spirit world, well no need for a definition since we might see it when we pass (or that will be the definition to be funny), but good story enough to pass as a marvel movie.
The frequency idea is a common modern variant of how the spirit world is connected. The meaning I suppose would be that the spirit world is "around" this universe. It would be rather backwards if it only could exist in someones pocket, it better be that the universe is in someones pocket in the spirit world. Smile
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
If speeking of spirituality, then I lay into this what the common interpretation is here. So no need of any defining since every culture has its own definition.

But this is the entire point of this thread.
There doesn't really seem to be a common interpretation, any given individual may be using the word to mean something different, and we can't know without context and discussion. Is this a useful word, or is it just namby-pamby handwavium, like "quantum fluctuation", or "energy", or "vibration" when discussing just about anything that isn't clearly defined physics?

The point is to potentially nail down what might be at the core of the term, or determine that it doesn't even have one.
spinout
Clearly defined physics ?? haha that is worth nothing. That is just a big feud, just like any religion Smile

Well, so if the spirit is speaked about is many cultures, and in whatever form it might be for that culture... Then some people always wonders if animals have a spirit like a human!!? So they take a pet lika a cat and stare it intensely in the eyes... hehe and what ever the animal responses (pissed off or wondering if it can get some food by looking cute...) the conclusion is that it has a spirit.

So the core might be that we can see the spirit in the animals too, all over the place, but must not know the true form. Reason, well some greek said (i think) that this is just a shadow world, and if the curtain is put away the world disappears.
LxGoodies
Ankhanu wrote:

LxGoodies wrote:
I've the impression believers tend to monopolize the notion of "spirituality". There may be more to it..

Not necessarily. The term is often used by the non-religious as a way of distinguishing themselves from the religious, and is used by some atheists as well.
LxGoodies wrote:
Allow me an attempt to define it. It seems to me, that "spirituality" is often characterized by believers as some arousing intense feeling of self-recognition regarding the immortal soul, afterlife etc.. Positive proof, affirmation of the belief. In the moment of "spirituality", the believer meets his/her soul, saint, Mary, Buddha, a deceased beloved person, etc. Sometimes the spiritual world is regarded as nearby and one is eager to communicate with it. In the Dutch language, this is the difference between spiritism and spiritual.
Non-believers (like me) find such moments of self-recognition when e.g. political ideals can be shared with many people, like during a demonstration or a political speech. This can be an intense moment of self-recognition too.

This is an interesting approach to the question, perhaps the most interesting posed so far. Describing moments of feelings of self-recognition. The additional baggage of actual souls and spirits is an add-on to the base concept, clouding it and adding confusion. Self-recognition implies introspection, perhaps a sense of interconnectedness... though perhaps I am reading into the idea something that I want to see. What do you think?

Recognition implies introspection yes.. interconnection (being near with others) is not always needed for my spiritual experience. Even when listening to the radio late at night in my bed, I tend to cry when I hear Martin Luther King's speech about his dream. For me that is "spiritual" in a sense I share that dream, I personally connect to it and feel emotion with the words "I have a dream" and making the better world present in that dream.
loveandormoney
Recognition is the way where spiritual people find love.
Ankhanu
LxGoodies wrote:
Recognition implies introspection yes.. interconnection (being near with others) is not always needed for my spiritual experience. Even when listening to the radio late at night in my bed, I tend to cry when I hear Martin Luther King's speech about his dream. For me that is "spiritual" in a sense I share that dream, I personally connect to it and feel emotion with the words "I have a dream" and making the better world present in that dream.

Sorry, right, my use of interconnectedness there was not limited to the interpersonal human context, but a broader sense; a connection or sense of place within one's surroundings, whether that be people, or out to the scope of the universe... perhaps a oneness?

spinout wrote:
Clearly defined physics ?? haha that is worth nothing. That is just a big feud, just like any religion Smile

I'd disagree, but the point was concerning word definitions, not interpretations of results. Those terms have specific meanings in sciences. While there may be disagreements on interpretation of information/data/phenomena, there's a fairly strong distinction between those disagreements and those within or among religions. To suggest that physics is like a religion demonstrates a poor understanding of how scientific understanding and consensus works... but, that's not the topic.

spinout wrote:
Well, so if the spirit is speaked about is many cultures, and in whatever form it might be for that culture... Then some people always wonders if animals have a spirit like a human!!? So they take a pet lika a cat and stare it intensely in the eyes... hehe and what ever the animal responses (pissed off or wondering if it can get some food by looking cute...) the conclusion is that it has a spirit.
So the core might be that we can see the spirit in the animals too, all over the place, but must not know the true form.

