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The best of capitalism is when you become owner of a man.





peacelove
The aim to capitalisme is to have capital, nothing say you must be social or human. So if you buy a man you are a capitalist.

Hitler was a capitalist.
jajarvin
peacelove wrote:
Hitler was a capitalist.


I own my car. So I am a capitalist. Wink
catscratches
I own a carpet so I'm a carpitalist.
coolclay
And is there anything inherently wrong with capitalism? I think working hard to make your life and those around you better and more enjoyable to be a great thing. Capitalism is similar to communism in the way that in it's purest theoretical form it is a great idea. However humans being the flawed and sinful creatures that we are always end up bastardizing ideals and taking advantage of other humans and the Earth.
BigGeek
I agree capitalism like communism is a great idea "IN THEORY" however in reality it is a different story. The biggest problem with capitalism in MY OPINION is that the people in charge have no moral obligation to anything other than money. The lack of morality for any thing other than the bottom line justifies misuse of power, mistreatment and taking advantage of workers, polluting the environment and polluting and poisoning local populations, endangering customers, and so on.

The other problem as I see it is large corporations and the stock holders and board of directors quest for short term massive profits on an on going basis. The desire to fulfill this demand leads to poor decisions that sacrifice long term growth and profits. For over a decade we watched as CEO's unable to actually grow a company made short term decisions to increase the bottom line by saving on labor costs, and sending every job they could over seas for cheaper labor. Cheaper labor does not grow your market share, or increase sales into other markets, is simply reduces labor costs in an effort to increase the bottom line in the sort term.

I could go on about the problems but yeah, the biggest problem with capitalism is the complete lack of social responsibility and moral obligation to customers, workers, and communities, and the willingness to sacrifice the well being of others for short term profits.

AND yes I know that large corporations give to charities and, and put on community events to improve their community relationships, but in MY OPINION that is just white wash, like the commercials where WALMART is investing 287 billion in US Jobs.....jeez that's nice, since over the decade prior to that they invested close to a trillion dollars in foreign economies in an effort to increase profits and send every job possible over seas to China and other countries. Geez, thanks!! I guess we should all be grateful to them for this half hearted late effort to help the unemployment problem in the country that provides the largest part of their profits?

Also as an old guy I am so sick and tired of hearing the conservative argument that we have to give huge incomes and tax breaks to the wealthy because they are the ones to invest in the economy and create jobs....remember the "Trickle Down Theory".

For 12 years throughout the 80's and first 2 years of the 90's we gave them those breaks and cut their taxes. Their response was to ship the money off shore and invest in foreign countries and their economies and then after a decade of doing so, had created the infrastructure overseas to hemorrhage hundreds of thousand of jobs every month off shore during Bush juniors terms in office.

Yeah they sure invested to create jobs, just no in the country that gave them the massive income, and the tax breaks.

I also get a kick out of the "we need less government and regulations" argument....why so we can go back to the 1900's and work in sweat shops for a buck a day?

We need less government so they can completely exploit their workers, the environment, and surrounding communities with no ramifications!!

Honestly, if these large companies and their wealthy owners had shown some sort of morality, and social responsibility then there would be no need for regulations, it is their past track record and piss poor selfish behavior that has led to the lawsuits and regulations in the first place!!!
coolclay
Great post BigGeek I agree with most of it. My biggest complaint is that generation after generation there is a growing disparity as huge pockets of wealth continue to perpetuate themselves. Those with rich parents typically inherit the wealth and have a much easier time with life in general.

While I agree somewhat with the "pull up your own bootstraps" crowd in reality it is substantially harder (I know from personal experience) for someone from a lower income family to be successful in life. While its totally possible to go from beggar to riches by working hard it is many orders of magnitude more difficult to do so.

We really need to level the income disparity, pay folks a living wage, and share the hard work and the bulk of the earned capital.

If I had inherited a $500,000 I wouldn't even have to work and could simply live on the interest every year. Would I still work? Yes of course but not to earn the almighty dollar I would do whatever I could to make the world a better place. The funny thing is I do that anyway!
BigGeek
coolclay wrote:
If I had inherited a $500,000 I wouldn't even have to work and could simply live on the interest every year. Would I still work? Yes of course but not to earn the almighty dollar I would do whatever I could to make the world a better place. The funny thing is I do that anyway!


