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I am a Democrat and I will never vote for Hillary Clinton.





handfleisch
Just sayin'
deanhills
Who is Hillary Clinton? Razz

Just asking ... Angel
Ankhanu
That's a bold political statement Razz

Any reason why, or are ya just trollin'?
deanhills
I just Googled it. There's a serious Facebook page Democrats against Hillary Clinton in 2016 that speaks for itself.
Quote:
We are a community of citizens who think that the Democratic Party can and must have a better nominee than Hillary Clinton for President in 2016.


The Facebook page has a Twitter link as well:
https://twitter.com/PrgrssveDem2016
Ankhanu
Oh, I know a lot of people are against her... though I don't imagine most are due to policy reasons. Yes, I am making a general accusation of sexism, though I recognize that some certainly genuinely disagree with her politics.
deanhills
Ankhanu wrote:
Oh, I know a lot of people are against her... though I don't imagine most are due to policy reasons. Yes, I am making a general accusation of sexism, though I recognize that some certainly genuinely disagree with her politics.
When I was Googling the subject earlier on that was exactly the main "defense"/counter-argument - sexism. However that could create a real problem for her. Is she standing for President as a woman, or as the best candidate for the job regardless of her sex?

A greater problem I see however is that for her to be successful she should at least be well supported by her own Party. I don't see much evidence of that. And not only because of her sex. It would seem that her record as Secretary of State has enough holes in it to make her vulnerable for plenty of criticism. On the other hand she at least comes with four years hands on experience as Secretary of State and was actively involved in quite a number of serious diplomatic wheelings and dealings. Obama had no such experience when he took office.
Da Rossa
There is something very unpleasant about Hillary. The United States is a civilized country, so people tend to uprise against arbitrary taxation. This doesn't happen here in Brazil; the government just soaks you; the average worker labours for ~150 days in a year just to pay taxes.

Then I heard Hillary advocates for "regular taxes" in northern countries, including the US itself, but for some reason I can't remember now she was favourable of higher rates in third-world countries, like mine.

F*** off Hillary!
coolclay
Wow, Handfleisch such a bold statement from you. I mean I totally agree that this is probably the single most worst decision the Dems. could probably make but what is your reasoning? She already lost once, what makes her think she can do better by running again. I mean at least Romney got the point the first time.
Da Rossa
Ok, so tell me why exactly is she such a poor choice for those ones who just said "just sayin'" or "totally agree".

I don't like her because of this taxation-in-third-world-countries thing.
handfleisch
Ankhanu wrote:
That's a bold political statement :P

Any reason why, or are ya just trollin'?


First of all, she was all for the Iraq War. That is an instant NO.
Second, she is flaky as hell and I think there is something mentally unstable about her. Look at this video--I think only a psycho talks this way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlz3-OzcExI
Insanity
I mean really though, what are the alternatives? There aren't that many other good alternatives. She has the experience and she's done a good job in the past jobs.
Bikerman
Speaking as an outsider (and hopefully not a sexist) I find it depressing that the US political system is so tribal and limited. It seems likely that Bush vs Clinton will be the choice yet again. Is this really the best that the supposed leader of the democratic world can do?
deanhills
I certainly hope it won't be Bush. Rand Paul is more to my liking. But the face of Rand Paul probably wouldn't make much of a difference: different name, same dilemma. The US political system has been tribal and limited for a long while though. Probably because the leaders that are chosen aren't the real power in politics, but the tycoons who sponsor their campaigns. They've shown themselves capable of getting rid of the candidates they don't like with smear campaigns through the media they own. For me the system is completely greedy and corrupt and has grown into an oligarchy where the country is effectively run by a few wealthy tycoons. The candidates themselves need to be very wealthy in order to afford the campaign. If they are not super wealthy in their own right, it makes sense that they would need to depend on those who are and who are then able to control them.

http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf



BigGeek
Bikerman wrote:
Speaking as an outsider (and hopefully not a sexist) I find it depressing that the US political system is so tribal and limited. It seems likely that Bush vs Clinton will be the choice yet again. Is this really the best that the supposed leader of the democratic world can do?


You find it depressing - If you lived here you would find it down right insane - I call it drinking the Kool Aid - people have no idea of what is really going on they just vote on party lines - plus they are filled with hate and contempt for the opposite party - the slander and bigotry and ignorance from one party to the other is horrendous. Even if a republican has a good idea the democrats will hate and slander them - and vice versa - both parties are convinced that the other is destroying the country and none of them can see how the refusal to actually research an issue and vote according to common sense rather than along party lines is really what is destroying our country - that and the special interests.

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised when the media can't report anything on important issues in Washington - but they can tell you all about Bruce/Caitlyn Shocked Crying or Very sad Rolling Eyes
handfleisch
BigGeek wrote:
- both parties are convinced that the other is destroying the country


While it's true many of the problems in the US are bipartisan, in other ways there is no comparison between the two parties on a national level. Eight years of Bush brought insane, destructive, illegal war(s) and a near-collapse of the economy. Compared to that, Obama is doing a great job.

The GOP has not learned anything from the Bush years and in fact has gotten worse. Look at their candidates for prez -- loons like Trump and Cruz and Huckabee. People who promote Creationism and want it taught in schools! The Dems don't have anyone remotely as loony on the national level, while for the GOP, Trump is currently in 2nd place!

So get real about this false equivalency between the parties.
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