Non-seqiutur.

spinout wrote:
... Reason, well some greek said (i think) that this is just a shadow world, and if the curtain is put away the world disappears.

Any evidence for this? Lots of people, Greek or otherwise, have said many, many things Razz

loveandormoney wrote:
Recognition is the way where spiritual people find love.

Only spiritual people?
LxGoodies
Ankhanu wrote:
a connection or sense of place within one's surroundings, whether that be people, or out to the scope of the universe... perhaps a oneness?

YES.. oneness.. so concentrated as ONE thing, could also be some genious idea or concept. Like being able to make ONE synthesis of it all: the formula "e=mc2" must have been a revelation experience for Einstein, when he found the formula. It is so short.. a oneness in de literary sense. Modern physics regards finding the theory of everything as the ultimate goal. Unification.

Watching gravity waves actually appear.. that may have been a spiritual experience for hundreds of people involved in the project, for 30+ years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEPIwEJmZyE

There's not a trace of "religion" in that press conference, it is hard science. But when you look at these inspired people in there, how happy they were to be there, in the right moment to witness the event of two black holes colliding.. being able to actually find the gravity waves, proove the genious idea behind it.. imho requiring a common spirit to go forward, work so long for many years, to reach a single goal.
spinout
That famous Greek, I remembered that I heard this in school. It was Platon, the ancient greek who lived 400 years bc.
He had the Idea that we live in a shadow world.
Evidence? That would be impossible. hm, I suppose he pointed at the state when you think that the world isn't correct. That it is more to it than just what the eye see.

"The religion of physics" - Maybe a poor understanding, but every time I dive into it the outcome is the same. It is just like freemason club vs another freemason club vs another freemason club. The feud that never ends and all is wrong Smile
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
That famous Greek, I remembered that I heard this in school. It was Platon, the ancient greek who lived 400 years bc.
He had the Idea that we live in a shadow world.

Evidence? That would be impossible. hm, I suppose he pointed at the state when you think that the world isn't correct. That it is more to it than just what the eye see.

Aaaah, ok, the Allegory of the Cave. I didn't connect that to what you had said, thanks for the clarification.

I think I see what you're getting towards there, but I'm not entirely sure how it applies to the term having, or gaining, an universal interpretation... if anything I suppose it highlights how the word means different things to different people based upon their personal contexts... meaning that a given observer hearing/reading the word won't necessarily have the same understanding of what the word means as the user intends.
spinout
No not directly the allegory of the cave metafor but the following idea he presented afterwards, this this is just a semi-world, a place for role playing.

Hehe, I believe spirituality is quite different in different cultures; for the west world it is a trick to keep people in control (church life) and for the old east it was just a weakness (for the weak people).
loveandormoney
Is that science
what are You talking about?
Which books do You use?
LxGoodies
spinout wrote:
That famous Greek, I remembered that I heard this in school. It was Platon, the ancient greek who lived 400 years bc.
He had the Idea that we live in a shadow world.
Evidence? That would be impossible. hm, I suppose he pointed at the state when you think that the world isn't correct. That it is more to it than just what the eye see.

"The religion of physics" - Maybe a poor understanding, but every time I dive into it the outcome is the same. It is just like freemason club vs another freemason club vs another freemason club. The feud that never ends and all is wrong Smile

Of course the scientist sees only shadows. The physicist knows this. He knows he is interpreting, in the context of the current paradigm: all the work physics has done since the 19th c. His world is percieved through measuring instruments that provide data. The interpretation of the data relies on knowledge already developed.

Example: the 2D trace of a charged particle bending in a magnetic field. This is only indirect data, it does not provide the 3D path. It relies on previous scientific insights.. theory and math are needed to reconstruct the actual 3D path of the particle. Platon's shadow is used to reconstruct the complete, actual phenomenon.

If someone would proove Einstein wrong.. there were no gravity waves. Now, the scientist has to start from scratch. What do these measurements mean, when Einstein is wrong.. the shadow becomes unsharp.. or fades out.

Difference between science and religion: science does not pretend to be true. Science pretends to learn. When knowledge is proven wrong, we have to learn something else. Nothing is holy.
loveandormoney
Ankhanu wrote:
I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual.
I had a spiritual experience, it was incredible.