Isn't that the truth, I think most people given the freedom from a higher wage would - like you and me no longer work their present job, but would choose to do something different and more rewarding. I also think like you as well - in that I would work to make the world a better place for everyone. I honestly feel that the majority of people feel the same way, unfortunately the uber wealthy do not.

Have you ever read about the Walton family, the inheritors of the Walmart fortune and business?

Horrifying behavior, and incredible bigots toward any lower class income people.

Although I have to disagree on the harder to make millions now than in the past. While I agree that in traditional businesses and services it is much more difficult than past decades I think that affiliate and multilevel marketing on the internet has made it easier to earn big incomes, you just have to have a more technical and internet marketing expertise to do so. IMHO Very Happy
Da Rossa
Have you ever realised that capitalism, in contrast with communism and socialism, happened naturally in history of western civilisation? There was no war or revolution for the capitalism itself. Ok, people could have died because of the capitalist mentality, which is not perfect, but what is the alternative? If someone has a better idea, then bring it!
kaysch
Da Rossa wrote:
Have you ever realised that capitalism, in contrast with communism and socialism, happened naturally in history of western civilisation? There was no war or revolution for the capitalism itself.

I don't agree. All the East European countries had their revolutions because they couldn't stand communism anymore, especially because of the lack of increase in wealth. And the socialist revolutions happened because people were fed up with the injust disparity of wealth.

BigGeek wrote:
The lack of morality for any thing other than the bottom line justifies misuse of power, mistreatment and taking advantage of workers, polluting the environment and polluting and poisoning local populations, endangering customers, and so on.

All of that also existed in communism, too. There was misuse of power and a lot of pollution and poisoning. Plus limitation of individual freedom and a lack of incentive to invest and be progressive. Workers were not taken advantage of, but the glorification of workers led to the fact that waitresses felt superior to their customers instead of serving them their dinners with a smile.

I struggled a lot with this question when I was young, but over the years I have come to the conclusion that all in all socialism is no better than capitalism, on the contrary.

I think the solution to this is to find a sound balance between generation and distribution of wealth. (West) Germany has had a 50-year old tradition of mixing capitalism and communism. It is called social market economy and was introduced by Prime Minister Ludwig Erhard in the 1960s. It involves a progressive income tax and substantial co-management rights by workers councils. Before there are substantial strikes unions and employees' associations usually come to an agreement about tarriff increases. In my mind this model has been pretty successful. There is an income disparity here, but it is lower than in many other industrialised countries. Especially the Scandinavian countries do better with regards to income disparity.

I think the main point about a society - no matter which ideology the government follows - is modesty. For example what I love about my home town is that there are few people openly displaying their wealth, and Hamburg is a very wealthy town. You just don't see many peoply driving Ferraris over here, although I guess many people could afford them. There has been a long tradition of donations over here, and in general I think social tensions are low.
lightworker88
Neither capitalism or communism are in and of themselves bad. "Buying a man" is bad in and of itself. (assuming this refers to slavery as opposed to buying legitimate services)
deanhills
lightworker88 wrote:
Neither capitalism or communism are in and of themselves bad. "Buying a man" is bad in and of itself. (assuming this refers to slavery as opposed to buying legitimate services)
Depending on whether the person consents to be bought. As in a way all of us are slaves. We give X time and get X wage. Wage slaves.

Our greater sin is following the herd mentality whether it is capitalism or communism and allowing others to make our choices for us. Then moan about having been exploited, when we obviously had a choice in the matter. Submitting to exploitation is probably the easy way out. Or being schooled or trained in a certain mentality where those who are shrewd gets those who are not that shrewd locked into the wage treadmill to make all the money for them.
Da Rossa
Communism is something that doesn't work neither in theory nor in practice. Capitalism works both ways.

Quote:
I don't agree. All the East European countries had their revolutions because they couldn't stand communism anymore, especially because of the lack of increase in wealth. And the socialist revolutions happened because people were fed up with the injust disparity of wealth.


1- What period are you talking about?
2- So you say the feeling of disparity justifies the overthrow like Russia in 1917?
3- Are you saying or implying they worked by the end of the 20th century?
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