Spiritual may be one of the most vaccuous, useless terms used when discussing topics concerning religion or belief. It's ill-defined and nebulous, and there's no real way to determine its definition without explanation, and few have any idea how to explain or define what they mean when they use it... so let's try!

Spiritual, what the hell does it mean? What do you mean when you use it? Why do you use it, or why don't you? Why would you describe something as being spiritual?
I urge you to really get down to its elemental essence... yeah, yeah, of or related to the spirit... great, what does that mean? What is the spirit?


The most easy explanation is spiritual=love

So You can live with money or spiritual in love. Its Your life.
Ankhanu
That's way too simplistic, and with obvious counters to hold any water. Can you refine that any?
loveandormoney
Jesus is spiritual. Jesus is love. Is this wrong nowadays? Did Jesus lose his spiritual power?
Ankhanu
loveandormoney wrote:
Jesus is spiritual. Jesus is love. Is this wrong nowadays? Did Jesus lose his spiritual power?

Does this apply to the spiritual feelings that an Animist might have? What about a Muslim? Jain? Taoist? Buddhist? Atheist?
loveandormoney
Buddhist?

Lets talk about Buddism?
loveandormoney
Quote:

Of course the scientist sees only shadows.


Yes.
The thing is doing.
So lets talk about spiritual living in a Buddhist monastery.
Or visit it.
Ankhanu
I suggest re-reading the first post to understand the context and nature of the discussion; you seem to be missing it.
loveandormoney
How about music? Is music and literature spiritual or not. Or is Bob Dylan spiritual and others authors write without spirit?
Out of Your view.
Ankhanu
Some people definitely describe their experiences with particular pieces, or moments listening to music as spiritual, sure.

The question, however, remains... what is spiritual? What is the definition of the word? IS there are generally accepted and applicable definition of the word, or are we destined to never really know what another speaker is actually meaning when they use it?
loveandormoney
Quote:

is spiritual?


How about healing. Is healing spiritual?

Did You say music is spiritual or is some music spiritual?
Ankhanu
Please, go back and read the first page of the thread, you're missing the point completely.
nam_siddharth
May be following religious teachings but ignoring the God part of religion.
loveandormoney
Is is good to live without good. Is spiritual to create a own style of life like San Francisco in 1,968?
Is Religion not spiritual?
BigGeek
loveandormoney wrote:
Is Religion not spiritual?


The whole point of this thread is to discuss the differences between spiritual and religion. Short answer in my opinion is NO!

Religion is a doctrine set forth by people that wrote it down in the form of a sacred book. Religion typically has people that preach the doctrine, and are considered an authority or in charge of carrying on the beliefs and preaching them to the followers - in some cases these people are considered anointed, appointed, or worth of the position as a person of God, and it is assumed that they have powers that allow them to hold this position of power over the average follower. In some cases they believe that their doctrine should be flowed to the letter of the law, and any form of thinking that conflicts with their doctrine is labeled bad, evil, or wrong.

Spirituality on the other hand is typically devoid of a doctrine, and involves inner exploration and experiences that cause the people that have had them to doubt what we know as reality and believe that there is something beyond physical life.

At least that is my take on the difference between the two!
Ankhanu
BigGeek wrote:
loveandormoney wrote:
Is Religion not spiritual?


The whole point of this thread is to discuss the differences between spiritual and religion.

It's an embedded component, but it's not the whole point. The point is that people seem to mean very different things when using the word spiritual to describe experiences and feelings, and it can potentially mean so many disparate ideas as to be functionally useless for communicating whatever idea it is that they're attempting to communicate. The point is to try and see if there is a way to use the word where it has a coherent, consistent meaning in these sorts of discussions.... or is it doomed to be nebulous and a point of likely miscommunication?

BigGeek wrote:
...
Spirituality on the other hand is typically devoid of a doctrine, and involves inner exploration and experiences that cause the people that have had them to doubt what we know as reality and believe that there is something beyond physical life.

At least that is my take on the difference between the two!

To me this doesn't quite work. I mean, you can see the strongly doctrinal use the term spiritual to describe their experiences and stances all the time in relation to their doctrines...
loveandormoney
Quote:

The whole point of this thread is to discuss the differences between spiritual and religion


Yes.
So I ll ask You : Is there spirit in Buddism because its no religion and there is no god.

Budda is not a god.

How do You talk with Buddism people about that.
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